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billybreen
08-18-2008, 11:46 AM
Let's see, we barely beat these guys 2 weeks ago without their best player. Call me a pessimist, but I think Bogut is worth at least a 20 point swing. Australia by 10.

billybreen
08-18-2008, 11:47 AM
PS, sorry for stealing your thread, Blueintheface. I just wanted to get this party started quickly.

BlueintheFace
08-18-2008, 12:03 PM
that's okay. I was really just going to link straight to Sheridan's new article up on ESPN.com which is really good with some interesting tidbits from Shanghai.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/basketball/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=usgermany-080818

Here are a few of my other thoughts. Feel free to comment

1) There is only one team left in this tournament who can say they had the US in striking distance, the Aussies. This will do worlds of good for their confidence.

2) Andrew Bogut- This is a huge addition... literally. The Aussies played us tight before with no Andrew Bogut. Now they have the high scorer back. Antsey and Bogut will be a formidable match. Plus, don't forget Australia has a point guard who might compete with Usain Bolt once this basketball competition is over... the kid is fast.

3) Australia has a nice combo of fast guard play, solid three point shooters, and large men. What they don't have is athletic wings to match up with us. I expect us to hit the lane hard with drives, and I expect the Aussies to hit us hard when we get to the lane. This could be a very intense game for awhile. Look for dirty plays and feuds on the court.

4) Kobe- It is time for Kobe to come through. He hasn't been playing horrible. He has been taking the shots he is supposed to and has been great on defense, but as the elimination rounds continue I expect him to step it up. The threes should start falling now... I hope.

5) Not Looking ahead but... If we win I believe we would probably draw Greece (the team I still believe has the best chance at beating us). Our road will not be easy...

roywhite
08-18-2008, 12:07 PM
Okay, let's throw out some disclaimers:

This is single elimination, Australia played the US team tough in the exhibition game, Andrew Bogut is now in their lineup and playing well, Australia is not afraid of the US, the Boomers shot lights out against Lithuania.

That said, the USA will win by about 25. The team is on a mission, it has leadership on the bench and on the floor (Kobe, LeBron) that will not permit complacency, the team is improving, and no international team can match our wing players---Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Dwayne Wade.

wilson
08-18-2008, 12:45 PM
Okay, let's throw out some disclaimers:

This is single elimination, Australia played the US team tough in the exhibition game, Andrew Bogut is now in their lineup and playing well, Australia is not afraid of the US, the Boomers shot lights out against Lithuania.

That said, the USA will win by about 25. The team is on a mission, it has leadership on the bench and on the floor (Kobe, LeBron) that will not permit complacency, the team is improving, and no international team can match our wing players---Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Dwayne Wade.

At the risk of piling on jinx material, I'd have to agree with this assessment. Every time I think this team can't get any better, they go out and do just that. I know that the Aussies hung with our boys a couple of weeks ago, but this quite simply isn't the same US team (does anyone really think we're 37 points better than Spain, but only 21 better than Angola?). This team knows that this is crunch time and that the medal round is where the true judgment of this squad will be written (and that's all before you factor Coach K's exhortations into the mix). I'm not saying that Team USA can't lose to Australia, just that they won't. Red, white, and blue by 20.

roywhite
08-18-2008, 12:51 PM
According to the usabasketball.com site, the USA vs Australia game will be played at 8:00 PM Beijing time on 8/20, or 8:00 AM EDT. The winner of that game would face the winner of the 10:15 PM Beijing time (all games on 8/20) between Argentina and Greece.

The other side of the bracket is Spain vs Croatia at 2:30 PM Beijing time, and Lithuania vs China at 4:45 PM Beijing time.

Just speculating, but I think our road to Gold goes through Australia, Argentina, and Spain.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-18-2008, 12:55 PM
Let's see, we barely beat these guys 2 weeks ago without their best player. Call me a pessimist, but I think Bogut is worth at least a 20 point swing. Australia by 10.

I think we have to recognize the momentum U.S. has gained in its last three games.

vs. AUS (exhib): FG - 51%, 3Pt - 17%

vs. GRE: FG - 54%, 3Pt - 35%
vs. SPA: FG - 58%, 3pt - 48%
vs. GER: FG - 55%, 3pt - 42%

Also, we allowed Australia to shoot 48% from the field and 40% from 3pt land. In the 5 Olympic games, we're only allowing 41% and 27%.

At least from a numbers perspective, I don't see the addition of Bogut putting Australia over the top. We're playing so much better now. And I was impressed and encouraged that we played with such fire against Germany when we clearly could have had a let down.

CameronBornAndBred
08-18-2008, 12:56 PM
I might have to be sick game day. It should be a good gamem, and I want to watch it live. Sounds like the Australians are a bit cocky, probably some locker room fodder in there for Kobe and company.

moonpie23
08-18-2008, 01:15 PM
i agree with many of the assessments pro and con.....the one thing i will point out is, Team USA is playing fierce defense...that may be the difference more than our somewhat inconsistent offensive play...


the aussies tried to muscle them up the first time and then they backed off when they got muscled back...

USA needs to stay focused and i don't see or hear anything that suggests they won't be...

billybreen
08-18-2008, 01:18 PM
At least from a numbers perspective, I don't see the addition of Bogut putting Australia over the top. We're playing so much better now. And I was impressed and encouraged that we played with such fire against Germany when we clearly could have had a let down.

