Zack Greer graduates Duke, will use last year of eligibility at Bryant

[KBCrazie]

According to The Chronicle and Inside Lacrosse "anonymous sources" have confirmed it:

http://chroniclesports.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/zack-greer-leaves-duke-enrolls-at-bryant-for-pressler/

http://blogs.insidelacrosse.com/2008/08/11/former-duke-star-zack-greer-to-attend-bryant/

Should provide a big boost to the Bryant program, which is debuting in Division I this year. What does it mean for Duke's title chances next year?

Note: since Zach got his Duke diploma this year, he's not technically leaving, he's just not choosing to use his 5th year of eligibility at Duke.

Note': It may not have been his "choice" as it has been rumored that he was not accepted by Fuqua, but was accepted by Bryant's B-school.

[roywhite]

That's a pretty interesting development. I didn't even know where Bryant was (Rhode Island) until reading the linked pieces. Seems to me like a great expression of loyalty to Coach Pressler on Zack's part.

Wish him well. He has been a terrific player for Duke.

[bigj4194]

I wish Zack well...he will be missed. But as an avid lacrosse fan as well, this is not all that surprising. There was a lot of talk this year about Greer leaving Duke to be closer to Canada and home, which is what he wanted. This move can also be viewed as a way to be with Coach Pressler again, which again is something that Greer wanted. While I haven't talked to him obviously, I do know some members of the team who while they like Coach Danowski many liked Pressler as a Coach. Remember Pressler was the one who originally recruited Greer to Duke as opposed to many of the other top programs who were very interested in him.

In terms of our chances for this upcoming year Greer leaving will definitely hurt our chances. We still have a fantastic attackman in Quinzani and we still have fantastic midfielders and a great faceoff man Sam Payton. I think we will have a great team but will have to overcome some major losses. If we can overcome these I think that we will have a great season with a great team.

[johnb]

Without some facts, it's hard to know what to make of the decision. If he was accepted to Duke's MBA program, it seems like a poor business decision to go to a relatively unknown place like Bryant. Not only does he miss out on a chance for a lacrosse NC with Duke, he misses out on the education. If, however, he wasn't accepted by the B school (which would seem a bit odd, since the B school has different criteria than the Med or Law Schools and so would presumably have some latitude if grades were an issue--and I have no idea about his grades or anything at all about the guy), then he would face an interesting dilemma. If he were unable to stay at Duke and did want to get an MBA, then it seems unlikely that he'd get into another top business school (ie, why would he get into Cornell or Virginia if he didn't get into Duke). Under that scenario, might as well join up with his old coach.

In a different scenario, he lost his father midway through freshman year, has strong feelings for Pressler, wants to coach, and relishes the idea of being a sort of player/coach during his 5th year.

Or maybe he just likes colder winters.

Either way, next year will be very different for him. He had been one of the stars on what may have been the most talented team in NCAA history. Next year, they'll presumably lose most of their games.

Anyway, good luck to him.

[Bluedog]

Without some facts, it's hard to know what to make of the decision. If he was accepted to Duke's MBA program, it seems like a poor business decision to go to a relatively unknown place like Bryant. Not only does he miss out on a chance for a lacrosse NC with Duke, he misses out on the education.

I agree but Bryant offers a one-year MBA program, while Duke's MBA is two years. And he only has one year of lacrosse eligibility left; so that could have played a role as well since I assume he is going to join Major League Lacrosse following this year. That way he can still have a business degree and play in the MLL - while if he was at Duke, he'd have to wait another year to play in the MLL or not get his degree.

[chrishoke]

Best of luck Zach! It was a pleasure following your career.

[formerdukeathlete]

According to The Chronicle and Inside Lacrosse "anonymous sources" have confirmed it:

http://chroniclesports.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/zack-greer-leaves-duke-enrolls-at-bryant-for-pressler/

http://blogs.insidelacrosse.com/2008/08/11/former-duke-star-zack-greer-to-attend-bryant/

Should provide a big boost to the Bryant program, which is debuting in Division I this year. What does it mean for Duke's title chances next year?

Note: since Zach got his Duke diploma this year, he's not technically leaving, he's just not choosing to use his 5th year of eligibility at Duke.

Note': It may not have been his "choice" as it has been rumored that he was not accepted by Fuqua, but was accepted by Bryant's B-school.

