Let last year be a lesson

[Devils Rock]

There has been a lot of banter on this board lately about how Elliot Williams is going to be a starter or how about how Nolan Smith is going to usurp minutes from Paulus, Scheyer etc. Now, I need to preface my post by saying that I hope Ewill and Smith are great this year and if they take someone else's minutes, that just means we have a really a-- kicking team with sick depth, so I'm all for it.

Nonetheless, all of these posts got me thinking about the team going into last year. Last summer, I read numerous posts from people who had seen the pickup games and the one theme that consistently came out of this (and I might add the one theme that was expressed as well by all of the pre-seaon mags) was that either Gerald or Kyle was clearly going to be the best player coming into the season. Now, Gerald and kyle were great last year and I can't wait to see those guys crush the competition this year, but it was amazing to me how many people on these boards and in the media acted as if Demarcus either didn't exist or had not clearly demonstrated in the previous season that he was the most likely player to be our top option on both sides of the ball. The point is that it is easy to assume that someone will get leapfrogged, but the cold hard reality is that it takes a rare talent to unseat a grizzled veteran who has already been playing starter's minutes. In all the excitement about the newer and younger guys, let's not forget that there are already guys who have brought it, day in and day out.

The last point brings up a related thing that I have noticed: the single biggest change that seems to occur over the course of a players career is the improvement in consistency. Every great player at Duke showed flashes of what he could do early in his career, but the thing that made the "breakout" season a "breakout" season was the fact that he did it every time out on the court. JWill, Reddick, Battier, Hurley, Sheldon, Laettner etc. all looked great at times early in their careers, but late in their careers they almost alwayslooked great in every game they played. Again, this relates to the freshman and sophmores (not including Kyle who is arleady a starter) b/c I am sure they will have moments where they look awesome, but they probably won't look like that every time out. Most of us agree that Smith showed a lot of promise last year, but he didn't show it in every game. Maybe this will be the year he breaks out, maybe it won't. Either way, I'm not counting on guys like Hurley or Scheyer to be riding too much pine: history has shown us that's not likeley to happen.

[CameronBornAndBred]

More the merrier, and rested. It will be interesting to watch how K handles his depth this year. Well, it's always interesting.

[DukieInBrasil]

I´m pretty sure Hurley won´t be riding the pine next year as he hasn´t been at Duke in over a decade. Perhaps you meant to say Paulus? If that is the case, i tend to agree, i don´t think Greg will be sitting the bench too much due to the presence of a non-PG freshmen. Greg is a great shooter, a solid passer and a great leader, not a pine-rider in my book.

[Devils Rock]

I´m pretty sure Hurley won´t be riding the pine next year as he hasn´t been at Duke in over a decade. Perhaps you meant to say Paulus? If that is the case, i tend to agree, i don´t think Greg will be sitting the bench too much due to the presence of a non-PG freshmen. Greg is a great shooter, a solid passer and a great leader, not a pine-rider in my book.

Yeah, I meant Paulus. Thanks for catching my boneheaded slip-up.

[DevilDan]

Again, the nucleus of Paulus/Scheyer/Henderson/Singler is as solid as you will find in the country. They are capable of 60 points per night... then throw Nolan, Elliott, Marty (I hope), and David into the mix, and we have so much depth at G & SF.

But PLEASE show me some help up front -- Coach K freely admitted, we need to get bigger. If you figure the rotation above can give us 70 points night after night, geez, if we can just pick up 10 & 10 from the foursome of Brian/Olek/Lance/Miles, that puts us in the 80 ppg coumn -- with some of that great Duke "D" thrown in, who knows, we may really have something to get excited about !

[RelativeWays]

I want Duke to win more games and get further in the NCAA tourney. I don't care who plays or how long they play for this to happen.

