Southern California 35, Ohio State 3

[rockymtn devil]

I didn't want to hijack the gambling thread with a discussion of one particular game, so here's its own thread.

This game intrigues me for so many reasons (not the least of which is that I'm a Buckeye fan). Stewart Mandell at SI.com has a blog entry up about how weird it is to have the entire college football world hoping for the underdog to get killed. Apparently America loves an underdog, except when it's Ohio State.

As a fan, everything about this game screams that the Trojans should roll. Chris Wells will not play (maybe for the rest of the season:eek:). Ohio State was sluggish and uninspired last week and their vaunted O-line got beat time and again. Inconsistent QB and WR play and an inability to run the ball will often doom a team. USC doesn't lose at home, especially OOC and they impressed in their season debut.

But something tells me this game will be close. For starters, Ohio State has a very good defense and USC doesn't play a Florida-style spread that gives the Buckeyes trouble. USC also has a somewhat suspect offensive line and a QB that hasn't been hit like he will be on Saturday. Sanchez was great against UVA. But, let's be honest, the Cavs are terrible. In the '03 Fiesta Bowl, Ken Dorsey got hit and hit and hit hard all night long and it took its toll. Ditto for young Colt McCoy two years ago in Austin. I expect the same to happen to Sanchez.

I also think the Buckeyes have an offense up their sleeves. The play calling against Ohio was beyond vanilla. Tressell didn't go past the first column of the first page of the playbook. I expect lots of spread formations and a heavy dose of Pryor. The trio of running backs will not be asked to run between the tackles, but instead will be used as scat-backs, getting lots of touches in the short passing game. By playing this "Wells will play line" for two weeks, they've forced USC to prepare for a traditional OSU offense. They won't see it.

Finally, I think the seniors who chose to come back will make a stand.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If the Ohio State that played last week shows up, USC is going to mop the field with them.

[A-Tex Devil]

Despite the fact that I will bet on USC, I think OSU could make a game of it if one thing happens --- Terrelle Pryor (sp?) is as good as advertised.

Unless the OSU defense shuts down USC and keeps the game in the teens, Boeckman isn't going to win it for them. He's just like Krenzel from their national championship year, but with more mistakes.

I think the reason everyone is rooting against OSU is simply because many fans think the Big Ten is a second rate BCS conference not far above the ACC and Big East and want to put the final nail in that coffin.

I wouldn't go that far, but let's look at 2006. OSU and Michigan are number 1 and number 2. Everyone is high on both and think of OSU some kind of a juggernaut. Both teams get KILLED in their bowl games by UF and USC. And not fluky killed -- beat by much better teams killed. Then an OSU team that everyone knew was weaker than the year before gets to the national championship game. Some (not me) say by default. But I do think they were inferior to at least 5 other teams last year. I just don't have an argument with them playing the title game because they only had one loss, and no other BCS conference team could claim that.

But America didn't really want to watch the butt whooping they knew would occur that night against LSU.

So long story short -- SEC and Big XII fans especially (and Pac Ten fans to some extent) feel that OSU gets a break by playing the soft Big Televen schedule. I can't really disagree, but it's the system we've got, right?

Edited to say -- a lot of people think OSU's championship was a fluke due to the bogus pass interference. Again, not me, but just throwing that out there.

[rockymtn devil]

Despite the fact that I will bet on USC, I think OSU could make a game of it if one thing happens --- Terrelle Pryor (sp?) is as good as advertised.

Unless the OSU defense shuts down USC and keeps the game in the teens, Boeckman isn't going to win it for them. He's just like Krenzel from their national championship year, but with more mistakes.

I think the reason everyone is rooting against OSU is simply because many fans think the Big Ten is a second rate BCS conference not far above the ACC and Big East and want to put the final nail in that coffin.

I wouldn't go that far, but let's look at 2006. OSU and Michigan are number 1 and number 2. Everyone is high on both and think of OSU some kind of a juggernaut. Both teams get KILLED in their bowl games by UF and USC. And not fluky killed -- beat by much better teams killed. Then an OSU team that everyone knew was weaker than the year before gets to the national championship game. Some (not me) say by default. But I do think they were inferior to at least 5 other teams last year. I just don't have an argument with them playing the title game because they only had one loss, and no other BCS conference team could claim that.

But America didn't really want to watch the butt whooping they knew would occur that night against LSU.

So long story short -- SEC and Big XII fans especially (and Pac Ten fans to some extent) feel that OSU gets a break by playing the soft Big Televen schedule. I can't really disagree, but it's the system we've got, right?

Edited to say -- a lot of people think OSU's championship was a fluke due to the bogus pass interference. Again, not me, but just throwing that out there.