Thanks for the links. There must be more to this story. Perhaps Zack expected to be in Fuqua and there was a last minute snag. I have a hard time understanding why UVa or UNC would not have taken him in b-school. (Maybe Zack did not want to play against his old teammates at Duke.) In fact, I have a hard time believing Fuqua would not take him. Zack is the best attackman in the country and not a slouch academically.

Perhaps he is motivated more by wanting to do something for Mike Pressler, to help rehabilitate the man's reputation, which was tarnished so unfairly in the lax incident.

[phaedrus]

No offense intended to Zack, but Duke is a top-10 business school, likely has one of the lowest acceptance rates among b-schools in the country, and like most business schools basically requires significant (post-graduate) work experience. Even if Greer was not a "slouch" academically, getting into Fuqua is not exactly assured for anyone. Having a successful athletic career only goes so far in graduate school admissions.

[formerdukeathlete]

No offense intended to Zack, but Duke is a top-10 business school, likely has one of the lowest acceptance rates among b-schools in the country, and like most business schools basically requires significant (post-graduate) work experience. Even if Greer was not a "slouch" academically, getting into Fuqua is not exactly assured for anyone. Having a successful athletic career only goes so far in graduate school admissions.

A good number of Duke athletes have applied to Fuqua in the past and been admitted, even without work experience. While I do not know exactly the particulars, I understand Zack was qualified to be admitted to Fuqua. And, perhaps well-qualified on a relative basis, in the mix of athletes who have gone on for their MBA. Fuqua is out of the top 10 now with US News. At a time when it was even higher ranked than today, kids like Quin Snyder enrolled without business work experience. I think it is fair to allow athletic experience to supplant the work experience requirement (a lot of leadership, hard work involved).

The answer to the question might be as easy as looking at the list of plaintiffs in the ongoing lawsuit by 38 current and former lax players.

http://www.bork.com/downloads/02-21-08-Complaint.pdf

With this going on perhaps the U was not interested in providing any extra consideration, other than honoring its original scholarship commitment to Zack, without a concession from Zack.

[Wander]

Do you know Greer's GPA? GMAT scores? Have you read his essay(s) and recommendation letters?

[buddy]

It's well known that Zach wanted to be closer to home (Whitby, Canada), and that he did not want to play against his (now) former teammates. I have no idea what his grades, GMATs, or letters of recommendations said. I do not think he was all-Academic ACC, which meant he did not regularly get 3.0 or higher GPAs. I also do not know how much room, if any, Duke had in their scholarship budget. (While the 5th year was great in terms of giving the players another chance, there are still only 12.7 scholarships per year. At 45,000+ per year, it is a bit much to expect parents to pay that when they can get assistance elsewhere. Due to the move from Division II to Division I, Bryant probably has more flexibility, i.e. had not made the scholarship commitments that Duke had made.)

He is a terrific lacrosse player, and we were privileged to watch him for three and a half years. It's unfortunate that his Duke experience did not result in the ultimate success he and his teammates strove to achieve. Best wishes to Zach in all future endeavors.

[formerdukeathlete]

Do you know Greer's GPA? GMAT scores? Have you read his essay(s) and recommendation letters?

the essay and recommendation letters, one may presume were fine.

He was ACC Honor Roll, so that is a 3.0 or better. As to what he may have had on his GMATs....he was recruited by Princeton for Lacrosse, I believe, so one might infer from that he takes a pretty good standardized test.

[formerdukeathlete]

It's well known that Zach wanted to be closer to home (Whitby, Canada), and that he did not want to play against his (now) former teammates. I have no idea what his grades, GMATs, or letters of recommendations said. I do not think he was all-Academic ACC, which meant he did not regularly get 3.0 or higher GPAs. I also do not know how much room, if any, Duke had in their scholarship budget. (While the 5th year was great in terms of giving the players another chance, there are still only 12.7 scholarships per year. At 45,000+ per year, it is a bit much to expect parents to pay that when they can get assistance elsewhere. Due to the move from Division II to Division I, Bryant probably has more flexibility, i.e. had not made the scholarship commitments that Duke had made.)

He is a terrific lacrosse player, and we were privileged to watch him for three and a half years. It's unfortunate that his Duke experience did not result in the ultimate success he and his teammates strove to achieve. Best wishes to Zach in all future endeavors.

I would have to think that Zack and his mother are plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Duke has bearing in this.

