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Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 09:50 AM
Last year, many on this board were upset when we seemed to back off of Kevin Love. He seems like he is going to be a great player, who has a fantastic skillset that the media raves over. He is sweeping up the National Player of the Year Awards.

Thank god we backed off him. This kid will be an absolute Cancer in the locker room at UCLA next year. Look at the comments he made on CNN.com regarding having to split Oregon Player of the Year awards with a kid (ours) whose team beat his twice, including in the state finals.

Also, KL needs to take himself a lot less seriously. These national high school player of year awards are usually based not solely on performance but on comportment, scholastic achievement, likeability, etc. Mayo is better, Rose probably is, same with Gordon. Mayo has a history of discipline problems, Rose talked openly of trying to find a way around the rule requiring kids to go to school, and Gordon was at the epicenter of a distasteful recruiting quagmire, so Love is all that is left.

Remember that something similiar happened to McBob his Sr year in HS and he whined and moaned about it, a pattern that would sadly repeat itself. Expect more of this from Love.

Love sounds like the type of kid who could get 30 shots a game and then complain loudly to the media that he did not get 35 shots. He will blame everyone but himself for a bad play, loss, etc. It is very telling that none, and I mean none, of the kids who have ever played with him on an AAU team (including last summer's which is considered to have been one of the best ever) even considered going to school with him despite the widely held belief that Love was most responsible for their success.

Nest year, he will have great numbers, and UCLA will not seriously compete for a NC, even if everybody comes back (they won't). K dodged a nightmare here.

here is the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/kevin_armstrong/03/26/love.moore/index.html

Patrick Yates

Cameron
03-27-2007, 10:26 AM
You know I come out here to New York and I get the McDonald's national player of the year award," says Love, who averaged 34 points, 18 rebounds, and six assists this season. "I also find out that I have won the Naismith Award, the Wooden Award, and the Parade player of the year awards. Back home in Oregon, though, I only tie for state player of the year with Kyle Singler. Go figure.

What an a**. Could he be anymore full of himself? That is unreal.

texasdevil06
03-27-2007, 10:33 AM
Couldn't agree more on Kevin Love. He is a heckuva player, though. Thanks for the link.

Having spent 2 weekends watching Singler and Love in a dozen AAU games, both together and on separate teams, I've got news for you Mr. Love....Singler is every bit as good as you are. Actually, I think he's better but that's JMO.

ChrisP
03-27-2007, 10:41 AM
I just read that article and he didn't come across nearly as bad as I thought he would from reading the comments in this thread. I mean, he's an 18 year old kid, he's going to some things we might consider stupid or at the very least, immature. Whatever. If this article is the worst thing we can find to complain about, then I guess we have become a bunch of whiny fans.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-27-2007, 11:00 AM
"I just read that article and he didn't come across nearly as bad as I thought he would from reading the comments in this thread. I mean, he's an 18 year old kid, he's going to some things we might consider stupid or at the very least, immature. Whatever."


"As the twig is bent, so the tree is inclined."

Love, Ima

Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 11:32 AM
I just read that article and he didn't come across nearly as bad as I thought he would from reading the comments in this thread. I mean, he's an 18 year old kid, he's going to some things we might consider stupid or at the very least, immature. Whatever. If this article is the worst thing we can find to complain about, then I guess we have become a bunch of whiny fans.

This is the latest in a long string. In an earlier article (no links), when asked about his exercise routine, he stated that his work outs were "secret." (Like Barry Bonds's workouts were classified. Not implying he is juiced, but that is strange. Usually high school athletes can't shut up about their workouts).

Love has a history of having a Dad who is a terrible sports parent -- see Burgess's dad for a reasonable comparison.

Also, and I follow recruiting closesly, but lack the insider connections of Watzone or Jumbo (feel free to weigh in) but I cannot remember any teammate at any of the AAU or Shoe Camps ever being complimentary towards this kid. Nothing bad is ever said, but silence can be a statement in and of itself.

If this article was the first red flag, I would not have mentioned it. But it is the latest in a long list of incidents that make me think this kid is a me-first (actually, a me-only) player who will put up big numbers on underachieving teams.

When he leaves school for the pros next summer, I think we will really start to hear that he was not well liked by his teammates.

Patrick Yates

texasdevil06
03-27-2007, 11:50 AM
"As the tree is bent, so the tree is inclined."