Indeed, my prediction of Kaman hitting a 3 at the buzzer to beat us seems silly in retrospect, but that won't stop me from predicting that Bogut will hit a 3 at the buzzer to beat us Wednesday.

moonpie23
08-18-2008, 01:24 PM
billy,

could you bring a little more negativity? i still think the sun is gonna come up tomorrow....

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-18-2008, 01:40 PM
I assume breen is just trying to generate discussion. That's cool.

But there may not be much to discuss. In the end, we clearly have unmatched talent on the floor and coaching that is second to none. It comes down to one thing and one thing only... focus. I believe we showed today in a meaningless game that we have the focus necessary to make quick work of our next three opponents, whoever they may be.

billybreen
08-18-2008, 01:42 PM
billy,

could you bring a little more negativity? i still think the sun is gonna come up tomorrow....

There's a method to my madness. You can thank me when it's all over.

BD80
08-18-2008, 01:43 PM
Australia will not be able to keep the game close. Bogut does not add to the team speed, and the US team speed has been killing its opponents. The fact that the Aussies are the only ones to have come close so far will add to the motivation level - which was obviously lacking in the previous matchup. Further, Coach K has a chance to specifically prepare for Australia, which bodes very well for us.

Argentina is a good second round test for us, but their roster is too thin to stay with us, and their point guard position too weak.

Spain will have a tough road to get back to the finals, they have been too inconsistent in their play. Spain could be the toughest matchup if they are hot, but I bet they get upset by one of the three teams they might face.

Colangalo and Coach K have put together a truly awesome team with tremendous defense and off-the-charts athleticism. Watching CP III and Bosh and Wade and Williams come off the bench and RAISE the tempo almost seems unfair. What is scary is that the team is getting better as they get used to each other on defense and as they see just how dominating they can be playing D the right way and at that level. McMillan and D'Antoni were sensational choices as assistants.

Somehow I think this will have a positive spill over for Duke and Duke recruiting.

roywhite
08-18-2008, 02:35 PM
This USA team has reached the developmental stage of the best Coach K Duke teams---virtually on auto-pilot. The team has complete "buy-in" on the principles of defense and teamwork. They know what their roles are and they are executing without hesitation. There are on the court leaders in Bryant and James, similar to the way Battier and Hurley/Laettner were in their championship seasons.

I've seen several of the players interviewed recently, and you can just hear certain Coach K sayings coming out in their words. A great group of athletes pulling together---it's a beautfiul thing to watch.

mgtr
08-18-2008, 02:45 PM
You can thank me when it's all over.

I wonder how many participants here recognize the source of this paraphrase?

SilkyJ
08-18-2008, 07:31 PM
billy,

could you bring a little more negativity? i still think the sun is gonna come up tomorrow....

not to steel billy's thunder, but you should read his posts in all the threads relating to Team USA games. he's been predicting quite a few losses.

alternatively, read the 1st 7 words of wilson's thread above. that's all I'll say. (hope thats not too much billyboy)

hc5duke
08-18-2008, 07:40 PM
Australia by 10.

Bogut will hit a 3 at the buzzer to beat us Wednesday.

Crap, the Australians have discovered a way to score 10 points with a 3-pointer! We're all doomed!:D

On a semi-related note, does anyone remember those basketball games on MTV in the 90s? I seem to remember they had a 20-ft tall basket installed on top of the regular one, and that was worth 10 points or something?

billybreen
08-18-2008, 07:55 PM
Crap, the Australians have discovered a way to score 10 points with a 3-pointer! We're all doomed!:D

My theme for the day is lack of internal consistency. I'm doing well.

YmoBeThere
08-18-2008, 07:57 PM
PS, sorry for stealing your thread, Blueintheface. I just wanted to get this party started quickly.


Very close to sampling C+C Music Factory...

BlueintheFace
08-18-2008, 08:10 PM
Just an aside, but IF the US manages to beat Australia I think their next game will be the true championship game of the tournament for them. Argentina and Greece are the two teams I see as best equipped to beat us. That game would be great to watch.

billybreen
08-18-2008, 08:17 PM
Very close to sampling C+C Music Factory...

Everybody chat now!

YmoBeThere
08-18-2008, 08:22 PM
How did I end up over here? I thought I was on the OTB - Greatest Music Videos of All Time thread.

SilkyJ
08-18-2008, 08:46 PM
On a semi-related note, does anyone remember those basketball games on MTV in the 90s? I seem to remember they had a 20-ft tall basket installed on top of the regular one, and that was worth 10 points or something?

YES. what ever happened to those? they were like pro-am games with celebrities and then a few professional players sprinkled throughout. they definitely had a baseball one too...i remember b/c watching Jenny McCarthy run is an interest of mine of facebook (not really, but it should be)

jipops
08-18-2008, 09:09 PM
Watching CP III and Bosh and Wade and Williams come off the bench and RAISE the tempo almost seems unfair. What is scary is that the team is getting better as they get used to each other on defense and as they see just how dominating they can be playing D the right way and at that level.