[NYDukie]

Long time Duke fan here who regularly reads the board and only posts occasionally. I tend to agree that we get caught up in the hype of the incomng frosh or second year players with lots of potential but I have to get one thing off my chest which I see frequently on the board that may subject me to some criticism. I know many posters love the guys on the team but the constant thought that Marty or McClure will be major pieces to a Final 4 team seems a bit far fetched. I watch every Duke game on TV up here in NYC and although I admire their hustle, I see both as more liabilities than anything. Marty for all his athletic ability plays often out of control and seems to be always dinged up and missing time. I feel for him but the reality is that he is a mop up player. As for McClure, he may at times supply a spark defensively with some hustle but at the same time, it seems they have 4 guys on offense with his guy doubling some where else. Again, I can see some of the regulars and powers to be on the board coming down on me for criticizing them as they seem to be fan favorites but if the teams needs both of them to be 15 min per game type players we are in for a downer of a year. The more important aspects for this team is whether Kyle or Gerald or both can develop into that stud player to rely on while guys like Scheyer, Paulus and Smith can grow into solid supporting cast an if Lance and Zoubs grew stronger in order to hold the line down in blocks. Anything the freshman do is icing on the cake.

[COYS]

but if the teams needs both of them to be 15 min per game type players we are in for a downer of a year. The more important aspects for this team is whether Kyle or Gerald or both can develop into that stud player to rely on while guys like Scheyer, Paulus and Smith can grow into solid supporting cast an if Lance and Zoubs grew stronger in order to hold the line down in blocks. Anything the freshman do is icing on the cake.

I might be wrong, but I'm not sure that anyone expects Marty or Dave to be 15 mpg players this year. Nevertheless, Dave represents a fundamentally sound player who plays tough defense and knows his limitations on offense (although I wouldn't mind him taking a few more shots) who can provide a little relief for Kyle and or Lance while also providing veteran leadership from the floor, bench, and practice gym that will be important for the rest of the team and especially the freshman. I think Marty's role is more difficult to pin down. We'll have to see how well he recovers from surgery. He clearly has some impressive physical tools and certainly has the ability to be a spark from the bench, even if he never plays major minutes. I think both will play limited minutes in the 3-8 mpg range (though Marty may be on the lower end). More importantly, I can see Dave coming into games if Lance or Kyle or someone else is struggling to do what K wants, defensively, and he wants to put someone to serve as an example. As all of you guys know, K will not hesitate to unload the entire bench if he thinks the starters are playing poorly and failing to execute. Dave can serve as a leader who has been in the system for a long time, has high basketball IQ, and can come in to settle down the team in the right situation.

On the other hand, I completely agree with you that anything the freshmen give is icing on the cake. Ideally, Gerald, Kyle, Scheyer, Smith, Zoubs, Lance and the other regulars from last year will make the next step. However, if Miles Plumlee, Williams, and Czyz can come in and be impact players in limited minutes off the bench, it might be the spark we need to guide us to success in March.

[jimsumner]

Some good points by Devils Rock and I'm all for caution. But, with all due respect, Nelson was the focal point of lots and lots of articles on Duke basketball. I'm pretty sure he wasn't being ignored.

[mgtr]

With the title of this thread (Let Last Year be a Lesson), I thought it would make the point that we needed to play a longer rotation early in the season, maybe all the way up to tournament time. I think the lesson from last year is that if you put all the responsibility on a few players (particularly down low), their legs are gone when the tournament rolls around. Note that K did that in the Olympics -- in the final, he really shortened up the rotation.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Again, the nucleus of Paulus/Scheyer/Henderson/Singler is as solid as you will find in the country. They are capable of 60 points per night... then throw Nolan, Elliott, Marty (I hope), and David into the mix, and we have so much depth at G & SF.

But PLEASE show me some help up front -- Coach K freely admitted, we need to get bigger. If you figure the rotation above can give us 70 points night after night, geez, if we can just pick up 10 & 10 from the foursome of Brian/Olek/Lance/Miles, that puts us in the 80 ppg coumn -- with some of that great Duke "D" thrown in, who knows, we may really have something to get excited about !

I think the real key is the health of the team. We are not so lacking in size this year that that alone will hurt us. Last year was incredibly tough with Zoubs trying to come back from injury. It was too much for Singler and Thomas to pull all the weight inside and remain fresh by the time March rolled around. If Zoubs is healthy and with the addition of Plumlee to help down low, I think we're in really good shape. Singler, Thomas, McClure and OC will be able to spend time guarding forwards instead of centers but still help when needed. We may not literally be much taller than last year. But a healthy team will play much bigger well into March. I think we should be excited no matter what. It's been rough going in the tourney for a few years, but anyone who looks at 28-6 as a bad season is spoiled. We're very luck fans.

