Wie DQ'd for not signing scorecard

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Michelle was DQ'd for not signing her score card - yesterday (Friday), after she played her Saturday round (and was one stroke back in second place). She said it was an unfortunate, but honest mistake - doesn't know how it happened. She also said, very calmly and maturely (which was nice to see, ie, no tears) that it was a learning experience and hopefully never happen again.

The big story is that she is playing well again! Maybe she'll FINALLY start to fulfill her potential and win a tournament soon.

[allenmurray]

What a quaint rule - no, I take that back. What a stupid rule. The thing was on national TV for gosh sake - everone knows what her score was - it is not like there was any attempt at dishonesty here. Golf really needs to examine this - hasn't this happened a couple of times in the last year?

[CameronBornAndBred]

What a quaint rule - no, I take that back. What a stupid rule.

Agreed, but it's golf, and it's the most self governed sport in sports. The Sunday hacks let plenty slide by, but since it IS on national TV, and tour, gotta own up. It's really good to hear she is playing well, I think she went in way to early under too many expectations, her own included. Even Tiger didn't go pro until after a few years at school.

[CathyCA]

Signing the score card is a stupid, stupid, stupid rule. Especially since the tournament is televised, officiated and observed by so many people.

Kudos to Michelle Wie for not losing her cool over an obvious oversite concerning an obviously antiquated and useless rule.

Did I mention that I think that the "signing the score card rule" is stupid?

[mph]

The details make the enforcement of this rule look even worse. Apparently, Wie wasn't DQed for failing to sign her 2nd round card, but failing to sign it in a "timely manner." (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/post/Golf-is-a-Wie-bit-full-of-itself-on-this-one?urn=top,94785)


But this time, golf got stupid. On Saturday, struggling yet still popular prodigy Michelle Wie was eliminated from the LPGA's State Farm Classic when officials informed her that she failed to sign the previous day's scorecard in a timely fashion.

The highlighted phrase is key. Seems the 18-year-old had a brain freeze following her second round Friday and walked out of the scorer's tent without signing her card. Once volunteers in the tent realized her mistake, they chased down Wie, who had walked not far from the tent.

Wie returned and signed the card. No harm, no foul, right?

Nope. Tournament officials didn't learn of the incident until Saturday. After investigating, it was determined that Wie had walked past a roped-off area surrounding the tent known as the "scoring area." If she'd been caught before passing the rope, Wie, who was playing well for a change, would still be in the hunt for her first LPGA victory ever.

[YmoBeThere]

I agree it isn't the best of rules, but it is there and everyone has to observe it also, it is possible that many of the lesser known competitors may never get caught on camera for all their shots. So they could never fall back on the, "Well it was on TV" excuse...

[Indoor66]

The simple point is that it is a rule of golf and has been since the beginning of competition. You keep your score and attest that it is correct by signing and turning in your scorecard. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with this. To fail to comply with the rule has a simple solution: you are disqualified. What is the problem. Break the rule, suffer the consequence.

Throw a punch and you are out of the game. Break the rule, suffer the consequence.

It is unfortunate for Wie, but she is in the big leagues and she handled it like a big leaguer.

[mapei]

This makes golf look really stupid. It's a boring game to watch anyway, unless you play it, and this doesn't help.

[2535Miles]

The simple point is that it is a rule of golf and has been since the beginning of competition. You keep your score and attest that it is correct by signing and turning in your scorecard. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with this. To fail to comply with the rule has a simple solution: you are disqualified. What is the problem. Break the rule, suffer the consequence.

Throw a punch and you are out of the game. Break the rule, suffer the consequence.

It is unfortunate for Wie, but she is in the big leagues and she handled it like a big leaguer.
The problem is that the second best golfer has been eliminated from a competition, not for the quality of their play, but for a stupid, antiquated rule.

Throwing a punch vs. signing a score card is a fairly weak analogy. Throwing a punch at another golfer absolutely interferes with the game, it is destructive and the results of such an act setup advantages and disadvantages for some of the players. Signing a score card does nothing to affect game play or score, it does nothing to give an unnecessary advantage to another player.

I feel like signing the score card rule does nothing to maintain the spirit of the game, unless of course you are arguing that golf is all about honesty and score keeping.

[YmoBeThere]

golf is all about honesty and score keeping.

Played at the duffer level the honesty slides a little bit, at the professional level it is all about the honesty. See the NBA right now with the whole Donaghy mess, it impugns the integrity of the game. Also see gambling on your own team in baseball...

[2535Miles]

Played at the duffer level the honesty slides a little bit, at the professional level it is all about the honesty. See the NBA right now with the whole Donaghy mess, it impugns the integrity of the game. Also see gambling on your own team in baseball...
More bad analogies IMHO. The rules violations you cite change the outcome of the games. Wei did nothing to change the outcome of the game.

