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NYC Duke Fan
03-24-2007, 08:08 PM
I think that the following are the top college coaches now, based upon recruiting and game day coaching :

Jim Calhoun, Billy Donovan,Tom Izzo, Bob Knight, Coach K, Lute Olson, Rick Pittino and Roy Williams. I did not rank them and you can if you want.

I think that Ben Howland will soon be joining the group.

dukie8
03-24-2007, 08:27 PM
I think that the following are the top college coaches now, based upon recruiting and game day coaching :

Jim Calhoun, Billy Donovan,Tom Izzo, Bob Knight, Coach K, Lute Olson, Rick Pittino and Roy Williams. I did not rank them and you can if you want.

I think that Ben Howland will soon be joining the group.

i wouldn't put lute on that list. yes, he is great recruiter and yes he won a nc 10 years ago, but he also probably is tops on the list of pissing away a lot of talent. this year is exhibit a. a great coach never would have wasted so much talent over the years. boeheim also is on the outside looking in on this list. way too much talent wasted over the years. i think that gary williams is close but not there. he does get a lot out of not that much talent.

Cameron
03-24-2007, 09:01 PM
I'd also take Calhoun off that list as well. I know he has a couple of national titles, but a great coach doesn't win one and then play in the NITs a couple of seasons later and then win the whole thing again and then miss the whole tournament again. That is a medicore coach who wins with talent alone, not on coaching ability. That is what that is.

dukie8
03-24-2007, 09:11 PM
I'd also take Calhoun off that list as well. I know he has a couple of national titles, but a great coach doesn't win one and then play in the NITs a couple of seasons later and then win the whole thing again and then miss the whole tournament again. That is a medicore coach who wins with talent alone, not on coaching ability. That is what that is.

that's ridiculous. you are aware of whom he recently has lost to the nba draft? what is he supposed to do when he loses gay, boone and m williams early last year? check out some other guys he lost to the nba lottery in recent years: okafor, gordon, villanueva and butler. this doesn't even get to the fact that, gulp, he outcoached k in 1999 and 2004. it's also not like he is plucking top 25 guys every year and rolling the ball out like, say lute does. guys like okafor were completely off the radar screen and passed over by duke. i'm not a fan of him (he is, afterall, from uconn) but the guy can flat out coach.

Buckeye Devil
03-24-2007, 09:23 PM
If the criteria is having won a national championship, you are excluding a lot of great coaches. All of the names you mentioned have a NC to their credit. If you would have asked this question in 1990, you would have excluded Coach K from the list? He would have had 4 Final 4's to his credit and 2 runner
up finishes, and great recruiting, but no national championships. Yet I dare say that he was among the top 6-8 coaches in 1990.

My point is, there are great coaches who are superb game day coaches who recruit top talent consistently, but have not yet won a national championship (and might not). That doesn't necessarily mean that they are not among the top coaches today.

dukie8
03-24-2007, 09:25 PM
If the criteria is having won a national championship, you are excluding a lot of great coaches. All of the names you mentioned have a NC to their credit. If you would have asked this question in 1990, you would have excluded Coach K from the list? He would have had 4 Final 4's to his credit and 2 runner
up finishes, and great recruiting, but no national championships. Yet I dare say that he was among the top 6-8 coaches in 1990.

My point is, there are great coaches who are superb game day coaches who recruit top talent consistently, but have not yet won a national championship (and might not). That doesn't necessarily mean that they are not among the top coaches today.

let's hear some examples and we can debate them. now that royo and boeheim have their nc's, i'm not aware of any current guys with 4 final 4s and no ring.

Troublemaker
03-24-2007, 09:30 PM
Agreed, Calhoun definitely has to be included. Great eye for talent, for finding diamonds in the rough. He develops them and then when they're upperclassmen, they compete for championships. I'm pretty much expecting another late tourney collision between Duke and UConn in 2009. Remember, UConn was an NIT team in 1997. Two years later, they won the national championship.

houstondukie
03-24-2007, 11:08 PM
tubby smith

Jumbo
03-24-2007, 11:17 PM
this doesn't even get to the fact that, gulp, he outcoached k in 1999 and 2004.

