UNC gets fatigued

[imagepro]

you don't have to read it, but I thought this was interesting.


http://www.newsobserver.com/122/story/556594.html

We all know about the "fist" signals a kid is tired for UNC, and wants a break. If you don't read this, just know that Roy says about one-half of all substituions this year were to rest kids who were "tired".........Interesting....

[throatybeard]

There was a fantastic article in SI (2/26/2007, "Fast and Furious") on Roy's secondary break.

It provides an interesting contrast to Krzyzewski and to Dean. Grant Wahl frames the article in terms of a coach [Roy] getting less conservative and more innovative as he ages.

As fast as they go, it's not enough for Roy.


Williams' staff is fanatical about conditioning--every player broke six minutes in the teams annual preseason run, with point guards Bobby Frasor and Quentin Thomas finishing in under five minutes...


But Williams began shedding his conservatism once he took the Kansas job in 1988, finding success by adding another Ol'ROy wrinkle (code name: Finish It) that Smith has junked out of frustration the year before. (Smith showed Williams the ultimate in professional respect by installing the play himself the following season

[chris13]

Here is the link to the article throaty mentions

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/02/19/carolina0226/index.html

[Redickulous]

so if they go back in the game whenever they want, and just ask the coaches who to go in for (as the article states), then why doesn't Bobby Fraser just walk up to the scorer's table and play a few minutes once in a while? One of life's little mysteries.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

It's not like the players are completely. They can go back in only if they've given the fist to go out. Frasor is usually replaced before he gets tired enough to give the fist.

[Clipsfan]

There was a fantastic article in SI (2/26/2007, "Fast and Furious") on Roy's secondary break.

It provides and interesting contrast to Krzyzewski and to Dean. Grant Wahl frames the article in terms of a coach [Roy] getting less conservative and more innovative as he ages.

As fast as they go, it's not enough for Roy.

Interesting...Throaty's quote just mentions that it is a preseason run, while the article mentions that it is a preseason mile run. I only read the article to see how long the run was, as 5 minutes miles are FAST. I don't know that I believe that two guys on the team can crack a five minute mile before they've even begun preseason training, but if it is true I'm impressed. I wonder why Throaty's quote doesn't include the word "mile"?

[throatybeard]

Two possibilities:

1) Throaty typed wrong. I don't know if this is the case. I left the print copy at my office.

2) Grant Wahl left out the word "mile," assuming people would just infer that a mile was the distance, given that times between 4 and 8 minutes were involved. Most readers are aware of the four-minute mile.

Most laypersons couldn't tell you how the heck long it takes to run say, 2000 meters. Heck, I don't even know if that's a salient distance. I know it's around 1.2 miles. My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's how I likes it.

[Bob Green]

Interesting...Throaty's quote just mentions that it is a preseason run, while the article mentions that it is a preseason mile run. I only read the article to see how long the run was, as 5 minutes miles are FAST. I don't know that I believe that two guys on the team can crack a five minute mile before they've even begun preseason training, but if it is true I'm impressed. I wonder why Throaty's quote doesn't include the word "mile"?

Why do you find it hard to believe that two guys can break 5 minutes for a mile. They are young athletes. I ran at least a dozen sub 5 minute miles in High School. And, I was average at best as an athlete.

As far as distances go: 1,500 meters, 5,000 meters (3.1 miles) and 10,000 meters (6.2 miles) are standard race distances in track.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[throatybeard]

I ran at least a dozen sub 5 minute miles in High School. And, I was average at best as an athlete.

FDA was just too fast for him.

[dukie8]

Interesting...Throaty's quote just mentions that it is a preseason run, while the article mentions that it is a preseason mile run. I only read the article to see how long the run was, as 5 minutes miles are FAST. I don't know that I believe that two guys on the team can crack a five minute mile before they've even begun preseason training, but if it is true I'm impressed. I wonder why Throaty's quote doesn't include the word "mile"?

there's no way that EVERYONE on the team, including the bigs, broke 6 minutes for the mile. as soon as you get over 200 pounds, it becomes increasingly difficult to run fast for any length of time (and their big guys are a lot heavier than 200 pounds). if you don't believe, look at the olympic results from the decathlon to see what incredibly fit but muscular/heavy guys ran in their 1500 meter runs (1500 is roughly 100m short of a mile or roughly 17 seconds short):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/athletics/results/3532992.stm

the gold medalist ran 4:40, which barely converts to a sub 5:00 mile. this is just royo running his mouth.

[gep]

<joke>maybe the "under 5 minutes" was referring to the equivalent of the "40" in football... that's 40 yards... or .022 miles... haha </joke>

I also thought it quite amazing they all can run under 6 minutes, and a couple under 5. But, I was never an athlete...

