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Baracus
03-23-2007, 09:35 PM
I can't say this for sure but I believe that coming into this year Duke players looked to McRoberts for leadership. After all he was the guy who had all the talent, NBA scouts loved him, and with JJ and Shelden gone the supposed scoring threat this year. He didn't live up to those expectations. He was not the vocal leader as I have heard that Lance filled this role more than anybody. He is a player that would have been a lot better with a better supporting cast. He was not ready for what was thrown at him this season. I know I am not the only one who has noticed this because other Duke fans I know shared the same thoughts but it seemed he was never able to take responsibility for the mistakes that he made on the court. After a foul or a turnover or anything that he was involved in that didn't go right he would take it out on the other 4 guys on the court. He fussed at them instead of hitting himself in the chest and saying "my bad". Stepping up and taking responsibility for mistakes that you have made is a sign of true leadership. What was taking place at times on the court had to cause dissension among other players on the court. If you are a team that is looking to a player for leadership and what he gives you is whinning and crying it is not going to sit well. Sorry but at times I believe he didn't act the right way during games. Maybe to say this is a little strong but I don't know another way to say it. I also thought it was very interesting that Coach K was 100% behind McRoberts decision to leave. Maybe things will be better without him next year.

Fish80
03-23-2007, 09:42 PM
We might have a better team next year with the new recruits and a year of seasoning for the returning guys. But we are far better with McRoberts than without him. McRoberts did quite a bit of everything, offensively and defensively, played a complete all 'round game. He played with great passion. I enjoyed watching him play, and wish him well.

You deserve 40 lashes for bashing McRoberts.

Baracus
03-23-2007, 09:46 PM
Sorry but I have had this bottled up in me for awhile.

evrdukie
03-23-2007, 10:02 PM
Duke will miss McRoberts next year, but that doesn't alter the fact that he didn't meet expectations. Meantime, Patterson really looks like a long shot. If he doesn't show up, it seems likely to be another season similar to the one we just finished.

ACCBBallFan
03-23-2007, 10:32 PM
Kyle Singler can play the point-forward role and be more of a jump shot threat, but Duke was light on bigs this year and will be even lighter next unless Patrick Patterson signs on.

Of course, Duke could have had both Josh and Kyle on Offense which would have been entertaining.

Fish80
03-23-2007, 10:34 PM
Even if Patterson goes somewhere else. Zoubek and Thomas will be bigger and stronger. And we'll play small sometimes, with 4 guards.

Troublemaker
03-23-2007, 10:43 PM
Duke will miss McRoberts next year, but that doesn't alter the fact that he didn't meet expectations. Meantime, Patterson really looks like a long shot. If he doesn't show up, it seems likely to be another season similar to the one we just finished.

Longshot meaning about 1 in 3 right? I wouldn't count on next season being much like 8-8 / 1st round loss. Singler should open up the offense a lot. It'll be a very different team stylistically, imo.

Dukefan4Life
03-23-2007, 10:48 PM
I dont think we are going to be a better team without josh. He did bring alot of skills to the team some of them werent used fully in my opnion. I think we used him to much as a passer and not a goto kind of guy. I do think we will have a very very good young team next year!

evrdukie
03-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Mediocre team with McRoberts, probably the best overall player, on board. Without him it's going to be tough unless one of the freshmen turns out to be a dominant player right away. It just doesn't seem very likely to me.

Dukefan4Life
03-23-2007, 10:53 PM
I have seen a few videos of singerl and nolan! singler looks like the real deal! he can score from anywhere on the court and has great passing skills! nolan looks to be a good point guard, great speed and can dish the rock too! i hear he is a lock down defender! looking forward to next season!

Troublemaker
03-23-2007, 11:00 PM
Even if Singler were just a 6'9" guy who can hit 3s consistently and play PF, he would improve Duke (when you add in all the young players getting an extra year of experience) because he would open up driving lanes and give, say, Zoubek time and space to operate inside. But Singler's supposed to be so much more than that.

CathyCA
03-23-2007, 11:07 PM
He is a player that would have been a lot better with a better supporting cast.

