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bludvlman
10-12-2008, 11:19 PM
I was thinking about this, do you guys believe Plumlee will get a lot of playing time this season just do to the fact that his brother is coming next year and is a big time recruit for us? I think K plays for the most part who he thinks the best player is but will there be any politics behind Plumlee's PT this year?

SilkyJ
10-12-2008, 11:34 PM
I was thinking about this, do you guys believe Plumlee will get a lot of playing time this season just do to the fact that his brother is coming next year and is a big time recruit for us? I think K plays for the most part who he thinks the best player is but will there be any politics behind Plumlee's PT this year?

absolutely zero politics involved in Plumlee's or anyone's PT.

Further, Mason has already committed to Duke, so its not like we're courting him and trying to entice him or whatever.

K would never let politics have any influence on who to play. His goal is to win, he plays whoever will help us win.

BlueintheFace
10-12-2008, 11:43 PM
absolutely zero politics involved in Plumlee's or anyone's PT.

Further, Mason has already committed to Duke, so its not like we're courting him and trying to entice him or whatever.

K would never let politics have any influence on who to play. His goal is to win, he plays whoever will help us win.

Second

bludvlman
10-12-2008, 11:44 PM
I dont necessarly believe that K will playing politics with Plumlee I was just throwing this out there for the sake of conversation about it.

SilkyJ
10-12-2008, 11:55 PM
I dont necessarly believe that K will playing politics with Plumlee I was just throwing this out there for the sake of conversation about it.

OK. Not sure why you would think its a possibility or even worth a discussion. I mean I could say "Do you guys think Nolan wants to transfer to UNC after this year" just so we would have something to talk about but what in the world would make me think Nolan wants to transfer to UNC?

quickgtp
10-12-2008, 11:56 PM
I agree that there are no politics in this as well. I will also say that Miles will probably play 0-4 minutes a game. IMO I do not think he will be ready for anything more than that.....

Hey, if I am wrong, then maybe we have an answer to our post prayers!

BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 12:03 AM
I agree that there are no politics in this as well. I will also say that Miles will probably play 0-4 minutes a game. IMO I do not think he will be ready for anything more than that.....

Hey, if I am wrong, then maybe we have an answer to our post prayers!

I agree. My guess is that it really is going to be all about the off-seasons for Miles. Hit those weights baby!

... then again, I haven't seen him play for a single minute in Duke Blue so it's all speculation obviously.

beltwayBD
10-13-2008, 12:04 AM
I was thinking about this, do you guys believe Plumlee will get a lot of playing time this season just do to the fact that his brother is coming next year and is a big time recruit for us? I think K plays for the most part who he thinks the best player is but will there be any politics behind Plumlee's PT this year?

I agree w/ the other posters about politics - Coach K doesn't need to persuade anyone, except through the W-L column. Nevertheless, I will be very interested to see who will step up to take some heat off of Singler in the frontcourt. Will Zoubek stop traveling and fouling so frequently? Will Thomas really come into his own this year? Or will Plumlee or Czyz demonstrate some early potential that gets them some serious minutes in the paint?

All I know is that I can't wait to find out! In HD in my living, for the first time this year. :)

Edouble
10-13-2008, 12:41 AM
OK. Not sure why you would think its a possibility or even worth a discussion. I mean I could say "Do you guys think Nolan wants to transfer to UNC after this year" just so we would have something to talk about but what in the world would make me think Nolan wants to transfer to UNC?

When did you first hear that Nolan is transferring to UNC?

Bob Green
10-13-2008, 12:46 AM
Will Zoubek stop traveling and fouling so frequently?

This is an inaccurate criticism of Zoubek. He corrected the traveling problem between his freshman and sophomore seasons. As a sophomore, Zoubek played more minutes but turned the ball over less. He recorded 37 TOs as a freshman and 20 as a sophomore.

Zoubek hasn't had a problem will fouls. That is an Urban Legend. He averaged 1.2 fouls per game as a freshman and 1.7 fouls per game as a sophomore.

Brian Zoubek's sophomore season was derailed by injuries. He should be commended for displaying the intestinal fortitude to play hurt, not unjustly criticized for problems that do not exist.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31711

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 01:12 AM
Plumlee will play. In fact, there's a decent chance that he'll start as a frosh. It's beyond ridiculous to suggest that politics might factor into that decision.

nicktonyg22
10-13-2008, 02:14 AM
Jumbo,

Just out of curiousity and the fact that I hadn't heard anyone suggest that Plumlee could start this year, is there certain info that you have about Plumlee that the rest of us might not have? Compared to the comments from other posters who think he will be a non-factor, his ratings from recruiting experts and his performance in the summer league games, it seems like Plumlee would only see spot minutes.

Anyway, any specifics or insights you could let us know about in term of how Plumlee could help and how much he might play?

CameronCrazy'11
10-13-2008, 02:18 AM
Miles will get minutes if he can play defense. Thomas has not been able to guard big opposing centers. Czyz is big, but probably too short to guard a big 6'10" or 6'11" guy. Miles may be the 2nd best defender, after Zoubek, at the 5. If that's the case, and if he can pass well and fit in the offense, i could easily see 10 minutes a game for him.

Oriole Way
10-13-2008, 02:18 AM
Plumlee will play. In fact, there's a decent chance that he'll start as a frosh. It's beyond ridiculous to suggest that politics might factor into that decision.

That statement is very surprising to me. I'd also like to know why you think this is possible.

CameronCrazy'11
10-13-2008, 02:24 AM
That statement is very surprising to me. I'd also like to know why you think this is possible.

It's not that hard to imagine, considering that our fronctourt players have been less than stellar up to this point. But, he would have to be significantly better than advertised to earn a starting spot at some point this year. Not impossible, but not likely.

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 02:32 AM
That statement is very surprising to me. I'd also like to know why you think this is possible.

Ditto here. When he played against Singler and Czyz in the summer there were many reports -- mostly on TDD -- that both of them just abused Miles. It was pretty unanimous that he doesn't have the strength, physicality or confidence right now to be a significant contributor, though the potential is certainly there. If it's simply a matter of having a good idea at this point of where to position himself on the floor, I'm not persuaded. It's the job of the coaching staff to get the players with the best physical tools on the floor, consistent with good team chemistry.

ice-9
10-13-2008, 05:24 AM
Plumlee will play. In fact, there's a decent chance that he'll start as a frosh. It's beyond ridiculous to suggest that politics might factor into that decision.

