Who will start?

[CameronCrazy'11]

The roster's set, Summer League play is well under way. Can the collective wisdom of the DBR posters give us a starting line-up?

[speedevil]

The roster's set, Summer League play is well under way. Can the collective wisdom of the DBR posters give us a starting line-up?

pg: paulus
sg: scheyer
sf: henderson
pf: singler
c: thomas

that will be the starting lineup for the first game of the season.
it will change throughout the year.

i believe, zoubek will get some starts at center, smith will get a start at guard, and williams will get a start a sf sometime during the year.

[Acymetric]

Greg, Jon, G, Kyle, and Zoubek for my money. Above I saw Lance listed as a C, and I really hope that he can sneak some minutes on the floor with Z or Plumlee in the game so he can work more as a 4, which probably fits his size and skillset better.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Greg, Jon, G, Kyle, and Zoubek for my money. Above I saw Lance listed as a C, and I really hope that he can sneak some minutes on the floor with Z or Plumlee in the game so he can work more as a 4, which probably fits his size and skillset better.

Agreed. Lance struggles against big center. I think K will split him between the 4 and 5 next year. Even our two freshmen seem like more natural 5's than Lance.

[quickgtp]

I am going with:

g Paulus
g Williams
g Henderson
f Singler
f Thomas

Scheyer, Smith, Zoubek, McClure and Czyz getting the most minutes off the bench.

[Got_Duke]

there's absolutely no way williams starts ahead of scheyer, no way

[Ignatius07]

there's absolutely no way williams starts ahead of scheyer, no way

Thank you. From all accounts Elliot is going to be a really good player, but Scheyer already IS on both defense and offense. He and Singler are two of the most well-rounded players in the ACC. I don't want to beat Jumbo's drum anymore, but suffice it to say it is extremely unlikely K sits Scheyer in lieu of Williams. Now, I can envision a scenario where Nolan starts ahead of Scheyer, but even that is probably not going to happen.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that Gerald and Kyle will start. As for the others, I picked Paulus, though I think there is a very real possibility that Nolan could challenge for that spot by mid-season.

I am puzzled by those that pick LT to start over Zoubek. We saw last year that a frontcourt of LT and Singler means that Singler is guarding the other team's 5, something which K lamented but grudgingly accepted due to Zoubek's health. I wonder if the people who didn't pick Zoubek did so because they don't expect him to be healthy? Because if he is, I think this choice is a slam-dunk (to borrow a notorious phrase). Several times last year K mentioned that he preferred having Zoubek in there to slide Singler over to the 4, and - as good as LT is on defense - Zoubek is simply a better overall choice on defense at the 5, since LT can get outmuscled too easily.

Most minutes off the bench, in order: Nolan, LT, Elliot, McClure, Plumlee, Pocius, Czyz

[Papa John]

In my mind, Henderson, Singler, Scheyer and Paulus are shoe-ins... I think that fifth spot will likely go to Zoubek most of the time, but imagine that K will sometimes opt to go with a 3-guard lineup with Nolan depending on the opponent...

The more intriguing questions to me are who will get bench minutes as the season progresses, as this will be a prime indication of how much progress the returning players have made and/or how talented our frosh actually are... I would love to see a situation where our depth of talent is so even that we end up with an 11-man rotation with guys averaging no less than 7-8 minutes per game, but think this is highly unlikely... Far more likely would be our starters taking around 3/4 of the minutes, with the remainder going to 3-4 other guys... So who are those 3-4 other guys likely to be by mid-season?

[CLT Devil]

I just can't see Zoubek starting over Lance. It's been a whole offseason since Ive seen Zoubs, but it just seems like more bad things happen while he's in there. I think he does a good job of spelling Lance or matching up against a large lineup, but I could see Miles getting those minutes if he's any good at all. I know Zoubs has had to battle through injuries, but I just don't see him getting that much better. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

Paulus
Scheyer
Hendo
Singler
Lance

Not bad with Nolan, McClure, Williams coming off the bench. Interesting to see if Marty can insert himself into the lineup.

[Edouble]

I think pretty much everyone agrees that Gerald and Kyle will start. As for the others, I picked Paulus, though I think there is a very real possibility that Nolan could challenge for that spot by mid-season.

I am puzzled by those that pick LT to start over Zoubek. We saw last year that a frontcourt of LT and Singler means that Singler is guarding the other team's 5, something which K lamented but grudgingly accepted due to Zoubek's health. I wonder if the people who didn't pick Zoubek did so because they don't expect him to be healthy? Because if he is, I think this choice is a slam-dunk (to borrow a notorious phrase). Several times last year K mentioned that he preferred having Zoubek in there to slide Singler over to the 4, and - as good as LT is on defense - Zoubek is simply a better overall choice on defense at the 5, since LT can get outmuscled too easily.

