David Harding commits to Duke

[watzone]

Cutcliffe and company continue their recruiting success by getting a commitment from David Harding an OL from Orlando. He picked Duke over Florida State and South Carolina. Duke now has 22 commitments in 09.

http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/category/duke-football/

[Bluedog]

Great! It's amazing to me how much Duke is recruiting in-region. 20 out of the 22 recruits are from the southeast (NC 9 , SC 3, FL 3, GA 4, VA 1). One is from Cali, and one is from MD.

[roywhite]

Thanks, Watzone, for the news, and continued great job by Coach Cutcliffe and his staff. In reading a little about Harding, he seems to be a very highly regarded prospect who had a number of offers. In recruiting parlance, a good get.

[JasonEvans]

He is an honor student with a 4.4 GPA.

And he was offered by Florida State, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, South Florida, Central Florida, Syracuse and Stanford. The last time Duke got a kid offered by Florida State was when???

--Jason "even before his first team gets on the field, it is impossible to ignore the ways Cut is making things better" Evans

[billybreen]

This is super cool.

[jimsumner]

Not only is Harding a major get, he's a major get in an area of significant need.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Great! It's amazing to me how much Duke is recruiting in-region. 20 out of the 22 recruits are from the southeast (NC 9 , SC 3, FL 3, GA 4, VA 1). One is from Cali, and one is from MD.
Coach Cutcliffe has said over and over again the top factor in recruiting (for the recruit) is geography and he's proving it as he and his staff outhustle many established programs in the southeast used to easy inroads in recruiting. Coach's connections while at Tennessee and Ole Miss are priceless to our program at this early stage of revival.

[snowdenscold]

He is an honor student with a 4.4 GPA.

And he was offered by Florida State, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, South Florida, Central Florida, Syracuse and Stanford. The last time Duke got a kid offered by Florida State was when???

--Jason "even before his first team gets on the field, it is impossible to ignore the ways Cut is making things better" Evans

How the heck does one get a 4.4 GPA? I don't like this gpa-inflation w/ some schools handing out 5.0's or very liberal in their giving of 4.5's.

[/random criticism]

[roywhite]

Coach Cutcliffe has said over and over again the top factor in recruiting (for the recruit) is geography and he's proving it as he and his staff outhustle many established programs in the southeast used to easy inroads in recruiting. Coach's connections while at Tennessee and Ole Miss are priceless to our program at this early stage of revival.

Target market = good football prospects who live in NC and other areas of the Southeast, and also have good academics and character?

Who would've thought it? :)

(And he's finding and connecting with this group!)

[Diddy]

Great! It's amazing to me how much Duke is recruiting in-region. 20 out of the 22 recruits are from the southeast (NC 9 , SC 3, FL 3, GA 4, VA 1). One is from Cali, and one is from MD.

Excepting only Southern Texas and So Cal, you don't need to recruit anywhere else in order to win. The level of Football played in the South East at the HS and College is so far beyond any other states, it is not even funny. Seriously, it is not a joke. It is bedrock fact.

[Gunnar Kaufman]

Harding's commitment will hopefully segue into the commitments of a few other OLinemen that we're recruiting.

We have the QB and the HB. Now we just need a line to give them room to work.

Harding is a massive step in the right direction.

What's MOST exciting about this, however, is that we now have a coaching staff that will be able to really develop all this talent. We haven't had that in quite a while, IMO.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Harding is a massive step in the right direction.


Literally. No kidding. You see the size of that guy?

[classof2016]

Wow.

I don't care now that I have to take a 9 hour trip there and back each way for one game ESPECIALLY if we keep on getting talent like this.

[sagegrouse]

How the heck does one get a 4.4 GPA? I don't like this gpa-inflation w/ some schools handing out 5.0's or very liberal in their giving of 4.5's.

[/random criticism]

Many HS's (at least the ones my children attended) give an extra grade point for each honors course taken. Consequently, with all honors courses, the potential GPA is 5.0.

sagegrouse

[Bluedog]

Excepting only Southern Texas and So Cal, you don't need to recruit anywhere else in order to win. The level of Football played in the South East at the HS and College is so far beyond any other states, it is not even funny. Seriously, it is not a joke. It is bedrock fact.