This story may interest you: STAN LOVE (http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5285)

The frustrating aspect of this is that the young man is very much a team player between the lines. Having said that, I wouldn't want any part of this if I were a coach.

SoCalDukeFan
03-27-2007, 11:59 AM
1. If I were almost unanimously considered the best high school player in the United States, then I would wonder why I was not considered the best high school player in Oregon.

2. In college Love will be coached by Ben Howland. My understanding is that Howland does not take any nonsense from anyone on his teams. I doubt if Howland will allow Love to be a distraction.

3. Love looks like a great high school player to me. I also think he will be a great college player. He is big and has great hands. He will be able to overpower most college big men, then catch, then make the short shot.

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

SoCal

Chicago 1995
03-27-2007, 12:11 PM
The bullet we dodged in regards to Love is that he didn't go to UNC.

He'll be better than Hansbrough, and, at least in Carolina Blue, he'd be at the FT line just as much.

freedevil
03-27-2007, 12:14 PM
This is the same Howland that offered Love a retired UCLA player's jersey number should he come to his school. Howland will be dealing with plenty of this kid's ego.

Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 12:15 PM
..individually. I think his team (1 and done barring trully catastrophic injury) will be a top 25-10 (depending on who comes back) team all year, and then fizzle in the 2nd or 3rd round of the NCAAs. My point was never that he would not be great. Merely that UCLA will not seriously challenge for the NC next year.

I personally do not care about individual stats. I could care less if any Duke player ever has a great individual year unless that is accompanied by team success (to me that means being competitive in the elite 8 at a minimum. Maybe I am spoiled, but high expectations are a must to sustain excellance). Seriously, who here really cares about individual stats or achievments?

Look at Durant at Texas. What has he really done for their program if he leaves this year. No Conf title (regular season or tourney), and an appearance in the round of 32. Next year, TX will have to alter their entire scheme if he leaves, meaning they probably won't have any significant success next year either. Stat-stuffers are only worth it if they push a team to greatness. Otherwise, they are not worth the effort.

Also, he is unanimously regarded as the 2-5 best player in the U.S. As I mentioned, these POY awards are never given to kids who have major discipline problems (Mayo), are percieved as unduly mercenary (Rose), or if their is any negative stigma attached to them (Gordon Recruiting feud). Duhon, McRoberts, and Battier were all National Players of the year, and they were very good to excellant players to be sure, but does anyone believe they were the best nationally. Battier wasn't the best player in his own recruiting class (Brand) and Duhon was clearly not as good as some of his classmates on the court. They were both well spoken kids who were polite, non-thuggy (whatever that means, but no "thuggish" player ever wins HS national POY), and they were academcially minded kids going to one of the Flagship college programs.

Last year, Oden swept the awards instead of Durant, who is clearly a superior individual talent at thie point in their careers, namely because Oden was a stable kid who gave the right answers while playing for a single public high school his entire career. Durant played at three different prep-schools and was percieved as mercenary at each stop. Pure ability on the court is not the only reason a player gets NPOY in HS. Sad (or maybe not), but true. Do not get caught up by Love's awards. Virtually no rankings still have him at the top, and some have him out of the top 5. That is why his comments were so ludicrous.

Love will be great (check that: post great numbers), no doubt. And Duke will have a much better team in March, when it counts.

Patrick Yates

ItalianDevil
03-27-2007, 12:38 PM
From what I've seen on YouTube (FWIW) Love won't be one and done IMHO. He seems to be a better version of Tyler Hansbrough, with slight better vertical than him. His hands seem to be a lot better than Mr. Hans's ones, actually. Anyway I don't think he will ever achieve Hansbrough toughness and focus, nor he'll have a bright future in the League one day.
His dad's behaviour reminded me of Ken (or Barbie?) Burgess as well.
That said, I'm glad he didn't pick the Holes and I'm also glad we picked Kyle.

GO DEVILS!!!!!!

Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 12:40 PM
The bullet we dodged in regards to Love is that he didn't go to UNC.

He'll be better than Hansbrough, and, at least in Carolina Blue, he'd be at the FT line just as much.

You are right about this, although this was never really a danger. Roy loves to run, and Love was clear early on that he wanted a team that played physical, half-court basketball, which is why he chose UCLA. The fact that UCLA is thin on talent next year, at least down low, thus opening up nearly unlimited shots for KL, MAY have played a small part in his decision.

