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altitech
09-24-2008, 02:06 AM
Looks like some versatile OC footage just arrived...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GezBqnmZYTo

gep
09-24-2008, 02:12 AM
Looks like some versatile OC footage just arrived...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GezBqnmZYTo

Holy smokes!!!! If he can do half that much in full college competition, I'm sold:)

Edouble
09-24-2008, 02:27 AM
Wow, he needs a better nickname than OC, like the Polish Maelstrom or something.

dukemomLA
09-24-2008, 02:49 AM
I agree, he needs a new nickname!!! So...DBRers let's put our heads together and come up with something great. OC just doesn't cut it.

2535Miles
09-24-2008, 02:59 AM
OMG OMG OMG is it basketball season yet? Olek has some serious hops. I am really looking forward to seeing him take his game to the next level. Wow!

RainingThrees
09-24-2008, 07:25 AM
Those Highlights were insane!!

DUKIECB
09-24-2008, 08:45 AM
All I could do was sit there and smile as I watched that.:)

I know he is a little unrefined for lack of a better word, but with that much raw talent I think he could really contribute right away. Especially with his size since we have a need for some big bodies down low. Can't wait to find out!

SMO
09-24-2008, 08:52 AM
I agree, he needs a new nickname!!! So...DBRers let's put our heads together and come up with something great. OC just doesn't cut it.

How about "The Power Pole" or the "Polish Power"? Or even the "Killer Kielbasa"?

moonpie23
09-24-2008, 09:06 AM
as long as he plays like that.....he is welcome to borrow mine for awhile...


The Dream Assassin.

dyedwab
09-24-2008, 09:18 AM
...at the very least, it looks like Olek could be really fun to watch over the next few years...

...can't wait to see him in Duke blue

ForeverBlowingBubbles
09-24-2008, 11:27 AM
We could change the Ole Chant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCyLlECOTDs) to Olek! Olee Olee Ole Oleee (goal)

Olekk Olek olek olek olekkk oooolekkk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnFLK4iBcok&feature=related

Dr. Rosenrosen
09-24-2008, 01:32 PM
We could change the Ole Chant to Olek! Olee Olee Ole Oleee (goal)

Olekk Olek olek olek olekkk oooolekkk


I kinda like that!

Man, what I am most excited to see is him going up strong on the inside. I get a sense we won't see many layups from him. And maybe his enthusiasm will carry over to guys like Zoubek who could use a little more attitude sometimes.

DevilDan
09-24-2008, 01:33 PM
OLEK is the MAN ! He will produce, it's just a matter of when he gets his turn. Bring on the season and GO DUKE !

balkan boy
09-24-2008, 02:51 PM
I have to say that I like how he uses both his left and his right hand -- I thought he was left-handed after that drive and finger-roll, but then it looked like he was shooting jumpers with his right....certainly the dunks came easily with the left or right or both....

RainingThrees
09-24-2008, 02:53 PM
All I want from Olek this season is for him to completely posterize Hansbrough w/out Hansbrough flopping. That would almost make an entire succesful season.

Kedsy
09-24-2008, 02:58 PM
All I want from Olek this season is for him to completely posterize Hansbrough w/out Hansbrough flopping. That would almost make an entire succesful season.

Without Hansbrough flopping? That's a tad unrealistic, don't you think?

And the sad thing is he'd get the call, too.

RainingThrees
09-24-2008, 02:59 PM
thats why just that would almost make a succesful season. :)

Edouble
09-24-2008, 03:05 PM
I have to say that I like how he uses both his left and his right hand -- I thought he was left-handed after that drive and finger-roll, but then it looked like he was shooting jumpers with his right....certainly the dunks came easily with the left or right or both....

McRoberts-esque

dukeimac
09-24-2008, 03:24 PM
The Czar (one having great power or authority) looks great.

Upside: he is athletic, gets up and down the court well, gets off the ground well, looks like he does a good job handling the ball.

Questions: The videos mainly showed his offensive ability what about defense? Reminds me of what we saw about King (raining 3's).

Does he have a mid range game? Saw a couple of 3's in there (long range).

Will he get the opportunity to slam the ball that much in the ACC? I think a guy like Henderson could control him but Henderson is a Dukie. :D

The videos only show him in games with guys smaller than him, that is no indication he could do anything against Hans. Can he guard a 6'10" guy? This video shows him guarding guys out at the top of the key but no physical defense.

Keep in mind highlite films are just that. Is there any videos out there that show his complete game, defense too?

I hope every incoming player is as good as their youtube films show them.

DevilDan
09-24-2008, 04:10 PM
I get what DUKEIMAC says ... will OLEK measure up in ACC play ? I sure hope so, we need his stuff. From what I have read, he puts out a vibe of electricity when he's on the court that our other four can feed off of.