I wasn't arguing there was anything wrong with this strategy. Just pointing it out. Certainly it's probably easier to focus your energies on one region of the country and be successful to get a lot of recruits while maximizing your resources - and it makes sense when that region has tons of talent. Duke basketball, on the other hand, does a much more national recruiting search. But there are far fewer players you have to look at (since the team is so much smaller) and Duke typically looks for very specific players, so they probably have to cast a wider net to find them. Obviously, the logistics for football and basketball are different - and basketball talent is spread more evenly across the country....Anyways, I'm excited!

[killerleft]

Coach Cutcliffe is already dispelling Duke football recruiting myths left and right.

If this year's team wins four games or more, watch out! Next year's haul could be something special.

Cutcliffe Fever. I have it.

[Uncle Drew]

Coach Cutcliffe has said over and over again the top factor in recruiting (for the recruit) is geography and he's proving it as he and his staff outhustle many established programs in the southeast used to easy inroads in recruiting. Coach's connections while at Tennessee and Ole Miss are priceless to our program at this early stage of revival.

Okay Devil in the Blue Dress, I know you were a teacher and you're smarter than me. But please explain what being able to figure out the particular angle of a triangle given two variables has to do with recruiting. I mean can't potential recruits take geometry most anywhere and isn't that a high school course? I don't care how he does it as long as he keeps reeling in good players and quantity to redshirt some of them. Five year seniors make a HUGE difference.

[killerleft]

Thanks for the many updates!

Is that "Dawn of a New Day" poster that Coach Cut is holding in the picture on your site for sale anywhere? I checked goduke and didn't see it.

[OldPhiKap]

Okay Devil in the Blue Dress, I know you were a teacher and you're smarter than me. But please explain what being able to figure out the particular angle of a triangle given two variables has to do with recruiting. I mean can't potential recruits take geometry most anywhere and isn't that a high school course? I don't care how he does it as long as he keeps reeling in good players and quantity to redshirt some of them. Five year seniors make a HUGE difference.

C'mon Latta, use your head.

Clearly, it's a short-hand remark for all of the higher applied math sciences.







(Overlooking the fact that there's a slight difference between geometry and geography. But I was a History major so it's all Greek to me).

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

C'mon Latta, use your head.

Clearly, it's a short-hand remark for all of the higher applied math sciences.







(Overlooking the fact that there's a slight difference between geometry and geography. But I was a History major so it's all Greek to me).
There's always a job for somebody with a good liberal arts education!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Thanks for the many updates!

Is that "Dawn of a New Day" poster that Coach Cut is holding in the picture on your site for sale anywhere? I checked goduke and didn't see it.
Perhaps they'll be on sale at the first game...... you could even get it autographed!

[watzone]

Thanks for the many updates!

Is that "Dawn of a New Day" poster that Coach Cut is holding in the picture on your site for sale anywhere? I checked goduke and didn't see it.

That was a pretty cool picture opportunity. You can probably purchase a poster through the Duke SID office. If you buy a regular price season ticket at the ticket office, you can more than likely ask and get one. ... doing my part to market DFB;)

[Bluedawg]

Many HS's (at least the ones my children attended) give an extra grade point for each honors course taken. Consequently, with all honors courses, the potential GPA is 5.0.

sagegrouse

My daughter is AP and she is on the same grading system

[devildeac]

How the heck does one get a 4.4 GPA? I don't like this gpa-inflation w/ some schools handing out 5.0's or very liberal in their giving of 4.5's.

[/random criticism]

Honors courses: A=5.0
AP courses: A=6.0

Grades are then reported as weighted vs unweighted.

[OldPhiKap]

There's always a job for somebody with a good liberal arts education!

Amen.


GTH,C. Bring on the season!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Literally. No kidding. You see the size of that guy?
He's just a little smaller than Vince Oghobaase..... Vince is 6' 6'' and 300 lb.

[devildeac]

He is an honor student with a 4.4 GPA.