That said, Roy has enough talent in place to possibly (probably) overcome the chemistry problems that KL might create and make a serious run at the NC. UCLA does not have that next year (barring everybody comming back to be KL's sidekick). Roy would have liked to have KL, to be sure, but I never felt like Roy put the full on push for KL. It was almost like Roy knew he had to be seen pursuing someone, and that someone was KL. If he came great, but I do not think Roy killed himself going after this kid (Much like K). Maybe they knew, or at least suspected something.

For Howland, Love was a much bigger get, the first real recruiting Coup under Howland regarding a kid with a national rep, espeically a type of kid who is a prototypical big man in Howland's system. Almost a near must get for UCLA, and I feel like UCLA promised him shots, minutes, and instant focus point of team status from Day one.

UNC would never offer anyone that, just like K wouldn't.

Patrick Yates

Kewlswim
03-27-2007, 12:43 PM
The bullet we dodged in regards to Love is that he didn't go to UNC.

He'll be better than Hansbrough, and, at least in Carolina Blue, he'd be at the FT line just as much.


Hi,

That's what I thought this thread was about. I am glad he isn't down the road from Duke.

GO DUKE!

Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 12:45 PM
From what I've seen on YouTube (FWIW) Love won't be one and done IMHO. He seems to be a better version of Tyler Hansbrough, with slight better vertical than him. His hands seem to be a lot better than Mr. Hans's ones, actually. Anyway I don't think he will ever achieve Hansbrough toughness and focus, nor he'll have a bright future in the League one day.
His dad's behaviour reminded me of Ken (or Barbie?) Burgess as well.
That said, I'm glad he didn't pick the Holes and I'm also glad we picked Kyle.

GO DEVILS!!!!!!

He is slightly bigger, stronger, more skilled, and has a better leaping ability. My god, Hans's size is his only weakness at 6-9 and 240. KL runs 6-10 and 255. Whereas Hans is undersized for PF, KL is the prototypical PF in the pros, with a better skill set to match, as well as being 3-5 years younger. With the individual numbers he will put up (even as the team dissappoints), the pros will be salivating.

KL has all but admitted that he is one and done.

Patrick Yates

A-Tex Devil
03-27-2007, 12:47 PM
Look at Durant at Texas. What has he really done for their program if he leaves this year. No Conf title (regular season or tourney), and an appearance in the round of 32. Next year, TX will have to alter their entire scheme if he leaves, meaning they probably won't have any significant success next year either. Stat-stuffers are only worth it if they push a team to greatness. Otherwise, they are not worth the effort.


At the very least, Durant kept a string of tourney appearances alive that UT wouldn't have had had he not been there this year. UT was younger than the Michigan fab five teams and not nearly as talented. If Durant's not stuffing the stat sheet, Texas is a below .500 team.

There are gonna be alot of one and doners coming through with the new rule. Some will be positive influences and some will be negative. I don't think you'll find a single Horns fan that think Durant was a negative influence on this team in the way people in the thread are portraying Love to potentially be. People are disappointed in the season's results, but I don't know a single one that regrets Durant coming through for just the one year.

crimsonandblue
03-27-2007, 01:04 PM
Wow. What Durant did for Texas was make them a viable top 20 team for a year, bring loads and loads of attention to burnt orange basketball, and bridge the gap from losing all their scoring and rebounding to a reloaded team next year that may be better than this year's team with Durant.

Texas would have been just another mediocre Big XII team without Durant. With him, they were fun to watch, played an exciting brand of basketball, and nearly managed to win the Big XII regular season and tournament.

Did he do for Texas what Laettner did for Duke? No. But how many Laettners and Battiers has Duke had? And would Laettner have been a Laettner in today's environment?

I'd take Durant for one year in a heartbeat. I'm not sure Love is worth it, but given the opportunity, I bet Duke would have taken that risk.

Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 01:57 PM
Did Durant improve Texas? Sure. Would they have had a worse year without him? Sure? Would they have made the tourney without him? Probably not.

How will next year without him be different than this year would have been?

Sure, other players will have a years experience, weight training, etc. But guess what? Those other players are going to have a harder time scoring now that the opposition D no longer has to throw a 2-3 man net around Durant, who was quite adept a scoring anyways or passing out of it. Texas will have to impliment an entirely new gameplan next year, and it will take time for the players to get used to it.

Texas may take some lumps next year without Durant. They may have taken some lumps without him this year, but they would have been better prepared for next year.

