Only 4 guards TOTAL on 2009-2010 roster? It may happen.

[houstondukie]

...if #1) Duke doesn't land Kenny Boynton AND #2) Gerald Henderson leaves after this season.

That leaves a gaurd rotation of:

PG Nolan Smith - Jr.
SG Jon Scheyer - Sr.
SF Elliot Williams - So.

Bench: Marty Pocious - Sr.




uh...anyone else nervous?

[taiw93]

Keep in mind, though, that we'll have an abundance of frontcourt depth, with Kyle, Lance, Miles, Mason, Zoubek, Czyz, and Kelly, so we could get by that season by playing Kyle, Lance, and/or Kelly at the 3, leaving us with four gaurds for two positions. I'm not worried at all.

[ehdg]

Geez I remember the old days when folks complained we where too much of a Guard orientated team with not enough bigs. Some folks are just never satisfied. :p

Oh yeah as to your question am I worried, NO as long as K is our Coach he always finds a way!!

[houstondukie]

Geez I remember the old days when folks complained we where too much of a Guard orientated team with not enough bigs. Some folks are just never satisfied. :p

Oh yeah as to your question am I worried, NO as long as K is our Coach he always finds a way!!

Never satisfied? Are you kidding?

We would have 4 guards total! And one of them is the potentially very good but very unproven Marty Pocious.

[phaedrus]

By the time Scheyer is a senior, he will be able to play both guard spots at the same time for 40 minutes a game.

So no, I'm not worried.

[houstondukie]

By the time Scheyer is a senior, he will be able to play both guard spots at the same time for 40 minutes a game.

So no, I'm not worried.

Good point. I didn't think about Scheyer playing all 40 minutes every game for 35 games straight. I mean, it's not like he's gonna get tired and break down by the end of the season.

And I'm sure none of guards will ever be in foul trouble.

Guess I'll stop being nervous now.

[ne1btunc]

you guys so sure marty will even be here next year?

[El_Diablo]

By the time Scheyer is a senior, he will be able to play both guard spots at the same time for 40 minutes a game.

Uh oh! If he gets that good then HE'LL go pro too! Then we'll only have three guards! Quick Coach K...extend an offer to anyone you can find under 6-3!

[phaedrus]

Good point. I didn't think about Scheyer playing all 40 minutes every game for 35 games straight.

I was actually joking (you seemed to have missed that I said Scheyer will play both guard positions at the same time).

On a serious note, how many guards does a team need? Lately, we've played three guards on the floor at once, so it makes sense that we should have at least 5 or 6 on hand. But we've played three guards at once because it was our best option, not because we always need to play three guards at once. As another poster mentioned, if we have good front-court play, we can play two guards at once like a more traditional team. We'll have two guards starting and two coming off the bench. Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

And as another poster noted, we generally trust in Coach K to provide a solution. Not that we shouldn't discuss what that solution might be, but the fact that we have Coach K in charge does tend to temper our worry.

[BlueintheFace]

I know it's a happy day for Duke recruiting, but this really is a possibility and a slightly disturbing one at that...

[El_Diablo]

If we don't get Boynton, we have an extra scholarship to use on another guard. And if Henderson leaves early, then we'll have two open scholarships.

It's a valid point that having only 4 guards is not a great situation for us...but it might not come to that, even if KB goes elsewhere and Gerald goes pro. I think we'll be okay.

[RainingThrees]

Marty doesn't have to go pro in the NBA. There are plenty of other pro leagues in Europe that pay good money.

[mgtr]

This is a problem that 99/100 teams would kill to have. We have been blessed with an abundance of guards in past years. Now, to be blessed with an abundance of forwards, most of whom can handle the ball, sounds like nirvana. Bring it on!!!!!

[VaDukie]

Guards
1999: Avery, Langdon, Carawell, Maggette, James
2000: Carawell, James, Williams
2001: James, Williams, Duhon
2002: Williams, Duhon, Ewing, Jones
2003: Duhon, Ewing, Jones, Redick, Dockery, *Buckner*
2004: Duhon, Ewing, Redick, Dockery
2005: Ewing, Redick, Dockery, Nelson, *Davidson*
2006: Redick, Dockery, Nelson, Paulus, Pocius
2007: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson
2008: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius (hurt), Scheyer, Henderson, Smith

Four guards is pretty much our standard. Buckner and Davidson are included for their glimpses of glory.

[ACCBBallFan]

Guess it's the world of messgae boards how one thread can be not enough scholarships left and the other be not enough guards. Got plenty of Talls, could use another BIG and Tall or another PG, but Duke has to be one of the deepest teams the next few years. Certainly not a foregone conclusion Henderson goes NBA route after this season or that Boynton does not commit, in which case next thread will be not enough PT to go around, who is the imminent transfer, yada, yada.

[BlueintheFace]

On second thought

1) Nolan Smith/ E-will
2) E-will/Scheyer/Pocius
3) Singler (maybe)/ Kelly
4/5) Plumlee boys/Zoubek/Thomas/Czyz

I think we'll be just fine...

[RainingThrees]

OC could also be a 3 since he is only 6-7 if he improves his handles and his shot.

[mgtr]

i think we are going to be in very, very good shape. Those boys over in Chapel H*ll will be worrying about what we have. Warms my heart no end.

[mgtr]

I just hope and pray that none of our players start dancing before the game. That would be very bad.

[Jumbo]

...if #1) Duke doesn't land Kenny Boynton AND #2) Gerald Henderson leaves after this season.

That leaves a gaurd rotation of:

PG Nolan Smith - Jr.
SG Jon Scheyer - Sr.
SF Elliot Williams - So.

Bench: Marty Pocious - Sr.




uh...anyone else nervous?

