I Understand Why People Dont Go To Duke Football Games

[kinghoops]

well i wrote a thread on this last nite after the game, but evidently it was erased, so i will try it again. im a huge duke fan, but hadnt attended a football game in many years, after last weeks game, i decided to see what coach cut had going on here. let me say, i was very impressed by the product on the field, 472 yards of offense, wow!! a break here or there and the outcome would have been different. i was disappointed by the size of the crowd, i would guess maybe 25k? hanna left the area around noon so that wasnt an excuse.

but what i did notice was the parking situation is god awful! not everyone can aford to be iron dukes and park near the gates of ww, so many people use 751, which is pitch black dark, you have to choose between walking in the street and risk getting hit by a car, or walking in the grass and not being able to see the thousands of oak tree roots that are waiting to break some ankles. you would think duke could work with the city of durham to get 751 lit and maybe close the outside lanes for foot traffic.

getting to the stadium early to walk around, you would think you had wondered out into the fairway of your local golf course, with all the golf carts riding around the concourse, is this really needed??

lastly , i was shocked to see northwestern didnt even go to the lockerroom at halftime, the just huddled in the middle of the practice field, with the lockerrooms being so far away, i could understand, couldnt something be done about that???

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

well i wrote a thread on this last nite after the game, but evidently it was erased, so i will try it again. im a huge duke fan, but hadnt attended a football game in many years, after last weeks game, i decided to see what coach cut had going on here. let me say, i was very impressed by the product on the field, 472 yards of offense, wow!! a break here or there and the outcome would have been different. i was disappointed by the size of the crowd, i would guess maybe 25k? hanna left the area around noon so that wasnt an excuse.

but what i did notice was the parking situation is god awful! not everyone can aford to be iron dukes and park near the gates of ww, so many people use 751, which is pitch black dark, you have to choose between walking in the street and risk getting hit by a car, or walking in the grass and not being able to see the thousands of oak tree roots that are waiting to break some ankles. you would think duke could work with the city of durham to get 751 lit and maybe close the outside lanes for foot traffic.

getting to the stadium early to walk around, you would think you had wondered out into the fairway of your local golf course, with all the golf carts riding around the concourse, is this really needed??

lastly , i was shocked to see northwestern didnt even go to the lockerroom at halftime, the just huddled in the middle of the practice field, with the lockerrooms being so far away, i could understand, couldnt something be done about that???
Having Youth Day rescheduled because of Hanna certainly reduced the number of people attending. There are also many folks holding back, taking a "wait and see" stance..... they'll be at the games when they're convinced Duke will win.

Duke has been playing catch up in dealing with parking and other aspects of game day preparation. Apparently the numbers of people who actually show up have jumped higher and faster than anyone expected. In addition, many areas where the general public could park years ago are now playing fields or have buildings on them. There was Game Day public parking available on campus for a fee.

I hope the "growing pains" of a program improving won't turn you away from future games!

[kinghoops]

no matter how good the product on the field is, the fan needs to be provided with a decent experience in order for them to come back, all i was saying is before any improvements are made to wallace wade, there should be something done to help with parking, duke owns plenty of wooded land, and all that needs to be done is clear it and thrown down some gravel.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

no matter how good the product on the field is, the fan needs to be provided with a decent experience in order for them to come back, all i was saying is before any improvements are made to wallace wade, there should be something done to help with parking, duke owns plenty of wooded land, and all that needs to be done is clear it and thrown down some gravel.
I understand what you're saying.

Here's a link with a diagram of parking for football. The public parking ($5 for a car) is in yellow. Maybe this information will be helpful for your next visit. This information is found on goduke.com under Tickets, then Game Day Policies and Information. While Iron Duke parking is filled for this year, next year you can have an Iron Duke parking pass (plus other benefits) for a $250/year contribution to the Iron Dukes.
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goduke.com%2F%2F pdf4%2F82411.pdf&images=yes

[kinghoops]

I understand what you're saying.

Here's a link with a diagram of parking for football. The public parking ($5 for a car) is in yellow. Maybe this information will be helpful for your next visit. This information is found on goduke.com under Tickets, then Game Day Policies and Information. While Iron Duke parking is filled for this year, next year you can have an Iron Duke parking pass (plus other benefits) for a $250/year contribution to the Iron Dukes.
http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goduke.com%2F%2F pdf4%2F82411.pdf&images=yes

thanks devil in the blue dress for the info, we did get there at 5pm and was following the signs to the on campus parking, i think 5 dollars is very reasonable to park, but the traffic was so tied up, that we turned back around( and we werent the only ones who did this)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

thanks devil in the blue dress for the info, we did get there at 5pm and was following the signs to the on campus parking, i think 5 dollars is very reasonable to park, but the traffic was so tied up, that we turned back around( and we werent the only ones who did this)
As the program becomes more successful, traffic and parking will be more and more time consuming no matter what the university does to make improvements. For many years during the decline of the program, I found I could arrive 30 minutes or so ahead of time for most games and zip right in. This year I'm leaving my house 5 hours prior to kickoff and arriving 3 hours ahead to be sure I can get into the lot where I have a permit to park. With success will come more and more congestion..... does this sound familiar? ..... like the traffic problems where lots of development occurs?

Please don't give up or give in to the frustrations of growth and improvement! We need you in Wallace Wade!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

thanks devil in the blue dress for the info, we did get there at 5pm and was following the signs to the on campus parking, i think 5 dollars is very reasonable to park, but the traffic was so tied up, that we turned back around( and we werent the only ones who did this)

Parking is a problem for almost every college football team. Have you ever been to Athens, GA for a game there? Heck, have you ever been to chapel hill for a game there? Parking is impossible, traffic a mess and the walks go on forever.

I have friends who came to town for the game last night and parked in the Chem Lot (public parking) about 6 pm. They had no problem getting in, but they new in advance where they were going. Now that you do, better luck next time. As for it being dark after the game (it was a night game, after all), wasn't the endless stream of headlights on 751 enough light for you to see where you were going?

Duke is not going to level Duke Forest so you can park. The environmentalists won't let them, even if the administration wanted to. Thank goodness Cameron only seats 9614, and most of the students walk to the game.

[kinghoops]

im just saying, if 751 is going to be used for parking, and since its a public highway, cant duke work with the city of durham to have some lighting installed?? the headlights from the traffic wasnt nearly enough to see, i seen several people using flashlights, or better yet, could some sidewalks be put down so you dont have to be worried about breaking an ankle or leg?

also, can anyone tell me why there are so many golf carts on the concourse??

[Edouble]

Parking is a problem for almost every college football team. Have you ever been to Athens, GA for a game there?

I have. Once when it was raining. An excellent point.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Parking is a problem for almost every college football team. Have you ever been to Athens, GA for a game there? Heck, have you ever been to chapel hill for a game there? Parking is impossible, traffic a mess and the walks go on forever.

I have friends who came to town for the game last night and parked in the Chem Lot (public parking) about 6 pm. They had no problem getting in, but they new in advance where they were going. Now that you do, better luck next time. As for it being dark after the game (it was a night game, after all), wasn't the endless stream of headlights on 751 enough light for you to see where you were going?

Duke is not going to level Duke Forest so you can park. The environmentalists won't let them, even if the administration wanted to. Thank goodness Cameron only seats 9614, and most of the students walk to the game.

Columbia, SC and Austin, TX are some more places where parking is a challenge and where traffic jams develop when the football team plays a home game. Success in the stadium = congestion for hours on game day.

[hughgs]

im just saying, if 751 is going to be used for parking, and since its a public highway, cant duke work with the city of durham to have some lighting installed?? the headlights from the traffic wasnt nearly enough to see, i seen several people using flashlights, or better yet, could some sidewalks be put down so you dont have to be worried about breaking an ankle or leg?

also, can anyone tell me why there are so many golf carts on the concourse??

Duke will prevent parking on 751 before they add lighting, etc. Park on campus.

The golf carts are probably used by the athletic department to get food to the vendors, shuttle handicapped people, run errands, etc. Why do you care, are they running you over?

[CameronBornAndBred]

thanks devil in the blue dress for the info, we did get there at 5pm and was following the signs to the on campus parking, i think 5 dollars is very reasonable to park, but the traffic was so tied up, that we turned back around( and we werent the only ones who did this)

We got there at 3:30, and breezed right into the Wannamaker lots. However, we tried the first lots in front of Baseball drive that are marked yellow on the map, and while empty were informed that those are now ID parking only. They even had a Public Parking sign there, the guy didn't pay much attention when I said that they should take it down.
Anyways, getting there early is important if you don't want to hike.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We got there at 3:30, and breezed right into the Wannamaker lots. However, we tried the first lots in front of Baseball drive that are marked yellow on the map, and while empty were informed that those are now ID parking only. They even had a Public Parking sign there, the guy didn't pay much attention when I said that they should take it down.
Anyways, getting there early is important if you don't want to hike.

That is because one of the ID parking lots was too wet to use, and just imagine the uproar if the reserved parking wasn't available - those folks have prepaid for reserved parking through their ID contributions. They were moved to the next closest available, and the lower part of the food chain (the general public) had to move elsewhere. That seems very fair to me.

Kinghoops, if you really want lights and sidewalks on 751, why don't you write a check to the city and/or county of Durham to pay for it. I'm not being facetious, just realistic.

[kinghoops]

Duke will prevent parking on 751 before they add lighting, etc. Park on campus.