Think long term people. If the one and done doesn't deliver in his one year, he may leave behind a decimated team the next. OSU, and KS have great classes coming in next year. UNC had a stable base of talent, and will still be top-25 next year if TH, BW, and TL go pro.

How will TX be any better next year than they would have been this year. They simply staved off a rebuilding (not reloading) year for 1 year, with nothing to show for it.

As for Comparing Durant to Laetner, a 4 year player, what a joke. You are comparing a freshman to perhaps the most accomplished (from a team results standard) player in the modern era.

Lets compare Durant to his classmates and other one and doners:

Oden: Conf. Champ (Reg Season and Tourney), Final Four (perhaps beyond)
Wright: Conf Champ (shared reg season, tourney) elite eight
Carmello: National Championship
Deng: Conf Championship and Final Four

Of those four, only Carmello really compares to Durant, because when he left, the team was still talented but young. They had a few years of less than steller results, but at least they had something to show for it.

Patrick Yates

3rdgenDukie
03-27-2007, 02:05 PM
KLove was an admitted huge Duke fan. He is one of the top 2-3 big guys in the country. Duke was/is in obvious need of a post presence. K never seriously pursued him.

You do the math. Something spooked the HELL out of K. It wasn't the 1-and-done nature - Josh could easily have been that, and Greg Monroe may be. It wasn't grades - Love is qualified. It sure isn't lack of athleticism - that hasn't stopped K recently;)

My guess is that KLove is a total egomaniac, and quite a few of his quotes seem to point in this direction. Dissatisfied with splitting State POY with Singler, whining about lack of attention from K. He even made noises about joining Beasley and Mayo at Kansas State - WTF? My guess is that his father is an even bigger jackass, what with the 'fire the coach' crap, and his playing shoe companies off one another.

Would he have been worth the risk? We'll find out. Given K's experiences in the past decade with these types of situations, and knowing what they can do to team chemistry, I'll trust K on this one.

socaldukie
03-27-2007, 02:24 PM
FWIW--KL also had the "situation" with Nike a year or so ago. I don't recall the specifics. But, K made comments that the Love family didn't agree with.

bhd28
03-27-2007, 02:25 PM
Patrick,

Note, though, that Durant didn't have the offense or defense geared around him. There have been a number of articles about how great Durant's numbers would be if they ran a bunch of plays for him. The reason he was so impressive is that he did things in the flow and without having the offense directed towards him scoring (ala JJ or Adam last year). I saw several interviews and articles on that.

That said, him being what he was may have kept others on that team from taking a leadership role or asserting themselves more. Texas shouldn't, however, have to change their offense next year because Kevin leaves. They just won't have someone to bail them out.

Also, I think your view has to take into account that it was possible (unlikely but possible) that Durant could have led Texas to a great-8 or final 4. It didn't happen, but it was possible. I mean I am not sorry JJ and Shelden stayed for their senior year. If they had not, the 2006-2007 team may have been stronger this year, but it was worth it for the year (2005-2006) with them and to take the shot for a NC. It didn't happen, but it was a fun ride. Similarly, I think having Durant around was probably a positive for Texas athletics. Will the team next year be better than if he hadn't been there this year? Probably not, but he brought a lot of attention to the program. Also, another great "1 and done" might see the success Durant had at Texas and more strongly consider them. If that player is added to an already strong team (not one decimated by early defections like Texas was this year) then it could be a NC team.

Final point is that gearing a team towards an obvious 1-and-done player probably isn't smart for the long run most of the time (if he isn't part of an overall great recruiting class or seen as a 'final piece')... but getting a player like Durant who can be a lone stud for even a year is usually going to be worth it IF it is a good kid (which it looks like Durant was) and you don't have to completely change your style for them (which Texas didn't).

A-Tex Devil
03-27-2007, 02:30 PM
Did Durant improve Texas? Sure. Would they have had a worse year without him? Sure? Would they have made the tourney without him? Probably not.

How will next year without him be different than this year would have been?

Texas may take some lumps next year without Durant. They may have taken some lumps without him this year, but they would have been better prepared for next year.

Patrick Yates

Not to hijack the thread -- but it speaks to the larger point about the influence of one and doners -- Texas will be very good next year without Durant. Mark my words. And a lot of that has to do with Durant being at Texas for this one year.