I thought Calhoun outcoached K in 1999. I thought K kicked his butt in 2004. I rarely blame games on officiating, but I will always believe Duke got hosed with some absolutely ridiculous calls in 2004, especially against Shelden and Shav. I thought K's decision to play Shelden in the first half was the right move. I thought Calhoun was idiotic for holding Okafor out for so long in the first half (saving a guy for the second half by sitting him that long with two fouls never matches the minutes he loses on the bench). Fact is, Duke was up nine late, got a couple of ridiculous whistles and awful breaks, and blew the lead. But I think K coached a better game, and that one, in some ways, burns me up more than the 1999 loss.

dukie8
03-24-2007, 11:51 PM
I thought Calhoun outcoached K in 1999. I thought K kicked his butt in 2004. I rarely blame games on officiating, but I will always believe Duke got hosed with some absolutely ridiculous calls in 2004, especially against Shelden and Shav. I thought K's decision to play Shelden in the first half was the right move. I thought Calhoun was idiotic for holding Okafor out for so long in the first half (saving a guy for the second half by sitting him that long with two fouls never matches the minutes he loses on the bench). Fact is, Duke was up nine late, got a couple of ridiculous whistles and awful breaks, and blew the lead. But I think K coached a better game, and that one, in some ways, burns me up more than the 1999 loss.

whether you agreed or not with calhoun's decision to pull okafor for what seemed like the entire first half, it worked as he fouled out our 2 bigs and then proceeded to murder us almost single-handedly for the win. how many big games was duke up big, only to blow the lead and lose? i guess it is better than unlv '90 but these types of losses sure are piling up.

FireOgilvie
03-24-2007, 11:58 PM
tubby smith

He's JV compared to the rest of these varsity coaches. He won a NC on Pitino's guys and then did an above average job before basically getting forced out at UK.

Jumbo
03-25-2007, 12:00 AM
whether you agreed or not with calhoun's decision to pull okafor for what seemed like the entire first half, it worked as he fouled out our 2 bigs and then proceeded to murder us almost single-handedly for the win. how many big games was duke up big, only to blow the lead and lose? i guess it is better than unlv '90 but these types of losses sure are piling up.

I think we tend to lose track of how many other teams blow big leads on a regular basis in the Tourney. In the last round alone, Tennessee and USC did it. Vandy had a handy lead over Georgetown. Butler was up early on Tennessee.

As far as that Duke-UConn game goes, there's no way I can second-guess Coach K because I was actively first-guessing Jim Calhoun the minute he sat Okafor. Seriously, there were just some ridiculous calls in the second half -- particularly against Shav and Shel -- that killed Duke. Otherwise, Calhoun allowed his team to get down by such a margin that they had to play an almost perfect last three minutes (and catch a few breaks from Duke) to win. Seriously, if any number of 10 plays goes another way (Ewing doesn't ignore his transition D responsibility and chase a rebound in the corner, leaving Anderson open for a transition three, Deng doesn't hoise a quick shot, etc.), UConn loses. That's way too close a margin, with way too much lucky involved, to consider Calhoun's strategy superior. I loved the way Coach K went for the jugular, believe that Calhoun never did make up for Okafor's lost minutes despite his finishing the game against Horvath, and, as I said, find that to be one of the most frustrating losses I've ever witnessed as a Duke fan.

The 1999 game? You can take Coach K to task for that one and I won't argue much. I thought UConn's game plan was better and K didn't adjust well, and his end-game play (one-on-one with Trajan) was a very poor choice. But I love the job he did in the 2004 game, and will always be bitter that he wasn't rewarded for it with a win.

mgtr
03-25-2007, 01:35 AM
So, if you were looking to hire a top coach, which ones of these guys are movable? Maybe Donavan, Izzo, and Pitino. Why go any deeper into the coaching cadre if you can get one of these? I would think Pitino is the most movable of the bunch, followed by Izzo and Donavan.

gw67
03-25-2007, 07:33 AM
If I was looking to hire a new coach, I would start with Few and Crean. Few, because he continues to be competitive with kids that the big schools pass by, his players improve while they are at Gonzaga, he is recognized as an outstanding offensive coach and he has a great demeanor on the bench. Crean is similar and on top of that he has good pedigree (Izzo) and the folks around the USA basketball team of a couple of years ago were amazed by his attention to detail and work habits and raved about his basketball knowledge. They may be bad guys (I doubt it.) but picking from afar, those would be my choices if I were allowed to pick.

gw67

Buckeye Devil
03-25-2007, 07:36 AM
let's hear some examples and we can debate them. now that royo and boeheim have their nc's, i'm not aware of any current guys with 4 final 4s and no ring.


