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BlueintheFace
08-11-2008, 12:31 PM
Rather than using the pre-olympic thread to discuss all the games, I figure it would be better to have different threads for each game... so, I am starting the thread for the Angola game here.

They look like a really small team, so I guess we will see an awful lot of zone. Angola continually qualifies by winning the FIBA Africa games every four years, but they continually get last or second-to-last in the olympics. In other words, this should be a blowout. There are really only two players of note on the team, Cipriano (the all around athlete) and Mingas (the sharpshooter).

--Look for Deron Williams and whoever is playing down low to have big games. Williams has shown a great ability to break zones and get to the basket, while our big men should have a significant size advantage n the boards.

Note-- Nobody on Angola plays professionally outside of Africa

Previous Result- Germany 95- Angola 66

roywhite
08-11-2008, 12:46 PM
I'd like to see Carmelo Anthony get untracked. Seems like his shot is not falling; he has very positive international experience but has not been playing at the level of LeBron, Kobe, and Dwayne Wade. Seems to me I saw or heard a dig at his conditioning?

Agree with the take on Deron Williams. He and Chris Paul are both playing well.

gep
08-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Previous Result- Germany 95- Angola 66

Interesting result... for whatever it's worth, Angola did beat China earlier in July...:confused:

Edouble
08-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Thanks for the info on Angola, BlueInTheFace. I hadn't heard any digs at 'Melo's conditioning, but I would be suprised if he doesn't have a very good showing for us tomorrow morning.

I'd like for us to get up a nice lead in the first quarter.

Based on the fact that our dunks were getting huge cheers when we were playing China, I have to think that we will be sort of the home team alternate from here on out.

Jeffrey
08-11-2008, 01:30 PM
Hi,

What's game time (EST)?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Indoor66
08-11-2008, 02:30 PM
Hi,

What's game time (EST)?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Tuesday, Aug 12

US v Angola

2:30 a.m. Live (NBC)

8:00 a.m. Replay (USA)

Duvall
08-11-2008, 02:50 PM
Another question - who will deliver the traditional cheap shot? Chris Paul, your country needs you.

hc5duke
08-11-2008, 02:59 PM
I'd like to see Carmelo Anthony get untracked. Seems like his shot is not falling; he has very positive international experience but has not been playing at the level of LeBron, Kobe, and Dwayne Wade. Seems to me I saw or heard a dig at his conditioning?

Pet peeve... <grammar nazi>untracked is semantically incorrect. You mean get back "on track".</grammar nazi>


Another question - who will deliver the traditional cheap shot? Chris Paul, your country needs you.

Dammit! I thought I would be the first to mention Chris Paul and chucking spears...

DukeUsul
08-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I'd like to see Carmelo Anthony get untracked. Seems like his shot is not falling; he has very positive international experience but has not been playing at the level of LeBron, Kobe, and Dwayne Wade. Seems to me I saw or heard a dig at his conditioning?

Agree with the take on Deron Williams. He and Chris Paul are both playing well.

Well, I certainly hope Melo doesn't lose a track off of his tank or earthmover (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/untracked)....

:D

But I agree with you roy, I'd love to see Melo get back to where he was a few weeks ago. He looked pretty so-so in the game vs. China.

FYI, as an aside, here's an interesting historical analysis of the use of the word untracked (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002148.html) in this context.

P.S. Dang you hc5, you beat me to the punch.

_Gary
08-11-2008, 03:42 PM
But I agree with you roy, I'd love to see Melo get back to where he was a few weeks ago. He looked pretty so-so in the game vs. China.

His recent lackluster play in the exhibitions leading up to the Olympics is the only reason I did not start him over Wade.

_Gary
08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
His recent lackluster play in the exhibitions leading up to the Olympics is the only reason I did not start him over Wade.

In the "Who would you start" poll thread, I mean.

happydays1949
08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Seems to me I saw or heard a dig at his conditioning?