[devildeac]

Silly me. I thought this would be a thread about last year's L to Navy and how we would learn from it and come up with a W tomorrow:o:D.

[Olympic Fan]

With the title of this thread (Let Last Year be a Lesson), I thought it would make the point that we needed to play a longer rotation early in the season, maybe all the way up to tournament time. I think the lesson from last year is that if you put all the responsibility on a few players (particularly down low), their legs are gone when the tournament rolls around. Note that K did that in the Olympics -- in the final, he really shortened up the rotation.

I hate to say it, but I think you are a year behind with this concern.

It was certainly true that Coach K used a short bench in 2005 (by necessity with all the injuries), 2006 and 2007. I also thought that playing more people early would help in March.

But ...

None of that was true last year. Duke got more bench production than anybody in the ACC in 2008. When it comes to minutes-per-game, not a single Duke player ranked in the ACC's top 10. DeMarcus Nelson was the only Duke player who played 30 minutes a game and he was less than 31 a game. Scheyer (28.3), Singler (28.6), Paulus (27.7) and Henderson (26.2) all played reasonable minutes (less than the majority of starters in the ACC).

K had 10 players that saw considerable action early -- Zoubek's injury curtailed his contribution at midseason; K phased out Taylor King as the season progressed. By tournament time, he was down to eight.

I think that's what he'll do this season -- start with 10 men in the rotation and pare it down to eight by tournament time ... that's pretty normal for most successful programs (and exactly what K did through most of his career).

As for size, the hope is that improvement comes from:

(1) An older, stronger Singler ... it's hardly farfetched to think he'll be more effective as a sophomore and with 15 extra pounds than he was last season. And like Scheyer (who wore down late as a freshman in 2007, but stayed strong as a sophomore in 2008), I expect Singler to be a lot stronger in March than he was last season. Singler had a better freshman season than Alarie, Ferry, Laettner or Battier ... I don't think it's wishful thinking to believe he'll be significantly better -- and stronger inside -- this year.

(2) A healthy Zoubek ... I don't want to touch off another debate with the Zoubek-haters out there. Suffice it to say that K himself has projected Zoubek to play 20-25 minutes a game this season. Obviously, many of you don't think that will happen and you have every right to that opinion ... I'm just saying that it's not an unreasonable hope (and for all the haters out there, keep in mind that even with his bad foot last year, Zoubek averaged more rebounds and blocks per minute than anybody else on the team). Can we agree that IF Zoubs is good enough and healthy enough to averge 20-25 minutes, Duke's size concerns will be answered?

(3) Marginal improvement from Lance Thomas ... Okay, I'm not expecting a huge jump after two years, but he DID improve after his freshman year (from 14.9 to 18.5 minutes; from 4.0 to 4.3 in scoring; from 2.5 to 3.3 in rebounding; from 3 to 12 blocks). If there was going to be a huge jump, I'd have expected to see it last year ... but I'll settle for another little jump in production. Although if Zoubek does play a significant role, it might cut his minutes.

(4) Some production from Plumlee and/or Czyz. Both are real post players who are here, essentially, as a trade for Taylor King. While I loved King and what he could give us on the offensive end with his 3-point stroke, the two newcomers are both more natural post players (although both can go inside/outside). Everybody who has seen Czyz play has raved about his athleticism, while Plumlee is a 6-10, 220-pounder who last year finished second in the NC prep high jump competition, clearing 6-9. You think one of them might offer something that was missing last year?

We're talking about two positions. We have a potential all-star at the 4 (Singler) and the biggest player in the ACC at the 5. They are backed up by a junior who has started 46 games in the last two years and two top 100 freshman.

That's hardly a nightmare.

[jimsumner]

"Suffice it to say that K himself has projected Zoubek to play 20-25 minutes a game this season."

C'mon OF, what does he know? He doesn't spend any time on message boards. :)

FWIW, I see freshman Singler as similar to junior Ferry. So maybe sophomore Singler becomes junior Ferry. And junior Ferry was pretty darn good.