And he was offered by Florida State, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, South Florida, Central Florida, Syracuse and Stanford. The last time Duke got a kid offered by Florida State was when???

--Jason "even before his first team gets on the field, it is impossible to ignore the ways Cut is making things better" Evans

Are you sure his GPA is 4.4? We all know now that Coach Cut is looking for speed so I thought maybe it was his 40 yard dash time;):D.

[killerleft]

That was a pretty cool picture opportunity. You can probably purchase a poster through the Duke SID office. If you buy a regular price season ticket at the ticket office, you can more than likely ask and get one. ... doing my part to market DFB;)

I'll get my usual Family Plan tickets. Hopefully by next year a regular price ticket will be required to get a good seat!

[sagegrouse]

Excepting only Southern Texas and So Cal, you don't need to recruit anywhere else in order to win. The level of Football played in the South East at the HS and College is so far beyond any other states, it is not even funny. Seriously, it is not a joke. It is bedrock fact.

IMHO (with sagegrouse the "h" is always silent) I also think that we will soon return to our happy hunting grounds in the northeast. During the 20-30 year period where eastern college football consisted of Penn State and occasionally Pitt, Duke was a preferred destination for recruits from that region.

I think it is wonderful to kick butt in our home state, but having a national recruiting program is also good.

sagegrouse
'Actually NC was a really good historical area for Duke recruiting. Sonny Jurgenson tells the story that after the No Car high school all-star game inthe 1950s, he and the other really good players conferred and all decided to go to Duke -- yay!'

[jimsumner]

"Actually NC was a really good historical area for Duke recruiting"

Gordon Carver
Bob Gantt
Billy Cox
Jerry Barger
Roy Hord
Sonny Jurgensen
Wray Carlton
Mike McGee
Jean Berry
Stan Crisson
Bob Matheson
Al Woodall
Leo Hart
Wes Chesson
Steve Jones
Billy Bryan
Troy Slade
Tom Hall
Charles Bowser
Dennis Tabron
Cedric Jones
Chris Castor
Emmett Tilley
Walter Jones
Dave Colonna
Doug Green
Clarkston Hines
Quenton McCracken
Corey Thomas
Scottie Montgomery

That's off the top of my head and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure I've omitted some worthies. One of my major areas of disagreement with Ted Roof was his insistence that Duke couldn't recruit in-state. I don't know if admissions got tougher or it was just a self-fulfilling prophecy but Duke hasn't competed for recruits in its home state for far too long. I am absolutely delighted to see that change.

[jimsumner]

A word on GPAs. My children went to Enloe, which is Raleigh's GT magnet school, which means it has lots of AP and Honors classes. My son graduated with a 4.9 and wasn't even in the top 10%. IIRC, his valedictorian had something in the neighborhood of a 5.4.

[Acymetric]

A word on GPAs. My children went to Enloe, which is Raleigh's GT magnet school, which means it has lots of AP and Honors classes. My son graduated with a 4.9 and wasn't even in the top 10%. IIRC, his valedictorian had something in the neighborhood of a 5.4.

That's about what my high school's valedictorian had a few years back, I think. As someone mentioned, the transcript shows both the weighted and unweighted GPA, so colleges get both. Really its a useful tool, should an A in a standard class be the same as an A in an AP? It gets a little cloudier when you ask if an A in a standard class should be less than a B in an AP class, but no system is perfect...

[devildeac]

A word on GPAs. My children went to Enloe, which is Raleigh's GT magnet school, which means it has lots of AP and Honors classes. My son graduated with a 4.9 and wasn't even in the top 10%. IIRC, his valedictorian had something in the neighborhood of a 5.4.

Heck, that's a LOW GPA for Enloe or some of the other HS in Raleigh for that matter:o;). Some of our friends' children went to Enloe and a goodly number of students there skipped their lunch time so they could take 7 courses instead of the usual 6 so their GPA would be higher. They also took courses at NCSU so they could get a 6.25 instead of a 6.0 on their transcript if they earned an A in the college course.

[El_Diablo]

How the heck does one get a 4.4 GPA? I don't like this gpa-inflation w/ some schools handing out 5.0's or very liberal in their giving of 4.5's.