You know this has been one of the more interesting aspects of this team. The last few games the second unit has actually seemed more effective than the 1st. I'm not going to knock on Kidd like so many others have, his leadership has been immeasurable, but the combo of CP3 and Deron has been a nightmare of a matchup for other teams and Wade has been truly dominating at both ends of the floor. Bosh has been a perfect fit for international play as he can effectively defend away from the basket as a big.

Also, there appears to be a bit of correlation between Carmelo's shot falling and the overall play with the rest of the team. (Germany doesn't count as they didn't offer much competition). Everyone seems to get on a roll when he knocks down a couple treys. I hope that we continue to look to Carmelo to build tempo and hopefully those shots keep going down. I love how he's been hitting the defensive boards lately, he's actually assumed a role there.

wilson
08-18-2008, 11:09 PM
YES. what ever happened to those? they were like pro-am games with celebrities and then a few professional players sprinkled throughout. they definitely had a baseball one too...i remember b/c watching Jenny McCarthy run is an interest of mine of facebook (not really, but it should be)

Rock and Jock. Why those don't appear on ESPN Classic every once in a while is beyond me. Those contests (both softball and basketball...and do I recall a bowling competition or two?) were true paragons of athletic excellence.

billybreen
08-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Rock and Jock. Why those don't appear on ESPN Classic every once in a while is beyond me. Those contests (both softball and basketball...and do I recall a bowling competition or two?) were true paragons of athletic excellence.

Yeah, man. Jon Bon Jovi at the plate while Ed Lover plays catcher. The world has never been the same.

studdlee10
08-19-2008, 12:18 AM
The USA took the Aust game pretty lightly last time around. They were out late and obviously coming off a high from beating Lithuania. While their PG is quick, we'll see them play off of him more and I can't see this team coming out flat again, their D didn't play with 10% of their recent intensity in that game.

Has anybody forgotten....Andrew Bogut is no world beater, and using him as a reason why Australia will win is almost laughable. We destroyed Kaman/Nowitzki, Gasol/Gasol, Yao/Yi, and those tandems are worlds better than Andrew Bogut and Chris Antsey (I am a mavs fan..and can tell you first hand how average Chris is). My prediction, Dwight and Bosh go at Bogut hard. If anybody in the league sucks more on D than Gasol...it's Bogut.

hc5duke
08-19-2008, 03:48 AM
If anybody in the league sucks more on D than Gasol...it's Bogut.

I think you're severely overestimating Steve Nash's defensive prowess. :rolleyes: (pic unrelated)

http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/ShaqNash.jpg

CameronBornAndBred
08-19-2008, 08:46 AM
Yay, I get to work from home tomorrow!

Indoor66
08-19-2008, 09:04 AM
Checking the NBC TV schedule (http://www.nbcolympics.com/basketball/resultsandschedules/index.html), they list the US v Australia as an 8:00 p.m. Beijing time start. That would make this an 8:00 a.m. EDT start. The FIBA site (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/scheResu/p/openNodeIDs/6576/selNodeID/6576/fe_scheStat_sche.html)lists the game at 20:00 (8:00 p.m.) Beijing time start as well. The DBR front page is in error.

dkbaseball
08-19-2008, 09:51 AM
Andrew Bogut is no world beater, and using him as a reason why Australia will win is almost laughable.

I'm pretty sure the OP was going for laughs. He has taken on the mantle of the team's mascot pessimist, and endeavors to ensure victory for them by picking the other team.

billybreen
08-19-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm pretty sure the OP was going for laughs. He has taken on the mantle of the team's mascot pessimist, and endeavors to ensure victory for them by picking the other team.

But it's been interesting seeing all the serious responses. Is it so easy to believe I would be so silly in my predictions? That's kind of sad.

roywhite
08-19-2008, 10:33 AM
But it's been interesting seeing all the serious responses. Is it so easy to believe I would be so silly in my predictions? That's kind of sad.

One possible reason for confusion---you started off as a pessimist/skeptic on the USA--Greece game.

"This is the fallacy that led to our losses in 02, 04, and 06. Sure, we have the best individual players, but this is a team sport. Until we prove that we can defend the pick and roll better than we did against a Greek team that is likely stronger than the one that beat us in '06, it's foolish to be overconfident.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I have a very bad feeling about this game."

billybreen
08-19-2008, 10:49 AM
One possible reason for confusion---you started off as a pessimist/skeptic on the USA--Greece game.

"This is the fallacy that led to our losses in 02, 04, and 06. Sure, we have the best individual players, but this is a team sport. Until we prove that we can defend the pick and roll better than we did against a Greek team that is likely stronger than the one that beat us in '06, it's foolish to be overconfident.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I have a very bad feeling about this game."

Indeed. At the time it wasn't ridiculous. Kaman beating us with a 3 at the buzzer? I would expect that to be obvious.

moonpie23
08-19-2008, 12:41 PM
i can't see usa taking anything for granted right now....they are focused...even when they had some early foul trouble against spain, they basically ignored it and used the strengths of the bench...


this team is focused...K has them respecting AND believing...

mgtr
08-19-2008, 03:23 PM
this team is focused...K has them respecting AND believing...

