Midway

[EarlJam]

The movie, "Midway" is on AMC for those interested.

GREAT movie. First one I saw at a theatre with my dad. Come to think of it, I only saw two movies at the theatre with my dad (Midway and Smokey & the Bandit).

Anyway, great movie, even if they DO use ESSEX Class carriers for video. Those class of carriers were built after the battle of Midway.

-EJ

[JBDuke]

The movie, "Midway" is on AMC for those interested.

GREAT movie. First one I saw at a theatre with my dad. Come to think of it, I only saw two movies at the theatre with my dad (Midway and Smokey & the Bandit).

Anyway, great movie, even if they DO use ESSEX Class carriers for video. Those class of carriers were built after the battle of Midway.

-EJ

IMO, "Midway" is two movies in one. The near-documentary about the events leading up to the battle and then the battle itself and then the second movie - the father-son drama centered on the son's engagement to an interned Japanese girl. The first movie rocks. The second one blows.

[EarlJam]

IMO, "Midway" is two movies in one. The near-documentary about the events leading up to the battle and then the battle itself and then the second movie - the father-son drama centered on the son's engagement to an interned Japanese girl. The first movie rocks. The second one blows.

Regarding the "second movie." Good point and agreed. And it also gets the bad editing for PG TV award. When the Japanese girl tries to end things with the son (even when she doesn't want to), he gets really angry and says, "Say it to my FACE!' She begins to tear up. Then comes the bad PG edit, "Say it to my FACE gosh darnit!" Somehow, that just came across as odd.

Then there's Heston's great line: "You're paid to fly planes not to sit and cry over your girl. You better shape up flyboy! Or some hot shot Jap pilot's gonna flame your arse!"

Later, he got flamed big time.

-EJ

[snowdenscold]

IMO, "Midway" is two movies in one. The near-documentary about the events leading up to the battle and then the battle itself and then the second movie - the father-son drama centered on the son's engagement to an interned Japanese girl. The first movie rocks. The second one blows.

I don't remember this 'second' movie at all. It's been years since I've seen it, but I recall the near-documentary parts and the carrier battle, but nothing about a Japanese girl...

[Lavabe]

IMO, "Midway" is two movies in one. The near-documentary about the events leading up to the battle and then the battle itself and then the second movie - the father-son drama centered on the son's engagement to an interned Japanese girl. The first movie rocks. The second one blows.

Moviewise, which was better, "Midway" or "Tora! Tora! Tora!"?

[EarlJam]

Moviewise, which was better, "Midway" or "Tora! Tora! Tora!"?

Good question. I'd say they were pretty much even. The special effects were better in Tora! Tora! Tora! and I know it won multiple awards for them.

[TillyGalore]

I don't remember this 'second' movie at all. It's been years since I've seen it, but I recall the near-documentary parts and the carrier battle, but nothing about a Japanese girl...

I read "Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance" before I saw "Midway." The love story line in "Midway" reminded me of the love story in WOW and WAR between the main character's son and his Jewish wife stuck in Europe.


Moviewise, which was better, "Midway" or "Tora! Tora! Tora!"?

I have to go with "Tora! Tora! Tora!" That is one of my all time favorite war movies, "The Longest Day" being the other.

[Olympic Fan]

I think the movie "Midway" is excellent, even if it is marred IMHO by the stupid love story between Heston's son and the Japanese girl.

The film begins with scenes taken from the WWII film "30 Seconds over Tokyo" showing the launch of Doolittle's B-25s for the Tokyo Raid. The film also copies "Tora, Tora, Tora" in many ways -- except for the addition of the fictional love story.

I've seen a TV version that has scenes that were not in the original release -- especially scenes involving the Battle of the Coral Sea, which takes place off-screen in the theatrical version.

I would have to give "Tora, Tora, Tora" an edge because it sticks to history (with the exception of the one widely quote, but fictional comment by Admiral Yamamoto at the end: "I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant").

Midway is more fun to watch because the Americans win, but Tora, Tora, Tora is a better film.