I sympathize with this and the perception is, to a certain extent, grounded in truth. The B10 has had several down years (although, this entire discussion emphasizes SEC victories over B10 teams and ignores the reverse; Wisconsin and PSU have done well in recent bowl games against the SEC; mediocre Michigan torched Florida's defense last year) but it's all cyclical. When SI recently did its conference ratings since the start of the BCS (1998), according to its methodology, the B10 was the best conference in America from 1998-2003. Since then its dropped.

What I don't like about this entire discussion is how people willfully choose to ignore the reality that no major team in American schedules OOC as aggressively as Ohio State. Since 1998, off the top of my head, I can think of OSU games against West Virginia, Miami, UCLA, Washington State (when they were top 10), Washington (when they were top 10), NCST (when they were supposed to be top 10), Texas, USC. In 1995 and 1996 they did a home and home with a still respectable Notre Dame. In the coming years, the Buckeyes play Miami, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, and Tennessee. You never hear about that.

Don't even get me started on the 2003 Fiesta Bowl :)

[A-Tex Devil]

I sympathize with this and the perception is, to a certain extent, grounded in truth. The B10 has had several down years (although, this entire discussion emphasizes SEC victories over B10 teams and ignores the reverse; Wisconsin and PSU have done well in recent bowl games against the SEC; mediocre Michigan torched Florida's defense last year) but it's all cyclical. When SI recently did its conference ratings since the start of the BCS (1998), according to its methodology, the B10 was the best conference in America from 1998-2003. Since then its dropped.

What I don't like about this entire discussion is how people willfully choose to ignore the reality that no major team in American schedules OOC as aggressively as Ohio State. Since 1998, off the top of my head, I can think of OSU games against West Virginia, Miami, UCLA, Washington State (when they were top 10), Washington (when they were top 10), NCST (when they were supposed to be top 10), Texas, USC. In 1995 and 1996 they did a home and home with a still respectable Notre Dame. In the coming years, the Buckeyes play Miami, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, and Tennessee. You never hear about that.

Don't even get me started on the 2003 Fiesta Bowl :)

I don't disagree. The Buckeyes have one off year last year with non-conference scheduling, and people call it a trend.

I think if it's not for the ridiculous love fest leading up to the OSU-Michigan game in 2006, followed by both teams bad bowls, this isn't as big a phenomenon. OSU was hyped in 2006 almost as much as USC in 2005 heading into that bowl game.

Also, OU is getting a similar rap in BCS games as OSU. If OU is a controversial at large invitee to the BCS this year, I guarantee you there will be a lot of hootin' and hollerin' as to why they are giving "Big Game Bob" and the land thieves another game to blow.

[wolfpackdevil]

USC will dominate the buckeyes tommorow night!
With a less than perfect Beenie Wells, and an OL that could barely beat Ohio last week, Ohio State will get there helmets shoved under the Coliseum saturday.

USC dominated there first game, and it is almost impossible to beat USC at the Coliesum.

USC wins this won with offense and defense, 42-14

[studdlee10]

USC has a ridiculous amount of talent and depth that not even OSU (which recruits incredibly well itself) can keep up with. On D, they have 4-5 guys who could be first round picks Maualuga, Cushing, Ellison, Mays, and Moala. That doesn't include guys like Galippo, Spicer, and Griffen who are finally getting a chance to play. That D will key in and stuff OSU's running game, with or without Wells. Boeckman has been miserable in big games against good D's, so going up against essentially an NFL D does not bode well for OSU.

[rockymtn devil]

USC has a ridiculous amount of talent and depth that not even OSU (which recruits incredibly well itself) can keep up with. On D, they have 4-5 guys who could be first round picks Maualuga, Cushing, Ellison, Mays, and Moala. That doesn't include guys like Galippo, Spicer, and Griffen who are finally getting a chance to play. That D will key in and stuff OSU's running game, with or without Wells. Boeckman has been miserable in big games against good D's, so going up against essentially an NFL D does not bode well for OSU.

For all I know, you're an NFL talent evaluator. I am not. This article, however, quotes SI's NFL talent evaluator. He disagrees with your assessment and even discusses OSU's NFL talent as compared to USC.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/08/26/cfb.mailbag/index.html

None of this means anything, of course. They still have to play the game. I stand by my earlier (albeit biased) hunch that a spread out Buckeye offense (a style which has given SC trouble--see Oregon last year) led by Pryor will surprise a lot of people.

[dukeballer2294]

It will be close. No way Benie stays outtta this 1. The reason OSU played horrible last week was becasue there best player was sitting on the bench. I say itll be 28-14 Usc with the defenses playing outstanding.