I was just about to post a similar thing. I have never seen Miles play in person, but I've read that he's
- 6'10
- 230 pounds
- More athletic than Mason

As long as he can make lay-ups/put-backs and rebound, this kind of player should earn some minutes in our run-and-gun offense as a center. At the very least, he should provide significant back-up minutes to Zoubek who hasn't shown he can play big minutes. Committing to Zoubek and Miles at the 5 will also allow Singler, Thomas and Olek to play the 4, their natural positions and where they will be most effective.

So my money is that Miles will get significant minutes.

quickgtp
10-13-2008, 07:52 AM
Jumbo I think you need to lower your expectations for Miles. There is no way he will start as a freshman, barring a catastrophic string of injuries to those around him. I am not here to knock Miles, in fact, I think he will develop into a solid player DTR. It will take time though.

The only way I see him getting significant minutes is through injury OR foul trouble.

GopherBlue
10-13-2008, 08:42 AM
I was thinking about this, do you guys believe Plumlee will get a lot of playing time this season just do to the fact that his brother is coming next year and is a big time recruit for us? I think K plays for the most part who he thinks the best player is but will there be any politics behind Plumlee's PT this year?

Nope . . . . . . and nope.

But this news about Nolan to UNC deserves it's own thread.

Carlos
10-13-2008, 08:55 AM
Jumbo I think you need to lower your expectations for Miles. There is no way he will start as a freshman, barring a catastrophic string of injuries to those around him. I am not here to knock Miles, in fact, I think he will develop into a solid player DTR. It will take time though.

The only way I see him getting significant minutes is through injury OR foul trouble.

There's an enormous irony here - and I don't rule out the possibility that it's intentional.

When it comes to Czyz a large number of posters predict major minutes and some go so far as to forecast some pretty lofty averages for him. In this case Jumbo usually steps in and says something about having reasonable expectations.

Now Jumbo states there's a decent chance that Plumlee starts and someone tells him to lower his expectations.

BTW - I've also heard that Plumlee is looking very good and that there's a good chance he can see meaningful playing time this season. He's not going to pull out a SportsCenter highlight dunk like Olek, but he's also not going to get as lost in a structured defense or offense either.

MChambers
10-13-2008, 09:09 AM
While I don't have any sources at all, unlike Jumbo and Carlos, I've been thinking that Miles could earn some time.

He's big enough, at least in terms of height, to cover the other team's tallest player. (Thomas, McClure, and Czyz are all a little undersized for that role. Not to say they can't do it, but we lose some shot blocking and rebounding with them in the game.)

Miles is also more mobile than Zoubek, making him likely to be better at the defensive rotations required in Duke's man-to-man.

Wander
10-13-2008, 09:16 AM
I'm right on the Plumlee bandwagon with Jumbo and have been for quite a while. There's room any 6-10 guy to earn time on this team, and when he's a guy who positions himself well and runs the floor well, he very well might be a better choice to play than Zoubek. If I thought he was more ready physically I'd be confident about him starting. As it stands, I don't think he'll start but he'll be in the meaningful rotation.

BD80
10-13-2008, 09:34 AM
Idiotic thread. Completely counterproductive. It leads to criticism of Duke players and uneducated speculation.

How does this "discussion" contribute to the Duke Basketball community?

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 09:41 AM
I shouldn't comment on Miles' potential for playing time this year because I haven't seen him play. The reports from this summer were that he was getting overmatched a lot, particularly against Singler and Czyz, but I don't buy into anything I haven't seen with my own two eyes.

I have an image in my head of a fluid, non-explosive player, but that's really based on footage of his brother. Yes, by all means let's keep an open mind about the potential of a 6-10 guy who can get up, but more softness in the middle is not what the doctor ordered for this team, which is clearly going to make an NC run. If Miles plays I want him to go out there strong and aggressive. I suspect he may be a year in the weight room away, but good on him if he proves me wrong.

bludvlman
10-13-2008, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't be suprised if we see a lot of Singler moving to his natural position a the 3 this year and especially next year with Kelly.

Kedsy
10-13-2008, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't be suprised if we see a lot of Singler moving to his natural position a the 3 this year...

Well, you're the only one.

Devilsfan
10-13-2008, 10:56 AM
Hope he (Miles) improves enough to man up to Carolinas PFs. With our coaches, I like his odds. I know Dave can play D with the best of them, plus Zoubek SHOULD improve and not need as much help on the court, if he can stay healthy. This will give Singler a chance to move outside on certain lineups. And don't forget a much improved Lance. We should be fine upfront this year.

BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 10:57 AM
Jumbo, Your comments are interesting for another reason. If Miles starts over Zoubek then that would seem to imply that Zoubek is either in bad shape or has not progressed as much as we all had hoped this off season. Your stating that Miles could start actually seems like very bad news to me. However, I am still very doubtful that you are right on this, and perhaps even if you are there are other explanations that do not come to mind...

jipops
10-13-2008, 11:26 AM
Jumbo, Your comments are interesting for another reason. If Miles starts over Zoubek then that would seem to imply that Zoubek is either in bad shape or has not progressed as much as we all had hoped this off season. Your stating that Miles could start actually seems like very bad news to me. However, I am still very doubtful that you are right on this, and perhaps even if you are there are other explanations that do not come to mind...

Wow, that's turning an otherwise positive comment by Jumbo into something very negative. If someone 'in-the-know' says something like this about a player we haven't even seen yet, then that has to be decent news at worse.

I'm more than confident about Zoubek's ability to be a major factor this year. If we have another guy to provide an inside presence other than Singler and Thomas then that's a huge bonus.

BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 11:42 AM
Wow, that's turning an otherwise positive comment by Jumbo into something very negative. If someone 'in-the-know' says something like this about a player we haven't even seen yet, then that has to be decent news at worse.

I'm more than confident about Zoubek's ability to be a major factor this year. If we have another guy to provide an inside presence other than Singler and Thomas then that's a huge bonus.

I admit that it is negative in a way, but if I am being honest, I would rather hear that the junior seven footer has been looking great and has all but claimed the starting spot, than hear that the rail thin freshman has frog-leaped two veteran post players for the spot.