I picked LT to start over Z. I think it could go either way. While a healthy Zoubek is going to get alot of minutes, I think many folks are sleeping on the fact that Lance has had six months to work on the things he needs to work on. He's got talent, and hopefully he's got the desire to hang on to his starting spot that he's had for two years now. It's pretty clear that one of the starting frontcourt spots is Singler's. Lance has a much better shot at beating out Zoubek than Singler for the other frontcourt spot, and to do this he needs to play tough D and rebound. He could improve on the former through hard work over the summer and the latter depends heavily on attitude. Zoubek was definitely coming on at the end of last year, but having Lance on the court makes us a faster team. If he can get stronger in the off-season, I think he has a good shot at starting.

I am interested to hear why some people think that Paulus may lose his starting spot mid-season to Nolan. If Nolan is really a player, I can see him getting close to equal minutes, but I can't see him replacing our top three-point shooting senior captain four-year starter in the starting line-up. I can see how you can make an argument that Nolan will be a better player by the middle of the year, but I can't see him usurping Paulus' spot, just because of the mental/emotional impact of such a move, both on Paulus, and on the team.

[quickgtp]

There is no way Williams starts over Scheyer? Wow, way to support that argument! IMO there is a good shot that Scheyer continues in the 6th man role like he did last year.

BTW.....if we start paulus, scheyer, henderson, singler and zoubek we will get run out of the gym when we play athletic teams. Either Thomas, Smith or Williams (or all) have to be plugged in there somewhere. Czyz and Marty just aren't ready to start.

[CLT Devil]

I don't think there is any chance Williams starts over scheyer. Smith?...possibly. Scheyer is too good. Williams would basically have to be as good as Demarcus to warrant starting. I could see Nolan coming in early for Paulus or Scheyer as the 6th.

[mgtr]

I think the poll results are interesting. The four players that most people select are probably the core of the team (Paulus, Scheyer, Henderson & Singler, in no particular order) have about the same number of votes. Thomas and Zoubek have about the same total between them, and are about equally split.

Sounds like a pretty good summary of most of the discussions since April.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I think the poll results are interesting. The four players that most people select are probably the core of the team (Paulus, Scheyer, Henderson & Singler, in no particular order) have about the same number of votes. Thomas and Zoubek have about the same total between them, and are about equally split.

Sounds like a pretty good summary of most of the discussions since April.

I think it's a good sign that nobody hasn't picked Henderson and Singler yet. Given the discussions over the past few months, I'm a little surprised that more people aren't choosing Smith or Williams. I thought they'd have about 25% each wanting them to start.

[3rd Dukie]

I am just curious as to why so few people expect Scheyer to be the 6th man again. He seemed to embrace the role last year. Some guys can do it, and some can't.
I'm not saying he's not one the most important guys on the team.

Just wondering.

[Indoor66]

I am just curious as to why so few people expect Scheyer to be the 6th man again. He seemed to embrace the role last year. Some guys can do it, and some can't.
I'm not saying he's not one the most important guys on the team.

Just wondering.

IMO he is one of the best four players on the team. Who would you consider starting ahead of him?

[Bob Green]

I am just curious as to why so few people expect Scheyer to be the 6th man again.

I believe Jon Scheyer will definitely start. The 6th Man role will be filled by Nolan Smith. The 7th Man will be either Thomas or Zoubek depending upon which one doesn't start.

As the season progresses, roles will shift.

[DukieInBrasil]

I went with Singler, Scheyer, Z, Paulus and Gerald.
A healthy Z should start over LT b/c he can handle bigger players.
I think it is possible that Scheyer doesn´t start, but it wouldndn´t be for EWill, it would be for Smith. I think that he is the quiintessential 6th man, but he is too good to not start. Unless Smith makes a huge leap forward as a ball-handler and distributor, Scheyer will most likely start.
I don´t think Paulus sits, certainly not on opening day.

[DevilDan]

As much as I am rooting for Zoubek to start and produce, I think at best we can only expect to get 3-4 minute spurts from him. Anything further would be to expect stamina from him that we haven't seen to date. If we are up-tempo (as well SHALL be), I'd take those few minutes at a time from BZ, with Lance rotating in and out. If Miles & Olek push these two, all the better.