\

One of the announcers in either the Australia or China game mentioned it. It was just a sentence or two, and the other announcer did not pick up on it.

cato
08-11-2008, 04:43 PM
Pet peeve... <grammar nazi>untracked is semantically incorrect. You mean get back "on track".</grammar nazi>


Pet peeve . . . "untracked" is a common phase, and the previous poster used it correctly. Please explain how it is "semantically incorrect". You might as well take issue when someone calls Nate James a bad I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.. No one thinks he is actually a misbehaving donkey.

hc5duke
08-11-2008, 05:10 PM
Pet peeve . . . "untracked" is a common phase, and the previous poster used it correctly. Please explain how it is "semantically incorrect". You might as well take issue when someone calls Nate James a bad I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.. No one thinks he is actually a misbehaving donkey.

"Bad I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." is a common phrase. "To get untracked" is a common mistake/malapropism/egg-corn (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002148.html), where the correct version "to get (back) on track" has been changed, much like "irregardless." Sorry to hijack, I don't want this to turn into another discussion of "could/couldn't care less"

cato
08-11-2008, 05:25 PM
"Bad I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." is a common phrase. "To get untracked" is a common mistake/malapropism/egg-corn (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002148.html), where the correct version "to get (back) on track" has been changed, much like "irregardless." Sorry to hijack, I don't want this to turn into another discussion of "could/couldn't care less"

Unless you missed it, "untracked" is a common phrase as well. Yesterday's "malapropism" is today's colloquialism. Language evolves, and in this case, the usage has become more common in the three years since the date of the blog post you linked. Either way, I'd say the usage was semantically correct, since there is a commonly understood definition to the phrase, and the poster used the phase in accordance with that commonly understood definition.

SilkyJ
08-11-2008, 05:41 PM
Unless you missed it, "untracked" is a common phrase as well. Yesterday's "malapropism" is today's colloquialism. Language evolves, and in this case, the usage has become more common in the three years since the date of the blog post you linked. Either way, I'd say the usage was semantically correct, since there is a commonly understood definition to the phrase, and the poster used the phase in accordance with that commonly understood definition.

you're semantically correct.

The phrase to me has always been "on track." "Untracked" means the exact opposite, and is just intuitively wrong.

On a related note, the beginning of football seasons means bball season is almost here and months of inane posting will finally beget...well...more months of inane posting. But at least it will involve our team playing basketball.

sagegrouse
08-11-2008, 05:43 PM
Unless you missed it, "untracked" is a common phrase as well. Yesterday's "malapropism" is today's colloquialism. Language evolves, and in this case, the usage has become more common in the three years since the date of the blog post you linked. Either way, I'd say the usage was semantically correct, since there is a commonly understood definition to the phrase, and the poster used the phase in accordance with that commonly understood definition.

Whether or not "untracked" is properly used in this situation, I thought you meant to write "get back on track," which would be appropriate in meaning the return of Melo to a high level of play.

sagegrouse

roywhite
08-11-2008, 05:53 PM
Whether or not "untracked" is properly used in this situation, I thought you meant to write "get back on track," which would be appropriate in meaning the return of Melo to a high level of play.

sagegrouse

Thanks for the lesson in semantics, guys.

Did I mention I'd like to see Carmelo hit a few shots? :)

hc5duke
08-11-2008, 05:59 PM
Unless you missed it, "untracked" is a common phrase as well. Yesterday's "malapropism" is today's colloquialism. Language evolves, and in this case, the usage has become more common in the three years since the date of the blog post you linked.
Just because a lot of people are using the term doesn't make it correct. See: irregardless, than/then, alot/a lot, awhile/a while, etc..


Either way, I'd say the usage was semantically correct, since there is a commonly understood definition to the phrase, and the poster used the phase in accordance with that commonly understood definition.

I said it's semantically incorrect because, as it stands, the sentence means the poster would want to see Carmelo Anthony become "untracked", whereas he presumably intended to say he wants to see Carmelo get back on track. The sentence is grammatically correct, syntactically correct, but didn't convey the intended meaning - therefore, semantically incorrect.