[Jumbo]

there's no way that EVERYONE on the team, including the bigs, broke 6 minutes for the mile. as soon as you get over 200 pounds, it becomes increasingly difficult to run fast for any length of time (and their big guys are a lot heavier than 200 pounds). if you don't believe, look at the olympic results from the decathlon to see what incredibly fit but muscular/heavy guys ran in their 1500 meter runs (1500 is roughly 100m short of a mile or roughly 17 seconds short):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/athletics/results/3532992.stm

the gold medalist ran 4:40, which barely converts to a sub 5:00 mile. this is just royo running his mouth.

You're wrong on this one, and it's not just happening at UNC. This (http://www.thedaily.washington.edu/article/2007/1/9/huskyBigsTakeWashingtonToNewHeights), in fact, is freakish:
"After his surgery, Hawes ran a 5:22 mile, evidence of his superb condition."

[dukepsy1963]

Why do you find it hard to believe that two guys can break 5 minutes for a mile. They are young athletes. I ran at least a dozen sub 5 minute miles in High School. And, I was average at best as an athlete.

As far as distances go: 1,500 meters, 5,000 meters (3.1 miles) and 10,000 meters (6.2 miles) are standard race distances in track.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

I have driven a mile until 5 minutes many times!!!

[YmoBeThere]

5 minutes miles are FAST. I don't know that I believe that two guys on the team can crack a five minute mile before they've even begun preseason training, but if it is true I'm impressed.

I would have thought this conditioning work is what you would want from your players when they are on their own time, certainly before any NCAA sanctioned time.

[YmoBeThere]

This, in fact, is freakish:
"After his surgery, Hawes ran a 5:22 mile, evidence of his superb condition."

Frightening, I was never a great athlete but giving up 80 lbs to Spencer my best mile time was in the same range as this 5:22 after surgery! But that is probably why he will go on to an NBA career and I still get occasional playing time in a Rec league.

[gw67]

I can easily believe that some guards and wings can run a mile under five minutes (the athletes who compete in the deacathlon run the 1500 meters as the last event of the second day and their tank is nearly on empty at that time so their times are, typically, not great). On the other hand, I find it harder to believe that the big beefy guys (Thompson, Hansbrough and Stevenson) can run a mile under six minutes.
gw67

[throatybeard]

Maybe they were running down East Franklin street to the bottom of Chapel Hill.

[HK Dukie]

wake me up when they break 4 minutes / mile

5 minutes / mile isn't even lettering speed at some High Schools

[Indoor66]

Maybe they were running down East Franklin street to the bottom of Chapel Hill.
Maybe they were running to He's Not Here!

[throatybeard]

OK, I'm back at the office, where I left the print copy of the article, and the answer is that I mis-transcribed. It should have read the team's annual preseason mile run.

Although, again, like I said, you probably could have figured it out from the times.

[ACCBBallFan]

That run must have been after Graves red-shirted. Hard to believe William or Deon Thompson who certainly are in better shape now, ran that quickly in pre-season. I could understand Tyler or Wright running a 6 minute mile. Lots of steps for Miller too, but if he is a gym rat, he cold manage it in 6.

Interesting article, BTW, but written before the Gerogetown game. Before I read it, from the headline I was expecting it to be about Heels looked tired from 30 minute to 45 minute mark of that game. I attributed it to them not used to having to play that many contiguous minutes or under that much pressure, the down side of so much depth.

[banneheim]

Williams has this system in place since 1988 and has won only one NC w/ help from Matt Dougherty's recruits. . . He almost never calls set plays on offense. Aren't great coaches supposed to adapt strategy to their opponents' weaknesses. I mean USC was clearly a faster team than UNC and if had not been up to the refs calling for Hans flops, the Heels wouldn't even be facing Georgetwon. and So, if Lawson leaves, is Frasor up to the task?

[calltheobvious]

UNC wins that game going away even if Psycho's flops had gone unrewarded. Gibson sat for a long time with 4 fouls, and when he returned to the game, he was still tired to the point of being totally ineffectual.

[phaedrus]

if it was on the track, it was almost certainly not a mile, but a mere 1600 meters. the extra 9 meters would add about 2 seconds to everyone's times.

seriously though, it's not impossible for them to have done this but it require far from standard basketball training. unless you're a pretty gifted athlete (endurance athlete, to be more specific) you'd need the right kind of pace-specific training to break 5 minutes in the mile, i.e. something besides windsprints and slow laps around the football field.

[billybreen]

My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's how I likes it.
I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!

[chris13]

Let me digress from my prepared remarks to discuss how I invented the terlet.

Too much pie, son, that's your problem.

[billybreen]

We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you'd say. Now where were we, oh ya. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.

[throatybeard]

Too much pie, son, that's your problem.

I've been around some public schools, and especially in Mississippi, truer words couldn't be spoken.

Paddlin the school canoe...you better believe that's a paddlin.