Let me cut you off at the pass (G-Town/Vandy)

[feldspar]

It was NOT a travel. Greg Gumbel and Seth Davis just wasted whatever credibility they gained with me last night with that drivel at the end of the game.

Classic up and under move. Clutch shot. Great win.

[_Gary]

Interesting, because after watching it a few times I came away thinking it wasn't a travel, too. Looked like he really hadn't re-established enough after loosing the ball to say definitely that his right foot was his pivot foot. I thought it was a solid up-and-under move as well. It was so bang-bang I would have been much more upset had they called that a travel.

Gary

[Fish80]

Look at the replay. After he lost his dribble, he moved all his feet several times, some type of dance move shuffle. He hit a tough shot, but traveled a few times over before the ball left his hands.

[Tommac]

Could you please explain. To my eye, it looked like the Georgetown player changed his pivot foot.

[feldspar]

I did look at it. Several times.

He established his pivot foot. He stayed with that pivot foot, picked it up and did not put it back down before he relased the ball.

Completely legal. Read the rule book.

[tbyers11]

It was NOT a travel. Greg Gumbel and Seth Davis just wasted whatever credibility they gained with me last night with that drivel at the end of the game.

Classic up and under move. Clutch shot. Great win.

I'm not sure what you came where watching, but in a classic up-and-under move the player fakes and steps through maintaining the same pivot foot. Green turned to the right and up-faked using his right foot as his pivot then shot off of his left foot while his right foot came off the ground. Looked like a travel to me.

[evrdukie]

Obvious travel.

[feldspar]

You guys are so wrong it's sad.

NCAA Rule 4-4-a:

Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court,
before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Yeah, that was definitely a travel. You can't switch pivot feet.

[feldspar]

Yeah, that was definitely a travel. You can't switch pivot feet.

Again, NCAA Rule 4-4-a.

[77devil]

Again, NCAA Rule 4-4-a.

Quoting the rule in this instance is irrelevant. Green switched his pivot foot and thus it touched the floor again. It was a travel.

[tbyers11]

You guys are so wrong it's sad.

NCAA Rule 4-4-a:

Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court,
before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;

I don't know the rulebook front to back but doesn't this apply to a player lifting his pivot foot in the act of jumping off of it. The reason Green's pivot foot doesn't hit the ground before he releases the shot is because he switched his pivot foot to his left foot.

[feldspar]

Quoting the rule in this instance is irrelevant. Green switched his pivot foot and thus it touched the floor again. It was a travel.

He did NOT switch his pivot foot.

Rule 4-48-1

A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball steps once
or more than once in any direction with the same foot, while the other foot,
called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the playing court.

[dukie8]

You guys are so wrong it's sad.

NCAA Rule 4-4-a:

Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court,
before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;

all that rule says is that you can shoot a jump shot after picking up your dribble (otherwise you wouldn't be able to jump to shoot the ball after picking up your dribble). it DOESN'T say that you can move BOTH of your feet after picking up your dribble.

[feldspar]

all that rule says is that you can shoot a jump shot after picking up your dribble (otherwise you wouldn't be able to jump to shoot the ball after picking up your dribble). it DOESN'T say that you can move BOTH of your feet after picking up your dribble.

No, what that rule says is that you can pick up your pivot foot as long as you do not return it back to the floor before releasing the ball.

This isn't even close to a travel.

[evrdukie]

It seemed like an obvious walk. Hard to call, I guess, but not much doubt about it.

[FireOgilvie]

I am interested in this debate... I want a definitive answer. I personally thought it was a travel when I first saw it and after seeing the replays. Does someone with extensive (non-amateur) basketball playing/refereeing experience know for sure?

[dukie8]

No, what that rule says is that you can pick up your pivot foot as long as you do not return it back to the floor before releasing the ball.

This isn't even close to a travel.

i think that we are saying the same thing. once you establish your pivot foot, you can lift it but you have to get rid of the ball before you come down (either by shooting it, passing it or turning it over). i have to see the replay again, which i am sure cbs will playing nonstop at halftime of these games.

[_Gary]

Yea, you guys are acting like you think a player can't lift their pivot foot before shooting. You can and he did (I guess I'll concede it was his pivot foot). The only thing that makes it look funny is that he put the left foot down just before lifting his pivot foot then jumped. Normally on those up and unders you end up lifting off both feet at the same time. He didn't so folks think he changed his pivot foot, but I don't think he did because he never brought the right foot down before shooting. Just looked a little unorthodox. But in the strict sense I don't believe it was a travel.