For instance, DJ Augustin doesn't come to Texas w/o Durant here. He has star potential and hopefully will learn from his lemon of a USC game. Also, there's a certain bench player named Dexter Pittman who nobody really knows about yet (kinda like Big Jelly with more talent and softer hands -- and down 90 pounds since high school). While he unfortunately couldn't be red shirted this year, Durant's presence allowed the coaches to work with him on conditioning, etc. without forcing him into games he wasn't ready for. A lot of very smart basketball people think this kid will be a very good player - think Eric Williams at Wake. I'm not sold yet, but I'm not a smart basketball person.

That's just the tip, which doesn't include the recruiting boost it gives Texas locally -- and even on the east coast. UT has a very good (not great) class coming in next year -- but it's the current crop of juniors where they will reap a huge benefit.

Durant did a lot for Texas basketball this year and going forward at a program level. I'm not sure a lot of one and doners, besides maybe Carmelo, can say the same thing.

3211
03-27-2007, 02:48 PM
did Kevin Love go to the same high school as M. Dunleavy?

Clipsfan
03-27-2007, 03:00 PM
You are right about this, although this was never really a danger. Roy loves to run, and Love was clear early on that he wanted a team that played physical, half-court basketball, which is why he chose UCLA. The fact that UCLA is thin on talent next year, at least down low, thus opening up nearly unlimited shots for KL, MAY have played a small part in his decision.

That said, Roy has enough talent in place to possibly (probably) overcome the chemistry problems that KL might create and make a serious run at the NC. UCLA does not have that next year (barring everybody comming back to be KL's sidekick). Roy would have liked to have KL, to be sure, but I never felt like Roy put the full on push for KL. It was almost like Roy knew he had to be seen pursuing someone, and that someone was KL. If he came great, but I do not think Roy killed himself going after this kid (Much like K). Maybe they knew, or at least suspected something.

For Howland, Love was a much bigger get, the first real recruiting Coup under Howland regarding a kid with a national rep, espeically a type of kid who is a prototypical big man in Howland's system. Almost a near must get for UCLA, and I feel like UCLA promised him shots, minutes, and instant focus point of team status from Day one.

UNC would never offer anyone that, just like K wouldn't.

Patrick Yates

Patrick, I normally enjoy your posts quite a bit as they seem to be fairly well thought out and explain that thought process, but I have to disagree with some of what you're saying in this thread. Now, this may just be that I'm as much a UCLA homer as a Duke homer, but I have no idea why you think that a team that went to the finals last year, are at least in the final 4 this year, and will not lose much while gaining quite a bit in terms of players would slip to being a top 25 team next year?

Have you heard something I haven't heard? I would guess that Arron Afflalo is going to the pros after this year, given that he tested the water last year and has had a good enough season that his stock is as high as it will most likely ever be. Otherwise, everyone should return (and as there are no seniors, no one will graduate). They get some great recruits, including Love. Where is the sudden decline?

Chicago 1995
03-27-2007, 03:25 PM
Patrick, I normally enjoy your posts quite a bit as they seem to be fairly well thought out and explain that thought process, but I have to disagree with some of what you're saying in this thread. Now, this may just be that I'm as much a UCLA homer as a Duke homer, but I have no idea why you think that a team that went to the finals last year, are at least in the final 4 this year, and will not lose much while gaining quite a bit in terms of players would slip to being a top 25 team next year?

Have you heard something I haven't heard? I would guess that Arron Afflalo is going to the pros after this year, given that he tested the water last year and has had a good enough season that his stock is as high as it will most likely ever be. Otherwise, everyone should return (and as there are no seniors, no one will graduate). They get some great recruits, including Love. Where is the sudden decline?

I think Patrick's argument centers around Love and his meddling Dad ruining the chemistry at UCLA and turning them from a team that gets more out of the sum total of their parts than most to one that gets less.

In making that argument, I think Patrick is reading too much into one stray comment from Kevin and that his Dad is pretty hands on in Kevin's development, and isn't giving nearly enough credit to Ben Howland for the position in which he's put UCLA, and for the type of coach and leader Howland is.

FWIW, I'd have been perfectly fine seeing Love come to Duke. His dad wouldn't be the first "involved" Dad with which K's dealt. Heck, he wouldn't be the only one on this team. Love's skilled. He plays hard. He's got a mean streak. Frankly, we could use a little arrogance like Kevin's got.