I can't handle this. Every time Duke lands a recruit, let alone when Duke misses on one, someone is already looking ahead, trying to figure out what is "missing." Why are we starting "what if" threads about 2009-10, when the 2008-09 season hasn't even started? Why are we already deciding who is leaving after this season? Why, after four years, can't we spell "Pocius?" This just keeps going on and on and on and on and on. It's amazing that people actually survived, let alone enoyed college basketball, prior to Internet Recruiting Age.

If Duke "only" has four "guards," next season, we'll deal with it. We'll go bigger at times, change styles at times, ask Singler to play some 3. Life will go on. Right now, Duke has 12 recruited players for this season. We're scheduled to have 12 next year. That's pretty amazing them, because not one member of that group is a schlub.

If people treat every game like this, the board isn't going to survive. Yeah, I mean that.

[DownEastDevil]

Guards
1999: Avery, Langdon, Carawell, Maggette, James
2000: Carawell, James, Williams
2001: James, Williams, Duhon
2002: Williams, Duhon, Ewing, Jones
2003: Duhon, Ewing, Jones, Redick, Dockery, *Buckner*
2004: Duhon, Ewing, Redick, Dockery
2005: Ewing, Redick, Dockery, Nelson, *Davidson*
2006: Redick, Dockery, Nelson, Paulus, Pocius
2007: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson
2008: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius (hurt), Scheyer, Henderson, Smith

Four guards is pretty much our standard. Buckner and Davidson are included for their glimpses of glory.
I remember a 6'8" forward that was moved to gaurd in 93-94 that took us to the national championship game. Then again you don't find many Grant Hill's do you.

[mgtr]

If I compare this year to last year, in effect I am giving up Nelson for Plumlee1, Email, and Czyz. I pcik this year. I believe we are very, very strong this year, and Superman next year. Talk about optimistic - that is me.
Can we beat UNC -- sure, we did it last year and we have a better team this year. And next year, there will be no limit.

[RockyMtDevil]

If Boynton decides elsewhere, what other targets are on K's radar? Anybody else we are looking at for 2009?

[BlueintheFace]

I can't handle this. Every time Duke lands a recruit, let alone when Duke misses on one, someone is already looking ahead, trying to figure out what is "missing." Why are we starting "what if" threads about 2009-10, when the 2008-09 season hasn't even started? Why are we already deciding who is leaving after this season? Why, after four years, can't we spell "Pocius?" This just keeps going on and on and on and on and on. It's amazing that people actually survived, let alone enoyed college basketball, prior to Internet Recruiting Age.

If Duke "only" has four "guards," next season, we'll deal with it. We'll go bigger at times, change styles at times, ask Singler to play some 3. Life will go on. Right now, Duke has 12 recruited players for this season. We're scheduled to have 12 next year. That's pretty amazing them, because not one member of that group is a schlub.

If people treat every game like this, the board isn't going to survive. Yeah, I mean that.

I just got tingles ... Jumbo overreactions mean the season is close or already started. I love this time of year.

[heyman25]

Brandon Knight and Harrison Barnes are in the radar.Boynton is still a possibility. Barnes can play 3 positions. I am not worried at all about Duke Basketball. Duke hoops is in good hands.
I am worried about my portfolio and the state of the US Economy and the global economy. General Motors may go bankrupt and the nation of Iceland 300000 population already is. There was a Duke women's soccer team member that I think played goalie and has graduated that was Icelandic.

Unlike Duke basketball the US government is in uncharted waters. I think that is what we should be worried about.

[Jumbo]

I just got tingles ... Jumbo overreactions mean the season is close or already started. I love this time of year.

"Overreaction." Interesting. Would this (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=202285&postcount=7)qualify?

[houstondukie]

Brandon Knight and Harrison Barnes are in the radar.Boynton is still a possibility. Barnes can play 3 positions. I am not worried at all about Duke Basketball. Duke hoops is in good hands.
I am worried about my portfolio and the state of the US Economy and the global economy. General Motors may go bankrupt and the nation of Iceland 300000 population already is. There was a Duke women's soccer team member that I think played goalie and has graduated that was Icelandic.

Unlike Duke basketball the US government is in uncharted waters. I think that is what we should be worried about.

Barnes and Knight are class of 2010. Boynton is class of 2009. As far as I know, Duke is not recruiting any other guards (or players for that matter) for 2009.

[skitelz]

i think that nick russell might still be in the picture....but i really dont know that for sure

[Edouble]

Guards
1999: Avery, Langdon, Carawell, Maggette, James
2000: Carawell, James, Williams
2001: James, Williams, Duhon
2002: Williams, Duhon, Ewing, Jones
2003: Duhon, Ewing, Jones, Redick, Dockery, *Buckner*
2004: Duhon, Ewing, Redick, Dockery
2005: Ewing, Redick, Dockery, Nelson, *Davidson*
2006: Redick, Dockery, Nelson, Paulus, Pocius
2007: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson
2008: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius (hurt), Scheyer, Henderson, Smith

Four guards is pretty much our standard. Buckner and Davidson are included for their glimpses of glory.

Dunleavy?

And how can you say that four guards is our standard when we've had (by your count) four guards or less four out of ten times? 40% of the time is definitely not a "standard". I'd say around 85-90% is when you get into the general area of a "standard".

[BD80]

I can't handle this. Every time Duke lands a recruit, let alone when Duke misses on one, someone is already looking ahead, trying to figure out what is "missing." ...

Duke has 12 recruited players for ... next year. ... not one member of that group is a schlub.


Oh God!!! WE DON'T HAVE ANY SCHLUBS! Are there any schlubs still available? We must have schlubs!

I am entirely with you Jumbo, why on this festive day do we start a sky is falling thread?

I believe Coach K may have a recruiting plan in place, and may be aware of what his depth chart might look like.

Kenny Boynton is the key to recruiting for next year's team. If Kenny comes, we will go with more 3 guard line-ups, but without him, we will go bigger. Maybe Coach K is holding a place open for Kenny and is not recruiting over the players already in the fold?

