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airowe
09-17-2009, 09:29 AM
Regarding this whole idiotic "shoe connection" tangent...

UNCLE

Between this, Harrison Barnes wearing a Duke shirt in Cameron and a UNC shirt at Kenan, and Josh Selby's tug of Kyrie's shirt, there sure has been a lot of fashion talk during this recruiting season.

I blame Alexander Julian ;)

CMS2478
09-17-2009, 11:30 AM
Sorry to interrupt all the shoe and t-shirt talk with something about Harrison Barnes, but the UNC fanbase is all of sudden very confident about HB becoming a Heel and some are saying he might not even go to his official visit at Duke? Anybody hearing anything to confirm or squash this?

SupaDave
09-17-2009, 11:32 AM
With the relationship that K and HB have been developing I'm SURE they probably talked about his UNC weekend. I would even guess that K encouraged his attendence. K's not a hater at all.

As far as the MJ talk - well all that is really moot b/c I'm sure HB can get Lebron's AND Kobe's number right NOW without the help of anyone. Actually I'm quite sure he already has Lebron's number - this I know for a FACT.

yancem
09-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Sorry to interrupt all the shoe and t-shirt talk with something about Harrison Barnes, but the UNC fanbase is all of sudden very confident about HB becoming a Heel and some are saying he might not even go to his official visit at Duke? Anybody hearing anything to confirm or squash this?

I certainly hope that this is not true and would seem to be counter to Barnes' approach to the recruiting process. That being said, if he decides to commit (to anyone not just unc) prior to Duke's ov, then I think that it is time for K and his staff to take a long look at their recruiting strategy. That would make 3 years in a row that Duke's top target committed to another school without taking an ov to Duke.

I doubt that Barnes will commit prior to visiting Duke and/or Kansas but stranger things have happened.

airowe
09-17-2009, 11:44 AM
Sorry to interrupt all the shoe and t-shirt talk with something about Harrison Barnes, but the UNC fanbase is all of sudden very confident about HB becoming a Heel and some are saying he might not even go to his official visit at Duke? Anybody hearing anything to confirm or squash this?

Consider the source.

BlueintheFace
09-17-2009, 11:49 AM
Barnes will visit Duke. If he does not... dangerous rumblings will turn in to shouting I suspect.

I trust K and the staff know what they are doing. They have been doing it for awhile.

roywhite
09-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Sorry to interrupt all the shoe and t-shirt talk with something about Harrison Barnes, but the UNC fanbase is all of sudden very confident about HB becoming a Heel and some are saying he might not even go to his official visit at Duke? Anybody hearing anything to confirm or squash this?

What indicates that? Do you have source, or a link?

I try to keep with latest "news" on this front, and the consensus seems to be that HB's visit to UNC went well, but I've seen nothing to indicate he won't visit Duke, or has his mind made up.

trinity92
09-17-2009, 12:04 PM
I hope Harrison doesn't pick UNC because Jordan was there and Vince and all that stuff. Who cares? Sure, you might be a part of history I guess, but what a shallow reason to pick a school to play for.

I think we use history and the Duke tradition as a recruiting tool as much or more than any other program out there at present, although unlike our top competitors, especially UNC, we still have the same coach that created some of the best years of that tradition. I don't think we should call being a part of history a shallow reason to pick a school to play for, when it's one of our top selling points.

BlueintheFace
09-17-2009, 12:10 PM
I hate that I believe getting Barnes is soooo important for the program right now, but i do....

airowe
09-17-2009, 12:21 PM
What indicates that? Do you have source, or a link?

I try to keep with latest "news" on this front, and the consensus seems to be that HB's visit to UNC went well, but I've seen nothing to indicate he won't visit Duke, or has his mind made up.

Listen to Roy. White, not Williams. He knows what he's talking about.

Lord Ash
09-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Sorry to interrupt all the shoe and t-shirt talk with something about Harrison Barnes, but the UNC fanbase is all of sudden very confident about HB becoming a Heel and some are saying he might not even go to his official visit at Duke? Anybody hearing anything to confirm or squash this?

The guy who surprised Coach K on his birthday and, immediately after the UNC 100 year celebration, hosted a visit from K? Laughable, IMO.

airowe
09-17-2009, 12:26 PM
I hate that I believe getting Barnes is soooo important for the program right now, but i do....

Barnes is very important for the program, but we DO have a backup plan in Roscoe Smith, who the staff will be visiting tonight.

6th Man
09-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Should we miss out on Barnes....and land Kyrie Irving and Roscoe Smith.....we will be fine. If someone said we could have only Harrison Barnes or you could have Kyrie and Roscoe, I would take option 2. Granted I would love all 3, but Kyrie and Roscoe would be a heck of a haul.

jesus_hurley
09-17-2009, 12:46 PM
Sorry to interrupt all the shoe and t-shirt talk with something about Harrison Barnes, but the UNC fanbase is all of sudden very confident about HB becoming a Heel and some are saying he might not even go to his official visit at Duke? Anybody hearing anything to confirm or squash this?

I tend to believe if he was going to commit to UNC without taking any other OV's he would have done so when McAdoo did. By now some of the glitter and hype has worn off of the event, he has seen MJ's HOF speech and had a few other visitors come by to see him

Airowe posted this link in the 2010 recruiting thread:
http://fayobserver.com/Articles/2009/09/17/934526

It's a good read and there's a quote that sums this up pretty well:


"When a guy goes into a visit like that you naturally assume, to steal a political term, that there's going to be some sort of a bump," said Dave Telep, the national recruiting director for Scout. "And the reality is that Carolina gained a lot of ground. . But if a guy feels a certain way in September, is he going to feel that way in November? Is he going to feel that way in May if it winds up heading that way?"

North Carolina would love for Barnes' decision to come sooner rather than later. From Duke's perspective, the Devils want to use their in-home visit with Barnes and his official campus visit next month to lessen Carolina's momentum.

MChambers
09-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Isn't it amazing how the involvement of Carolina with Barnes makes his recruitment so much more of a focal point whereas a few weeks ago, most people I know were saying that Kyrie Irving is the most important recruit for Duke?(fingers crossed)
Seems to me that folks are getting awfully worked up about UNC's pursuit of Barnes. Barnes seems like a great person and a wonderful player, but he also seems like a perfect Duke fit. I'm still very optimistic that he'll choose Duke and I'm content to let this play out. He seems to have his head firmly on his shoulders and his priorities straight.

If he does choose Duke, it will be all the sweeter for UNC's attempt.

Moderators: feel free to move this post to the Barnes's thread. (so moved)

_Gary
09-18-2009, 09:32 AM
From the latest Front Page link on Barnes comes this all-important point, IMHO, on our recruitment of this kid:


Truthfully, while every team in the country could use a player of Barnes' caliber, the Blue Devils need him much more than the Tar Heels do. Particularly from a perception standpoint, Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski can ill afford to finish as also-rans in another high-profile recruitment.

It seems like we've been a bride's maid way too often recently, and I sincerely believe we simply cannot afford to lose this kid to anyone. Yes, it would sting even more if we lost him to Carolina, but the bigger picture for me is just that we can't afford to not land him. That will only perpetuate the perception (and if we lose him I'm not sure it could only be classified as a "perception" anymore) that we've lost something, recruitment wise and are unable to land the big fish when we need him.

Keeping my fingers crossed that we break this somewhat disappointing bride's maid streak with this kid. Does anyone else agree with that quote from the article?

Gary

airowe
09-18-2009, 10:24 AM
From the latest Front Page link on Barnes comes this all-important point, IMHO, on our recruitment of this kid:



It seems like we've been a bride's maid way too often recently, and I sincerely believe we simply cannot afford to lose this kid to anyone. Yes, it would sting even more if we lost him to Carolina, but the bigger picture for me is just that we can't afford to not land him. That will only perpetuate the perception (and if we lose him I'm not sure it could only be classified as a "perception" anymore) that we've lost something, recruitment wise and are unable to land the big fish when we need him.

Keeping my fingers crossed that we break this somewhat disappointing bride's maid streak with this kid. Does anyone else agree with that quote from the article?

Gary

I somewhat agree. But, to further your analogy, if we're going to continue to be brides' maids, I hope we can continue to pull some nice tail at the reception. (Roscoe Smith, Ryan Kelly, Kyle Singler, Greg Paulus, McBobs)...

SupaDave
09-18-2009, 11:06 AM
From the latest Front Page link on Barnes comes this all-important point, IMHO, on our recruitment of this kid:



It seems like we've been a bride's maid way too often recently, and I sincerely believe we simply cannot afford to lose this kid to anyone. Yes, it would sting even more if we lost him to Carolina, but the bigger picture for me is just that we can't afford to not land him. That will only perpetuate the perception (and if we lose him I'm not sure it could only be classified as a "perception" anymore) that we've lost something, recruitment wise and are unable to land the big fish when we need him.

Keeping my fingers crossed that we break this somewhat disappointing bride's maid streak with this kid. Does anyone else agree with that quote from the article?

Gary

So what are we when we get the unexpected recruits like Miles and Seth? Is that sloppy seconds? Don't make this stuff bigger than it is - cause you know losing out on 4 kids you covet totally negates the dozens of kids that you've gotten that you wanted...

smklin
09-18-2009, 11:46 AM
From the latest Front Page link on Barnes comes this all-important point, IMHO, on our recruitment of this kid:



It seems like we've been a bride's maid way too often recently, and I sincerely believe we simply cannot afford to lose this kid to anyone. Yes, it would sting even more if we lost him to Carolina, but the bigger picture for me is just that we can't afford to not land him. That will only perpetuate the perception (and if we lose him I'm not sure it could only be classified as a "perception" anymore) that we've lost something, recruitment wise and are unable to land the big fish when we need him.

Keeping my fingers crossed that we break this somewhat disappointing bride's maid streak with this kid. Does anyone else agree with that quote from the article?

Gary

I definitely agree. Frankly, I'm pretty nervous right now about the state of Duke recruiting. If we want to be able to continue to compete at the top level of college ball, we need to consistently (50-75% of the time) get our top targets each year. That just hasn't happened for the last 5 years.


So what are we when we get the unexpected recruits like Miles and Seth? Is that sloppy seconds? Don't make this stuff bigger than it is - cause you know losing out on 4 kids you covet totally negates the dozens of kids that you've gotten that you wanted...

Duke is going to be able to pick up the "4 kids you covet" types automatically just because of the name and stature of K and the program. We need to land the big ones.

_Gary
09-18-2009, 12:21 PM
So what are we when we get the unexpected recruits like Miles and Seth? Is that sloppy seconds? Don't make this stuff bigger than it is - cause you know losing out on 4 kids you covet totally negates the dozens of kids that you've gotten that you wanted...

I don't disagree with that at all. There's no doubt we are still pulling in studs and no one should say otherwise. What I think is that in order to consistently compete for national championships you have to be able to pull in a H-U-G-E class at least every once in a while. We know we aren't going to get every stud, at every position, each year. That's fine. But I think in order to really be at the highest level (like UNC has been for the last couple of years) you do have to land most, if not all, of your big top priority recruits every so often.

What's happened with us recently is that we've been able to get some great guys and some great classes, but we've missed on the one extra key guy that would have possibly put us over the top in the last several years. We need another H-U-G-E haul in order to kinda regain our footing, and I believe we need Barnes in order for that to happen next year. Otherwise we are going to be very, very good year in and year out (in comparison to other schools), but not have some of the elite teams we've been accustomed to in the past or seen UNC put on the court recently.

At some point we do need to assemble a full wedding party (to continue the analogy) where the Bride and all the Bride's Maids are super hot. Hope that came out right. :D

jv001
09-18-2009, 12:45 PM
I believe that Duke has missed on a couple of kids that could have possibly made us a Final Four and even maybe a Championship team. Those guys are; Patterson and Monroe. I know some are going to argue we needed the stud point guard, but I disagree. However I reaize that about 300 other schools missed on them also. Most of whom who never had a chance. Go Duke!

Duke of Nashville
09-18-2009, 12:50 PM
I don't disagree with that at all. There's no doubt we are still pulling in studs and no one should say otherwise. What I think is that in order to consistently compete for national championships you have to be able to pull in a H-U-G-E class at least every once in a while. We know we aren't going to get every stud, at every position, each year. That's fine. But I think in order to really be at the highest level (like UNC has been for the last couple of years) you do have to land most, if not all, of your big top priority recruits every so often.

What's happened with us recently is that we've been able to get some great guys and some great classes, but we've missed on the one extra key guy that would have possibly put us over the top in the last several years. We need another H-U-G-E haul in order to kinda regain our footing, and I believe we need Barnes in order for that to happen next year. Otherwise we are going to be very, very good year in and year out (in comparison to other schools), but not have some of the elite teams we've been accustomed to in the past or seen UNC put on the court recently.

At some point we do need to assemble a full wedding party (to continue the analogy) where the Bride and all the Bride's Maids are super hot. Hope that came out right. :D

I wouldn't deem Carolina's recent success as to them landing better recruits than us. McBob and GP were both ranked 1 in their position. Carolina's success was having great players stay 3-4 years, reaching their maximum potential.

COYS
09-18-2009, 01:05 PM
I wouldn't deem Carolina's recent success as to them landing better recruits than us. McBob and GP were both ranked 1 in their position. Carolina's success was having great players stay 3-4 years, reaching their maximum potential.

Which, I might add, was the result of luck just as much as it was the skill of Ol' Roy and his staff. And, as for players reaching their potential, that's only partially true. Ellington and Lawson would both most likely have been gone after either their freshman or sophomore years if they had been just a little bit better and gotten a first round guarantee from a team. Add in a DUI . . .

This is not to say that I don't wish that Duke had gotten Patterson and/or Monroe and doesn't meant that I don't dream of freshmen Kyrie Irving and Harrison Barnes suiting up in Duke with a senior Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith plus future 2011 lottery pick and super soph Mason Plumlee. That would be a championship caliber team, no doubt, and it would take a little luck to make that happen, as it always does.

UrinalCake
09-18-2009, 01:11 PM
...doesn't meant that I don't dream of freshmen Kyrie Irving and Harrison Barnes suiting up in Duke with a senior Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith plus future 2011 lottery pick and super soph Mason Plumlee.

(drools all over keyboard)

NSDukeFan
09-18-2009, 01:51 PM
I definitely agree. Frankly, I'm pretty nervous right now about the state of Duke recruiting. If we want to be able to continue to compete at the top level of college ball, we need to consistently (50-75% of the time) get our top targets each year. That just hasn't happened for the last 5 years.

Duke is going to be able to pick up the "4 kids you covet" types automatically just because of the name and stature of K and the program. We need to land the big ones.

Sorry, can't agree with you there. Yes, we missed on Kenny Boynton and John Wall last year and Greg Monroe the year before. And we did miss on Patrick Patterson the year before, but we did land a guy named Kyle Singler, the 6th ranked recruit in the country! The year before we missed on Brendan Wright, but did have G, the 10th ranked recruit (RSCI info by the way). And of course, the fifth year we had the top recruit (McBob). So, no that hasn't happened the last 5 years. We got our top target 2 out of the last 5 years. I actually don't know if Patterson would have been considered our top target or not but he didn't end up ranked as high and I wouldn't take him ahead of Kyle now, either.

So Duke get "the 4 kids you covet" types automatically!!! I bet you should go tell K, and the coaching staff that so that they can stop wasting their energy recruiting these kids. Maybe you could identify them for them so they could better use their resources. ;)

P.S. I am also drooling over COYS' scenario which also includes Dawkins, Curry and Ryan Kelly making up a ridiculous bench.

smklin
09-18-2009, 02:20 PM
i shouldn't have said "automatically". What i meant by that is that many of the top caliber recruits (top 150) are automatically going to be very interested in duke, and pursue that. what i was alluding to is what many people have already said, which is that duke needs a recruit that will be a difference-maker and be able to perform on the college stage. for a while during the 90's and early 2000's duke had an amazing system of getting great players and having them stick around and really develop into the program. i think that's fallen off a bit in the last few years.

SilkyJ
09-18-2009, 02:28 PM
i shouldn't have said "automatically". What i meant by that is that many of the top caliber recruits (top 150) are automatically going to be very interested in duke, and pursue that.

Ah, but Duke isn't interested in ~75% of the top 150, b/c a large chunk don't qualify academically and another large chunk don't have the right personality/character to fit in the program.


what i was alluding to is what many people have already said, which is that duke needs a recruit that will be a difference-maker and be able to perform on the college stage.

Kyle Singler and Gerald were/are both "difference makers" capable of "performing on the college stage," and we got 3 years out of G and at least 3 out of Kyle. I think thats pretty darn good.



for a while during the 90's and early 2000's duke had an amazing system of getting great players and having them stick around and really develop into the program. i think that's fallen off a bit in the last few years.

It gets really old reading the same posts year after year. The world has changed a lot since the 90s and earlier in the decade, and Duke is adapting to that. Before the Brand/Avery/Maggette exodus, Coach K NEVER had to deal with early entry to the L. Not one. Guys like Grant Hill, Hurley, Laettner all won championships and others like Ferry, Dawkins, and Parks all went to FFs and stuck around to get their degree and never really even considered going pro.