Gary

[feldspar]

i think that we are saying the same thing. once you establish your pivot foot, you can lift it but you have to get rid of the ball before you come down (either by shooting it, passing it or turning it over). i have to see the replay again, which i am sure cbs will playing nonstop at halftime of these games.

He had his left foot established as the pivot. He put his right foot down (legal), lifted his pivot foot (legal) and jumped off his right foot (legal).

Easy call. No travel. I'm anxious for calltheobvious to come along and help me out because I don't know how to better explain it.

[JJweMISSu]

It was definatley a travel. He picked his pivot foot up and then used the other foot as a pivot to launch him self up into the air. TRAVEL!

[mapei]

In any event, the two fouls called on Georgetown prior to the final shot were highly questionable IMO. Incidental contact that did not disadvantage the Vandy players. Also at least one of the charges called on the Hoyas was wrong because the defender hadn't established position.

The call we remember is the one at the very end, but lots of calls were missed both ways in this game. Refs are human.

[tbyers11]

He had his left foot established as the pivot. He put his right foot down (legal), lifted his pivot foot (legal) and jumped off his right foot (legal).

Easy call. No travel. I'm anxious for calltheobvious to come along and help me out because I don't know how to better explain it.

I wish you could explain this to me with video replay. I just watched the play again and I thought his right foot was his pivot foot. If his left was his pivot foot as you said and he jumped off of his right, how come he actually jumped off his left foot when releasing the shot?

[feldspar]

I wish you could explain this to me with video replay. I just watched the play again and I thought his right foot was his pivot foot. If his left was his pivot foot as you said and he jumped off of his right, how come he actually jumped off his left foot when releasing the shot?

Sorry. Got my feet mixed up in my head as I was typing. Switch it around.

Once again, Kellogg and Seth make complete fools of themselves, saying you can't lift your pivot foot off the floor before releasing the ball.

They are flat wrong, and it's embarrasing.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I'm confused. This happens like a dozen times every game. You're allowed to jump off of the foot that is not your pivot foot...you just can't put your pivot foot back down. I don't understand at all why there's even a discussion over this. To me, there's no way that's a travel.

[_Gary]

His right foot was indeed his pivot foot. Most of these commentators, that should know the game better than me, obviously don't. They keep saying the minute he lifted his pivot foot he should have been whistled for traveling. THAT'S DEAD, DEAD, WRONG!!!! I don't know why these guys can't understand a simple truth. YOU CAN LIFT YOUR PIVOT FOOT, JUST SO LONG AS YOU SHOOT THE BALL BEFORE THAT FOOT HITS THE GROUND. Real simple. He made an up and under move and shot the ball before his pivot foot hit the ground again. You're pivot foot isn't glued to the ground. You can jump off it, and in rare instances it may not be the last foot on the ground. The player stepped through (legal), lifted his pivot foot first (legal) while planting is off foot (legal) and then as his pivot foot was in the air (legal) he shot the ball. He never "changed" his pivot foot because his initial pivot foot (that right foot we've been talking about) never came back down to the ground before the ball left his hand. If it had, then he would have been guilty of changing pivot foots and therefore traveling. Didn't happen that way. Right call by the official.

Gary

[dockfan]

He had his left foot established as the pivot. He put his right foot down (legal), lifted his pivot foot (legal) and jumped off his right foot (legal).

Easy call. No travel. I'm anxious for calltheobvious to come along and help me out because I don't know how to better explain it.

It's actually not an easy call. I see what you are trying to explain, Feldspar. But what Green did is not the same as a "classic up-and-under move." In the up-and-under, the pivot foot (the plant foot) is lifted as the player jumps toward the basket in one motion. The player faces the basket and there is a distinct, uninterrupted shooting motion.

Green, on the other hand, lifted his pivot foot with his back to the basket, turned his body while pivoting on his other foot, and then went up for the shot. It was not a fluid shooting motion.

Though I believe you can argue it either way by the letter of the NCAA rules, I'm pretty sure that the majority of referees would interpret those rules to conclude that Jeff Green traveled.

[bjornolf]

I watched it in slow motion on my TiVo. The player establishes his right foot as his pivot foot by swinging his left foot around. He then lifts his right foot about two inches off the floor and puts it back down about three inches forward. THEN he lifts his right foot, jumps off the left, and shoots. They are referring to the first lift and reset of the pivot foot before the shot, NOT the second lift leading to the shot. You can see it better in the far off angle from midcourt. Just as his right foot becomes visible again as the other GT crosses between him and the camera, his pivot foot just barely lifts, moves, and plants again. THAT'S the travel.