[dukeimac]

For the past few years there have been people on this board talking about the depth of this team. For example, a lot of people were hyped early on about King and look at what happened there.

Duke needs a good rotation at the post, Run guys like Zo, Mc, Thomas, Plumlee and the Czar at the opponents post players will tire them out. These guys don't need to post big numbers, just tire out the big guys from the other teams. Be Johnny hustle.

Have a good rotation at the guard slots and swing guys with contributions from everyone, good contributions.

It sounds simple, but Duke just hasn't been getting that. With Zo and Mc hurt it forced Singler and Thomas to play too much of the post, way too much. No body could replace the package that DN put on the floor (score, rebound and defense). Paulus, Nolan, Henderson and Scheyer did well but carried the team too much. It would have been real nice to have Marty be able to come in and replace Henderson or Nelson with some good contribution.

The thing is, Duke NEEDS Zo and Mc to be healthy for 4-8 minutes a game with Plumlee and the Czar given a good 4-6 minutes and Thomas being able to give about 12 real quality minutes. Marty NEEDS to be able to give Henderson a rest and contribute good while he is in there. The 2 guard slots are very good. I can see Duke going small at times but not always; only because that means guys like Singler will have to guard the post players and play more time.

The problem is, no matter how good everyone says the in coming freshman are they do not seem to be good enough, as a group, to contribute solidly. Singler was great and Nolan was good but King was to slow on defense to help out. Had King been able to play defense he could have played some of Singler's minutes guarding the post, even for 4 or 5 minutes a game would have made a difference.

If Duke doesn't have a real solid 8 guys who can put up double digits on any given night then they need good help for 10 guys. With Zo, MC or Marty hurt and Plumlee and the Czar not contributing but for the end of the game Duke is not a final 4 team.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It sounds simple, but Duke just hasn't been getting that. With Zo and Mc hurt it forced Singler and Thomas to play too much of the post, way too much. No body could replace the package that DN put on the floor (score, rebound and defense). Paulus, Nolan, Henderson and Scheyer did well but carried the team too much. It would have been real nice to have Marty be able to come in and replace Henderson or Nelson with some good contribution.

The thing is, Duke NEEDS Zo and Mc to be healthy for 4-8 minutes a game with Plumlee and the Czar given a good 4-6 minutes and Thomas being able to give about 12 real quality minutes. Marty NEEDS to be able to give Henderson a rest and contribute good while he is in there. The 2 guard slots are very good. I can see Duke going small at times but not always; only because that means guys like Singler will have to guard the post players and play more time.

The problem is, no matter how good everyone says the in coming freshman are they do not seem to be good enough, as a group, to contribute solidly. Singler was great and Nolan was good but King was to slow on defense to help out. Had King been able to play defense he could have played some of Singler's minutes guarding the post, even for 4 or 5 minutes a game would have made a difference.

If Duke doesn't have a real solid 8 guys who can put up double digits on any given night then they need good help for 10 guys. With Zo, MC or Marty hurt and Plumlee and the Czar not contributing but for the end of the game Duke is not a final 4 team.

What a buzzkill. Why so negative? :( You're playing out scenarios of hurt players and freshman that don't contribute months before the season even starts. Right now, we're apparently much healthier than we've been in a while and certainly deeper than we were last year, especially down low. So why play out the doomsday scenario? You could say this about any team anywhere. But what's the point?

[mgtr]

I hate to say it, but I think you are a year behind with this concern.

It is hard to argue with any of your analysis, you quote all the numbers. But did you watch any of the ACC or NCAA tournaments last spring? Of course, you had to watch quickly, since Duke wasn't there very long. Why? Because Nelson and Singler were shot. Now, maybe they had the flu, but I have yet to see anybody post anything which explains this. I think they just had tired legs. Nelson couldn't even reach the rim in the WVU game (and he had great hops and long arms during the season) and Singler was clearly dragging.
When I was in high school (admittedly we used stone tablets and a basketball made of old rags then), our coach theorized that you could be number one during the season, or number one at tournament time, but terribly difficult to do both.
Coach K has always stated that his goal is the national championship. Maybe it is necessary to give up a little during the season in order to have more later on. That was my whole point.