As long as Kobe and LeBron stay focussed, I can't anybody slacking off and getting away with it.

roywhite
08-19-2008, 03:53 PM
FWIW, Las Vegas betting lines on the Olympic equivalent of the Elite Eight:

Spain favored over Croatia by 13 pts
Argentina favored over Greece by 4.5 pts
Lithuania favored over China by 10 pts
USA favored over Australia by 31 pts

wilson
08-19-2008, 04:12 PM
FWIW, Las Vegas betting lines on the Olympic equivalent of the Elite Eight:

Spain favored over Croatia by 13 pts
Argentina favored over Greece by 4.5 pts
Lithuania favored over China by 10 pts
USA favored over Australia by 31 pts

Wow...I'm confident that the US will win relatively comfortably, but I'm taking Australia and the points there. The others, I dunno/don't care.

SilkyJ
08-19-2008, 04:36 PM
But it's been interesting seeing all the serious responses. Is it so easy to believe I would be so silly in my predictions? That's kind of sad.

i think most of the people making those repsonses are relatively new to the board and so probably just dont know you or the dynamics of the board that well. they'll come around...


Wow...I'm confident that the US will win relatively comfortably, but I'm taking Australia and the points there. The others, I dunno/don't care.

agreed on both sentences.

Johnboy
08-19-2008, 05:30 PM
Wow...I'm confident that the US will win relatively comfortably, but I'm taking Australia and the points there. The others, I dunno/don't care.

Well, I imagine that in Vegas, it takes a lot of points to get people to bet against the USA team. The point spread is to keep the betting even, right? If it's too high and a great majority of bets are going to AUS, it'll fall until it starts attracting bets for the USA team again.

FWIW, on first blush, I'd take the points and AUS, too, if I were betting. but I probably wouldn't actually place a large bet because I expect the USA to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder after the friendly.

BlueintheFace
08-19-2008, 09:11 PM
Nobody is really talking about this, but I expect this to be far and away the most physical game of the tournament. Keep an eye out for thrown elbows and dirty plays... on both sides of the ball.

Dwight Howard SHOULD be a target for the mental games of the Aussies. In fact, if Australia doesn't throw some cheap plays in early, they would be stupid. If I were game planning against America one of the first things I'd write on the board (after keep it close in the first quarter) is "get in to Dwight Howard's head!" It's just the smart move. It possibly gets him out of the game/ on the bench and really changes the emotions of the American team. Now that could go both ways, (a beatdown or a letdown) but if it breaks in your favor... what a smart gamble. You gotta figure you are probably going to lose anyways so why not...

jipops
08-19-2008, 10:13 PM
Nobody is really talking about this, but I expect this to be far and away the most physical game of the tournament. Keep an eye out for thrown elbows and dirty plays... on both sides of the ball.

Dwight Howard SHOULD be a target for the mental games of the Aussies. In fact, if Australia doesn't throw some cheap plays in early, they would be stupid. If I were game planning against America one of the first things I'd write on the board (after keep it close in the first quarter) is "get in to Dwight Howard's head!" It's just the smart move. It possibly gets him out of the game/ on the bench and really changes the emotions of the American team. Now that could go both ways, (a beatdown or a letdown) but if it breaks in your favor... what a smart gamble. You gotta figure you are probably going to lose anyways so why not...

Flipside of that however has been that countering with Bosh has been equally if not more effective. The Aussies feel like they're sitting pretty right now. There is absolutely no pressure on them and they've already used tactics in the friendly to get into our guys' heads. We'll need an exercise in maturity tomorrow. I think a big key is attacking Australia's zone. If memory serves me correctly we were horrible from the perimeter and Carmelo was dreadful on both ends. If we remedy this and if Carmelo continues his latest performances we should be fine. I believe we also turned it over a lot. Ofcourse the one constant is defense. Even if the US can't throw it in the ocean the defense is what truly determines the outcome for our guys.

Wander
08-19-2008, 10:51 PM
FWIW, Las Vegas betting lines on the Olympic equivalent of the Elite Eight:

Spain favored over Croatia by 13 pts
Argentina favored over Greece by 4.5 pts
Lithuania favored over China by 10 pts
USA favored over Australia by 31 pts

China with the upset... just watch...

BD80
08-19-2008, 10:56 PM
Nobody is really talking about this, but I expect this to be far and away the most physical game of the tournament. Keep an eye out for thrown elbows and dirty plays... on both sides of the ball.

... if it breaks in your favor... what a smart gamble. You gotta figure you are probably going to lose anyways so why not...

Sorry, but its an awful strategy. Getting chippy just plays into the hands of Lebron, Wade and Kobe. These guys can draw contact and still finish a play. We also have some guy on the bench, Carlos somebody, who looks like he could take some contact and finish a play.

If you are saying make Howard get his points at the line, OK, but I am not convinced we will be trying so hard to feed the post against the Aussies.

Melo and Kobe hit 10 threes between them and we win by 34.

mgtr
08-19-2008, 11:21 PM
At this point, I think we run the table. Put it in the bank.

BlueintheFace
08-20-2008, 12:26 AM
Sorry, but its an awful strategy. Getting chippy just plays into the hands of Lebron, Wade and Kobe. These guys can draw contact and still finish a play. We also have some guy on the bench, Carlos somebody, who looks like he could take some contact and finish a play.

If you are saying make Howard get his points at the line, OK, but I am not convinced we will be trying so hard to feed the post against the Aussies.

Melo and Kobe hit 10 threes between them and we win by 34.