Matt Danowski could stay on a year with his father a coach - free tuition. Zack might have been able to go to Fuqua, but what would have been the financial aid package? He is the best attackman in the country, so Duke has to allocate some scholarship money if he stays. The rest?...well as an undergrad, if Zack otherwise qualifies for financial aid, there might be quite a bit of additional grant money on the basis of need. B-schools, on the other hand, are (at least they used to be) notorious for awarding grants solely on the basis of merit - and you just borrow the rest. Bryant, might have given him a full ride for the 08-09 year. So, he weighs the options....which might have possibly been as follows:

A) Stay at Duke, get into Fuqua, get 1/2 of an athletic scholarship his first year at Fuqua, borrow $90k over 2 years as there is little financial need-based grant aid, and withdraw as a plaintiff from the lawsuit; or

B) Go to Bryant, play for his coach, attend graduate b-school for free in year one on an athletic scholarship and for free in year two on a merit scholarship (based on possibly a higher GMAT than average and his Duke degree), and stay with his former teammates who continue to press the litigation.

First year of Fuqua also has got to be tough playing a varsity sport, when all of your classmates are doing nothing other than booking it.

[Wander]

the essay and recommendation letters, one may presume were fine.

He was ACC Honor Roll, so that is a 3.0 or better. As to what he may have had on his GMATs....he was recruited by Princeton for Lacrosse, I believe, so one might infer from that he takes a pretty good standardized test.

In other words... no, no, no, and no. Meaning you're not even close to a position to speculate on why he's not going to Fuqua.

[formerdukeathlete]

In other words... no, no, no, and no. Meaning you're not even close to a position to speculate on why he's not going to Fuqua.

I would say that I am as close or closer than the poster who speculated that Zack Greer was denied admission to Fuqua. This was third party, anecdotal, with no reference cited.

Now, if you go back and check, you will find Zack Greer was recruited by Ivies for Lacrosse. Yes, he may have been on the ACC Honor Roll just 2 of his years at Duke, or maybe it was three?, which implies about a 3.0 average. There is a strong correlation between performance on the Math and Verbal SAT and performance on the GMAT. I can tell you of specific instances of athletes who have been admitted to Fuqua when Fuqua was higher rated than it is today, with most likely lower credentials than Greer. One may reasonablly surmise, imo, that the reasons Zack Greer did not stay on for another year and attend Fuqua were at least as likely to be related to his being a plaintiff in a lawsuit against the University, his loyalty to Mike Pressler, and wish to be closer to home.

This is a discussion board. It is only fair to consider what is likely, and I submit it is more likely that Fuqua was an option, had Greer wanted it badly enough. So, yes, based on what I know and could reasonably infer, where Greer was recruited out of high school (good SATs which correlate with GMATs), that he made Honor Roll, his leadership qualities, it is highly unlikely that Fuqua was not an option, albeit, possibly with conditions.

[Clipsfan]

At a time when it was even higher ranked than today, kids like Quin Snyder enrolled without business work experience.

Quin Snyder didn't enroll in just Fuqua, he did the JD/MBA program. It is much more common for students to do the combined program just out of undergrad as they typically start with law school (commonly done straight from undergrad) and start mixing in business classes the second year.

In Quin's case, he didn't do the combined program directly from undergrad, but rather a couple years later. He graduated from Duke undergrad in 1989 and received his JD and MBA degrees in 1995, 6 years later. The joint program is a 4-year program, meaning even he took a couple years off in between

VERY FEW students go directly to good business schools, with the main reason being that they would have no context for the classes. They tend to be completely out of their element.

[chrishoke]

Just FYI, another lacrosse player, Tony McDevitt, just this past year was admitted to Fuqua and played a fifth year at Duke.

[formerdukeathlete]

Quin Snyder didn't enroll in just Fuqua, he did the JD/MBA program. It is much more common for students to do the combined program just out of undergrad as they typically start with law school (commonly done straight from undergrad) and start mixing in business classes the second year.

In Quin's case, he didn't do the combined program directly from undergrad, but rather a couple years later. He graduated from Duke undergrad in 1989 and received his JD and MBA degrees in 1995, 6 years later. The joint program is a 4-year program, meaning even he took a couple years off in between

VERY FEW students go directly to good business schools, with the main reason being that they would have no context for the classes. They tend to be completely out of their element.

You post is very fair. Tony McDevitt, a 5th year senior this past season, and an ACC Honor Roll student like Greer, was a first year student at Fuqua this past season, and is about to start his second year. I do not know the specific comparison between the two kids. I believe Tony had an offer or two on Wall Street, but chose to stay on another year and attend Fuqua in the alternative.