I don't compare him with Taylor King... I watched TK during his CA prep career. All he (EVER) wanted to do was shoot, Shoot, SHOOT. The announcers would often allude to that during the FOX broadcasts of Mater Dei. At 6'6", he couldn't get off the shots in NCAA that he got off in HS. And to boot, he just never appeared to want to improve his game. So he went the way that he did. The transfer was good for both he and DUKE.

I don't get any such vibe from OLEK. His "nose-rim" mentality could produce game stats that look something like this: 5-6 minutes, 4 boards, 1 blocked shot, 1-2 steals, 3 fouls, and a couple of manufactured field goals (off dunks, putbacks, jumpers, etc.) Right now I'd take those stats and his energized, relentless play, and be happy he's a "DUKIE" (and wait for Dickie V to say those fateful words, "he has the chance to become a VERY SPECIAL player at DUKE" -- still haven't gotten a 100% read on that in the past 15 years -- HA!)

Bluedog
09-24-2008, 05:59 PM
We could change the Ole Chant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCyLlECOTDs) to Olek! Olee Olee Ole Oleee (goal)

Olekk Olek olek olek olekkk oooolekkk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnFLK4iBcok&feature=related

The only problem with that is some people already do that for Coach K.

Coach Kaaay Coach K Coach K Coach Kaaaaaay.... Coach Kaaaaay...Coach Kaaaay...<repeat>

dkbaseball
09-24-2008, 06:34 PM
The Czar (one having great power or authority) looks great.

Upside: he is athletic, gets up and down the court well, gets off the ground well, looks like he does a good job handling the ball.

Questions: The videos mainly showed his offensive ability what about defense? Reminds me of what we saw about King (raining 3's).

Does he have a mid range game? Saw a couple of 3's in there (long range).

Will he get the opportunity to slam the ball that much in the ACC? I think a guy like Henderson could control him but Henderson is a Dukie. :D

The videos only show him in games with guys smaller than him, that is no indication he could do anything against Hans. Can he guard a 6'10" guy? This video shows him guarding guys out at the top of the key but no physical defense.

Keep in mind highlite films are just that. Is there any videos out there that show his complete game, defense too?

I hope every incoming player is as good as their youtube films show them.

I've weighed in at great length on this after seeing him a dozen times in high school (see the threads Scouting report on Czyz and Czyz playing in D.C.). Here's a capsulized answer to your questions:

No, he can't guard post players when they have the ball down low -- doesn't know how to position himself and doesn't move his feet well enough. However, I think with coaching he can get much better at this, and he has excellent tools for the Duke pressure defense, with all the movement between the perimeter and paint that the bigs do.

He didn't make much use of a mid-range game in high school, but supposedly worked on it quite a bit before coming to Duke. I sure like the move where he takes one dribble with his left towards the key and goes up for an eight-footer.

Yes, he will slam the ball down on the heads of ACC players. I can't think of anybody in the league who will have the same combination of strength, bulk, hops and explosiveness.

quickgtp
09-24-2008, 07:11 PM
Would you prefer he posterizes Travel Hansbrough or Danny Green? Both would be nice, but if I have to pick, I say Green!

west_coast_devil
09-24-2008, 07:25 PM
Man, I despise Danny Green.... Down with Dancing Danny!

Just to keep with the thread... very excited about what OC can bring to the program. Go Duke!

mgtr
09-24-2008, 07:47 PM
Back to the new nickname. I suggested when he committed that if his name was pronounce "Sizz", the Sizzle was the obvious choice. However, if it is pronounced "Shiz" (probably closer), then Shazam would be nice. Now, if it is pronounced another way (and I would like to know), then I give up.
Personally, I like Shazam, or maybe Shazam!, a lot.

altitech
09-24-2008, 08:19 PM
Czyzzle is an interesting thought (pronounced "Chisel"). A nice edge to cut with yes?

quickgtp
09-24-2008, 09:37 PM
Sounds to me as if the players have already stuck with "OC." I think that name fits well.....

dukeimac
09-24-2008, 10:08 PM
Thanks DevilDan and dkbasketball for your feedback.

As I stated the highlite real is just that and you having seen him in high school and what he did there tells me a lot. I too hope he develops as with all the Duke players.

I wasn't comparing the Czar's game to King's, just that there were a few youtube videos of King and people got very excited about what those videos showed. And we saw what that got Duke.

I just hope who ever comes to Duke understands that they have to develop more of an all around game to survive. And for some that will take time but those who have developed a full game, although maybe not a great game, fit in a lot quicker.

I'm concerned fans get too excited by these videos and put these guys on pedestals and when they don't pan out the first year the player feels like they let the fans down. Some guys just don't want to be around that feeling and leave.

I hope they all can contribute some meaningful time but any of them stopping Hans is expecting way too much and sets a guy up for failure, at least in their eyes.

RainingThrees
09-24-2008, 10:14 PM
Definately hansbrough. I despise him traveling with no call and getting breathed on and hearing the whistle.

roywhite
09-24-2008, 10:29 PM
Definately hansbrough. I despise him traveling with no call and getting breathed on and hearing the whistle.