[dukeimac]

What a buzzkill. Why so negative? :( You're playing out scenarios of hurt players and freshman that don't contribute months before the season even starts. Right now, we're apparently much healthier than we've been in a while and certainly deeper than we were last year, especially down low. So why play out the doomsday scenario? You could say this about any team anywhere. But what's the point?

I don't see it as a buzzkill, I see it as being realistic. What scenarios did I play out? I just stated what Duke needs to be successful. Zo and Marty came to Duke healthy and they have spent more time on the IR. I surely hope they are healthy for this season, it would really help out a lot. As for the freshman, it is hard to put things together. I say people get all hyped about King's scoring last year and we see what that got Duke.

I see talk about Czars slamming ability but nothing about his defense. The evaluators think he is weak in this area. I hope he comes in with the attitude like Singler, Nolan and Smith did rather than what King, Boykin and Boateng did.

I see talk about Plumlee helping in the post yet the evaluators say he is not a physical player and is a weak "power" 4. I think Duke can really use him but not to man up on the post.

I see talk about EWill and how he can score but no one is talking about his defense. The evaluators aren't saying much, good or bad. And this was all the talk about King.

Zo is healthy but he was to start the season last year. No one is talking about how he is moving up and down the court. Has he picked up ANY speed? Or is he still stumbling over his feet. I hope he develops a fluid movement up and down the court.

I'm just wondering if guys are wearing rose colored glasses and seeing what they want to see rather than what things really are.

I hope Duke gets 10 good contributors this year but it will all come down to attitudes and health. I hope the freshman learn to play defense and Duke gets healthy bodies.

[DevilDan]

DUKEIMAC gives us a perspective on the limits of this roster, based on what we bring back and what has been reported on our freshmen. With those "roadblocks" in front of us, we still stand to be a top three team in the ACC, and nationally ranked throughout the year. With the possible exeception of UNC, all the other frontrunners in the NCAA can be broken down this way, with their weaknesses exposed.

The positives? Coach K comes back with momentum like never before, as no doubt will the Cameron Crazies. Duke has team chemistry and brings it every night like few other teams. We play small ball with the best of them, and can on a given night make life hell for bigger teams. The "X factor" will be the contribution in the frontcourt. We GOTTA get some numbers (and intangibles) from Lance/Brian/Olek/Miles if this team is to make a Championship run. If our 7-8 man Guard & Small Forward group produces every night, PLUS a little of the above, this team will be in every game it plays.

[dukeimac]

Truth be known I believe Duke is in the top 2 of the ACC and at least in the top 8 nationally.

If EWill gives Duke 8+ points and Plumlee / the Czar give Duke 6+ rebounds And Zo, Mc and Marty stay healthy Duke could be a serious challenger to UNC.

Paulus / Nolan at PG - split time, solid
Scheyer / EWill at SG and a little Paulus - solid
Henderson / Marty - Marty needs to give 6+ points and 2+ rebounds with good defense.
Singler / Plumlee - Plumlee needs to get 3+ rebounds and good defense
Zo / Thomas / Mc / Czar - all giving good defense, 8+ rebounds and 10+ points

Duke would give UNC a serious run. Just keep in mind what Duke needs from the Freshman and the guys who had injuries last year stay healthy. But this is what it always comes down to. King let Duke down last year and that weakened Duke plus the injuries.

I carry the Duke banner amongst my UNC friends and I am proud of that but I'm always realistic about any teams chances.

[DevilDan]

I've got to think (translation: I HOPE and PRAY) that EWill, Miles, and Olek give us more than Taylor King. I watched TK here in CA during his Jr/Sr years at Mater Dei; it was clear ALL he wanted to do was SHOOT. I really questioned whether he could find a place in the Duke scheme, but hoped the Coaches could help him develop a complete game. Not sure if that ever got thru to him ... in the end, he made the right decision to transfer.

From long distance, our three Freshmen look much more coachable. Plumlee looks to be a dependable player for the next 3-4 years... EWill's game (from what's been said) will be a great fit for our offense... but I think the man is going to be OLEK ... I hope he gets floor time in Nov-Dec. He'll make his mistakes, but he is going to "wow" us with some incredible plays, too. GO DUKE !