I also agree that work experience is very helpful for the b-school context. When I did my joint degree program I had just 1 year of experience. I, personally would have gotten more out of it if I had another year or two of work experience under my belt.


From the 2007-2008 roster on goduke.com:

"Preseason First Team All-America choice ... candidate for the William F. Schmeisser National Defensive Player of the Year honor ... returning two-time All-America selection ... listed as the sixth-top defenseman in the nation by Inside Lacrosse magazine ... did not participate in fall practice while recovering from knee surgery performed in June, 2007... graduated from Duke on May 13, 2007, majoring in history with a minor in economics ... currently pursuing an MBA in Duke’s Fuqua School of Business ... ACC Academic Honor Roll pick."

[formerdukeathlete]

Just FYI, another lacrosse player, Tony McDevitt, just this past year was admitted to Fuqua and played a fifth year at Duke.


I was a little too slow at the switch:)

[Wander]

This is a discussion board. It is only fair to consider what is likely, and I submit it is more likely that Fuqua was an option, had Greer wanted it badly enough.

Let me repeat. You have absolutely no clue what this kid's GMAT scores are, you have absolutely no clue what his essays looked like, you have absolutely no clue what his recommendations looked like, and you have a slight clue that his GPA might be around a certain value (a value which is significantly lower than Fuqua's average, by the way). It's fine to consider what is likely, but you have no idea what is likely.



I would say that I am as close or closer than the poster who speculated that Zack Greer was denied admission to Fuqua.


Saying "since Duke is such a highly rated school and I don't know anything about this kid's application, it's possible he didn't have what it takes to get in" is reasonable. Saying "I have a hard time believing that UNC or UVA wouldn't accept this kid" when you know absolute crap about him is not reasonable.

[LetItBD08]

Anecdotal evidence alert: Tony McDevitt was an exceptionally bright student. Granted I say this only from taking one history class with him over two years ago, but he really drove that class. When I heard he was admitted to Fuqua right after his senior year (a feat that appears rare), I wasn't all that surprised. That kid could more than hold his own both athletically and academically. I don't know a thing about Greer's academic abilities nor do I know admissions criteria for Fuqua. Just wanted to point out that, in my opinion, Tony's enrollment in Fuqua (and his Wall Street offers) most likely stem from the fact that he appears to be an extremely intelligent and driven man.

[formerdukeathlete]

Let me repeat. You have absolutely no clue what this kid's GMAT scores are, you have absolutely no clue what his essays looked like, you have absolutely no clue what his recommendations looked like, and you have a slight clue that his GPA might be around a certain value (a value which is significantly lower than Fuqua's average, by the way). It's fine to consider what is likely, but you have no idea what is likely.



Saying "since Duke is such a highly rated school and I don't know anything about this kid's application, it's possible he didn't have what it takes to get in" is reasonable. Saying "I have a hard time believing that UNC or UVA wouldn't accept this kid" when you know absolute crap about him is not reasonable.

What we know is that Greer is one of the if not the best attackman in the country, about a 3.0 student at Duke, a pretty strong student out of high school with likely good SATs - to be recruited by Ivies. I dont know with certainty of course what his GMATs were, but they were probably ok - given the correlations, and I have to think that there is a good chance that either UNC or UVA would have offered him admission to b-school in connection with landing the top attackman in the country. Tony McDevitt's case illustrates something. In the realm of things my giving Greer props and benefit of the doubt that he might indeed have been admissible to Fuqua, but chose not to take advantage of this for other reasons, seems fair. Over and out.

[chrishoke]

Anecdotal evidence alert: Tony McDevitt was an exceptionally bright student. Granted I say this only from taking one history class with him over two years ago, but he really drove that class. When I heard he was admitted to Fuqua right after his senior year (a feat that appears rare), I wasn't all that surprised. That kid could more than hold his own both athletically and academically. I don't know a thing about Greer's academic abilities nor do I know admissions criteria for Fuqua. Just wanted to point out that, in my opinion, Tony's enrollment in Fuqua (and his Wall Street offers) most likely stem from the fact that he appears to be an extremely intelligent and driven man.

That's nice to hear and not surprising. My son and I are big Duke lacrosse fans and Tony was our favorite. I had the pleasure of lecturing to one of his classes at Fuqua.