Again I apologize for the detour of the thread. I didn't mean to single out roywhite, and as cato pointed out, it's a common mistake.

elvis14
08-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Two thoughts. First, put me in the camp that doesn't really like the use of "untracked" today, yesterday or tomorrow (sorry for even adding to that part of this thread). Also, you count me as a guy that doesn't really feel the need to see CA get back on track. He is probably my least favorite person on the team and as deep as we are, I'd enjoy the games more if he was sitting and guys I enjoy watching were playing. Of course, the clunker in that is the implied...as long as we are winning. If getting CA going is the difference between winning and losing, by all means get that young stud back on track!

I had an odd thought watching yesterday's game. Aside from a little more size, the one thing I thought the team could really use is a spot up 3 point shooter. I said to my wife "I know this is going to sound crazy but this team could really use JJ Redick....or someone like him that can really drain the 3 all day". We have so many scorers, we could use a shooter (and yes, I realize that several of our scorers can really shoot as well). I worry that teams are going to pack the lane and make us shoot 3's. Then, like Duke, we'll have a night where we are off from behind the arc and get upset.

DukeUsul
08-11-2008, 06:19 PM
Just because a lot of people are using the term doesn't make it correct. See: irregardless, than/then, alot/a lot, awhile/a while, etc..



Better watch out, or throaty is gonna swoop in and rain down some descriptive vs. proscriptive linguistics arguments on you.

Irregardless of the "untracked" discussion, I'd like to see everyone on the team play well. Including Melo.

Bob Green
08-11-2008, 06:52 PM
They look like a really small team, so I guess we will see an awful lot of zone.

I propose more minutes for Michael Redd.

CrazyCat
08-11-2008, 07:30 PM
Wow, this is the only place I know that actually combines a comprehensive lesson on the english language and phrases, then throw in a stimulated discussion on basketball all in the same thread. Very cool.. I have to also admit that it would have been nice to see J.J on the USA team thowing in some sweat 3 pointers. I think the game against Angola will be a no brainer for us, but it is still nice to see the reception our team is getting.

SilkyJ
08-12-2008, 02:59 AM
i'm can't find the game on the west coast! (SF) it says its supposed to be on USA, but its not!

Bob Green
08-12-2008, 03:04 AM
The game doesn't start until 8:00 am EDT or 8 pm Beijing time.

SilkyJ
08-12-2008, 03:12 AM
The game doesn't start until 8:00 am EDT or 8 pm Beijing time.

Ah yes, our man on the ground (almost) :) Thank you sir.

FYI for anyone on the west coast, or at least in SF, its on USA (channel 42 regular, 738 HD) live at 5am, I think:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=PT/day=4/time=240/tv.html

SOMEBODY, had me a lil confused and I was kinda freaking out.



What's game time (EST)?


Tuesday, Aug 12

US v Angola

2:30 a.m. Live (NBC)

8:00 a.m. Replay (USA)

Bob Green
08-12-2008, 03:19 AM
I was also confused by a combination of Indoor66's post and the AFN sports schedule that both reflected a 3:30 pm Tokyo time start. I checked the Official Beijing Olympics site for the right start time:


http://en.beijing2008.cn/

roywhite
08-12-2008, 06:39 AM
Just awoke to a surprising game---China vs Spain going into overtime!

Indoor66
08-12-2008, 07:59 AM
I was also confused by a combination of Indoor66's post and the AFN sports schedule that both reflected a 3:30 pm Tokyo time start. I checked the Official Beijing Olympics site for the right start time:


http://en.beijing2008.cn/

Sorry for the wrong info re tv times. I got my info from the NBC site schedule I printed out before the games began. :o

BlueintheFace
08-12-2008, 08:33 AM
Sloppy Sloppy Sloppy... This is just ugly so far. Are there any teams that shoot poorly from three on us.... and the turnovers, UGH. I hope the second half is better.

Bob Green
08-12-2008, 08:46 AM
Sorry for the wrong info re tv times. I got my info from the NBC site schedule I printed out before the games began. :o

No problem.