Hansbrough is still in college?

Yeah, yeah, I know, but really that was my first thought. The big lug Rocky was a hit the first time, and we admired his toughness and courage, but Stallone's subsequent versions were about as entertaining as Tyler IV will be. Leave the stage, please.

RainingThrees
09-24-2008, 10:32 PM
Rocky 4 was over the top but i really liked 2 and even though I don't like 3 how can you not like Rocky fighting Mr. T. Thats almost like Chuck Norris vs. Bruce Lee.

quickgtp
09-24-2008, 11:34 PM
Yes, I agree Rocky IV was a bit over the top, but you have to like the "I must break you" line. That was money.

I also agree that watching Rocky fight Clubber Lang, aka Mr. T, was great as well.....

altitech
09-25-2008, 05:00 PM
I've weighed in at great length on this after seeing him a dozen times in high school (see the threads Scouting report on Czyz and Czyz playing in D.C.). Here's a capsulized answer to your questions:

No, he can't guard post players when they have the ball down low -- doesn't know how to position himself and doesn't move his feet well enough. However, I think with coaching he can get much better at this, and he has excellent tools for the Duke pressure defense, with all the movement between the perimeter and paint that the bigs do.

He didn't make much use of a mid-range game in high school, but supposedly worked on it quite a bit before coming to Duke. I sure like the move where he takes one dribble with his left towards the key and goes up for an eight-footer.

Yes, he will slam the ball down on the heads of ACC players. I can't think of anybody in the league who will have the same combination of strength, bulk, hops and explosiveness.

Looks like he's got time to prove himself though. The video says he was 17 when the footage was made. How many of us were that athletic back then?

Is OC the youngest on the team this year?

DevilDan
09-25-2008, 07:48 PM
Youngest ? not sure ...

Meannest ? FOR SURE .

Go Olek .... GO DUKE !

stickdog
09-26-2008, 03:15 AM
Czyzam!

Jumbo
09-26-2008, 01:03 PM
This response is to no one in particular. It's also a point I've tried to make before, but apparently it's worth repeating. The expectations for Czyz right now are crazy. Haven't we seen this movie before? Player arrives at Duke with some incredible physical gifts. Looks great in pickup. Looks great in Blue/White game. Doesn't get much playing time. Fanbase gets all up in arms, wondering why he can't get off the bench. Why are we setting ourselves up for that again?

I'm all for enthusiasm, but it needs to be realistic. There's so much hype about Olek already, and it's only going to get crazier, because he'll probably shine in the Blue/White game, given the lack of depth, defense and structure displayed. Even if he misses seven defensive assignments, all anyone will care about are a couple of putback dunks, a wide-open three, and a shot he blocks into the third row.

Meanwhile, there are 57 things he has to learn as a freshman. There are huge areas in which he must improve. I respect dkbaseball's opinion quite a bit, but once again, I've gotten plenty of reports that Czyz's knowledge of what to do out there -- particularly on D and off the ball on O -- is really behind that of his teammates.

The last time I tried to post something like this, a couple of people got all bent out of shape, accusing me of telling them how to think, yada, yada, yada. So, hey, you can get yourself as excited as you want now. But if it's January, and Czyz is getting five minutes a game (or less), I don't want to hear the "Free Olek" chants. It's been hard enough with Marty. It was hard enough with other past players. I'm begging all of you to give Olek a chance to develop, to learn all the skills and tricks that will make him better, to round out his game. That's a slow process for any freshman, especially one as raw as Czyz. And I'm also begging you to let Coach K develop him as he sees fit. I'll tell you right now -- if he doesn't play much, there will be a darn good reason for it.

Root for him. Cheer for him. But don't expect anything from him just yet.

Indoor66
09-26-2008, 01:08 PM
This response is to no one in particular. It's also a point I've tried to make before, but apparently it's worth repeating. The expectations for Czyz right now are crazy. Haven't we seen this movie before? Player arrives at Duke with some incredible physical gifts. Looks great in pickup. Looks great in Blue/White game. Doesn't get much playing time. Fanbase gets all up in arms, wondering why he can't get off the bench. Why are we setting ourselves up for that again?

I'm all for enthusiasm, but it needs to be realistic. There's so much hype about Olek already, and it's only going to get crazier, because he'll probably shine in the Blue/White game, given the lack of depth, defense and structure displayed. Even if he misses seven defensive assignments, all anyone will care about are a couple of putback dunks, a wide-open three, and a shot he blocks into the third row.

Meanwhile, there are 57 things he has to learn as a freshman. There are huge areas in which he must improve. I respect dkbaseball's opinion quite a bit, but once again, I've gotten plenty of reports that Czyz's knowledge of what to do out there -- particularly on D and off the ball on O -- is really behind that of his teammates.