It was inevitable that this would catch up to us, we were just lucky that for a while others had to deal with that problem and we didn't. Now that has changed for us, and coach K is adapting to that challenge. He is expanding his recruiting net, bringing in more people at the same positions, etc. Now that has also hurt us a little b/c we have had to suffer through transfers. But year in and year out we are a top 10-15 team competing and oh btw we won more games this decade than any program EVER. EVER. So I think we're doing OK.

Let's remember guys, its not our birth right to be in the Final Four every year. We have an amazing program that is considered the poster-child for college student/athletes, is run by an amazing man, is 100% completely, absolutely clean, and is consistently a top 10 team EVERY year.

In Coach K we trust.

Duke of Nashville
09-18-2009, 02:42 PM
Ah, but Duke isn't interested in ~75% of the top 150, b/c a large chunk don't qualify academically and another large chunk don't have the right personality/character to fit in the program.



Kyle Singler and Gerald were/are both "difference makers" capable of "performing on the college stage," and we got 3 years out of G and at least 3 out of Kyle. I think thats pretty darn good.



It gets really old reading the same posts year after year. The world has changed a lot since the 90s and earlier in the decade, and Duke is adapting to that. Before the Brand/Avery/Maggette exodus, Coach K NEVER had to deal with early entry to the L. Not one. Guys like Grant Hill, Hurley, Laettner all won championships and others like Ferry, Dawkins, and Parks all went to FFs and stuck around to get their degree and never really even considered going pro.

It was inevitable that this would catch up to us, we were just lucky that for a while others had to deal with that problem and we didn't. Now that has changed for us, and coach K is adapting to that challenge. He is expanding his recruiting net, bringing in more people at the same positions, etc. Now that has also hurt us a little b/c we have had to suffer through transfers. But year in and year out we are a top 10-15 team competing and oh btw we won more games this decade than any program EVER. EVER. So I think we're doing OK.

Let's remember guys, its not our birth right to be in the Final Four every year. We have an amazing program that is considered the poster-child for college student/athletes, is run by an amazing man, is 100% completely, absolutely clean, and is consistently a top 10 team EVERY year.

In Coach K we trust.



Can the church get an Amen?

MChambers
09-18-2009, 02:49 PM
Amen!

smklin
09-18-2009, 02:52 PM
It gets really old reading the same posts year after year. The world has changed a lot since the 90s and earlier in the decade, and Duke is adapting to that. Before the Brand/Avery/Maggette exodus, Coach K NEVER had to deal with early entry to the L. Not one. Guys like Grant Hill, Hurley, Laettner all won championships and others like Ferry, Dawkins, and Parks all went to FFs and stuck around to get their degree and never really even considered going pro.

It was inevitable that this would catch up to us, we were just lucky that for a while others had to deal with that problem and we didn't. Now that has changed for us, and coach K is adapting to that challenge. He is expanding his recruiting net, bringing in more people at the same positions, etc. Now that has also hurt us a little b/c we have had to suffer through transfers. But year in and year out we are a top 10-15 team competing and oh btw we won more games this decade than any program EVER. EVER. So I think we're doing OK.

Let's remember guys, its not our birth right to be in the Final Four every year. We have an amazing program that is considered the poster-child for college student/athletes, is run by an amazing man, is 100% completely, absolutely clean, and is consistently a top 10 team EVERY year.

In Coach K we trust.

im sorry that you have to be the handler for all bad posts that show up on these boards. that must be a really hard job for you.

im not saying that duke should be in the final four every year. that would be an unfair assumption. however, our recent tournament history since the championship in 2001 (1 final four exit, 5 sweet 16 exits, 1 round of 32 exit, and one first round exit) does not reflect that we are a "top 10 team EVERY year" as you said. i think the difference for those teams has been the lack of a dynamic player to take charge and lead the team to a later round.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Let's remember guys, its not our birth right to be in the Final Four every year. We have an amazing program that is considered the poster-child for college student/athletes, is run by an amazing man, is 100% completely, absolutely clean, and is consistently a top 10 team EVERY year.



I'll even add an amen to this...

smklin
09-18-2009, 02:54 PM
in other news, irving has dropped indiana from his OV's! obviously, this is exciting, and i also think it's GREAT news for barnes too if the rumors about them wanting to play together are true.

airowe
09-18-2009, 02:55 PM
Ah, but Duke isn't interested in ~75% of the top 150, b/c a large chunk don't qualify academically and another large chunk don't have the right personality/character to fit in the program.



Kyle Singler and Gerald were/are both "difference makers" capable of "performing on the college stage," and we got 3 years out of G and at least 3 out of Kyle. I think thats pretty darn good.



It gets really old reading the same posts year after year. The world has changed a lot since the 90s and earlier in the decade, and Duke is adapting to that. Before the Brand/Avery/Maggette exodus, Coach K NEVER had to deal with early entry to the L. Not one. Guys like Grant Hill, Hurley, Laettner all won championships and others like Ferry, Dawkins, and Parks all went to FFs and stuck around to get their degree and never really even considered going pro.

It was inevitable that this would catch up to us, we were just lucky that for a while others had to deal with that problem and we didn't. Now that has changed for us, and coach K is adapting to that challenge. He is expanding his recruiting net, bringing in more people at the same positions, etc. Now that has also hurt us a little b/c we have had to suffer through transfers. But year in and year out we are a top 10-15 team competing and oh btw we won more games this decade than any program EVER. EVER. So I think we're doing OK.

Let's remember guys, its not our birth right to be in the Final Four every year. We have an amazing program that is considered the poster-child for college student/athletes, is run by an amazing man, is 100% completely, absolutely clean, and is consistently a top 10 team EVERY year.

In Coach K we trust.

Silky,

Can I use this as my signature?

Amen!

SupaDave
09-18-2009, 03:15 PM
in other news, irving has dropped indiana from his OV's! obviously, this is exciting, and i also think it's GREAT news for barnes too if the rumors about them wanting to play together are true.

Wait a second... Link please...

Faison1
09-18-2009, 03:23 PM
Wait a second... Link please...

You're kidding, right? If I may quote all the moderators, "Look at the Kyrie Irving Thread!" J/K:)

airowe
09-18-2009, 03:26 PM
You're kidding, right? If I may quote all the moderators, "Look at the Kyrie Irving Thread!" J/K:)

I'm guessing Supa was referring to the rumors of Kyrie and Harrison wanting to play together... I've heard it so many times, but can't seem to find a credible link. Zags even asked Kyrie's father about it recently...

Duke of Nashville
09-18-2009, 04:32 PM
I'm guessing Supa was referring to the rumors of Kyrie and Harrison wanting to play together... I've heard it so many times, but can't seem to find a credible link. Zags even asked Kyrie's father about it recently...

Blue Devil Nation had a premium article up in regards to an interview they had with Kyrie Irving. Limited resources has prevented me to invest such money on a premium site, thus resulting in an incredible dedication to DBR : ), but the interview asks KI about HB, which probably would provide us with even more speculation...Dare I ask a certain individual...

http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/08/kyrie-irving-talks-of-his-final-list-recruiting-and-hoops-in-general/

airowe
09-18-2009, 04:47 PM
Blue Devil Nation had a premium article up in regards to an interview they had with Kyrie Irving. Limited resources has prevented me to invest such money on a premium site, thus resulting in an incredible dedication to DBR : ), but the interview asks KI about HB, which probably would provide us with even more speculation...Dare I ask a certain individual...

http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/08/kyrie-irving-talks-of-his-final-list-recruiting-and-hoops-in-general/

I'm thinking his response would be something like this:

http://www.mpbonline.org/radio/programs/MoneyTalks/images/Money%20Talks%20web.jpg

Duke of Nashville
09-18-2009, 04:56 PM
I'm thinking his response would be something like this:

http://www.mpbonline.org/radio/programs/MoneyTalks/images/Money%20Talks%20web.jpg

No Doubt.

_Gary
09-18-2009, 05:39 PM
Often times it seems like it's so hard to get a point across on internet boards without it being misunderstood or mischaracterized. I'm not saying UNC has been better the last couple of years because they got better ranked recruits coming out of the gates. The point about them keeping a nucleus around for sophomore and junior seasons most assuredly helped them. I'm also not suggesting we aren't getting great, top-ranked players. We are. I was only suggesting that in order to compete for national titles I think you need, every once in a while, to get the mega-huge haul in of recruits that are key for your program.

The fact that we got a great player in Kyle one year, or Gerald another year, or whoever else, doesn't negate the fact that you need quality at 5 positions on the court, not just one. So every once in a while, if you really plan on competing for national titles consistently (and no, that's not our birthright, but we should be always striving for it) you have to get all the key recruits in a particular class, not just 1 out of 2 or even 2 out of 3. Once in a while you need to get all 3 of the key recruits you are going after. I know that's not going to happen very often, but I think while we have had some great recruiting hits recently, we've also missed some KEY recruits at KEY positions for a particular year. If you get a great point guard yet already have a senior in that position then it's great, but it might not be quite as important as landing the big man when you don't have a great one playing for you already. That's why the misses of Patterson and Monroe were key misses even though we did get great players at other positions those years. Same with missing Wall this year. It's big because we needed a player at that particular spot and we seemed to be in the race right till the end (like with Patterson and Monroe). I just would like to see us come out on the winning end of the Barnes recruitment because he's going to be a key component if we are to contend for a title in 2011. Can we contend without him? Sure. But we can contend better with him. Just my two cents.

Devils Rock
09-18-2009, 06:29 PM
Gary-

great points all around. I tend to vacillate between being a doubter and believer when it comes to all of the Duke recruiting angst that takes place on the boards. However, one point that you make that I think is particularly accurate is that we do need to bring out good players at each position. I don't think we need to get all of our top picks in any given year at all. However, it is important to assemble high-level players over the course of 2-3 recruiting years in order to compete for a championship. One thing that I have thought about over the years is how the JJ-Shelden teams really suffered from this dilemna. JJ and Shel were two of the all-time greats in a Duke Uniform, but most of the teams they on played lacked great depth and there was a huge drop-off between those two and the rest of the starting five. As such, it was clockwork that every year in the tourney a team would put their top athletic defender on JJ and give him fits and the team went as JJ went.
Unlike some here, I don't think Duke is on its way to perpetual mediocrity. I think as long as we can land a top-ten recruit every year (giving us realistically three at any one time on the team) and a good supporting cast, we'll be fine.

ACCBBallFan
09-19-2009, 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by COYS View Post
...doesn't meant that I don't dream of freshmen Kyrie Irving and Harrison Barnes suiting up in Duke with a senior Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith plus future 2011 lottery pick and super soph Mason Plumlee.

Not a bad group of backups either:

Irving/Thornton/Curry

Smith/Curry/Dawkins

Barnes/Dawkins/Kelly

Singler/Kelly/Hairston

Mason/Miles/ Hairston

with Czyz/Peters in reserve to dunk during garbage time

Faison1
09-20-2009, 09:01 AM
I'm sure everyone has seen this interview with Harrison, but I just watched it for the first time. It's on the right side of the page, and listed under "Our Favorites". I've seen quite a few interviews with the young man, always been impressed, but after watching this one, I will be SHOCKED and seriously depressed if he doesn't go to Duke.

I mean, that guy is the blueprint for Duke All-American. I can't think of ANY UNC players in the same mold, but I can think of quite a few that speak in a similar mannor who suited up in Duke Blue. Maybe someone can give me a few names of First-Team All-Americans who spoke like that and went to Carolina.....(not trying to be snotty, just trying to remember.....I've respected quite a few Tarholes).

Anyway, here is the interview:

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2009/08/12/2010-on-the-horizon/

sandinmyshoes
09-24-2009, 07:33 AM
I have a few UNC fans as friends, something that is inescapable if you live in North Carolina. They became much more confident following the alumni game. The two of them are among the more reasonable UNC fans I've met, at no time did they proclaim UNC a leader, but that they had pulled even.

Now, however, they seem to think the UNC interest from Barnes might have flattened a bit. If we are the last official visit, I feel very good about this.

airowe
09-24-2009, 07:40 AM
I have a few UNC fans as friends, something that is inescapable if you live in North Carolina. They became much more confident following the alumni game. The two of them are among the more reasonable UNC fans I've met, at no time did they proclaim UNC a leader, but that they had pulled even.

Now, however, they seem to think the UNC interest from Barnes might have flattened a bit. If we are the last official visit, I feel very good about this.

The fact that Harrison Barnes hasn't committed anywhere yet should make everyone over here feel better.

This will be an intelligent decision, not an emotional one.

phillyheel
09-24-2009, 09:33 AM
This will be an intelligent decision, not an emotional one.

Personally I hope he does make a non-emotional decision because I believe that if he followed his heart he would have picked Duke last Spring. Of course there is a very good chance he'll still pick Duke based on intellectual factors, but I think it would be the only way he would pick UNC.

roywhite
09-24-2009, 10:50 AM
Personally I hope he does make a non-emotional decision because I believe that if he followed his heart he would have picked Duke last Spring. Of course there is a very good chance he'll still pick Duke based on intellectual factors, but I think it would be the only way he would pick UNC.


Okay, phillyheel, I'll bite...

What do you believe makes UNC the better choice for HB from a reasonable standpoint, or "based on intellectual factors" as you say?

BD80
09-24-2009, 11:26 AM
Okay, phillyheel, I'll bite...

What do you believe makes UNC the better choice for HB from a reasonable standpoint, or "based on intellectual factors" as you say?

Ooh, Wheat isn't the only heel on this board that can set a hook deep :D

airowe
09-24-2009, 11:32 AM
Personally I hope he does make a non-emotional decision because I believe that if he followed his heart he would have picked Duke last Spring. Of course there is a very good chance he'll still pick Duke based on intellectual factors, but I think it would be the only way he would pick UNC.

Thanks for completely misrepresenting my post. I was not saying he would make his decision based on "intellectual factors" rather an intelligent decision. Barnes has been methodical and careful with his recruitment and will make his decision not on "wow factor" but on several factors.

While I personally feel K and Duke are a better fit for Barnes and vice versa, it is obviously subjective.

Barnes' decision will be smart because it will be his, and he's done his due dilligence, wherever he chooses to play.

BlueintheFace
09-24-2009, 11:48 AM
Lets set up as exhaustive a list as possible of criteria that an intelligent recruit might use in making a logical decision about his college choice. Pick a team for each category- Duke or UNC

Intellectual Breakdown: No Emotions Allowed


Quality of Coaching:

SubCategory: Offense

SubCategory: Defense

SubCategory: Communication

NBA Opportunity:

SubCategory: Draft Placement

SubCategory: NBA Salaries (relates to quality of coaching in College

SubCategory: Number of NBA Players

Role on Team:

Subcategory: Depth/Competition at Preferred Position

SubCategory: Offensive System

Chances at NCAA Championship (relates to NBA):

Which Culture is Best Fit:

Academic Opportunity:

Venue

Facilities

National Media Exposure

...anything I am missing? Have at it Heels. I would like to see your analysis. Duke fans too. Try to put yourself in Harrison's shoes (so perception matters).

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 12:57 PM
Lets set up as exhaustive a list as possible of criteria that an intelligent recruit might use in making a logical decision about his college choice. Pick a team for each category- Duke or UNC

Intellectual Breakdown: No Emotions Allowed


Quality of Coaching:

SubCategory: Offense

SubCategory: Defense

SubCategory: Communication

NBA Opportunity:

SubCategory: Draft Placement

SubCategory: NBA Salaries (relates to quality of coaching in College

SubCategory: Number of NBA Players

Role on Team:

Subcategory: Depth/Competition at Preferred Position

SubCategory: Offensive System

Chances at NCAA Championship (relates to NBA):

Which Culture is Best Fit:

Academic Opportunity:

Venue

Facilities

National Media Exposure

...anything I am missing? Have at it Heels. I would like to see your analysis. Duke fans too. Try to put yourself in Harrison's shoes (so perception matters).

If I was HB, I would not be thinking about the number of players a school had sent to the league in the past, or how much money they're currently making--at best, those are tangential to my own prospects, and probably irrelevant. Both programs are on national TV all the time. Both coaches have extensive NBA connections.

My list would look more like this:

Academics
Chance for a title in my first or second year
Player development (will I play my NBA position?)
Exposure/PT
Relationship with the coach
Tradition / "brand"
Campus/facilities

Exposure:
I think HB would start at either school, but might average a few more minutes at Duke. That might be offset somewhat by UNC's faster pace, but probably not entirely. Both programs are on national TV all the time.

Player development:
I don't think HB is going to play shooting guard at either school (unless Henson stays 2 years and proves capable of playing the 3), but I also don't think it's much of a transition to go from college 3 to NBA 2. UNC definitely has an advantage in the conditioning/strength department, but again, HB is NBA-ready right now, so that probably doesn't matter all that much.

Chances at a title:
On paper, UNC has more committed talent, but neither team is done recruiting and, under the most optimistic scenarios, Duke could wind up with more elite talent.

Academics:
Duke's higher USNWR ranking may be offset somewhat by UNC's top 10 undergrad business program. It depends on whether HB cares more about the courses he'll take or the overall ranking of the institution.

Campus:
I doubt campus facilities will make much of a difference, but I think UNC's practice facility is nicer. The Dome is more like an NBA arena, but CIS is truly special.

Coaching relationship:
Who knows. UNC has made up ground, but Duke got there first.