Lavabe
08-12-2008, 09:10 AM
Sloppy Sloppy Sloppy... This is just ugly so far. Are there any teams that shoot poorly from three on us.... and the turnovers, UGH. I hope the second half is better.

2nd half beginning is on & off good play from the US. The off part is the US leaving the Angolans wide open for threes. The US free throw percentage in the 2nd half is very spotty.

I like the small US lineup: Wade, Paul, Williams, Bosh, James. Some nice spurts.

Cheers,
Lavabe

PumpkinFunk
08-12-2008, 09:27 AM
This game is way too sloppy. We should be playing way better.

I'm really scared that Spain is going to hurt us if we're playing like this against them.

Gunnar Kaufman
08-12-2008, 09:30 AM
Score?

Duke4Ever32
08-12-2008, 09:34 AM
Score?

93-65, US leads. 3 minutes left in the game.

ETA: 97-76, Final Score.

bigj4194
08-12-2008, 09:40 AM
i realize that we don't have are A team out there right now, but even still we are playing way to sloppy. 76-97 FINAL...I would have expected to us to be doing better. one other observation we seemed to foul a lot more than angola did...oh well...we got the W. Good Job Coach K and the US!

roywhite
08-12-2008, 09:52 AM
US did not shoot well from outside. 5-21 as a team on 3-pt FG and Kobe was 0-8 (ESPN preliminary boxscore). That needs to improve.

studdlee10
08-12-2008, 09:57 AM
Off performance by our team. They lacked energy, crispness. No need to over analyze, they'll play up to the competition when they play Greece and Spain.

Why is everybody so afraid of Spain? They BARELY beat China, who is not a good team. We need to be very afraid of Greece. They play the style of basketball we struggle with and are very hot right now.

BlueintheFace
08-12-2008, 10:10 AM
I think there are a few stories developing now that two games are done--

1) First and Foremost, why can't we hit a three pointer? I mean, come on!! I never thought I'd say this, but I miss Mike Miller right now. After 2 games we have hit 12 of 45 three pointers.

2) Melo and Kobe. Kobe is 10/27 after two games while Melo is... well is he even on the team? He's been invisible when he has been in the game which might be why he isn't in a whole lot. Though Kobe has ben going cold of late, at least he is taking the exact shots K wants him to take. His shots have primarily been taken around the rim and from three. Collins made a great point about how he is used to the ball in his hands and almost never catches and shoots. It sounds like a silly distinction, but those of us who have played know how different the two are. Still, he has been a significant presence on the defensive end, unlike Melo. Here's hoping Melo picks it up and Kobe finds his touch.

3) Defending the three... We don't. Rotation has been slow after pick-n-rolls and passing lane gambles. Both teams have had many many open three opportunities. I shudder when I think about Greece or Argentina getting that many perfect looks.

4) It is clear that D-wade and Lebron are keyed in this summer. The great thing about this loaded team is that when you have the best player in the world and your best FIBA player struggling, you still have two players of this caliber. Imagine if Pau Gasol and Jose Calderon started to stink up the place. Spain would really struggle.

5) Going small- It is becoming increasingly obvious that the US is much more effective without two of the starters- Dwight Howard and Jason Kidd. Both will play very important roles against several teams in this tourney (Howard against Germany/ Spain, Kidd in knockout play), but we play much better Defense and Offense with a lineup that includes Williams or Paul and Bosh. Bosh has really stood out so far this summer with his energy and smart play. Williams and Paul simply add another dimension to the point position. Kidd will not drive the lane or shoot the three and is not that much of a better passer. Plus, the two young guns are better on pressuring the ball. Kidd's leadership and experience will be key in knockout play when the US needs a good start, but the team is simply less effective on both ends of the floor with him in.

So far I think the most effective lineup for both Defense and Offense has actually been Williams/Paul, Kobe, D-Wade, Lebron, and Bosh.


Why is everybody so afraid of Spain? They BARELY beat China, who is not a good team. We need to be very afraid of Greece. They play the style of basketball we struggle with and are very hot right now.