The golf carts are probably used by the athletic department to get food to the vendors, shuttle handicapped people, run errands, etc. Why do you care, are they running you over?

exactly the smug attitude that keeps a lot of duke fans away from duke, i was asking the question about the carts because i seen many instances that they were causing congestion, i seen them shuttling people who looked far from handicapped, and not once did i see food being shuttled in any of these carts, see you ask a question on here and get a smart remark

[throatybeard]

no matter how good the product on the field is, the fan needs to be provided with a decent experience in order for them to come back, all i was saying is before any improvements are made to wallace wade, there should be something done to help with parking, duke owns plenty of wooded land, and all that needs to be done is clear it and thrown down some gravel.

That's one of the most incredibly destructive things you could do to campus.

[kinghoops]

That is because one of the ID parking lots was too wet to use, and just imagine the uproar if the reserved parking wasn't available - those folks have prepaid for reserved parking through their ID contributions. They were moved to the next closest available, and the lower part of the food chain (the general public) had to move elsewhere. That seems very fair to me.

Kinghoops, if you really want lights and sidewalks on 751, why don't you write a check to the city and/or county of Durham to pay for it. I'm not being facetious, just realistic.

see here we go with another smug remark, like i have said, i was asking a question, 751 is a state owned highway, and you cant tell me with the tax base duke university contributes to the county and to the state that lighting couldnt be feasible?? durham bends over backwards for the ball park downtown, i see why this couldnt be done for a public highway , and if i wrote a check to the city of durham it would surely bounce

[6th Man]

We got to campus about 6:00. Took the first left for public parking off of Cameron Blvd. (751). Pulled right in...got a spot immeditaely. Short walk to the school store, used the restroom. I'd have to say Duke is one of the more easy stadiums to park (and cheapest) of all college stadiums I have been to. Now personally I don't care about the visitor's locker room, but the stadium does need some definite improvements. I think they are coming. Unfortunately the commitment to football did not come until this summer. It will take some time, but the team and the coach are much improved.

I actually thought it was a good crowd based on the last several years. Especially with the students. I don't know if you have been in a while, but if you were disappointed in last night, be glad you didn't come last season. Way more electric this year. Personally I am excited and think we are heading in the right direction.

[Farlan]

No need to cut down trees or pay for a parking pass. Last two games I have parked in Parking Garage 1 on Trent Drive next to Duke South. They even had a shuttle bus to take us to Chapel Quad (not that you really need it since you are so close). In past years, I have come in on the LaSalle Street Extension (off of Erwin Road), parked on Circuit Drive and then walked up to Towerview -- takes 10 minutes to walk to the stadium. When you contrast this with going to a State or UNC game, I think Duke fans have great parking options!

[CathyCA]

Our Iron Dukes parking lot was closed last night due to flooding from Hanna. The kind folks with parking services put us in the next available lot, perhaps displacing other people, but thankfully not putting me in a perilous position in sinking mud when it was time for us to leave. Parking was a problem for lots of people last night, but I'm just glad that none of us had to be towed from the mud following the game.

As far as the golf carts go, some of them are used for shuttling around people like my mom and her friends, who give $$ to the Iron Dukes to provide scholarships for those players on the field. I'm grateful that my mom gets to have a comfortable experience while she's at Wally Wade. I'm thankful that the facilities folks are thoughtful enough to ask my mom if she'd like a ride in the golf cart. I'm also thankful that I'm healthy enough that I don't need to use the golf carts.

Even though I have a good parking space, I still get to the games early. I like to walk around campus, go to the student store, cheer on the players at their Blue Devil Walk, and visit with my college buds and meet my DBR friends before the game. The game day experience at Duke is so much fun, and I expect that it will only get better in time to come.

I hope that you, kinghoops, will have a better time at the next game, which, BTW, is a day game, so you won't be worrying about walking back to your car in the dark.

[kinghoops]

Our Iron Dukes parking lot was closed last night due to flooding from Hanna. The kind folks with parking services put us in the next available lot, perhaps displacing other people, but thankfully not putting me in a perilous position in sinking mud when it was time for us to leave. Parking was a problem for lots of people last night, but I'm just glad that none of us had to be towed from the mud following the game.

As far as the golf carts go, some of them are used for shuttling around people like my mom and her friends, who give $$ to the Iron Dukes to provide scholarships for those players on the field. I'm grateful that my mom gets to have a comfortable experience while she's at Wally Wade. I'm thankful that the facilities folks are thoughtful enough to ask my mom if she'd like a ride in the golf cart. I'm also thankful that I'm healthy enough that I don't need to use the golf carts.

Even though I have a good parking space, I still get to the games early. I like to walk around campus, go to the student store, cheer on the players at their Blue Devil Walk, and visit with my college buds and meet my DBR friends before the game. The game day experience at Duke is so much fun, and I expect that it will only get better in time to come.

I hope that you, kinghoops, will have a better time at the next game, which, BTW, is a day game, so you won't be worrying about walking back to your car in the dark.

ok, i should have known that i couldnt win this argument, and i see nothing wrong with using golf carts to escort the elderly or the handicap. i was pointing out the fact that i seen many golf carts there werent escorting anyone, and many times i observed people who were not in either group, being escorted in carts.

but that is not here nor there, duke has no problem filling up cameron (9314 )not 9614 as mentioned earlier, and i know i could never get my hands on season tickets for basketball, but duke needs the average fan , like myself to fill up 36k wallace wade with all duke fans. i was just conveying my experience as a fan, i liked everything i seen on the field, except for northwestern taking their halftime break in the middle of the practice field.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Regardless of parking opinion, I would suggest to all, especially like minded ones like Kinghoops, to get to the game early. I'm not an Iron Duke, but I completely agree with Ozzie's and Cathy's observations about the need to get those that paid extra the first and best available spots. Without the extra support that they provide, the Duke football experience will never improve. Besides parking, I suggest getting to the game early to experience what makes a Duke game completely worth your time. I attended the Devil Walk, that was great. I've tailgated with friends and family at both games, and it has been a blast. Watching the teams warm up gets your blood pumping for game time, and the atmosphere in WW has been so exciting this year with the students coming out in droves. I expect they will all be back Saturday too, the team gave them a show.
So anyways, get there early and experience it all, bring some chairs, food, and beer...and more importantly bring some friends!

[kinghoops]

to just set the record straight, i in no way feel i as a member of the general public that i should have the same parking privilages that an iron duke does, i know they contribute extra money for this and i agree they should have priority. i was just suggesting that duke try to enhance the experience for all people, if there is public parking that can be used, maybe give better information to the public. i commend the iron dukes for their support, be thankful you are in the position to support duke athletics. i hate the some people in this thread have the wrong idea, and i will say this once again, i really liked what i seen on the field!!

[hughgs]

exactly the smug attitude that keeps a lot of duke fans away from duke, i was asking the question about the carts because i seen many instances that they were causing congestion, i seen them shuttling people who looked far from handicapped, and not once did i see food being shuttled in any of these carts, see you ask a question on here and get a smart remark

If by smart remark you mean that I offered three reasons for why the carts are present and then asked why you cared, then yes it was a smart remark.

I've been to a lot of Duke events, from wrestling to baseball, and I've seen the carts used for all three purposes that I mentioned. Just because you didn't see food being shuttled doesn't mean it didn't happen. As far as shuttling handicapped fans I'm glad that you have the power to discern whether people are handicapped from watching them being shuttled around on a golf cart.

You can disagree with the answers but since you've never really attended a Duke football before I'm not sure what basis you're using for your complaint. And from that standpoint your post sounds like you feel entitled to the golf carts being removed from the concourse. Couple that with your responses to the 751 parking issues and it doesn't help your case.

While your certainly free to feel the way you do about the Duke football experience, if you sound like your entitled to lighting along 751 or removal of golf carts on the concourse then you shouldn't be surprised if others make "smart remarks".

[kinghoops]

If by smart remark you mean that I offered three reasons for why the carts are present and then asked why you cared, then yes it was a smart remark.

I've been to a lot of Duke events, from wrestling to baseball, and I've seen the carts used for all three purposes that I mentioned. Just because you didn't see food being shuttled doesn't mean it didn't happen. As far as shuttling handicapped fans I'm glad that you have the power to discern whether people are handicapped from watching them being shuttled around on a golf cart.

You can disagree with the answers but since you've never really attended a Duke football before I'm not sure what basis you're using for your complaint. And from that standpoint your post sounds like you feel entitled to the golf carts being removed from the concourse. Couple that with your responses to the 751 parking issues and it doesn't help your case.

While your certainly free to feel the way you do about the Duke football experience, if you sound like your entitled to lighting along 751 or removal of golf carts on the concourse then you shouldn't be surprised if others make "smart remarks".

as stated earlier, im not looking to argue with anyone, i never said i hadnt attended a duke football game, i have attended many over the years, just not in the recent past... i never asked for the golf carts to be removed from the concourse, i also didnt feel like i was entitled to lighting on 751, was just asking way there is none.. and by the way, no one really has touched this, was i the only duke fan who was noticed that northwestern spent the halftime break in the middle of the practice field, instead of some air conditioning on a very humid nite?

[Indoor66]

...was i the only duke fan who was noticed that northwestern spent the halftime break in the middle of the practice field, instead of some air conditioning on a very humid nite?

I don't know the answer to your question. Maybe you might call the Kevin White radio show - on WDNC - 620 - on Tuesday evening at 7:00 p.m. and ask the question. I do know that teams have huddled on that field since I have been attending football games at Wallace Wade since the very early 60's. In addition, the visitor's locker room is located there (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&KEY=&ATCLID=1178945) (scroll down to the bottom of the page)!