Worst case scenario, Ryan or Mason can play the "2" and help handle the ball. But short of a serious injury, four guards is plenty, particularly the four guards at issue.

Does Andre Buckner have any eligibility left?

[Kedsy]

Oh God!!! WE DON'T HAVE ANY SCHLUBS! Are there any schlubs still available? We must have schlubs!

I am entirely with you Jumbo, why on this festive day do we start a sky is falling thread?

I believe Coach K may have a recruiting plan in place, and may be aware of what his depth chart might look like.

Kenny Boynton is the key to recruiting for next year's team. If Kenny comes, we will go with more 3 guard line-ups, but without him, we will go bigger.

Worst case scenario, Ryan or Mason can play the "2" and help handle the ball. But short of a serious injury, four guards is plenty, particularly the four guards at issue.

Does Andre Buckner have any eligibility left?


Well said, BD. This is getting silly.

[VaDukie]

Dunleavy?

And how can you say that four guards is our standard when we've had (by your count) four guards or less four out of ten times? 40% of the time is definitely not a "standard". I'd say around 85-90% is when you get into the general area of a "standard".

Sorry ED. I wouldn't consider Dunleavy a guard any more than I would Singler or Kelly. Excellent perimeter skills in a forwards body. Not a guard.

[micah75]

Only 4 guards next year? Hey, on the bright side, maybe my man Marty Pocius finally gets some quality PT as a 5th year senior!

[loran16]

Guards
1999: Avery, Langdon, Carawell, Maggette, James
2000: Carawell, James, Williams
2001: James, Williams, Duhon
2002: Williams, Duhon, Ewing, Jones
2003: Duhon, Ewing, Jones, Redick, Dockery, *Buckner*
2004: Duhon, Ewing, Redick, Dockery
2005: Ewing, Redick, Dockery, Nelson, *Davidson*
2006: Redick, Dockery, Nelson, Paulus, Pocius
2007: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson
2008: Nelson, Paulus, Pocius (hurt), Scheyer, Henderson, Smith,



Four guards is pretty much our standard. Buckner and Davidson are included for their glimpses of glory.


Don't forget JORDAN davidson when you make your 09 list. He's a total beast. :-P

[RepoMan]

Why, after four years, can't we spell "Pocius?" This just keeps going on and on and on and on and on.

I love the sound of good humor in the morning. Thanks, Jumbo.

[jimsumner]

Geez. Always something to worry about. And if Duke does sign Kenny Boynton, someone would be complaining about Duke having too many guards. And if Duke were to miss on Boynton but sign someone like Nick Russell, then someone would complain about giving a valuable scholarship to a player who's not a consensus top-50.

Duke has received four committments from blue-chip prospects in the last few months and is involved with a half-dozen more and the sky is still falling. When will Krzyzewski learn to spend more time reading message boards?

And spelling Pocius correctly? C'mon. We still haven't figured out Shelden Williams' first name and it's only been six years since he signed an LOI with Duke.

[BlueintheFace]

Does Andre Buckner have any eligibility left?

If we are playing SMU this season, then this question is of paramount importance!!!

[RockyMtDevil]

New Sticky for the board, anytime you spell Pocius, Czyek, Shelden, Plumlee, Jon Scheyer, et. al. wrong you must take a drink.

I'm hammered right now.

[jimsumner]

Czyek?

[Ignatius07]

To be fair, he did say he was hammered. I prefer to think of it as irony!

[Carlos]

Kyle Singler is the kind of guy who could well play 4 positions (2-5) in a single game. I'm not terribly worried about having Smith, Scheyer, and Williams as the only "guards" on the team - especially when you consider that those are three really talented guards, all of whom can plan multiple positions.

[BD80]

Does Andre Buckner have any eligibility left?

If we are playing SMU this season, then this question is of paramount importance!!!

I still think we should petition the NCAA for continued eligibility for Andre to be our perennial 12th man. I think we'd have a good case based upon his contribution to the sport and to humanity. Even if it was one brief moment, it will live in my heart forever as one of the greatest moments in college basketball (behind, of course, Hill to Laettner).

[RockyMtDevil]

Bottoms up!

[El_Diablo]

Kyle Singler is the kind of guy who could well play 4 positions (2-5) in a single game.

Singler can actually play seven positions.

[Kedsy]

Singler can actually play seven positions.

Watch it, this is a family board.

[El_Diablo]

Watch it, this is a family board.

Watch what? :confused:

Whatever you inferred from my comment....it's not what I was implying.

[Edouble]

Sorry ED. I wouldn't consider Dunleavy a guard any more than I would Singler or Kelly. Excellent perimeter skills in a forwards body. Not a guard.

As everyone knows, Dunleavy was a guard who grew. He has no less guard-type offensive skills than Carrawell, Jones or Scheyer who are all G/F types, and who made your list. Dunleavy is sort of like a taller, more offensively skilled Scheyer. Your list is made up of "pure" guards (i.e. Duhon, Ewing, Dockery) and more swing-type players (i.e. Jones, Cwell, James). I can't see Dunleavy being excluded from this list.

[El_Diablo]

As everyone knows, Dunleavy was a guard who grew. He has no less guard-type offensive skills than Carrawell, Jones or Scheyer who are all G/F types, and who made your list. Dunleavy is sort of like a taller, more offensively skilled Scheyer. Your list is made up of "pure" guards (i.e. Duhon, Ewing, Dockery) and more swing-type players (i.e. Jones, Cwell, James). I can't see Dunleavy being excluded from this list.

But doesn't that kind of prove his point? That we don't need a bunch of "pure" guards if we have other skilled offensive wing players (such as Dunleavy, Singler, and Kelly) who can hit shots from the outside?

[BlueintheFace]

Watch it, this is a family board.