The last time I tried to post something like this, a couple of people got all bent out of shape, accusing me of telling them how to think, yada, yada, yada. So, hey, you can get yourself as excited as you want now. But if it's January, and Czyz is getting five minutes a game (or less), I don't want to hear the "Free Olek" chants. It's been hard enough with Marty. It was hard enough with other past players. I'm begging all of you to give Olek a chance to develop, to learn all the skills and tricks that will make him better, to round out his game. That's a slow process for any freshman, especially one as raw as Czyz. And I'm also begging you to let Coach K develop him as he sees fit. I'll tell you right now -- if he doesn't play much, there will be a darn good reason for it.

Root for him. Cheer for him. But don't expect anything from him just yet.

Thanks, Jumbo. I go crazy with the youtube basketball experts predicting great things from untried rookies. Jumps and Dunks alone do not make a great basketball player - especially at Duke!

Kedsy
09-26-2008, 01:13 PM
Root for him. Cheer for him. But don't expect anything from him just yet.

I also agree with Jumbo. If OC is good enough to get extended minutes then let's be pleasantly surprised.

Personally, I'm more amped up about E-Mail than OC, at least for this year.

roywhite
09-26-2008, 01:16 PM
This response is to no one in particular. It's also a point I've tried to make before, but apparently it's worth repeating.

Root for him. Cheer for him. But don't expect anything from him just yet.

Why you feel the need to scold us and tell us what to think or expect is beyond me. You've expressed your point of view. Fine.

Jumbo
09-26-2008, 01:23 PM
Why you feel the need to scold us and tell us what to think or expect is beyond me. You've expressed your point of view. Fine.

Well, it's really quite simple -- I'm a big fan of this website. And what has distinguised over the years is a more rational approach than almost any other counterpart. That's been eroding, and it bothers me. The fact that you take my post as "scolding" is telling, quite frankly. I'm simply pointing out all the reasons why we're getting ahead of ourselves and that if people start flipping out in January because Czyz isn't playing, it will be both irrational and incredibly annoying.

Wander
09-26-2008, 01:41 PM
I also agree with Jumbo. If OC is good enough to get extended minutes then let's be pleasantly surprised.

Personally, I'm more amped up about E-Mail than OC, at least for this year.

Psh. OC, E-Mail, whatever... Plumlee all the way man!

Seriously, am I the only one who expects more out of Plumlee this year than Czyz? Not to instantly cure our inside scoring needs, but to help out defensively and be a decent backup in the frontcourt.

Jumbo
09-26-2008, 02:03 PM
Psh. OC, E-Mail, whatever... Plumlee all the way man!

Seriously, am I the only one who expects more out of Plumlee this year than Czyz? Not to instantly cure our inside scoring needs, but to help out defensively and be a decent backup in the frontcourt.

I wouldn't be suprised at all if he made more of an immediate impact than Czyz. Not one bit.

dukeimac
09-26-2008, 02:29 PM
Well, it's really quite simple -- I'm a big fan of this website. And what has distinguised over the years is a more rational approach than almost any other counterpart. That's been eroding, and it bothers me. The fact that you take my post as "scolding" is telling, quite frankly. I'm simply pointing out all the reasons why we're getting ahead of ourselves and that if people start flipping out in January because Czyz isn't playing, it will be both irrational and incredibly annoying.

Exactly. I don't want to over hype anyone, it sets THEM up for a better chance of failure in your eyes and THEIRS. Be realistic!

I want every Duke player to excel and be the best but I'm not willing to set them up for an easy failure.

Believing in them is one thing but making them out to be better than slice bread in another thing.

The test of a true Duke player is someone who puts team / Duke first, plays defense and can contribute. From the video the Czar looks like a team player and can contribute but nothing shows he can play defense. I hope he is coming with it in mind he needs to play good defense to get time. As we have seen just scoring doesn't cut it.

I'm more shocked that people on a Duke site would jump in and make statements before they know all the facts.

Wow, seriously.

SilkyJ
09-26-2008, 03:23 PM
Psh. OC, E-Mail, whatever... Plumlee all the way man!

Seriously, am I the only one who expects more out of Plumlee this year than Czyz? Not to instantly cure our inside scoring needs, but to help out defensively and be a decent backup in the frontcourt.

And given the depth in our backcourt, he may even play more or have more of an impact than email. Not saying it will happen, but certainly could, largely based on our needs in the frontcourt compared to the needs in the backcourt.

dkbaseball
09-26-2008, 03:53 PM
This response is to no one in particular. It's also a point I've tried to make before, but apparently it's worth repeating. The expectations for Czyz right now are crazy. Haven't we seen this movie before? Player arrives at Duke with some incredible physical gifts. Looks great in pickup. Looks great in Blue/White game. Doesn't get much playing time. Fanbase gets all up in arms, wondering why he can't get off the bench. Why are we setting ourselves up for that again?

I'm all for enthusiasm, but it needs to be realistic. There's so much hype about Olek already, and it's only going to get crazier, because he'll probably shine in the Blue/White game, given the lack of depth, defense and structure displayed. Even if he misses seven defensive assignments, all anyone will care about are a couple of putback dunks, a wide-open three, and a shot he blocks into the third row.

