Dream Team v. Redeem Team

[dkbaseball]

I guess the main question to be answered is how much are young legs worth. Everyone seems to agree that the Dream Team had more talent, more ways of putting the ball in the hole. But Redeem Team was quite a bit younger, and got after you much harder on defense. Another point to consider is that Charlie Rosen, whose views I respect, regards four of the most prominent Dream-teamers as among the most overrated players ever to play in the NBA -- Barkley, Malone, Ewing and Robinson. If you discount those four somewhat, and Stcokton injured, you're left with Jordan and Pippen in their primes and playing great. Bird and Magic were pretty ancient by then.

I'll go with Redeem Team in an upset.

[roywhite]

I guess the main question to be answered is how much are young legs worth. Everyone seems to agree that the Dream Team had more talent, more ways of putting the ball in the hole. But Redeem Team was quite a bit younger, and got after you much harder on defense. Another point to consider is that Charlie Rosen, whose views I respect, regards four of the most prominent Dream-teamers as among the most overrated players ever to play in the NBA -- Barkley, Malone, Ewing and Robinson. If you discount those four somewhat, and Stcokton injured, you're left with Jordan and Pippen in their primes and playing great. Bird and Magic were pretty ancient by then.

I'll go with Redeem Team in an upset.

Makes sense to me. Bird in 1992 was near the end, and had a bad back, to the point where he actually would lie down near the bench when not playing. Magic in 1992 already had the HIV diagnosis, and was in the midst of a retire, un-retire, re-retire cycle.

The 1992 team shot very well and certainly shot FT's better. But the 2008 team has more super-athletes and more defense. The big fallacy in most of the current comparisons that show margin of victory, etc. is the quality of competition in 2008 vs 1992---way more top-level players on opposing teams than there was in 1992.

Coach K 2008 version carries the day, and the Redeem Team wins by 5 or 6 points.

[billybreen]

Sorry folks, but I don't think a team with Jordan, Pippen, and Barkley -- all in their physical primes -- could lose.

[vb5678]

I actually think that, on paper, the 1996 team was more impressive than both 92 and 2008. Think about it:

Frontline: A young, atheletic, mobile Shaq. Hakeem coming off of a finals MVP performance. And rounded out by 3 hall of famers in Barkley, Malone, and David Robinson, all still in their primes as well.

Wings: Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway, back when BOTH were drawing accolades as the "next Jordan." Dead-eye and very clutch shooting with Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond. And Scottie Pippen, at the peak of his abilities (he was one year removed from an MVP worthy season without Jordan in Chicago).

PG: Gary Payton was a defensive monster in 96, and Stockton was still Stockton.

I don't really see any weaknessess in this team. The frontline might be the best ever assembled. They had lockdown defenders at every position (Hakeem for big men, Pippen for wings, Payton as a guard). The had amazing atheleticism in both the front and back court. Nobody here was at the end of their career, with maybe only Barkley starting to fade. Shooting was not a problem, ball handling wouldn't be a problem (two HOF PGs and several point forwards).

I think 92 would be outhustled and outatheleted by 96, although Jordan would be the biggest matchup problem.

For 2008, I think the newer frontline would get dominated by the 96 team, and the wings are a pretty even match. Plus 96 has better shooters.

[kessler]

a dream vs. redeem could be closer then expected. not sure who would win but if kobe and lebron could take over again. it could be tight

[taiw93]

Many of you are forgetting, however, that the Dream Team would absolutely DOMINATE the interior. Think about it:Barkley, Malone, Ewing, and Robinson vs. Chris Bosh and Dwight Howard. That's Four Hall-of-Fame caliber players against a young phenom and a good combo forward. Redeem Team would get killed on the inside even if Howard were able to avoid foul trouble (which, in this case, would be unlikely). Oh, and the Dream Team does have a guy named Michael Jordan, who, in my opinion, almost negates the talent of Kobe and LeBron, and they also have a group of good defensive gaurds. Coach K and Jerry Coangelo built this team to match up well against international competition, and they were successful in doing that. However, a small team like the 2008 squad would not stand a chance against the bigs of the Dream Team.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Sorry folks, but I don't think a team with Jordan, Pippen, and Barkley -- all in their physical primes -- could lose.

Plus Ewing. They had the size, speed and talent to take the new crowd to school.

[ice-9]

We seem to be going back to the assumption that a collection of individual talent trumps good teamwork. Haven't we learned anything from the past few years? On paper, shouldn't a team of Marbury, Iverson, Duncan, Boozer, LeBron, Marion, Wade, Jefferson, Odom etc. kill some no-name team from Puerto Rico?