I like the direction this thread is going. One of my favorite things about DBR threads is the potential for a topic to be hijacked by a sarcastic comment that inevitably leads to things like- sexual innuendo or pontifications on how Andre Buckner is the current team's missing link. God Bless DBR

[jimsumner]

But Andre would give Duke that crucial fifth guard. How could that be off-topic?

Back to the point. I have no problem with four guards. Not to ratchet up the panic level but Pocius can graduate next spring and has the option of packing his bags and going back to Europe.

Duke has had some very, very good teams with only three pure guards. But those teams have tended to have someone like Billy King, Grant Hill, Chris Carrawell, or Mike Dunleavy, i.e. a forward who could credibly and efficiently move to the back court should circumstances dictate. Can Singler do that? Will he even be around?

So Duke misses on Boynton, Singler and Henderson go NBA, Pocius goes back to Europe, several players get hurt or sick and it's yikes!!

So, yes, posit a lot of worst-case hypothetical scenarios and things can fall apart. But that's true of pretty much any team, any sport, any season.

So why worry about any of this? The real, actual, 2008-'09 college-basketball-season is about to start and that's not a hypothetical scenario. Can't come soon enough.

[CameronCrazy'11]

But doesn't that kind of prove his point? That we don't need a bunch of "pure" guards if we have other skilled offensive wing players (such as Dunleavy, Singler, and Kelly) who can hit shots from the outside?

No question that a Smith, Scheyer, Singler, Kelly, Plumlee line-up would be effective on offense. The concern is that we might not be able to defend teams that went with 3-guard or (gasp) 4-guard line-ups. However, I think Singler at least can guard the 3 effectively. I mean, he's an NBA 3 right, and it doesn't seem to make sense that an NBA three wouldn't be able to play 3 in college.

[Duvall]

No question that a Smith, Scheyer, Singler, Kelly, Plumlee line-up would be effective on offense. The concern is that we might not be able to defend teams that went with 3-guard or (gasp) 4-guard line-ups. However, I think Singler at least can guard the 3 effectively. I mean, he's an NBA 3 right, and it doesn't seem to make sense that an NBA three wouldn't be able to play 3 in college.

Well, aside from the fact it's two different sports. A college 3 has to spend much of his time guarding shooting guards, and I'd be surprised if Singler manages that any time soon.

Of course, *none* of this is going to happen any time soon, so I'm not sure why we're talking about it.

[jimsumner]

"No question that a Smith, Scheyer, Singler, Kelly, Plumlee line-up would be effective on offense. The concern is that we might not be able to defend teams that went with 3-guard or (gasp) 4-guard line-ups."

Well, if it's a problem, you take out one of the bigs and put in Elliott Williams.

[yancem]

And spelling Pocius correctly? C'mon. We still haven't figured out Shelden Williams' first name and it's only been six years since he signed an LOI with Duke.

Not to mention that his name is all over the Duke record books and he had his jersey retired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Carlos]

Well, aside from the fact it's two different sports. A college 3 has to spend much of his time guarding shooting guards, and I'd be surprised if Singler manages that any time soon.

Of course, *none* of this is going to happen any time soon, so I'm not sure why we're talking about it.

All through his HS and AAU days Singler projected as a SF at the college level. It's because Duke needed him to play inside last season that most people don't recognize his perimeter skills.

[MChambers]

All through his HS and AAU days Singler projected as a SF at the college level. It's because Duke needed him to play inside last season that most people don't recognize his perimeter skills.

On offense, I have no doubt Kyle could be a college SF. But for Duke's defense, that might not be great. Lance, on the other hand, probably could do a good job as a defensive SF, but would struggle on the offensive end. Between the two of them, however, you could do it.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Kyle Singler is the kind of guy who could well play 4 positions (2-5) in a single game. I'm not terribly worried about having Smith, Scheyer, and Williams as the only "guards" on the team - especially when you consider that those are three really talented guards, all of whom can plan multiple positions.

You're assuming that Singler will return for the 2009-10 season. I hope it happens.

[Kedsy]

Watch what? :confused:

Whatever you inferred from my comment....it's not what I was implying.


I was joking.

[El_Diablo]

I was joking.

Yeah, I figured it was sarcastic, but you never know if there's no emoticonization.

Maverick.

[Kedsy]

Yeah, I figured it was sarcastic, but you never know if there's no emoticonization.

Maverick.


Yeah, that's me, along with my pal, Sarah Palin.

And I hope this doesn't make me a pariah on the board, but I'm philosophically and emotionally opposed to emoticons.

(Actually, I was about to use one at the end of that last sentence, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. My therapist and I are working on it.)

[Edouble]

But doesn't that kind of prove his point? That we don't need a bunch of "pure" guards if we have other skilled offensive wing players (such as Dunleavy, Singler, and Kelly) who can hit shots from the outside?

He never said anything about the pureness of guards, so I'm not sure that was part of his original point. Dunleavy could do far more than just hit shots from the outside though. Guys like Singler, Deng, and Battier are/were forwards who could shoot threes and put the ball on the floor for short drives. They're the type of players that are often described as forwards that can "step out and shoot". Dunleavy was not that kind of player. His ball handling abilities, especially where they were applied to one-on-one moves, and drives to the basket, were at a guard-like level. He was a player that was far more comfortable, in his element, and at his best, on the perimeter. In this capacity, Dunleavy had much more advanced guard-like qualities than Cwell, James, or Jones, but was left off of the list of guards, simply b/c he was too tall.

One of the key "themes" for the 1999-2000 team was that we were so versatile b/c Dunleavy could come in and play a number of positions. His ability to play backcourt positions was far more advanced than a player like Singler or Battier, because he played a guard position throughout high school. At any point in his Duke career, Dunleavy could come in and play in the backcourt, while Deng, Singler, Battier, etc. could not. I'll give you the point that Dunleavy was more of a wing player than a guard in college, but so were a lot of the guys on that list of "guards". If one is making a list of guards, one should either make it entirely of players that could only be considered guards ("pure" guards), or include ALL players that are guards and G/F combos (swing players). I think Dunleavy was the one player in the latter catagory to be left off the list, which enabled the poster to sqeeze out a few years with a seemingly low number of guards.