Brand/tradition:
Here is where most of the intangibles come into play. Both schools have great basketball traditions, but I think most would give UNC an advantage in that department (more titles, Jordan, etc.). I think most of us have a pretty clear sense of our program's respective brand image, and it's really apples & oranges: big old public school vs. smaller, newer, elite private school. You can fill in the rest, I'm sure.

I don't know if I'll get in trouble for mentioning this, but I'll throw it out there anyway because I think people are sometimes overly reluctant to talk about race: Duke is very white. By my count (from the team photo), the current squad has 10 white guys to just 4 African-Americans, and I challenge anyone to find a top-10 team (since the Rupp years) that is as white. That said, I don't know if that will make any difference to HB--it would to some black players, but since he lives in Iowa, maybe not.

I guess the ultimate point is that, despite the big image differences between the programs, it's hard to point to really big advantages in terms of coaching, NBA exposure, etc. No wonder he's having a hard time deciding. The good thing (for him) is that he really can't go wrong either way.

slower
09-24-2009, 01:06 PM
If I was HB, I would not be thinking about the number of players a school had sent to the league in the past, or how much money they're currently making--at best, those are tangential to my own prospects, and probably irrelevant. Both programs are on national TV all the time. Both coaches have extensive NBA connections.

My list would look more like this:

Academics
Chance for a title in my first or second year
Player development (will I play my NBA position?)
Exposure/PT
Relationship with the coach
Tradition / "brand"
Campus/facilities

Exposure:
I think HB would start at either school, but might average a few more minutes at Duke. That might be offset somewhat by UNC's faster pace, but probably not entirely. Both programs are on national TV all the time.

Player development:
I don't think HB is going to play shooting guard at either school (unless Henson stays 2 years and proves capable of playing the 3), but I also don't think it's much of a transition to go from college 3 to NBA 2. UNC definitely has an advantage in the conditioning/strength department, but again, HB is NBA-ready right now, so that probably doesn't matter all that much.

Chances at a title:
On paper, UNC has more committed talent, but neither team is done recruiting and, under the most optimistic scenarios, Duke could wind up with more elite talent.

Academics:
Duke's higher USNWR ranking may be offset somewhat by UNC's top 10 undergrad business program. It depends on whether HB cares more about the courses he'll take or the overall ranking of the institution.

Campus:
I doubt campus facilities will make much of a difference, but I think UNC's practice facility is nicer. The Dome is more like an NBA arena, but CIS is truly special.

Coaching relationship:
Who knows. UNC has made up ground, but Duke got there first.

Brand/tradition:
Here is where most of the intangibles come into play. Both schools have great basketball traditions, but I think most would give UNC an advantage in that department (more titles, Jordan, etc.). I think most of us have a pretty clear sense of our program's respective brand image, and it's really apples & oranges: big old public school vs. smaller, newer, elite private school. You can fill in the rest, I'm sure.

I don't know if I'll get in trouble for mentioning this, but I'll throw it out there anyway because I think people are sometimes overly reluctant to talk about race: Duke is very white. By my count (from the team photo), the current squad has 10 white guys to just 4 African-Americans, and I challenge anyone to find a top-10 team (since the Rupp years) that is as white. That said, I don't know if that will make any difference to HB--it would to some black players, but since he lives in Iowa, maybe not.

I guess the ultimate point is that, despite the big image differences between the programs, it's hard to point to really big advantages in terms of coaching, NBA exposure, etc. No wonder he's having a hard time deciding. The good thing (for him) is that he really can't go wrong either way.

So in your analysis, UNC seems to come out on top. WOW! That's a real shocker, isn't it?

wilko
09-24-2009, 01:06 PM
I'd think you could break down "facilities" to a more granular level to differentiate between Basketball facilities and medical facilities....

Maybe its bad form to invite the injury bug... but the way Jasons leg was saved, Brand and Boozers feet were handled could definately be spun as assets to overcome injuires and setbacks. Not sure that many places could pull that off.


FIW-
I have often thought that using a motion capture suit to digitally document a specific players range of motion, movement habits, ect could be a useful tool in terms of deciding therapy treatments for that player.

You could show YTY changes/improvements for a player... how valuable might that be to an NBA scout? Not sure.. wonder if they have such data currently available.

Over time, with enuff baseline player data compiled, I suppose you could tailor a fitness plan/workout regime that most accurately reflects successful players based on this data. Perhaps even use it as a lens for recruiting.

or perhaps I just have to much free time to worry about such things

BlueintheFace
09-24-2009, 01:27 PM
Academics
Chance for a title in my first or second year
Player development (will I play my NBA position?)
Exposure/PT
Relationship with the coach
Tradition / "brand"
Campus/facilities

Exposure:
I think HB would start at either school, but might average a few more minutes at Duke. That might be offset somewhat by UNC's faster pace, but probably not entirely. Both programs are on national TV all the time.

You can call it a push, but Duke is on national television more and pretty consistently gets more attention from the major sports outlets (ESPN, SI, CBSsportsline).


Player development:
I don't think HB is going to play shooting guard at either school (unless Henson stays 2 years and proves capable of playing the 3), but I also don't think it's much of a transition to go from college 3 to NBA 2. UNC definitely has an advantage in the conditioning/strength department, but again, HB is NBA-ready right now, so that probably doesn't matter all that much.

HB will play the wing guard spot at Duke (Think Gerald Henderson). There is literally NOBODY that will be in front of him to take playing time at that spot. This is not true at Carolina.

What are you talking about with strength and conditioning? Please tell me you haven't jumped on the Jaredadams IC bandwagon. That would seriously discredit your opinion as I'm sure you know. I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that one program has a better conditioning program than another.


Chances at a title:
On paper, UNC has more committed talent, but neither team is done recruiting and, under the most optimistic scenarios, Duke could wind up with more elite talent.

I also believe this is a push, or more accurately, unclear at this point. If perception is what is important, I would give a slight advantage to Carolina.


Academics:
Duke's higher USNWR ranking may be offset somewhat by UNC's top 10 undergrad business program. It depends on whether HB cares more about the courses he'll take or the overall ranking of the institution.

Just don't. Duke is a top tier academic institution and it's greatest academic strengths are producing doctors and putting Econ grads in top level busines opportunities. There is literally a pipeline from Duk's Econ department to Wall Street. College is what you make of it, but if you look at what graduates actually do from both programs, Carolina comes in 2nd.

That being said, I think the business interest stuff is waaaaaaaay overblown. He won't stay around long enough to get truly trained in "business" at either school, and if he does, the fact that One school opens more doors in the business world than the other doesn't matter because he will open 10 times more doors through the NBA.


Campus:
I doubt campus facilities will make much of a difference, but I think UNC's practice facility is nicer. The Dome is more like an NBA arena, but CIS is truly special.

Duke's Campus itself is nicer. Chapel Hill is better for social aspects. Duke basketball facilities were literally JUST finished. Carolina would have won this category over the last 10 years, but Duke (for now) has one of the best in the entire country since it was just built. That's just how it works though. When a new facility is built, it is state of the art for a few years and then it ages and other schools re-up and builder better/newer ones. It's cyclical, but Duke takes this one.


Coaching relationship:
Who knows. UNC has made up ground, but Duke got there first.

Agreed, who knows.


Brand/tradition:
Here is where most of the intangibles come into play. Both schools have great basketball traditions, but I think most would give UNC an advantage in that department (more titles, Jordan, etc.). I think most of us have a pretty clear sense of our program's respective brand image, and it's really apples & oranges: big old public school vs. smaller, newer, elite private school. You can fill in the rest, I'm sure.

Agreed if you think a recruit would look at entire history of a program. Slight edge to Carolina.


I don't know if I'll get in trouble for mentioning this, but I'll throw it out there anyway because I think people are sometimes overly reluctant to talk about race: Duke is very white. By my count (from the team photo), the current squad has 10 white guys to just 4 African-Americans, and I challenge anyone to find a top-10 team (since the Rupp years) that is as white. That said, I don't know if that will make any difference to HB--it would to some black players, but since he lives in Iowa, maybe not.

I agree that this team is very white and the reality is that these things do matter to recruits. However, this year is almost an anomaly in terms of ratio.

Next year, the ratio will be entirely different anyways with a few commits. Frankly, I don't think Harrison cares coming from Ames, Iowa.

all of that being said... I think my criteria is more comprehensive, while yours seems to cherry pick the ones you perceive to be favorable for Carolina from mine.

shoutingncu
09-24-2009, 01:27 PM
This is going to be tough, and far from intellectual


"Lets set up as exhaustive a list as possible of criteria that an intelligent recruit might use in making a logical decision about his college choice. Pick a team for each category- Duke or UNC"

Intellectual Breakdown: No Emotions Allowed


Quality of Coaching:

SubCategory: Offense

Duke plays offense?
(sorry)

See below (offensive systems)


SubCategory: Defense

Duke, no brainer. But Roy is quick to point out that his teams lack defensive intensity, and any player that steps up as a defensive force makes the team that much better.

SubCategory: Communication

I'll plead ignorance and call this a toss-up. I know Duke prides itself on communication. I can only assume from the results that Carolina does too.


NBA Opportunity:

SubCategory: Draft Placement

Toss up; Both get players drafted in the lottery. North Carolina has had more the last few years, Duke certainly has more currently (see below). If this is the criteria, can't go wrong at either school.

SubCategory: NBA Salaries (relates to quality of coaching in College

See below


SubCategory: Number of NBA Players

I believe this is objectively Duke's to claim, but I believe the total number of NBA players from both schools favors North Carolina. The salaries issue is a direct result of the current crop of players who have had multiple contracts. That's not a fair talking point. Of course Duke's players from multiple Final Four teams are making more than Carolina's players from the same 8-20 period. Let's see where Felton and M.Williams are in a few years. Let's see if McCants makes something of himself, or Sean May, well, nevermind.

Adding my own sub-category: NBA Champions

You may value the money Duke players are making. Others may judge success another way.


Role on Team:

Subcategory: Depth/Competition at Preferred Position

Duke has been one deep at nearly every position (quality wise) for years. That may, in fact, be a factor in the post season and conditioning down the stretch.

Carolina under Roy has gone with the notion that the starting five may or may not be the best, but the second five is better than yours. It hasn't hurt recruiting, and as you know, a non-starter was the second draft pick in '05 and a non-starter was projected lottery this past year. If a recruit is to look at things objectively, yes, he will likely get more playing time at Duke, but the quality of minutes he'd get at Carolina should make up for that.


SubCategory: Offensive System

North Carolina - High Octane, Run Run Run

(One of my problems with Duke basketball is that for years, no matter how quickly you get the ball to midcourt (fast breaks aside), you very quickly turn to stall ball, or as it was called pre-shot clock, four corners. Duke does this either half, with a lead or without-- I say all this as a preemptive response to "Duke likes to run, too")

Chances at NCAA Championship (relates to NBA):

North Carolina, though if Duke lands a high quality point guard, the addition of a top recruit like Mr. Barnes would make it closer to a toss-up than I'd like to admit.

But North Carolina has a core in place already, maybe not championship caliber, but very competitive. Duke is still missing pieces to have a nucleus. Maybe a recruit wants to be the missing piece to make a competitive team, maybe he wants to join an existing force.

Which Culture is Best Fit:

Toss up, subjective; but if you're looking for social culture, many Duke students migrate to Franklin Street, and our co-eds speak for themselves, or Matt Doherety speaks for them.


Academic Opportunity:

Duke, but Carolina's no slouch, and actually has a highly ranked undergraduate business program.

Venue

Duke, but again, subjective. Yes, Cameron is special and unique, but some people might prefer grandeur. Duke plays on tv all the time (see below), Carolina plays in front of 20,000 people live.

Facilities

Toss up (again ignorance). I'd have to assume both are state-of-the-art

National Media Exposure

Toss up, Carolina is on TV for nearly every game, too.

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 01:29 PM
So in your analysis, UNC seems to come out on top. WOW! That's a real shocker, isn't it?

Funny how varied interpretations can be. I gave Duke the advantages of Cameron, overall academic ranking, playing time, and having recruited HB earlier. I give UNC the advantage of b-ball tradition, our strength & conditioning program, and having a top undergrad business major. Most of the rest is either a wash, or apples/oranges. IMO, it's hard to say how that equates to a UNC advantage, and I am, at best, cautiously optimistic about UNC's chances with him. It clearly could go either way, and the only thing that would surprise me is if he chose a school outside of the triangle.

phillyheel
09-24-2009, 01:31 PM
I think people are reading way too much into what I posted. My only point was that I think HB's heart lies with Duke and the only way he picks UNC is if he decides to make a business/logical/intellectual decision, or whatever you want to call it, that happens to favor UNC. As I stated previously that could just as likely be Duke as well.

slower
09-24-2009, 01:41 PM
Funny how varied interpretations can be. I gave Duke the advantages of Cameron, overall academic ranking, playing time, and having recruited HB earlier. I give UNC the advantage of b-ball tradition, our strength & conditioning program, and having a top undergrad business major. Most of the rest is either a wash, or apples/oranges. IMO, it's hard to say how that equates to a UNC advantage, and I am, at best, cautiously optimistic about UNC's chances with him. It clearly could go either way, and the only thing that would surprise me is if he chose a school outside of the triangle.

interpretations ARE varied. Maybe it's just me, but maybe not.

Oh, and you forgot "the race card" in your "I gave Duke the advantages" comments. Although, I guess one could flip it the other way and say that Durham's a more multicultural community than Chapel Hill.

airowe
09-24-2009, 01:53 PM
You can call it a push, but Duke is on national television more and pretty consistently gets more attention from the major sports outlets (ESPN, SI, CBSsportsline).



HB will play the wing guard spot at Duke (Think Gerald Henderson). There is literally NOBODY that will be in front of him to take playing time at that spot. This is not true at Carolina.

What are you talking about with strength and conditioning? Please tell me you haven't jumped on the Jaredadams IC bandwagon. That would seriously discredit your opinion as I'm sure you know. I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that one program has a better conditioning program than another.



I also believe this is a push, or more accurately, unclear at this point. If perception is what is important, I would give a slight advantage to Carolina.



Just don't. Duke is a top tier academic institution and it's greatest academic strengths are producing doctors and putting Econ grads in top level busines opportunities. There is literally a pipeline from Duk's Econ department to Wall Street. College is what you make of it, but if you look at what graduates actually do from both programs, Carolina comes in 2nd.

That being said, I think the business interest stuff is waaaaaaaay overblown. He won't stay around long enough to get truly trained in "business" at either school, and if he does, the fact that One school opens more doors in the business world than the other doesn't matter because he will open 10 times more doors through the NBA.



Duke's Campus itself is nicer. Chapel Hill is better for social aspects. Duke basketball facilities were literally JUST finished. Carolina would have won this category over the last 10 years, but Duke (for now) has one of the best in the entire country since it was just built. That's just how it works though. When a new facility is built, it is state of the art for a few years and then it ages and other schools re-up and builder better/newer ones. It's cyclical, but Duke takes this one.



Agreed, who knows.



Agreed if you think a recruit would look at entire history of a program. Slight edge to Carolina.



I agree that this team is very white and the reality is that these things do matter to recruits. However, this year is almost an anomaly in terms of ratio.

Next year, the ratio will be entirely different anyways with a few commits. Frankly, I don't think Harrison cares coming from Ames, Iowa.

all of that being said... I think my criteria is more comprehensive, while yours seems to cherry pick the ones you perceive to be favorable for Carolina from mine.

I would like to do research here, but BlueInTheFace said everything I'd like except:

Player Development:

K has put wayyyy more wings in the League than Roy has and prepared them for success. This has been well documented in this thread and other places, I'll leave it at that. This relates to NBA as well.

And please, give me a break on the race thing. It makes you look ignorant. Players are players, white or black doesn't matter. If you want to get into it, the ratio will be a lot different in 2010:

Nolan, Andre, Seth, Tyler Thornton, Josh Hairston
Mason Plumlee, Miles Plumlee, Kelly, Czyz

Possibles: Singler, Kyrie

But, that doesn't matter.

jws
09-24-2009, 02:24 PM
I don't know if I'll get in trouble for mentioning this, but I'll throw it out there anyway because I think people are sometimes overly reluctant to talk about race: Duke is very white. By my count (from the team photo), the current squad has 10 white guys to just 4 African-Americans, and I challenge anyone to find a top-10 team (since the Rupp years) that is as white.


I can think of at least three different Rick Majerus teams at Utah that were top ten at some time in the year, and that, if anything, had even fewer blacks on their roster.

On the 1998 Utah team that played in the National Championship game, Andre Miller is the only black player I can recall getting significant minutes, and I think he might have been the only black player on the entire team.

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 02:29 PM
You can call it a push, but Duke is on national television more and pretty consistently gets more attention from the major sports outlets (ESPN, SI, CBSsportsline).



HB will play the wing guard spot at Duke (Think Gerald Henderson). There is literally NOBODY that will be in front of him to take playing time at that spot. This is not true at Carolina.

What are you talking about with strength and conditioning? Please tell me you haven't jumped on the Jaredadams IC bandwagon. That would seriously discredit your opinion as I'm sure you know. I have never seen or heard anything to indicate that one program has a better conditioning program than another.