The other four spots? No worries ... Go DUKE

[Edouble]

I am just curious as to why so few people expect Scheyer to be the 6th man again. He seemed to embrace the role last year. Some guys can do it, and some can't.
I'm not saying he's not one the most important guys on the team.

Just wondering.

So few people expect Scheyer to be the sixth man because most of the time in college basketball, and I'm talking about any team here, if a good player leaves (Nelson), the younger guy who was coming off the bench first the year before for him (Scheyer), takes his place in the starting line-up.

Shane Battier really embraced the role of defensive role player, but we wouldn't have gotten the NC in 2001 if he hadn't grown as a player.

[CameronCrazy'11]

There seems to be a little bit of revisionism as to why Scheyer was th 6th man (or 6th starter, as K called him) last year. It wasn't because K thought he needed Scheyer coming off the bench, it was simply because there were better players to start. Who was Scheyer going to start over? Not Singler or Thomas: that would be way out of position for him. Not Paulus: Scheyer's not a point guard. Not Nelson or Henderson: both were a touch better.

Now that Nelson's gone, Scheyer is the best shooting guard on the team unless Smith or Williams is much better than everyone thinks. Therefore, Nelson's old spot goes to Scheyer. Talented players will still provide energy off the bench, although we might not have a true "6th man" again coming off the bench to average quite as many minutes or points as Scheyer did last year.

[quickgtp]

See then what's the point debating this? Williams could very well be a stronger player than Scheyer come game 1. Only time will tell. Again, we need some athleticism on the court outside of GH.

[mgtr]

I will put my money on the analysis by Cameron Crazy '11. I believe he has thought this out.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I just think it's very uncommon for a worse overall player to start over a better one at the same position. The only reason that would usually happen is if the better player had a gaping weakness that the team needed the worse player to make up (Ginyard over Danny Green might be an example of this). The reason people usually give for Williams starting over Scheyer is that a Paulus/Scheyer backcourt lacks penetration and would be a liability on defense, but I don't really buy that Scheyer is those things. Last year he got inside fairly easily and was a very good defender. Is Elliot's defense and penetration really that much better than Scheyer's (if at all) that it justifies starting him despite Scheyer's proven strengths?

[skitelz]

To add on to what CameronCrazy11 said:

And even if Elliot's abilities are that much better than Jon's (which is highly unlikely in its own right considering how weak this class is claimed to be), does one really think that the transition from high school ball to college wouldn't erase the completely?

As someone in another thread already stated, the transition from high school ball to college ball is great. It is unfair to Elliot to place these huge expectations on a him when he has yet to shoot a college jump shot. As good as Elliot could potentially be, he isnt yet. If he makes contributions on the scale of Nolan last year, I will be extremely proud and happy with his production. Let's wait and see what he can do before we claim him the starter over a much more experience Junior with one year of starter's experience. I would rather have Elliot over-shoot realistic expectations than fall short of expectations set too high. If he is great enough to unseat Jon from his starting spot than so be it. I would be thrilled because it would mean that Elliot is truly great. But until that happens, Jon is the man.

[Ignatius07]

I just think it's very uncommon for a worse overall player to start over a better one at the same position. The only reason that would usually happen is if the better player had a gaping weakness that the team needed the worse player to make up (Ginyard over Danny Green might be an example of this). The reason people usually give for Williams starting over Scheyer is that a Paulus/Scheyer backcourt lacks penetration and would be a liability on defense, but I don't really buy that Scheyer is those things. Last year he got inside fairly easily and was a very good defender. Is Elliot's defense and penetration really that much better than Scheyer's (if at all) that it justifies starting him despite Scheyer's proven strengths?

Not to nitpick here - because I really do agree with most of your analysis - but Elliot's penetration just might be better than Scheyer's. I think that Scheyer is underrated by a lot of fans, but he is certainly underrated with regard to his penetration ability. He's not as good as Nolan (speed) or DeMarcus (strength), but he is often able to finagle his way to the basket and is a good finisher. Despite all that, Scheyer is considered to be a good player because of being so good in so many areas. Elliot's reputation, at this point, seems mostly due to his penetration ability and athleticism (which obviously lends him to be a good defender if he understands the mental aspect). So Elliot is probably a better penetrator and possibly a better defender (though I'll believe it when I see it, as he's a freshman) than Scheyer.

Edit: Not to be extremely confusing, but I expect/want Scheyer to start over Elliot. My point was that Scheyer would still be a better choice even if Elliot were marginally better in those two categories.

[mgtr]

So everybody agrees? that Scheyer starts, and the only question is who start down low, Thomas or Zoubek? That makes life relatively simple.