Still, it is great news for Miles!!! I am simply arguing that what is good for Miles might not necessarily be what is good for the team here. That an inexperienced post player could take that spot from two older experienced players does not seem to be a positive reflection on our talent level at the position right now. Am I wrong?

In this respect, my comment that I don't believe Jumbo until I see it with my own two eyes is choosing to be positive... not negative. I want to believe that Zoubek is ready to dominate (or even Lance perhaps) and so I choose to not to believe Jumbo because I think our front court will be better than that.

COYS
10-13-2008, 12:07 PM
Wow, that's turning an otherwise positive comment by Jumbo into something very negative. If someone 'in-the-know' says something like this about a player we haven't even seen yet, then that has to be decent news at worse.

I'm more than confident about Zoubek's ability to be a major factor this year. If we have another guy to provide an inside presence other than Singler and Thomas then that's a huge bonus.

I agree. Let's say that Zoubek and Thomas have improved, significantly. Let's say Zoubek has really worked on his offensive footwork and has fully recovered from injury. Now we can bring him in and run the offense through him. We can pound the ball into the post and let him either score or pass. Or we can bring Thomas in and ratchet up the pressure defense. Or we can bring Miles and utilize his fluidity in our offensive scheme. If any of those three show serious offensive potential, we can also "go big" every once in a while to spell some of our other players. If Zoubek is able to become a consistent threat on offense, we can play him and Thomas at the same time (at least in short bursts), which may even open things up for Thomas. Then we can give guys like Henderson and Singler rest without losing as much offense as we would have this past year with such a lineup. At any rate, quality play from Miles is only a good thing. i don't see how it could be a negative.

quickgtp
10-13-2008, 12:21 PM
There's an enormous irony here - and I don't rule out the possibility that it's intentional.

When it comes to Czyz a large number of posters predict major minutes and some go so far as to forecast some pretty lofty averages for him. In this case Jumbo usually steps in and says something about having reasonable expectations.

Now Jumbo states there's a decent chance that Plumlee starts and someone tells him to lower his expectations.

BTW - I've also heard that Plumlee is looking very good and that there's a good chance he can see meaningful playing time this season. He's not going to pull out a SportsCenter highlight dunk like Olek, but he's also not going to get as lost in a structured defense or offense either.

I am certainly not one of those who think Olek will get considerable PT, or that he will fill our post need. Williams will by far get the most PT of any of the 3 incoming freshmen.....

quickgtp
10-13-2008, 12:24 PM
Idiotic thread. Completely counterproductive. It leads to criticism of Duke players and uneducated speculation.

How does this "discussion" contribute to the Duke Basketball community?

There is a big difference between this "criticism" and being realistic. I also feel this is a completely legitimate thread because it, after all, is about Duke basketball!

Kedsy
10-13-2008, 12:46 PM
I am certainly not one of those who think Olek will get considerable PT, or that he will fill our post need. Williams will by far get the most PT of any of the 3 incoming freshmen.....


I agree that people seem to be underestimating E-mail's potential contribution to this year's team. I expect Williams to play significantly more minutes than Czyz and Plumlee combined.

That said, I have absolutely no inside information. If Jumbo has, then I have to defer to him. If Plumlee (or Czyz, for that matter, to give dkbaseball his due) is ready to play big minutes, I think it's great news, and I think it means Duke will be a top 5 team (which it may be anyway).

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 01:39 PM
That statement is very surprising to me. I'd also like to know why you think this is possible.

Wow, I see there are a lot of questions along these lines. I think it's possible because I've been told it's possible. The center spot is still up in the air, and if I had to put my money on a starter, I'd pick Zoubek. But Plumlee is in the mix and is WAY ahead of Czyz in the pecking order for playing time. Stuff still needs to play out, the lineups early in the season could be interesting.

Based on conversations I've had, I expect Duke will pretty much play everyone in blowouts. But in close games, I see a nine-man rotation:

-Singler
-Scheyer
-Henderson
-Paulus
-Smith
-E. Willams
-Zoubek
-Thomas
-Plumlee

I could see McClure getting situational PT. Czyz and Pocius would probably be on the outside looking in, but a lot can change over the next month, let alone once the season starts.

Hope that helps.

Wander
10-13-2008, 02:13 PM
Based on conversations I've had, I expect Duke will pretty much play everyone in blowouts. But in close games, I see a nine-man rotation:

-Singler
-Scheyer
-Henderson
-Paulus
-Smith
-E. Willams
-Zoubek
-Thomas
-Plumlee

I could see McClure getting situational PT. Czyz and Pocius would probably be on the outside looking in, but a lot can change over the next month, let alone once the season starts.


This is exactly what I expected - those nine guys seeing meaningful playing time. The big question I have, and I have no idea what the answer is on this one, is whether or not we're going to be seeing long stretches of 4 guards + Singler again this year at the end of games.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 02:26 PM
This is exactly what I expected - those nine guys seeing meaningful playing time. The big question I have, and I have no idea what the answer is on this one, is whether or not we're going to be seeing long stretches of 4 guards + Singler again this year at the end of games.

The staff is strongly committed to keeping Singler at the 4 this year. They know he wore down playing a lot of five last season. But, also, there was another reason to play him at the five -- it was the only way to get Scheyer, Henderson and Nelson in the game together (well, I might have put Scheyer at the point, but that's not important now). This year, Duke doesn't have nearly as much of a problem getting its best players on the court together. Duke also doesn't have a guy like DeMarcus Nelson, who really compensated for the team's lack of size with tremendous physical tools inside. I think we'll see a big of 4-guards around Singler, but, as others have said, only situationally -- to close games with a lead or against other small teams.

I'm pretty certain that the 5-spot will be a committee of Zoubek, Plumlee and Thomas (none of those guys will get 20 mpg in that spot), with Thomas also backing up Singler at the 4. Smith/Paulus split time at the point, maybe play a little together, and E-Will backs up Scheyer and Henderson at the wing spots.

Skitzle
10-13-2008, 03:05 PM
Jumbo hit the rotation nail on the head.

I'll add that you'll see McClure as the 10th man in the rotation, mostly situationally or if a number of our front court guys get into foul trouble

roywhite
10-13-2008, 03:12 PM
Since regular practices have not started yet, and the three freshman are still awaiting their first full practice, aren't we being a little premature in forecasting minutes and rotation? Or at least not certain yet?