I also believe this is a push, or more accurately, unclear at this point. If perception is what is important, I would give a slight advantage to Carolina.



Just don't. Duke is a top tier academic institution and it's greatest academic strengths are producing doctors and putting Econ grads in top level busines opportunities. There is literally a pipeline from Duk's Econ department to Wall Street. College is what you make of it, but if you look at what graduates actually do from both programs, Carolina comes in 2nd.

That being said, I think the business interest stuff is waaaaaaaay overblown. He won't stay around long enough to get truly trained in "business" at either school, and if he does, the fact that One school opens more doors in the business world than the other doesn't matter because he will open 10 times more doors through the NBA.



Duke's Campus itself is nicer. Chapel Hill is better for social aspects. Duke basketball facilities were literally JUST finished. Carolina would have won this category over the last 10 years, but Duke (for now) has one of the best in the entire country since it was just built. That's just how it works though. When a new facility is built, it is state of the art for a few years and then it ages and other schools re-up and builder better/newer ones. It's cyclical, but Duke takes this one.



Agreed, who knows.



Agreed if you think a recruit would look at entire history of a program. Slight edge to Carolina.



I agree that this team is very white and the reality is that these things do matter to recruits. However, this year is almost an anomaly in terms of ratio.

Next year, the ratio will be entirely different anyways with a few commits. Frankly, I don't think Harrison cares coming from Ames, Iowa.

all of that being said... I think my criteria is more comprehensive, while yours seems to cherry pick the ones you perceive to be favorable for Carolina from mine.

1) ESPN covers a couple more Duke games, but I live in CA and I have no trouble watching all but the most trivial nonconference UNC games (gardner-webb games, etc.). There is really no denying that UNC has been a more visible program in the past five years.

2) HB would start at UNC. It's unclear whether that moves Bullock or Strickland to the bench, but he would start for any team in the nation. No one is in front of him at UNC, but like I said, I would expect him to get a few more minutes per game at Duke since Roy has more depth and plays a deeper bench. So I do give Duke the advantage here.

3) Duke has a higher USNWR ranking. It is an elite institution with a different mission than UNC. For these reasons, its first year students, on average, arrive on campus with higher test scores and are better prepared for college than UNC first-years. If you want to credit the institution for good recruiting, it's not unreasonable, but I tend to focus on influence rather than selection effects (e.g., the value-added produced by the institution). Those waters are murkier. I am good friends with a number of faculty at both institutions, and they will all say that the gap is less clear when you're talking about faculty quality, and has to be evaluated on a program-by-program basis.

but ultimately, perceptions do matter, and Duke's advantage in that regard is not negated by UNC's specific advantage with their undergrad B-school program (and FTR, business is not the same as econ--as any economist will tell you). However, I agree with your bottom line--HB could major in macrame and succeed in business and the NBA.

4) Duke has a great tradition, but I think UNC's edge is more than slight, given the number of titles and that we won them under 3 different coaches. But I hardly expect anyone here to agree.

5) As far as title talent goes, it's more than perception. Carolina has more 4 and 5-star players on board (for the relevant year or two), at this moment, than does Duke. But like I said, neither team is done recruiting, and that could change.

6) I don't want to overblow the role that a strength and conditioning program plays in HB's decision (probably slim to none), but UNC's program is among the best. If you saw Deon Thompson, Wayne Ellington, or Danny Green play in high school, you'd acknowledge a remarkable improvement in strength, quickness, and leaping ability over their time at UNC, and our guys give a lot of credit to Jonas. And while it may not matter much to HB, it does matter a lot--some pros drop five and six figures on their trainers annually. Again, this would only matter if HB were either heavy or (as is more common) too thin--but he's already got an NBA body, so it's not going to matter. I'm just arguing to argue.

7) I didn't realize y'all had upgraded your practice facilities. I'll concede that point.

8) race: we must tread lightly here, but it's more than this year. Duke has been very white the last few years. I saw somewhere that if you only recruited HS players in the top 50, the likelihood of arriving at Duke's demographic makeup by chance alone was on the order of 0.001. But once again, I agree that it probably won't matter to HB (and as long as we're talking race, I must acknowledge that a certain goofy white guy has been the face of UNC for the past 4 years).

9) campus. it's in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the historic and crescive nature of UNC's campus, and find Duke's gaudy. But I see with Carolina blue eyes, and will acknowledge that Duke's campus draws more tourists each year.

10) Note that even though I argue for UNC's advantage on a couple of issues, I also am careful to note that they probably do not matter much to HB. I'm crunching some numbers, and just feel like arguing. But now my models have run, and I must go. Back later.

ChicagoCrazy84
09-24-2009, 02:38 PM
If Duke was recruiting some kid from Harlem who never left his neighborhood, to play PG, then maybe it would lead to some sort of discofort from him. However, someone mentioned it before, HB is coming from Ames, IA. I don't think he will put a whole lot of stock in it. I really don't think HB would feel any discomfort at all around campus, especially if Kyrie was around with Andre, Josh, Seth, Tyler, etc. Don't forget about Chris Carrawell and Nate James as well. The Duke basketball program is as diverse as any.

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 02:45 PM
And please, give me a break on the race thing. It makes you look ignorant. Players are players, white or black doesn't matter. If you want to get into it, the ratio will be a lot different in 2010:

Nolan, Andre, Seth, Tyler Thornton, Josh Hairston
Mason Plumlee, Miles Plumlee, Kelly, Czyz

Possibles: Singler, Kyrie

But, that doesn't matter.

And I think it's ignorant to pretend race doesn't matter. It *shouldn't matter, and it *might matter less when we're talking about basketball teams, but it can and does make a difference to some players (though I agree that HB may not be one of them). To pretend otherwise is foolish.

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 02:47 PM
I can think of at least three different Rick Majerus teams at Utah that were top ten at some time in the year, and that, if anything, had even fewer blacks on their roster.

On the 1998 Utah team that played in the National Championship game, Andre Miller is the only black player I can recall getting significant minutes, and I think he might have been the only black player on the entire team.

You're right--I should have excluded teams from the state of Utah!

SupaDave
09-24-2009, 02:48 PM
Just for the record and to get back to things more relevant - you don't have to look very far for MOST minorities in the triangle.

roywhite
09-24-2009, 02:49 PM
And I think it's ignorant to pretend race doesn't matter. It *shouldn't matter, and it *might matter less when we're talking about basketball teams, but it can and does make a difference to some players (though I agree that HB may not be one of them). To pretend otherwise is foolish.

And how does it matter here?

What is your point?

Duke of Nashville
09-24-2009, 02:50 PM
But North Carolina has a core in place already, maybe not championship caliber, but very competitive. Duke is still missing pieces to have a nucleus. Maybe a recruit wants to be the missing piece to make a competitive team, maybe he wants to join an existing force.

Please elaborate on this one...

Last time I checked:

Duke is returning four starters.

UNC lost three starters with TL, WE, and TH.

jws
09-24-2009, 03:03 PM
I think that by far, the main criterion for any blue chipper is the coach.

Do I like the coach? Do I like the way he treats me, my family, his players, staff and others? Can I trust him? How does his coaching philosophy and style of play, both offensively and defensively, fit with my game and vice versa? How much do I think playing in this program, for this coach, can/will improve my game, help me to mature and prepare me for the next level?

From there, academics can play a role, depending on what a given player is looking for, but both Duke and Carolina are excellent schools, so I doubt it's a very large factor for HB.

I don't think basketball/training facilities make much difference, because all big-time programs have very good facilities.

The players already there and the players that he knows will be coming there can have affect the decision for some blue-chippers, positively or negatively, but I think HB's already demonstrated he likes the players from both programs, so I doubt it will be a biggie for him.

Bottom line, I think HB will base his decision on which program he thinks will best allow him to grow, mature and improve as a basketball player and give him the best chance of excelling at the next level, while challenging for conference and national championships.

shoutingncu
09-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Please elaborate on this one...

Last time I checked:

Duke is returning four starters.

UNC lost three starters with TL, WE, and TH.


Four starters with Dancin' Danny Green, but this is looking at 2011, correct?

North Carolina's core for 2011, at present and as I understand it, is rated higher than what Duke has lined up... Of course, that very well could change this weekend if a certain point guard tweets his choice.

Duke of Nashville
09-24-2009, 04:10 PM
Four starters with Dancin' Danny Green, but this is looking at 2011, correct?

North Carolina's core for 2011, at present and as I understand it, is rated higher than what Duke has lined up... Of course, that very well could change this weekend if a certain point guard tweets his choice.



You are right, I was not thinking

How about this potential nucleus in 2010/2011:

G's:Nolan Smith/Kyrie Irving/Tyler Thornton/Seth Curry/Andre Dawkins

F's:Kyle Singler/Harrison Barnes/Joshua Hairston/Ryan Kelley/MPI/MPII/Olek

NM Duke Fan
09-24-2009, 04:42 PM
I think that by far, the main criterion for any blue chipper is the coach.

Do I like the coach? Do I like the way he treats me, my family, his players, staff and others? Can I trust him? How does his coaching philosophy and style of play, both offensively and defensively, fit with my game and vice versa? How much do I think playing in this program, for this coach, can/will improve my game, help me to mature and prepare me for the next level?

From there, academics can play a role, depending on what a given player is looking for, but both Duke and Carolina are excellent schools, so I doubt it's a very large factor for HB.

I don't think basketball/training facilities make much difference, because all big-time programs have very good facilities.

The players already there and the players that he knows will be coming there can have affect the decision for some blue-chippers, positively or negatively, but I think HB's already demonstrated he likes the players from both programs, so I doubt it will be a biggie for him.

Bottom line, I think HB will base his decision on which program he thinks will best allow him to grow, mature and improve as a basketball player and give him the best chance of excelling at the next level, while challenging for conference and national championships.

An excellent summary, well-thought out. And as you state at the outset, perhaps the key will indeed be the head coach and to some degree the staff.

shoutingncu
09-24-2009, 05:07 PM
You are right, I was not thinking

How about this potential nucleus in 2010/2011:

G's:Nolan Smith/Kyrie Irving/Tyler Thornton/Seth Curry/Andre Dawkins

F's:Kyle Singler/Harrison Barnes/Joshua Hairston/Ryan Kelley/MPI/MPII/Olek

Oh, there's no doubt that Coach K is trying to put together a banner class, and if the top pieces fall into place (and stay in place, Mr. Singler), then Duke is looking very, very good.

But Harrison might not have all the information when making his decision, and thus, Carolina's commitments versus Duke's question marks could be an objective factor. Now, I don't think they are. I was merely responding to the NCAA Championship Chances aspect of the two teams. As of right now, Carolina has a leg up on its class. Just how much of a leg up is obviously going to change, and can even be overturned.

Incidentally, count me in the group that thinks the single biggest factor in the decision will come down to the relationship between the recruit and the coach and/or team, so I will continue to assume that HB will end up at Duke until IC tells me otherwise.

airowe
09-24-2009, 05:15 PM
Oh, there's no doubt that Coach K is trying to put together a banner class, and if the top pieces fall into place (and stay in place, Mr. Singler), then Duke is looking very, very good.

But Harrison might not have all the information when making his decision, and thus, Carolina's commitments versus Duke's question marks could be an objective factor. Now, I don't think they are. I was merely responding to the NCAA Championship Chances aspect of the two teams. As of right now, Carolina has a leg up on its class. Just how much of a leg up is obviously going to change, and can even be overturned.

Incidentally, count me in the group that thinks the single biggest factor in the decision will come down to the relationship between the recruit and the coach and/or team, so I will continue to assume that HB will end up at Duke until IC tells me otherwise.

Brownie had some interesting things to say today, speaking of IC...

Back to your post, the dominoes should start falling next week. We'll see how our lineup looks then. This Barnes saga won't be over till after all the visits. That should give plenty of time for the rest to fall...

Saratoga2
09-24-2009, 05:34 PM
I stayed off the board this summer to give it a rest. Recruiting is so up and down, especially with the number of big misses the last few years. I am just waiting under we actually get commitments before getting all enthusiastic. At least there are good possibilities. Looking forward to the season.

BlueintheFace
09-24-2009, 07:44 PM
1) ESPN covers a couple more Duke games, but I live in CA and I have no trouble watching all but the most trivial nonconference UNC games (gardner-webb games, etc.). There is really no denying that UNC has been a more visible program in the past five years.

2) HB would start at UNC. It's unclear whether that moves Bullock or Strickland to the bench, but he would start for any team in the nation. No one is in front of him at UNC, but like I said, I would expect him to get a few more minutes per game at Duke since Roy has more depth and plays a deeper bench. So I do give Duke the advantage here.

3) Duke has a higher USNWR ranking. It is an elite institution with a different mission than UNC. For these reasons, its first year students, on average, arrive on campus with higher test scores and are better prepared for college than UNC first-years. If you want to credit the institution for good recruiting, it's not unreasonable, but I tend to focus on influence rather than selection effects (e.g., the value-added produced by the institution). Those waters are murkier. I am good friends with a number of faculty at both institutions, and they will all say that the gap is less clear when you're talking about faculty quality, and has to be evaluated on a program-by-program basis.

but ultimately, perceptions do matter, and Duke's advantage in that regard is not negated by UNC's specific advantage with their undergrad B-school program (and FTR, business is not the same as econ--as any economist will tell you). However, I agree with your bottom line--HB could major in macrame and succeed in business and the NBA.

4) Duke has a great tradition, but I think UNC's edge is more than slight, given the number of titles and that we won them under 3 different coaches. But I hardly expect anyone here to agree.

5) As far as title talent goes, it's more than perception. Carolina has more 4 and 5-star players on board (for the relevant year or two), at this moment, than does Duke. But like I said, neither team is done recruiting, and that could change.

6) I don't want to overblow the role that a strength and conditioning program plays in HB's decision (probably slim to none), but UNC's program is among the best. If you saw Deon Thompson, Wayne Ellington, or Danny Green play in high school, you'd acknowledge a remarkable improvement in strength, quickness, and leaping ability over their time at UNC, and our guys give a lot of credit to Jonas. And while it may not matter much to HB, it does matter a lot--some pros drop five and six figures on their trainers annually. Again, this would only matter if HB were either heavy or (as is more common) too thin--but he's already got an NBA body, so it's not going to matter. I'm just arguing to argue.

7) I didn't realize y'all had upgraded your practice facilities. I'll concede that point.

8) race: we must tread lightly here, but it's more than this year. Duke has been very white the last few years. I saw somewhere that if you only recruited HS players in the top 50, the likelihood of arriving at Duke's demographic makeup by chance alone was on the order of 0.001. But once again, I agree that it probably won't matter to HB (and as long as we're talking race, I must acknowledge that a certain goofy white guy has been the face of UNC for the past 4 years).

9) campus. it's in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the historic and crescive nature of UNC's campus, and find Duke's gaudy. But I see with Carolina blue eyes, and will acknowledge that Duke's campus draws more tourists each year.

10) Note that even though I argue for UNC's advantage on a couple of issues, I also am careful to note that they probably do not matter much to HB. I'm crunching some numbers, and just feel like arguing. But now my models have run, and I must go. Back later.

1) Visibility is probably a threshold issue. Duke, Carolina, Kansas and a few more all cross that threshold for recruits. Duke has the advantage otherwise. Carolina fans don't call it DSPN for nothing...

2) Agreed again. Point is now made.

3) I already said this is probably null, but you are right. Duke wins.

4) Tradition is also a threshold issue. Duke and Carolina both cross it easily.

5) Actually, you appear to be wrong. Dawkins, Mason Plumlee, Kelly, Hairston, Thornton, Singler, Miles Plumlee, Nolan Smith, and likely Kyrie Irving will all be on board. That is 9 four or five star players.

6) What??? Duke has a great strength and conditioning coach. Who's to say one is better than the other. Kyle Singler and Brian Zoubek (to give two recent examples) have put on 20+ pounds in their time at Duke.

7) Yep.

8) Look at the team Barnes would be joining if you HAVE TO look at race. That kind of makes your point moot.

9) The point has been made and agreed to. Duke's gothic architecture and CIS win.

10) GTHC

Wheat/"/"/"
09-24-2009, 08:28 PM
HB says we will know next month after all his visits........

"I'm feeling confident what I once thought would be a regular signing period decision now will be an early signing period decision," he continued. "It has been humbling to see the support the six programs have shown me over the past year"

InsideCarolina link. (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/902562.html)

airowe
09-24-2009, 08:42 PM
Better Link:

http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/902653.html

Wheat/"/"/"
09-24-2009, 08:51 PM
Better Link:

http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/902653.html

I stand corrected :)

airowe
09-24-2009, 08:57 PM
I stand corrected :)

;) The color scheme is much better in mine...

chrisheery
09-24-2009, 09:45 PM
I have heard this a few times from various sources, but those sources are almost always Carolina fans.

The number you gave as the likelihood of getting the team we have if you were to simply recruit from the top 50-100 players is of course silly. This is almost always the case with statistics. In your scenario, you, like almost all Carolina fans (and other Duke hater fans) either refuse to recognize or can't conceive of the fact that Duke has higher academic standings than the schools against which it is competing for these recruits. As with everything else, it is cyclical what race those students might be in a given year. For instance, in 2010, 2 of our top choices as basketball players, who also happen to be ideal Duke students, happen to be black. We cannot pick who will be a good student and what color they will be. All Duke can do is try to stick to recruiting good STUDENT-ATHLETES.