Meanwhile, there are 57 things he has to learn as a freshman. There are huge areas in which he must improve. I respect dkbaseball's opinion quite a bit, but once again, I've gotten plenty of reports that Czyz's knowledge of what to do out there -- particularly on D and off the ball on O -- is really behind that of his teammates.

The last time I tried to post something like this, a couple of people got all bent out of shape, accusing me of telling them how to think, yada, yada, yada. So, hey, you can get yourself as excited as you want now. But if it's January, and Czyz is getting five minutes a game (or less), I don't want to hear the "Free Olek" chants. It's been hard enough with Marty. It was hard enough with other past players. I'm begging all of you to give Olek a chance to develop, to learn all the skills and tricks that will make him better, to round out his game. That's a slow process for any freshman, especially one as raw as Czyz. And I'm also begging you to let Coach K develop him as he sees fit. I'll tell you right now -- if he doesn't play much, there will be a darn good reason for it.

Root for him. Cheer for him. But don't expect anything from him just yet.

OK, I understand now that monitoring enthusiasm about recruits is a long-standing DBR convention, and I accept it. But a few points.

First, I don't see the problem in this case. I've read all the Czyz threads carefully, and the only person I can see predicting that he will start, or even see significant minutes is me. Even an enthusiast like Devil Dan talks in terms of the contributions he can make in a 5-minute stint. People seem to be getting excited about the possibility that he will posterize TH, but that's about it. I'll stand by my prediction that he will be starting and a major contributor before the season is over, and I'm perfectly willing to be considered naive if it doesn't happen. But I don't see anybody else's expectations about playing time being dashed.

Continued in next post...

dkbaseball
09-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Secondly, who are these incredibly gifted players who end up sitting early in their careers despite great expectations? I know Zoubs dropped 27 points in the bucket during the blue-white his freshman year, but his only gift is being seven feet, 280 lbs (not to rag on Zoubs, I just wouldn't classify him as a gifted athlete). Athletes play at Duke -- no exceptions that I can think of. There are these things called fast twitch muscles and strength and toughness and explosiveness. A handful of players have them in spades, and they have always thrived in the Duke system of organized mayhem.

Czyz's shortcomings have been well documented here. But those who insist he has a long way to go beg the question: Why, assuming he is not a dolt, can he not learn to position himself better and move his feet better in half court sets in two months instead of two years? He got virtually no coaching at all in high school in the half court game -- on offense a shoot-first point guard controlled the ball all the time, and on defense he wasn't coached to be aggressive in man-to-man or allowed to try to block shots, even coming from the weak side.

If K wants a tough, physical team in March, unlike the last few years, he will coach this kid up quickly. I don't know why it can't happen quickly.

DevilDan
09-26-2008, 04:19 PM
Great expectations? Mmmm... Not necessarily -- our season still revolves around our 4-man nucleus of returning players--who are very, very good. Of the three freshmen, OLEK has put a charge into some of us that is making us bleed a little more DUKE BLUE than I remember at this time last fall, or in '06.

If these guys add to our season, I'd be thrilled. OLEK and MILES have a chance to help our frontcourt--even IF it's just beating on Lance & Brian in practice, and making our returning players better. It looks like EWill can work his way into the mix of our outstanding G's & SF's, possibly sooner than the other two.

Two thoughts, to keep my enthusiasm in balance .... I remember watching the HS All-Star games and tapes of McRoberts (where his resume was an impressive run of dunks). Looking back much further, I remember watching a Virginia Tech player in warmups at the Greensboro Coliseum back in the early 60's, prior to a Duke game there. His pregame layups and shots were more like a human highlight film -- I thought we were in real trouble that night, but...... that player never even got into the game. All this came to mind, reading the last few posts.

But I do hope OLEK earns some game time. I just want to see what he can do ! Sure he'll make errors of omission, but his errors of commission (and some possibly great moments too) in this first year might be the building blocks for a solid future at a DEVIL. Yep, I'm optimistic ! GO DUKE !

Wander
09-26-2008, 04:25 PM
Secondly, who are these incredibly gifted players who end up sitting early in their careers despite great expectations? I know Zoubs dropped 27 points in the bucket during the blue-white his freshman year, but his only gift is being seven feet, 280 lbs (not to rag on Zoubs, I just wouldn't classify him as a gifted athlete). Athletes play at Duke -- no exceptions that I can think of. There are these things called fast twitch muscles and strength and toughness and explosiveness. A handful of players have them in spades, and they have always thrived in the Duke system of organized mayhem.


Pocius is quite athletic and has not seen significant playing time at Duke so far in his career. McRoberts is quite athletic and while he obviously saw significant playing time, he hardly "thrived" at Duke. And that's just in the past two years.

dkbaseball
09-26-2008, 04:36 PM
Pocius is quite athletic and has not seen significant playing time at Duke so far in his career. McRoberts is quite athletic and while he obviously saw significant playing time, he hardly "thrived" at Duke. And that's just in the past two years.