No matter how talented a player may or may not be, he must be able to function as a member of the team. I think that McRoberts had talented players surrounding him. I'm not sure whether this team had the chemistry that other Duke teams have possessed.

I don't view McRoberts' early departure to the NBA as a loss for Duke basketball.

dukeisawesome
03-23-2007, 11:10 PM
This past year we were better with McRoberts, but I think we are much better off in the long run w/o McRoberts as it will give other guys a chance to step up and it takes a poor attitude off the team.

Papa John
03-24-2007, 10:14 AM
My opinion, uninformed by any inside information, but informed by years of observing Coach K's teams... I think next year will be a case of addition by subtraction. This years' group seemed to lack the sense of team chemistry that characterizes K's successful teams. Agreed, they were the youngest group in his coaching tenure, but they are were also quite talented on paper, particularly McRoberts, who was considered the cream of the crop in his recruiting class. McRoberts clearly seemed to shy away from the mantle of leadership, and the result was a group that seemed to grow more confused and unsure of themselves as the season wore on. It seemed to me that Paulus tried admirably to fill what had become a glaring leadership void by the middle of the ACC schedule, but the team chemistry was so out of kilter by then it was simply too late. There's plenty of talent there already, and plenty more on the way next season. Taking McRoberts out of the mix might end up improving team chemistry and allowing the group to gel in the proper fashion to meet with a greater level of success.

Just my $.02...

DukieGator
03-24-2007, 10:17 AM
We might have a better team next year with the new recruits and a year of seasoning for the returning guys. But we are far better with McRoberts than without him. McRoberts did quite a bit of everything, offensively and defensively, played a complete all 'round game. He played with great passion. I enjoyed watching him play, and wish him well.

You deserve 40 lashes for bashing McRoberts.

In terms of talent, I'm really not sure how we'll be. If I had to guess, probably not as good. But I think his argument as applied to team chemistry has some merit.

From what I've heard, Josh decided before the start of the season that this one would be his last at Duke. I'm sure word got out to players, coaches, etc. I don't see how you build team cohesion when your star player has made it clear to everyone that there's no chance he's in it for the long haul. Now that we're aware of what Josh's mentality was all year long, I don't think we should at all be surprised about the Feinstein quote from the WaPost article.

Saratoga2
03-24-2007, 10:34 AM
My opinion, uninformed by any inside information, but informed by years of observing Coach K's teams... I think next year will be a case of addition by subtraction. This years' group seemed to lack the sense of team chemistry that characterizes K's successful teams. Agreed, they were the youngest group in his coaching tenure, but they are were also quite talented on paper, particularly McRoberts, who was considered the cream of the crop in his recruiting class. McRoberts clearly seemed to shy away from the mantle of leadership, and the result was a group that seemed to grow more confused and unsure of themselves as the season wore on. It seemed to me that Paulus tried admirably to fill what had become a glaring leadership void by the middle of the ACC schedule, but the team chemistry was so out of kilter by then it was simply too late. There's plenty of talent there already, and plenty more on the way next season. Taking McRoberts out of the mix might end up improving team chemistry and allowing the group to gel in the proper fashion to meet with a greater level of success.

Just my $.02...

Personally I think it is a reach to say that team chemistry and leadership were somehow impacted due to McRoberts attitude. I for one saw the best player on the team go out every night and give it his all for nearly 40 minutes. He didn't foul often despite being a defensive presence inside. He handled the ball well and passed well. Perhaps his biggest weaknesses were that he hadn't developed his pullup jumper and his inside offensive moves to the premier level.

Losing McRoberts will create a major hole in the team. Perhaps Singler can help somewhat there, but he is only 215 pounds so will not have the strength to contest inside against power forwards and centers. Neither Zoubek not Thomas have proven that they can be a starter inside. They are going to improve next year, the question is how much. We will need to play wait and see on Patterson. He has the strength to be a force inside but of course he is not committed and will be another freshman with much growing into the role, should he choose Duke

My take is that losing McRoberts is a major blow to the team.