How does signing a score card maintain the integrity of the game?

[YmoBeThere]

How does signing a score card maintain the integrity of the game?

You are attesting that your score is accurate as reported. Otherwise, you could write any numbers you want in there, sign it and that could be your score(well not completely, but I am long rusty on my PGA rules since I stopped playing golf awhile back). The PGA governs lots of events, some of which don't have all of the coverage the big tournaments do(see the Nationwide tour), but the PGA rules apply to all PGA sanctioned events.

And while your point is true that not signing the card doesn't change the score a player achieves, by participating in the event you agree to follow the rules. And signing the card within the designated area is one of those rules.

BTW, there is no crying in baseball!

[2535Miles]

You are attesting that your score is accurate as reported. Otherwise, you could write any numbers you want in there, sign it and that could be your score(well not completely, but I am long rusty on my PGA rules since I stopped playing golf awhile back). The PGA governs lots of events, some of which don't have all of the coverage the big tournaments do(see the Nationwide tour), but the PGA rules apply to all PGA sanctioned events.

And while your point is true that not signing the card doesn't change the score a player achieves, by participating in the event you agree to follow the rules. And signing the card within the designated area is one of those rules.

BTW, there is no crying in baseball!
I whole heartedly believe in following rules especially if you're playing on the professional level. I agree with your point on the challenges the PGA face trying to manage multiple gophers', I mean golfers', scores. None of these change my opinion that it's still a stilly rule that could probably use an update.

Thanks for your insight!

[mapei]

In pro tournaments they have officials to keep score. There is no point to making the players do it.

[brevity]

Maybe the question we should be asking...

Should disqualification be the penalty for not signing a scorecard?

Personally, I think that nitpicky, technical rules have their place in sports, but they need not be so draconic. I wonder if, say, a 5-stroke penalty or something would be a better punishment than outright elimination.

[SoCalDukeFan]

This is a simple rule known to all of the pros and they follow it.

Except for the televised players there is probably no other way to have the scores attested. You can have a human scorer for each group, but that scorer could make a mistake.

My problem is that no official knew about this. It was pointed out by onlookers. Golf has gotta be the sport where that occurs.

In summary, its her fault, simple rule, she knew to follow it and did not. There are aspects to the enforcement that seem dumb to me.

SoCal

[mapei]

I think Duke BB players should have to sign the box score of the players they guarded and/or defended, within 5 minutes of the finish of every game. Federer should have to sign a card vouching for Nadal's score at the end of every match they play, and vice versa. Michael Phelps should have to sign a card confirming the time of his nearest opponent.

This has got to be the stupidest rule in sports.

[Jmac1970]

It does seem like a strange rule and likely dates back to the days when there was no TV coverage and tournaments were governed mostly by the players. In many cases each player in a twosome keeps the OTHER player's official score in order to maintain a sense of fair play. At the end of the round the player looks over the score and attests to its validity by signing it. There have been instances where a co player in the twosome has missed a score (written down a par instead of a birdie) and the actual player with that score did not catch the mistake. They signed for the card and while not DQ'd, they did have to accept a score that was one higher than what they actually shot.

I like the self-policing nature of golf. I like that there generally aren't officials that have to call "technicals" as it were. I am still waiting for some golfer to pull a "Hodge" and punch another golfer in the jimmies when no one is looking.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

This has got to be the stupidest rule in sports.

No, the stupidest rule in golf (and sports) is where a fan watching on TV can see a player commit a foul (that isn't self or otherwise called), call in to the network, have the infraction relayed to the golf tournament and get a penalty assessed to the player, usually AFTER he or she has signed a scorecard and get the player disqualified. For example, Curtis Strange putting a towel on the ground to protect his pants leg from wet, muddy ground when he had to hit a shot while kneeling, and then getting DQ'd the next day for "building a stance", which was clearly a violation that he didn't call on himself but wasn't his intention to begin with - he just wanted his pants to stay clean. If TV hadn't shown the "unique" shot, it never would have been a problem.

[hurleyfor3]

First off, we've had this topic before.

The concept is that the player is responsible for her own actions. I realize this may be an unfamiliar concept to many DBR posters, who don't care about golf if it doesn't involve Eldrick Woods or Michelle Wie. But the exact same rulebook applies at ALL levels, to ALL players, whether it's a club championship or the U.S. Open. There aren't "tournament rules" and "duffer rules"; technically speaking, any play submitted for a handicap should be played by the Rules as well.