What are such judgments based on? Pick-up games, heresay, and summer league games? Didn't we already hear that such things are hugely unreliable?

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 03:14 PM
I'm pretty certain that the 5-spot will be a committee of Zoubek, Plumlee and Thomas

Well, we'll just be seeing about that, won't we. When they actually get on a basketball floor, all Czyz does is get named MVP of an all-star game and all-league in a summer pro-am (which Singler, Thomas and Plumlee were not, despite showing up to play as much as Czyz). Maybe at some point in your dismissal of Czyz's prospects for playing time you'll give some indication that you've actually seen him play. Until then, we'll assume that you're reporting somebody's account of pick-up games -- i..e, the sort of competition you're normally at pains to discount.

Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be. I know the player I saw in high school, and I know how he stacks up with several other Duke signees I've seen in high school, including the best player ever to play at Duke, Grant Hill. But we'll see soon enough.

Kedsy
10-13-2008, 03:17 PM
This year, Duke doesn't have nearly as much of a problem getting its best players on the court together.

Unless Nolan Smith and/or Elliot Williams step up to the point where they can't be relegated to backup status.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 03:20 PM
Since regular practices have not started yet, and the three freshman are still awaiting their first full practice, aren't we being a little premature in forecasting minutes and rotation? Or at least not certain yet?

What are such judgments based on? Pick-up games, heresay, and summer league games? Didn't we already hear that such things are hugely unreliable?

Why do you think the team hasn't been practicing? Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Why do you think the team hasn't been practicing? Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.

Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely. Roy, we may in fact be hopelessly naive outsiders.

BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Oh boy Jumbo... I really hope we aren't holding regular practices. Let's just keep it to the NCAA restricted two hours per week. Since you are close to the program can you please tell Coach K to stop violating NCAA rules (now THAT is sarcasm).

jimsumner
10-13-2008, 03:37 PM
"Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be."

Can you clarify this statement for me? You seem to be suggesting that there are people who don't want to see Czyz succeed or that the coaches have already decided on a rotation that they will stick with regardless. Or am I misreading this? I hope so.

Who would "circle the wagons" in the hope that a player wouldn't be better than advertised?

We all know how highly you have touted Czyz and I hope you're right. I trust that everyone associated with the Duke program hopes you're right. But a lot of people who are in a position to know think that Czyz has a pretty big learning curve ahead of him before he gets meaningful PT and I'm pretty sure none of them have any ulterior motive other than offering their best judgment.

Turtleboy
10-13-2008, 03:40 PM
Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely.The NCAA doesn't allow the coach to hold a practice or to observe players who are practicing. AFAIK, there is nothing wrong with the captains running the team through drills, scrimmages, etc.

bdh21
10-13-2008, 03:40 PM
Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely. Roy, we may in fact be hopelessly naive outsiders.

The NCAA doesn't permit practice time with coaching staffs before this coming Friday. The team can practice to their hearts' content as long as it's directed by members of the team. How else will the freshman know the drill during the open practice and b/w scrimmage?

In actuality, the team has been practicing for some time (not just playing pickup, but practicing). Every practice is recorded and broken down. They have a decent idea right now of what they're going to get from players at this level. So if any word of that actually leaks out through reliable sources, and I'm not making judgments on who here is reliable, chances are it has weight behind it.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 03:41 PM
Uh, because the NCAA doesn't permit it? I missed the sarcasm completely. Roy, we may in fact be hopelessly naive outsiders.

Nah, you just might to familiarize yourself with the rules instead. This (http://dukeblueplanet.com/blog.asp?bid=1) might help. And that doesn't even include captain-led practices.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 03:43 PM
"Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be."

Can you clarify this statement for me? You seem to be suggesting that there are people who don't want to see Czyz succeed or that the coaches have already decided on a rotation that they will stick with regardless. Or am I misreading this? I hope so.

Who would "circle the wagons" in the hope that a player wouldn't be better than advertised?

We all know how highly you have touted Czyz and I hope you're right. I trust that everyone associated with the Duke program hopes you're right. But a lot of people who are in a position to know think that Czyz has a pretty big learning curve ahead of him before he gets meaningful PT and I'm pretty sure none of them have any ulterior motive other than offering their best judgment.

Jim, you're wrong. The coaching staff recruited Czyz specifically so they could hold him back. Also, Coach K hates Polish people.

devildeac
10-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Jim, you're wrong. The coaching staff recruited Czyz specifically so they could hold him back. Also, Coach K hates Polish people.

I did not realize Coach K hates Polish people. I think we are on to something here. AFAIK, Lithuania is fairly close to Poland. Maybe that's why...oh, never mind:rolleyes:.

BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Jim, you're wrong. The coaching staff recruited Czyz specifically so they could hold him back. Also, Coach K hates Polish people.

I heard that K immediately extended an offer to Olek when he heard that there was actually a Polish top 100 recruit. Unfortunately, Olek showed up at Duke for an unofficial visit after accepting and Coach K was informed that Olek's last name did not end in "ski". At this point K became disenchanted with the enormously talented superstar. From then on, both K and Wojo have been ruthlessly abusing the phenom verbally and physically.

K was overheard the other day in K-ville saying, "Czyz you aren't even Polish Light. You're not fit to hold Taymon Domzalski's jockstrap. I hope you enjoy your season at the end of the bench poser."

Poor Olek... so much potential... possibly the next Lebron.... and yet the entire coaching staff is against him. Its a tragic story.

mgtr
10-13-2008, 04:01 PM
If some newby reads this thread, they will think we are all absolutely nuts! Of course, we really are nuts.

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 05:11 PM
"Frankly, I think the reports you're getting are the sound of the established pecking order circling the wagons against the possibility that somebody who wasn't supposed to be a featured player quite possibly will be."

Can you clarify this statement for me? You seem to be suggesting that there are people who don't want to see Czyz succeed or that the coaches have already decided on a rotation that they will stick with regardless. Or am I misreading this? I hope so.

Who would "circle the wagons" in the hope that a player wouldn't be better than advertised?

We all know how highly you have touted Czyz and I hope you're right. I trust that everyone associated with the Duke program hopes you're right. But a lot of people who are in a position to know think that Czyz has a pretty big learning curve ahead of him before he gets meaningful PT and I'm pretty sure none of them have any ulterior motive other than offering their best judgment.