Oh, what the heck, WWII movies that get (mostly) it right:

Tora, Tora, Tora
Midway (If you want to nitpick, not only are the carriers wrong -- not only Essex Class, but angled deck conversions -- but all the officers on the carriers are wearing khaki ... at the time of the battle, they all wore dress whites).
The Longest Day (people don't understand that the importance of the all-star war picture is to help the audience keep the characters straight in a complicated story ... The Longest Day pioneered this and did it best ... although the French raid on the casino did not take place on D-Day)
A Bridge too Far
The Battle of Britain
Sink the Bismark (actually there are a whole host of British war films that handle the facts fairly well ... this, the Pursuit of the Graf Spee, Malta Story ...)
Battleground
The Great Raid


There are elements of truth in "12 O'clock High" and even the wartime flag-waver "Air Force". Few of the films made during the war can be trusted for accuracy. But I'd offer three exceptions:

30 Seconds over Tokyo -- The account of the training and the execution of the Doolittle Tokyo Raid is an very accurate account of Ted Lawson's popular book.

The Story of G.I. Joe ... based on Ernie Pyle's Pulitzer Prize winning reporting of the war in North Africa and Italy. A heartbreaking film with a great performance by a young Robert Mitchum. Also heartbreaking when you learn that many of the film's extras were real soldiers who were on their way to the Pacific, where, according to Pyle, most of them died.

They Were Expendable ... Another accurate account of a popular wartime book, about the PT boats in the Philippines. This difference is that this one is directed by the great John Ford and contains brilliant performances by Robert Montgomery, John Wayne and Donna Reed. The sappy near-romance between Wayne and Reed actually depicts a relationship that did happen ... What makes it the greatest WWII movie ever made is the honesty by which Ford portrays his theme of sacrifice. As the squadron is whittled down (as much by accident as by enemy action), men are left behind, creating some of the most gut-wrenching partings ever put on screen. The final loading of the last plane out of the Philippines is almost two painful to watch.

[TNTDevil]

I think the movie "Midway" is excellent, even if it is marred IMHO by the stupid love story between Heston's son and the Japanese girl.

The film begins with scenes taken from the WWII film "30 Seconds over Tokyo" showing the launch of Doolittle's B-25s for the Tokyo Raid. The film also copies "Tora, Tora, Tora" in many ways -- except for the addition of the fictional love story.

I've seen a TV version that has scenes that were not in the original release -- especially scenes involving the Battle of the Coral Sea, which takes place off-screen in the theatrical version.

I would have to give "Tora, Tora, Tora" an edge because it sticks to history (with the exception of the one widely quote, but fictional comment by Admiral Yamamoto at the end: "I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant").

Midway is more fun to watch because the Americans win, but Tora, Tora, Tora is a better film.

Oh, what the heck, WWII movies that get (mostly) it right:

Tora, Tora, Tora
Midway (If you want to nitpick, not only are the carriers wrong -- not only Essex Class, but angled deck conversions -- but all the officers on the carriers are wearing khaki ... at the time of the battle, they all wore dress whites).
The Longest Day (people don't understand that the importance of the all-star war picture is to help the audience keep the characters straight in a complicated story ... The Longest Day pioneered this and did it best ... although the French raid on the casino did not take place on D-Day)
A Bridge too Far
The Battle of Britain
Sink the Bismark (actually there are a whole host of British war films that handle the facts fairly well ... this, the Pursuit of the Graf Spee, Malta Story ...)
Battleground
The Great Raid


There are elements of truth in "12 O'clock High" and even the wartime flag-waver "Air Force". Few of the films made during the war can be trusted for accuracy. But I'd offer three exceptions:

30 Seconds over Tokyo -- The account of the training and the execution of the Doolittle Tokyo Raid is an very accurate account of Ted Lawson's popular book.

The Story of G.I. Joe ... based on Ernie Pyle's Pulitzer Prize winning reporting of the war in North Africa and Italy. A heartbreaking film with a great performance by a young Robert Mitchum. Also heartbreaking when you learn that many of the film's extras were real soldiers who were on their way to the Pacific, where, according to Pyle, most of them died.

They Were Expendable ... Another accurate account of a popular wartime book, about the PT boats in the Philippines. This difference is that this one is directed by the great John Ford and contains brilliant performances by Robert Montgomery, John Wayne and Donna Reed. The sappy near-romance between Wayne and Reed actually depicts a relationship that did happen ... What makes it the greatest WWII movie ever made is the honesty by which Ford portrays his theme of sacrifice. As the squadron is whittled down (as much by accident as by enemy action), men are left behind, creating some of the most gut-wrenching partings ever put on screen. The final loading of the last plane out of the Philippines is almost two painful to watch.Great post and I pretty much agree with your points.