[Inonehand]

Let me repeat. You have absolutely no clue what this kid's GMAT scores are, you have absolutely no clue what his essays looked like, you have absolutely no clue what his recommendations looked like, and you have a slight clue that his GPA might be around a certain value (a value which is significantly lower than Fuqua's average, by the way). It's fine to consider what is likely, but you have no idea what is likely.



Saying "since Duke is such a highly rated school and I don't know anything about this kid's application, it's possible he didn't have what it takes to get in" is reasonable. Saying "I have a hard time believing that UNC or UVA wouldn't accept this kid" when you know absolute crap about him is not reasonable.

Your rip of FDA is totally uncalled for. His posts include, at most, no more speculation than your own. Let's tone it down a little bit.

I will say this much, Fuqua has let in many former athletes without work experience. Tommy Amaker was admitted but did not finish. Joe Alleva's son, Jeff, graduated a year or so ago. I'm certain if researched you'd find many others. I have no idea if Zach was admitted, not admitted, or even applied. It remains a very good possibility that even if admitted he did not relish paying for that second year. The earlier posts that stated he might not have THIS year paid for in full do not seem based in any kind of reality however. He is quite possibly the best player in the country. Whatever and why-ever, he will be missed at Duke but he gave us a fun few years. Just wish him luck at Bryant, playing under a very good man.

[phaedrus]

Looks like an argument, not a rip, to me. I do wish the best for Greer - I just hope that if he were accepted by Fuqua, it was because of his academic credentials primarily and his athletic accomplishments second. It should take more than "ok" grades, GMAT, and essays to get into a top business school, and while Greer perhaps did better than ok, it's not fair to assume he did simply because he was a Duke student.

But again, I hope the Bryant decision turns out to be a good one for him. It was fun following him for a few years.

[Wander]

I will say this much, Fuqua has let in many former athletes without work experience. Tommy Amaker was admitted but did not finish. Joe Alleva's son, Jeff, graduated a year or so ago. I'm certain if researched you'd find many others.

This is completely and 100% irrelevant. Who's suggesting that athletes can't make it into business school? Not me. There are plenty of athletes who have what it takes to make into business/law/grad/med school and plenty of athletes who don't - just like the rest of the student body. I wish we still had Greer next year because I want our lacrosse team to crush all our opponents by 25 points. I hope he does well at his new school because the kid gave us some good years at Duke.



Your rip of FDA is totally uncalled for.


You know what's uncalled for? Suggesting there's something shady going on here when there's absolutely zero evidence to support it. It's no better than the "I heard player X might transfer" stuff we deal with every offseason.

[Inonehand]

Looks like an argument, not a rip, to me. I do wish the best for Greer - I just hope that if he were accepted by Fuqua, it was because of his academic credentials primarily and his athletic accomplishments second. It should take more than "ok" grades, GMAT, and essays to get into a top business school, and while Greer perhaps did better than ok, it's not fair to assume he did simply because he was a Duke student.

But again, I hope the Bryant decision turns out to be a good one for him. It was fun following him for a few years.

Argument, rip, whatever. It is being poorly handled.

As for your hope listed above, let's not get too overboard on the academic credentials over athletic ones debate...even at Duke we DO know many of the athletes wouldn't get into undergrad here based on their academic credentials only. There are many other things looked at, including athletics. To say we shouldn't do that for 5th year students wanting to go to grad school is drawing a line in quicksand.

[JD79]

Has anyone discussed how he can transfer to another school and not sit out a year as a transfer student? Did he (and others) get special permission to bypass that standard?

[FireOgilvie]

Has anyone discussed how he can transfer to another school and not sit out a year as a transfer student? Did he (and others) get special permission to bypass that standard?

That rule doesn't exist for lacrosse... only basketall and football (I believe).

Also, I don't think it would matter because he already graduated from Duke and is pursuing a graduate degree.

[Regenman]

I'm going to chime in here since I took classes with Quin Snyder back at Duke Law and at Fuqua.

Making an assessment of Zach's suitability (and perhaps comparing it to Quin) because he has over a 3.0 is a crock of @#$@. Quin was a pretty damn smart guy that got a double major at Duke and was an Academic All American.