Here's what I mean. I'm quite certain that there has never been a gathering of young American males in an environment of athletic competition that hasn't turned into a dog-eat-dog effort to form a status hierarchy. It's ALL about the pecking order when they don't have adult supervision, and that's one of the things that makes it challenging to make a team out of Americans. I expect this is true even notwithstanding the selflessness ethos of the Duke basketball program. When they are self-supervising, these sorts of elements are going to come into play.

So enter the coaching staff. If K looks at Czyz's tools for a month or two and decides he doesn't want him playing meaningful minutes this year then I will happily admit I was wrong. Well, not quite so happily, because when I look at Jumbo's rotation I see that last year's toughest player and best shooter have been replaced by two beanpole freshmen. I get very worried that they're going to come up puny and run-down again in March. I'm wondering who's going to match the burst of a Joe Alexander in March, when the team's man-child is buried on the bench.

Wander
10-13-2008, 05:21 PM
Well, not quite so happily, because when I look at Jumbo's rotation I see that last year's toughest player and best shooter have been replaced by two beanpole freshmen.

Huh? Toughest is subjective to the point where it's not worth arguing about and reasonable people can disagree there, but our best shooter is going to start and get plenty of minutes.

Wander
10-13-2008, 05:34 PM
I'm pretty certain that the 5-spot will be a committee of Zoubek, Plumlee and Thomas (none of those guys will get 20 mpg in that spot), with Thomas also backing up Singler at the 4. Smith/Paulus split time at the point, maybe play a little together, and E-Will backs up Scheyer and Henderson at the wing spots.

Good, encouraging to hear. With the usual disclaimers that it's very early and I'll be more than happy if Czyz or Pocius ends up better than I thought and gets meaningful minutes, that's exactly the rotation I want to see.

SilkyJ
10-13-2008, 05:55 PM
Idiotic thread. Completely counterproductive. It leads to criticism of Duke players and uneducated speculation.

How does this "discussion" contribute to the Duke Basketball community?

I agree, and tried to say as much in my 1st response to the original poster, but tried to be nicer b/c of the "Civility" rules. Perhaps I should have used your angle...

What I find most disheartening about his whole thread is that I tried to quash it from the get-go and now its 3 pages long (hence, why I think maybe I should have tried your angle). The mods do a terrific job in general, but this is a situation where I hope a mod has PMed the original poster and at least guided him to see why his original post was absolutely ridiculous. Once the season gets going I hope we can eliminate or nip these threads in the bud, otherwise the signal-to-noise is going to continue to get worse...

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 06:00 PM
Huh? Toughest is subjective to the point where it's not worth arguing about and reasonable people can disagree there, but our best shooter is going to start and get plenty of minutes.


Well, if you asked for 20 subjective opinions about who Duke's physically toughest player was last year, the guy who was most ready to mix it up when things got down and dirty, you would get about 19 votes for Markie, or you would be polling a group of people who know nothing about Duke basketball. IMO King was the best pure shooter on the team last year.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 07:06 PM
Here's what I mean. I'm quite certain that there has never been a gathering of young American males in an environment of athletic competition that hasn't turned into a dog-eat-dog effort to form a status hierarchy. It's ALL about the pecking order when they don't have adult supervision, and that's one of the things that makes it challenging to make a team out of Americans. I expect this is true even notwithstanding the selflessness ethos of the Duke basketball program. When they are self-supervising, these sorts of elements are going to come into play.

So enter the coaching staff. If K looks at Czyz's tools for a month or two and decides he doesn't want him playing meaningful minutes this year then I will happily admit I was wrong. Well, not quite so happily, because when I look at Jumbo's rotation I see that last year's toughest player and best shooter have been replaced by two beanpole freshmen. I get very worried that they're going to come up puny and run-down again in March. I'm wondering who's going to match the burst of a Joe Alexander in March, when the team's man-child is buried on the bench.

Got it. So, all the returning players are banding together and saying Czyz isn't good because he's a freshman ... while simultaneously saying Plumlee has a chance to start and that Elliot Williams has been quite good so far. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I guess that's why they weren't raving about Singler last year, since they all wanted to keep their jobs. Oh, wait, they were raving.

Oh, and on another note, Joe Alexander was the least of Duke's problems in the Tourney. He shot 7-for-22. Duke lost that game on offense, and then eventually wore down and started giving up offensive boards to a 6'1" guard. WVA went small -- there's no reason why Singler couldn't match up with a Joe Alexander-type this year. Or Thomas. Or McClure (who did a darn good job on Alexander until Duke had to take him out because we simply couldn't score).

But, again, this is all part of a clear Hold-Czyz-Down Conspiracy.

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 07:20 PM
Got it. So, all the returning players are banding together and saying Czyz isn't good because he's a freshman ... while simultaneously saying Plumlee has a chance to start and that Elliot Williams has been quite good so far. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. I guess that's why they weren't raving about Singler last year, since they all wanted to keep their jobs. Oh, wait, they were raving.

Oh, and on another note, Joe Alexander was the least of Duke's problems in the Tourney. He shot 7-for-22. Duke lost that game on offense, and then eventually wore down and started giving up offensive boards to a 6'1" guard. WVA went small -- there's no reason why Singler couldn't match up with a Joe Alexander-type this year. Or Thomas. Or McClure (who did a darn good job on Alexander until Duke had to take him out because we simply couldn't score).

But, again, this is all part of a clear Hold-Czyz-Down Conspiracy.

I'm merely speculating. Czyz, IMO, is going to be a star. He is joining a veteran team expected to make a long run without him, and the playing time has already been allocated in the minds of people like you, and no doubt the returning players as well. If you want to be naive about human nature go ahead. Of course, I don't have the slightest idea whom I might be speculating about, since you don't reveal your sources, but simply ask everyone to accept that you are some sort of plugged-in insider. But anyone who says the strongest, most explosive player on the team has little chance to get time has some sort of agenda. BTW, have you ever seen him play?

I'm sorry, but I must have been watching a different game in March if you think that Singler or any of the other dead-legged Duke players could even begin to match up with Alexander physically. This really is a case of looking without being able to see.

Kedsy
10-13-2008, 07:29 PM
I agree, and tried to say as much in my 1st response to the original poster, but tried to be nicer b/c of the "Civility" rules. Perhaps I should have used your angle...