[Tim1515]

There has been a lot of banter on this board lately about how Elliot Williams is going to be a starter or how about how Nolan Smith is going to usurp minutes from Paulus, Scheyer etc. Now, I need to preface my post by saying that I hope Ewill and Smith are great this year and if they take someone else's minutes, that just means we have a really a-- kicking team with sick depth, so I'm all for it.

Nonetheless, all of these posts got me thinking about the team going into last year. Last summer, I read numerous posts from people who had seen the pickup games and the one theme that consistently came out of this (and I might add the one theme that was expressed as well by all of the pre-seaon mags) was that either Gerald or Kyle was clearly going to be the best player coming into the season. Now, Gerald and kyle were great last year and I can't wait to see those guys crush the competition this year, but it was amazing to me how many people on these boards and in the media acted as if Demarcus either didn't exist or had not clearly demonstrated in the previous season that he was the most likely player to be our top option on both sides of the ball. The point is that it is easy to assume that someone will get leapfrogged, but the cold hard reality is that it takes a rare talent to unseat a grizzled veteran who has already been playing starter's minutes. In all the excitement about the newer and younger guys, let's not forget that there are already guys who have brought it, day in and day out.

The last point brings up a related thing that I have noticed: the single biggest change that seems to occur over the course of a players career is the improvement in consistency. Every great player at Duke showed flashes of what he could do early in his career, but the thing that made the "breakout" season a "breakout" season was the fact that he did it every time out on the court. JWill, Reddick, Battier, Hurley, Sheldon, Laettner etc. all looked great at times early in their careers, but late in their careers they almost alwayslooked great in every game they played. Again, this relates to the freshman and sophmores (not including Kyle who is arleady a starter) b/c I am sure they will have moments where they look awesome, but they probably won't look like that every time out. Most of us agree that Smith showed a lot of promise last year, but he didn't show it in every game. Maybe this will be the year he breaks out, maybe it won't. Either way, I'm not counting on guys like Hurley or Scheyer to be riding too much pine: history has shown us that's not likeley to happen.

I actually think the big flaw of this argument is that before last year started the big discussion was about who would start...Scheyer or Hendo. Many assumed Scheyer would start because he did as a freshman...yet Gerald ended up being the starter

[Edouble]

I see talk about EWill and how he can score but no one is talking about his defense. The evaluators aren't saying much, good or bad. And this was all the talk about King.

Zo is healthy but he was to start the season last year. No one is talking about how he is moving up and down the court. Has he picked up ANY speed? Or is he still stumbling over his feet. I hope he develops a fluid movement up and down the court.



A few things. I don't think you are trying to buzzkill, and I appreciate your realism.

EWill has been praised for his defensive abilities on several occassions on this board. By January, a backcourt of Nolan, EWill and Scheyer/Hendo should be as defensively imposing as any in the country, and may be unmatched. I don't think this will be our starting backcourt, but it is a line-up that could be used for significant minutes. It was clear early on that King was not willing to bust a gut on defense, and also that a busted gut from King probably wouldn't get us much anyway. EWill is a huge step up defensively from King, and he is being advertised as one of our better defenders.

I'm not sure that Z's ability to get up and down the court is important at all.

Hear me out. Z clearly needs to get his footwork down solid in the paint. He can not be shuffling after a rebound or before a putback. Those tools and staying injury free are keys for a great season. He's 7 feet. If he's in the game he's gonna get rebounds and points when he hangs around the rim. I don't think getting up and down the court is important. If Z can make the outlet pass, we can run the floor without him. Brand got up and down like an elk, and Boozer helped us finish on the break on occassion, but he was also one to start it. How often was Laettner the last one trotting down the floor though? With Singler and our guards in the game we've got enough weapons to run and score quickly on the fast break without Z. I'm much more concerned with how the big guy gets consistent injury-free minutes throughout the season, and how his footwork is down low.

[gumbomoop]

Hear me out. Z clearly needs to get his footwork down solid in the paint. He can not be shuffling after a rebound or before a putback. Those tools and staying injury free are keys for a great season.