[CameronCrazy'11]

So everybody agrees? that Scheyer starts, and the only question is who start down low, Thomas or Zoubek? That makes life relatively simple.

30 votes each? C'mon, somebody's gotta break that tie. Hard call though. Thomas is probably the more conservative pick, considering he's started over Zoubek previously. But Zoubek probably fits our needs better if he's up to the job. Really though, if we don't break this tie, how will Coach K know what to do?

[dukeENG2003]

I say Lance starts, because he is a superior defender, and gives us more flexibility on D as far as being able to switch when necessary.

Against UNC, Z will start, but against MOST teams, Lance will.

[mgtr]

30 votes each? C'mon, somebody's gotta break that tie. Really though, if we don't break this tie, how will Coach K know what to do?

This post ought to be on a banner in the rafters at CIS. One of the funniest things I have read in a long, long time.

[Devils Rock]

I think it should be apparent that Z will get the start over LT as long as he is healthy. Coach K actually came out and said as much earlier this summer. He made a comment that if Z had been healthy last year, he would have started even if he did not play the whole game. Furthermore, I saw a few games last year that gave me the impression that a healthy Z would be much more valuable than LT. I have hoped for LT to be the player we need at the 4 spot, let alone the 5 spot for which he is ill-suited. Bottom line last year was that I too often saw him miss point-blank layups and get out-rebounded by much smaller players. Z on the other hand showed flashes of nice passing out of the post and the ability to at least eat some space and grab the easy rebounds. Last but not least, our failure to have a legitimate low post presence last year has been cited numerous times (in these boards and in the media at large) as a key challenge for our team last year (in addition to other things, it had the much discussed effect of wearing down Kyle). It's hard to believe that we would intentionally venture down the same path again this coming year if we don't have to. I'm sure LT is a great guy and I root for his continued improvement, but my vote is for a healthy Z in the post.

[CameronCrazy'11]

This is a pretty spot-on analysis. I'd rather have a healthy and improved Zoubek than an improved Thomas in the post.

Also, who voted against Kyle and Gerald?

[quickgtp]

I'm blown away that we would start Zoubek with the "core 4." If we do that we will get beaten by athleticism alone. GH would be the only athletic player on the floor. Imagine this:

Paulus checking Lawson
Scheyer checking Ellington
GH checking Green
Singler checking Thompson/Davis
Zoubek on Travel Hans

Lawson would shred Greg, and I actually think GH would have a difficult time on Danny Green. Travel would cause Brian to pick up 2 fouls in the first minute of the game. Singler could also have his hands full on Ed Davis.

I know how pessimistic this sounds, but come on, I do think these would not be good circumstances!

Please correct me if I am wrong!

[CameronCrazy'11]

I'm blown away that we would start Zoubek with the "core 4." If we do that we will get beaten by athleticism alone. GH would be the only athletic player on the floor. Imagine this:

Paulus checking Lawson
Scheyer checking Ellington
GH checking Green
Singler checking Thompson/Davis
Zoubek on Travel Hans

Lawson would shred Greg, and I actually think GH would have a difficult time on Danny Green. Travel would cause Brian to pick up 2 fouls in the first minute of the game. Singler could also have his hands full on Ed Davis.

I know how pessimistic this sounds, but come on, I do think these would not be good circumstances!

Please correct me if I am wrong!

If you're talking about Duke vs. Carolina, Zoubek probably defended Hanstravel the best of anyone. Hanstravel had the most trouble in general with very tall centers. I doubt Thomas would do much better on Hans.

As for Henderson being the only athletic player in that lineup, I think that seriously understates the rest of the team's athleticism. We had a very athletic team last year.

[CLT Devil]

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks Z, even when healthy, is more of a detriment to the team when he's in the game than any positives he brings. I think his footwork is a long way from being serviceable...he is a travelling machine. He seems to fumble passes VERY often and when he does get the ball he brings it down below his head and gets his pocket picked by smaller players. These are fundamentals that a player should have at the Junior High level...I honestly just don't see it.

Some posters seem to think he's a shoe-in to start against the 'Holes, but when we won in Chapel Hill Lance had the best game of his career. Maybe we are so desperate to have a good big man that some are blinded by his shortcomings, and there's no doubt that he tries hard, but IMHO Zoubs is not that good and does not warrant starting time, or any significant PT for that matter.

I am one of the most positive fans out there, but on this issue I can't find much to look forward to. He might get some Matt Christian/Taymon Domzalski minutes just because he is the only legit big man we have other than an incoming freshman who likely has a long way to go in terms of strength.