I'm saying it might be an awful strategy... okay, fine you got no shot at a win anyways. Or, you might just get Dwight or Melo to throw an elbow (or better, push a player). You might find yourself down just 5 halfway through the second quarter with one big man out of the game, 2 shots, and the ball. You might rile up the Americans and get them to make stupid decisions while you quietly build a lead going into halftime by catching fire from three.

It may work... it may not, but if you are Australia, why wouldn't you take a shot?

wiscodevil
08-20-2008, 08:19 AM
is the game not on tv, live?

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-20-2008, 08:25 AM
is the game not on tv, live?

It's on USA channel.

Cormac
08-20-2008, 08:26 AM
Check USA. I'm watching it online at NBC. You're not missing much. Ugh, what an awful first quarter. U.S. up one going into the 2nd.


Getting chippy out there.....

BlueintheFace
08-20-2008, 08:50 AM
Or, you might just get Dwight or Melo to throw an elbow (or better, push a player). You might find yourself down just 5 halfway through the second quarter with one big man out of the game, 2 shots, and the ball. You might rile up the Americans and get them to make stupid decisions while you quietly build a lead going into halftime by catching fire from three.

It may work... it may not, but if you are Australia, why wouldn't you take a shot?

This is exactly what I was talking about. It didn't work, but I don't think it hurt them either. 5 minutes left in the second, down by seven, the scrub Worthington throws Bosh to the ground. Did you see the reactions? Somebody on our team there could have easily gotten a tech (or unsportsmanlike foul... whatever they call it)!! Let's see if the Aussies start fouling a bit harder in the third and try it again.

roywhite
08-20-2008, 08:51 AM
Australia handling the ball well (not many turnovers), shooting the 3 well, and hitting their foul shots. USA not shooting 3 pointers well and shooting 50% at the line. Still, US by 12 at half. Good rebounding and second chance points.

K can't be happy with some aspects of this game, but they do have a lead.

Bob Green
08-20-2008, 08:51 AM
Our 3-pointers aren't falling and we have missed 10 free throws, but we are up 12 points at the half. We need better shot selection in the second half and we absolutely must knock down the free ones.

freedevil
08-20-2008, 08:56 AM
Free throws!!!!

jacone21
08-20-2008, 09:11 AM
14 unanswered. Nice run. USA by 26!

CameronBornAndBred
08-20-2008, 09:23 AM
Free throws!!!!

LOL..it's like watching Duke...grrrrr. At least they haven't needed them going into the 4th quarter.

moonpie23
08-20-2008, 09:27 AM
defense....and speed...

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-20-2008, 09:45 AM
FWIW, Las Vegas betting lines on the Olympic equivalent of the Elite Eight:

Spain favored over Croatia by 13 pts
Argentina favored over Greece by 4.5 pts
Lithuania favored over China by 10 pts
USA favored over Australia by 31 pts

Wow! Was the final point spread in Vegas still 31? Amazing!

Indoor66
08-20-2008, 09:49 AM
Wow! Was the final point spread in Vegas still 31? Amazing!

That's why those guys make money.

BlueintheFace
08-20-2008, 09:49 AM
Yawn.. Next.

Uncle Drew
08-20-2008, 09:59 AM
I don't know if any other Duke fans were thinking what I was thinking when they showed Andrew Gaze (sp) announcing for the Australian team. Every time I see the guy I remember him cutting Robert Brickie's legs out from under him in the Final Four against Seton Hall and for all intensive purposes ending his career.

Several years later durring a Christmas break game my brother and I got tickets to see Duke play the Aussie's in Cameron. Sitting right under the basket we got to heckle him repeatedly, and I have no doubt we got under his skin. I loved Robert and often wonder what could have been if he hadn't gotten hurt. I have to say outside of UNC players, for me Gaze is one of Duke's foes I loathe the most. Great win for the USA team, great win for Duke. Loved the Boozer stare down with the game in hand. Go USA, Go Duke!

JasonEvans
08-20-2008, 10:06 AM
That 31 point spread was dead on target.

When the Us plays poorly, other teams can hang with them but when they play well they blow teams out... and do it fast. This means that the only way they lose is if they play poorly for an entire game. It could happen, but would seem unlikely.

-Jason "when the threes are falling, even a little bit, the US is waaaay better than anyone" Evans

calltheobvious
08-20-2008, 10:06 AM
That's why those guys make money.

Not on this game:)

wiscodevil
08-20-2008, 10:34 AM
First off, let me say I am impressed by the results we are seeing. What bothers me is the "the rest of the world has caught up to us" meme that EVERYONE is floating around.

We have 20 of the best 25 players in the world. Probably 75 of the best 100. The difference in these olympics is the team has bought into the selflessness and the attitudes are good. Props to Colangelo and K. I think a big factor is also that 8-12 years ago all of the other countries were comprised of teams that played together years round . No more. That and the fact that we're a little more experienced playing international ball.

I'm not saying that on any given night we can't be beat, just that it would take an awesome effort by an opponent, a crap game by us, and a ton of luck.

BlueintheFace
08-20-2008, 10:36 AM
I would suggest that everyone watch the Argentina-Greece game on the USA network right now. It's going to be close for awhile and we DO play the winner.