Quick question for you though. Where would you rank In Harm's Way? It's one of my favorites, and I think Preminger does a good job of making a war flick while combining the "back stories" of the warriors.

Your thoughts?

[Olympic Fan]

First, let me say that I can't believe I forgot "Saving Private Ryan" and Sam Fuller's "Big Red One". That's what I get for doing it off the top of my head.

The opening 15-minutes of Ryan are an awesome (and accurate) depiction of the assault of Omaha Beach and how the GIs actually got off the beach (much more accuate than the one-big-blow-up-the-roadblock scene in Longest Day). The rest of the story rings true, although it is, of course, fictional.

A lot of crazy, disjointed things happen in Fuller' masterpiece, but that's because they actually happened to Fuller's squad in the First Infantry Division. It's an autobiographical piece -- the Robert Carradine character is a young Sam Fuller. For film buffs, what's interesting is how Fuller gets so much out of a tiny budget -- watch his Omaha Beach sequence and compare it to Ryan or Longest Day.

Okay, In Harm's Way -- loved the book and I enjoy the movie. In terms of factual accuracy ... well, it's fiction. But it knits together a lot of close-to-actual events. Obviously, Gavabutu is Guadalcanal ... the battle of the Palu Passage is Surigao Strait and the last battle when Wayne's cruiser is sunk is the Battle of Samar (the last two being parts of the larger Battle of Leyte Gulf; although to be accurate, there were no American cruisers off Samar that day -- just destroyers, DEs and jeep carriers). The character of Admiral Broderick looks a lot like General MacArthur (although MacArthur wasn't to blame for the long stalement on Guadalcanal ... The unaggressive Admiral Ghormley, who was largely responsible, is nothing like the brash, self-promoting character played here). Interesting that Henry Fonda, who played CincPac in this movie (never named), also plays Chester Nimitz, the real CincPac, in Midway. He plays him basically the same way in both films.

Although a little more realistic, I'd rate it as a fun movie to watch, right there with the two Alistair McLean stories -- The Guns of Navaronne and Where Eagles Dare.

One last thought ... my choice of the most underrated WWII movie ever made is "Catch 22". Based on Joseph Heller's comic masterpiece (which I think is the best WWII novel ever written). The violent shifts between slapstick comedy and sheer terror are unsettling. Very well filmed. Some of director Mike Nichols shots are downright amazing (there's one pullback from INSIDE the nose of a B-25 to outside, showing the plane flying in the middle of a formation of bombers that I still can't figure out). And Alan Arkin's Yossarian is a great acting performance.

Is it accurate? In details, no ... but in the larger sense, capturing the insanity of war, it's never been surpassed.

It's a movie I keep going back to over and over ... I see something new every time I watch it. For instance, the old man in the whorehouse is played by the great Marcel Dalio, the star of Renior's greatest films -- Grand Illusion and Rules of the Game (he also has a small role in Casablanca). Philip Roth has a cameo as a doctor.

Good trivia: Heller's novel was originally titled "Catch-18" but just before publication, Leon Uris hit the best-seller list with "Mila-18" about the Warsaw ghetto uprising. To avoid confusion, Catch-18 became "Catch-22."

[Tommac]

HBO's Band of Brothers is one of the best war movies/miniseries that I have seen. A more recent story, Black Hawk Down, the movie and the book were both excellent. Also liked Mel Gibson's We Were Soldiers.

[JBDuke]

Moviewise, which was better, "Midway" or "Tora! Tora! Tora!"?

Some of the other posters have already said many of the things I would have, but since you asked me, IMO, "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is easily the superior film. "Midway" is a compelling story, but it gets too caught up in trying to tell the story on a personal level, and in a cornball way. Whether it's the story of the Garth family, or the fake-feeling camaraderie of the younger Garth's fighter squadron, the script and the acting just aren't up to the story. "Tora!..." attempts to be and succeeds in being a more accurate telling of its story, principally because the screenwriters didn't make up any people to attempt to personalize the events. Some of the dialogue is invented, of course, but it's done so in a way that comes off much more authentic.