Will the Redeem team beat the Dream team as they were constituted at the time? Hell if I know.

But I do know the Redeem team played like a team. Dream team? Hard to say. Against good competition, will Jordan start hogging the ball at the expense of other players? Will Barkley's temper get the best of him? What if Malone starts missing shots -- will he keep chucking? How will the Dream team defend the pick and roll? Backdoor cuts? Zone defenses? We can only speculate, but the Redeem team has proven that it can get it done in the face of all those things.

[billybreen]

But I do know the Redeem team played like a team. Dream team? Hard to say. Against good competition, will Jordan start hogging the ball at the expense of other players?

Name one player in the history of the game that knew better how to take over a game when the chips were down. For this reason alone, you have to give the nod to the original Dream Team. Jordan wouldn't have allowed them to lose, and I don't think anyone on our current team would win a battle of wills with him.

[elvis14]

Sorry folks, but I don't think a team with Jordan, Pippen, and Barkley -- all in their physical primes -- could lose.


Plus Ewing. They had the size, speed and talent to take the new crowd to school.

As much I love this year's team, I'm sorry but they couldn't handle the Dream Team from 1992. In addition to the four players listed above, you have Malone...in his prime when he was very athletic, an absolute monster. Bird who, even with a bad back, could shoot the 3 better than anyone on this years team. Etc. Etc. Nothing against this years team but you have to think about how good the older guys were in 1992, not the last time you saw them play. In 1992, some of these guys were the best ever at their respective positions!

[billybreen]

As much I love this year's team, I'm sorry but they couldn't handle the Dream Team from 1992. In addition to the four players listed above, you have Malone...in his prime when he was very athletic, an absolute monster. Bird who, even with a bad back, could shoot the 3 better than anyone on this years team. Etc. Etc. Nothing against this years team but you have to think about how good the older guys were in 1992, not the last time you saw them play. In 1992, some of these guys were the best ever at their respective positions!

Indeed. 10 of the top 50 NBA players up to that point (as published by the NBA in 1996) were on that team.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Didn't a Bobby Hurley-led practice team take it to the Dream Team for one game?

[billybreen]

Didn't a Bobby Hurley-led practice team take it to the Dream Team for one game?

Yes. Patrick Davidson played center.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Yes. Patrick Davidson played center.

Patrick Ewing would have lasted a few years longer in his career if it weren't for Davidson's brutality that day.

[weezie]

Good one!

But I really think LeBron would be more than a match for the Dreamboats.

[ice-9]

Name one player in the history of the game that knew better how to take over a game when the chips were down. For this reason alone, you have to give the nod to the original Dream Team. Jordan wouldn't have allowed them to lose, and I don't think anyone on our current team would win a battle of wills with him.

I dunno...Tiger Woods??

Kidding, but seriously, I know it's nice and poetic to think of Jordan as a guy who could win based on sheer will alone. But this is a team game and if Jordan plays like it's 1 against 5...then I'll take 5.

[Richard Berg]

vb5678 makes great points. I would rank the teams 1996 > 2008 > 1992.

[billybreen]

I dunno...Tiger Woods??

Kidding, but seriously, I know it's nice and poetic to think of Jordan as a guy who could win based on sheer will alone. But this is a team game and if Jordan plays like it's 1 against 5...then I'll take 5.

Tiger Woods is in a different game, but I don't disagree that he's ridiculously clutch.

It was a team game when Jordan won six rings. I'm saying he knew how to get the rest of his team up for a game but take over in spots that needed it. I wouldn't expect Jordan to go 1 on 5.

[ugadevil]

It was a team game when Jordan won six rings. I'm saying he knew how to get the rest of his team up for a game but take over in spots that needed it. I wouldn't expect Jordan to go 1 on 5.

Amen! Steve Kerr (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2BlOTeoZVE&feature=related) would agree.

[DBFAN]

I am not so sold on the Dream team, here are my reasons

1. The rest of the world just absolutely stunk at basketball when they played. Easy to look dominant when you are playing middle school calibur teams.

2. I am not the biggest Jordan fan of all time, just because I feel that the 90's was (were) (which do I use) the most watered down decade the NBA ever had. Think about how many big time players there are now, James, Bryant, Mcrady, Garnette, (Spelling on Both?) etc.... In the 90's it was Jordan, and maybe Reggie, and some others maybe. Bird and Magic were done, Ewing may as well have been done.