What I find most disheartening about his whole thread is that I tried to quash it from the get-go and now its 3 pages long (hence, why I think maybe I should have tried your angle). The mods do a terrific job in general, but this is a situation where I hope a mod has PMed the original poster and at least guided him to see why his original post was absolutely ridiculous. Once the season gets going I hope we can eliminate or nip these threads in the bud, otherwise the signal-to-noise is going to continue to get worse...

True, the original post had kind of an off-the-wall premise, but the thread evolved into a "who's going to be in this year's rotation" conversation, so what's wrong with that? Frankly, it's one of the few recent threads that have had anything at all to do with the current basketball season (which I assume is why it has gone on for 3 pages). If this is the "noise," what's the "signal"?

jimsumner
10-13-2008, 07:33 PM
"But anyone who says the strongest, most explosive player on the team has little chance to get time has some sort of agenda."

I'm sorry but this is just paranoid. This isn't track and field. The overwhelming consensus of people who have seen Czyz play over the last three months is that he has a high ceiling but is very raw, has a limited skill set, and is still learning where he needs to be on the court, when he needs to be there, and why he needs to be there. Maybe I'm betraying my lack of knowledge concerning human nature but I just don't see an agenda here, just a difference of opinion.

I have high respect for you as a poster and I hope you'll take this in the spirit of good fellowship in which it is offered. Is it possible you've got too much of an emotional investment in the idea that you're right about Czyz and everybody else is wrong? Because I think the Grant Hill and Len Bias comparisons are way over the top and I would love to be proven wrong. That's not an agenda.

ACCBBallFan
10-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Plumlee will play. In fact, there's a decent chance that he'll start as a frosh. It's beyond ridiculous to suggest that politics might factor into that decision.

I guess I am the only one that Jumbo might have been being facetious on his quote above from the first page.



I'm pretty certain that the 5-spot will be a committee of Zoubek, Plumlee and Thomas (none of those guys will get 20 mpg in that spot), with Thomas also backing up Singler at the 4. Smith/Paulus split time at the point, maybe play a little together, and E-Will backs up Scheyer and Henderson at the wing spots.

This quote I agree with, except I would expect that Zoubek and Lance are the primary options and Plumlee plays more when one or both are in foul trouble.

It takes most bigs a while to develop and these two have a couple years of Duke experience under their belts, at least mentally since some of that time they were injured.

dkbaseball
10-13-2008, 08:03 PM
"But anyone who says the strongest, most explosive player on the team has little chance to get time has some sort of agenda."

I'm sorry but this is just paranoid. This isn't track and field. The overwhelming consensus of people who have seen Czyz play over the last three months is that he has a high ceiling but is very raw, has a limited skill set, and is still learning where he needs to be on the court, when he needs to be there, and why he needs to be there. Maybe I'm betraying my lack of knowledge concerning human nature but I just don't see an agenda here, just a difference of opinion.

I have high respect for you as a poster and I hope you'll take this in the spirit of good fellowship in which it is offered. Is it possible you've got too much of an emotional investment in the idea that you're right about Czyz and everybody else is wrong? Because I think the Grant Hill and Len Bias comparisons are way over the top and I would love to be proven wrong. That's not an agenda.

I take it in said spirit, and I've already fessed up on this board to having a big investment in being right about Czyz. What's frustrating, though, about assenting to this apparently accumulating weight of anonymous authority is that I have been very specific in my analysis of Czyz's tools, but I'm not getting anything like that specificity from the refuters. I see that he needs to be told where when and why to go on the court, but I do not see the "limited skill set." What are those limitations, and who is making the judgment?

I really don't want to go on record as saying he will be comparable to two of the league's immortals. It's nothing but potential at this point, and plenty of people have failed to live up to their potential. But I will say this: I have seen Czyz play 12 times in high school, I saw Grant play at least an equal number. I am as excited about Czyz as I was about Grant, and more so than I was about Danny Ferry and ten other Duke signees I've seen. Grant was more polished coming out of high school, and more efficient in his movements. Czyz is stronger, more durable, and perhaps more motivated. Skill sets seem a wash to me.

SilkyJ
10-13-2008, 08:09 PM
True, the original post had kind of an off-the-wall premise, but the thread evolved into a "who's going to be in this year's rotation" conversation, so what's wrong with that? Frankly, it's one of the few recent threads that have had anything at all to do with the current basketball season (which I assume is why it has gone on for 3 pages). If this is the "noise," what's the "signal"?

That's pretty fair WRT to the evolution of the thread...even if there is now a discussion of how there's an anti-Czyz conspiracy. I mean really, where do these people who come up with this junk come from?!

What I really am talking about it the number of posts/posters like the original one. Over the last year to year and a half there seem to have been many, many more posts like this that are just soooo ridiculous and so instead of me reading 10 posts and learning something from 8 or 9 of them, I now have to sift through 10 posts just to find one post with anything of substance in it. This is apt to get worse once the season starts.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 08:28 PM
"But anyone who says the strongest, most explosive player on the team has little chance to get time has some sort of agenda."

I'm sorry but this is just paranoid. This isn't track and field. The overwhelming consensus of people who have seen Czyz play over the last three months is that he has a high ceiling but is very raw, has a limited skill set, and is still learning where he needs to be on the court, when he needs to be there, and why he needs to be there. Maybe I'm betraying my lack of knowledge concerning human nature but I just don't see an agenda here, just a difference of opinion.

I have high respect for you as a poster and I hope you'll take this in the spirit of good fellowship in which it is offered. Is it possible you've got too much of an emotional investment in the idea that you're right about Czyz and everybody else is wrong? Because I think the Grant Hill and Len Bias comparisons are way over the top and I would love to be proven wrong. That's not an agenda.

It's beyond paranoid. I'm merely repeating what I'm hearing, yet dkbaseball seems to think everyone is out to get Czyz (not any of the other freshmen; just Czyz). Jim, you and I are hearing a lot of the same stuff. Czyz has a lot to learn. Of course, dkbaseball has already placed that burden on the K and the staff, saying they just have to "coach him up," as if that happens magically (and really quickly).

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 08:30 PM
I guess I am the only one that Jumbo might have been being facetious on his quote above from the first page.



This quote I agree with, except I would expect that Zoubek and Lance are the primary options and Plumlee plays more when one or both are in foul trouble.

It takes most bigs a while to develop and these two have a couple years of Duke experience under their belts, at least mentally since some of that time they were injured.