I think the point is being missed with the Coach K 4 Final 4's point. I am not saying that there are coaches with that accomplishment, but simply that he would not have been on the list 17 years ago since he did not have a NC at that time.

My error was saying that a lot of great coaches would be excluded. For starters, I would put Howland there now, even if he doesn't win it all. He had great success at Pitt and now UCLA. I would put Thad Matta there now. He had a very near miss against Duke to get to the Final 4 in 2004 with Xavier and now has got there with OSU. He is a great recruiter, motivator, and game coach. I also am very impressed with John Thompson, Jr and the job he has done in resurrecting G'Town. Granted he is not there yet, but he soon will be, esp. if the Hoyas knock out the Heels today.

dukie8
03-25-2007, 08:31 AM
I think the point is being missed with the Coach K 4 Final 4's point. I am not saying that there are coaches with that accomplishment, but simply that he would not have been on the list 17 years ago since he did not have a NC at that time.

My error was saying that a lot of great coaches would be excluded. For starters, I would put Howland there now, even if he doesn't win it all. He had great success at Pitt and now UCLA. I would put Thad Matta there now. He had a very near miss against Duke to get to the Final 4 in 2004 with Xavier and now has got there with OSU. He is a great recruiter, motivator, and game coach. I also am very impressed with John Thompson, Jr and the job he has done in resurrecting G'Town. Granted he is not there yet, but he soon will be, esp. if the Hoyas knock out the Heels today.

there is no way that howland and matta are on this short list...yet. all of the other guys have ncs, multiple final 4s appearances and have been in the business a long time. matta hasn't even played in a final 4 (it will change next weekend) and i question calling him a great game coach. he has fantastic players this year and, in several games in the year's ncaat against inferior opponents, his team has not shown up ready to play. moreover, he has the most dominating guy in college basketball who has been vanishing on offense until what seems like a lightbulb goes off and they realize in the middle of the 2nd half that they need to start banging it in to him.

howland probably is the closest to making that list. he has back-to-back final 4s and this year is a wip which may lead to a nc. there is no doubt that he is a great coach and my guess is that within 5 years he will be on the list without question. he just needs a little more time. don't forget that his team this year is very young and he could return everyone.

thompson is way too young and isn't even in the group just under this list...yet. even if gtown beats unc today (god, i hope they do) and gets to the final 4, that isn't enough to match what the other guys have done over 20+ years.

i can't stand calipari because of how arrogant and corrupt he is but he also is on the sub list and could get on this list over the next 5 to 10 years -- particularly if he goes to uk. who negotiates a clothing allowance in his contract with a university?

dukie8
03-25-2007, 08:38 AM
I think we tend to lose track of how many other teams blow big leads on a regular basis in the Tourney. In the last round alone, Tennessee and USC did it. Vandy had a handy lead over Georgetown. Butler was up early on Tennessee.

As far as that Duke-UConn game goes, there's no way I can second-guess Coach K because I was actively first-guessing Jim Calhoun the minute he sat Okafor. Seriously, there were just some ridiculous calls in the second half -- particularly against Shav and Shel -- that killed Duke. Otherwise, Calhoun allowed his team to get down by such a margin that they had to play an almost perfect last three minutes (and catch a few breaks from Duke) to win. Seriously, if any number of 10 plays goes another way (Ewing doesn't ignore his transition D responsibility and chase a rebound in the corner, leaving Anderson open for a transition three, Deng doesn't hoise a quick shot, etc.), UConn loses. That's way too close a margin, with way too much lucky involved, to consider Calhoun's strategy superior. I loved the way Coach K went for the jugular, believe that Calhoun never did make up for Okafor's lost minutes despite his finishing the game against Horvath, and, as I said, find that to be one of the most frustrating losses I've ever witnessed as a Duke fan.