Being our best player in his second season doesn't qualify as thriving? For Marty, you need a more sophisticated definition of athletic. Yes, he can jump, but his lack of lateral quickness keeps him from playing the kind of defense Duke wants. I don't think any scout would size up someone who doesn't have good lateral quickness as an "athlete." He might be a little on the fragile side too.

altitech
09-26-2008, 05:59 PM
Czyz's shortcomings have been well documented here. But those who insist he has a long way to go beg the question: Why, assuming he is not a dolt, can he not learn to position himself better and move his feet better in half court sets in two months instead of two years?

I have to agree that perfecting the game under extreme pressure, rules and conditions and can only be taught through experience. Acceptance to Duke already signifies a certain skillset. It is the passion, determination, dedication and honor that shapes a player to court standards.

On the other hand, the term "dolt" seems rather harsh. If we examine past results to forsee real future potential, OC's history is secure. Unusual arial acrobatics, 2 state championships plus MVP of the 2008 Capital Classic polish his resume.

All Duke players should have the heart and skills to deserve time on the floor. All understand that some players are more instrumental in certain games than others. Coach K is the conductor that sets the season tone throughout the big dance and OC may either wait before playing a note or be part of the crescendo. However, let there be no doubt he is a powerful instrument in the band. If not in playing time, in passion making sure mates are challenged to make sure Duke keeps an edge.

I want to see the entire team to show off their gifts next season and push Duke's game to the limit including phenominal flash plays that fuel the 6th man. Woudn't that be fun?

dkbaseball
09-26-2008, 06:22 PM
On the other hand, the term "dolt" seems rather harsh. If we examine past results to forsee real future potential, OC's history is secure. Unusual arial acrobatics, 2 state championships plus MVP of the 2008 Capital Classic polish his resume.

Did you understand me to be implying he's a dolt? From what I've seen he's got a pretty good bball IQ, and very high motivation to learn from K. Let's keep the roles straight: I'm the wild-eyed optimist who thinks he's going to be a star, and sooner rather than later.

And you can add all-league in the N.C. summer pro-am to his list of credentials.

dkbaseball
09-26-2008, 06:23 PM
Pocius is quite athletic and has not seen significant playing time at Duke so far in his career. McRoberts is quite athletic and while he obviously saw significant playing time, he hardly "thrived" at Duke. And that's just in the past two years.

You're repeating your previous post, and not in any way responding to the qualifications I offered. But maybe they need to be ignored.

Edit: Oh, sorry, that is your previous post. My bad.

Jumbo
09-26-2008, 06:32 PM
Secondly, who are these incredibly gifted players who end up sitting early in their careers despite great expectations? I know Zoubs dropped 27 points in the bucket during the blue-white his freshman year, but his only gift is being seven feet, 280 lbs (not to rag on Zoubs, I just wouldn't classify him as a gifted athlete). Athletes play at Duke -- no exceptions that I can think of. There are these things called fast twitch muscles and strength and toughness and explosiveness. A handful of players have them in spades, and they have always thrived in the Duke system of organized mayhem.

Czyz's shortcomings have been well documented here. But those who insist he has a long way to go beg the question: Why, assuming he is not a dolt, can he not learn to position himself better and move his feet better in half court sets in two months instead of two years? He got virtually no coaching at all in high school in the half court game -- on offense a shoot-first point guard controlled the ball all the time, and on defense he wasn't coached to be aggressive in man-to-man or allowed to try to block shots, even coming from the weak side.

If K wants a tough, physical team in March, unlike the last few years, he will coach this kid up quickly. I don't know why it can't happen quickly.

Look, I'm well aware of how much you've seen Czyz and highlly you think of him. I hope against hope that everything you say turns out to be correct. Suffice it to say that I've heard different things and my expectations aren't nearly as high for an immediate impact. C'est la vie.

But, I also know that you've followed basketball enough -- and have enough perspective -- not to freak out if he doesn't play much. Sadly, that's not a quality that is shared in great quantities around here. You're asking for examples? The Marty Pocius Experience is three years old and shows no sign of a letdown. People went crazy over Henderson entering his freshman year. I told them Scheyer would start over him. Not many listened. We know how that turned out.

There are plenty of guys who just didn't meet expectations (Shav, Burgess, etc.) and others who barely played, yet fans constantly clammered to see (Casey Sanders, Pocius, etc.). Olek Czyz, like the rest of the freshmen, hasn't done anything at this level yet. And too many people are going to expect pretty amazing things out of him because of YouTube, an all-star game and a glorified pickup game known as a summer league. They, unlike you, might not show much perspective if/when he doesn't get much playing time. So, instead of arguing at that point that Czyz might not be deserving of playing time, isn't it better to recognize now that a) he has a lot to learn b) Duke is very deep this year c) he has a bunch of veterans in front of him and d) there's an extraordinary difference between college and high school, let alone college and summer league/all-star games/YouTube?