P.S. I am going who else?

[studdlee10]

For all I know, you're an NFL talent evaluator. I am not. This article, however, quotes SI's NFL talent evaluator. He disagrees with your assessment and even discusses OSU's NFL talent as compared to USC.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/08/26/cfb.mailbag/index.html

None of this means anything, of course. They still have to play the game. I stand by my earlier (albeit biased) hunch that a spread out Buckeye offense (a style which has given SC trouble--see Oregon last year) led by Pryor will surprise a lot of people.

Fair enough, but I never said OSU had no talent. I just think from top to bottom, USC has a ton more. OSU has a strong defense, no doubt. However, USC has the tools and weapons on O to challenge that D, while the OSU offense, outside of Wells who will be less 100%, doesn't have the same talent, especially at the QB position where Boeckman has been horrible in big games. The bowl game from last year for evidence. You're absolutely correct USC doesn't have great cornerbacks and it's something that slipped my mind a bit, but OSU's O-line struggled with Ohio last week. USC is a totally different beast. I also think that Dennis Dixon is worlds better at the QB spot than Boeckman will ever be.

USC on offense has 3 rbs that individually could start on almost any other team in the NCAAs. They have 3-4 WRs that are all legit deep threats. Sure Jenkins is good, prolly the best player on OSU's D, but he can only cover one of Hazelton, Turner, Williams, or Johnson.

[rockymtn devil]

Fair enough, but I never said OSU had no talent. I just think from top to bottom, USC has a ton more. OSU has a strong defense, no doubt. However, USC has the tools and weapons on O to challenge that D, while the OSU offense, outside of Wells who will be less 100%, doesn't have the same talent, especially at the QB position where Boeckman has been horrible in big games. The bowl game from last year for evidence. You're absolutely correct USC doesn't have great cornerbacks and it's something that slipped my mind a bit, but OSU's O-line struggled with Ohio last week. USC is a totally different beast. I also think that Dennis Dixon is worlds better at the QB spot than Boeckman will ever be.

USC on offense has 3 rbs that individually could start on almost any other team in the NCAAs. They have 3-4 WRs that are all legit deep threats. Sure Jenkins is good, prolly the best player on OSU's D, but he can only cover one of Hazelton, Turner, Williams, or Johnson.

I agree with all of this. Dixon and Boeckman aren't even comparable. I don't think Boeckman plays all that much tomorrow. I think Pryor takes a lot of snaps and he's much more like Dixon (probably better; bigger, faster, better passer).

Wells is not going to play. I spoke to someone close to the situation on Monday and was told that he would dress but would not be a major player, if he even got in. This person could be wrong, but they've been right on every aspect of this story so far (mainly that OSU would put out mixed signals all week despite Beanie's status being well known). That's why I think the Buckeyes will come out with a different look.

[ugadevil]

I agree with all of this. Dixon and Boeckman aren't even comparable. I don't think Boeckman plays all that much tomorrow. I think Pryor takes a lot of snaps and he's much more like Dixon (probably better; bigger, faster, better passer).

Wells is not going to play. I spoke to someone close to the situation on Monday and was told that he would dress but would not be a major player, if he even got in. This person could be wrong, but they've been right on every aspect of this story so far (mainly that OSU would put out mixed signals all week despite Beanie's status being well known). That's why I think the Buckeyes will come out with a different look.

Has this source indicated the Pryor is going to get a lot of playing time? If Pryor could go Vince Young on the Trojans, there's no telling what will happen in this game. However, if Tressel uses Pryor in the same way as he used him in the past couple games, which was sparingly, I doubt he has enough time to make an impact. Still, I expect USC to win big, regardless of who Ohio State puts out there.

[rockymtn devil]

Has this source indicated the Pryor is going to get a lot of playing time? If Pryor could go Vince Young on the Trojans, there's no telling what will happen in this game. However, if Tressel uses Pryor in the same way as he used him in the past couple games, which was sparingly, I doubt he has enough time to make an impact. Still, I expect USC to win big, regardless of who Ohio State puts out there.

My belief that Pryor will get a lot of snaps is based on my gut. What I've been told is that they used a VERY short list of plays against Ohio (no more than 10 offensive plays were used last weekend) and that the point in playing this Chris Wells-will-he-play game was simply to make USC prepare for a traditional offense. My inference from that is that OSU won't use a traditional offense.

I also know that Tressel wanted to put Pryor in quite a bit last week but that his OC disagreed. Head Coach obviously has the veto, but Tressel didn't exercise it.