The 1999 game? You can take Coach K to task for that one and I won't argue much. I thought UConn's game plan was better and K didn't adjust well, and his end-game play (one-on-one with Trajan) was a very poor choice. But I love the job he did in the 2004 game, and will always be bitter that he wasn't rewarded for it with a win.

my biggest gripe with the 1999 game is that we had brand, by far the best player in the country, and he touched the ball so little on offense. he took 8 shots in the whole game and it wasn't like he was in foul trouble (he played 38 minutes). we did, however, hoist up 19 3-pointers. everyone remembers langdon trying to take moore off the dribble (which everyone knew wasn't his strength) but we never would have been in that situation if we had worked the ball in to brand more on offense and let him destroy voskuhl or whatever other goon they stuck on him.

3rdgenDukie
03-25-2007, 09:09 AM
my biggest gripe with the 1999 game is that we had brand, by far the best player in the country, and he touched the ball so little on offense. he took 8 shots in the whole game and it wasn't like he was in foul trouble (he played 38 minutes). we did, however, hoist up 19 3-pointers. everyone remembers langdon trying to take moore off the dribble (which everyone knew wasn't his strength) but we never would have been in that situation if we had worked the ball in to brand more on offense and let him destroy voskuhl or whatever other goon they stuck on him.

The problem is that what the officials let Voskuhl and Freeman get away with against Brand would have been considered a felony in many states. They absolutely brutalized him. I remember one replay in which Voskuhl literally wrapped up Brand and threw him to the floor. Packer was trying to describe what happened and was just speechless. Contrast that with the way Okafor was protected five years later, and it makes the bile rise in my gut.

BobbyFan
03-25-2007, 09:59 AM
my biggest gripe with the 1999 game is that we had brand, by far the best player in the country, and he touched the ball so little on offense. he took 8 shots in the whole game and it wasn't like he was in foul trouble (he played 38 minutes). we did, however, hoist up 19 3-pointers. everyone remembers langdon trying to take moore off the dribble (which everyone knew wasn't his strength) but we never would have been in that situation if we had worked the ball in to brand more on offense and let him destroy voskuhl or whatever other goon they stuck on him.

Calhoun had his PF come over to provide the hard double team. As powerful as Brand was, he couldn't overcome bodies of both Voskhul and Freeman. Battier was the beneficiary of the double teams, but he missed a few open shots as he was not yet the offensive player he would later become.

Coaching and strategy aside, the difference in the game was William Avery's poor performance. With Calhoun deciding to assign Moore to Langdon, Avery was free to exploit the defensively challenged El-Amin. For whatever reason, Avery was just completely out of rhythm and at times seemed clueless with the ball, as he never provided the offensive boost that Calhoun was clearly willing to concede.

If it weren't for Trajan's big performance (save for the last 2 possessions), the game wouldn't have been close.

keithg
03-25-2007, 11:43 AM
"that's ridiculous. you are aware of whom he recently has lost to the nba draft? what is he supposed to do when he loses gay, boone and m williams early last year?"

at least what Roy did last year..after he lost Williams, McCants, Felton and May. I think Calhoun is overrated.

dukie8
03-25-2007, 11:50 AM
"that's ridiculous. you are aware of whom he recently has lost to the nba draft? what is he supposed to do when he loses gay, boone and m williams early last year?"

at least what Roy did last year..after he lost Williams, McCants, Felton and May. I think Calhoun is overrated.


he should have at least been a 2 seed in the ncaat? so basically you think that he should be a 1 seed every year and for years he loses everyone early to the nba draft he should be a 2 seed? give me a break.