[quickgtp]

What I mean is that athleticism of the starting 5 would be pretty low. Yes last years starting five had SOME athleticism:

Paulus No
Nelson Yes
Henderson Yes
Singler Somewhat
Thomas Yes

Last years 5 would be more athletic than a starting five that is being penciled in here.....

[CameronCrazy'11]

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks Z, even when healthy, is more of a detriment to the team when he's in the game than any positives he brings. I think his footwork is a long way from being serviceable...he is a travelling machine. He seems to fumble passes VERY often and when he does get the ball he brings it down below his head and gets his pocket picked by smaller players. These are fundamentals that a player should have at the Junior High level...I honestly just don't see it.

Some posters seem to think he's a shoe-in to start against the 'Holes, but when we won in Chapel Hill Lance had the best game of his career. Maybe we are so desperate to have a good big man that some are blinded by his shortcomings, and there's no doubt that he tries hard, but IMHO Zoubs is not that good and does not warrant starting time, or any significant PT for that matter.

I am one of the most positive fans out there, but on this issue I can't find much to look forward to. He might get some Matt Christian/Taymon Domzalski minutes just because he is the only legit big man we have other than an incoming freshman who likely has a long way to go in terms of strength.

I definitely agree with a lot of what you're saying there. Zoubek definitely has a lot about his game that he needs to fix. Lance's game appears to be good when you watch it, but so far he hasn't been able to score or rebound significantly at all.

If you adjust Zoubek's and Lance's stats for time played, Zoubek scores more and steals more, and significantly outrebounds (Z's our best rebounder) and outblocks Thomas. Zoubek turns the ball over a little more (actually less than you'd think), but he gets way more assists than Lance and has a much better A/To ratio. Combine all this with the fact that Lance struggles to guard big centers, and I think we have to go with Zoubek, despite his problems.

[mgtr]

I'm blown away that we would start Zoubek with the "core 4." If we do that we will get beaten by athleticism alone. GH would be the only athletic player on the floor. Imagine this:

Paulus checking Lawson
Scheyer checking Ellington
GH checking Green
Singler checking Thompson/Davis
Zoubek on Travel Hans

Lawson would shred Greg, and I actually think GH would have a difficult time on Danny Green. Travel would cause Brian to pick up 2 fouls in the first minute of the game. Singler could also have his hands full on Ed Davis.

I know how pessimistic this sounds, but come on, I do think these would not be good circumstances!

Please correct me if I am wrong!

Wow! How in the world did we ever beat these guys at Chapel Hill this year? Nelson must have been a superman, since he was the only difference.

[CLT Devil]

I think those stats might be correct, CamCrazy, but you also have to take into account that Zoubs fouls so much, and that's a reason maybe his minutes were low? I feel if you give him enough PT he will either foul out, ala Casey Sanders, or turn the ball over. Lance gives us the last man back in our full court press which I don't think fits Z as a role.

This might not be analogous, but it's like putting Shaq on the heat (not comparing Shaq to Z btw), but with a traditional center like him we try and give him the ball down low as opposed to our drive and kick that worked so well. Z slows down the game so much on the offensive side that it gets us out of sync. We will definately miss Markie and his strength to get it in the lane. Once again, nothing personal on Z, but I think we need to move on and give Miles a chance to develop. We know what we have in Z and it aint that great. Kid hustles hard and really tries, but you can't teach coordination. Maybe I'm focusing too much on the bad, but he has really weak hands and fumbles the ball away on rebounds and entry passes too often.

[bradjenk]

Wow! How in the world did we ever beat these guys at Chapel Hill this year? Nelson must have been a superman, since he was the only difference.

Well, actually Lawson didn't play so we got Q.Thomas (who didn't play awful). But still a valid point considering Nelson missed half the game with extremely questionable foul trouble.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I think those stats might be correct, CamCrazy, but you also have to take into account that Zoubs fouls so much, and that's a reason maybe his minutes were low? I feel if you give him enough PT he will either foul out, ala Casey Sanders, or turn the ball over. Lance gives us the last man back in our full court press which I don't think fits Z as a role.

This might not be analogous, but it's like putting Shaq on the heat (not comparing Shaq to Z btw), but with a traditional center like him we try and give him the ball down low as opposed to our drive and kick that worked so well. Z slows down the game so much on the offensive side that it gets us out of sync. We will definately miss Markie and his strength to get it in the lane. Once again, nothing personal on Z, but I think we need to move on and give Miles a chance to develop. We know what we have in Z and it aint that great. Kid hustles hard and really tries, but you can't teach coordination. Maybe I'm focusing too much on the bad, but he has really weak hands and fumbles the ball away on rebounds and entry passes too often.