Indoor66
08-20-2008, 10:36 AM
Not on this game:)

Wrong! They win the push. :D

Carlos
08-20-2008, 10:40 AM
Not on this game:)

Actually, Vegas made out quite well on this game. The idea of the spread is to balance out the betting between both teams. So the books didn't win money on one team but they also didn't lose money on the other team.

And of course they made a ton of money on the vig.

calltheobvious
08-20-2008, 10:40 AM
Wrong! They win the push. :D

Uh, no they don't. That's why they call it a push.

Also, vig only gets collected on losing bets. For instance, everybody lays 110 to win 100, whether betting +31 or -31. Every one of those dollars is being returned (assuming all tickets are presented). If the US wins by 32, then everyone taking US -31 gets 210 back for every 110 laid. The house keeps the 110 bets on everyone taking the points. Assuming perfectly balanced action, the house would make 5% if the game doesn't hit right on the number (10% of the money staked by the losers, which represents 5% of the total handle.)

A push is a push is a push.

Karl Beem
08-20-2008, 10:58 AM
I don't know if any other Duke fans were thinking what I was thinking when they showed Andrew Gaze (sp) announcing for the Australian team. Every time I see the guy I remember him cutting Robert Brickie's legs out from under him in the Final Four against Seton Hall and for all intensive purposes ending his career.


Wasn't that Gerald Green?

roywhite
08-20-2008, 11:00 AM
Well, I'm sure the Las Vegas books can sort it all out. :)

The USA team is just flat-out dominant; there are so many things that an opposing team has to do to play evenly with the USA---handle the pressure defense being played against them and not turn the ball over, hit 3-pointers, hit foul shots, force the USA into a half-court offense and contest their shots, limit second shots, etc. etc. So a team does this for awhile and then the US throws another wave of talent at them! Too much talent, and too much defense for the other teams to contend with for a full game.

Let the Ric Buchers and Chris Sheridens of the world be skeptical (or cynical) about the US ability to play as a team, but we are watching it happen. This is a great, great team.

pfrduke
08-20-2008, 11:02 AM
for all intensive purposes ending his career.

<Grammar police> "intents and purposes" </Grammar police>

(as an aside, that's one of my favorite slips - close to the "on track"/"untracked" confusion).

Uncle Drew
08-20-2008, 11:11 AM
<Grammar police> "intents and purposes" </Grammar police>

(as an aside, that's one of my favorite slips - close to the "on track"/"untracked" confusion).

Thank you for correcting my grammer and misunderstanding of the term. And to a previous poster Green may have been near the basket but Gaze did most of the damage. Pity too, Duke fell apart after Brickie went down. Had a damn good shot to beat Seton Hall, in fact should have. And a 50/50 shot of winning their first title two nights later.

DevilDan
08-20-2008, 11:14 AM
Props to our guys for a great game (3rd Qtr!) AND not letting the Aussie style of play concern them (the looks, the shoves, etc.) And when the camera was pointed at him, I fixed on GAZE like many Blue Devil fans. He's also not one of MY favorites.

The Duke-Seton Hall National Semifinal featured our guys (roughly 18-21), against the (as far as I can remember) 24-year-old Andrew Gaze and his team. Seemed rather unsporting, if you look at the matchup.

Kind of like our country sending a team of NCAA All-Stars to play in the Olympics against many teams of 25-35 year old professionals. Anyone remember that? We wised up and adjusted our Olympic team to feature our country's best ... and now years later, they are being led by the best coach, and a very good staff.

I will borrow (and adjust) a proclamation from a past world leader ... " Ve Vill Bury You ... " Can't wait for the SEMI's, and the Red, White & Blue to shine. GO USA !

hc5duke
08-20-2008, 11:29 AM
I may be watching the games with Duke blue tinted glasses, but Chris Paul has to be the worst player in the main rotation. Other than the one or two alley-oop passes, all I see is him throwing away wild passes, missing jumpers badly, and bad decisions on D. Compared to him Deron Williams looks very poised and mature, and he's only 1 year older than Paul. After watching the last 4 games, I'd even go with Kidd over Paul. I think he's had maybe 1 good game (Greece? I can't remember which one).

Are they just grooming him for the next Olympics? I know he was a last-minute addition, so maybe he's just not used to the system? Am I missing some off-the-ball plays completely?

BlueintheFace
08-20-2008, 11:36 AM
Seriously, GREAT GAME ON... tied at 66 for Argentina and Greece. They are trading threes with 5 mins left.

MChambers
08-20-2008, 11:40 AM
I don't know if any other Duke fans were thinking what I was thinking when they showed Andrew Gaze (sp) announcing for the Australian team. Every time I see the guy I remember him cutting Robert Brickie's legs out from under him in the Final Four against Seton Hall and for all intensive purposes ending his career.

The injury ended Brickey's season, but not his career. He had a fine 1989-90 season.

Uncle Drew
08-20-2008, 11:45 AM
The injury ended Brickey's season, but not his career. He had a fine 1989-90 season.

It REALLY hampered his leaping ability the next season, his biggest weapon in my opinion. And with his pre injury athletic ability I honestly think he could have been a really good NBA player.

roywhite
08-20-2008, 11:46 AM
I may be watching the games with Duke blue tinted glasses, but Chris Paul has to be the worst player in the main rotation. Other than the one or two alley-oop passes, all I see is him throwing away wild passes, missing jumpers badly, and bad decisions on D. Compared to him Deron Williams looks very poised and mature, and he's only 1 year older than Paul. After watching the last 4 games, I'd even go with Kidd over Paul. I think he's had maybe 1 good game (Greece? I can't remember which one).