[houstondukie]

I can't handle this. Every time Duke lands a recruit, let alone when Duke misses on one, someone is already looking ahead, trying to figure out what is "missing." Why are we starting "what if" threads about 2009-10, when the 2008-09 season hasn't even started? Why are we already deciding who is leaving after this season? Why, after four years, can't we spell "Pocius?" This just keeps going on and on and on and on and on. It's amazing that people actually survived, let alone enoyed college basketball, prior to Internet Recruiting Age.

If Duke "only" has four "guards," next season, we'll deal with it. We'll go bigger at times, change styles at times, ask Singler to play some 3. Life will go on. Right now, Duke has 12 recruited players for this season. We're scheduled to have 12 next year. That's pretty amazing them, because not one member of that group is a schlub.

If people treat every game like this, the board isn't going to survive. Yeah, I mean that.

I started this thread a year ago and at the time was shot down by many people on this board. This is not a "I told you so" thread. I just wanted to revisit this because at the time, many were not concerned, but now it seems like the sky is falling.

[ice-9]

What's interesting is that you put up a warning post about "only" having 4 guards, when today we actually only have 2.

I think that's strong evidence that what happened was simply unpredictable. So let's give the coaching staff a break, because nobody even thought about foreseeing this.

[houstondukie]

What's interesting is that you put up a warning post about "only" having 4 guards, when today we actually only have 2.

I think that's strong evidence that what happened was simply unpredictable. So let's give the coaching staff a break, because nobody even thought about foreseeing this.

Fair enough, but many others then posted that Marty would not be back, so at the time, the possibility was we could only have 3 guards if we didn't land Boynton and Henderson went pro. You can make the argument, and many already have, that we should of been better prepared.

[Kewlswim]

Fair enough, but many others then posted that Marty would not be back, so at the time, the possibility was we could only have 3 guards if we didn't land Boynton and Henderson went pro. You can make the argument, and many already have, that we should of been better prepared.

Hi,

I am not sure that even if Coach K saw this coming he could just go after any guard out there. I believe that the admissions office has something to do with this too and who they will admit. So far kids Coach K goes out on a limb for have done (for the most part) really well at Duke (or had to transfer). However, perhaps he didn't see a kid he felt he could stick his neck out for (except for maybe John Wall who is by all accounts a good student). Thus, we were hampered not just by the transfers, but by who we had to select from.

GO DUKE!

[m g]

freaking out about "only" having four guards at that time did not make sense

1) 4 guards is enough
2) there was a very good possibility of getting another through recruiting
3) kyle singler may not be a guard, but he can definitely play SF

so yeah, people were right to shoot you down. guess you're back for seconds haha

[Kfanarmy]

freaking out about "only" having four guards at that time did not make sense

1) 4 guards is enough
2) there was a very good possibility of getting another through recruiting
3) kyle singler may not be a guard, but he can definitely play SF

so yeah, people were right to shoot you down. guess you're back for seconds haha


1. I don't think his original post was "freaking out," but rather simply stating a concern.
2. The concern pointed to what ultimately happened, attrition outside the normal signing and matriculation expected of 4 yr players.
A lot of times folks don't want to listen to reasonable warnings or can't react in any case. Timing seems more to have been the issue here, a lot of people wanted to stay in the moment of a recruiting success who would have later denigrated the concern with "why didn't you bring this up earlier" questions. silliness...the point demonstrated prescience and we can acknowledge that.

[m g]

The concern pointed to what ultimately happened, attrition outside the normal signing and matriculation expected of 4 yr players.


The concern was based on the possibility of Henderson going pro and Duke not landing Boynton. You can come up with a term that encompasses both that and the Williams/Pocius departures, but it's apples and oranges. I'm sure K was well aware that he might only have 4 guards, and was fine with that.

Let's say we had Williams, Pocius, Scheyer, Smith, and this apparently necessary 5th guard. Seth Curry comes to visit, Henderson's draft situation is still up in the air, and suddenly we don't have a scholarship to guarantee him. Would it have worked out? Maybe. But I think wasting scholarships on anticipating extraordinarily unlikely scenarios is a huge mistake compared to what you can do with one that's open at the right time.

Given his information, Coach K's decision to hold that scholarship for a Wall/Boynton/Curry type of player was the right one. Not that any of us should really question his recruiting or scholarship management practices in the first place.

[Kfanarmy]

The concern was based on the possibility of Henderson going pro and Duke not landing Boynton.
Given his information, Coach K's decision to hold that scholarship for a Wall/Boynton/Curry type of player was the right one. Not that any of us should really question his recruiting or scholarship management practices in the first place.

Easy there. I don't generally state an opinion on what Coach k and the staff do with respect to recruiting. I don't have the expertise. I'm simply recognizing that HoustonDukie raised a valid concern on the board that ultimately came to pass, period. His concern led to others to recognize that 4 could quickly become 3 available (that is why I said "pointed to"). I understand completely that the staff probably knew this. That doesn't mean they were here on DBR laying it out for the fans, and hence, speculation and concern arose. If folks can't discuss anything but what is known about retention and recruiting that takes away a significant amount of fun (or anxiety depending on personality) in guessing/predicting what the team will look like in the future and jawing about what should,could, will be done about perceived weakness.

[NovaScotian]

Given his information, Coach K's decision to hold that scholarship for a Wall/Boynton/Curry type of player was the right one. Not that any of us should really question his recruiting or scholarship management practices in the first place.

yes, god forbid we actually discuss the fate of this team on a discussion board about the fate of this team.