[devilirium]

White stated on his first show that the opponent's "halftime house" (which I thought was a seriously funny slip of the tongue) was going to be relocated because the offensive and defensive practice fields were going to need to be extended 20 yards apiece.

I would hope that the halftime house would be moved and accomodations provided. My .02 is that Duke is going to take care of the other things first (lowering the field, removing the track, putting in suites, improving the restrooms and concessions), but that they'll eventually replace the visitor's quarters.

On Cut's first show, he made the humorous comment to the team that "they were in a better situation than JMU would ever be" . He was talking about where each team was housed during the rain delay. Not many people really picked up on the slyness of that comment, but it was a subtle shot at the visitor's quarters. The administration is definitely aware of it.

[DU82]

as stated earlier, im not looking to argue with anyone, i never said i hadnt attended a duke football game, i have attended many over the years, just not in the recent past... i never asked for the golf carts to be removed from the concourse, i also didnt feel like i was entitled to lighting on 751, was just asking way there is none.. and by the way, no one really has touched this, was i the only duke fan who was noticed that northwestern spent the halftime break in the middle of the practice field, instead of some air conditioning on a very humid nite?

The past few years parking has been restricted on 751. I'm surprised it's back. It would be far safer if parking was not allowed there. As others have said, there are plenty of other options regarding parking that doesn't require you to walk on 751. As an example, you could have parked on East Campus and taken the bus over. Or you could have paid $5 to park in one of the public lots. You said you hadn't attended a game in quite a while, did you not first check out directions and locations to park? That's one of the things I do before going to any event.

One of the items that kept Duke from building new bathrooms/concessions this year is that they failed to provide an adequate pedestrian plan for the campus and specifically access to the stadium. Their plan for walking on 751 is to direct pedestrians to the trail parallel to the road on the golf course property. (It's worse closer to DU Road.)

Even though NC 751 is a State road, it is up to the city to request and provide lighting. They have not yet done so. (There are many areas in the city, and across the state, that have transitioned from rural to suburban or urban, and this is one of them. Actually, there's really no development on 751 between Science Drive and 15-501 that would suggest that lighting is necessary. The lighting situation is another reason parking shouldn't be allowed along 751.)

There's still challenges to the overall gameday operations that need to be improved, and traffic is one of them. One of the things that happened, as others pointed out, was that the grass field for Iron Duke parking was closed. An officer directed us to the B-School lot, but a lot of people wanted to stop to argue with him that they were allowed there. While they couild have followed instructions better/quicker, Duke police could have set up a sign saying that the lot was closed (instead of having a surly officer just point.) Unfortunately, the entry to Frank Bassett Drive is a funnel point, and any stoppage there really screws up traffic flow.

The golf carts help in many ways. One thing done this year is have some of the ushers act as "ambassadors" and roam the area. Some of the functions are helped by using the cart, either to get to "trouble areas" quicker, or help some that can't walk quite as far. Those in the stadium are trying to get things/people quickly from one place to another, but can cause problems when there's a crowded concourse.

If there's something that really bothers you, why don't you write to the Duke staff to offer suggestions.

[allenmurray]

but what i did notice was the parking situation is god awful! not everyone can aford to be iron dukes and park near the gates of ww, so many people use 751, which is pitch black dark, you have to choose between walking in the street and risk getting hit by a car, or walking in the grass and not being able to see the thousands of oak tree roots that are waiting to break some ankles. you would think duke could work with the city of durham to get 751 lit and maybe close the outside lanes for foot traffic.


Don't try to park on 751 - it is poorly lit and dangerous. Both the city and the University actually are trying to discourage folks from parking there, and therefore they are not going to improve it.

Stay on 15-501 to Morreene Road. Exit Morreene Road toward campus. When Morreene crosses Erwin the name changes to Science Drive. Take Science Drive to Curcuit Drive. Turn left on Curcuit Drive. There will be plenty of $5 parking on Curcuit Drive.

It is a slightly longer walk than parking on 751, but actually takes less time as there are good sidewalks and it is well lit. You will have about a 20 minute walk, but it will be a nice walk and you will be amongst Duke fans. Yesterday I exited 15-501 at 6:05 and was in WW by 6:40.

Have fun. The trip in to the stadium will seem better when you know what to expect. The University is working hard on the game experience for fans at WW, but it is a project that will take a few years.

[DU82]

Don't try to park on 751 - it is poorly lit and dangerous. Both the city and the University actually are trying to discourage folks from parking there, and therefore they are not going to improve it.

Stay on 15-501 to Morreene Road. Exit Morreene Road toward campus. When Morreene crosses Erwin the name changes to Science Drive. Take Science Drive to Curcuit Drive. Turn left on Curcuit Drive. There will be plenty of $5 parking on Curcuit Drive.

It is a slightly longer walk than parking on 751, but actually takes less time as there are good sidewalks and it is well lit. You will have about a 20 minute walk, but it will be a nice walk and you will be amongst Duke fans. Yesterday I exited 15-501 at 6:05 and was in WW by 6:40.



And the signs on 15-501 direct people without parking permits to the Morreene Road exit rather than 751. BTW, Morreene turns into Tower View, not Science Drive, across Erwin. Circuit Drive replaced Science Drive as the main E-W road on the north side of campus, once Science Drive was dead-ended by the new Engineering school additions.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

A new week's beginning and it's time to shift our attention to getting ready for the Navy game which features a theme of Military Appreciation Day.

How many are going to make it to the Devil Walk? It's a wonderful opportunity to see our coach and players up close and show our support!

[killerleft]

kinghoops, I have felt your pain. The walk is bad enough in the daytime. At night you will certainly stumble over roots and rocks. The car headlights provide a little light, but they provide much more glare, making it a "blind" walk much of the time.

Now you know. What is it the doctor says in that joke when the guy says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this."? Oh yeah, "Don't do that!".

allenmurray's parking advice is excellent. And, though it's maybe hard to believe, Duke's parking situation is far from the worst I've seen.

[kinghoops]

i appreciate all those who have shared parking information, by starting this thread, i wasnt trying to start an argument, i was just telling my opinion of me experience of a duke fan who hadnt been to a game for some time. if parking on 751 is not encouraged, i couldnt tell, there was plenty of folks park on 751(from the light at duke university, to at least a half mile back past the washington duke entrance, on both sides).

i was just thinking, i would like to see wallace wade full as much as anyone, but you are talking a crowd that would be 50 percent larger than the one last nite, is the parking close to adequate for this? i dont know that is why i was asking. but what really upset me, i wrote this thread last nite after getting home from the game and it was an erased for an unknown reason.

[BigDuke6]

I don't know, I may be in the minority but call me old fashion. I don't really appeal to making the visiting team comfortable while they are here. I know that the players have some where to get dress and shower but I could care less if they have to spend halftime outside on the practice field. I know the visiting locker room in Cameron can get quite warm and the Boston Garden was well known for steamy visiting locker rooms.

I'm not saying that we should not build a better visitors facility but it wouldn't be at the top of my list. Northwestern knew what they were getting into before they came and I am in no way ashamed.

[Uncle Drew]

well i wrote a thread on this last nite after the game, but evidently it was erased, so i will try it again. im a huge duke fan, but hadnt attended a football game in many years, after last weeks game, i decided to see what coach cut had going on here. let me say, i was very impressed by the product on the field, 472 yards of offense, wow!! a break here or there and the outcome would have been different. i was disappointed by the size of the crowd, i would guess maybe 25k? hanna left the area around noon so that wasnt an excuse.

but what i did notice was the parking situation is god awful! not everyone can aford to be iron dukes and park near the gates of ww, so many people use 751, which is pitch black dark, you have to choose between walking in the street and risk getting hit by a car, or walking in the grass and not being able to see the thousands of oak tree roots that are waiting to break some ankles. you would think duke could work with the city of durham to get 751 lit and maybe close the outside lanes for foot traffic.

getting to the stadium early to walk around, you would think you had wondered out into the fairway of your local golf course, with all the golf carts riding around the concourse, is this really needed??

lastly , i was shocked to see northwestern didnt even go to the lockerroom at halftime, the just huddled in the middle of the practice field, with the lockerrooms being so far away, i could understand, couldnt something be done about that???

I was unable to attend last nights game and had to listen to it on the Northwestern radio network. Even their announcers made fun of how the training rooms and locker rooms are so far from the stadium. They also mentioned how the track pushes the fans back away from the action. These are all things that are already known by Duke to be areas for focus so I won't get into possible solutions. However parking has ALWAYS been a sore spot with me when it comes to Duke football.

I realize the Duke campus has a look to it and the powers that be want to maintain that Gothic look. It is the most beautiful campus I've ever seen, but at some point common sense and style need to merge. It's basically like this, if you are not an Iron Duke by choice or by not being able to afford it you are going to have a considerable walk to any game at Duke. This is one area where non grads and the common man seem to be labeled as second class citizens to many people across NC. For what it's worth this is the same stance when attending games at Wake, UNC etc. If you shell out cash to be a booster for the school enjoy the perks, if not walk. Perhaps that is fair, after all if you are donating money to the school I guess you do deserve something for your funding. But for every booster for a school there are usually 500 Joe Factory Worker's, Suzie Q Nurse's and Danny Ditchdigger out there who want to attend a game every once in a while when they can afford it.