Papa John
03-24-2007, 11:13 AM
Let me just put it this way... I personally didn't see a very strong/tight "fist" this season. Yes, McRoberts was clearly the best individual player on the court for us. But I believe he didn't fulfill the role that was sorely needed from him from the outset--that of the clear leader and go-to guy... The "franchise player", so to speak. Josh seemed [again, to me] uncomfortable taking on that role.

OZ
03-24-2007, 12:23 PM
[QUOTE=Papa John;10452]Let me just put it this way... I personally didn't see a very strong/tight "fist" this season. Yes, McRoberts was clearly the best individual player on the court for us. But I believe he didn't fulfill the role that was sorely needed from him from the outset--that of the clear leader and go-to guy... The "franchise player", so to speak. Josh seemed [again, to me] uncomfortable taking on that role.



So, just how many "tight-fisted, "clear leader", "franchise players" have you seen at Duke that were sophomores? I can't recall but a very select few and they each had "great" players to go with them that made them look a hell of a lot better. I don't recall a great number that were captains of the team.

DukieUGA
03-24-2007, 12:29 PM
I agree that Duke's chemistry will be much improved next year, which will usually translate into better play. I mean these kids are talented, as is Josh, but without clear direciton, leadership on the court, identity or chemistry no amount of talent is going to dominate the way that Duke has dominated the ACC lately. To all of Josh's apologists, yeah, he put up decent numbers, had many all-around skills etc., but when the guy everyone is looking to (rightly or wrongly) to LEAD is whining and pointing fingers on every play that makes HIM look bad, well, that's the opposite of leadership. No wonder Duke's D disintegrated at the end of the year, noone was interested in listening to Josh's on-court lashings-out against them, noone wanted to pick up his slack. Most of the pressure put on Josh to succeed this year were not of his making nor of his design and certainly not his fault, but he did not develop good leadership skills. I think the team would have better served by him just keeping his mouth shut than demonstratively show his anti-leadership, the passion that so many cite as a sign of his desire to win. To the point that many bring up that Duke will have no interior presence next year, we hardly had any this year. Josh was a presence, just not an interior presence on offense. He does rebound well, but does not seal the lane well (which allows for the beloved penetration and finishing at the rim we lamented not having this year). He has great athleticism but does not score around the rim well except on open dunks. Towards the end of the year teams figured out that he can't shoot so they would not bring their interior defender out very far to defend him, further negating penetration by Nelson, Paulus, Henderson, whoever. If Patterson does not show up at Duke, we'll still have LT (6'8), McClure (6'6), Z (7'1), Singler (6'8) to play in the post as well as Scheyer (6'5), Pocius (6'4) and Henderson (6'4) as well as King (?6'5?), so Duke will be tall and several of those guys can defend multiple positions. If Z and LT are able to get substantially stronger over the summer, i see no reason that they shouldn't be considered as serious inside presences. Does anyone remember how K has been masterfull of using small lineups in the past? Was it '97 when Carrawell was used as a center at times and Duke went with essentially a 4-guard set most of the time?
Josh played pretty well this year, and from a numbers-only standpoint Duke could certainly stand to benefit from his presence. Whether they would have been better next year with him hinges almost entirely on his ability to create better team chemistry than he produced this past year. As it stands, Duke will not have him or his numbers or his attitude next year. What it will have is a large group of returning players with more experience, more maturity and hopefully more drive and verve to put this year behind them and create something better. They'll also have at least 3 new guys that will be able to add depth at the PG (Smith may not be a pure PG, but he'll def provide some cushion and/or competition for Paulus), SF/SG (where Duke already has lots of depth), and SF/PF (where Duke will def need Singler to be proficient in much the same way JM was proficient).

johnnydakota
03-24-2007, 05:23 PM
You people blaming Josh's "attitude" are out of your minds. That kid wants to win as much or more than anyone else on the floor. This isn't sunday school, it's big time basketball. Duke would've been sub .500 w/o him. The guard play, as much as I like them, was really poor at times. If the record is any better next year, it sure as hell won't have anything to do with McRobert's being gone.