IMO, the greatest war movies are "Saving Private Ryan" and "Patton". "They Were Expendable", "The Longest Day", "Gettysburg", "Das Boat", and maybe "A Bridge Too Far" would be in my second tier, but there are LOTS of great war movies. Additionally, I haven't seen "In Harm's Way" or "Catch-22" or "The Big Red One", which are all critically acclaimed war movies mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

And then there's the whole group of movies that aren't what I think of as war movies, but they're set in or around a war - films such as "Lawrence of Arabia", "M*A*S*H", "Full Metal Jacket", "Stalag 17", etc.

[2535Miles]

Das Boot is great and should be scene in German with subtitles.
84C MoPic (84 Charlie MoPic) is also a great find. It's a low-budget Vietnam flic with no-name actors. One of my favorites.

[jimsumner]

No love for Thin Red Line? Or either of Eastwood's recent Iwo Jima movies? Does Slaughterhouse-5 qualify?

Agree with OF's praise of Catch-22. Makes my short list.

[jimbonelson]

although this is not as good as some of the others listed above, it is worth mentioning

[Jarhead]

HBO's Band of Brothers is one of the best war movies/miniseries that I have seen. A more recent story, Black Hawk Down, the movie and the book were both excellent. Also liked Mel Gibson's We Were Soldiers.
I have the full DVD set of Band of Brothers, and I think of it as one of the best done as far as overall story, the realism of the combat scenes, and the quality of the acting. Of equal quality from all angles is Saving Private Ryan. The premise of the story is unbelievable to some, but that's the way it was during WWII. The sole surviving son of any family was pulled out of action as quickly as possible. It made for a pretty good story, too. From the Viet Nam era my choice is full metal jacket. Again, very realistic in the combat scenes. I'm surprised that I didn't see From Here to Eternity mentioned. Did I miss it? That is one really good movie. The movie ends on Sunday morning, Dec 7, 1941. One from waaaay back is All Quiet on the Western Front. Some story, and the acting, although different in acting style, was tops.

[JBDuke]

...I'm surprised that I didn't see From Here to Eternity mentioned. Did I miss it? That is one really good movie. The movie ends on Sunday morning, Dec 7, 1941...

While I agree with you that "From Here to Eternity" is a great movie, it's really not a war movie, at least as I think of it. It's much more a character study of several men stationed in Hawaii as the "Day of Infamy" approaches. IMO, it's not a war movie like "The Great Escape" isn't a war movie.

[Olympic Fan]

No love for Thin Red Line? Or either of Eastwood's recent Iwo Jima movies? Does Slaughterhouse-5 qualify?

Agree with OF's praise of Catch-22. Makes my short list.

Definitely, no love for Thin Red Line -- self-indulgent $^%.

Flag of Our Fathers had its moments ... the depictions of the combat on Iwo Jima were well done. But most of the back home stuff was ridiculous -- I laughed out loud when the officer tells the soliders that they've got to sell war bonds because we were running out of money to finish the war ... he tells them that the Arabs were demanding gold up front for their oil (total BS -- in 1945, the British were still on control of the Saudi oil wells; we and the Russians had Iran under out thumb ... and we're weren't going to be cut off).

I was so disappointed by Flag that I never bothered to watch Letters from Iwo Jima.

As for Slaughterhouse I loved the book ... but I thought the movie was rather lame.

[jimsumner]

Another viewpoint.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15291564/

[JBDuke]

Another viewpoint.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15291564/

An interesting list, but they include a lot of films, such as "Casablanca", that I think are a stretch to call war films.

To me, war films feature soldiers as protagonists (Thus, "The Diary of Anne Frank" isn't a war film.) and involved in combat of some sort (Thus, "The Great Escape" and "Stalag 17" aren't war films, either.). Maybe that's just my own narrow definition, but to me, it's practically impossible to compare "Casablanca" and "Saving Private Ryan" as films of the same genre. "Casablanca" is a romantic drama set during a time of war. "Saving Private Ryan" is a war film. (Well, at least IMNSHO.)

[orrnot]

Am I right in thinking that Midway was screened with Sensarround? I recall being godawful impressed w/the rumble of the radial engines on the planes as they took off from the carriers. Sensarround (sp?) may provoke a whole new listing of old movies, but I can't recall any other than Midway and Earthquake. Like 3D for the butt!

Another oddball memory is the sweatstained look of Hal Holbrook's intelligence guys in their hot-as-hell secret codebreaking hideout.

I was just the right age when that movie came out and I have the Lego carrier to prove it.