In a downtown area where there is going to be a lot of traffic they don't make parking lots. That is poor use of valuable space. No in these areas they make parking garages X number of stories tall depending on the need. Perhaps these schools don't want the campus area looking like an airport, but it's good enough for their hospitals so why not for their stadiums? You could take the present Duke parking around WW, build a few parking garages and save people thousands of steps. But I guess that is too much common sense. Back in 1989 my father had suffered a stroke but had gotten season tickets to all the Duke games. He had actually been an Iron Duke in previous seasons but at that time because of financial reasons wasn't. I would take him to the game and I had two choices. Park three miles away and make him walk with me, or drop him off as close as I could, go park and wait on me an hour or more to walk back.

I'm not saying he or I should have been given any special treatment. He wasn't alive long enough after his stroke to even go through the process of geting handicapped tags and permits. But this was someone who supported Duke football his entire life. Someone who actually went to the Rose Bowl game at WW. Someone who took me to every game at WW as a kid and plenty of games at Cameron. Duke needs to realize while they have great alums they also have quite a few of the common man out there who are fans. If Duke wants to have big crowds again at footbal games THAT is where the crowds will come from, NOT Iron Dukes and grads. There aren't enough in this area to put a dent in WW. Cameron is small enough where parking isn't that big a deal. And with all due respect to Athens, Knoxville and even Chapel Hill, WW isn't as big, and certainly not so big that fans should have to park in Cary and walk.

Keep the beautiful trees. Don't make any more parking lots. Just take a few of the ones they already have and build up instead of out. Decorate them with Duke Chapel slate rock if they wish. I'm sure durring day games in September they would be quite popular for the shade, yet alone convenience.

[DownEastDevil]

This year is the first time I've bought my season tickets in 8 years. It was not that I didn't want to go but as my kids grew up they did not want to travel with me 75 miles each way to see Duke lose every week. Now that I have grandkids old enough to enjoy the games I decided to get the family plan season package which is cheaper than high school game tickets so you can't beat the price. Now I don't like traffic either but when we rolled onto Erwin Road for the JMU game and it took us about 30 minutes to get a parking spot on Circuit Drive I told my wife this was great because I had never seen trafic like this at a footbal game before. The way I see it is we continue to compete and deal with the traffic or stink up the place and we can park across the street. I prefer the 20 minute walk myself. GO DEVILS!

[kinghoops]

I was unable to attend last nights game and had to listen to it on the Northwestern radio network. Even their announcers made fun of how the training rooms and locker rooms are so far from the stadium. They also mentioned how the track pushes the fans back away from the action. These are all things that are already known by Duke to be areas for focus so I won't get into possible solutions. However parking has ALWAYS been a sore spot with me when it comes to Duke football.

I realize the Duke campus has a look to it and the powers that be want to maintain that Gothic look. It is the most beautiful campus I've ever seen, but at some point common sense and style need to merge. It's basically like this, if you are not an Iron Duke by choice or by not being able to afford it you are going to have a considerable walk to any game at Duke. This is one area where non grads and the common man seem to be labeled as second class citizens to many people across NC. For what it's worth this is the same stance when attending games at Wake, UNC etc. If you shell out cash to be a booster for the school enjoy the perks, if not walk. Perhaps that is fair, after all if you are donating money to the school I guess you do deserve something for your funding. But for every booster for a school there are usually 500 Joe Factory Worker's, Suzie Q Nurse's and Danny Ditchdigger out there who want to attend a game every once in a while when they can afford it.

In a downtown area where there is going to be a lot of traffic they don't make parking lots. That is poor use of valuable space. No in these areas they make parking garages X number of stories tall depending on the need. Perhaps these schools don't want the campus area looking like an airport, but it's good enough for their hospitals so why not for their stadiums? You could take the present Duke parking around WW, build a few parking garages and save people thousands of steps. But I guess that is too much common sense. Back in 1989 my father had suffered a stroke but had gotten season tickets to all the Duke games. He had actually been an Iron Duke in previous seasons but at that time because of financial reasons wasn't. I would take him to the game and I had two choices. Park three miles away and make him walk with me, or drop him off as close as I could, go park and wait on me an hour or more to walk back.

I'm not saying he or I should have been given any special treatment. He wasn't alive long enough after his stroke to even go through the process of geting handicapped tags and permits. But this was someone who supported Duke football his entire life. Someone who actually went to the Rose Bowl game at WW. Someone who took me to every game at WW as a kid and plenty of games at Cameron. Duke needs to realize while they have great alums they also have quite a few of the common man out there who are fans. If Duke wants to have big crowds again at footbal games THAT is where the crowds will come from, NOT Iron Dukes and grads. There aren't enough in this area to put a dent in WW. Cameron is small enough where parking isn't that big a deal. And with all due respect to Athens, Knoxville and even Chapel Hill, WW isn't as big, and certainly not so big that fans should have to park in Cary and walk.

Keep the beautiful trees. Don't make any more parking lots. Just take a few of the ones they already have and build up instead of out. Decorate them with Duke Chapel slate rock if they wish. I'm sure durring day games in September they would be quite popular for the shade, yet alone convenience.

thanks latta 6970, i couldnt have said it better myself!! you stated the point i have been trying to make all day!!

[Uncle Drew]

thanks latta 6970, i couldnt have said it better myself!! you stated the point i have been trying to make all day!!

My uncle Tom Brown is mayor of Roxboro, he taught me well :D.

[Indoor66]

I was unable to attend last nights game and had to listen to it on the Northwestern radio network. Even their announcers made fun of how the training rooms and locker rooms are so far from the stadium. They also mentioned how the track pushes the fans back away from the action. These are all things that are already known by Duke to be areas for focus so I won't get into possible solutions. However parking has ALWAYS been a sore spot with me when it comes to Duke football.

I realize the Duke campus has a look to it and the powers that be want to maintain that Gothic look. It is the most beautiful campus I've ever seen, but at some point common sense and style need to merge. It's basically like this, if you are not an Iron Duke by choice or by not being able to afford it you are going to have a considerable walk to any game at Duke. This is one area where non grads and the common man seem to be labeled as second class citizens to many people across NC. For what it's worth this is the same stance when attending games at Wake, UNC etc. If you shell out cash to be a booster for the school enjoy the perks, if not walk. Perhaps that is fair, after all if you are donating money to the school I guess you do deserve something for your funding. But for every booster for a school there are usually 500 Joe Factory Worker's, Suzie Q Nurse's and Danny Ditchdigger out there who want to attend a game every once in a while when they can afford it.

In a downtown area where there is going to be a lot of traffic they don't make parking lots. That is poor use of valuable space. No in these areas they make parking garages X number of stories tall depending on the need. Perhaps these schools don't want the campus area looking like an airport, but it's good enough for their hospitals so why not for their stadiums? You could take the present Duke parking around WW, build a few parking garages and save people thousands of steps. But I guess that is too much common sense. Back in 1989 my father had suffered a stroke but had gotten season tickets to all the Duke games. He had actually been an Iron Duke in previous seasons but at that time because of financial reasons wasn't. I would take him to the game and I had two choices. Park three miles away and make him walk with me, or drop him off as close as I could, go park and wait on me an hour or more to walk back.

I'm not saying he or I should have been given any special treatment. He wasn't alive long enough after his stroke to even go through the process of geting handicapped tags and permits. But this was someone who supported Duke football his entire life. Someone who actually went to the Rose Bowl game at WW. Someone who took me to every game at WW as a kid and plenty of games at Cameron. Duke needs to realize while they have great alums they also have quite a few of the common man out there who are fans. If Duke wants to have big crowds again at footbal games THAT is where the crowds will come from, NOT Iron Dukes and grads. There aren't enough in this area to put a dent in WW. Cameron is small enough where parking isn't that big a deal. And with all due respect to Athens, Knoxville and even Chapel Hill, WW isn't as big, and certainly not so big that fans should have to park in Cary and walk.

Keep the beautiful trees. Don't make any more parking lots. Just take a few of the ones they already have and build up instead of out. Decorate them with Duke Chapel slate rock if they wish. I'm sure durring day games in September they would be quite popular for the shade, yet alone convenience.

An absolutely common sense approach that I heartily support. I wonder what the Admin geniuses think of an idea like this?

[CameronBornAndBred]

A new week's beginning and it's time to shift our attention to getting ready for the Navy game which features a theme of Military Appreciation Day.

How many are going to make it to the Devil Walk? It's a wonderful opportunity to see our coach and players up close and show our support!

I'll be there again..assuming I actually get my stepson out of bed at 6am! It was great meeting you, Ozzie and DevilDeac for Saturday's walk. High fived Cutcliffe, woohoo! It great being able to give the team wishes for a good game, and fun seeing the smiles the had.

[allenmurray]

I'm not sure that the expense of building parking garages that will be used maybe 10 times a year is a great way to spend money. I wonder if a satellite parking system with shuttle busses (that have a reserved route into the stadium) wouldn't be a solution that would be just as helpful to folks, but cost far, far less.

That team over in Chapel Hell does this for basketballl games ( parking at University Mall, $1.50 shuttle to the game) and it works remarkably well (so I hear from my UNC co-workers, I've never graced the Dean Dome).

[kinghoops]

I'm not sure that the expense of building parking garages that will be used maybe 10 times a year is a great way to spend money. I wonder if a satellite parking system with shuttle busses (that have a reserved route into the stadium) wouldn't be a solution that would be just as helpful to folks, but cost far, far less.