Troublemaker
03-24-2007, 05:33 PM
You people blaming Josh's "attitude" are out of your minds. That kid wants to win as much or more than anyone else on the floor. This isn't sunday school, it's big time basketball. Duke would've been sub .500 w/o him. The guard play, as much as I like them, was really poor at times. If the record is any better next year, it sure as hell won't have anything to do with McRobert's being gone.

I agree with you that scapegoating Josh is pathetic (and also cowardly, as these opinions only surfaced after it became fairly certain that he would go pro). Duke will be better next season but like you said, it will be due to the addition of Singler(and Smith/King) and 1 more year of experience for everyone else.

DukieUGA
03-24-2007, 06:27 PM
dear mr/s. dakota and troublemaker,
team sports are tremendously dependent on chemistry of the team itself for performance and success. While i admire your defense of of Josh you both need to wake up and recognize that this team did not achieve its potential this year. If you want to call criticism of Josh's play "scapegoating", well ok. But you should be willing to accept that he had some effect on team chemistry, and that there is a broad spectrum of observation that his effect on chemistry seemed negative. Criticism of Josh did not start with his decision to go pro. He had a decent season statistically, in fact, quite good for sophomores in NCAA play compared across recent years. Was he the lone reason why Duke finished above .500? Absolutely not, there were 7 other guys that received lots of minutes this year. Was he the only reason Duke "underachieved" this year? Absolutely not, other players certainly could have played better, nobody had a perfect season. Including McRoberts, so drop this charade that he was some sort of game-changing dynamo that saved Duke from an abysmal season. Accept the reality that he was a good player but not a superstar. I agree that Duke will better next year to due to maturation of the returning players and an influx of talented freshmen, whether that team will be better than they would have been w/o McRoberts will never be known unless some sort Randolph Morris scenario happens. I hope Josh gets drafted somewhere and plays well in the NBA, i just don't think it'll happen right away. He needs to mature a lot to be a good team player, and Basketball even at the NBA level is a team sport. It would be awesome if had chosen to return to Duke but only if he were able to emotionally mature in the interim.

johnnydakota
03-24-2007, 06:55 PM
Dear uga,
I find it laughable that so many who have zero access to the team on a daily basis are experts on the chemistry problems. Somehow I bet that if Duke could have guarded anyone on the perimeter, or been able to find anyone other than Josh to initiate the offense closer than 40 feet from the basket, the so-called chemistry issues would never have been suggested. Oh, and I do recall the Scheyer quote from the game @ bc saying that Josh's leadership and encouragement had given him the confidence he needed that night. Sometimes talent problems mean more than people realize, especially in the backcourt.
Edited: No, Josh isn't some superstar/dynamo. He is, however, one of the most well-rounded 6-10 players I've ever seen. The charade I'm tired of is the one of "knowledgeable fans" who think you have to be a big scorer to control or effect a game. He's never been that and likely never will. With improved shooting and strength I think he'll be a second or third star on an nba championship team if he ends up in a good situation. If that fails to meet the expectations of some, so be it. It certainly meets mine.

Richard Berg
03-24-2007, 07:17 PM
From what I've heard, Josh decided before the start of the season that this one would be his last at Duke. I'm sure word got out to players, coaches, etc. I don't see how you build team cohesion when your star player has made it clear to everyone that there's no chance he's in it for the long haul. Now that we're aware of what Josh's mentality was all year long, I don't think we should at all be surprised about the Feinstein quote from the WaPost article.
That doesn't make any sense. Star players who will only be around 1 more year build team cohesion all the time. They're called seniors.

Nor is it restricted to players leaving due to graduation. Surely JWill was a positive force for leadership in his 3rd year (when everyone knew he'd leave)?

dukemsu
03-24-2007, 07:18 PM
While Josh's play was frustrating, particularly offensively, for much of the year, I don't think I can scapegoat him for the team's struggles. I think many of us, myself included, just assumed that Josh could step up offensively to make the majority of the production that was lost by JJ and Shel's departures. I had to keep reminding myself of that this year. As much as I wanted things to just be "plug and play", it probably wasn't realistic.