Buckeye Devil
03-25-2007, 03:28 PM
there is no way that howland and matta are on this short list...yet. all of the other guys have ncs, multiple final 4s appearances and have been in the business a long time. matta hasn't even played in a final 4 (it will change next weekend) and i question calling him a great game coach. he has fantastic players this year and, in several games in the year's ncaat against inferior opponents, his team has not shown up ready to play. moreover, he has the most dominating guy in college basketball who has been vanishing on offense until what seems like a lightbulb goes off and they realize in the middle of the 2nd half that they need to start banging it in to him.

howland probably is the closest to making that list. he has back-to-back final 4s and this year is a wip which may lead to a nc. there is no doubt that he is a great coach and my guess is that within 5 years he will be on the list without question. he just needs a little more time. don't forget that his team this year is very young and he could return everyone.

thompson is way too young and isn't even in the group just under this list...yet. even if gtown beats unc today (god, i hope they do) and gets to the final 4, that isn't enough to match what the other guys have done over 20+ years.

i can't stand calipari because of how arrogant and corrupt he is but he also is on the sub list and could get on this list over the next 5 to 10 years -- particularly if he goes to uk. who negotiates a clothing allowance in his contract with a university?

I think that you said that Howland was almost there in the original post that started this thread and I am not sure that it will take him another 5 years to get there. Re: Matta, granted he had good players this year but yet being able to recruit was a criterion of being a top coach. Also, he lost a lot from last year's conference champions and won with a lot of freshman playing this year. No NC yet for him and probably not this year with Florida in the mix, but what he did against Duke with a vastly inferior Xavier team in 2004 said a lot. Re: Thompson, Jr., all I said that he was impressive with the job he has done at G'Town. He's not there yet, but is on his way. Let's hope that the Hoyas can knock out the Heels today. And Calipari is a corrupt thug.

Maybe there should be another list for great "younger" coaches.

dukie8
03-31-2007, 07:14 PM
I think we tend to lose track of how many other teams blow big leads on a regular basis in the Tourney. In the last round alone, Tennessee and USC did it. Vandy had a handy lead over Georgetown. Butler was up early on Tennessee.

As far as that Duke-UConn game goes, there's no way I can second-guess Coach K because I was actively first-guessing Jim Calhoun the minute he sat Okafor. Seriously, there were just some ridiculous calls in the second half -- particularly against Shav and Shel -- that killed Duke. Otherwise, Calhoun allowed his team to get down by such a margin that they had to play an almost perfect last three minutes (and catch a few breaks from Duke) to win. Seriously, if any number of 10 plays goes another way (Ewing doesn't ignore his transition D responsibility and chase a rebound in the corner, leaving Anderson open for a transition three, Deng doesn't hoise a quick shot, etc.), UConn loses. That's way too close a margin, with way too much lucky involved, to consider Calhoun's strategy superior. I loved the way Coach K went for the jugular, believe that Calhoun never did make up for Okafor's lost minutes despite his finishing the game against Horvath, and, as I said, find that to be one of the most frustrating losses I've ever witnessed as a Duke fan.

The 1999 game? You can take Coach K to task for that one and I won't argue much. I thought UConn's game plan was better and K didn't adjust well, and his end-game play (one-on-one with Trajan) was a very poor choice. But I love the job he did in the 2004 game, and will always be bitter that he wasn't rewarded for it with a win.

that's 2 final 4 games in the last 4 years where a dominating big picked up 2 quick fouls and then proceeded to sit most of the first half -- only to be available and lead the team to a win in the last 10 minutes. going for the jugular is just plain stupid when it means that you will be crippled in the last 10 minutes of the game with your big guy either gone or with 4 fouls. matta made the correct call tonight -- as did calhoun in 2004.

Jumbo
03-31-2007, 07:29 PM
that's 2 final 4 games in the last 4 years where a dominating big picked up 2 quick fouls and then proceeded to sit most of the first half -- only to be available and lead the team to a win in the last 10 minutes. going for the jugular is just plain stupid when it means that you will be crippled in the last 10 minutes of the game with your big guy either gone or with 4 fouls. matta made the correct call tonight -- as did calhoun in 2004.

You have no comparison here. Hibbert didn't play with 3 fouls in the first half either. As soon as he picked up his second, he came out too. Both he and Oden had two fouls at the half.
Not sure why you're bringing this up now, either, or how you can conclude that "going for the jugular is just plain stupid" on a sample size of one game (as much as you want this game to count, it doesn't). Plus, you can never prove the other side of it -- what a team might have done had a guy not been sitting the entire first half with two fouls.