That team over in Chapel Hell does this for basketballl games ( parking at University Mall, $1.50 shuttle to the game) and it works remarkably well (so I hear from my UNC co-workers, I've never graced the Dean Dome).

i have graced the dean dome once, to see duke play in the east regionals in 1988, and the shuttle system from the mall to the dome worked great

[Indoor66]

I'm not sure that the expense of building parking garages that will be used maybe 10 times a year is a great way to spend money. I wonder if a satellite parking system with shuttle busses (that have a reserved route into the stadium) wouldn't be a solution that would be just as helpful to folks, but cost far, far less.

That team over in Chapel Hell does this for basketballl games ( parking at University Mall, $1.50 shuttle to the game) and it works remarkably well (so I hear from my UNC co-workers, I've never graced the Dean Dome).

Shuttles can also aid the situation, but I disagree that decks would only be used for football. If located along Wannamaker they could serve for basketball, soccer, LAX, baseball and for general campus parking. I would expect there to be a charge for parking and I think they could see a tremendous amount of use.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Shuttles can also aid the situation, but I disagree that decks would only be used for football. If located along Wannamaker they could serve for basketball, soccer, LAX, baseball and for general campus parking. I would expect there to be a charge for parking and I think they could see a tremendous amount of use.
Could be a source of unanticipated, but ongoing revenue.......

[Uncle Drew]

Truth be told it all depends on WHERE the parking decks would be put that would justify the added expense. But make no mistake there is expense maintaining parking lots either paved or gravel as well. There was a post about Coach Cut getting staff from other sports moved out of Duke football parking earlier this year. Use a parking garage and there is plenty of room, you don't have people hogging the shade spots in summer and it's one less area to scrape in winter.

Leave a few "Iron Duke" parking lots for tailgaters and all. But go around the campus, ALL over the campus and look at the constant building going on. I'm sorry but Duke is building bigger and better all the time. Funding for a parking deck or two (or three or four) is a matter of allocating funds. Parking shuttles is a good idea as well, but to be blunt where do people park to ride a shuttle? By that I mean if available parking is already used up and people are still parking on 751, where in Durham could they park? I am not being smart asking that, I honestly don't don't know Durham well enough tp propose a shuttle park area.

[kinghoops]

Truth be told it all depends on WHERE the parking decks would be put that would justify the added expense. But make no mistake there is expense maintaining parking lots either paved or gravel as well. There was a post about Coach Cut getting staff from other sports moved out of Duke football parking earlier this year. Use a parking garage and there is plenty of room, you don't have people hogging the shade spots in summer and it's one less area to scrape in winter.

Leave a few "Iron Duke" parking lots for tailgaters and all. But go around the campus, ALL over the campus and look at the constant building going on. I'm sorry but Duke is building bigger and better all the time. Funding for a parking deck or two (or three or four) is a matter of allocating funds. Parking shuttles is a good idea as well, but to be blunt where do people park to ride a shuttle? By that I mean if available parking is already used up and people are still parking on 751, where in Durham could they park? I am not being smart asking that, I honestly don't don't know Durham well enough tp propose a shuttle park area.
i would suggest the shopping center where kroger is on hillsbourgh road, this is where i met my brother for the game yesterday, looked like plenty of available spots and i dont think the merchants would care, more traffic could mean more business for them

[DU82]

Truth be told it all depends on WHERE the parking decks would be put that would justify the added expense. But make no mistake there is expense maintaining parking lots either paved or gravel as well. There was a post about Coach Cut getting staff from other sports moved out of Duke football parking earlier this year. Use a parking garage and there is plenty of room, you don't have people hogging the shade spots in summer and it's one less area to scrape in winter.

Leave a few "Iron Duke" parking lots for tailgaters and all. But go around the campus, ALL over the campus and look at the constant building going on. I'm sorry but Duke is building bigger and better all the time. Funding for a parking deck or two (or three or four) is a matter of allocating funds. Parking shuttles is a good idea as well, but to be blunt where do people park to ride a shuttle? By that I mean if available parking is already used up and people are still parking on 751, where in Durham could they park? I am not being smart asking that, I honestly don't don't know Durham well enough tp propose a shuttle park area.


Given the cost of parking structures vs. parking lots, the real estate has be to VERY expensive (or scarce) to make sense. Some of the DU property, especially around the medical center, warrants decks.

There's parking fairly close to the stadium, Circuit Drive (which should be accessed from Morreene, not Science Drive) has a lot of parking, as does the Gardens. Then there's East Campus. (That's closer than the lots serviced by the evil one's shuttle service. Plus the bus is still free, isn't it?)

Duke has submitted a parking plan to the City for approval (this in lieu of individual approvals for each building.) It made the pedestrian plan look good.
There are more decks coming, but none that I know of in the Bassett Drive area. I believe the next lot built (or in this case, paved) will be one on DU Road across from the Alumni office. Long term, it wouldn't surprise me to see the field on Bassett be paved, since it's already used part-time for parking. (This is the one that was closed to ID parking yesterday because of the rain.)

[MulletMan]

So yeah, I'm not going to bother to read all of the posts in the thread, but I will say there is NO REASON for people to be parking on 751 in order to go to football games... especially yesterday. Neither Circuit Lot or Chemistry were full last night at 6:50 PM. I know, because I parked there (in Circuit). I will guarentee that until those lots, and the Blue Zone are jammed to the gills, Duke is not going to be building parking garages for any reason other than the Medical Center (which they are doing right now).

If you can't find the parking on the way into campus, I would:
a. Follow the signs off of 751 that point you to multiple lots using multiple routes

or

b. Use the interwebs to find information on what lots to use, how to get there and where to find parking shuttles

Start Here (https://siren.auxserv.duke.edu/parking/visitors/Football.htm)

Come early next week, and find me in The Blue Zone for a Bloody Mary! GO DUKE!

[Uncle Drew]

So yeah, I'm not going to bother to read all of the posts in the thread, but I will say there is NO REASON for people to be parking on 751 in order to go to football games... especially yesterday. Neither Circuit Lot or Chemistry were full last night at 6:50 PM. I know, because I parked there (in Circuit). I will guarentee that until those lots, and the Blue Zone are jammed to the gills, Duke is not going to be building parking garages for any reason other than the Medical Center (which they are doing right now).

If you can't find the parking on the way into campus, I would:
a. Follow the signs off of 751 that point you to multiple lots using multiple routes

or

b. Use the interwebs to find information on what lots to use, how to get there and where to find parking shuttles

Start Here (https://siren.auxserv.duke.edu/parking/visitors/Football.htm)

Come early next week, and find me in The Blue Zone for a Bloody Mary! GO DUKE!

As I said I was not at the game yesterday, so parking conditions for the Northwestern game can only be discussed by people who were there. And Mullet is probably correct about Duke not building parking decks for anything other than the hospital any time soon. But I still say it is one possible solution that should be looked into.

As stated in a previous post there aren't enough Duke grads, employees and Iron Dukes in the area to fill Wallace Wade. This isn't basketball where demand for tickets exceeds the number of seats. Therefore logic says to fill WW, it is going to take Duke fans from every walk of life in the community. As much as grads and Iron Dukes love Duke and need little coaxing to attend, Joe Citizen and his family want to enjoy the entire experience.

The Yankees, Cowboys, Celtics can charge whatever they choose for food and drinks and make fans park far away. To get families and your average non grad Duke fan from the surrounding area in the stands things have to be made inviting / enticing for them. Duke IS adressing much of this now after years of sweeping things under the rug. Work is actually being done to the bathrooms and concessions. And I have no doubt the visiting locker rooms and training rooms will be addressed like all other areas in need of improvement.

Perhaps a shuttle bus is the answer. But Duke and whatever shopping center would have to have a game day agreement to allow parking and it would need to be organized. I suspect a lot of the people being seen shuttled on golf carts were in need of a shuttle bus. And while I don't have kids, I would hate to try to park a mile away and get two or three kids of any age to the stadium and into their seats. I think a shuttle is a good idea, if the price were fair and location for parking ideal. But I also see parking lots being filled and drivers herded to the next open lot when a parking deck would eliminate the need for several of the lots they have.

Above all winning will put people in the stands. That's what we all hope for and some of us actually believe it IS going to happen. While the crowd for Northwestern wasn't the same as JMU I'm looking towards the future. When Duke puts an exciting product on the field that is favored, which I see coming in the not too distant future more people will want to come. When that happens the powers that be need to have a better system of Shuttles in place, a parking deck or a Star Trek teleporter. Regardless of what the answer is, Duke needs to be thinking ahead. They apparently believe in Cut and the changes he wants to make and is making. They shouldn't be caught off guard should full houses become the norm at WW.

[throatybeard]

I'm not sure that the expense of building parking garages that will be used maybe 10 times a year is a great way to spend money. I wonder if a satellite parking system with shuttle busses (that have a reserved route into the stadium) wouldn't be a solution that would be just as helpful to folks, but cost far, far less.

That team over in Chapel Hell does this for basketballl games ( parking at University Mall, $1.50 shuttle to the game) and it works remarkably well (so I hear from my UNC co-workers, I've never graced the Dean Dome).

Exactly.

This entire thread demonstrates (a) absurd expectations about the logistical importance of 6 home football games and (b) typical American slavish idolatry of the automobile. God forbid non-handicapped people have to walk anywhere.

[Uncle Drew]

Exactly.