No, I was being serious. Plumlee is in the mix to start. It doesn't mean he will. It doesn't mean he'll hold onto the job if he gets it at the beginning of the year. It doesn't mean he'll play more than 10-15 minutes. It doesn't mean he'll be anything more than a screener, rebounder and defender. But he's tall, fairly strong, fairly agile and knows the game well. Duke's not looking for more than that out of the 5 spot.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 08:33 PM
I take it in said spirit, and I've already fessed up on this board to having a big investment in being right about Czyz. What's frustrating, though, about assenting to this apparently accumulating weight of anonymous authority is that I have been very specific in my analysis of Czyz's tools, but I'm not getting anything like that specificity from the refuters. I see that he needs to be told where when and why to go on the court, but I do not see the "limited skill set." What are those limitations, and who is making the judgment?

I really don't want to go on record as saying he will be comparable to two of the league's immortals. It's nothing but potential at this point, and plenty of people have failed to live up to their potential. But I will say this: I have seen Czyz play 12 times in high school, I saw Grant play at least an equal number. I am as excited about Czyz as I was about Grant, and more so than I was about Danny Ferry and ten other Duke signees I've seen. Grant was more polished coming out of high school, and more efficient in his movements. Czyz is stronger, more durable, and perhaps more motivated. Skill sets seem a wash to me.

What I don't think you understand is that everyone wants you to be right. I'm sorry it bothers you that I won't reveal my sources. But if I did that, I wouldn't have sources anymore. I appreciate that you have watched him play so often. But you haven't watched him play with the team. You haven't seen him try to pick up basic Duke concepts. There's a lot that goes into making the transition from high school to college, and it's not easy. I wish I were hearing more stuff about Czyz's ability to contribute immediately. I'm not. I'm sorry about that. Everyone does agree, though, that he's a fabulous athlete -- off the charts. Let's hope he develops the game and hoops IQ to match.

Wander
10-13-2008, 09:14 PM
Well, if you asked for 20 subjective opinions about who Duke's physically toughest player was last year, the guy who was most ready to mix it up when things got down and dirty, you would get about 19 votes for Markie, or you would be polling a group of people who know nothing about Duke basketball. IMO King was the best pure shooter on the team last year.

All I'm saying is toughness is subjective, but forget that. As for King, he was certainly our best shooter from 35 feet out. But he was a below average free throw shooter and overall simply didn't shoot better in game than Scheyer or Paulus against better opponents - I'd say it's pretty clear that Paulus was our best shooter last year and it's a pretty good guess he will be again this year.

This is all getting very off topic of course. I appreciate that you've seen Czyz play a lot, but when you make statements like these or statements like "McRoberts thrived at Duke," you're not giving me a reason to believe you over recruiting experts. I am also curious as to what possible agenda I could have? I can't think of a single one. You won't find anyone happier than me if Czyz turns out to be an All-American. I hope he wins national player of the year.

Devilsfan
10-13-2008, 10:15 PM
A Grant comparison. Let's keep it real.

Newton_14
10-13-2008, 10:22 PM
The good news is, all of our questions will be answered very soon! Blue-White game is 5 days away and I can't wait to see the team on the court!

I can buy into Miles being in the mix for the 5 spot as well. I do not see that as unreasonable at all. He is not a "bean-pole" as some have indicated, he has the size, understands the game well, and has been touted as fairly athletic as well. It all comes down to how well he defends and rebounds.

As for Olek, he is a freak of nature. Is he ready to contribute right away? Who knows? I know DkBaseball is convinced and others believe he needs time to mature and learn the game. My thoughts are the same as they are with any Duke freshman... The door to his PT is 100% defense related. If he can defend he will see minutes.

The one thing I am convinced of is this is going to be a great year. Veteran team with some intriquing new blood coming in, lots of options, lots of ways to score the ball, and lots of good defenders. Just need to defend the paint and rebound rebound rebound!!!

roywhite
10-13-2008, 10:53 PM
Controversy and divided opinion about playing time = depth

At least, probably so. Consensus is that Henderson, Scheyer, and Singler will be key players and very good. But different opinions on who fills the other slots seems to me to mean more quality players and certainly more size. A good thing.

Let the players compete and the coaches sort it out. Good season ahead.

Jumbo
10-13-2008, 11:18 PM
Controversy and divided opinion about playing time = depth

At least, probably so. Consensus is that Henderson, Scheyer, and Singler will be key players and very good. But different opinions on who fills the other slots seems to me to mean more quality players and certainly more size. A good thing.

Let the players compete and the coaches sort it out. Good season ahead.

Agreed. With 12 recruited players and (finally) a number of upperclassmen, K has a ton of options. That doesn't mean everyone has to play; depth is more about the ability to play guys. But it's exciting to have so many players. Let's hope they all stay healthy.

Newton_14
10-13-2008, 11:19 PM
Excellent point Roy! Depth on a Duke team, what a concept huh? We should finally have it this year. I for one hope that all 3 of the freshman can make some type of impact. I think we know what we have with Gerald, Singler, Scheyer, Greg, and Dave, and we hope for improvement with the big fella, LT, and Nolan. With Marty returning after a year off, it's almost like having 4 new guys coming in to the mix.

One thing is for sure, there are a lot of guys that can contribute and the fight for PT should help all of them.

BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 11:43 PM
Let's hope they all stay healthy.

Everybody please throw up a pre-season prayer to the basketball gods asking for good health. We have had some bad luck in recent years and I attribute it to DBR board members not giving proper due to the Basketball Gods. If you don't subscribe to this religion then do whatever superstitious thing you do...
we might REALLY GO PLACES IN MARCH if we keep EVERYONE HEALTHY!!!

Bob Green
10-14-2008, 01:35 AM
Michael Tomko has written a nice article at GoDuke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1602723) that includes these two qoutes about Plumlee and Czyz:


“Miles brings something that we don’t have,” Henderson said. “He is a big guy that can play over the rim. His athleticism and his length allow him to block shots, rebound over the top of the rim and dunk it. Really nobody else on our team can do that consistently.”

“Czyz is a very talented big man,” Singler said. “He is very athletic too. He can rebound the ball. He is definitely going to give us someone that can kind of pound inside and help us in the paint.”