Everyone knows what the rule is, and by all indications it was enforced evenly. I have no sympathy for Miss Wie.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/pdf/2008ROG.pdf

Those unfamilar with the issue at hand may wish to read the definitions of "marker" and "referee", as well as Rules 6-6 and 9-3.

[hurleyfor3]

For example, Curtis Strange putting a towel on the ground to protect his pants leg from wet, muddy ground when he had to hit a shot while kneeling, and then getting DQ'd the next day for "building a stance", which was clearly a violation that he didn't call on himself but wasn't his intention to begin with - he just wanted his pants to stay clean. If TV hadn't shown the "unique" shot, it never would have been a problem.

That was Craig Stadler, not Curtis Strange.

[cato]

First off, we've had this topic before.

The concept is that the player is responsible for her own actions. I realize this may be an unfamiliar concept to many DBR posters, who don't care about golf if it doesn't involve Eldrick Woods or Michelle Wie. But the exact same rulebook applies at ALL levels, to ALL players, whether it's a club championship or the U.S. Open. There aren't "tournament rules" and "duffer rules"; technically speaking, any play submitted for a handicap should be played by the Rules as well.

Everyone knows what the rule is, and by all indications it was enforced evenly. I have no sympathy for Miss Wie.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/pdf/2008ROG.pdf

Those unfamilar with the issue at hand may wish to read the definitions of "marker" and "referee", as well as Rules 6-6 and 9-3.

I find it odd, given your apparent distaste for things Tiger, that you bring him up in a thread that in no way involves him.

[hurleyfor3]

I find it odd, given your apparent distaste for things Tiger, that you bring him up in a thread that in no way involves him.

I am ambivalent towards Tiger -- ambivalence as distinct from indifference. What I find frustrating is the ceaseless uncritical affection heaped upon the Walking Nike Commercial by those who do not follow golf a whole lot. Anyway, this thread is not about him (and my post wasn't, either), a fact I will be happy to use my moderator powers to enforce.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Sigh...Wie is entering in a PGA event again (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/8364928?MSNHPHMA). I wish her the best in all her endeavors, but I really wish she would prove herself in the LPGA first. She needs a hell of a finish this year to avoid Q-school. I'm not being sexist here, I love when the women join the men, and one day one of them is going to make the cut. But I think Wie needs to keep her game focused, and playing the PGA does not lend itself to a focused atmosphere for her.

P.S. Just thought of this..you know what would be bizarre? If she actually did well next week, makes the cut, even gets a top 20 finish, and then still has to go to Q-school because she flops in her LPGA event. I'm thinking about using my magic powers to make it happen. Abracacadabra.

[Clipsfan]

There have been instances where a co player in the twosome has missed a score (written down a par instead of a birdie) and the actual player with that score did not catch the mistake. They signed for the card and while not DQ'd, they did have to accept a score that was one higher than what they actually shot.

Actually, I forget who had this happen, but someone was DQed for signing a scorecard which had a higher score than they actually shot. It had been their playing partner who wrote the scores. This was last year or a couple years ago and was a well-known player.

[hurleyfor3]

Actually, I forget who had this happen, but someone was DQed for signing a scorecard which had a higher score than they actually shot. It had been their playing partner who wrote the scores. This was last year or a couple years ago and was a well-known player.

Sergio was DQ'd at last year's PGA, but it was for signing a card with a lower score. (BTW, all that matter are the 18 individual hole scores. A math error in adding up the total is OK, as long as the individual holes are correct.)

In all cases the public is likely to come across, a player's marker is a fellow competitor.

The oft-given example of Roberto DeVincenzo in the '68 Masters was not a DQ. He signed for a higher score, which stood, but cost him the tournament.

[Mal]

The oft-given example of Roberto DeVincenzo in the '68 Masters was not a DQ. He signed for a higher score, which stood, but cost him the tournament.

What a stupid.

I'm sort of torn on this one but I shake out with hurleyfor3/YMo/Indoor66, despite the fact that in this case it's obviously an undesired result. Certainly, there are some trivial rules of golf that don't really have any logic to them, and some that are too unyielding and should allow for exceptions when circumstances warrant. But I like that the PGA and USGA expect the pros to follow the same standards as everyone not on television. Tournament organizers do not award a trophy to the person CBS shows as the winner, they award it to the person whose attested scorecards contain the lowest cumulative total strokes. Attesting to your own card is one of the most basic concepts of keeping score in golf, so to forget to do so before leaving the ropes is fairly inexcusable. Likewise with the Sergio thing last year - you keep track of your own score as well as your playing partner's; any discrepency should immediately surface when reviewing the two next to each other. I assume players can ask for assistance in the tent when that occurs. Personally, I'd have my caddy keeping score, too, and these days you could have him check the tournament leaderboard and look online before signing anything to make sure all the scores match up.