If Josh hadn't been here this year, I don't even want to think about where this team would have been. His contributions, particularly defensively, were enormous. I understand the frustration about the chemistry-it often looked to me as well like things were off. But again, with everyone in a new role, I don't think we can blame that solely on Josh. There's blame to go all around, including on the coaching staff who could never totally figure out what mix worked consistently.

I'm trying to remind myself that last year's team was built to win it all-and if they could have gotten through LSU, they may have. One bad shooting night can end it. Replacing two players through whom everything was run was a lot to expect, and we should expect a lot. This year was going to be a bit of a rebuild no matter what-and the rebuild, as we saw, wasn't all that successful. That is not the fault of one player in my opinion.

dukemsu

johnnydakota
03-24-2007, 07:37 PM
While Josh's play was frustrating, particularly offensively, for much of the year, I don't think I can scapegoat him for the team's struggles. I think many of us, myself included, just assumed that Josh could step up offensively to make the majority of the production that was lost by JJ and Shel's departures. I had to keep reminding myself of that this year. As much as I wanted things to just be "plug and play", it probably wasn't realistic.

If Josh hadn't been here this year, I don't even want to think about where this team would have been. His contributions, particularly defensively, were enormous. I understand the frustration about the chemistry-it often looked to me as well like things were off. But again, with everyone in a new role, I don't think we can blame that solely on Josh. There's blame to go all around, including on the coaching staff who could never totally figure out what mix worked consistently.

I'm trying to remind myself that last year's team was built to win it all-and if they could have gotten through LSU, they may have. One bad shooting night can end it. Losing two players through whom everything was run was a lot to expect, and we should expect a lot. This year was going to be a bit of a rebuild no matter what-and the rebuild, as we saw, wasn't all that successful. That is not the fault of one player in my opinion.

dukemsu

That's pretty funny, because I said the exact same thing to someone today: If JJ and Dock both didn't have terrible games on the same night, Duke had a great chance to win it all last year. It really proves how tough it is to win it all in that tournament. You definitely need a little luck - just ask Ohio St.

Troublemaker
03-24-2007, 07:54 PM
Curse you all for making me go through goduke's archive to find this blurb from K about Josh. Link (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=736374)

"He’s really a good player, and he wants to be good. He’s grown up so much in his desire to become a special player. He’s just been a joy to coach. He’s come in every day and is the first one to get here and the first one to leave. His leadership has been spectacular for our basketball team. He’s doing that kind of stuff like a really good senior."

phaedrus
03-24-2007, 07:59 PM
He’s come in every day and is the first one to get here and the first one to leave.

usually that's where you say they're the last one to leave.

Troublemaker
03-24-2007, 08:06 PM
usually that's where you say they're the last one to leave.

Heh. I didn't even notice that at first. Probably a typo by the transcriber.

johnnydakota
03-24-2007, 08:10 PM
usually that's where you say they're the last one to leave.

Consider the context; clearly a typo.

DukieGator
03-25-2007, 10:43 AM
That doesn't make any sense. Star players who will only be around 1 more year build team cohesion all the time. They're called seniors.

Nor is it restricted to players leaving due to graduation. Surely JWill was a positive force for leadership in his 3rd year (when everyone knew he'd leave)?

You make a good argument, so I'll try to respond as best as I can.

There's a difference between a player that leaves due to graduation and a player that leaves two years early. Surely, a senior who is leaving because he has to graduate (something out of his control) commands much more respect from his teammates than someone who has made it his prerogative to get away from the college game as soon as possible.

JWill was a positive force for leadership during his 3rd year because he was the star player on the team that won the national championship the year before. McRoberts didn't have that kind of starpower, because he was the third best player (at best) on the team from the year before.