If you re-run your numbers of the top 50 or even 100 high school male basketball players, and remove the ones who do not qualify for Duke academically, I bet the likelihood of our current team being assembled as it is goes up drastically.

Of course, we understand why Carolina fans or Kentucky fans would rather call this racism. They are not bound by the same constraints of academic integrity.

(I'd like to make clear that I do not mean this to sound like one race of athlete is more likely to be a good student than another. I simply mean that Duke has to recruit who they can, and if they happen to be black or white, Duke cannot control that.)

Wheat/"/"/"
09-24-2009, 10:40 PM
...the fact that Duke has higher academic standings than the schools against which it is competing for these recruits. As with everything else, it is cyclical what race those students might be in a given year. All Duke can do is try to stick to recruiting good STUDENT-ATHLETES.
... I simply mean that Duke has to recruit who they can, and if they happen to be black or white, Duke cannot control that.)

I won't even get into any racism crap, because I don't see any here and never have. Coach K would have no problem with an all black team if that's how it happened to work out with recruiting.

But I will have to challenge the idea that Dukes standards are so much higher than everyone elses, and that Duke "has to recruit who they can".

From what I gather, I'd say we don't have to look any farther back than the John Wall recruitment to find an example that the University's academic standards are flexible and fall right in line with other major schools when it comes to 5 star recruits getting offers.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong?

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 10:45 PM
I have heard this a few times from various sources, but those sources are almost always Carolina fans.

The number you gave as the likelihood of getting the team we have if you were to simply recruit from the top 50-100 players is of course silly. This is almost always the case with statistics. In your scenario, you, like almost all Carolina fans (and other Duke hater fans) either refuse to recognize or can't conceive of the fact that Duke has higher academic standings than the schools against which it is competing for these recruits. As with everything else, it is cyclical what race those students might be in a given year. For instance, in 2010, 2 of our top choices as basketball players, who also happen to be ideal Duke students, happen to be black. We cannot pick who will be a good student and what color they will be. All Duke can do is try to stick to recruiting good STUDENT-ATHLETES.

If you re-run your numbers of the top 50 or even 100 high school male basketball players, and remove the ones who do not qualify for Duke academically, I bet the likelihood of our current team being assembled as it is goes up drastically.

Of course, we understand why Carolina fans or Kentucky fans would rather call this racism. They are not bound by the same constraints of academic integrity.

(I'd like to make clear that I do not mean this to sound like one race of athlete is more likely to be a good student than another. I simply mean that Duke has to recruit who they can, and if they happen to be black or white, Duke cannot control that.)

1) I disagree that Duke has any higher admissions standards for its players than does Carolina. I seem to recall some embarrassing SAT averages for varsity athletes published in your student newspaper a couple years ago. If you have some evidence that things have changed and that Duke requires higher GPAs or SAT scores than UNC, I'd love to see it. As far as I know, Stanford is the only "strong" (I use the term loosely) basketball school with truly rigorous academic requirements.

2) You contradict yourself when you say both a) that removing all the marginal students from the recruiting pool would make it look like Duke's current team and b) that white athletes are not better students, on average.

3) If it was a one-year thing, it wouldn't bear mentioning. But white players have been heavily overrepresented (given their proportion in the top 50 recruiting pool) at Duke for several years now. They may also be overrepresented at UNC, but not to the same degree.

4) I never called it racism.

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 10:51 PM
1) Visibility is probably a threshold issue. Duke, Carolina, Kansas and a few more all cross that threshold for recruits. Duke has the advantage otherwise. Carolina fans don't call it DSPN for nothing...

2) Agreed again. Point is now made.

3) I already said this is probably null, but you are right. Duke wins.

4) Tradition is also a threshold issue. Duke and Carolina both cross it easily.

5) Actually, you appear to be wrong. Dawkins, Mason Plumlee, Kelly, Hairston, Thornton, Singler, Miles Plumlee, Nolan Smith, and likely Kyrie Irving will all be on board. That is 9 four or five star players.

6) What??? Duke has a great strength and conditioning coach. Who's to say one is better than the other. Kyle Singler and Brian Zoubek (to give two recent examples) have put on 20+ pounds in their time at Duke.

7) Yep.

8) Look at the team Barnes would be joining if you HAVE TO look at race. That kind of makes your point moot.

9) The point has been made and agreed to. Duke's gothic architecture and CIS win.

10) GTHC

ha ha. OK, you're right. All arrows point to Duke, and there is no way Harrison Barnes could go anywhere else.

chrisheery
09-24-2009, 10:54 PM
2) You contradict yourself when you say both a) that removing all the marginal students from the recruiting pool would make it look like Duke's current team and b) that white athletes are not better students, on average.



4) I never called it racism.


2) No I don't. As stated, it is a yearly issue. Our team falls the way it does based on the players available in the years of recruiting leading to this. I am not making a blanket statement for years to come or years prior. I am only saying that this is the team we have based on what happened in recruiting with the recruiting standards for athletes (in general) that are in place.

4) You don't have to say something outright to suggest it clearly.

To answer the other points:

- I agree John Wall does not meet Duke's standards.
- I agree that Duke occasionally has guys that bring down averages (Sean Dockery for instance) and make the team seem more like other teams.

However, these are both the exception, not the rule. Wall was a bit of a desperation move. We do not know how the final decisions were made. However, it is not impossible that, in the end, Duke gave up on Wall (and Bledsoe) because they would not be granted admission by Duke's separate admissions committee.

The instance of low GPAs and SATs is also an exception. While the basketball team generally is not going to have the same academic standards as the rest of the undergraduate student body, they are held to a higher standard than most other universities.

Perhaps the shot at Carolina was wrong and I apologize. I can't back up that gut feeling with numbers, so I will pull back from that argument. I will not pull back from it with regard to Memphis, Kentucky, UConn and many others.

FireOgilvie
09-24-2009, 11:04 PM
1) I disagree that Duke has any higher admissions standards for its players than does Carolina. I seem to recall some embarrassing SAT averages for varsity athletes published in your student newspaper a couple years ago. If you have some evidence that things have changed and that Duke requires higher GPAs or SAT scores than UNC, I'd love to see it. As far as I know, Stanford is the only "strong" (I use the term loosely) basketball school with truly rigorous academic requirements.

2) You contradict yourself when you say both a) that removing all the marginal students from the recruiting pool would make it look like Duke's current team and b) that white athletes are not better students, on average.

3) If it was a one-year thing, it wouldn't bear mentioning. But white players have been heavily overrepresented (given their proportion in the top 50 recruiting pool) at Duke for several years now. They may also be overrepresented at UNC, but not to the same degree.

4) I never called it racism.

Coach K recruited guys like Monroe, Patterson, Wall, Boynton, etc. and they chose not to come to Duke. If they show up, the "complexion" of Duke's team changes. They chose not to. It would be different if Coach K exclusively recruited white guys.

Keep in mind that Duke has to recruit players that can succeed academically at Duke. At every state school, there are ridiculously easy majors that anyone that does their work can pass. I know people that have taken these classes. They are a complete joke. The easiest majors (a relative term) at Duke are still mostly made up of people with 1400+ SATs that had 3.9-4.0 GPAs in high school.

eightyearoldsdude
09-24-2009, 11:10 PM
2) No I don't. As stated, it is a yearly issue. Our team falls the way it does based on the players available in the years of recruiting leading to this. I am not making a blanket statement for years to come or years prior. I am only saying that this is the team we have based on what happened in recruiting with the recruiting standards for athletes (in general) that are in place.

4) You don't have to say something outright to suggest it clearly.

To answer the other points:

- I agree John Wall does not meet Duke's standards.
- I agree that Duke occasionally has guys that bring down averages (Sean Dockery for instance) and make the team seem more like other teams.

However, these are both the exception, not the rule. Wall was a bit of a desperation move. We do not know how the final decisions were made. However, it is not impossible that, in the end, Duke gave up on Wall (and Bledsoe) because they would not be granted admission by Duke's separate admissions committee.

The instance of low GPAs and SATs is also an exception. While the basketball team generally is not going to have the same academic standards as the rest of the undergraduate student body, they are held to a higher standard than most other universities.

Perhaps the shot at Carolina was wrong and I apologize. I can't back up that gut feeling with numbers, so I will pull back from that argument. I will not pull back from it with regard to Memphis, Kentucky, UConn and many others.

2. Yes, you do. It's not a one-year thing, but even if it was, your statements would still be contradictory.

4. If you lack imagination, it might seem like overt racism is the only explanation for this demographic distribution.

5. I agree that both UNC and Duke have higher academic standards than the schools you mentioned. But I think the difference between us and them has more to do with crossing t's, dotting i's, and doing due diligence regarding phony diplomas and shady test scores, rather than requiring substantially higher minimum scores or grades. And that's as it should be--as long as those academically mediocre athletes are held to the same standard as other students once they matriculate.

Anyway, this is a really interesting issue, but it's also really tangential to the Barnes recruitment. If someone wants to continue it in another thread, I'll play along (tomorrow), but otherwise we should probably get back to reading tea leaves.

jesus_hurley
09-24-2009, 11:18 PM
Harrison Barnes



Better Link:

http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/902653.html


How many athletes - any sport - talk like this?


"Initially not knowing what to expect while orchestrating the in-home and official visit schedules I didn't want to confine myself into making a fall decision without having adequate time to process all the information," Barnes said.

"I'm feeling confident what I once thought would be a regular signing period decision now will be an early signing period decision," he continued. "It has been humbling to see the support the six programs have shown me over the last year."

FireOgilvie
09-24-2009, 11:20 PM
Harrison Barnes





How many athletes - any sport - talk like this?

Not enough.

Azdukefan
09-24-2009, 11:38 PM
So did I hear it right, Harrison is going to sign in the early period? I to need to interrupt this debate (which by the way has no merit and is typical of anyone outside of the Duke family to stake claim to racism within the best program on the planet):)! I have friends that always say, "so are you going to recruit any nonwhite players?" What a joke! Anyways, we get the Harrison OV when and the early period ends when? These next few months we might sign two of the best players to ever don a Duke uniform. Life is good in Durham!

SupaDave
09-25-2009, 07:48 AM
A few posts having nothing to do with Harrison Barnes have been deleted. Please let's try and keep this remotely related to HB.

flyingdutchdevil
09-25-2009, 08:26 AM
These next few months we might sign two of the best players to ever don a Duke uniform. Life is good in Durham!

Wa wa we wa.... lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Sure they're really good, but Duke has produced a mighty fine list of players who could be considered some of the "best players to ever don a Duke uniform."

That said, I really like Barnes and pray every night before I do to bed that he comes to Duke. This is a player that I really feel will be at Duke for at least 2 years (he will be the Blake Griffin of SG/SF). However, please don't get fooled by players saying they want to stay all 4 years - they say it, but rarely mean it. Remember Luol - he promised multiple times that he was going to graduate at Duke and the lure of the NBA was just too much.

airowe
09-25-2009, 08:37 AM
So did I hear it right, Harrison is going to sign in the early period? Anyways, we get the Harrison OV when and the early period ends when? These next few months we might sign two of the best players to ever don a Duke uniform. Life is good in Durham!

Harrison Barnes

In-Home: October 5th
Official Visit: October 23rd

We are his last Official Visit and last in-home. He takes an unofficial visit after us to Iowa State, which is right down the street from his house and where his Mom works.

Early Signing Period goes from November 11 to November 18. It's going to be a big week!

ChicagoCrazy84
09-25-2009, 10:21 AM
This is good news. I don't think I would be able to wait until the end of his basketball season, which was originally the case. Good move though on his part, you've seen all the schools and there's plenty of time between his last visit and the end of the early signing period to make a solid decision. No reason to pull a Lance Stephenson.

Azdukefan
09-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Wa wa we wa.... lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Sure they're really good, but Duke has produced a mighty fine list of players who could be considered some of the "best players to ever don a Duke uniform."

That said, I really like Barnes and pray every night before I do to bed that he comes to Duke. This is a player that I really feel will be at Duke for at least 2 years (he will be the Blake Griffin of SG/SF). However, please don't get fooled by players saying they want to stay all 4 years - they say it, but rarely mean it. Remember Luol - he promised multiple times that he was going to graduate at Duke and the lure of the NBA was just too much.

I never stated they were going to be four year guys. I simply stated I think they could be some of the greats to ever play in Cameron. JWill let after three years and I don't think anyone would deny his greatness. Of course I would like them to stay four years but I would bet against it in both cases. However, I do want them to come and increase our chances at hanging a fourth banner so I guess wa wa wa wa wa wa right back.

airowe
09-25-2009, 02:12 PM
I never stated they were going to be four year guys. I simply stated I think they could be some of the greats to ever play in Cameron. JWill let after three years and I don't think anyone would deny his greatness. Of course I would like them to stay four years but I would bet against it in both cases. However, I do want them to come and increase our chances at hanging a fourth banner so I guess wa wa wa wa wa wa right back.

I think it was "wa wa wee wa"

http://cientifica.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/borat-flag-770131.jpg

Azdukefan
09-25-2009, 02:25 PM
I seriously did not know what he was alluding to (and still don't) but if it has anything to do with the brilliance of Sacha Baron Cowen (sp?) I will retract and thank you for the kind words sir (FDD). To make it relevant, I will simply say that having Kyrie and Harrison start at the Duke University will make my life much more fulfilled!

BD80
09-25-2009, 02:37 PM
I seriously did not know what he was alluding to (and still don't) but if it has anything to do with the brilliance of Sacha Baron Cowen (sp?) I will retract and thank you for the kind words sir (FDD). To make it relevant, I will simply say that having Kyrie and Harrison start at the Duke University will make my life much more fulfilled!

Borat?

Is he that 6'11' amphibious shooting guard out of Kazakistan that shaves his arm pits to avoid getting caught in the rim on his dunks? I hear there are questions regarding his amateur status: he doesn't get paid to play, but he does get paid to wear a new generation skintight fabric while he plays. He also performs at halftime.

Tim1515
09-25-2009, 03:54 PM
Wa wa we wa.... lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Sure they're really good, but Duke has produced a mighty fine list of players who could be considered some of the "best players to ever don a Duke uniform."

That said, I really like Barnes and pray every night before I do to bed that he comes to Duke. This is a player that I really feel will be at Duke for at least 2 years (he will be the Blake Griffin of SG/SF). However, please don't get fooled by players saying they want to stay all 4 years - they say it, but rarely mean it. Remember Luol - he promised multiple times that he was going to graduate at Duke and the lure of the NBA was just too much.

I agree that there is no guarantee Barnes will stay for 3 or 4 years...it is nothing like the Deng situation. Luol's family was in a bad situation and i believe asked him to take the money. Barnes won't be asked to make that decision.

tommy
09-25-2009, 04:45 PM
I agree that there is no guarantee Barnes will stay for 3 or 4 years...it is nothing like the Deng situation. Luol's family was in a bad situation and i believe asked him to take the money. Barnes won't be asked to make that decision.

Sometimes "needing the money" has nothing to do with it. That fact has been discussed at length on the boards, usually by invoking the example of Mike Dunleavy, Jr.

SupaDave
09-25-2009, 07:48 PM
The NBA is very much a "when the iron is hot" kinda place but a lot about Harrison's character reminds me of Dwayne Wade - a 4 year guy. I'll be happy to have him for one year regardless b/c he'll remain a player I will follow. He's Durant "like" in that aspect of his game and personality.

FireOgilvie
09-25-2009, 08:46 PM
The NBA is very much a "when the iron is hot" kinda place but a lot about Harrison's character reminds me of Dwayne Wade - a 4 year guy. I'll be happy to have him for one year regardless b/c he'll remain a player I will follow. He's Durant "like" in that aspect of his game and personality.

Dwyane Wade left after his junior year, and was academically ineligible to play his freshman year because he couldn't qualify. He only played 2 seasons. I think I see what you mean about Wade leaving "when the iron is hot" though. His stock was very high after he led his team to the Final Four.

Also, with Barnes being the number 1 rated player, he's a lot more high profile than Wade.

miramar
09-27-2009, 12:25 PM
The NBA is very much a "when the iron is hot" kinda place but a lot about Harrison's character reminds me of Dwayne Wade - a 4 year guy. I'll be happy to have him for one year regardless b/c he'll remain a player I will follow. He's Durant "like" in that aspect of his game and personality.

For what it's worth, Jerry Meyer at Rivals expects Barnes to be a one and done, so if we are fortunate enough to have him at Duke, it might only be for one season.

Scroll down to the One or the other?, although they are discussing UNC:

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=993738

Even though he may be a short timer, fairly or unfairly it seems that people are seeing Barnes as a litmus test for Duke's recruiting.

yancem
09-27-2009, 07:32 PM
For what it's worth, Jerry Meyer at Rivals expects Barnes to be a one and done, so if we are fortunate enough to have him at Duke, it might only be for one season.

Scroll down to the One or the other?, although they are discussing UNC:

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=993738

Even though he may be a short timer, fairly or unfairly it seems that people are seeing Barnes as a litmus test for Duke's recruiting.