Let's be clear, Quin had "business work experience" before entering the JD/MBA track. It was called trying out for the NBA and also working at the Duke Management Company. Both experiences that are not reflected necessarily in the student body at Fuqua. Trust me, varsity college athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law are a dime a dozen. Off the top of my head, I can name of Sonja Henning (Stanford national champ, WNBA), Eric Riley (backup center at UM to Webber), and lots of Princeton varsity athletes (at least 2 women on the volleyball team and one center from the bball team) as folks in my classes that I played pick-up ball or IM volleyball with while at Duke. That's not even talking about the Duke Law loaded IM team which consisted entirely of folks that were varsity b-ballers in college.

So stop using Quin as a potential barometer for Zach, it's not even remotely the same thing. [PS throw in that stint playing for the GBA, serving on Coach K's staff, and that one year with the LA Clippers--think Greer has that on his resume?]

[DukieInKansas]

It doesn't matter whether he could or couldn't get in to Fuqua. He has decided to attend Bryant. Would I like to see him at Duke for another year - you bet! However, he has chosen to go to Bryant for his 5th year of eligibility. What is the point of discussing whether he did or didn't apply or whether he could or couldn't get in?

Thank you, Zach, for the fun of watching you play in a Duke uniform. I hope you enjoy playing with Coach Pressler next year. I hope you have a successful year (unless you play Duke :)). Best of luck in all you do.

[Inonehand]

I'm going to chime in here since I took classes with Quin Snyder back at Duke Law and at Fuqua.

Making an assessment of Zach's suitability (and perhaps comparing it to Quin) because he has over a 3.0 is a crock of @#$@. Quin was a pretty damn smart guy that got a double major at Duke and was an Academic All American.

Let's be clear, Quin had "business work experience" before entering the JD/MBA track. It was called trying out for the NBA and also working at the Duke Management Company. Both experiences that are not reflected necessarily in the student body at Fuqua. Trust me, varsity college athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law are a dime a dozen. Off the top of my head, I can name of Sonja Henning (Stanford national champ, WNBA), Eric Riley (backup center at UM to Webber), and lots of Princeton varsity athletes (at least 2 women on the volleyball team and one center from the bball team) as folks in my classes that I played pick-up ball or IM volleyball with while at Duke. That's not even talking about the Duke Law loaded IM team which consisted entirely of folks that were varsity b-ballers in college.

So stop using Quin as a potential barometer for Zach, it's not even remotely the same thing. [PS throw in that stint playing for the GBA, serving on Coach K's staff, and that one year with the LA Clippers--think Greer has that on his resume?]

Geez, did you take classes with him or stalk him. I think Quin was brought up just once, and other names as well so your post seems a little overboard. I know Quin well, and you are right, he was a very good student but had very little work experience prior to Fuqua, albeit more than Zach. There have been plenty of students (athletes and not) that have gone straight to business school without prior experience and have done very well, in school and post.

[Regenman]

Inonehand,

If you want to insult me with the stalker comment, let me treat you appropriately.

Since you seem to think that Wander "ripped" FDA, maybe you should be the one reassessing your reading ability (or heck your ability to count). Quin came up twice and FDA was using him as a "relevant" example on which to base Zach's application to Fuqua. That's why I think it was an apt statement to note that Academic All American is considerably more prestigious that ACC Honor Roll and the subsequent comments about other varsity athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law.

I'll reiterate Clipsfan. There are not lots of folks right out of undergrad at any of the top b-schools. I just have no idea where you're pulling that idea out of. I'm pretty close to the admissions at Stanford B-school and there's not a hint of a 22 year old in the Stanford classes. Fuqua is a little different but not by much. Duke Law, on the other hand, has a very large proportion of students that go straight in from undergrad.

As for stalking, frankly Quin was in a 10 person seminar class of mine 3rd year and had to borrow my notes extensively. My 3 man volleyball team also beat his team when they finally got the court going back in 94. Feel free to call that stalking, but he was the main celebrity in that class and everybody knew his background. Feel free to throw more insults my way.

[Thurber Whyte]

I do not know about the Fuqua angle. The rumor I heard around tournament time was that Zack Greer was leaning toward going to Ohio State. That may have changed when Ohio State’s coach moved to UNC. The reason I offer this is simply to point out that Duke may not have been Zack’s first choice or even his second. If it had been, I am sure that Duke could have found an appropriate academic pursuit for its all time leading scorer.

One reason cited was his desire to be closer to home. Smithfield, Rhode Island is about the same distance from Whitby, Ontario as Columbus, Ohio.