[/random criticism]

By studying! It's good to see that we're landing stellar athletes without having to sacrifice academic standards. Keep it up Coach!


Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

[Clipsfan]

Heck, that's a LOW GPA for Enloe or some of the other HS in Raleigh for that matter:o;). Some of our friends' children went to Enloe and a goodly number of students there skipped their lunch time so they could take 7 courses instead of the usual 6 so their GPA would be higher. They also took courses at NCSU so they could get a 6.25 instead of a 6.0 on their transcript if they earned an A in the college course.

That makes no sense to me, given that GPA is an average. How does adding more classes increase the potential maximum?

I know that back when I was in HS I only got an extra point (5 max) for APs (I went to a school where almost every class I took the last 2 years was an AP). I've never heard of this "6.0" for a class before. Is it just an east coast thing, or is it just new?

[El_Diablo]

That makes no sense to me, given that GPA is an average. How does adding more classes increase the potential maximum?

Adding more classes that are weighted as 5.0 or 6.0 raise your average by counteracting the "dead weight" 4.0's from introductory courses and classes with no AP (physical education, keyboarding, etc).

[sagegrouse]

That makes no sense to me, given that GPA is an average. How does adding more classes increase the potential maximum?

I know that back when I was in HS I only got an extra point (5 max) for APs (I went to a school where almost every class I took the last 2 years was an AP). I've never heard of this "6.0" for a class before. Is it just an east coast thing, or is it just new?

I am not going to defend the practice, but the way it works is that an A in an honors course is scored at 5.0 and an A in a non-honors course is scored a 4.0. Similarly for a B. Ergo a 4.4 could mean all A's and two honors courses (out of five). Or 2 A's and 3 B's in all honors courses. (Or some other combination.)

sagegrouse

[jimsumner]

If you're really that interested in Triangle-area valedictorian GPAs, the link below lists the 2008 folks. The Cardinal Gibbons valedictorian was in the 5.9 neighborhood.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:f1145KeslRkJ:media.newsobserver.com/content/news/education/story_graphics/20080613_valedictorians.pdf+Wake+County+valedictor ians+2008&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

[formerdukeathlete]

A word on GPAs. My children went to Enloe, which is Raleigh's GT magnet school, which means it has lots of AP and Honors classes. My son graduated with a 4.9 and wasn't even in the top 10%. IIRC, his valedictorian had something in the neighborhood of a 5.4.

harding has a relatively high gpa, passed the academic screening for Stanford, a very solid addition, academically oriented to pick Duke over FSU, this kind of recruit makes our admin and our coaches happy = win, win, which of course we hope startes wth JMU!

[OldPhiKap]

Nice pick up!

[OldPhiKap]

Only at Duke could a football recruiting thread devolve into a discussion of the relative merits of weighted high school grade point averages.


:rolleyes:

(Yeah, I'm jealous -- we only went to "4" when I was a lad).

[watzone]

I'll get my usual Family Plan tickets. Hopefully by next year a regular price ticket will be required to get a good seat!

Family plans are a bargain! If you get up with me, I will give you a poster at the JMU game.

I sorta wish JE never mentioned Hardings GPA:)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Only at Duke could a football recruiting thread devolve into a discussion of the relative merits of weighted high school grade point averages.


:rolleyes:

(Yeah, I'm jealous -- we only went to "4" when I was a lad).

Do you think Harding might be interested in becoming an orthopedist? There was a time when such a career choice would have been part of the recruiting. Anyone in the Bassett Society contact him yet?

[throatybeard]

Only at Duke could a football recruiting thread devolve into a discussion of the relative merits of weighted high school grade point averages.

Only at Duke are we so obsessed with the purportedly unparalleled eliteness of our own undergrads and of ourselves that we think we're the only ones who are so elite that a FB recruiting thread would devolve into a discussion of the relative merits of weighted high school grade point averages. :eek:

Wow, that was so meta I just blew my own mind. I'm more meta than thou, OPK.