I'm always a little hesitant of definite one an doners but I have no problems with Duke recruiting Barnes. First off, he definitely doesn't seem to be the type of recruit looking at college as a one year audition for the nba and I am confident that he will put his all into the team as a freshman and then make the appropriate decision after the season is over. Secondly, I think that if he comes to Duke he will always represent the university and program in an admirable fashion.

I kind of look at him as having either Grant Hill or Shane Battier for only one season but due to Barnes' talent level, combined with the current landscape of college ball, it would be either their sophomore or junior seasons.

eightyearoldsdude
10-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Barnes published his account of the UNC visit:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-unc/

sagegrouse
10-02-2009, 01:08 PM
Barnes published his account of the UNC visit:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-unc/

From HB's report:

"...Then the most important thing was the ring ceremony for last yearís basketball team.... They got two rings; one for winning the ACC and the other for winning the national title."

A ring for winning the ACC regular season and losing in the semis of the ACC tournament? Roy really doesn't care for the ACC-T, does he?

sagegrouse

airowe
10-02-2009, 01:08 PM
Barnes published his account of the UNC visit:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-unc/

Best quote of the article:

"but it has all of the priceless North Carolina things such as Michael Jordanís shoes, and a letter from Coach K to Michael Jordan saying that he hopes he does well at UNC"

Even in Barnes' recounting of what was obviously a great visit, he still remembers Coach K.

BlueintheFace
10-02-2009, 01:12 PM
Barnes published his account of the UNC visit:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-unc/

You guys give out rings for the ACC regular season best record? That must be a typo, no?

sagegrouse
10-02-2009, 01:19 PM
You guys give out rings for the ACC regular season best record? That must be a typo, no?

I believe it to be true. My other question is, if UNC wins both the regular season and the tournament, does the program give out two rings?

sagegrouse
'I hope we never find out.'

whereinthehellami
10-02-2009, 01:24 PM
Barnes published his account of the UNC visit:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-unc/


You guys give out rings for the ACC regular season best record? That must be a typo, no?

UNC should throw a parade for winning the "regular ACC season" and not actuallty winning the ACC.

DeepBlue70
10-02-2009, 05:14 PM
Barnes published his account of the UNC visit:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-unc/

HB said in the article that Vince Carter was "very aggressive about why he should go to UNC". I thought that it was against the rules to have alumni recruit. We had an earlier discussion about how much JWill could do with Kyrie on campus and my impression was that it was very little. What's the deal? Can someone clarify?

RoyalBlue08
10-02-2009, 05:46 PM
Loved that article. Doesn't sound to me like the kid is going to Carolina. Now all we need is a glowing report once he comes on his OV to Duke.

airowe
10-02-2009, 06:01 PM
Loved that article. Doesn't sound to me like the kid is going to Carolina. Now all we need is a glowing report once he comes on his OV to Duke.

In-Home Visit is Monday!!!!!!!!!

chrisheery
10-02-2009, 06:25 PM
HB said in the article that Vince Carter was "very aggressive about why he should go to UNC". I thought that it was against the rules to have alumni recruit. We had an earlier discussion about how much JWill could do with Kyrie on campus and my impression was that it was very little. What's the deal? Can someone clarify?

I have been wondering this too. Why is Michael Jordan only allowed to say hi, but VC can recruit him actively. I don't get that. I thought there were strict rules about alumni recruiting. Anyone have a link to the actual rules? Or know them? I'll try to find them and report back, but if anyone knows them before I find them, I'll take your word for it.

juise
10-02-2009, 07:06 PM
I have been wondering this too. Why is Michael Jordan only allowed to say hi, but VC can recruit him actively. I don't get that. I thought there were strict rules about alumni recruiting. Anyone have a link to the actual rules? Or know them? I'll try to find them and report back, but if anyone knows them before I find them, I'll take your word for it.

The only thing I can think of: Such contact is only allowed during official visits?


Edit: And ironically, I have just become Jason Williams!

BD80
10-02-2009, 07:10 PM
I have been wondering this too. Why is Michael Jordan only allowed to say hi, but VC can recruit him actively. I don't get that. I thought there were strict rules about alumni recruiting. Anyone have a link to the actual rules? Or know them? I'll try to find them and report back, but if anyone knows them before I find them, I'll take your word for it.

VC has a somewhat outspoken personality (remember Duke wanted Vince very badly). I wouldn't make too much of it, because Kyrie was apparently matched up against JWill in pick-up games during his OV. The staff has been pumping up Kyrie as being the next JWill. I have trouble believing Jason was silent during the games about the comparison.

airowe
10-02-2009, 07:21 PM
I have been wondering this too. Why is Michael Jordan only allowed to say hi, but VC can recruit him actively. I don't get that. I thought there were strict rules about alumni recruiting. Anyone have a link to the actual rules? Or know them? I'll try to find them and report back, but if anyone knows them before I find them, I'll take your word for it.

It seems as though it could be.

https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/bylawSearch


Representatives of an institution's athletics interests (as defined in Bylaw 13.02.13) are prohibited from making in-person, on- or off-campus recruiting contacts, or written or telephonic communications with a prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete's relatives or legal guardians. Specific examples of exceptions to the application of this regulation are set forth in Bylaw 13.1.2.2 (see Bylaw 13.1.3.5.1.1).

https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/bylawSearch


(c) Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes;


(e) Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution's athletics program.

As to the Jason Williams comparison, there has been no actual proof that Jason tried to talk Kyrie into attending Duke. He simply pumped up Kyrie's abilities. Now, as to whether any recruiting happened, that's certainly a matter of an unwinnable debate.

Greg_Newton
10-02-2009, 07:27 PM
Kyrie also specifically said in a follow up interview (don't have the link) that he and J-Will did not discuss the comparison, FWIW. I agree that it's a very tricky type of thing to enforce though, and can't see anything happening one way or another.

jaygdevil11
10-05-2009, 01:39 PM
Big day today! Get it done K!

moonpie23
10-05-2009, 01:42 PM
Why is Michael Jordan only allowed to say hi, but VC can recruit him actively.


michael doesn't have to yammer on and on to prop up his nba career.. :D

roywhite
10-05-2009, 02:39 PM
Big day today! Get it done K!


A hush falls over the crowd. It's a close contest and Duke's best shooter steps to the line. He'll have two shots. The referee passes the ball to Mike Krzyzewski; he takes a deep breath, eyes fixed on the target...bounce, bounce, pause....it's on the way....

SilkyJ
10-05-2009, 03:22 PM
A hush falls over the crowd. It's a close contest and Duke's best shooter steps to the line. He'll have two shots. The referee passes the ball to Mike Krzyzewski; he takes a deep breath, eyes fixed on the target...bounce, bounce, pause....it's on the way....

While the tension may be palpable in these parts, I for one expect this "play" to be "under review" for a period of time. Unless HB has been planning on coming to Duke this whole time and has just been messing around with these other schools (which I doubt), I don't expect his decision to come for at least a while after this visit.

Then again, I like to set low expectations and be pleasantly surprised.

airowe
10-05-2009, 03:28 PM
While the tension may be palpable in these parts, I for one expect this "play" to be "under review" for a period of time. Unless HB has been planning on coming to Duke this whole time and has just been messing around with these other schools (which I doubt), I don't expect his decision to come for at least a while after this visit.

Then again, I like to set low expectations and be pleasantly surprised.

Fall signing period starts Nov. 12th. Expect a decision soon thereafter.

BlueintheFace
10-05-2009, 03:57 PM
Fall signing period starts Nov. 12th. Expect a decision soon thereafter.

There is no doubt in my mind that HB will take all his visits and in-homes, weigh his options, and make a decision.

Indoor66
10-05-2009, 04:00 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that HB will take all his visits and in-homes, weigh his options, and make a decision.

That is truly insightful. Thank you.

Tim1515
10-05-2009, 04:09 PM
While the tension may be palpable in these parts, I for one expect this "play" to be "under review" for a period of time. Unless HB has been planning on coming to Duke this whole time and has just been messing around with these other schools (which I doubt), I don't expect his decision to come for at least a while after this visit.

Then again, I like to set low expectations and be pleasantly surprised.

I have no doubt that Barnes has his mind set. He has been to Kansas, he has been to Duke and UNC and he has obviously been to Iowa St. I have no idea if he visited Oklahoma before this weekend...but now he has.

He talked about "reaffirming" his choice shortly after the UNC trip. That might have suggested it was UNC all along...or that the trip just confirmed to him that he was making the right choice with another school.

IMO Irving and Barnes are very likely blue devils already...they just need to say the words.

airowe
10-05-2009, 04:58 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that HB will take all his visits and in-homes, weigh his options, and make a decision.

I didn't say anything different. We are his last in-home (today) and his last OV (Oct. 23rd).

Oriole Way
10-05-2009, 06:04 PM
Apparently Roy Williams was on a flight to Iowa today to see Barnes... after K's in-home visit.

flightaware.com/live/flight/N817MB (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N817MB)

On the surface it seems ike a desperate move, but it is unclear whether the Barnes family knows about this or accomodated it in any way. If that were the case, that obviously can't be good for us.

As far as I understand, Roy is not allowed to directly contact Barnes or his family. So he is (I am guessing) going to Ames just to wave to Harrison, not unlike Billy Donovan would do years ago when he unsuccessfully recruited Shavlik Randolph. I just hope Barnes didn't ok the Roy appearance.

chrisheery
10-05-2009, 06:16 PM
Really really lame move. So desperate. Just to stand there an wave? Really?

Duvall
10-05-2009, 06:23 PM
Recruiting is so stupid. I refuse to believe that kids actually fall for this nonsense.

mailman2927
10-05-2009, 06:26 PM
now ol roy is a STALKER. what a childish move doing something like this after a visit from another coach. hopefully barnes realizes how immature this move would be if it is true.

Tim1515
10-05-2009, 06:32 PM
To be fair i thought i heard K did a similar thing after UNC's official visit.

This just proves how valuable Barnes has become.

DukeBlood
10-05-2009, 06:40 PM
Relax people. This isn't the first time this has happened, probably not the last either. It's part of recruiting. Coach K has done things that may be shady. I know alot of other schools disagree with the whole Austin Rivers thing, REGARDLESS that Austin asked for Duke to recruit them.

There's alot of shady things that go on with recruiting. Let it go... :)

roywhite
10-05-2009, 06:50 PM
8:15 on a Monday evening in Ames, Iowa.

Knock, knock.

Mrs. B: Who's knocking on our door at this time of night? Harrison, go see who that is.

HB: It's Coach Roy, Mom. You know I can't talk to him because of those NCAA rules.

Mrs. B: Well, tell him to get going....honestly, a grown man who flies out to knock on our door when he can't even say anything.

HB: He's still out there, Mom. Just drinking a Coke and smiling. Yeah, I think he's leaving now...

shoutingncu
10-05-2009, 07:43 PM
Looks like Coach K visited with Barnes (http://duke.scout.com/2/897342.html) this morning.

Yes, it appears that Coach K made the same move on 9/9. It was received slightly differently on the board. ;)

roywhite
10-05-2009, 07:47 PM
Yes, it appears that Coach K made the same move on 9/9. It was received slightly differently on the board. ;)

From the link you posted:

"Coach K came in early this morning to watch me lift," said Harrison Barnes late Wednesday night. "It really shows how serious they are about me. To get up that early and come in like that shows a lot." Sounds like the attention was welcomed...in this case.

BlueintheFace
10-05-2009, 07:53 PM
Yes, it appears that Coach K made the same move on 9/9. It was received slightly differently on the board. ;)

There is a pretty significant difference. K went to watch Harrison lift the day after his OV to Carolina. Here, Roy literally scheduled an in-home with Harrison hours or minutes after K finishes his.

Oriole Way
10-05-2009, 07:55 PM
Yes, it appears that Coach K made the same move on 9/9. It was received slightly differently on the board. ;)

I guess it's a difference in opinion, but I don't think the situations are exactly the same.

The recruiting period ends tomorrow, whereas it was still ongoing the day following UNC's in-home. I think the key difference is that K stopped in the following morning, on a different day. Roy is barging on in literally hours after Duke's in-home visit. K gave UNC their day, I just think this is a BS move by Roy.

jesus_hurley
10-06-2009, 12:34 AM
Apparently Roy Williams was on a flight to Iowa today to see Barnes... after K's in-home visit.

flightaware.com/live/flight/N817MB (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N817MB)

On the surface it seems ike a desperate move, but it is unclear whether the Barnes family knows about this or accomodated it in any way. If that were the case, that obviously can't be good for us.

As far as I understand, Roy is not allowed to directly contact Barnes or his family. So he is (I am guessing) going to Ames just to wave to Harrison, not unlike Billy Donovan would do years ago when he unsuccessfully recruited Shavlik Randolph. I just hope Barnes didn't ok the Roy appearance.

And the first write up about it is out:
http://www.accsports.com/blogs/jim-young/200910056100/a-busy-night-at-the-barnes-household.php

DukeSean
10-06-2009, 01:00 AM
Well, HB's a smart kid, maybe he sees through Ol' Roy's tricks. In any event, I'll lose my sleep to more pressing issues.

Greg_Newton
10-06-2009, 01:09 AM
And the first write up about it is out:
http://www.accsports.com/blogs/jim-young/200910056100/a-busy-night-at-the-barnes-household.php

So... the conversation from earlier today was that Roy had used up all his direct-contact visits already and was just going to "wave" at Harrison, but that article implies Roy had a legit 2nd in-home visit directly following K's. That's a big distinction. Is that possible? Are coaches allowed to have 2 in-home visits with recruits?

If it's true, I would kind of hate that Roy managed to sneak in 2 while K had 1, and be a little worried that Harrison OK'd it. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Oriole Way
10-06-2009, 03:08 AM
So... the conversation from earlier today was that Roy had used up all his direct-contact visits already and was just going to "wave" at Harrison, but that article implies Roy had a legit 2nd in-home visit directly following K's. That's a big distinction. Is that possible? Are coaches allowed to have 2 in-home visits with recruits?

If it's true, I would kind of hate that Roy managed to sneak in 2 while K had 1, and be a little worried that Harrison OK'd it. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Well most who follow Duke recruiting closely were under the impression that Roy had used his 3 face-to-face visits, but apparently he pulled a fast one on everyone and he had only used two (in other words, one of the visits everyone thought was face-to-face was actually of the non-contact variety). That's my rudimentary understanding of the situation, from what I can gather. People like Watzone have probably been doing some investigating and should be able to tell us more in the coming days.

I agree with your second statement. This is basically a really bad development for Duke any way you look at it. For Williams to be able to get a second in-home visit, no matter how desperate he was for it or how hard he had to sell it, means that Barnes is highly receptive to him. I have to imagine K and the staff are furious about this. Roy Williams is a punk, but I'm very discouraged by Barnes' willingness to meet with him right after K's visit.

Ultimately though, I think we can still land Barnes as long as he makes his official visit.

Devilsfan
10-06-2009, 03:28 AM
Maybe K could fly back and wave to him as he went to his high school? This is a strategy first used by Billy D. when Shav was being recruited. He waved to Shav as Shav entered Broughton High but I might add to no avail. Maybe Ol'roy was just doing a room check. I believe stalking is a crime in Iowa.

Kewlswim
10-06-2009, 04:12 AM
Hi,

For some reason what Ole Roy did really bothers me. Maybe it is because I see us losing a star recruit to UNC. Oh well. Guess I better get some sleep, nothing I can do to help the situation one way or another.

:(

madscavenger
10-06-2009, 04:40 AM
There is reason to worry. Like a Canadian Mountie, Deputy Dawg always gets his man.

Welcome2DaSlopes
10-06-2009, 07:49 AM
Nothing to worry about? he came two hours later to talk to the man.

NYDukie
10-06-2009, 08:13 AM
I do have respect for Roy, and I'll give him a pass on this, but it seem's very "Caliparish" to me for him to come in at the last second for a visit if even within the rules, etc. It just doesn't pass the "smell" test as far is what is the "right" thing to do. Then again, many can say the same with Duke as far as Austin Rivers is concerned. Just goes to show you how cutthroat the world of college recruiting recruiting in basketball and football is.

NYDukie
10-06-2009, 08:29 AM
And now I have that pit in my stomach wondering now how the Barnes recruitment will turn out. Given the past few runner-up finishes with PP, Monroe and Boynton when it seemed with at least two of them Duke was the favorite, the pessimistic side of me is starting to overtake my optimistic side here with regards to Barnes. The other question is, what potential impact may this have on Irving as it has been noted that he and Barnes do have some form of friendly relationship and have mentioned the possibility of playing together. Definitely didn't expect this stress to set in...ughhhh!

chrisheery
10-06-2009, 08:57 AM
But I don't see how Duke is doing anything wrong with Rivers. He came to us. Right?

I thought about it. If coach K had done this to Roy, I would have been jumping up and down happy. So, I can't say he's wrong to do it. I am looking forward to this just being over.

Houston
10-06-2009, 09:01 AM
I hope that I am wrong, but as a life long Red Sox fan this feels like the Sox and Yankees battling to sign Mark Teixeira. The ESPN scroll reported the Sox GM and management team was flying to Dallas to meet w/Teixeira with the implication that he would sign that night. While the Sox entourage was in the air, the Yanks came in at the last minute and subsequently closed the deal. I hope I am wrong but there are too many Roy and UNC stories for my comfort.