Before we get our knickers in a twist speculating about exactly what a hypothetical application by him to Fuqua might look like, keep in mind that there are not one but several variables on both sides of the equation. I am very sorry to see him go. However, I want him to do what is best for him and Bryant sounds like a very good situation.

Also, I do not think there is no different rule for lacrosse. I believe that, in any sport, once a player graduates, they are free to immediately use whatever eligibility they have at another school. A Duke football player did this a few years ago. He graduated and played for Youngstown State the following season.

[Inonehand]

Inonehand,

If you want to insult me with the stalker comment, let me treat you appropriately.

Since you seem to think that Wander "ripped" FDA, maybe you should be the one reassessing your reading ability (or heck your ability to count). Quin came up twice and FDA was using him as a "relevant" example on which to base Zach's application to Fuqua. That's why I think it was an apt statement to note that Academic All American is considerably more prestigious that ACC Honor Roll and the subsequent comments about other varsity athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law.

I'll reiterate Clipsfan. There are not lots of folks right out of undergrad at any of the top b-schools. I just have no idea where you're pulling that idea out of. I'm pretty close to the admissions at Stanford B-school and there's not a hint of a 22 year old in the Stanford classes. Fuqua is a little different but not by much. Duke Law, on the other hand, has a very large proportion of students that go straight in from undergrad.

As for stalking, frankly Quin was in a 10 person seminar class of mine 3rd year and had to borrow my notes extensively. My 3 man volleyball team also beat his team when they finally got the court going back in 94. Feel free to call that stalking, but he was the main celebrity in that class and everybody knew his background. Feel free to throw more insults my way.

Actually, I thought the stalker comment was funny as opposed to insulting but thin skin abounds on this board so I will refrain. Comparing an Academic All-America in basketball to an ACC Honor Roll student in lax is actually not that inappropriate however. Lax is full of non-scholarship kids who start and star and got into school NEARLY on their own while basketball players in the NCAA get a pretty much free pass into school as long as they can read and write and add. Was Quin in that last category, no, absolutely not. Is it easier to rank above the majority of hoops stars academically than lax players if you remotely resemble the average student at your university and apply yourself, absolutely. Quin happened to be in THAT category. I am proud to call him a fellow Duke alum. And fellow Fuqua alum.

[blazindw]

Has anyone discussed how he can transfer to another school and not sit out a year as a transfer student? Did he (and others) get special permission to bypass that standard?


That rule doesn't exist for lacrosse... only basketall and football (I believe).

Also, I don't think it would matter because he already graduated from Duke and is pursuing a graduate degree.


You're right FO...because he's graduated, he's free to use his last year of eligibility at any post-graduate school he wishes, and doesn't have to sit out a year. You see this a lot in football (some recent Duke examples are Shawn Johnson--not the gymnast--and Ben Patrick, both of whom played their 5th year at Delaware). Basketball also has this rule.

Had Zach Greer been a junior when he transferred, he would have to sit out a year. IIRC, Colin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann would have had to sit out a year, but got permission from the NCAA to transfer immediately due to the lacrosse situation.

[Inonehand]

You're right FO...because he's graduated, he's free to use his last year of eligibility at any post-graduate school he wishes, and doesn't have to sit out a year. You see this a lot in football (some recent Duke examples are Shawn Johnson--not the gymnast--and Ben Patrick, both of whom played their 5th year at Delaware). Basketball also has this rule.

Had Zach Greer been a junior when he transferred, he would have to sit out a year. IIRC, Colin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann would have had to sit out a year, but got permission from the NCAA to transfer immediately due to the lacrosse situation.

This is all incorrect. Except for basketball, ice hockey, football and starting this year baseball, I believe, a Div I athlete can use a one-time transfer to any school he or she wishes and become immediately eligible. The only reason Patrick and Johnson and others like them were able to play immediately is because they transferred to schools not in the Football Subdivision (using the older, more understandable monikers, they went from Div IA to Div IAA. The graduation piece of it did not come into play. Simply put, the old school just has to release you. Now, if a walkon hoops player who was not recruited and not given a scholarship wanted to transfer, I believe he/she would be able to play immediately as well. It has to do with not signing a letter of intent.

[Bluedog]

That rule doesn't exist for lacrosse... only basketall and football (I believe).

Also, I don't think it would matter because he already graduated from Duke and is pursuing a graduate degree.

Exactly. Can we please rename this thread? Its misleading in that it suggests he is transferring. He's not transferring - he already graduated.