[houstondukie]

1. I don't think his original post was "freaking out," but rather simply stating a concern.
2. The concern pointed to what ultimately happened, attrition outside the normal signing and matriculation expected of 4 yr players.
A lot of times folks don't want to listen to reasonable warnings or can't react in any case. Timing seems more to have been the issue here, a lot of people wanted to stay in the moment of a recruiting success who would have later denigrated the concern with "why didn't you bring this up earlier" questions. silliness...the point demonstrated prescience and we can acknowledge that.

Thanks for helping make my point, Kfanarmy.

At the time I was "shot down" by many posters on this site, including Jumbo, who apparently "can't stand" posts like mine. All I was trying to do back then was bring up the very real possibility of Duke being very thin in 2009-2010 if we didn't recruit another gaurd and Henderson went pro. Henderson going pro has always been a real possibilty so that should not have been a surprise. I mistakenly assumed Marty would be the 4th guard, but others quickly pointed out that he was gone too, which should of made people even more concerned.

I was not "freaking out." See Jumbo's response to my post if you want to see freaking out. I just hope the next time a poster on this board presents an objective view on the Duke program, he doesn't get shot down with comments of "looking too far ahead" or "freaking out" or "Coach K will find a way." We are fans, and as fans we are allowed to speculate about these things.

[RockyMtDevil]

Thanks for helping make my point, Kfanarmy.

At the time I was "shot down" by many posters on this site, including Jumbo, who apparently "can't stand" posts like mine. All I was trying to do back then was bring up the very real possibility of Duke being very thin in 2009-2010 if we didn't recruit another gaurd and Henderson went pro. Henderson going pro has always been a real possibilty so that should not have been a surprise. I mistakenly assumed Marty would be the 4th guard, but others quickly pointed out that he was gone too, which should of made people even more concerned.

I was not "freaking out." See Jumbo's response to my post if you want to see freaking out. I just hope the next time a poster on this board presents an objective view on the Duke program, he doesn't get shot down with comments of "looking too far ahead" or "freaking out" or "Coach K will find a way." We are fans, and as fans we are allowed to speculate about these things.

You falsely assume that people who post on here live in the real world, where valid concerns can be voiced. This sadly doesn't happen here, and is the reason why Jumbo et. al. jumped all over you. It is ironic that your post was dead on, and even worse, your warning was the absolute best case scenario. If we saw this, you know the coaching staff did, which proves the point that there is no way we should be in this mess. But, God forbid anyone can bring up a valid concern and debate it with healthy conflict. Many of the moderators on this board have become petty tyrants.

[heyman25]

I don't think I will post any more here on this site. I will just read other fans comments. I agree with the above post but its not worth bothering to have an opinion.

[ACCBBallFan]

I don't have a problem with the concern raised in OP some time ago, nor with most of the resplies.

While concern is a remote possibility, with a limit of 13, you simply cannot staff for the highest demand lowest supply scenarios at every position, but have to strike a balance.

Somewhere in the litany of replies is the solution to what if Duke ends up with 4, 3, or 2 guards this season.

You do what Duke is going to do. If you have to, when Nolan or Jon is resting, Kyle plays SG and somebody else plays WF. When one of Nolan-Jon-Kyle is resting, you put your next best on ball defender in as WF defender even if he has zero Offensive skills at that posiiton, that being Lance or Olek.

Or you try to outscore them with a potential lesser wing defender by having Kelly or Mason play SF in traditional sense, as opposed to playing Lance or Olek in non traditional WF defender more like McClure, Jackie Manuel or Marcus Ginyard, as best they can.

Or you do both and Lance plays WF on Defense and PF on Offense while Kelly/Mason play SF on Offense and PF on defensive end. Just a switch froim prior conventional wisdom when that name was Singler instead of Mason/Kelly.

Except for foul trouble or injury you only have to do that for perhaps 10 MPG and most of the time you play Jon-Nolan-Kyle a freshman big Kelly/Mason and a jumbo center Z/Miles who has bulked up to 245, with Lance ready to step in wherever needed.

As was pointed out the other third sigma could have happened too and Duke would be back to having too many guards with Nolan, Seth, Jon, G, Marty, Elliott and Boynton/another 09 guard recruit plus Olek, two Plumlees, Lance, Z,

with the ripple effect being Lance takes away PT from Kelly/Mason who in turn take PT away from jumbo centers and Duke is again undersized at bigs relative to bulk and height.

Next season then a couple of [Kelly/Mason/Miles] are like freshmen since they did not play, Lance and Z and Jon graduate and possibly Singler and G definitely go to NBA all gone, no experienced bigs, yada, yada. Why doesn't Duke recruit bigs instead of so many guards ... business as usual on the Duke boards

but at least a lot of good thread material on why isn't Olek (Marty this year) getting PT, ditto for Mason/Kelly, why is Zoubek who happens to be Duke's best +/- guy playing so much etc.

At least this scenario offers some new possibilties. Looking forward to coach K, his staff, and the Duke players step up to the challenge.

[sagegrouse]

I hve been out of the country on an ecotour with my grandson for the past 12 days. Has there been any talk of Marty returning with an apparent guarantee of a spot in the rotation?

sagegrouse

[jimsumner]

It appears that Marty Pocius has signed with an agent, making him ineligible for further NCAA play.

[Bob Green]

I hve been out of the country on an ecotour with my grandson for the past 12 days. Has there been any talk of Marty returning with an apparent guarantee of a spot in the rotation?

sagegrouse

It has been posted that Pocius has signed with an agent and is therefore ineligible to return.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Now we only have three guards. Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer, and Jordan Davidson. Elliott left. *sigh*

[gumbomoop]

You do what Duke is going to do. If you have to, when Nolan or Jon is resting, Kyle plays SG and somebody else plays WF. When one of Nolan-Jon-Kyle is resting, you put your next best on ball defender in as WF defender even if he has zero Offensive skills at that posiiton, that being Lance or Olek.