Are they just grooming him for the next Olympics? I know he was a last-minute addition, so maybe he's just not used to the system? Am I missing some off-the-ball plays completely?

Not a great game today for Chris Paul. He has trouble against the Australian guard Patrick Mills, who is really fast and impressive (he's gotta be a pre-season All-America choice playing at St. Mary's).

But Paul had good overall numbers before today's game:
22 mins/game 52% FG; 3-9 3-pt; 8-8FT
23 assist/ 5 turnovers

If there is something lacking in Paul's game, it's the tendency to get out of his game sometimes, to react too much to a bad play, or a good opponent. We obviously saw some of his antics at Wake Forest when he could be out-and-out dirty; he's past that for the most part, but still needs to control his emotions on the court. (Deron Williams, who has played very well also, doesn't seem to have that same makeup and plays more under control.)

Paul may have a little ways to go in maturity, but if you watch him in the NBA, he is just spectacular much of the time.

billybreen
08-20-2008, 11:46 AM
<Grammar police> "intents and purposes" </Grammar police>

(as an aside, that's one of my favorite slips - close to the "on track"/"untracked" confusion).

Good catch. Intensive purposes is one of my favorites. I find it more amusing than grating. Untracked makes me want to punch people in the groin.

SMO
08-20-2008, 11:50 AM
<Grammar police> "intents and purposes" </Grammar police>

(as an aside, that's one of my favorite slips - close to the "on track"/"untracked" confusion).

I always liked "Don't take something for granite" as opposed to "for granted"

Anyway, did the hard fouls continue in the 2nd half? I had to check out at halftime.

roywhite
08-20-2008, 11:53 AM
I always liked "Don't take something for granite" as opposed to "for granted"

Anyway, did the hard fouls continue in the 2nd half? I had to check out at halftime.

Yep, there were some "bonafied" hard fouls. :)

BD80
08-20-2008, 12:15 PM
Good catch. Intensive purposes is one of my favorites. I find it more amusing than grating. ...

How about Melo in the Rocky Mountain News article linked by DBR:


"After '04, we were at the lowest point as far as USA Basketball was concerned," Anthony said. "We were at the bottom for us."

But Anthony can sense a "360-degree turnaround" is at hand.

Reminds me of a Texas Aggie joke.

At least he isn't amphibious.

Wander
08-20-2008, 12:18 PM
I may be watching the games with Duke blue tinted glasses, but Chris Paul has to be the worst player in the main rotation. Other than the one or two alley-oop passes, all I see is him throwing away wild passes, missing jumpers badly, and bad decisions on D. Compared to him Deron Williams looks very poised and mature, and he's only 1 year older than Paul. After watching the last 4 games, I'd even go with Kidd over Paul. I think he's had maybe 1 good game (Greece? I can't remember which one).

Are they just grooming him for the next Olympics? I know he was a last-minute addition, so maybe he's just not used to the system? Am I missing some off-the-ball plays completely?

Chris Paul has been the best of our three point guards (overall, not today). And if I remember correctly, he played his best game against Spain, our best opponent.

mgtr
08-20-2008, 12:30 PM
Yep, there were some "bonafied" hard fouls. :)

Viola!

hc5duke
08-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Reminds me of a Texas Aggie joke.

At least he isn't amphibious.

I think the 360 degree quote was in reference to Jason Kidd's old quote back when he was with the Mavericks (the first time around)

hc5duke
08-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Viola!

Ugh! All these grammatical/spelling errors are mind-bottling!

ArnieMc
08-20-2008, 03:25 PM
Viola!You mean "wallah" don't you. Also, we need a dominate big man.

Atlanta Duke
08-20-2008, 04:47 PM
New York Times praises Lebron and seems to be taking some shots at Kobe

Even with his hot second-half shooting, Bryant still has not quite bought into Coach Mike Krzyzewski’s team mantra of taking “U.S.A. shots.” It’s been a subtle way for Krzyzewski to preach to his players that the shots they take in N.B.A. team may not necessarily be the best ones for this team.

It is hard to criticize the play of the national team. It has won its six games here by an average of 32 points. But when the offense has stagnated, as in the first quarter Wednesday, when Australia trailed by just 25-24, it has typically been with Bryant forcing shots. Is that trying to find pimples on the Mona Lisa? Perhaps. But the numbers will show just how much better and more consistent James has played. ...

Thanks largely to James’s contributions, the Americans are very likely to be pleased at where they end up in this tournament. No one more than James. Not counting last summer’s FIBA Tournament of the Americas, he has not won a title since he was a high school senior in Ohio.

“This means a lot more to me than anything,” James said. “Representing my country and being out here playing against some of the best athletes in the world, this is big.”

And he has played like winning the gold is bigger than he is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/sports/olympics/21hoops.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

devildownunder
08-20-2008, 09:38 PM
Chris Paul has been the best of our three point guards (overall, not today). And if I remember correctly, he played his best game against Spain, our best opponent.