What do you think about the Feinstein article that implied coaches and players couldn't care either way whether Josh was leaving? Do you attribute much weight to it?

fogey
03-25-2007, 11:04 AM
His leaving gives other guys a chance (indeed, will force them) to develop and thrive- if he stayed, Z, for instance, would not get a serious shot. Not to mention the fact that, despite obvious skills, he (a) can't shoot; (b) is soft; (c) is VERY slow afoot, and deliberate, (d) took plays off and (d) had a poor attitude.

Baracus
03-25-2007, 10:45 PM
Well I will say again that I thought that it was very interesting that Coach K was 100% behind McRoberts decision to leave. I don't know what that means to some people but to me it said a lot about his impact on this year's team and Duke teams in the future. For Coach K to make a statement like this something was just not right. We can all talk about Josh's accomplishments this year but I really believe that his additude on the court did not sit well not only with Coach K but also with the assistant coaches and players. There are rumors (I cannot say for sure that they are true) that players were frustrated. So I end this post with this question: Why would a college coach would not want a player to stay and play four years after the time and effort put into recruiting him?

tux
03-26-2007, 12:43 PM
I think you're reading too much into K's statement. I think K and Josh had an understanding that this would be Josh's last year. K is just expressing support --- you're reading it as K being happy he's gone by being "100% behind the decision."

As far as the Feinstein quote is concerned: there's probably some truth to it (if not a lot of truth), but the losing streaks that this team faced had to create a lot of pressure within the locker room. Any team is going to have to deal with friction in those circumstances. And, when young guys are leading slightly younger guys, I bet things weren't always dealt with in the most constructive way. But, of course, I have no idea what really happened (or how K really felt about Josh) --- maybe that stuff will come out over the summer...

Duvall
03-26-2007, 12:45 PM
His leaving gives other guys a chance (indeed, will force them) to develop and thrive- if he stayed, Z, for instance, would not get a serious shot. Not to mention the fact that, despite obvious skills, he (a) can't shoot; (b) is soft; (c) is VERY slow afoot, and deliberate, (d) took plays off and (d) had a poor attitude.

Bring back codes.

Classof06
03-26-2007, 01:32 PM
You people blaming Josh's "attitude" are out of your minds. That kid wants to win as much or more than anyone else on the floor. This isn't sunday school, it's big time basketball. Duke would've been sub .500 w/o him. The guard play, as much as I like them, was really poor at times. If the record is any better next year, it sure as hell won't have anything to do with McRobert's being gone.


One of the few things Duke pundits got right is that McRoberts looked flat-out disinterested at times, playing as if college basketball was beneath him. There were times at the end of the season where I almost looked forward to life post-Josh. Put it like this, when it said that last year Krzyzewski and McRoberts had already agreed his 2nd season would be his last, it didn't surprise me one bit. I think this team was adversely affected by Josh in two ways. One, even though he was young, he never seemed to provide the leadership so desperately needed by the freshman (even though it's hard). Two, a team is thrown off chemistry-wise, when the "go-to" guy doesn't take over.

This team never established an identity and one of the first steps to doing so is figuring out who the main man is. With young kids, who will defer to upperclass leaders in tight situations, it hurt the team when these freshman deferred to a kid who didn't even seem to want to take over (see NC State ACC tourney game). Josh's inability/unwillingess to be the guy undoubtedly took a toll on this team. As far as troublemaker's post, did you really expect Coach K to bash McRoberts? Even better, do you really think Coach K believes Josh is ready for the NBA? Of course he's going to say good things about Josh. This is the same guy that says San Jose State is a great team after we strip them by 50 points. It's called being nice.


Lastly, take it for whatever it's worth, but I know for a fact that McRoberts threw Paulus under the bus in early season team meetings because of Greg's poor play. Again, don't expect anyone to believe me, but I would never put this up if I didn't know it to be 100% true.

feldspar
03-26-2007, 02:07 PM
Bring back codes.

Dude, get over it already. People made stupid comments back when we had codes too, you know.

Troublemaker
03-26-2007, 02:35 PM
As far as troublemaker's post, did you really expect Coach K to bash McRoberts? Even better, do you really think Coach K believes Josh is ready for the NBA? Of course he's going to say good things about Josh. This is the same guy that says San Jose State is a great team after we strip them by 50 points. It's called being nice.