[Newton_14]

Man, this is great. Coach Cut is getting it done big time. I agree with an earlier poster that he is smashing the tired old "can't recruit at Duke" myth. There is absolutely no reason Duke cannot have a solid football program year in and year out. All it takes is committment. I knew this was a good hire, but never dreamed he would make so much progress this fast. (I know, the naysayers will say he has not won a game yet) But if he keeps recruiting like this along with the many other things he is doing, it has to translate to wins sooner than later... Welcome David Harding! and keep rockin Coach C!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Only at Duke are we so obsessed with the purportedly unparalleled eliteness of our own undergrads and of ourselves that we think we're the only ones who are so elite that a FB recruiting thread would devolve into a discussion of the relative merits of weighted high school grade point averages. :eek:

Wow, that was so meta I just blew my own mind. I'm more meta than thou, OPK.
Oh, c'mon, TB, we're just some ole alums having a little fun!

[formerdukeathlete]

Only at Duke are we so obsessed with the purportedly unparalleled eliteness of our own undergrads and of ourselves that we think we're the only ones who are so elite that a FB recruiting thread would devolve into a discussion of the relative merits of weighted high school grade point averages. ............

Argument for years has been that, in order to attract top quality football recruits at Duke, we must lower admissions requirements, i.e., that there are not enough well-qualified (academically) kids who can also play BCS ball. When we obtain commitments from students like harding who easily qualify for Duke's, Stanford's and the Ivy League's criteria, well this kind of disproves that argument. I think it is more about pointing out the positive (than elitism).

[OldPhiKap]

I'm more meta than thou, OPK.

Only if you consider Western syllogisms of logic to be paramount. Step outside the para-dig-em.

(I'm more a "metaphysics of quality" guy. Which fits nicely with being a Duke fan/alum).


And, to the broader point, this does show that the whole "We can't recruit because of admissions requirements" is malarkey. While there may be some liberalization of the standards in certain instances, there is no need for wholesale abrogation of our standards.

Edit to add: fde above stated it better than I. Well said.

[roywhite]

Oh, c'mon, TB, we're just some ole alums having a little fun!

Yeah, back in the day, a 3.5 GPA or a 1400 SAT actually meant something. :)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Yeah, back in the day, a 3.5 GPA or a 1400 SAT actually meant something. :)
Ain't that the truth!

[Edouble]

Just to play the devil's advocate, Dawud Rasheed, Trinity '99, picked Duke over Alabama and was Mr. Alabama in football his senior year in high school. Needless to say, the teams he was a part of won very few games. Big time recruits have to get it done on the field too. I am very cautious with my optimism.

[devildeac]

That makes no sense to me, given that GPA is an average. How does adding more classes increase the potential maximum?

I know that back when I was in HS I only got an extra point (5 max) for APs (I went to a school where almost every class I took the last 2 years was an AP). I've never heard of this "6.0" for a class before. Is it just an east coast thing, or is it just new?

A student can take 7 courses x 6.0 for each A = 42 points. Versus 6 courses x 6.0 for each A giving them 36 points. When this is averaged with the "lower level" courses a student takes when they are freshman and sophomores due to graduation requirements, it will raise their GPA more during their junior and senior years than if they take only 6 courses each semester. My 3 kids just went through this over the last 8 years, so believe me, I have seen it but mainly at 1 particular HS in Raleigh. It is fairly common for the valedictorian to have a GPA of 5.4xxx or 5.5xxx and you can have an intelligent child who has done well with grades, have a 4.8 or 4.9 and not even be in the top 10% of his/her class.

[Richard Berg]

harding has a relatively high gpa, passed the academic screening for Stanford...