Actually, Lance fouls slightly more on a per minute basis than Zoubek. The stats are taken from ESPN.

I agree with you about Zoub's negatives, but I think you may be underestimating Lance's weaknesses. We got killed on the boards last year and probably lost some games just because we got out-rebounded so badly. On a per minute basis, Lance got outrebounded by everyone except Scheyer and our point guards. When your starting 2, 3, and 4 out-rebound your starting "center" there's something wrong.

The reason I like Zoubek despite his weaknesses is that I feel he compensates for our team weaknesses the most. We have great scorers at the 1-4 and don't need our 5 to be the primary scoring threat. We need a center who can make up our rebounding deficit, and Zoubek is statistically the best rebounding Duke player. We also need a center who can stop the opposing center from getting to the basket at will, and Zoubek seems to be able to do that better than Thomas.

You're right that Zoubek does not fit our drive and kick system as well as Thomas, but even so he managed to put the ball through the hoop a little more often than Thomas. I really don't see us running our offense through Zoubek that much. We'll maybe use him for some screens, but I think mostly we'll just park him in the paint to position for an easy basket if someone needs to pass out of a double team or for an offensive rebound.

I'm also optimistic about Miles since he's got some serious height and apparently is putting on weights as well. If he can defend in the paint and rebound well, look for him to get 10 minutes a game or so.

[Ignatius07]

Once again, nothing personal on Z, but I think we need to move on and give Miles a chance to develop. We know what we have in Z and it aint that great. Kid hustles hard and really tries, but you can't teach coordination. Maybe I'm focusing too much on the bad, but he has really weak hands and fumbles the ball away on rebounds and entry passes too often.

You're ready to move on after only half of the kid's career? Keep in mind that he is a 7 footer - the ones who stay in college are not the ones who are ready to go league, and often take longer to develop.

I'm not saying I didn't expect more from Zoubek at this point, but unlike with Lance or Paulus, I can honestly say it's mostly due to injuries. Zoubek did have a marked improvement last year, and if he can stay healthy I certainly expect him to contribute in a big way.

You do bring up a good point in that his strengths do not necessarily fit a drive-and-kick offense, but until Lance can consistently score a few points in the paint (like in the game at Chapel Hill), Zoubek is the man.

And I think if you are expecting a decent but not spectacular recruit like Miles Plumlee to beat out either Zoubek or LT for the starting position, you will be sorely mistaken.

[quickgtp]

Wow! How in the world did we ever beat these guys at Chapel Hill this year? Nelson must have been a superman, since he was the only difference.


WOW! You must have not seen that game!

Lawson was out, Thomas was checking Thompson (who also had some questionable calls on him) and Singler was checking Travel. Thomas played the best game of his career as well. Zoubek was essentially a non factor.

If you ask me that is a pretty big difference. So, what sort of sarcastic view will you have next?

[quickgtp]

I don't know if anyone touched on this but Zoubek is very good as screening to allow the guards to drive the baseline. That is very significant with our guard heavy team.....

[CDu]

I don't know if anyone touched on this but Zoubek is very good as screening to allow the guards to drive the baseline. That is very significant with our guard heavy team.....

Zoubek definitely has some quality attributes. Unfortunately, he also had some serious injury issues. He missed at least half of the summer recovering from yet another foot injury. For a big man, that's a big red flag. Until he shows otherwise, I have to believe he's behind Thomas on the depth chart.

[ACCBBallFan]

If the poll results were the starting lineup in the Blue-White game, the other 5 would still be very competitive, a testament to good depth

Paulus vs. Nolan Smith
Scheyer vs. E Williams
Henderson vs. Marty Pocius
Singler vs. Lance/Dave
Zoubek/Lance vs. Olek/Plumlee

http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&KEY=&SPID=1845&SPSID=22727

If Olek really is 240 pounds, I would go with these rotations

C - Zoubek/Olek/Plumlee
PF - Singler/Lance/Dave
WF - Henderson/Marty/Dave depending on whether need is Offense/Defense
SG - Scheyer/E Williams
PG - Paulus/ Nolan

and keep Lance at his natural position which helps his short term and long term growth which playing center does not, now that Taylor King is not an option.

Need to have s second option whenever Singler is in foul trouble or needs a rest.

I understand that while Olek is second heaviest and very athletic with crowd pleasing dunks and effort, he currently lacks court sense with respect to rebounding and defensive positioning. He will however be a good practice player to help Zoubek develop and vice versa. No idea on Plumlee viability other than he appears to lack upper body strength a la Lance and Kyle and has 5 fouls to give.