[feldspar]

It's actually not an easy call. I see what you are trying to explain, Feldspar. But what Green did is not the same as a "classic up-and-under move." In the up-and-under, the pivot foot (the plant foot) is lifted as the player jumps toward the basket in one motion. The player faces the basket and there is a distinct, uninterrupted shooting motion.

Green, on the other hand, lifted his pivot foot with his back to the basket, turned his body while pivoting on his other foot, and then went up for the shot. It was not a fluid shooting motion.

Though I believe you can argue it either way by the letter of the NCAA rules, I'm pretty sure that the majority of referees would interpret those rules to include that Jeff Green traveled.

Nowhere in the rules regarding traveling or pivot foot will you find the words "fluid shooting motion." It makes no difference.

[feldspar]

Though I believe you can argue it either way by the letter of the NCAA rules, I'm pretty sure that the majority of referees would interpret those rules to conclude that Jeff Green traveled.

I've been chatting tonight with a couple of buddies of mine who are all D-I officials, one of whom calls Big-10 games.

They are just as flabbergasted as I am how anyone who knows and understands the rules of basketball could think this is a travel.

Then, we concluded that the reason must be that most people do not know and understand the rules of basketball.

[BoC]

When things like this come up, I always check Officiating.com; as its name implies, it's where officials gathers to talk about their craft.

This thread (http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=33035)is where they discuss this particular play.

[YmoBeThere]

He had his left foot established as the pivot. He put his right foot down (legal), lifted his pivot foot (legal) and jumped off his right foot (legal).

Easy call. No travel. I'm anxious for calltheobvious to come along and help me out because I don't know how to better explain it.

I think you have his feet mixed up. He pivoted around on his right foot, the left foot landed on the ground at approximately the same time as he lifted his right(the pivot) and then he jumped off his left foot...not sure if this changes anything. Unless I am misunderstanding which is the pivot foot.

[feldspar]

I think you have his feet mixed up. He pivoted around on his right foot, the left foot landed on the ground at approximately the same time as he lifted his right(the pivot) and then he jumped off his left foot...not sure if this changes anything but I do think you have his feet mixed up.

I did. See earlier.

[Delaware]

If Green had simply jumped off his right foot (which had been established as the pivot), then it is no travel. I think the CBS guys believed he planted his left foot and then lifted the right, which would be a change of pivot foot. I could not tell even from the replay whether the left foot was established before he shot.

[YmoBeThere]

I did. See earlier.

I missed that post...

[dockfan]

Nowhere in the rules regarding traveling or pivot foot will you find the words "fluid shooting motion." It makes no difference.

I obviously haven't reviewed the exact text of the NCAA rules as closely as you have, but what Green did is the equivalent of this:

A player executes the classic up-and-under (left foot is pivot), steps through his defender with the right, lifts his left/pivot foot, and rather than going straight up off his right foot to jump and shoot, he turns his body on his right foot, to go up with the shot at a completely different angle. It's a different situation, thus a tougher call.

If Jeff Green executed the same footwork in the backcourt, would the referees let that go?

[By the way, I think this whole discussion is kind of a moot point, because I really think Green's original pivot foot did slide/shuffle a bit- that is definitely the easier call]

[feldspar]

I think the CBS guys believed he planted his left foot and then lifted the right, which would be a change of pivot foot.

No, no it wouldn't.

This is where you, Greg Gumble, Clark Kellogg and Seth Davis are getting tripped up.

That is NOT switching pivot feet, and lifting your pivot foot before shooting is NOT a travel.

[YmoBeThere]

should they have called a timeout with 2.5 seconds to go? I mean we all know one example where that worked out(haha)!

[feldspar]

I obviously haven't reviewed the exact text of the NCAA rules as closely as you have, but what Green did is the equivalent of this:

A player executes the classic up-and-under (left foot is pivot), steps through his defender with the right, lifts his left/pivot foot, and rather than going straight up off his right foot to jump and shoot, he turns his body on his right foot, to go up with the shot at a completely different angle. It's a different situation, thus a tougher call.

If Jeff Green executed the same footwork in the backcourt, would the referees let that go?