I just don't see OSU's defense giving up enough points for it to be a blowout. USC runs a pretty traditional offense. Buckeyes have done well against those styles in the past few years.

[SoCalDukeFan]

that Ohio State has stunk up the BCS the last two years.

I think many want to see USC win hoping it will keep OSU out of the next BCS game.

I will be at the game. Actually if OSU uses the frosh qb they might win.

It will be fun.

SoCal

[terrih]

I happened to have to be in LA for a meeting Friday, so making a weekend of it and going to the game. I am just hoping for a great show by both teams. I don't really care who wins.

Fingers crossed that Ohio State can keep it close.

[ugadevil]

The USC student section is chanting overrated and it's not even halftime!

[RelativeWays]

If Pete Carroll runs up the score, which he said he would do and it looks that way, do you think its justified if an Ohio State Player tries to take out a USC player with a cheap shot? I don't think either are ethical at all BTW but I could take a bad loss, but not an intentional embarrassment.

[allenmurray]

If Pete Carroll runs up the score, which he said he would do and it looks that way, do you think its justified if an Ohio State Player tries to take out a USC player with a cheap shot?

No. Never. If you don't want the other team to score, play defense - this isn't Pee Wee football. Intentionally trying to injure another player? The two are nowhere near comprable.

[ugadevil]

If Pete Carroll runs up the score, which he said he would do and it looks that way, do you think its justified if an Ohio State Player tries to take out a USC player with a cheap shot? I don't think either are ethical at all BTW but I could take a bad loss, but not an intentional embarrassment.

If USC loses a player to a cheap shot, they probably have a potential first round draft pick as his back-up. If I was a high profile high school recruit, I'd love to go play for Pete Carroll. It just seems like his teams are always having fun.

[RelativeWays]

It does seem like they do. I don't think Carroll is like Frank Beamer or Les Miles (they will go out of their way to ruin their opponents) but he'll try to score on every offensive possesion he has. That bit today where Duke opted not to kick the field goal at the end of the game to show some class, USC goes for the endzone.

[ugadevil]

Sometimes I think USC runs up the score just because they're that good and it's inevitable. They bring in their 3rd and 4th string skill players, but the talent drop off isn't enough to where they won't stop scoring. However, I'm pretty sure they'd like to drop 100 against any team that Ray Small plays for.

[ugadevil]

It looks like the Buckeyes are being taken behind the woodshed.

[studdlee10]

It looks like the Buckeyes are being taken behind the woodshed.

OSU didn't play well tonight, but OSU fans have something to be excited about. I'm no expert, but Pryor looked good tonight. If he can develop some touch and learn to read D's...this kid is gonna be incredible.

That said...GO DUKE!! I never thought I'd say that a Duke QB would be better than a OSU qb, but it's true now. Thad running OSU woudl be a much better team than we saw today.

[duketaylor]

Just a complete beatdown. When I have the time I listen to plenty of sports radion and Buckeye fan wasn't even around this week, a sure sign they were afraid of what did eventually happen. Kinda like the two weeks of what's happened to UVA fball, then the trip to UCONN today resulting in the Al Groh experiment gone bad. U-G-L-Y, ugly, UVA's just ugly.

[ugadevil]

USC reminds me of the Florida State teams of the 90's. They completely dominate their conference and have become the standard in the PAC 10. And they win half their games just by walking out on the field and being USC by the confidence and intimidation factor.

[rockymtn devil]

Wow. A couple of thoughts.

1. USC is the best team in the country. I'll be surprised if they don't win the BCS Title.

2. I didn't expect the Trojan offensive line to hold up like it did, but, IMO, it won this game for them.

3. If Ohio State doesn't have that TD called back it's 14-10 and a much closer game. Everything fell apart after that.

4. The Buckeye offense needs some serious changes. They won't win the B10 playing that style without Chris Wells in the mix. Pryor needs to start.

[throatybeard]

Wow. A couple of thoughts.

1. USC is the best team in the country. I'll be surprised if they don't win the BCS Title.

I dunno. Everybody says that every year. Once or twice it's happened. The rest of the time they manage to lose twice to 7-5 PAC10 teams.

[Wander]

Yeah, USC's earned the right to be considered the favorite, but it's still only September. No reason really to think that Oklahoma isn't right there. And I still think Missouri has the best offense in the country...

[JimBD]

Wow. A couple of thoughts.