Also helps Singler's and Lance's individual development to practice against one another.

Occasionally small ball full court pressure with the most athletic guys

Olek/Singler
Henderson/Singler
Marty/Henderson
E Williams/Scheyer
Nolan Smith/Scheyer

Not even counting Lance/Dave whose defense is as good but whose offense is not as good as these other options. At the forward position, I suspect Lance could be better offensively, but ideally neither Kyle nor Lance should be asked to guard a bulky center.

If that starting lineup were being torched by a super athletic team, that's why there are bench players to complement them, but there are not all that many super athletic opponents.

Dave is a senior and knows the Duke system but hard to figure out where to play him. Marty is a veteran now too but also hard to figure out who he supplants. Neither hurt you when they play, but the good also does not far outweigh the bad, if you are playing to win rather than to not lose.

I know there is a natural tendency to compare all lineups against UNC, but that match up happens at most four times and would require more Nolan/E Will to counter Lawson.

[jv001]

I'm blown away that we would start Zoubek with the "core 4." If we do that we will get beaten by athleticism alone. GH would be the only athletic player on the floor. Imagine this:

Paulus checking Lawson
Scheyer checking Ellington
GH checking Green
Singler checking Thompson/Davis
Zoubek on Travel Hans

Lawson would shred Greg, and I actually think GH would have a difficult time on Danny Green. Travel would cause Brian to pick up 2 fouls in the first minute of the game. Singler could also have his hands full on Ed Davis.

I know how pessimistic this sounds, but come on, I do think these would not be good circumstances!

Please correct me if I am wrong!

You make a good case for using Smith and Williams for major minutes. It's not who starts, but who plays the important minutes. Thomas has not shown he can play the 5 position and if he does play that position, Kyle will be one tired player by Feb. 09 Just as he was this year. We had better hope Brian is healthy and can play 15 to 20 mins per game. As for the guards, I hope coach plays the best defenders.

[Devils Rock]

I'm blown away that we would start Zoubek with the "core 4." If we do that we will get beaten by athleticism alone. GH would be the only athletic player on the floor. Imagine this:

Paulus checking Lawson
Scheyer checking Ellington
GH checking Green
Singler checking Thompson/Davis
Zoubek on Travel Hans

Lawson would shred Greg, and I actually think GH would have a difficult time on Danny Green. Travel would cause Brian to pick up 2 fouls in the first minute of the game. Singler could also have his hands full on Ed Davis.

I know how pessimistic this sounds, but come on, I do think these would not be good circumstances!

Please correct me if I am wrong!

While I agree that LT's athleticism would be helpful on the court, as noted earlier, his athleticism alone does not necessarily produce points and rebounds. With all of the other offensive options on the court, we will primarily need a rebounder in the post.

As I metioned before, K himself has indicated that a healthy Zoubek would possibly start and I think perhaps he knows at least as much about what he expects to do as we do. From June of this year: "“Health again. [Brian] Zoubek was there last year. I’m not saying he’d have been an All-ACC performer, but he would have given us a starter or 20 minutes a game and that would have helped Kyle [Singler] not be worn out at the end of the year. When something happens to one, it has an impact on another. Sometimes it’s positive. In this case, there was erosion. We had enough inside to go to a certain level. But the guy who was a great player for us was not at his best at the end because he gave it his all"

BTW - One could argue that if athleticism were paramount, there is no way our Hurley/Laettner/Hill team should have beaten Vegas. We had three very good athletes (the two Hills and Davis), but UNLV was more athletic than us at almost every position on the floor. Even G Hill was no better a pure athlete than Augmon (who had sick hops), but he was a better overall player.

[Devils Rock]

To be honest, I hope I am wrong in my assesment of LT vs Z. I just read this comment from SupaDave from another thread and I see that his local contacts gave LT some love regarding his performance in the Durham tourney. "Lance has been POSSESED and if he brings any of that to the court - LOOK OUT." I did not mean to bash LT with my earlier comments - nothing would make me happier than LT starting because that would mean that he has risen above the crowded field in the post and it would be great to actually have someone in the post who clearly establishes himself as the superior option.

[Edouble]

To be honest, I hope I am wrong in my assesment of LT vs Z. I just read this comment from SupaDave from another thread and I see that his local contacts gave LT some love regarding his performance in the Durham tourney. "Lance has been POSSESED and if he brings any of that to the court - LOOK OUT." I did not mean to bash LT with my earlier comments - nothing would make me happier than LT starting because that would mean that he has risen above the crowded field in the post and it would be great to actually have someone in the post who clearly establishes himself as the superior option.