This entire thread demonstrates (a) absurd expectations about the logistical importance of 6 home football games and (b) typical American slavish idolatry of the automobile. God forbid non-handicapped people have to walk anywhere.

throatybeard, I couldn't agree more. We as Americans are so tied to our automobiles and I realize we are talking 6-7 home football games per year. And with the obesity of the Average American I agree excercise can't hurt most of us. That being said, I'm not within walking distance of Duke, nor can I ride my mountain bike that far, so I and others have to take automobiles. And when we get into the area of WW getting a parking space can be difficult if we aren't in the reserved parking crowd. I would be more than willing to go to South Square Mall for example, park there and take a shuttle bus in for a few bucks. But as far as I know that isn't an option.

I have only attended concerts at the Dean Dome but shuttles are available through out Chapel Hill and Carrboro to there and to Kenan. The point is, it's more organized and accessable. If Duke wants the people to attend, and the crowds start to get bigger in the future like we all hope and think they might. Well, these issues need focus now rather than later. (And with the cost of a gallon of gas being what it is, I think we all want to see as litte used as possible.) Regardless of what anyone wants to think or admit, I know parking has been a sore spot for Duke football games my entire lifetime. Call us lazy for not wanting to walk a mile and a half, or cheap for not joining the Iron Dukes if you choose. But when you go to the mall, logic says park as close to the door as possible. When as close to the gate as possible involves a backpack and a canteen the situation needs looking into. (And by you, I don't mean throaty, I mean anyone in general.)

[wisteria]

I went to school at around 6pm Saturday and found plenty of parking space along the circuit drive. I even thought to myself " huh..looks like the attendance isn't so great."

Circuit drive is where I park for either basketball game or football game. Sure it's a bit of walk, but it's well lit and I feel safe walking on campus. After the game, the traffic starting from the circuit drive is usually pretty light.

[ugadevil]

Is there an on-campus bus system that could be utilized for shuttle service?

[DevilWolf]

As mentioned before, parking for football games is going to be awful anywhere. All I know is that I used to get so mad when every road was blocked by cars with VT flags flying high. Now, the same # of cars and the same roads blocked, I get butterflies when I see all the cars with Duke flags on them. Traffic and bad parking is all part of the college football game day experience.

[PumpkinFunk]

Is there an on-campus bus system that could be utilized for shuttle service?

Yes, but it's also known to be fairly slow and inconsistent on the weekends. Parking on East Campus is generally tough at any time of the week, and with the student section growing, the fact that buses only run every 20 minutes probably makes it harder. That would be probably the best option for free parking. That being said: This year, they may have adopted the basketball game policy wherein they run a lot more buses right after the game ends until the large crowds are gone, which certainly would alleviate the problems that could be seen even last year with East-West transit after football.

[allenmurray]

Shuttles can also aid the situation, but I disagree that decks would only be used for football. If located along Wannamaker they could serve for basketball, soccer, LAX, baseball and for general campus parking. I would expect there to be a charge for parking and I think they could see a tremendous amount of use.

Yes, the would be used for other puroses, but they are not necessary for other purposes. Other than 25k+ football games there are very few events that genuinely cause a big enough parking problem at Duke to justify the cost of building parking decks (which are very expensive and would probably never pay for themselves by revenue generated.

[devildeac]

Yes, the would be used for other puroses, but they are not necessary for other purposes. Other than 25k+ football games there are very few events that genuinely cause a big enough parking problem at Duke to justify the cost of building parking decks (which are very expensive and would probably never pay for themselves by revenue generated.

We went to see the Stones a couple years ago at WW with 40K or more in attendance and anticipated the traffic. It was backed up on to the Durham Freeway about an hour before the opening act started. We parked at one of the hospital garages and walked about 25-30 minutes to WW. Nice exercise for the evening.

[DukeVu]

I am not a Duke grad but have been a fan for over 60 years. I really enjoy Duke football and Basketball but it is a 200 mile drive one way. I used to bring my family with me but now I just car pool with some friends. At my age and the long drive, having a parking hassle is not enticing for me. When Duke regularly had 40,000 fans in the past I have parked many times where Koskinen Stadium is today. I do hope that Parking is part of "the game plan" now underway.

It appears that Duke did not plan very well in the past or why in thunder would they put the Aquatic Center right up against WW Stadium? Also Koshkinen Stadium, Wilson Rec. and the Intermural Bldg jam packed to the Stadium eliminating parking possibilities? We can only hope that current planners are more far-sighted.

[Devilsfan]

If you're a true fan, you'll find a place to park.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

If you're a true fan, you'll find a place to park.

I don't know your age or general health, but I take your comment to be a bit of a dig at someone who's been a fan almost as many years as I have lived. I've observed this year in particular that many of Duke's faithful are much older and do have increased issues regarding mobility. At the Iron Duke event Saturday, I saw a number of people using walkers..... including some of our best football players from years ago.

[SharkD]

From the tone, I don't think many here realize that the "football lots" are used during the weekdays, for employee (and to a much lesser extent, student) parking. Duke is the second-largest employer in the state, and as such, parking for employees is at a premium -- there are waiting lists, and employees pay for the privilege -- sometimes more than the $5 per day that they charge for games.

If the university was to shut-down the 751 lot for 6-8 months, to build a parking deck, as some have suggested, the Law School, Fuqua, Sanford and Nicholas would all have conniptions, as it would mean that, at least 373 employees would have to find new parking for that time (probably more, due to carpooling). Oh, and the per-game parking and ticket costs are probably going to have to go up, too.

Trust me, there's enough weekend parking on campus for crowds upwards of 40,000 -- it just means using your legs from time to time. In my opinion, of greater import is improving the H-lots, which are dark, remote (some are on Hillsborough, at 9th street), rarely patrolled and the only option offered for most nurses working at Duke North and South, and a fair number for A&S employees, too.

You think it sucks to walk a third of a mile in September/October weather to attend a football game? Try walking a half mile (or more) to your car, in the dark, after a 12 hour hospital shift, every single day, in the rain, snow, sleet, tropical storm winds, etc.

[SharkD]

I don't know your age or general health, but I take your comment to be a bit of a dig at someone who's been a fan almost as many years as I have lived. I've observed this year in particular that many of Duke's faithful are much older and do have increased issues regarding mobility. At the Iron Duke event Saturday, I saw a number of people using walkers... including some of our best football players from years ago.

That may be, but if they're at the ID event, more likely than not, they're at least $250 donors and can get football parking passes. And, the reason there are so many of the decried "golf carts" in the concourse are to help exactly those people with mobility problems get around.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

That may be, but if they're at the ID event, more likely than not, they're at least $250 donors and can get football parking passes. And, the reason there are so many of the decried "golf carts" in the concourse are to help exactly those people with mobility problems get around.
I offered the Iron Duke/ Varsity Day event as an example of those I observed having mobility problems. Since it was also Varsity Day, some of those I noticed may have been attending as Varsity club members, not Iron Dukes.... another classification which cannot necessarily be determined by visual inspection. There were many older folks in the section where I sit and many more I observed on the concourse. I think it's another positive sign that we're turning the corner in the football program when so many older loyal fans turn out for the games now.

[merry]

A few comments:

I donate enough to the Iron Dukes to get basketball tickets but I was told that this year if I wanted to keep my I.D. football parking pass I had to have football season tickets too (i.e. just donating is not enough)

Leaving aside the additional challenges facing handicapped or less mobile folks, a real issue for Duke IMO is walkability/accessibility from outside campus. Duke is very walkable once you're there, but getting there on foot or bicycle or sometimes even in a car can be a hassle. Duke has very few off campus signs directing you to campus or main buildings on campus. Sure you can look at the parking maps on line before you leave home but even then event parking sometimes changes from event to event.

As for parking remotely at a local business or neighborhood and walking, as others have noted roads like 751 are just plain dangerous for pedestrians especially after dark. There's no point in just saying "Duke needs to create a sidewalk" or "Durham needs to add lighting"...the two entities need to work together to meet a common goal, assuming there is a common goal. Speaking as someone who went to Duke, loves Duke and lives very nearby, it's not alway clear to me that Duke wants people who don't go to school or work there to come on to campus. The bottom line is if you really want the general public to come to football games you have to at least make it clear how people are supposed to get to the football stadium, have staff on hand the day of the game who can politely direct people to other options if the main lots are full, and make the whole process a safe one. Shuttlebuses from a "park & ride" type location would be a great idea.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

A few comments:

I donate enough to the Iron Dukes to get basketball tickets but I was told that this year if I wanted to keep my I.D. football parking pass I had to have football season tickets too (i.e. just donating is not enough)

Leaving aside the additional challenges facing handicapped or less mobile folks, a real issue for Duke IMO is walkability/accessibility from outside campus. Duke is very walkable once you're there, but getting there on foot or bicycle or sometimes even in a car can be a hassle. Duke has very few off campus signs directing you to campus or main buildings on campus. Sure you can look at the parking maps on line before you leave home but even then event parking sometimes changes from event to event.

As for parking remotely at a local business or neighborhood and walking, as others have noted roads like 751 are just plain dangerous for pedestrians especially after dark. There's no point in just saying "Duke needs to create a sidewalk" or "Durham needs to add lighting"...the two entities need to work together to meet a common goal, assuming there is a common goal. Speaking as someone who went to Duke, loves Duke and lives very nearby, it's not alway clear to me that Duke wants people who don't go to school or work there to come on to campus. The bottom line is if you really want the general public to come to football games you have to at least make it clear how people are supposed to get to the football stadium, have staff on hand the day of the game who can politely direct people to other options if the main lots are full, and make the whole process a safe one. Shuttlebuses from a "park & ride" type location would be a great idea.