Duke of Nashville
10-06-2009, 09:08 AM
Not impressed by Ole' Roy...and to be honest I am no longer worried if we get HB or not. It is a sealed deal. HB is just toying with Roy now. He will eventually put on that Duke Blue hat and stay on the correct side of 15501 and we can all go back to laughing at Roy Williams.....

Note to Self: ALWAYS HAVE YOUR FIRST CUP OF COFFEE BEFORE POSTING ON DBR.

moonpie23
10-06-2009, 09:13 AM
"aw shucks" is limited in power on an intelligent mind. HB will make his decision on how he and the right program fit together.....not by who he sees last.

DUKIE V(A)
10-06-2009, 10:00 AM
Wow! This is really getting heated and even more interesting. I respect HB and his family for doing their homework and taking advantage of every opportunity to meet with all programs still in contention for his services. HB is doing what he maintained he was going to do all along ... take his time and look at his options carefully before making an incredibly important decision. I don't blame him one bit for doing so even if it means Carolina is a possibility.

From the outside, it seems that Duke and Carolina are in fairly good position. I have not heard so much about Kansas or Iowa State lately. I wonder about whether the recent news regarding the Football/Basketball Fued in Kansas is off-putting to the Barnes family and may give a leg up to Duke and Carolina.

In the end, the family will make an excellent decision for themselves. Let's hope they decide Duke is the best place for HB. It would be outstanding to get a person and player in the mold of G. Hill, Battier, etc. Anyway, I know Coach K and his staff is going to do everything they can do to show him what Duke has to offer. That's all they can do. If HB ends up picking Carolina or some other program, I expect that it will be "goodness of fit" rather than "one-upsmanship" that is the deciding factor.

UrinalCake
10-06-2009, 10:07 AM
So instead of focusing so much on Roy... does anyone have any news on how Coach K's visit went?

allenmurray
10-06-2009, 10:12 AM
So instead of focusing so much on Roy... does anyone have any news on how Coach K's visit went?

A highly exclusive board to which I subscirbe reported the following:

Roy stirred water into a package of kool-aid mix and made some faux lemonade for Barnes to drink as a refreshment during the visit.

K turned tap water into a 1995 Chteau Valandraud Saint-Emilion. If Barnes likes fine wines I think we're in good shape. On the other hand, if he prefers to drink the kool-aid . . .

NSDukeFan
10-06-2009, 10:51 AM
A highly exclusive board to which I subscirbe reported the following:

Roy stirred water into a package of kool-aid mix and made some faux lemonade for Barnes to drink as a refreshment during the visit.

K turned tap water into a 1995 Chteau Valandraud Saint-Emilion. If Barnes likes fine wines I think we're in good shape. On the other hand, if he prefers to drink the kool-aid . . .

OOOOHHh Noooooooooo,
Harrison is underage and therefore would have to drink the Kool-Aid. We're doomed, the sky is falling.;)

chrisheery
10-06-2009, 11:03 AM
Another telling of this story. Somehow, I doubt Harrison called Roy.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Duke-UNC-comically-battle-over-Harrison-Barnes?urn=ncaab,194284

JG Nothing
10-06-2009, 11:20 AM
Another telling of this story. Somehow, I doubt Harrison called Roy.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Duke-UNC-comically-battle-over-Harrison-Barnes?urn=ncaab,194284

Dave Odom has interesting comments on the Barnes recruiting battle. He puts it all in perspective at the 9:10 mark.
http://bustersports.com/podcast/college-basketball-news/2009/10/06/harrison-barnes-odom-covers-the-duke-unc-recruiting-war/

eightyearoldsdude
10-06-2009, 11:22 AM
Odum speaks on the issue: http://bustersports.com/podcast/college-basketball-news/2009/10/06/harrison-barnes-odom-covers-the-duke-unc-recruiting-war/

sandinmyshoes
10-06-2009, 11:25 AM
Another telling of this story. Somehow, I doubt Harrison called Roy.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Duke-UNC-comically-battle-over-Harrison-Barnes?urn=ncaab,194284

Dave Odom evidently reported that the Barnes family called Williams for the follow up visit.

I don't think any of this means we've lost Barnes, but it has got to be obvious to anyone who can muster up any objectivity at all, that Williams has done a masterful job of turning UNC into a very serious threat in this, and that we could lose Barnes to UNC.

Next Jaunary, my New Year's resolution is going to be to stop following recruiting.

ice-9
10-06-2009, 11:32 AM
Odom makes it seem as though UNC was the leader and that Coach K managed to cause enouh doubt for Harrison to want to call Ol' Roy down.

Doesn't seem good for us... But I'm hopeful.

Kedsy
10-06-2009, 11:45 AM
There is reason to worry. Like a Canadian Mountie, Deputy Dawg always gets his man.

Other than arguably Brandon Wright, who has Ol' Roy "stolen" from Duke? Leslie McDonald? Why do people think he can just snap his fingers and get everyone he wants? Seems kind of paranoid to me.

Also, is all the panic really warranted around here every time another coach (esp. Roy or Calimari) spends time with a recruit? It's like the kid at a high school dance who balls up his fists every time another guy talks to his girlfriend. Rather silly, if you ask me.

roywhite
10-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Odom makes it seem as though UNC was the leader and that Coach K managed to cause enouh doubt for Harrison to want to call Ol' Roy down.

Doesn't seem good for us... But I'm hopeful.


Odom's version strains credibility, if I understood it as he laid it out. That while or shortly after Coach K visited the Barnes home in Ames, Iowa, that HB or someone else called Chapel Hill to have Roy come out and review some things??

So Coach K is in-home from 4:00 or 4:30 PM till 6:30 or so and the call is placed when??

Are we to believe that "Aw Shucks 1" the official Tarheel recruiting plane was warming up on the runway for just such a situation and that Roy was located, got to the airstrip, jumped in and made it to the Barnes doorstep by 9:00 PM or so??

DukeHoopsGuru
10-06-2009, 11:47 AM
I'm a very infrequent poster, and I'm not someone that follows Twitter feeds and all that, but I do follow recruiting. Nobody really knows for sure what is going on. However, I will say this. It truly will be a sign of a shift in power if Duke loses Harrison to UNC when they were on him longer, and he was their #1 priority from the start. The kid showed up to Duke to surprise Coach K AGAINST UNC, with cut hair, and a Duke shirt. If Duke does lose him to UNC, it is not a good sign.

There is still a little ways to go on this, but it does seem that UNC has peaked Harrison's interest......maybe even over Duke at this point. Time will tell, but losing this kid to UNC would be a major loss. No way to spin it.

SupaDave
10-06-2009, 11:54 AM
FYI - I will start deleting SPHM posts. If all you can say is "I don't like this or I'm worried" your post will be deleted...

airowe
10-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Odum speaks on the issue: http://bustersports.com/podcast/college-basketball-news/2009/10/06/harrison-barnes-odom-covers-the-duke-unc-recruiting-war/

As roywhite said, the laws of physics do not support Odom's account of the events.

Indoor66
10-06-2009, 12:11 PM
FYI - I will start deleting SPHM posts. If all you can say is "I don't like this or I'm worried" your post will be deleted...

Acronym : Definition
SPHM (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/SPHM) : Specialist in Public Health Medicine

What does SPHM mean to you?

tommy
10-06-2009, 12:16 PM
A few weeks ago several posters, myself included, expressed concern that the star-studded UNC alumni game, with Barnes present at courtside sittiing next to Michael Jordan, was potentially a game changer in this recruiting battle. I was especiallly concerned in light of Barnes' experience there being compared to his experience watching Duke play Pfeiffer, which to me seems in comparison to be minor league. In any event, it does appear that the alumni game changed the course of this recruitment. Didn't it seem like the consensus opinion of those in the know was that, prior to the alumni game, Duke was -- perhaps along with Kansas -- the leader for Barnes? UNC was not really viewed as being in the mix. That alumni thing appears to have really wowed Harrison, and vaulted UNC right into the mix, and now, perhaps -- perhaps -- past us. Let's hope not.

SupaDave
10-06-2009, 12:36 PM
Acronym : Definition
SPHM (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/SPHM) : Specialist in Public Health Medicine

What does SPHM mean to you?

SHPM or SPHM - it's your choice - just don't be one...

For all reading this thread and considering adding a post, please resist the temptation to either become a Shrieking Howler Panic Monkey (SHPM, trademarked by Throatybeard, I believe) or to respond to the SHPMs.

airowe
10-06-2009, 12:42 PM
A few weeks ago several posters, myself included, expressed concern that the star-studded UNC alumni game, with Barnes present at courtside sittiing next to Michael Jordan, was potentially a game changer in this recruiting battle. I was especiallly concerned in light of Barnes' experience there being compared to his experience watching Duke play Pfeiffer, which to me seems in comparison to be minor league. In any event, it does appear that the alumni game changed the course of this recruitment. Didn't it seem like the consensus opinion of those in the know was that, prior to the alumni game, Duke was -- perhaps along with Kansas -- the leader for Barnes? UNC was not really viewed as being in the mix. That alumni thing appears to have really wowed Harrison, and vaulted UNC right into the mix, and now, perhaps -- perhaps -- past us. Let's hope not.

Tommy,

Harrison did NOT sit next to Jordan during the game.

As to your other point, its clear UNC has made up some ground but know that we still have the OV to make that ground up.

Kedsy
10-06-2009, 12:47 PM
A few weeks ago several posters, myself included, expressed concern that the star-studded UNC alumni game, with Barnes present at courtside sittiing next to Michael Jordan, was potentially a game changer in this recruiting battle. I was especiallly concerned in light of Barnes' experience there being compared to his experience watching Duke play Pfeiffer, which to me seems in comparison to be minor league. In any event, it does appear that the alumni game changed the course of this recruitment. Didn't it seem like the consensus opinion of those in the know was that, prior to the alumni game, Duke was -- perhaps along with Kansas -- the leader for Barnes? UNC was not really viewed as being in the mix. That alumni thing appears to have really wowed Harrison, and vaulted UNC right into the mix, and now, perhaps -- perhaps -- past us. Let's hope not.


You think it was really the alumni game or could UNC's apparent climb into HB's consciousness possibly have anything to do with some other positive element(s) of the school, team, and/or coach?

From all I've read, Harrison Barnes appears to be a very bright, very thougtful individual, who is methodically researching the college environment that will best serve him and be most enjoyable for however long he's there. Do you really think the glitzy stuff is what's going to sway him?

For that matter do you really think the "consensus opinion" is truly related to what's going on in the recruit's head? The vast majority of what's written seems to consist of unattributed rumors and wishful thinking. How does that tell us anything?

I think many people around here have believed HB was a lock for Duke without any reasonable support. Now they believe UNC is going to "steal" him from us, again with no reasonable support. They may be right and they may be wrong, but they probably don't know which any more than I do.

Since I'm standing up here on my soapbox, I'd like to say that in the unfortunate case of HB deciding against us, it will be worth remembering that failing to make a gain is not the same as a loss. (I.e., we never had Harrison, how can he be stolen?)

Finally, I very much want to see HB in Duke blue, for all the right basketball and citizenship reasons, but the biggest reason I want to land him is I do not think I'll be able to bear all the whining and moaning about the end of Duke basketball as we know it if he goes elsewhere.

whereinthehellami
10-06-2009, 01:11 PM
UNC has it rollin for sure. Roy is tough to beat when he wants a recruit and he wants HB. That would be quite the lineup that UNC would have with HB in it.

roywhite
10-06-2009, 01:12 PM
Finally, I very much want to see HB in Duke blue, for all the right basketball and citizenship reasons, but the biggest reason I want to land him is I do not think I'll be able to bear all the whining and moaning about the end of Duke basketball as we know it if he goes elsewhere.


Good rant, Kedsy.

For those of us in NC, there is the additional prospect of some major woofing by the light blue faithful. :(

superdave
10-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Was it the alumni game at UNC or the fact that Roy Williams has won two of the last five National Championships?

Any top 10 recruit should look very seriously at UNC because of three Final Fours and two National Championships. That's not to say that said recruits should drink the koolaid....

Super "Without 2 recent titles, who cares about the alumn/has-beens game?" Dave

tommy
10-06-2009, 01:57 PM
For that matter do you really think the "consensus opinion" is truly related to what's going on in the recruit's head? The vast majority of what's written seems to consist of unattributed rumors and wishful thinking. How does that tell us anything?

I think many people around here have believed HB was a lock for Duke without any reasonable support. Now they believe UNC is going to "steal" him from us, again with no reasonable support. They may be right and they may be wrong, but they probably don't know which any more than I do.




With this, I totally agree. In reading so many posts on recruiting, it makes me gnash my teeth to bits how many opinions on recruiting are based on . . . nothing. As you've pointed out, I have fallen into that trap myself on occasion, as here. But you're so right -- the vast majority of us on this site have absolutely no idea as to what is really going on. We read little snippets here and there from other people and make a lot of assumptions, presumptions, exaggerations, and guesses, but we don't really know anything about what is really going on inside the head of this 18 year old young man.

FWIW, the same goes for a lot of posters' expectations of how freshmen are going to play, how much they'll contribute, what their career arcs will look like, etc. The vast majority of us have never seen any of these kids play -- ever -- and yet think we know something about how the kid will play at the college level, which is a totally different ballgame than high school, in many, many respects. It's ridiculous.

COYS
10-06-2009, 02:09 PM
With this, I totally agree. In reading so many posts on recruiting, it makes me gnash my teeth to bits how many opinions on recruiting are based on . . . nothing. As you've pointed out, I have fallen into that trap myself on occasion, as here. But you're so right -- the vast majority of us on this site have absolutely no idea as to what is really going on. We read little snippets here and there from other people and make a lot of assumptions, presumptions, exaggerations, and guesses, but we don't really know anything about what is really going on inside the head of this 18 year old young man.

FWIW, the same goes for a lot of posters' expectations of how freshmen are going to play, how much they'll contribute, what their career arcs will look like, etc. The vast majority of us have never seen any of these kids play -- ever -- and yet think we know something about how the kid will play at the college level, which is a totally different ballgame than high school, in many, many respects. It's ridiculous.

Excellent point. Similarly, we don't really know the importance of a particular recruit until after they actually start playing. All of those people saying HB is the most important recruit for Duke in the past decade have no clue how the next few years will go with or without HB. This is obviously not to say that HB isn't an incredible talent and an obvious asset to any team that is lucky enough to have him, but so are many other players. Imagine our 2008 season without Singler. I'd say our team is better prepared to absorb missing out on HB than our 2008 team would have been if we failed to land Singler plus the loss of McRoberts to the NBA. HB is obviously important because he's the top player out there. But I think it's a little silly to over blow his significance.

JaMarcus Russell
10-06-2009, 02:18 PM
Odom's version strains credibility, if I understood it as he laid it out. That while or shortly after Coach K visited the Barnes home in Ames, Iowa, that HB or someone else called Chapel Hill to have Roy come out and review some things??

So Coach K is in-home from 4:00 or 4:30 PM till 6:30 or so and the call is placed when??

Are we to believe that "Aw Shucks 1" the official Tarheel recruiting plane was warming up on the runway for just such a situation and that Roy was located, got to the airstrip, jumped in and made it to the Barnes doorstep by 9:00 PM or so??

This need to be repeated. Odom's version of the story just does not make sense. I also don't understand how he can have such specific details about this story within 1-2 hours of it occurring, especially since Roy and Coach K are not going to be giving him details about their trip, and I somehow doubt that the Barnes family has a former Wake Forest coach on speed dial.

ACCBBallFan
10-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Odom's version strains credibility, if I understood it as he laid it out. That while or shortly after Coach K visited the Barnes home in Ames, Iowa, that HB or someone else called Chapel Hill to have Roy come out and review some things??

So Coach K is in-home from 4:00 or 4:30 PM till 6:30 or so and the call is placed when??

Are we to believe that "Aw Shucks 1" the official Tarheel recruiting plane was warming up on the runway for just such a situation and that Roy was located, got to the airstrip, jumped in and made it to the Barnes doorstep by 9:00 PM or so??Agreed.

Dave Odom is a knowledgeable guy with respect to what happens in basketball recruiting, and the audio is probably more fact than fiction. He points out a couple of times that what they are saying is unsubstantiated.

What I find troubling is the time line. Not sure what kind of private jets we are talking but I would suspect it is between 2-3 hour flight from RDU to DesMoines, and then a drive to Ames. Or small regional airport in Ames, whatever.

So to go with the Barnes met with K, deliberated with family and HS Coach, called Roy, staff located Roy and arranged for private jet, and Roy's plane was in the air before K's landed, is hard to fathom. Must not have been a long deliberation.

That said, most of the audio is probably pretty close. The only scenario that makes sense is if UNC as result of Alumni game led before K's visit and Duke led after, and thus Barnes wanted to gather more information from Roy before making his OV to Duke.

If UNC led before and After, no need to fetch Roy. Ditto if Duke led before and after, as OV would likely be further swaying not backing off. So I tend to think it was pre-arranged to allow Roy one last shot, per an agreement he and parents probably made with Roy during the Alumni visit.

That being the case, Roy has his bags packed and was hoping to not get that call would be my guess.

I don't think either coach is out recruiting the other, just both going all in, and Barnes having a hard time deciding - final answer, Regis.