Yeah, but it's SupaDave, so you shoud those comments with a shaker of salt.

[bleeddukeblue]

My starting line-up would be:

Smith/Paulus
Henderson
Singler
Thomas
Zoubek

This would help alot with the rebounding since we don't have a dominante big man. Henderson shoot has improved. This would cause alot of mismatches and would match good againist the Tarheels. Smith speed would be the difference in the open floor and for defense on the ball. With the double teams Paulus might fit better with this line-up because he would be open with that the 3 ball. Henderson athletic ability to shoot over smaller defenders and get to the rack and demand double teams. Single get to play his regular position taking smaller guys to the post. He wouldn't be so burned out at the end of the season. And Thomas would be much improve playing his regular position getting to step out and hit the 15 footers. Coming in Thomas was suppose to be a good mid range shooter that gets to the free-throw line alot. The bench will be alot better having Scheyer and Williams coming off to open things up them together coming in the game will cause alot of trouble with Sheyers shooting and Williams ability to get to the rack!!!

off the bench
pg Paulus or Smith
sg Sheyer
sf Williams
pf Czyz
c/pf Plumlee
g/sf Pocius
sf/pf McClure

[Edouble]

My starting line-up would be:

Smith/Paulus
Henderson
Singler
Thomas
Zoubek

This would help alot with the rebounding since we don't have a dominante big man. Henderson shoot has improved. This would cause alot of mismatches and would match good againist the Tarheels. Smith speed would be the difference in the open floor and for defense on the ball. With the double teams Paulus might fit better with this line-up because he would be open with that the 3 ball. Henderson athletic ability to shoot over smaller defenders and get to the rack and demand double teams. Single get to play his regular position taking smaller guys to the post. He wouldn't be so burned out at the end of the season. And Thomas would be much improve playing his regular position getting to step out and hit the 15 footers. Coming in Thomas was suppose to be a good mid range shooter that gets to the free-throw line alot. The bench will be alot better having Scheyer and Williams coming off to open things up them together coming in the game will cause alot of trouble with Sheyers shooting and Williams ability to get to the rack!!!

off the bench
pg Paulus or Smith
sg Sheyer
sf Williams
pf Czyz
c/pf Plumlee
g/sf Pocius
sf/pf McClure

Singler's best position is at the 4. Putting him at the 3 so that Lance is in the game seems like a bad idea, when the other option is to put him at his natural position in the frontcourt, and have Scheyer (a much better player) in the game. How does your line-up make Paulus more open for a three pointer off of double teams than in a different line-up? Regardless of how Thomas was advertised coming in, I do not think he should be taking 15 footers when he has problems hitting a lay-up. I'd rather have Scheyer or Williams (or anybody, really) taking that kind of shot. Having three bigger frontcourt players in the starting line-up is a really good idea if the frontcourt is our strength, but it's not. Our guards and our wings plus Singler are our strengths, so the starting line-up should reflect the best dose of those players that we can get on the court, with whatever big guy can defend and rebound enough for Kyle not to get worn down.

[bleeddukeblue]

We have to get bigger and more athletic. Paulus killed us on defense!!! You must have not went to any of the pro am games in Durham. Thomas has been a stud! We have some decent post players but none of them rebound that good. With that line-up we are ablet to help better in the post! We will not be able to play the Tarheels and Wakeforest. No one in our post can guard Hansborough one on one. Thomas Henderson and Singler will be able to help with there size and wing span. Singler cause alot more miss matches at 3. Henderson can take smaller guards in the post and so will Singler. We need his outside shooting, rebounding, and he can put the ball on the floor and get the rack. We need that!!! He could be a Dunleavy kind of player for us. Thomas will be a better player for us at the 4 position!!!

[Cdog923]

The first game of the year....

Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

As the year progresses, look for Thomas to slip behind and get minutes at the 4 position, with Olek getting a few minutes here and there as well. Zoubek and Plumlee will play the 5, letting Singler roam between the 3 and the 4, depending on if we want to play big. It would be nice having our front court consist of Singler, Thomas and Zoubek at some time during games.

[ACCBBallFan]

Threads are overlapping. So I will be brief for a change. OC and Plumlee are not ready for significant game play yet. Lance's great hustle in NCSU ProAm is best suited as backup to Singler but since Zoubs is the only big man, Lance will be his first backup too, a three man rotation helped in practice by the two frosh and the two new members of staff - CWell and Nate James.