On a different note, this game is just another example why, in my mind, college basketball needs to go to a 6-foul rule. Too many players are in foul trouble in every key game; five fouls is a lousy rule.

dukie8
03-31-2007, 07:46 PM
i think that the bigger problem is the refs calling non-fouls as fouls. hibbert's 4th foul was a phantom foul. i also don't understand why these guys, who know how important they are to their teams, have such a propensity to go out and picked up stupid fouls. seriously, when were hibbert and oden NOT in foul trouble this tournament? it makes you appreciate even more how well shel was able to avoid getting in foul trouble for the better part of 3 years as he, too, knew that there wasn't anyone who could replace him.

Jumbo
03-31-2007, 07:55 PM
i think that the bigger problem is the refs calling non-fouls as fouls. hibbert's 4th foul was a phantom foul. i also don't understand why these guys, who know how important they are to their teams, have such a propensity to go out and picked up stupid fouls. seriously, when were hibbert and oden NOT in foul trouble this tournament? it makes you appreciate even more how well shel was able to avoid getting in foul trouble for the better part of 3 years as he, too, knew that there wasn't anyone who could replace him.

Totally agree about Shel. And it's sad that one of the games in which he did find foul trouble -- the UConn title game -- was one where someone DID step up in place of him. Shav was great ... except for the phantom fouls called on him too. Terribly officiated game.

Was Hibbert's fourth foul the one where he hit the guy in the face, or was got caught going for the rebound? Whichever was the face hit looked weak in real time, but was clear on the replay. The other one looked like a legit foul in real time and then looked ridiculous on the replay.

dukie8
03-31-2007, 07:59 PM
Totally agree about Shel. And it's sad that one of the games in which he did find foul trouble -- the UConn title game -- was one where someone DID step up in place of him. Shav was great ... except for the phantom fouls called on him too. Terribly officiated game.

Was Hibbert's fourth foul the one where he hit the guy in the face, or was got caught going for the rebound? Whichever was the face hit looked weak in real time, but was clear on the replay. The other one looked like a legit foul in real time and then looked ridiculous on the replay.

the face smack with #3. he definitely fouled him. #4 was when he was floating around the 3 point line after a miss and, other than the fact that there was body contact, there wasn't a foul.

Jumbo
03-31-2007, 08:03 PM
the face smack with #3. he definitely fouled him. #4 was when he was floating around the 3 point line after a miss and, other than the fact that there was body contact, there wasn't a foul.

I'm with you. I thought Hibbert held Hunter in live action. The replay certainly seemed to indicate otherwise.

Wander
04-01-2007, 02:53 PM
It's a joke to not include Calhoun. I don't like him either, but you can't argue with his accomplishments. He basically single-handedly made UConn what it is today - one of the best college basketball schools in the country.

CMS2478
04-02-2007, 07:31 AM
It's a joke to not include Calhoun. I don't like him either, but you can't argue with his accomplishments. He basically single-handedly made UConn what it is today - one of the best college basketball schools in the country.

One of the biggest jokes in college basketball.............Uh let's see = kid steals computer and still plays. I love how George Mason suspends their best player and UConn plays theirs and we see who went further. "Be sure your sins will find you out." ;)

Wander
04-02-2007, 10:20 AM
One of the biggest jokes in college basketball.............Uh let's see = kid steals computer and still plays. I love how George Mason suspends their best player and UConn plays theirs and we see who went further. "Be sure your sins will find you out." ;)

I agree the guy is a jerk but that doesn't change the fact that he's one of the best coaches in the sport today. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of his accomplishments or is just being biased.

greybeard
04-03-2007, 12:18 AM
Seth Greenberg and JTIII. Greenberg's concepts are terrific. His team is terrific to watch. I enjoy the way the guy sees and explains the game.

JTIII might be the best bench coach in the college game. As far as developing talent goes, is there anyone close? Think Hibbert when he arrived; think the best offensive center in the college game today, and he is still growing into his body. Terrifically versatile. Everybody said that Georgetown had to keep the score down to even be in the game against UNC. JTIII said, nobody yet has kept the score down against these guys. His boys went out and outscored UNC in a relatively high scoring game.