I completely agree here!

jacone21
08-12-2008, 10:12 AM
Why is everybody so afraid of Spain? They BARELY beat China, who is not a good team. We need to be very afraid of Greece. They play the style of basketball we struggle with and are very hot right now.

Except that Spain beat Greece by 15.


The USA team definitely let up against Angola. When they turned up the intensity, they just dominated defensively. But when they got up by 30 they backed off again. It's like they do just enough to keep a good lead. I guess that's understandable, but can lead to bad habits. Shooting has to get better, and I believe it will. They'll come out on fire one of these games and win by 50.

BlueintheFace
08-12-2008, 10:35 AM
Except that Spain beat Greece by 15.

It is all about match-ups. Spain undoubtedly has the most individual talent, but they play like the US does. They will play man-to-man (though theirs will sag a few feet) against us, and rely on making and exploiting matchup advantages on offense.

Greece will throw zones and junk defenses at us (which we have struggled with). They will also run the pick and roll to perfection (which we struggle defending). Finally, they have a bevy of spot up three point shooters to make open shots from distance (which we tend to give away pretty easily). Finally, they have beaten us before so the intimidation factor won't play as large a roll there.

The best way to describe it is-- Spain speaks the language of international basketball fluently (zones, back screens, etc...) because their players have played in these systems most of their life, but they speak the same language as the Americans in terms of execution (matchup exploitation, outside-in emphasis, etc..). They know both languages pretty well, but prefer to speak NBA on the court. Because they KNOW both, they are able to beat all the European teams (like Greece). Unfortunately, we don't know International Basketball that well. All we know is "Hello", "Goodbye", and "Where's the toilet?" Therefore, we can get really confused and turned around against Greece who is arguably the best at the "International style," while we should be able to handle the Spaniards. They are speaking our language, but we speak it much better.

That was a terrible analogy, but hopefully I conveyed my point somewhat.

juise
08-12-2008, 03:18 PM
The full game (http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=0811_hd_swb_hl_l0194&channelcode=sportsw) is available on the NBC site and the best part: no commentary! Lebron's volleyball block is right at the 40:00 mark in the video.

I don't have much to add in terms of critique of the US team's play. It's been obvious since the exhibitions that the team's clear advantage is in transition and scoring off of steals (K really has them working the passing lanes). It will be interesting to see how that works against teams that have more professionals playing at the guard/wing spots.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-12-2008, 03:54 PM
One thing that really bothers me is when Kobe (or anyone) comes off his man outside to double the post. I've noticed our opponents ready for this as they quickly kick back out and around if necessary to find the wide open 3. If our guards would stay home and not cheat down, we'd avoid a lot of open 3's by opponents. Frustrating!

Billy Dat
08-12-2008, 05:54 PM
One thing that really bothers me is when Kobe (or anyone) comes off his man outside to double the post. I've noticed our opponents ready for this as they quickly kick back out and around if necessary to find the wide open 3. If our guards would stay home and not cheat down, we'd avoid a lot of open 3's by opponents. Frustrating!

This was something I noticed today, too. I think our guards are too quick to double team when the ball moves inside. Granted, we are going for strips and such, but it does lead to a number of open 3s where the shooter is "in rhythm" (one of the phrases being battered to death). I do think we should allow our bigs to defend one on one when the ball moves inside to see what happens. Considering that FIBA ball doesn't feature traditional post play, I am guessing that these big men lack traditional post moves (sweeping hook shots aside) and are usually looking for the kick out.

Beating the "in rhythm" concept some more...we don't get a lot of IR 3s. I haven't charted these games or anything like that, but I am guessing that the lack of IR 3s could be because when we throw the ball inside or beat the guards off the dribble, we usually go for that high percentage 2 rather then kick it out for a 3. I notice that the rest of the world will often pass up a potential 6 foot and in shot in favor of the kick-out. So, our foes would rather take an IR 3 then a mid range jumper or slashing lay-up where we are the opposite....maybe?