3. Did no one see Bryant take over, people keep saying that Jordan would not have allowed them to lose, what about Kobe. He seems to have a pretty strong will himself.

4. All of those big men did not have a fraction of the Athleticism that Bosh and Howard do. Even when Barkley was in his prime, he was still a little chunky.

5. The most important reason to me is, who on the Dream team was going to be the defensive stopper on the perimeter, Jordan could do a lot, but he could not guard two players at once.

"Nostalgia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days." ~Doug Larson

[ugadevil]

5. The most important reason to me is, who on the Dream team was going to be the defensive stopper on the perimeter, Jordan could do a lot, but he could not guard two players at once.

"Nostalgia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days." ~Doug Larson

I'd think Scottie Pippen would be the defensive stopper for that time. I may be wrong but I believe Pippen is regarded as one of the best defenders of all time? Give me any of the guards from the '92 team over this year's version of Jason Kidd.

[billybreen]

I am not so sold on the Dream team, here are my reasons

1. The rest of the world just absolutely stunk at basketball when they played. Easy to look dominant when you are playing middle school calibur teams.

2. I am not the biggest Jordan fan of all time, just because I feel that the 90's was (were) (which do I use) the most watered down decade the NBA ever had. Think about how many big time players there are now, James, Bryant, Mcrady, Garnette, (Spelling on Both?) etc.... In the 90's it was Jordan, and maybe Reggie, and some others maybe. Bird and Magic were done, Ewing may as well have been done.

3. Did no one see Bryant take over, people keep saying that Jordan would not have allowed them to lose, what about Kobe. He seems to have a pretty strong will himself.

4. All of those big men did not have a fraction of the Athleticism that Bosh and Howard do. Even when Barkley was in his prime, he was still a little chunky.

5. The most important reason to me is, who on the Dream team was going to be the defensive stopper on the perimeter, Jordan could do a lot, but he could not guard two players at once.

"Nostalgia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days." ~Doug Larson

I disagree with just about everything you just said.

1. I don't disagree with this, except for 'caliber' ;)

2. Completely disagree with this. If you think McGrady is big time, evidently you haven't watched the playoffs in the past 5 years. Saying that the 90s were Jordan and Reggie is just a bizarre claim. Shaq, Little Penny, pre-injury Grant Hill, the Dream, Pippen, Jordan, Stockton, Malone, Robinson, Barkley, the Glove, Starks, Ewing, Grandmama, etc. There's talent in that list. I'm not saying the 90s were the best era of basketball, but saying they are the most watered down is bogus.

3. Kobe is strong-willed, but he wasn't strong enough willed to win the NBA Championship this year. As mentioned before, Jordan was 6/6 in Finals (and the MVP each time).

4. Did you see the way FIBA games are called? Barkley could clear the lane with his butt, and they would never call it. The athleticism of modern big men wouldn't be a huge advantage.

5. This is probably the most misguided claim. From Wikipedia: "Pippen became known for stellar defense in addition to his consistent scoring, earning 10 NBA All-Defensive Team nods, including 8 on the first team." With his wingspan and athleticism, Pippen was one of the all time greats defending the wing.

[billybreen]

I'd think Scottie Pippen would be the defensive stopper for that time. I may be wrong but I believe Pippen is regarded as one of the best defenders of all time? Give me any of the guards from the '92 team over this year's version of Jason Kidd.

You beat me to it. :)

[BobbyFan]

The Dream Team members formed a more balanced unit that complimented one other better. People often forget about the play of Chris Mullin - he was perfect for the Olympics and was everything Michael Redd was supposed to be and much more. But more importantly, although the Redeem Team played excellent defense, the Dream Team was simply on another level with Robinson and Ewing manning the paint, and Pippen and Jordan wreaking havoc on the perimeter.

If Garnett and Duncan had opted to play, it would have been a fascinating matchup. But as it is, 1992 is still firmly at the top of the pedestal. 1996 vs 2008 would be closer, but I'd still go with 1996 by a hair.


Another point to consider is that Charlie Rosen, whose views I respect

Really? He of the "the best LeBron will ever be is an average NBA player" foresight?

[dkbaseball]

Really? He of the "the best LeBron will ever be is an average NBA player" foresight?

Say it ain't so, Chas.

[mapei]

I think the dreamers beat the redeemers 4-2 in a best-of-seven series, the redeemers fully capable of winning on a given day in a single-elimination situation.

But it wouldn't be that close as to whom I'd be pulling for. I find the redeemers much easier to like. No corporate logo whining, for starters.