[By the way, I think this whole discussion is kind of a moot point, because I really think Green's original pivot foot did slide/shuffle a bit- that is definitely the easier call]


Ok, this is the last time I'm gonna try and explain it.

These hypotheticals you keep creating are only confusing you. This is all you need to know:

1. Just because a player puts his non-pivot foot down on the floor, this does not mean he has switched his pivot foot.

and

2. If a player lifts his pivot foot off the floor, it is not a travel unless he returns it to the floor before he releases the ball.

Study, and restudy, the replay after understanding those two rules, and you will see why it is not a travel.

[Delaware]

I said if he lifted his foot and shot it would NOT have been a travel.

[bjornolf]

Ok, this is the last time I'm gonna try and explain it.

2. If a player lifts his pivot foot off the floor, it is not a travel unless he returns it to the floor before he releases the ball.

Study, and restudy, the replay after understanding those two rules, and you will see why it is not a travel.

Reread my post again. In slo-mo on TiVO, just as his right, pivot foot becomes visible again in the far off replay (his teammate passes between him and the camera) he lifts it, moves it forward a few inches, and replants it. THEN he lifts off with the left foot and shoots. So he DOES lift his pivot foot and return it to the floor, it's just about one second before the part to which you're referring.

[dockfan]

Ok, this is the last time I'm gonna try and explain it.

These hypotheticals you keep creating are only confusing you. This is all you need to know:

1. Just because a player puts his non-pivot foot down on the floor, this does not mean he has switched his pivot foot.

and

2. If a player lifts his pivot foot off the floor, it is not a travel unless he returns it to the floor before he releases the ball.

Study, and restudy, the replay after understanding those two rules, and you will see why it is not a travel.

I appreciate your noble efforts to try to teach me. But all I'm saying is that this situation is not so clear-cut. The rule (as I understand it) requires a pass or shot somewhat contemporaneously with the lifting of the pivot foot. If a player does not attempt a shot or a pass (think of lifting your pivot foot against the press, but no pass), I'm pretty sure the referees call that a travel. Otherwise, you could lift your pivot foot and balance on the other foot for up to five seconds- that seems odd.

I'm just saying that Green's shot is somewhere in between - it is a judgment call. If your referee buddies disagree, then that is within their judgment.

Sorry for the hypotheticals, but I think that is a helpful way to learn and analyze these issues. I'll go back to studying now.

[feldspar]

I know USC is throwing this game away, but stay tuned.

CBS is about to issue a correction on their blatant stupidity on that travel call.

[bjornolf]

I know USC is throwing this game away, but stay tuned.

CBS is about to issue a correction on their blatant stupidity on that travel call.

CBS's "correction" just showed what I said in my last two posts that everyone has so conveniently ignored.

Thanks. Just cause I went away for a year doesn't mean I got stupid.

[feldspar]

Reread my post again. In slo-mo on TiVO, just as his right, pivot foot becomes visible again in the far off replay (his teammate passes between him and the camera) he lifts it, moves it forward a few inches, and replants it. THEN he lifts off with the left foot and shoots. So he DOES lift his pivot foot and return it to the floor, it's just about one second before the part to which you're referring.

You're right!

CBS slowed it down and zoomed in, and he picked up his foot and replants it.

EXTREMELY tough call, though, for an official to make. We (and CBS) have the benefit of slow-mo and zoom on the replay. Hard for even the most experienced official to see that.

As it stands, though, Clark, Seth and Greg are still wrong with regards to their rule interpretations.

[feldspar]

CBS's "correction" just showed what I said in my last two posts that everyone has so conveniently ignored.

Thanks. Just cause I went away for a year doesn't mean I got stupid.

Grow up, bjorn. I wasn't ignoring you. I was waiting for a zoomed in, slow-mo replay. I don't have the benefit of having TiVo. It's a completely different type of travel than CBS was describing.

You're right. I never said you were wrong. My earlier points still stand.

[bjornolf]

Posted my angry diatribe a moment to soon. Sorry, Feldspar.

[bjornolf]

we must be posting at EXACTLY the same moment.

[feldspar]

No worries. Good call.

[bjornolf]

Hey feldspar... quick question for you, or for any of you other guys that know more about basketball than I do... USC/UNC, the moving screen call at the end followed by the technical. The commentator kept saying it was an obvious reach. The player's hands were clasped at his waist. Where's the reach? What am I missing?

Thanks.