K's comments about Josh seemed to go far beyond just being nice. K takes leadership seriously, and if he praises a kid for being a great leader, he probably means it. Read what I quoted again. Seriously, isn't that a bit overboard if you're just "being nice"? I dunno if K actually thinks Josh is ready, but if Josh has a back problem, it's irrelevant. Kid needs to go get his money, and now.

bhd28
03-26-2007, 02:49 PM
K's comments about Josh seemed to go far beyond just being nice. K takes leadership seriously, and if he praises a kid for being a great leader, he probably means it. Read what I quoted again. Seriously, isn't that a bit overboard if you're just "being nice"? I dunno if K actually thinks Josh is ready, but if Josh has a back problem, it's irrelevant. Kid needs to go get his money, and now.

Comeon Trouble,

Why would anyone believe what Coach K says rather than what a friend's, roomate's, best friend's, cousin told someone and is now posted on a message board? I think those people know a lot better than Coach K what Josh did/didn't bring to the team. Right? :rolleyes:

I am with you, myself. It is amazing the sour grapes going on here. Truth is we probably will never know why the team 'underachieved'... and if so... why. Chemistry issues? Maybe. Surely the guys were frustrated with losing a bunch of games in a row. That much is expected and should be the case. Whether guys were frustrated at individual guys, we DON'T know. That won't stop everyone from having their pet theory... and since Josh is leaving, was probably the most talented player on the roster, and was supposed to be the super team leader at the ripe old age of 19, he is obviously the easiest target. Have at it, I say... I just think most criticism probably says more about the poster than about the person being criticised.

Richard Berg
03-26-2007, 03:56 PM
You make a good argument, so I'll try to respond as best as I can.

There's a difference between a player that leaves due to graduation and a player that leaves two years early. Surely, a senior who is leaving because he has to graduate (something out of his control) commands much more respect from his teammates than someone who has made it his prerogative to get away from the college game as soon as possible.

JWill was a positive force for leadership during his 3rd year because he was the star player on the team that won the national championship the year before. McRoberts didn't have that kind of starpower, because he was the third best player (at best) on the team from the year before.
You're pretty close to a tautology here: star seniors (and superstar juniors) are great leaders when they are great leaders. Obviously I agree with that ;) I also agree that Josh would've been a better leader in his junior & senior seasons than he was this year.

However, that's a long way from your original claim. I'm not convinced that knowledge of an upcoming departure hampers leadership. In fact, I'd say that uncertainty is far worse. Ask Tubby's players this year (or Coach G's players last week :() how that feels.


What do you think about the Feinstein article that implied coaches and players couldn't care either way whether Josh was leaving? Do you attribute much weight to it?
Didn't read it, but it sounds reasonable enough. It's not the players' job to worry about their teammates' NBA strategy. They have plenty of more important things to worry about: practicing free throws, defense, communication, strength training, etc. As for the coaches, they are well aware that talent comes & goes and have all the resources they need to plan appropriately.

ACCBBallFan
03-26-2007, 04:46 PM
Just be thankful Josh and K agreed that Josh would play this year. When Greg was in his funk, who would have had a positive assist to turnover ratio.

How quickly people forget how close Duke came to having no Josh and no Lance.

Josh made all his teammates better by not being the go to guy, but rather the go through guy and involving them in the play.

If Josh had padded is stats then posters would complain he was just being selfish, knowing it was his last year.

Imagine how much better Duke would be next year with Josh McRoberts and Kyle Singler being that type of Offensive go through guys.

Duke will be strong next year, would be stronger with Patterson, and strongest with both Josh and Patrick.

I for one enjoyed watching Josh play all facets of the game rather than being the guy the others watched, as happened with JJ. Too many people unrealistically wanted him to be the dominant center which would have made this year's Duke team less effective.

Duke's success this year, albeit not as much as many hoped for, would not have been possible without Josh McRoberts playing point forward, the way coach K instructed him to play for the good of the team.