I don't think anyone wants legions of "Free Olek" posters screaming after a midseason loss who assume he's ready to be a major player because of an Internet video. And even you are already putting the onus on Coach K to "coach him up," with an argument that as much could be accomplished in two months as in two years. That's just silly.

Jumbo
09-26-2008, 06:36 PM
However, let there be no doubt he is a powerful instrument in the band.

I hope he is. But we simply have no idea if that's true yet. Proving yourself at the college level is completely different than anything you mentioned. Again, can't (as someone might put it) we just let Czyz run his own race?

dkbaseball
09-26-2008, 06:44 PM
Look, I'm well aware of how much you've seen Czyz and highlly you think of him. I hope against hope that everything you say turns out to be correct. Suffice it to say that I've heard different things and my expectations aren't nearly as high for an immediate impact. C'est la vie.

But, I also know that you've followed basketball enough -- and have enough perspective -- not to freak out if he doesn't play much. Sadly, that's not a quality that is shared in great quantities around here. You're asking for examples? The Marty Pocius Experience is three years old and shows no sign of a letdown. People went crazy over Henderson entering his freshman year. I told them Scheyer would start over him. Not many listened. We know how that turned out.

There are plenty of guys who just didn't meet expectations (Shav, Burgess, etc.) and others who barely played, yet fans constantly clammered to see (Casey Sanders, Pocius, etc.). Olek Czyz, like the rest of the freshmen, hasn't done anything at this level yet. And too many people are going to expect pretty amazing things out of him because of YouTube, an all-star game and a glorified pickup game known as a summer league. They, unlike you, might not show much perspective if/when he doesn't get much playing time. So, instead of arguing at that point that Czyz might not be deserving of playing time, isn't it better to recognize now that a) he has a lot to learn b) Duke is very deep this year c) he has a bunch of veterans in front of him and d) there's an extraordinary difference between college and high school, let alone college and summer league/all-star games/YouTube?

I don't think anyone wants legions of "Free Olek" posters screaming after a midseason loss who assume he's ready to be a major player because of an Internet video. And even you are already putting the onus on Coach K to "coach him up," with an argument that as much could be accomplished in two months as in two years. That's just silly.

I can agree with most of this, though I don't know why it takes so long to learn where to position yourself in half court sets and to move your feet better. The guys who sit for two years are typically the ones who have some physical limitation that they need to learn how to play around, not the ones who need a primer on fundamentals such as footwork.

And I can't agree that he's facing unusually strong competition for playing time. He's not trying for a spot in the perimeter rotation, where that would be the case. He's trying to get minutes in the post rotation, where his competition is Thomas, Zoubek, McClure and Plumlee. He's already much better than the others in the open floor game, and would contribute more offensively than the others right now, with the possible exception of Zoubs. If he can get a clue what to do in the half court game, and give good effort on the defensive end, I don't see how he stays on the bench.

I'd also point out that Nolan Smith, for one, doesn't agree with your assessment of the NC pro-am as a "glorified pick-up game." His comments were along these lines, and I paraphrase: "People were playing for pride and really getting after it; there was a lot of defense being played."

dukelifer
09-26-2008, 07:07 PM
If he can get a clue what to do in the half court game, and give good effort on the defensive end, I don't see how he stays on the bench.

One of the issues that Czyz has to deal with is that there is no real post star to learn from. He appears to have some strengths that the other "post" players do not have, but the learning curve of where to move on the court on O and D seems to be really steep in K's system. Czyz needs time- the big hope is that he and Plumlee will push Thomas and Zoubs to get much better than they have been to date. If both can have a breakout seasons- Duke could be a very tough out. Duke needs the veterans to be very good this year. The fact that Duke has good depth in practice is the big plus this season, IMO.

dukeimac
09-26-2008, 08:11 PM
Now the conversation is much better.

I think we can all agree, we hope great things for the Czar, and every in coming freshman. I hope he out shines every person he plays against in the ACC, I hope he schools them badly.

We just need to be realistic. Making "assumptions" that he will be great the day he puts on a Duke jersey is not realistic. Before any one thinks any player is a great player we should have some facts that point to it not just assumptions one makes off of a highlight video.

Otherwise, lets just hope for the best for them.

I want to know if he can playing defense; we all know to be a Dukie you have to be able to play defense. And that is a fact.

altitech
09-26-2008, 08:26 PM
Did you understand me to be implying he's a dolt? From what I've seen he's got a pretty good bball IQ, and very high motivation to learn from K. Let's keep the roles straight: I'm the wild-eyed optimist who thinks he's going to be a star, and sooner rather than later.

And you can add all-league in the N.C. summer pro-am to his list of credentials.

Actually it was based on the tone set from an earlier post about his footwork, midrange and post defence. To have ~10 rebounds, ~20 ppg and a 20-0 run likely implies he knows a little more than just having "No" defence skills. Since you mentioned it was based on personal experience, I assumed you had a low opinion of what you saw. Just mixed signals I guess.