Among our point guards. I have been disappointed that he seems to be the third man in the rotation. It has been somewhat of a surprise to me that the "lead guard" style of d-will and d-wade has been more effective (just by my casual observation) than the more classic PG styles of Kidd and Paul. I wouldn't say any of the four have played poorly but I think our efficiency has gone up enough to be noticeable when wade and williams have been in. There could be numerous reasons for this. I think one of them is the fact that lbj is playing a lot of point forward. And btw, his attacking of the paint has been a trump card for the US so far.

devildownunder
08-20-2008, 09:45 PM
I don't know if any other Duke fans were thinking what I was thinking when they showed Andrew Gaze (sp) announcing for the Australian team. Every time I see the guy I remember him cutting Robert Brickie's legs out from under him in the Final Four against Seton Hall and for all intensive purposes ending his career.

Several years later durring a Christmas break game my brother and I got tickets to see Duke play the Aussie's in Cameron. Sitting right under the basket we got to heckle him repeatedly, and I have no doubt we got under his skin. I loved Robert and often wonder what could have been if he hadn't gotten hurt. I have to say outside of UNC players, for me Gaze is one of Duke's foes I loathe the most. Great win for the USA team, great win for Duke. Loved the Boozer stare down with the game in hand. Go USA, Go Duke!



Gaze went off on Boozer over the staredown. He got on a rant about how this was the kind of arrogance that wins the US enemies etc. The play-by-play guy tried to reel him, talking about how much the Redeem Team has done to repair damaged PR. And Gaze did calm down eventually. It's interesting to be an expat during the Olympics. People are VERY sensitive.

Wander
08-20-2008, 09:48 PM
I am a little curious why so many here think Deron Williams has been better than Chris Paul. I think Paul has been better. Not a ton better, but noticably better. I don't have a bunch of stats or anything, but just watching I've thought Paul has been great defensively - better than Williams. That defense is what does it for me.

devildownunder
08-20-2008, 09:51 PM
I am a little curious why so many here think Deron Williams has been better than Chris Paul. I think Paul has been better. Not a ton better, but noticably better. I don't have a bunch of stats or anything, but just watching I've thought Paul has been great defensively - better than Williams. That defense is what does it for me.

my assessment has been largely based on offense. Williams seems much more under control to me. It's all based on casual observation, though. Next game I'll make it a point to focus on cp3's D.

ice-9
08-20-2008, 11:14 PM
New York Times praises Lebron and seems to be taking some shots at Kobe

Even with his hot second-half shooting, Bryant still has not quite bought into Coach Mike Krzyzewski’s team mantra of taking “U.S.A. shots.” It’s been a subtle way for Krzyzewski to preach to his players that the shots they take in N.B.A. team may not necessarily be the best ones for this team.

It is hard to criticize the play of the national team. It has won its six games here by an average of 32 points. But when the offense has stagnated, as in the first quarter Wednesday, when Australia trailed by just 25-24, it has typically been with Bryant forcing shots. Is that trying to find pimples on the Mona Lisa? Perhaps. But the numbers will show just how much better and more consistent James has played. ...

Thanks largely to James’s contributions, the Americans are very likely to be pleased at where they end up in this tournament. No one more than James. Not counting last summer’s FIBA Tournament of the Americas, he has not won a title since he was a high school senior in Ohio.

“This means a lot more to me than anything,” James said. “Representing my country and being out here playing against some of the best athletes in the world, this is big.”

And he has played like winning the gold is bigger than he is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/sports/olympics/21hoops.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


I wholly agree with the above excerpt. The USA offense stalled completely with Kobe forcing shots and missing them. Does he really need to shoot a contested three pointer with plenty of time left on the clock when there are so many other scoring options? Thankfully for Kobe he started making them in the second half, otherwise it would have been a dreadful game for him and might make team dynamics feel uncomfortable.

LeBron and Dwayne have the right mentality on offense. They shoot the jumper only when open, pass, or drive in with the aim of making the easy layup, creating the foul, or dishing to an open teammate. This is what Kobe needs to do to get into the flow of the offense...NOT take contested long distance shots.

BD80
08-20-2008, 11:35 PM
This is funny:


Mike Krzyzewski sent Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Bosh onto the floor. I think that has to be the quickest lineup in the history of the game, though to be fair, I haven’t seen the Jamaican national team. ...

The floor seemed to tilt. ...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080820/SPORTS17/80820053/1048/SPORTS

I can't imagine a faster lineup.

gep
08-21-2008, 12:04 AM
my assessment has been largely based on offense. Williams seems much more under control to me. It's all based on casual observation, though. Next game I'll make it a point to focus on cp3's D.

Brief time-out please... why is Chris Paul referred to as CP3 or CP III? I don't think I remember seeing a reason...:confused:

hc5duke
08-21-2008, 12:11 AM
Brief time-out please... why is Chris Paul referred to as CP3 or CP III? I don't think I remember seeing a reason...:confused:

I thought this was a pretty common thing? I guess it's the JLofication of the NBA... Of course, CP stands for child porn on 4chan so that's not the best initials...

pfrduke
08-21-2008, 12:57 AM
Brief time-out please... why is Chris Paul referred to as CP3 or CP III? I don't think I remember seeing a reason...:confused:

His initials and his number - he wore 3 at Wake and w/ NO, although not w/ Team USA.

gep
08-21-2008, 01:47 AM
thanks, guys... :)