I agree with this analysis of Z. I don't remember much "inside info" on these boards re Z's injury, so that's a big question mark. Assuming for the moment that Z is fully recovered at/near mid-Oct, it strikes me that Edouble hits nail on head re footwork: namely, Z's been a work-in-progress on that score, with not much progress. I wouldn't quite go so far as to compare Z with Casey Sanders's consistent confusion concerning which was his pivot foot on so many plays, but as Edouble implies, Z's "shuffling" down low hurts too, too often. In addition, his poor footwork hurts on positioning defense.

I'm still pumping for McClure to get more minutes. I detect (among posters) hopefulness but uncertainty re MP's readiness, wild enthusiasm among a few but skepticism among most re OC's readiness. Some weeks back I suggested that McC was easily the best defender against Joe Alexander and that he was a very good shotblocker and clever interior passer. (Go to the videotape.) Alas, he sure doesn't fit K's reported "We have to get bigger" comment, so I guess his minutes will stay below 10, unless the frosh aren't quite ready and LT and Z are still works-in-progress.

[dukeimac]

I agree the Zo doesn't need to be a fleet of foot but he does need to be able to get up and down the court much better, more ease. For guys his height getting tired is one of the main reasons they encounter injuries. They tend to push themselves harder then their bodies can handle.

As for EWill, I have notice some posters talk about his good defense but I'm wondering if that isn't just wishful thinking. Everyone knows that Coach K isn't going to give anyone time just because they can score, i.e. King. So I'm wondering if posters aren't just wishing he plays good defense. I have not seen him play so I turn more towards the evaluators (Scout.com, etc.) to see what they are saying and none of them are saying anything about his defense. Thus, maybe he had a couple of games where he played great defense but that might have been to impress someone.

As for Mc, I like him. He knows he is a role player and comes in to play defense and grab rebounds. He realizes points are just a premium from him. To me he is a grunt guy and he knows it. I look forward to having a healthy Mc and see him guard Hans. Hans might be taller but he isn't going to push Mc around without Mc pushing back and Hans DOES NOT like it when someone gets physical with him, he likes to control that part of the game. That is a big reason why I think he stayed in college, the pros are going to have fun with that baby.

[jv001]

For the past few years there have been people on this board talking about the depth of this team. For example, a lot of people were hyped early on about King and look at what happened there.

Have a good rotation at the guard slots and swing guys with contributions from everyone, good contributions.

It sounds simple, but Duke just hasn't been getting that. With Zo and Mc hurt it forced Singler and Thomas to play too much of the post, way too much. No body could replace the package that DN put on the floor (score, rebound and defense). Paulus, Nolan, Henderson and Scheyer did well but carried the team too much. It would have been real nice to have Marty be able to come in and replace Henderson or Nelson with some good contribution.

I can see Duke going small at times but not always; only because that means guys like Singler will have to guard the post players and play more time.


If Duke doesn't have a real solid 8 guys who can put up double digits on any given night then they need good help for 10 guys. With Zo, MC or Marty hurt and Plumlee and the Czar not contributing but for the end of the game Duke is not a final 4 team.

What we need is not have our two best players worn out at years end. Last year DeMark and Kyle were worn out by years end. Kyle was worn out from playing the other teams #5 and DeMark from injury/flu. I think you hit on something when you mention depth. I see Coach K using his bench this year like never before. If Kyle has to play the opponents #5 every game, I believe he will not be the offensive star he should be. As of the guards, we don't know what will happen there, except Greg, Nolan, Gerald and Jon will get most of the mins. Looking forward to tipoff.

[Devils Rock]

I actually think the big flaw of this argument is that before last year started the big discussion was about who would start...Scheyer or Hendo. Many assumed Scheyer would start because he did as a freshman...yet Gerald ended up being the starter

You are right, the Hendo/Scheyer debate was also a big part of the pre-season conjecture-fest. However, I was speaking specifically about comments I had read following everyone's play in the pick-up games. Also, as I mentioned, I read numerous pre-season mag summaries about Duke's upcoming season and several of the writers also gave Demarcus short shrift compared to Gerald and Singler.

Interestingly, your comment made me think of another theme that came out of the p/u game comments and that was that several people (including some of the Duke players) said that Lance was the most improved player last summer. We all know how that went down. Here's hoping that the enthusiasm from this year's Durham tourney is mirrored by the season-long performance of those involved.