Or you try to outscore them with a potential lesser wing defender by having Kelly or Mason play SF in traditional sense, as opposed to playing Lance or Olek in non traditional WF defender more like McClure, Jackie Manuel or Marcus Ginyard, as best they can.

Or you do both and Lance plays WF on Defense and PF on Offense while Kelly/Mason play SF on Offense and PF on defensive end. Just a switch froim prior conventional wisdom when that name was Singler instead of Mason/Kelly.

Except for foul trouble or injury you only have to do that for perhaps 10 MPG and most of the time you play Jon-Nolan-Kyle a freshman big Kelly/Mason and a jumbo center Z/Miles who has bulked up to 245, with Lance ready to step in wherever needed.

As was pointed out the other third sigma could have happened too and Duke would be back to having too many guards with Nolan, Seth, Jon, G, Marty, Elliott and Boynton/another 09 guard recruit plus Olek, two Plumlees, Lance, Z,

with the ripple effect being Lance takes away PT from Kelly/Mason who in turn take PT away from jumbo centers and Duke is again undersized at bigs relative to bulk and height.

At least this scenario offers some new possibilties. Looking forward to coach K, his staff, and the Duke players step up to the challenge.

Put me down for amens on pretty much all this.

And before commenting just briefly on ACCBBFan's useful, because concrete, scenarios, let me amen, as well, camion's comment [from thread "Available players," post #34]: "IMO, things aren't nearly as bad as some fear. We have some weaknesses to hide. We have some strengths to emphasize. Injuries could hurt us badly. That's a similar situation to most of the top twenty-five teams in the nation."

So, agreeing with ACCBBFan and camion, allow me to admit [for all 3 of us] that even we relative optimists cannot deny that (1) injury to NS, JS, or KS will be ruinous for however long said injury lasts, and (2) foul trouble for NS or JS will make winning very difficult against any solid opponent.

I do hope posters who disagree, who understandably think we optimists must be K-Duke-double-drunks [the way most posters used to be.....], will engage the actual substance of ACCBBFan's analysis.

Does s/he not make some plausible points? Not in all cases? OK, which of her/his points fail to convince? Where do you agree? Which point needs to be refined, because worthy but a bit off-kilter? Or, should you prefer, which specific point must be jettisoned entirely as certifiably loony?

As for camion's generalization, isn't it true for pretty much all teams save, perhaps, KU, Mich St, and UK?

So, tell ACCBBFan what you think, but specifically. I can almost guarantee s/he'll respond fairly and sensibly.

[NSDukeFan]

Put me down for amens on pretty much all this.

And before commenting just briefly on ACCBBFan's useful, because concrete, scenarios, let me amen, as well, camion's comment [from thread "Available players," post #34]: "IMO, things aren't nearly as bad as some fear. We have some weaknesses to hide. We have some strengths to emphasize. Injuries could hurt us badly. That's a similar situation to most of the top twenty-five teams in the nation."

So, agreeing with ACCBBFan and camion, allow me to admit [for all 3 of us] that even we relative optimists cannot deny that (1) injury to NS, JS, or KS will be ruinous for however long said injury lasts, and (2) foul trouble for NS or JS will make winning very difficult against any solid opponent.

I do hope posters who disagree, who understandably think we optimists must be K-Duke-double-drunks [the way most posters used to be.....], will engage the actual substance of ACCBBFan's analysis.

Does s/he not make some plausible points? Not in all cases? OK, which of her/his points fail to convince? Where do you agree? Which point needs to be refined, because worthy but a bit off-kilter? Or, should you prefer, which specific point must be jettisoned entirely as certifiably loony?

As for camion's generalization, isn't it true for pretty much all teams save, perhaps, KU, Mich St, and UK?

So, tell ACCBBFan what you think, but specifically. I can almost guarantee s/he'll respond fairly and sensibly.

I also agree with these two posts. Although we may have more problems with an injury to our guards than many of the other top 25. In which case, as ACCBBFan said, we would have even more weaknesses to hide and a few different strengths to highlight.

[Lulu]

Personally, I'm really looking forward to a big Duke for a change. It'll be a new experience for all of us and even the coaching staff I have to believe. There's certainly a lot we'll be able to learn, if not forced to learn. Who says mismatches have to be the other way around? Go Duke! It's gonna be interesting.

But mild shame on the mods here who quashed the talk about Elliot's potential departure, acting like his father's quite conditional quote, with clearly recognizable ambiguous phrasing, was the be all and end all to the situation and thus no other concerned Duke followers were even allowed to discuss the situation. I don't think anyone posted anything distasteful and all were wishing the best for him and his family whatever the circumstances.

[ACCBBallFan]

Personally, I'm really looking forward to a big Duke for a change. It'll be a new experience for all of us and even the coaching staff I have to believe. There's certainly a lot we'll be able to learn, if not forced to learn. Who says mismatches have to be the other way around? Go Duke! It's gonna be interesting. Good post, Lulu. I agree

[Turtleboy]

I don't think I will post any more here on this site. I will just read other fans comments. I agree with the above post but its not worth bothering to have an opinion.After a while it won't matter. They'll just start disappearing your posts without comment.



3,2,1 ...

[Devilsfan]

I don't care if we're big or small as long as the staff can put together a product (team) that can finally beat Carolina again. I don't want to digress to the decade of the seventies and let the heel supporters produce another tobacco road farce for hbo.

[Lord Ash]

I have seen the future!

(Courtesy of my xbox!)

So, I have over the years constantly updated by old NCAA basketball game to reflect the current Duke teams. Having removed Email from the 09-10 team I finally took the squad for a quick run.