Personally, I think he's a pretty interesting player.

kessler
09-27-2008, 03:17 PM
Czyzzle is an interesting thought (pronounced "Chisel"). A nice edge to cut with yes?

how about the czyzle sizzle pronounced (shizle sizzle)

kinda dumb but im just throwing out ideas

Verga3
09-27-2008, 08:47 PM
Anybody have a take on Olek's defensive fundamentals and intensity after watching the pro-am games at NCCU?

1Devil
09-28-2008, 11:45 AM
...And I can't agree that he's facing unusually strong competition for playing time."

My thought exactly. Thomas and Zoubek were the weak links last season, the latter certainly impeded by serious injury. Clearly, the bar has not been set very high for inside play. If Czyz could produce 8 points and 7 rebounds per game and play good defense, he'd be the starter. Same for Miles. Obviously, D is the key. (And to those who say Thomas is a great defender, remember that getting rebounds is a part of playing defense).

Jumbo
09-28-2008, 10:53 PM
My thought exactly. Thomas and Zoubek were the weak links last season, the latter certainly impeded by serious injury. Clearly, the bar has not been set very high for inside play. If Czyz could produce 8 points and 7 rebounds per game and play good defense, he'd be the starter. Same for Miles. Obviously, D is the key. (And to those who say Thomas is a great defender, remember that getting rebounds is a part of playing defense).

Quick quiz -- how many players in the ACC averaged at least 8 ppg and 7 rpg last year? And then how many freshmen? I'll plug the answer in white (so you can highlight it) in a bit, but this is exactly what I'm talking about in regard to expectations. 8/7 is a significant contribution, especially for a freshman. You make it sound like an easy task, as if he just has to do this minimal amount of work.


Answer: 8 players (Tyler Hansbrough, J.J. Hickson, James Johnson, James Gist, Jeff Allen, Trevor Booker, Uche Echefu and Jeremis Smith. Hickson, Allen and Johnson were the only freshmen.

Bob Green
09-28-2008, 11:15 PM
If Miles Plumlee and Olek Czyz combine for 8 pts and 7 rebs per game, I will be suprised. I agree with Jumbo in that some posters have unrealistic expectations for Czyz. I believe we need to slow down and allow Czyz time to adjust to the college game. He certainly has the potential to be an impact player at Duke, but that impact is most likely a year or two away.

1Devil
09-29-2008, 07:22 AM
If Miles Plumlee and Olek Czyz combine for 8 pts and 7 rebs per game, I will be suprised. I agree with Jumbo in that some posters have unrealistic expectations for Czyz. I believe we need to slow down and allow Czyz time to adjust to the college game. He certainly has the potential to be an impact player at Duke, but that impact is most likely a year or two away.

Well, Trevor Booker averaged 11/7.3 last season. It can be done. But point well taken. Someone who could average 6 ppg and 5 rpb could serve as a starter based on what we got last year.

elvis14
09-29-2008, 11:33 AM
I'm not sure what others are expecting but what I think after watching that video (and others) is that we have good kid coming in that has great athletic ability and will be fun to watch. My expectations are simple, I expect Olek to dominate by the time he's a senior! By then he'll have learned how to properly use all those wonderful natural abilities. As a freshman, I expect him to get minutes in garbage time and to provide an occasional spark off the bench. That's nothing against Olek, it's a testament to how deep are this year.

I can't wait, when do practices, scrimmages, games start? :D

elvis14

p.s. hail to the Redskins, hail victory!

DevilDan
09-29-2008, 05:01 PM
A pretty good take on OLEK by Elvis14--it kinda leveled me off a little in my hopes for quick input from OC... but, you know what? I'll stick with my wish for 5 mins/gm, with a couple of buckets, a blocked shot, a putback, a defensive stop, and a few boards. The reason? This guy has the RELENTLESS tag on him, which could lead to the above results thru sheer hustle (along with the 3 fouls I mentioned).

I also thought about a previous post, who mentioned the "weak link" last year being our frontcourt--it's hard to argue with that. I hope OLEK and MILES push the "incumbents" for minutes... if that happens, it can only be GOOD for US !

Finally, I read with interest the article on Lou Bello and his daughter. I was AROUND to watch that guy work--his officiating was solid, and his act was right up there with the Greatest Show on Earth. In those days (OOA the Dixie Classic era), it seemed like all the big games were worked by either LB, Red Mahalik, and/or Lou Eisenstein -- all of whom were a treat to see. I am happy to read his name here, after so many years. Also, he was a scream as a sports reporter on TV. One of his favorite lines (Example: the MLB score was Detroit 6, Boston 0) was to say, "aaaand, in Detroit, it's Tigers 6, and Bostonnnnnn ZIP !"

ANY and EVERY shutout game would get that patented ending ! ! ! What a riot ! ( uh, GO DUKE ! )