[feldspar]

Hey feldspar... quick question for you, or for any of you other guys that know more about basketball than I do... USC/UNC, the moving screen call at the end followed by the technical. The commentator kept saying it was an obvious reach. The player's hands were clasped at his waist. Where's the reach? What am I missing?

Thanks.

Sorry. Wish I could help but I changed the channel in disgust when Floyd got the T. Bonehead coaching move of the year.

[_Gary]

Hey feldspar... quick question for you, or for any of you other guys that know more about basketball than I do... USC/UNC, the moving screen call at the end followed by the technical. The commentator kept saying it was an obvious reach. The player's hands were clasped at his waist. Where's the reach? What am I missing?

Thanks.

You're not missing anything. The commentator was dead wrong to call it an obvious foul/reach. It was neither of those things. I'm not going to say it couldn't have been called a foul on the screen, but it was far from obvious. And I wouldn't have called a foul at that point. He wasn't moving and he didn't reach out to try and keep the screen strong. His hands were down and clasped.

But hey, it's UNC and the game was on the line. God forbid USC would get a decent call in such a case. We can't have that, now can we?

Gary

[dukie8]

Sorry. Wish I could help but I changed the channel in disgust when Floyd got the T. Bonehead coaching move of the year.


helped them cover the spread too.

[calltheobvious]

To those who might be smirking because Feld wasn't letter-of-the-law right, I wouldn't get too ****y. He was right about Davis and Kellogg and Gumbel makes jerks out of themselves, because their reasoning certainly was not correct.

As for the fact that he did indeed shuffle the pivot puppy, consider how incredibly close that play was. Consider that you needed slow-mo replay to actually find the violation. Consider that the crew doesn't have that benefit. And finally consider, that if one of the officials decides to blow on that play, then he better have been 100% right on every close travel play in his area of coverage the entire flippin night. You can't call every travel in a high-level basketball game, because nobody's eyes or judgment is that good.

Rule of thumb for the guys working at that level? If you have to go to the tape to confirm one way or the other, it doesn't deserve a whistle. The fanboy in all of us hates this sometimes, but it's best for the game.

Lots of people still owe Feldspar an apology.

[feldspar]

helped them cover the spread too.

I told my buddy those were Floyd's betting slips he threw on the floor.

:)

[nicktonyg22]

whether it was a travel or not, ESPN and CBS would be calling it the biggest officiating mishap in history if it had been us rather than Georgetown.

[dukemsu]

You're not missing anything. The commentator was dead wrong to call it an obvious foul/reach. It was neither of those things. I'm not going to say it couldn't have been called a foul on the screen, but it was far from obvious. And I wouldn't have called a foul at that point. He wasn't moving and he didn't reach out to try and keep the screen strong. His hands were down and clasped.

But hey, it's UNC and the game was on the line. God forbid USC would get a decent call in such a case. We can't have that, now can we?

Gary

Just a ridiculous call. No advantage gained. Nantz tried to call Packer on it, but didn't follow up. Carolina would have really had to blow it to lose at that point, but that call was poor. Should have been a no call.

dukemsu

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I'm a UNC fan and I didn't see a foul. Pretty weak call, IMO.

[_Gary]

whether it was a travel or not, ESPN and CBS would be calling it the biggest officiating mishap in history if it had been us rather than Georgetown.

And to add to those thoughts, I'll give you another hypothetical I truly believe would have played out a certain way. Had it been UNC instead of Georgetown no one would have said a thing. No studio second guessing or slow mo replays. :D

[bjornolf]

As for the fact that he did indeed shuffle the pivot puppy, consider how incredibly close that play was. Consider that you needed slow-mo replay to actually find the violation. Consider that the crew doesn't have that benefit. And finally consider, that if one of the officials decides to blow on that play, then he better have been 100% right on every close travel play in his area of coverage the entire flippin night. You can't call every travel in a high-level basketball game, because nobody's eyes or judgment is that good.

Rule of thumb for the guys working at that level? If you have to go to the tape to confirm one way or the other, it doesn't deserve a whistle. The fanboy in all of us hates this sometimes, but it's best for the game.


And I did apologize. But to be honest, I didn't use the slow motion to see the right foot lift and replant. I saw it right away the first time. I only went back and looked at it again later so I could give a blow-by-blow to be accurate in my post. I was pulling for G'Town, and the first words out of my mouth in live action were, "Game's over, he slid his pivot foot!" Followed immediately by, "I can't believe he got away with that." The slow motion was just confirmation for me when I was confused why everyone was arguing. Other than that, I certainly agree with your point about that. However, as I said, I did NOT use slow motion to see it the first time. I guess it helps that I watched it on a 60+ inch screen.