SoCalDukeFan
03-27-2007, 03:27 PM
UCLA has no seniors on scholarship. Affalo will probably go NBA, but he is outside player. How is UCLA going to be "thin on talent next year, at least down low." Right now they are in the Final Four and even without Love will have the same inside talent next year.

Which inside players do you think are going pro?

SoCal

GDT
03-27-2007, 04:09 PM
This story may interest you: STAN LOVE (http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5285)

Wow, I didn't know the relation to Mike Love.

gw67
03-27-2007, 04:50 PM
A couple of thoughts after reading this thread.

Stan Love played for the Bullets many years ago (I believe he was a first round draft choice from Oregon). From TV and newspaper interviews, he came accross as a laid back kid who was more interested in music than basketball (His cousin is lead singer for Beach Boys.). He played for a few years and then disappeared. I would not have guessed that he would be a pushy parent but strange things happen to some parents who have sons who are good athletes.

I coached Babe Ruth and Legion baseball and assisted with a travel team for a couple of years. I was able to follow kids from their early teens until they left for college and, without exception, those kids who earned scholarships had pushy parents. None were as nasty as Stan Love, but I spent many an hour explaining to parents why their son batted 7th or played left field or only played 1/2 game. These were my neighbors and parents of my sons' friends so things never got out of hand but they were not shy about letting me know when they were not happy.

There have always been pushy parents (G-man's dad) but the advent of AAU ball and travel teams and the explosion of national recruiting guru's has really brought them out in force. Many have a financial and emotional investment in their kids and they try to exert some influence. As a result, kids change teams and schools until the parents find a place where their youngster is treated like they want. I don't see it changing any time soon.

gw67

Patrick Yates
03-27-2007, 04:58 PM
Afflalo is a first team AA. When you lose an AA, you tend to take a step back, unless a Wright Level talent is coming in at the same position.

I am not following UCLA that closely, but it was my understanding that their front line was nothing special, merely cabable. Beyond Mbah a Moute, the ceiling is not that high for the other players.

Also, KL is not going anywhere and adapting to a system. The system will adapt to him, or else, from everything that we have seen. KL will take the place of someone older than him, and that doesn't always sit well. Affllalo is a scoring threat and a great defender, and that is hard to replace, even by committee.

Basically, this year, UCLA has to be beaten, they do not screw up (or rarely). They have reached the FF by playing good D and not making mistakes, taking bad shots, etc. Outside Luc, who is good but not great, the post is OK, and I do not see them getting a lot better. When KL starts dominating the stat line and media attention, I forsee problems.

Also, I think the PAC-10 as a whole, which was weak at the end of the season (UCLA's mini struggles at the end, much like FL's were the result of having clinched early and then losing focus), will be much stronger next year, which will translate into more losses for everyone, UCLA included, which will drive down their ranking, much like the ACC this year.

Also, regarding the TX points, Devil, you may be right. But you must admit, that defenders will no longer have to worry about Durant and will be able to concentrate on the guy they are guarding without keeping an eye out for KD.

Gee, what other team do we know that recently lost a great scorer but had good talent returning that struggled this year? Duke, that's who, and Durant was more potent that JJ (and rebounded like Williams) You must agree, that losing Durant is more than just his stat line. He was a lifeline, a go-to late in the shot clock our when TX needed as basket. Psycologically, that is hard to replace, especially when you just spent an entire season of getting into the give it to Durant when it counts mindset.

Also, if the other guys were so talented, by late in the season those kids may have stepped up, thus preventing the bad year you say KD prevented.

Patrick Yates

Clipsfan
03-27-2007, 05:25 PM
Patrick - Just a couple very quick responses to your last post: Duke struggled because it lost more than just JJ, which might have been hard enough as the offense often ran through his shooting. They also lost Shelden. I think that losing 2 first team AA on whom the team had relied for a couple years and through whom the entire offense ran has a bigger impact than losing one really good player who often went long stretches without even touching the ball unless he got a rebound. Barnes refused to call plays for Durant most of the time.