Lowe did an amazing job this year. I thought that they were playing an incredibly inventive offense at year's end. Hope things work out with his kid. This guy, along with Seth, could redefine the allignment of power in this league. IMO, both are that good.

tommy
04-03-2007, 03:10 AM
I think that the following are the top college coaches now, based upon recruiting and game day coaching :

Jim Calhoun, Billy Donovan,Tom Izzo, Bob Knight, Coach K, Lute Olson, Rick Pittino and Roy Williams. I did not rank them and you can if you want.

I think that Ben Howland will soon be joining the group.

I don't think Bob Knight is close to an elite coach anymore. Good coach, solid coach, but on the level of those other guys? No way. And there a lot of others who have surpassed him too. If we were talking in the 70s or 80s, sure, he's a no brainer as an elite coach. Not anymore. No NC's in 20 years -- not even close, actually -- his last stretch at Indiana was pretty mediocre in terms of recruiting and results, and while he's improved things at TexTech, come on, it's been nothing to really write home about.
It's like saying Joe Paterno is an elite college football coach. He was one then. Not one now.

NYC Duke Fan
03-24-2008, 03:22 AM
Right now in my opinion he is the best college basketball coach as far as recruiting and winning...I do emphasize "right now",

If UNC wins the tournament then I think that Roy Williams should be considered as Donovan's equal.

wisteria
03-24-2008, 03:39 AM
Right now in my opinion he is the best college basketball coach as far as recruiting and winning...I do emphasize "right now",

If UNC wins the tournament then I think that Roy Williams should be considered as Donovan's equal.

I need to see how BillyD does with some new players for a couple of years before I label him as the best coach. Roy Williams...as much as I hate him, he's definitely one of the best now.

devildownunder
03-24-2008, 05:20 AM
Right now in my opinion he is the best college basketball coach as far as recruiting and winning...I do emphasize "right now",

If UNC wins the tournament then I think that Roy Williams should be considered as Donovan's equal.


IMO, roy williams is already a better coach than bill donovan. And my reasons for that have absolutely nothing to do with friend, the Arizona alum, who thinks, and I quote "Roy is hot". Yeah, I don't get it either.

NYC Duke Fan
03-24-2008, 08:50 AM
I need to see how BillyD does with some new players for a couple of years before I label him as the best coach. Roy Williams...as much as I hate him, he's definitely one of the best now.

Aside from John Wooden and Coach K noone else has won back to back championships and while Wooden is probably acknowledged as the best UCLA's run was accomplished in a much different setting than today. Donovan lost his top players and still managed to win 20 games in the SEC. He is one of the games top recruiters, ( we lost Murphy to him already), and has proven he can coach.

In do deference to Coach K, right now I do not consider him to be the best coach in college basketball. I think that Donovan, Williams are better and I think that Coach K is in the second tier right now with Tom Izzo, Jim Calhoun, Ben Howland ...there maybe others but I am having a senior momemt. I do emphasize that I am talking about ," right now". Where Donovan and Williams have out-performed Coach K is in the area of recruiting

I think that Coach K's recruiting is not up to his previous standards and hopefully that will improve, ( although not next year's class )

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-24-2008, 10:00 AM
I loved the way Coach K went for the jugular, believe that Calhoun never did make up for Okafor's lost minutes despite his finishing the game against Horvath, and, as I said, find that to be one of the most frustrating losses I've ever witnessed as a Duke fan.

I totally agree that 2004 was a uniquely horrible game. Protecting a very solid lead we took terrible shots early in the shot clock, made some really poor defensive mistakes, and got royally screwed by some atrocious calls. IIRC, Jumbo, Okafor didn't finish the game against Nick since he fouled out as well. The final tally of fouls was Okafor 3, Shel, Shav, Nick 15 with a 2nd half discrepancy of Okafor 1, Duke's C's 9! If this were a rational world that game, along with the 2002 IU game would have killed any "Duke gets all the calls" nonsense dead.



at least what Roy did last year..after he lost Williams, McCants, Felton and May. I think Calhoun is overrated.

Throw in K losing 4 in the top 14 in 1999 but winning the ACC and going to the Sweet 16. Great coaches don't spend multiple seasons in the NIT in the "prime" of their career.