When we obtain commitments from students like harding who easily qualify for Duke's, Stanford's and the Ivy League's criteria...
What do these statements mean, exactly? I can see them being taken at least two ways:
(1) the student qualifies for Duke's [or Stanford's, etc.] football team standards
(2) the student would have gotten into Duke [etc.] even if he played trombone instead of OL

I think we'd all prefer a team full of #2, though I agree #1 is still a nice rebuttal to anyone who wants us to lower the team standards further.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

What do these statements mean, exactly? I can see them being taken at least two ways:
(1) the student qualifies for Duke's [or Stanford's, etc.] football team standards
(2) the student would have gotten into Duke [etc.] even if he played trombone instead of OL

I think we'd all prefer a team full of #2, though I agree #1 is still a nice rebuttal to anyone who wants us to lower the team standards further.
I remember hearing Carl Franks tell members of the Blue Devil Club that football players had to meet a higher academic standard for admission than the one used for basketball players. He didn't ask that the standards be lowered for football, just that the football players not be held to a higher admission standard than the basketball players. He also pointed out that at that time the football team had one academic adviser while the basketball team with around a dozen players had several academic advisers.

[snowdenscold]

I'll just state my opinion one more time, in case anyone missed it on the first page, haha. And throaty, your point has been noted.

Having classes that give you a 5.0 or 6.0 is just ridiculous. It's completely transparent GPA inflation and I'm pretty certain any competent college admissions officer isn't falling for it. It all just seems like a silly and petty way to puff kids up when compared to other schools. Give it another decade and kids will be going to college with an 8.3 GPA.

[Richard Berg]

Having classes that give you a 5.0 or 6.0 is just ridiculous. It's completely transparent GPA inflation and I'm pretty certain any competent college admissions officer isn't falling for it.

I disagree. Grade inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation) implies giving students something they don't deserve, often in order to bring an indirect benefit back to the professor.

Here there's no deceit. High schools are simply trying to GPAs more comparable within their system -- in other words, assuring that the valedictorian didn't skate thru the system by taking easier courses. Between HS systems, comparison was effectively impossible anyway (just ask, say, Grant Hill and Sean Dockery).

Nevertheless, college admissions are well prepared to deal with variations in grading policy. When I applied a decade ago (eek!), every application asked for GPA in the form of "______ out of ______ possible". At my high school classes were scored from 0-100, with +10 for honors & AP classes...hardly unusual, even then.

[Mudge]

Excepting only Southern Texas and So Cal, you don't need to recruit anywhere else in order to win. The level of Football played in the South East at the HS and College is so far beyond any other states, it is not even funny. Seriously, it is not a joke. It is bedrock fact.

Yeah, it is a joke-- Florida has great HS football, but other than that, the other SE states are nothing extraordinary on a per capita or absolute basis-- certainly not NC. Last year, the vaunted best team from NC (Independence, with 7 year unbeaten record and a like number of big school state championships in NC) came up to play a weak Ohio team that finished with a modest 6-4 record-- the OH team beat them, then went on to get stomped several times by other OH teams.

There is no doubt that HS football in VA, MD (Dematha, the top team from that area and allegedly a top 5 national team, got stomped in OH the same weekend as Independence was beaten), NC, SC, and MS are weak by comparison with OH and PA... GA has decent football, as does AL and LA, but certainly none of them are superior to OH/PA (ESPN has done an extensive analysis of this), but only FL has extraordinary talent. Currently, TX and FL are the top-rated states for talent.

[dukemomLA]

I am so excited about Duke FB! (and...let's give them all a break by not expecting the moon right away).

I am 3,000 miles away, so...I PLEAD with all of you within 300 miles to FILL the (....disgusting) Wade Stadium and give our guys the support they are earning.

My dreams of Duke being competitive in football is becoming a reality. YIKES! Such fun!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I am so excited about Duke FB! (and...let's give them all a break by not expecting the moon right away).

I am 3,000 miles away, so...I PLEAD with all of you within 300 miles to FILL the (....disgusting) Wade Stadium and give our guys the support they are earning.

My dreams of Duke being competitive in football is becoming a reality. YIKES! Such fun!
The note of support is certainly warranted, but I must take exception with calling Wallace Wade Stadium disgusting. It's not the stadium that's disgusting, it's the sorry stewardship of the university. The football stadium is no more disgusting than Indoor Stadium was before the various renovations occurred. Lest anyone reading this think I speak without experiencing what the place is like, I've been attending games there all my life.

As for the renovations, I'm sure there will be many opportunities to donate to the fund needed to carry out the work!