CALVET
10-14-2008, 03:41 AM
Michael Tomko has written a nice article at GoDuke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1602723) that includes these two qoutes about Plumlee and Czyz:

It seems that the discussions have been only about Czyz playing PF. With the other two bigs coming next year, is there any possibility he might get groomed for SF? I'm aware of the reports concerning his steep learning curve, but from the videos and other discussions here, he does appear to have the skill set needed.

ACCBBallFan
10-14-2008, 06:37 AM
No, I was being serious. Plumlee is in the mix to start. It doesn't mean he will. It doesn't mean he'll hold onto the job if he gets it at the beginning of the year. It doesn't mean he'll play more than 10-15 minutes. It doesn't mean he'll be anything more than a screener, rebounder and defender. But he's tall, fairly strong, fairly agile and knows the game well. Duke's not looking for more than that out of the 5 spot.

It would be a huge difference for Duke if Miles Plumlee can earn even the backup post defender by committee slot his freshman year. Let’s face it, Lance Thomas is never going to be more than an adequate 5, but he has the potential to be a very good, not great 4.

Two years ago, Duke was competitive with anybody until Josh McRoberts had to sit due to fouls or exhaustion. Ditto last year for Singler.

So if instead of playing Lance out of position because there was no one else, Lance could be the backup 4. That makes a big difference from playing Dave McClure there where Duke would be playing not to lose rather than to win.

UCONN ten years or so ago and others have proven a team can be successful with the center by committee approach you are suggesting, but take it the final step:

Post defender, screener, rebounder, dunker: Zoubek, Miles Plumlee, McClure, Czyz
Power Forward: Singler backed up by Lance Thomas
Wing Forward: Henderson, Pocius or E-Will
SG: Scheyer, Elliott Williams or Marty
PG: Paulus, Nolan Smith

Now instead of mortgaging two positions when he has to go to his bench, Coach K can get some production out of Lance in a backup SF role. Miles and Olek just by trying to dunk everything when they are in there, may draw a foul or two on the opposing center and keep the post defender from being able to double Singler or Henderson who are Duke’s strength, just as Zoubek can do due to sheer size.

Dave is no worse a post defender than Lance, perhaps a better defender and rebounder with respect to positioning, and a better assist man, but Lance is more of an offensive threat at power forward than Dave is. So let Lance be the player he came to Duke to be, rather than the post player that does not play to his strengths or confidence at all.

The next year after this season, Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly add the depth and additional competition with perhaps Dave McClure and Greg Paulus being the only guys no longer on the team. But if Singler or Henderson goes, at least Lance has been developed and two very talented guys arriving.

I had pretty much written off any immediate contribution from Miles or Olek until a year or more of seasoning, but if Miles is ready immediately, that could be huge for Duke because it frees up Lance to backup Singler.

So the goal should be to get 20 minutes from Zoubek and Miles Plumlee, and for Duke to take their chances with Dave McClure or Olek in emergency post defender third and fourth string roles, thus having a more than adequate reserve for Singler.

The other side benefit is it is Miles and Olek and Dave taking the elbows and size disadvantage against Zoubek, rather than Kyle and Lance wearing out as the season progresses. Zoubek learns to defend against guys who dunk a lot, may even learn he should do that more often. Dave knows the Duke system with respect to rotating and can teach the other three on the post defender by committee the proper positioning.

SilkyJ
10-14-2008, 01:43 PM
It seems that the discussions have been only about Czyz playing PF. With the other two bigs coming next year, is there any possibility he might get groomed for SF? I'm aware of the reports concerning his steep learning curve, but from the videos and other discussions here, he does appear to have the skill set needed.

highly doubtful for this year, simply based on need: we are loaded at the 2/3 position and we need post players. However, it does sound like he needs the most work facing the basket so I'm sure they will work on those skills this year.

Next year could be another story with Mason, miles, kelly, lance and zoubs all around to play in the paint...

jv001
10-14-2008, 03:36 PM
Michael Tomko has written a nice article at GoDuke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1602723) that includes these two qoutes about Plumlee and Czyz:

I've not seen Miles play but from someone that has seen him play, he does not mind banging in the paint. However he has perimeter skills as well. As some have commented, we do not need a 15pt per game scorer at that position. What we need is defense and rebounds. Maybe a combination of Zoubs and Miles at the 5 will be the way it plays out. Go Duke!

MulletMan
10-14-2008, 04:44 PM
The good news is, all of our questions will be answered very soon! Blue-White game is 5 days away and I can't wait to see the team on the court!



????

Yes, thank goodness for the Blue-White game (especially this year since it will be the second practice of the season).

Let's just temper our expectations that come from what happens this Saturday. Recall the monstrous Casey Sanders, Nick Horvath, Shav Randolph performances of years gone by? Yes, the Blue-White is a fun chance for us to see the team on the court, but it is not really an indicator of how guys will play in the regular season. Frankly, I usually spend most of the game praying that no one comes down on an ankle funny.

bdh21
10-14-2008, 04:54 PM
????

Yes, thank goodness for the Blue-White game (especially this year since it will be the second practice of the season).

Let's just temper our expectations that come from what happens this Saturday. Recall the monstrous Casey Sanders, Nick Horvath, Shav Randolph performances of years gone by? Yes, the Blue-White is a fun chance for us to see the team on the court, but it is not really an indicator of how guys will play in the regular season. Frankly, I usually spend most of the game praying that no one comes down on an ankle funny.

Yep, that's the Blue-White game: Where the only meaningful news is the bad news!

Newton_14
10-14-2008, 09:19 PM
????

Yes, thank goodness for the Blue-White game (especially this year since it will be the second practice of the season).

Let's just temper our expectations that come from what happens this Saturday. Recall the monstrous Casey Sanders, Nick Horvath, Shav Randolph performances of years gone by? Yes, the Blue-White is a fun chance for us to see the team on the court, but it is not really an indicator of how guys will play in the regular season. Frankly, I usually spend most of the game praying that no one comes down on an ankle funny.

umm, excuse me, but what I meant is the BW game is in 5 days meaning the season is soon starting and we will soon be watching real games. Was not in any way suggesting we would have our answers based on Sat's scrimmage.

Devilsfan
10-14-2008, 10:46 PM
You shouldn't put Shav in the class with Horvath and Sanders. He beat out Chris Webber on the Sixers berfore his ankle injury. He will be playing in the league this year too.