Your description of the lack of directional signage and Duke's seeming lack of interest in making the campus and school inviting is very apt and fits many aspects of so many attitudes among administrators over the years. At times it's an almost naive notion of what sort of common sense, nuts and bolts things are needed to operate the campus and to help people find their way (literally and figuratively). It's also a bit condescending, distant or arrogant. (I can say that based on my experiences and those of other family members. I'm a second generation Dukie.) I survived such experiences partly because I knew I'd still be a part of Duke long after those admins had passed through and were somewhere else. I do think the arrival of Dr. Kevin White and his appointment to the vice-president level of administration may offer an avenue for taking a new look at the campus and making some much needed adjustments.

[kinghoops]

A few comments:

I donate enough to the Iron Dukes to get basketball tickets but I was told that this year if I wanted to keep my I.D. football parking pass I had to have football season tickets too (i.e. just donating is not enough)

Leaving aside the additional challenges facing handicapped or less mobile folks, a real issue for Duke IMO is walkability/accessibility from outside campus. Duke is very walkable once you're there, but getting there on foot or bicycle or sometimes even in a car can be a hassle. Duke has very few off campus signs directing you to campus or main buildings on campus. Sure you can look at the parking maps on line before you leave home but even then event parking sometimes changes from event to event.

As for parking remotely at a local business or neighborhood and walking, as others have noted roads like 751 are just plain dangerous for pedestrians especially after dark. There's no point in just saying "Duke needs to create a sidewalk" or "Durham needs to add lighting"...the two entities need to work together to meet a common goal, assuming there is a common goal. Speaking as someone who went to Duke, loves Duke and lives very nearby, it's not alway clear to me that Duke wants people who don't go to school or work there to come on to campus. The bottom line is if you really want the general public to come to football games you have to at least make it clear how people are supposed to get to the football stadium, have staff on hand the day of the game who can politely direct people to other options if the main lots are full, and make the whole process a safe one. Shuttlebuses from a "park & ride" type location would be a great idea.

merry, thanks for your post, it was dead on as to what i had in mind when i started this thread, the whole point being i wanted to share my experience and or view as an average fan, who would very much like to attend more football games, if only the total experience was a little bit better, it was never about a lesser walk, it was about being felt welcome as an average john Q public fan, who has no affiliation with duke, besides being a very big fan

[mjones723]

Screw the parking...the restroom situation at Duke is the biggest joke I've ever seen. It's been sub-Roman Empire since I was a kid going to the games in the mid 80's. It's seriously a health hazard.

[Jarhead]

One of the items that kept Duke from building new bathrooms/concessions this year is that they failed to provide an adequate pedestrian plan for the campus and specifically access to the stadium.

From my point of view, the City of Durham was requiring Duke to add sidewalks along Basset Drive. That would have required the removal of the trees along Basset Drive. The University refused to remove the trees. The City withdrew its approval of the entire project, including the rest rooms and concessions. I can't help but wonder why.

Did anybody notice the absence of NC highway patrolmen? Durham City police were there, but I didn't see the patrolmen.

[diablesseblu]

From my point of view, the City of Durham was requiring Duke to add sidewalks along Basset Drive. That would have required the removal of the trees along Basset Drive. The University refused to remove the trees. The City withdrew its approval of the entire project, including the rest rooms and concessions. I can't help but wonder why.

Did anybody notice the absence of NC highway patrolmen? Durham City police were there, but I didn't see the patrolmen.


There were a lot of road closures all over the area and points east. My guess would be they were pulled off for those duties. Heard that ECU had to pull in cops from other eastern NC towns due to fewer available HP officers.

[hughgs]

From my point of view, the City of Durham was requiring Duke to add sidewalks along Basset Drive. That would have required the removal of the trees along Basset Drive. The University refused to remove the trees. The City withdrew its approval of the entire project, including the rest rooms and concessions. I can't help but wonder why.

Probably because the City thought it was an unsafe walk. It's bad enough during women's basketball games. Imagine the chaos due to increased attendance at the football games.

This was discussed in a previous thread. From what I remember of the thread the City seemed to think it was a piece of cake to add a sidewalk while Duke thought it would be prohibitively expensive due to the tree removal. The drift of the thread was that both sides were exaggerating.

[Jarhead]

Screw the parking...the restroom situation at Duke is the biggest joke I've ever seen. It's been sub-Roman Empire since I was a kid going to the games in the mid 80's. It's seriously a health hazard.
I agree that something has to be done about the rest room situation. As to the health hazard -- yeah, but not any more than those porta-johns we see at many stadiums. Rest assured that the renovations are a go, the money raising is in process, and the University is resubmitting its plans to the city. Maybe the city will be realistic, and allow those trees on Basset Drive to survive. Be patient. When the funds are raised the renovations will be done. Give it some time, and I guarantee that we all will be pleased. Don't expect the track facilities to survive.

[Johnboy]

There were a lot of road closures all over the area and points east. My guess would be they were pulled off for those duties. Heard that ECU had to pull in cops from other eastern NC towns due to fewer available HP officers.

They did indeed, and those officers from other towns (http://www.news-record.com/content/2008/09/09/article/ecu_chancellor_pledges_to_hold_police_accountable) (apparently Kinston and/or Lenoir County) got a little carried away with enforcement.

[kinghoops]

i will preface this thread that i have no affiliation with duke, besides being a very big duke fan. born and raised in durham, until coming to roxboro a couple years ago. i posted my experience of going to wallace wade on saturday nite, only to wake up on sunday to see it had been deleted. i have long been a reader of this board, didnt post a lot, but enjoyed reading.
i was dumped on in the thread i started by people on here that are big names to the board, and i was really disappointed by it.

in my thread, i stated my experience and my opinion, and was wanting to see what people that i knew had good information would say. i think everyone at duke, iron dukes included, needs to realize that they need people like myself. to support the football program and to attend games. i thought that 24 k at the game was kinda disappointing, and until the normal working man is felt welcome to attend games, the crowds wont be any bigger, unless duke just gives away all their tickets.

basketball, 9314, no problem, but wallace wade and 36k is a problem. just because i may not have to means to donate, doesnt make me any less a fan, and until common people are made to feel comfortable, the local support will not be there.

i realize that duke-durham government relations are strained, but just because we live in durham or was raised in durham, we fans shouldnt be felt unwelcome.

[DU82]

From my point of view, the City of Durham was requiring Duke to add sidewalks along Basset Drive. That would have required the removal of the trees along Basset Drive. The University refused to remove the trees. The City withdrew its approval of the entire project, including the rest rooms and concessions. I can't help but wonder why.


The City did not withdraw approval of the project, the staff indicated that Duke needed to meet the terms of the submittal process. Trask said that putting in that sidewalk would require cutting down the trees. That doesn't make it true. To my knowledge, the City indicated that more information regarding why it couldn't be done was needed, and no further information has been forthcoming.

In the previous thread (when this happened, back in the spring) I indicated that there were options that would not require cutting down most of those trees. Being out along Bassett these past two weeks, I believe those options are very viable.

The University submitted their parking plan to the City/County for approval (in May), per the agreement that both parties agreed to when the University requested rezoning. The plan was substandard and comments sent THEN, Duke finally met City staff about two weeks ago to discuss those comment. Those comments were repeated, however the administration insisted it go to the Development Review Board for approval, and (getting this second hand) tried to bully the board into approving it. They were lucky the plan was deferred instead of denied.

I have been to meetings with Duke and their consultants to discuss various transportation plans/projects, and for the most part those meetings have gone very well. But some administration types (who were not at the meetings I attended) are arrogant, and ignore/undo the things worked on by the professionals Duke hire.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I agree that something has to be done about the rest room situation. As to the health hazard -- yeah, but not any more than those porta-johns we see at many stadiums. Rest assured that the renovations are a go, the money raising is in process, and the University is resubmitting its plans to the city. Maybe the city will be realistic, and allow those trees on Basset Drive to survive. Be patient. When the funds are raised the renovations will be done. Give it some time, and I guarantee that we all will be pleased. Don't expect the track facilities to survive.

Since Dr. White has been a track athlete and coach, I suspect he'll work at coming up with something suitable when it comes time to relocate the track facilities.

[Defenserules]

I have read this post and the string of posts about why people shouldn't come to Duke football games and I am very very confused. It is really so easy to part for Duke football games. I am an Iron Duke at the lowest level and get a spot in the Wannamaker lot, which is a five minute walk to the stadium at the most. However, the "average fan" who does not want to pony up $250 for a guaranteed parking spot can park right across the street on the other side of the wannamaker lot for $5.00. That's pretty cheap and it couldn't be more than a five minute walk from Duke. I think that the key might be posting more signs, but my friends who have no connection to Duke and had never been to a game found the parking lot pretty easy.

[allenmurray]

I responded to your first thread about your Duke football experience with what I thought was a nice tone and some helpful advice. I give up.

I'm 48 years old. I had an L5-S1 discectomy and an L4-L5 laminectomy on August 21 (English translation - pretty major freakin' back surgery). On September 6 (just 16 days later) I arrived on Duke campus at 6:20 (having left my house in North Durham at 6:00). I parked on Curcuit Drive, one of the furthest lots from Wallace Wade, and walked the approximately 1.5 miles to the stadium. It was a beautiful day. I was there in plenty of time for the kickoff.