[greybeard]

I'm a big Georgetown fan, and do not think, in the scheme of things, that this is the type of call everybody should be quibbling about, except here, where everybody is interested in the issue for the issue's sake.

Green clearly established his right foot as his pivot foot. He turned towards his right on that foot, moving his left foot several times in that direction, than planted his left foot to the left, and picked up his right foot. It is a walk. If done away from the lane, such a move would be an obvious call.

In the lane, I think such moves often are not called. Let's say you are low and jump out to catch the ball (which McRob never ever did, see the bad back) landing on both feet. You step to the left with your left foot, and then lift the right to hook the ball. I think that that is a walk. If you did the same thing from the guard position it would be called a walk every time--think, you jab step with your right foot; when it is planted, you fake drawing back, and then lift your pivot foot before releasing the ball on the dribble. You get called for a walk, everytime. Inside, I always thought it a righteous move. Now, I don't think so, but fortunately, I don't play no more.

[feldspar]

I'm a big Georgetown fan, and do not think, in the scheme of things, that this is the type of call everybody should be quibbling about, except here, where everybody is interested in the issue for the issue's sake.

Green clearly established his right foot as his pivot foot. He turned towards his right on that foot, moving his left foot several times in that direction, than planted his left foot to the left, and picked up his right foot. It is a walk. If done away from the lane, such a move would be an obvious call.

In the lane, I think such moves often are not called. Let's say you are low and jump out to catch the ball (which McRob never ever did, see the bad back) landing on both feet. You step to the left with your left foot, and then lift the right to hook the ball. I think that that is a walk. If you did the same thing from the guard position it would be called a walk every time--think, you jab step with your right foot; when it is planted, you fake drawing back, and then lift your pivot foot before releasing the ball on the dribble. You get called for a walk, everytime. Inside, I always thought it a righteous move. Now, I don't think so, but fortunately, I don't play no more.

Did you even bother to read the whole thread?

Oh, wait, nevermind. It's pretty clear that you didn't.

[dukie8]

I'm a big Georgetown fan, and do not think, in the scheme of things, that this is the type of call everybody should be quibbling about, except here, where everybody is interested in the issue for the issue's sake.

Green clearly established his right foot as his pivot foot. He turned towards his right on that foot, moving his left foot several times in that direction, than planted his left foot to the left, and picked up his right foot. It is a walk. If done away from the lane, such a move would be an obvious call.

In the lane, I think such moves often are not called. Let's say you are low and jump out to catch the ball (which McRob never ever did, see the bad back) landing on both feet. You step to the left with your left foot, and then lift the right to hook the ball. I think that that is a walk. If you did the same thing from the guard position it would be called a walk every time--think, you jab step with your right foot; when it is planted, you fake drawing back, and then lift your pivot foot before releasing the ball on the dribble. You get called for a walk, everytime. Inside, I always thought it a righteous move. Now, I don't think so, but fortunately, I don't play no more.

huh? there are different rules for when the player is in the lane?

[jipops]

Whatever the rule is, whatever way it can be interpreted... regardless...

this move is 100% legal if performed in the Dean E Smith Center with pansy blue uni's.

[trinitydevil]

Hey, get this. I had lunch at our golf course today. A gentleman whio is a member of the club also calls Southern Conference mens bball and some ACC womens. I asked him about the call.

He said it was a travel. But no way would he call it in a game that tight. He said a foul would be different. Obviously he has had the benefit of replay also.

[imagepro]

You'd better be PRACTICING at the club, not having lunch. I'm coming SOON. And like I siad, bring the checkbook, not the wallet. You're going to need it!

Oh. I need some spelling lessons. Know anyone who can help?:D

[trinitydevil]

Yeah, bring your sore back, your tendonitis, your neck. Excuses are limited to 14 just like the clubs.

If the Duke players can't be tired and use excuses then neither can you?

[greybeard]

Whatever the rule is, whatever way it can be interpreted... regardless...

this move is 100% legal if performed in the Dean E Smith Center with pansy blue uni's.
It's a walk in both places; no one on the outside would ever do it; people do stuff on the inside that are walks all the time that never get called--90 percent of half the stand still dunks where guys shuffle first. Fman, you know the rules, but they are difficult to apply. That's why I said "I think." Thanks for starting this, amazed to learn how much I forgot or never knew.