As for UCLA, I've watched every game and probably know the players better than you do, having seen them play in person numerous times. We will definitely suffer with the loss of Afflalo, although there are multiple good players who can step up and contribute in his place. I think his defense will be most missed, although he's salso hown a great knack for hitting pressure shots, and getting his own shot. Thankfully Collison can get shots off as the shot clock expires, and guys like Westbrook were great scorers in HS. I'm not sure if we're going to go smaller next year with a combo of Collison and Westbrook at guard, or go bigger with Shipp stepping down to the 2 and Love stepping in as PF or C. If Collison leaves, which is possible, that would change all of this. If you want to make a bet as to whether UCLA is a top 10 team next year, I'll be interested in making it as soon as the draft situation is resolved. Given that Duke may struggle next year as well, I'm probably going to be pinning my hopes of a NC on UCLA once again (like both this and last year). Being in Indianapolis was very painful last year, hopefully Atlanta will treat my Bruins better.

dukemsu
03-27-2007, 08:47 PM
Did Durant improve Texas? Sure. Would they have had a worse year without him? Sure? Would they have made the tourney without him? Probably not.

Lets compare Durant to his classmates and other one and doners:

Oden: Conf. Champ (Reg Season and Tourney), Final Four (perhaps beyond)
Wright: Conf Champ (shared reg season, tourney) elite eight
Carmello: National Championship
Deng: Conf Championship and Final Four

Patrick Yates

Kind of a semantic point, but I'd put Conley in right next to Oden. They are a longstanding duo, and in many ways, Conley's been every bit as big a contributor as Oden.

dukemsu

Patrick Yates
03-28-2007, 09:00 AM
True,

Conley has had at least an equal (if not more profound) impact than Oden. However, he is not seen as likely to leave this year, nor was he a projected one-and-done type player. All the players I listed were at or near the top 2-3 players in their respective classes, wereas Conley was solidly in the teens. When OSU recruited him, they did so in the sincere belief that they would get at least 2 years out of him, whereas with the players I mentioned the colleges should have reasonably expected them to bolt after 1 year, or at least not have been that greatly surprised at said bolting, despite what the kid may have said during the year.

With TX, they knew going in that they had to max out Durant for the 1 year they were likely to get him.

Back to Love, tonight in the AA game he could well be huge. If he looks like a monster, members of this board should sleep on posting about the kid. Rememer, his impact will be more detrimental in the long run.

Patrick Yates

Chicago 1995
03-28-2007, 09:22 AM
Rememer, his impact will be more detrimental in the long run.

I'll take that bet.

Classof06
03-28-2007, 03:37 PM
I'd like to see someone corroborate this, but if Ben Howland really promised Love a retired UCLA number, then I just lost a lot of respect for him. As has been noted, Howland grew up on the West Coast during John Wooden's days and was a huge UCLA fan, so I imagine he has more respect for the history of the program than that. Furthermore, this is only his second or third year at UCLA; who the hell is he to be un-retiring jersey numbers for a kid who hasn't even played one college game? I need to see more to believe that...

goodchristian
03-28-2007, 10:37 PM
I'd like to see someone corroborate this, but if Ben Howland really promised Love a retired UCLA number, then I just lost a lot of respect for him. As has been noted, Howland grew up on the West Coast during John Wooden's days and was a huge UCLA fan, so I imagine he has more respect for the history of the program than that. Furthermore, this is only his second or third year at UCLA; who the hell is he to be un-retiring jersey numbers for a kid who hasn't even played one college game? I need to see more to believe that...

You are gullible.

gus
03-29-2007, 04:22 AM
I coached Babe Ruth

Wow, GW- you're a lot older than I expected.

SoCalDukeFan
03-29-2007, 02:40 PM
I have now seen Love play in the Oregon State Championship game and McD's game. In my opinion he is a great high school player and will be a great college player.

His attitude seems okay to me. His father is an issue. He may be one and done, can not say.

I think we lost a guy who could really help next year. My other guess is that UCLA fans will be very very happy with him next year.

SoCal

feldspar
03-29-2007, 02:45 PM
I think we lost a guy who could really help next year. SoCal

Agreed, but I tend to think that if Coach K quit recruiting a big man, knowing our need for a big man, there had to be a really good reason.

imagepro
03-29-2007, 03:33 PM
but boy is the rest right on!


The bullet we dodged in regards to Love is that he didn't go to UNC.

He'll be better than Hansbrough, and, at least in Carolina Blue, he'd be at the FT line just as much.

And man is it ever true........

johnnydakota
03-29-2007, 08:19 PM
Remember that something similiar happened to McBob his Sr year in HS and he whined and moaned about it, a pattern that would sadly repeat itself. Expect more of this from Love.
Patrick Yates

Pat, you have no idea what you're talking about.