I am not an Iron Duke member, though I have been going to Duke football games for 6 years (with the very affordable family plan, 4 tickets to all 7 games for less than $200, or about $8 per ticket, easily within the range of the normal working man). Parking is $5 per game (easily within the range of the normal working man). You can park within 1.5 miles of the stadium (a brisk 20 minute or a leisurely 30 minute walk -easily within the range of all but the disabled or elderly).

At the last game you got bad advice and tried to park on 751. Just don't make that same mistake again; instead exit onto Morreene road and park in one of the well lit and safe lots that have sidewalks all the way to the stadium. You've been given good directions on how to do that.

I'm sorry, but if you are really a Duke fan you will quit whining. Let me say it one more time, real slowly and clearly, QUIT WHINING! Leave your house 30 minutes earlier, park a mile and a half away (far closer than at most major college football stadiums) enjoy the lovely walk through a beautiful campus, and enjoy the game. But if you can't do that, at least please QUIT WHINING.

As for the crowds will not be any bigger unless Duke gives away the tickets - you can get tickets for $8.00 each! What do you expect? That is as cheap as a movie. You can park for $5.00. What exzaactly is it you want Duke to do for you, drive you to the front gate? It is a freakin' 25 minute walk from the parking lot to the stadium. It costs $5 to park. It costs $8 for a ticket.

[ugadevil]

i will preface this thread that i have no affiliation with duke, besides being a very big duke fan. born and raised in durham, until coming to roxboro a couple years ago. i posted my experience of going to wallace wade on saturday nite, only to wake up on sunday to see it had been deleted. i have long been a reader of this board, didnt post a lot, but enjoyed reading.
i was dumped on in the thread i started by people on here that are big names to the board, and i was really disappointed by it.

in my thread, i stated my experience and my opinion, and was wanting to see what people that i knew had good information would say. i think everyone at duke, iron dukes included, needs to realize that they need people like myself. to support the football program and to attend games. i thought that 24 k at the game was kinda disappointing, and until the normal working man is felt welcome to attend games, the crowds wont be any bigger, unless duke just gives away all their tickets.

basketball, 9314, no problem, but wallace wade and 36k is a problem. just because i may not have to means to donate, doesnt make me any less a fan, and until common people are made to feel comfortable, the local support will not be there.

i realize that duke-durham government relations are strained, but just because we live in durham or was raised in durham, we fans shouldnt be felt unwelcome.

I thought your last thread was actually rather informative from quite a few posters who seem to understand parts of the situation. I get what you're saying about Duke needing fans, but I thought that's what you were saying in your last thread?

[RelativeWays]

When I went to the Duke-Wake game last year, parking was easy, and I expect parking will be just as easy for the Duke-Navy game which I will be attending this Saturday, can't wait!!!

Not sure really what this thread is about, I thought maybe it was about Duken needing to promote its football team to the surrounding area. Thats something they need to improve one. Wake Forest advertised all the time during Grobes first couple of years to get fans to games, now they sell out their season tickets so no more ad spots.

[BigDuke6]

I responded to your first thread about your Duke football experience with what I thought was a nice tone and some helpful advice. I give up.

I'm 48 years old. I had an L5-S1 discectomy and an L4-L5 laminectomy on August 21 (English translation - pretty major freakin' back surgery). On September 6 (just 16 days later) I arrived on Duke campus at 6:20 (having left my house in North Durham at 6:00). I parked on Curcuit Drive, one of the furthest lots from Wallace Wade, and walked the approximately 1.5 miles to the stadium. It was a beautiful day. I was there in plenty of time for the kickoff.

I am not an Iron Duke member, though I have been going to Duke football games for 6 years (with the very affordable family plan, 4 tickets to all 7 games for less than $200, or about $8 per ticket, easily within the range of the normal working man). Parking is $5 per game (easily within the range of the normal working man). You can park within 1.5 miles of the stadium (a brisk 20 minute or a leisurely 30 minute walk -easily within the range of all but the disabled or elderly).

At the last game you got bad advice and tried to park on 751. Just don't make that same mistake again; instead exit onto Morreene road and park in one of the well lit and safe lots that have sidewalks all the way to the stadium. You've been given good directions on how to do that.

I'm sorry, but if you are really a Duke fan you will quit whining. Let me say it one more time, real slowly and clearly, QUIT WHINING! Leave your house 30 minutes earlier, park a mile and a half away (far closer than at most major college football stadiums) enjoy the lovely walk through a beautiful campus, and enjoy the game. But if you can't do that, at least please QUIT WHINING.

As for the crowds will not be any bigger unless Duke gives away the tickets - you can get tickets for $8.00 each! What do you expect? That is as cheap as a movie. You can park for $5.00. What exzaactly is it you want Duke to do for you, drive you to the front gate? It is a freakin' 25 minute walk from the parking lot to the stadium. It costs $5 to park. It costs $8 for a ticket.

First, let me preface by saying that I don't post here a lot but I have read many threads on this board.
Secondly, I don't think anything you say will convince this guy. It was apparently obvious with the number of posts suggesting he could have found "safer" and more accessible parking in other lots. I will remind him and everybody that the past couple of years Duke has roped off parking on the side of 751. They did not rope it off last weekend due to the weather and several lots being closed. If he has lived in Durham all his life he should have known 751 does not provide enough space for parking would have assumed that there were other options.

Why we need another thread to discuss what Duke does for everybody in the region and for football games I have no idea. Duke does plenty for the normal working man in more ways than just making it pleasant for football games and it doesn't need listing.

I am beginning to question this guy's motives for posting because in every post he seems to come off sour and it is all directed at Duke or posters that are trying to provide him solutions/answers. It seems like if he is so concerned about this issue he should take that up with Duke instead of creating woes me posts in this forum.

Sorry, Rant over......

[budwom]

No one is more aware of the need to attract local residents to games more than David Cutcliffe. He's been promoting the team in the NC area like crazy, and behind the scenes he's been working incredibly hard to improve the game day experience.

I know this partly because of what I've read, and partly because I wrote him a letter months ago describing how the game day experience had to be improved, specifically with regard to parking. The issue isn't so much parking space per se (as many have correctly noted, almost all schools have traffic/parking problems on game days) but rather with a distinct lack of personnel and common sense when it comes to parking, e.g. opening the lots well before gametime (to facilitate tailgating), having logical traffic patterns, and replacing the brain-dead zombies who have manned the parking lots in recent years.

I wrote a letter describing specifically what could be improved, and I very soon thereafter received a personal note from the coach thanking me for my suggestions and telling me that he would be taking care to improve the game day situation.

Having attended the first two games, I can assure you that many changes have been made....and Cutcliffe has also stated that Duke needs to continue to improve.

My point is that Cutcliffe has known all along that he needs to entice local citizens to the games, and as he told me, the last thing he wants to do is get people to a game only for them to find out that the experience isn't pleasant.

As many have pointed out, it's also incumbent upon Duke fans to become acquainted with the parking situation, and deal with it accordingly. It isn't that difficult.

Through last season, I found I could arrive at the Iron Duke B-3 lot on Wannamaker five minutes before gametime and find plenty of parking spaces. Last weekend, even with a slightly reduced crowd due to Hanna, the lot was full an hour before gametime. So I'd suggest to anyone that if you don't know your way around the area, get to the game a few hours ahead of time, learn where the various lots are, and enjoy the pre-game experience.

[Jarhead]

Since Dr. White has been a track athlete and coach, I suspect he'll work at coming up with something suitable when it comes time to relocate the track facilities.
I think you are right. When I suggested not to expect the track facilities to survive I should have been more sensitive to the needs of the Track and Field program. Of course Dr. White will take care of Duke Track and Field, a sport with a long and glorious past. I think that finding a location for those facilities will be the least of his concerns. Financial costs would, more than likely be included in the budget for the upgrade of Wallace Wade Stadium.

[formerdukeathlete]

I am not a Duke grad but have been a fan for over 60 years. I really enjoy Duke football and Basketball but it is a 200 mile drive one way. I used to bring my family with me but now I just car pool with some friends. At my age and the long drive, having a parking hassle is not enticing for me. When Duke regularly had 40,000 fans in the past I have parked many times where Koskinen Stadium is today. I do hope that Parking is part of "the game plan" now underway.

It appears that Duke did not plan very well in the past or why in thunder would they put the Aquatic Center right up against WW Stadium? Also Koshkinen Stadium, Wilson Rec. and the Intermural Bldg jam packed to the Stadium eliminating parking possibilities? We can only hope that current planners are more far-sighted.

The Aquatic Center was a nice idea at the time - wanted to connect to Card, and it had a nice outdoor deck facing Wade. Yoh is squished in there and this raised construction costs per sq. foot, and also limited ability to include an indoor practice field. That said, the Murray building and soccer / lacrosse field are in pretty good places, imo.

IF Duke ever builds a new bball arena, it would likely be across 751, somewhere by the golf course, with additional parking. And, it would not be so far to walk from these lots to the stadium. Key about athletic complex parking, use the lots for both basketball and Football, of course, our needs are currently and easily met for CIS. Some shuttle, some walking, and I'd ask Jarhead who is most qualified as a Marine Corp senior officer with much experience in logistics, about what more could go where - and please no parking garages - use the money to fix the Football stadium and let folks get some exercise. If the BD Walk is going to be a tradition and the main quad opened up for tailgating, med complex parking makes some sense as well.