It will be very, very, very interesting next year. Fatigue just happens. While it is nice that Jon has ridiculous endurance, it was EVER so tempting to remove the transfer status from Seth... :) Ryan Kelly got a lot of needed burn at the 3, as Kyle did split duty at the 3 and the 2. It is a very big team, and a monochromatic team... hopefully they vary the numbers a lot, because I had a hard time telling which guys were on the court at times in video game world!:) As long as Ryan is ready to really step up and play a lot of minutes, we will survive, but I think (based on 30 minutes of video game) that Ryan Kelly will be maybe the key component of next years team.

[COYS]

I have seen the future!

(Courtesy of my xbox!)

As long as Ryan is ready to really step up and play a lot of minutes, we will survive, but I think (based on 30 minutes of video game) that Ryan Kelly will be maybe the key component of next years team.

Haha, this is, of course, the best way to predict the future. My friend and I recently guided the USA soccer team to a world cup title beating Argentina 3-1 in the final . . . so obviously the videogame world will prove to be perfectly accurate since the World Cup result is so realistic :D.

Anyway, while I think Nolan's ability to take the next step and shoulder more of the scoring burden will be the most important step for Duke to be good, I agree that Ryan will have to step up big for Duke to take any big leaps next year. At some point, just like Gerald and Jon against Wake at home this past season, we're just going to have someone step up and outscore a hot-shooting opponent. Singler will be even better. Scheyer will be better. Nolan will hopefully be a lot better. But at some point, having Ryan hitting from all cylinders from outside will be the extra push we need to beat a good team on their good night. Of course, this could also be Mason scoring from the blocks or the high post, but I think that the three point threat that Ryan brings will be absolutely necessary in some games and sorely missed if it's not there.

[DukeBlood]

Haha, this is, of course, the best way to predict the future. My friend and I recently guided the USA soccer team to a world cup title beating Argentina 3-1 in the final . . . so obviously the videogame world will prove to be perfectly accurate since the World Cup result is so realistic :D.

Anyway, while I think Nolan's ability to take the next step and shoulder more of the scoring burden will be the most important step for Duke to be good, I agree that Ryan will have to step up big for Duke to take any big leaps next year. At some point, just like Gerald and Jon against Wake at home this past season, we're just going to have someone step up and outscore a hot-shooting opponent. Singler will be even better. Scheyer will be better. Nolan will hopefully be a lot better. But at some point, having Ryan hitting from all cylinders from outside will be the extra push we need to beat a good team on their good night. Of course, this could also be Mason scoring from the blocks or the high post, but I think that the three point threat that Ryan brings will be absolutely necessary in some games and sorely missed if it's not there.

I feel we need one of the Mason's more so then Kelly to step up. IMO. We will have Kyle to hold down the 3. However are post play is still a question mark. Perhaps this years biggest questions mark. However it would be nice if Kelly would be as good as advertised come in and provide quality minutes at the 2 and 3.

Its tough to predict the future but Nolan, Kyle and Jon wont hesitate to shoot from distance, and they have had decent numbers from beyond the arc. Not trying to over-step your post, J ust feel Kelly wont be as needed as say Miles/Mason/Lance or Brians ability to take over. I hope you aer right and he does become a animal :)

[mgtr]

So, the problem is that we don't have enough little players next year? Can you imagine a coach like Rick Pitino (who I admire) complaining about this? Larry Bird? There are coaches who would die to have our problems. So we have some bigs who learn to handle the ball -- and this is a problem because????
As long as we have five guys who will put their hearts and souls into the game ( a la Singler and Scheyer) we will be fine. If the rest of the team is taller than average, that will be an advantage. Would we be even better with Hendo and Williams? yes, of course. And, if pigs had wings ... we would be better with Deng, Patterson, Monroe, Superman, and Mighty Mouse. But, next year we will play the players that we have on our team, and I expect we will do very well. I don't know if we will be a final four team or if we will win a national championship, but I expect we will be in the hunt -- which is all I ask.

[micah75]

I don't know if we will be a final four team or if we will win a national championship, but I expect we will be in the hunt -- which is all I ask.

I don't even ask that much. In fact, I'm not sure it's fair to ask anything other than that the team gives its all and leaves everything out on the floor. I'm gonna root and cheer for these guys through thick and thin, even if we should have a down year and barely make it into the NIT. I don't think it will come to that though, just sayin'. I'm looking forward to watching me some tall ball. Can't wait for the season to start. I'm hoping to see Olek get 5+ mpg, although if he doesn't, I trust that it will be the best thing for the team.

Hoping that we avoid the injury/flu/mono bug. But even if we don't, and we're having to suit up the team managers, I will still love me some Duke Basketball and will cheer my team on, win or lose. Go Duke!!!

[SupaDave]

Isn't life fun when you can debate the abilities of McDonald's All-Americans? :)

[CDu]

I don't even ask that much. In fact, I'm not sure it's fair to ask anything other than that the team gives its all and leaves everything out on the floor. I'm gonna root and cheer for these guys through thick and thin, even if we should have a down year and barely make it into the NIT. I don't think it will come to that though, just sayin'. I'm looking forward to watching me some tall ball. Can't wait for the season to start. I'm hoping to see Olek get 5+ mpg, although if he doesn't, I trust that it will be the best thing for the team.

Hoping that we avoid the injury/flu/mono bug. But even if we don't, and we're having to suit up the team managers, I will still love me some Duke Basketball and will cheer my team on, win or lose. Go Duke!!!

100% agreed. I don't think we are going to realistically be in the hunt for a final four this year. I'll be pretty surprised if we make the sweet sixteen this year. But I'm quite sure the team will give it everything they have, and I'll keep hoping that the team exceeds my expectations.

And regardless, there is the very real possibility that 2010-2011 will bring us Barnes and an amazing recruiting class, which will accompany what hopefully is a very talented, deep, and experienced frontcourt.

So while I expect this to be a tough year and will be happy if we are a 7-seed or better in the tourney, the future is looking bright. And it'll be interesting to watch this year's team develop.