BlueintheFace
08-12-2008, 05:58 PM
This was something I noticed today, too. I think our guards are too quick to double team when the ball moves inside. Granted, we are going for strips and such, but it does lead to a number of open 3s where the shooter is "in rhythm" (one of the phrases being battered to death). I do think we should allow our bigs to defend one on one when the ball moves inside to see what happens. Considering that FIBA ball doesn't feature traditional post play, I am guessing that these big men lack traditional post moves (sweeping hook shots aside) and are usually looking for the kick out.

Beating the "in rhythm" concept some more...we don't get a lot of IR 3s. I haven't charted these games or anything like that, but I am guessing that the lack of IR 3s could be because when we throw the ball inside or beat the guards off the dribble, we usually go for that high percentage 2 rather then kick it out for a 3. I notice that the rest of the world will often pass up a potential 6 foot and in shot in favor of the kick-out. So, our foes would rather take an IR 3 then a mid range jumper or slashing lay-up where we are the opposite....maybe?

I definitely agree with this sentiment for games against Angola and China, but just wait until Germany marches out their full roster of 7 footers. haha.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-12-2008, 07:20 PM
I definitely agree with this sentiment for games against Angola and China, but just wait until Germany marches out their full roster of 7 footers. haha.

I cannot wait to see what kind of greeting Team USA has for Kaman.

SilkyJ
08-13-2008, 12:21 PM
I didnt watch the USA game until last night on DVR when I got home from work so I'm just now reading all the posts in the thread and I am really kinda surprised to see no mention of Doug Collins CONSTANTLY talking about the '72 olympics and the soviets.

I think doug collins is a great man and a great announcer, but is no else annoyed that he won't stop talking about the one time he got to play in the olympics??

Carlos
08-13-2008, 12:26 PM
Wait.... Doug Collins played on the '72 Olympics and played the Soviet Union? I hadn't heard any mention of this.

Next you're going to try and tell me that the US lost that game or that there was some sort of controversy.

cato
08-13-2008, 12:28 PM
I didnt watch the USA game until last night on DVR when I got home from work so I'm just now reading all the posts in the thread and I am really kinda surprised to see no mention of Doug Collins CONSTANTLY talking about the '72 olympics and the soviets.

I think doug collins is a great man and a great announcer, but is no else annoyed that he won't stop talking about the one time he got to play in the olympics??

Hopefully he'll get untracked during the Greece game.

wilson
08-13-2008, 02:15 PM
It is all about match-ups. Spain undoubtedly has the most individual talent, but they play like the US does. They will play man-to-man (though theirs will sag a few feet) against us, and rely on making and exploiting matchup advantages on offense.

Greece will throw zones and junk defenses at us (which we have struggled with). They will also run the pick and roll to perfection (which we struggle defending). Finally, they have a bevy of spot up three point shooters to make open shots from distance (which we tend to give away pretty easily). Finally, they have beaten us before so the intimidation factor won't play as large a roll there.

The best way to describe it is-- Spain speaks the language of international basketball fluently (zones, back screens, etc...) because their players have played in these systems most of their life, but they speak the same language as the Americans in terms of execution (matchup exploitation, outside-in emphasis, etc..). They know both languages pretty well, but prefer to speak NBA on the court. Because they KNOW both, they are able to beat all the European teams (like Greece). Unfortunately, we don't know International Basketball that well. All we know is "Hello", "Goodbye", and "Where's the toilet?" Therefore, we can get really confused and turned around against Greece who is arguably the best at the "International style," while we should be able to handle the Spaniards. They are speaking our language, but we speak it much better.

That was a terrible analogy, but hopefully I conveyed my point somewhat.

I actually thought this was quite a good analogy. I also agree with your assessment of the two teams. Something else that has come to mind is that the leading Spaniards (Gasol, Delfino, et al) are rather familiar to Team USA, because they play in the NBA. Greece doesn't have any NBA regulars, and that lack of familiarity seems to pretty clearly affect our boys at times.