1. USC is the best team in the country. I'll be surprised if they don't win the BCS Title.

2. I didn't expect the Trojan offensive line to hold up like it did, but, IMO, it won this game for them.

3. If Ohio State doesn't have that TD called back it's 14-10 and a much closer game. Everything fell apart after that.

4. The Buckeye offense needs some serious changes. They won't win the B10 playing that style without Chris Wells in the mix. Pryor needs to start. USC may be the best team in the country, but beating a highly over-rated Ohio State team at home is not necessarily proof. The sports writers continue to over-rate Ohio State year after year when all they do is beat other Big 10 schools, then get stomped in the bowl games when they play outside of the Big 10. I still remember the year when many sports writers had Ohio State ranked #1 and wanted to continue ranking Michigan #2 because they only lost by 3 to Ohio State. Then they both got crushed in the bowl games. There are at least three conferences that have been far superior to the Big 10 for a number of years.

[Classof06]

As an OSU fan, there are officially no more excuses. We stink.

And even worse, we're still probably the favorite to win the Big 10.

[arnie]

As an OSU fan, there are officially no more excuses. We stink.

And even worse, we're still probably the favorite to win the Big 10.

And even worse, if they win the rest of their games against poor to mediocre competition, they could land in the silly BCS Championship game. All it takes is for the SEC to beat each other up, an upset or 2 of other big names and the midwest sportswriters will vote them in. What a system we have for determining the mythical champion.

[ugadevil]

USC may be the best team in the country, but beating a highly over-rated Ohio State team at home is not necessarily proof. The sports writers continue to over-rate Ohio State year after year when all they do is beat other Big 10 schools, then get stomped in the bowl games when they play outside of the Big 10. I still remember the year when many sports writers had Ohio State ranked #1 and wanted to continue ranking Michigan #2 because they only lost by 3 to Ohio State. Then they both got crushed in the bowl games. There are at least three conferences that have been far superior to the Big 10 for a number of years.

I'm not an Ohio State fan but I will give their program credit. In the regular season, they've won the games they were supposed to win. People can call them overrated because of their performances in the big bowl games, but they won the games they needed to in order to get to those games. Their non-conference scheduling has been near the top of the country and they have held their own in most of those games (not including this past weekend). I'll be interested to see how they perform against the rest of the conference this season. Penn State is playing well and Wisconsin is just a model of consistency.

[moonpie23]

everytime i see the sweater-vest, he is getting humiliated......how does he survive his job?

[rockymtn devil]

As an OSU fan, there are officially no more excuses. We stink.

And even worse, we're still probably the favorite to win the Big 10.

PSU is the best team in the B10 right now.

To the "Ohio State is always over-rated crowd", how quickly we forget that the Buckeyes won the 2002 National Title over a Miami squad that set the modern record for consecutive wins (and to preempt, right before the legitimate PI call, Miami only got the ball back to tie it up because of a missed PI call on 3rd down for the Buckeyes; had that call been correctly made, the game doesn't even go to OT) . Recently, they beat Texas in Austin and, the year the Longhorns won the National Title with Vince Young, lost a heartbreaker in Columbus.

Yes, the sucked on Saturday. Yes, they've disappointed in big games in recent years. No, that isn't an indictment of the program as a whole...unless you refuse to look at real results from the not-so-distant past.

[cspan37421]

OSU has fielded a consistently excellent regular season football team for years. As for their performance in title games? I seem to remember a college basketball team that was known to fold in a few title games (in 1990, spectacularly) before they broke through.

For OSU, their consistently excellent regular season play may end this year, and the OhioU win provides evidence at least strong as the USC loss.

[whereinthehellami]

It does seem like they do. I don't think Carroll is like Frank Beamer or Les Miles (they will go out of their way to ruin their opponents) but he'll try to score on every offensive possesion he has. That bit today where Duke opted not to kick the field goal at the end of the game to show some class, USC goes for the endzone.

Frank Beamer doesn't try to ruin opponents. Frank Beamer only coaches special teams. Bud Foster the defensive coordinator doesn't try to ruin opponents either. Foster does preach hard hitting and plays an aggresive swarming defense. Some of his players have gotten carried away. There is a fine line between finishing plays and a late hit. You're talking about making decisions at full speed in less than a second.

[jv001]

It looks like for the past few years the big ten has been overrated. Then there is the ohio state university who is the best of the conference that seems to always lose the big games. The SEC, Big 12 and the PAC 10 are the best conferences in the USA.

[ugadevil]

Frank Beamer doesn't try to ruin opponents. Frank Beamer only coaches special teams. Bud Foster the defensive coordinator doesn't try to ruin opponents either. Foster does preach hard hitting and plays an aggresive swarming defense. Some of his players have gotten carried away. There is a fine line between finishing plays and a late hit. You're talking about making decisions at full speed in less than a second.

Sometimes the players REALLY make the program look bad.

http://playersbehavingbadly.com/images/Marcus_Vick_1.gif