How well Roy did in the rebuttal, time will tell, but I suspect it won't be known until after the last OV, unless Barnes continues to post his diary for USA or whoever it was.

Ima Facultiwyfe
10-06-2009, 02:32 PM
...most probably flies straight out of Horace Williams Airport to the local airport wherever Ol' Roy wants to go. I doubt that RDU is necessary.
Love, Ima

BD80
10-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Come on, whichever way it goes. this is going to be a great chapter in the Duke/unc rivalry.

There are many possible scenarios which could lead to Roy flying up there, most of them would involve Roy asking for the opportunity. Harrison undoubtedly has enough respect for Roy and the program to grant the request.

While this may make the recruitment more interesting, it makes me less interested.

DUKIE V(A)
10-06-2009, 02:46 PM
Dave Odom evidently reported that the Barnes family called Williams for the follow up visit.

I don't think any of this means we've lost Barnes, but it has got to be obvious to anyone who can muster up any objectivity at all, that Williams has done a masterful job of turning UNC into a very serious threat in this, and that we could lose Barnes to UNC.

Next Jaunary, my New Year's resolution is going to be to stop following recruiting.

At least you still (or should I say only) have a few months of obsession left...Who are we kidding?...Who keeps their New Year's resolutions anyway?

moonpie23
10-06-2009, 02:51 PM
from Tdd tweet:

TheDevilsDen Barnes will officially visit Duke in three weeks. As originally planned.
about 5 hours ago from web

Indoor66
10-06-2009, 02:52 PM
What I find troubling is the time line. Not sure what kind of private jets we are talking but I would suspect it is between 2-3 hour flight from RDU to DesMoines, and then a drive to Ames. Or small regional airport in Ames, whatever.

He could fly to Ames (http://skyvector.com/airport/AMW/Ames-Municipal-Airport). The distance is approximately 780-800 (http://www.convertit.com/Go/ConvertIt/Calculators/Geography/Flying_Distance_Calc.ASP)miles. That would be about 2 hours flying in a private jet.

dw0827
10-06-2009, 03:01 PM
If HB only wanted to clarify a few matters with Roy, why couldn't he have simply picked up the phone and called Roy? Why have him hunted down, wisked away on a plane, and get him out to Iowa just to ask a few questions?
Or seek clarification of a few issues?

Something just doesn't make sense here.

JaMarcus Russell
10-06-2009, 03:15 PM
I really don't understand the panic in this thread. For everyone saying that this is a bad sign because the Barnes family allowed Roy to come in, what did you expect? He is considering UNC and has already gone on an official visit. Was he supposed to turn him down? If that was going to happen, he would have eliminated UNC from his list long ago.

Coach K did a very similar thing right after Barnes visited UNC. All this shows is that Barnes has a certain level of interest in both schools, which should be inherently clear from the fact that he has visited both schools.

As for Odom's unsubstantiated story about Barnes asking Roy to come, Roy not being found for a time, and then Roy getting on the private plane and getting to Ames in time to spend valuable minutes with Barnes before midnight, there are lots of hole to the story. I certainly believe that Roy visited Barnes last night, but there had to be more pre-meditation than Odom (or whoever is telling the story to Odom) is letting on.

Oriole Way
10-06-2009, 03:17 PM
I think a key to all this is if Barnes keeps his official visit to Kansas as originally planned. Their Midnight Madness is on the same night as UNC's. If Barnes is as torn between Duke and UNC as many believe, and if UNC is the leader at this point, I think he would cancel his visit to Kansas and go to UNC's Midnight Madness instead.

If Barnes keeps all of his visits intact and makes the official visit to Duke, which some outlets have already confirmed since last night, then I think visiting the campus, hanging out with the players again, getting shown some love by the students (in whatever way the students can without breaking rules), and perhaps just as importantly impressing his mom on Parent's Weekend, then hopefully Barnes winds up in Durham where he belongs.

eightyearoldsdude
10-06-2009, 03:25 PM
I really don't understand the panic in this thread. For everyone saying that this is a bad sign because the Barnes family allowed Roy to come in, what did you expect? He is considering UNC and has already gone on an official visit. Was he supposed to turn him down? If that was going to happen, he would have eliminated UNC from his list long ago.

Coach K did a very similar thing right after Barnes visited UNC. All this shows is that Barnes has a certain level of interest in both schools, which should be inherently clear from the fact that he has visited both schools.

As for Odom's unsubstantiated story about Barnes asking Roy to come, Roy not being found for a time, and then Roy getting on the private plane and getting to Ames in time to spend valuable minutes with Barnes before midnight, there are lots of hole to the story. I certainly believe that Roy visited Barnes last night, but there had to be more pre-meditation than Odom (or whoever is telling the story to Odom) is letting on.

Some respectable posters on IC say that Odum had it wrong and that the visit was planned in advance at the behest of the Barnes family. Frankly, I don't know what difference it makes--either scenario can be interpreted as a positive sign for either school. I am sure Barnes and his family have given staff at both programs reason for optimism (which is what fuels the smugness from "insiders"), for the simple reason that he would clearly do well at either school, so it's a win-win for him.

But IMO, it's all tea leaves, bits of bone, and sheep intestines to us outsiders. You can see whatever you want in these stories, and anyone who acts like they know what Barnes is going to do is a charlatan. IMO, "silent verbals" have more in common with unicorns than recruiting, and aren't worth the paper they're written on.

roywhite
10-06-2009, 03:43 PM
It's no great news to note that Duke and UNC often recruit from the same pool, and occasionally compete for certain players. But I can't recall (and I go back to the late 1960's as a fan) a recruiting battle between the two as being this intense.

Perhaps the presence of Internet message boards, recruiting sites, and cable TV coverage of college basketball simply bring this to light, or is the Barnes saga one for the ages?

DevilCastDownfromDurham
10-06-2009, 04:05 PM
It's no great news to note that Duke and UNC often recruit from the same pool, and occasionally compete for certain players. But I can't recall (and I go back to the late 1960's as a fan) a recruiting battle between the two as being this intense.

Perhaps the presence of Internet message boards, recruiting sites, and cable TV coverage of college basketball simply bring this to light, or is the Barnes saga one for the ages?

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/blogspotting/shavlikrandolph.jpg

Duke wasn't stinging from such a series of tough breaks at that point, but the hype over Shav (and the stunts) were just as good/bad, IMO.

eightyearoldsdude
10-06-2009, 04:21 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/blogspotting/shavlikrandolph.jpg

Duke wasn't stinging from such a series of tough breaks at that point, but the hype over Shav (and the stunts) were just as good/bad, IMO.

The Shav battle was huge, but it was a welterweight Doh going against a heavyweight K, compounded by the fact that K already had a center on board, IIRC, whereas we only had guards. This time around, it's two hall of fame heavyweights in their prime.

CameronBornAndBred
10-06-2009, 04:25 PM
I'm stoked he will be able to see a game on his visit, plus experience the Duke crowd that will make up homecoming.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
10-06-2009, 04:28 PM
The Shav battle was huge, but it was a welterweight Doh going against a heavyweight K, compounded by the fact that K already had a center on board, IIRC, whereas we only had guards. This time around, it's two hall of fame heavyweights in their prime.

No doubt, and the fact that it was as close as it was speaks volumes about UNC's institutional and cultural advantages in recruiting. Even given how much injury killed Shav's career (relative to expectations - he's still in the NBA!) that recruiting "win" was a very big deal for Duke.

In the same way, and fairly or not I think Barnes is being perceived as a referendum on K's ability to go toe-to-toe with Roy in light of those same advantages. Barnes will make his own decision for his own reasons, but I completely understand why so many folks are putting so much stock in this battle, no matter how long Barnes sticks around or what he does on the court.

DBFAN
10-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Since it seems that everyone has put their negative spin on things here, I thought I would put down a positive conspiracy theory.

What if it went down like this:

Coach K and HB have their in home visit. Coach leaves and says I will see you in a couple of weeks for your OV.

HB really liked K, and has made his decision that Duke is where he wants to go.

HB being well rounded kid he is decides to do the respectful thing and call coach Williams. He tells them he apprecitates everything they have done for him, but he has decided to go with Duke.

Coach Williams says he understands, but would like to sit down and talk with him before he before he declares. Being the tough recruiter that Roy is, he gets on a plane to see HB, to give one final pitch.

Now obviously none of this is inside information, but it is just as informed as any "guess" as to what HB is doing. As for Odom, he has no more inside info from the Duke and UNC camp, than we do. I just thought maybe we could just put a positive spin on something for once. Not trying to bust anyone's chops, because I am just as pessimistic as anyone else on this board. But I just want to hope for the best on this, so we don't have to sit on pins and needles for the next few weeks, or months.

Go Duke

El_Diablo
10-06-2009, 04:40 PM
I'm stoked he will be able to see a game on his visit, plus experience the Duke crowd that will make up homecoming.

Homecoming already passed...it was against NCCU (when Kyrie was on campus).

El_Diablo
10-06-2009, 04:44 PM
I think a key to all this is if Barnes keeps his official visit to Kansas as originally planned. Their Midnight Madness is on the same night as UNC's. If Barnes is as torn between Duke and UNC as many believe, and if UNC is the leader at this point, I think he would cancel his visit to Kansas and go to UNC's Midnight Madness instead.

If Barnes keeps all of his visits intact and makes the official visit to Duke, which some outlets have already confirmed since last night, then I think visiting the campus, hanging out with the players again, getting shown some love by the students (in whatever way the students can without breaking rules), and perhaps just as importantly impressing his mom on Parent's Weekend, then hopefully Barnes winds up in Durham where he belongs.

I don't think this will be a huge indicator. He gets a free trip to Kansas for Phoggy Night or whatever they call it, so going there instead of somewhere else (on his own dime) seems logical, even if he's leaning somewhere else.

It would be a HUGE tip-off if he did cancel an OV to go somewhere else, though. But I don't think any meaning can be gleaned one way or the other simply by going on OVs as planned.

Kedsy
10-06-2009, 04:45 PM
In the same way, and fairly or not I think Barnes is being perceived as a referendum on K's ability to go toe-to-toe with Roy in light of those same advantages.

Here's my question: is it perceived that way by anybody who matters?

I can't imagine K, the staff, the administration, or the team perceive it that way. I'd be surprised if high school recruits perceive it that way or even care. In what way is this supposed perception relevant to anything?

airowe
10-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Since it seems that everyone has put their negative spin on things here, I thought I would put down a positive conspiracy theory.

What if it went down like this:

Coach K and HB have their in home visit. Coach leaves and says I will see you in a couple of weeks for your OV.

HB really liked K, and has made his decision that Duke is where he wants to go.

HB being well rounded kid he is decides to do the respectful thing and call coach Williams. He tells them he apprecitates everything they have done for him, but he has decided to go with Duke.

Coach Williams says he understands, but would like to sit down and talk with him before he before he declares. Being the tough recruiter that Roy is, he gets on a plane to see HB, to give one final pitch.

Now obviously none of this is inside information, but it is just as informed as any "guess" as to what HB is doing. As for Odom, he has no more inside info from the Duke and UNC camp, than we do. I just thought maybe we could just put a positive spin on something for once. Not trying to bust anyone's chops, because I am just as pessimistic as anyone else on this board. But I just want to hope for the best on this, so we don't have to sit on pins and needles for the next few weeks, or months.

Go Duke

I love another optimist on the board, but this doesn't work temporally. Roy was on the ground in Ames before Duke's OV with Harrison Barnes was over. A positive spin would be that Harrison wanted to give Roy one more chance to change his mind on going to Duke and Roy finagled his way into the meeting being after Duke's in-home, with it being the last day the two can have face-to-face contact. Harrison relented, making both coaches have equal opportunity to give him their pitch. Even after everything Roy has thrown at Harrison, he still hasn't received a commitment. Realizing that this was his last chance to make an impact, Roy slyly scheduled the visit to come immediately following K's, in the waning moments of the contact period. Roy pushed for a commitment, didn't get one, and now Duke has it's last chance to make an impact coming on the weekend of October 23rd. K will seal the deal, and Harrison Barnes will be wearing number 40 in Duke Blue in '10-'11.

:)

DevilCastDownfromDurham
10-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Here's my question: is it perceived that way by anybody who matters?

I can't imagine K, the staff, the administration, or the team perceive it that way. I'd be surprised if high school recruits perceive it that way or even care. In what way is this supposed perception relevant to anything?

I suppose there are divergent views on how much general fan (and some media) sentiment matters. We've certainly had those debates regarding "Duke hate" in the past. Some would argue that a perception that K has lost his fastball would be harmful in recruiting in the same way that the (unfair) view that Duke is not welcoming to some populations hurts recruiting. Others aren't persuaded by that logic and, with Duke hate, embrace the "Evil Empire" mentality.

I'm probably somewhere in between, but I do think it would be naive to ignore fan perceptions altogether. There's no question that negative recruiting would include those types of claims. As always, just my $0.02.

flyingdutchdevil
10-06-2009, 05:08 PM
As for Odom, he has no more inside info from the Duke and UNC camp, than we do. I just thought maybe we could just put a positive spin on something for once. Not trying to bust anyone's chops, because I am just as pessimistic as anyone else on this board. But I just want to hope for the best on this, so we don't have to sit on pins and needles for the next few weeks, or months.

Go Duke

I'm pretty sure that's not right. Odom was a college coach, which probably means he spent a huge chunk of his life in the college basketball world, which probably also means that he has connections and inside information, something that the vast majority of the "Duke and UNC camp" don't have.

While I was completely confused by Odom's interview, I do believe that something fishy is going on. What it is, I have no idea, but there is definitely something cooking. I just hope that the main ingredient is Duke...

Kedsy
10-06-2009, 05:36 PM
I suppose there are divergent views on how much general fan (and some media) sentiment matters. We've certainly had those debates regarding "Duke hate" in the past. Some would argue that a perception that K has lost his fastball would be harmful in recruiting in the same way that the (unfair) view that Duke is not welcoming to some populations hurts recruiting. Others aren't persuaded by that logic and, with Duke hate, embrace the "Evil Empire" mentality.

I'm probably somewhere in between, but I do think it would be naive to ignore fan perceptions altogether. There's no question that negative recruiting would include those types of claims. As always, just my $0.02.

I understand what you're saying, and I can see how erroneous reports of K's demise could hurt recruiting, but IMO it would have to be a demise on the court, something that perhaps could be fueled by Duke's recent misses in the NCAA tourney but negated by K's recent success in the Olympics. It's hard for me to believe that a recruit would look at any coach missing on another recruit and think, "boy, I don't know if I want to even play for a guy who can't even recruit so-and-so." I just can't imagine that's how young men think.

Kewlswim
10-06-2009, 05:46 PM
Hi,

A ton of so-called "Duke haters" are just that, but if their son or daughter were admitted to Duke somehow Duke wouldn't be so bad. I imagine some would even decide to sent their child to the Gothic Wonderland. Now, there are die-hard Carolina folks who might not. I am talking about the general "Duke hating" population as a whole.

Kids who play basketball at a high level fall into this camp. I would love to know, for example, what Sean Dockery's family thought of Duke before it became apparent he would really have a shot of going there. I imagine Duke suddenly became a lot better place (good academics too :D ).

GO DUKE!

flyingdutchdevil
10-06-2009, 05:47 PM
I understand what you're saying, and I can see how erroneous reports of K's demise could hurt recruiting, but IMO it would have to be a demise on the court, something that perhaps could be fueled by Duke's recent misses in the NCAA tourney but negated by K's recent success in the Olympics. It's hard for me to believe that a recruit would look at any coach missing on another recruit and think, "boy, I don't know if I want to even play for a guy who can't even recruit so-and-so." I just can't imagine that's how young men think.

I see your point and, for the most part, agree with it. However, here's what I sometimes think a player is thinking when recruited by us

Recruit's thoughts: "Why didn't said player go to Duke? I heard that it was his top choice, and yet he didn't go? That seems a little strange to me. What did he see that I didn't? I like Coach K, he sees me as a star, but what is the catch?"

I know I'm over-thinking it, but I can't help it. That's just the way I see it. I don't think that's the main reason we've missed out on recruits lately (I attribute that to the fact that Duke hatred has somehow increased significantly in the past 10 years).

Greg_Newton
10-06-2009, 05:59 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/story/6149424/#

-K/Wojo/"Nathan" were there for 3 hours, Roy about an hour and a half.

-Barnes' coach knew K was coming, was unaware Roy was coming until after the fact.

Tim1515
10-06-2009, 06:04 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/story/6149424/#

-K/Wojo/"Nathan" were there for 3 hours, Roy about an hour and a half.

-Barnes' coach knew K was coming, was unaware Roy was coming until after the fact.

Barnes' coach was unaware Roy was coming...doesn't say Barnes was

DBFAN
10-06-2009, 06:09 PM
Maybe I misread the article, but it seems like it said K was unaware Williams was coming, but HB already knew.

sandinmyshoes
10-06-2009, 06:09 PM
This is beginning to sound like there are differing opinions in the Barnes family. Perhaps Barnes himself is still not sure, but family members are pulling one way or the other?

The good thing is that while they seem willing to put in their opinions, ultimately they plan to leave it to Barnes. I don't mean that to sound like I think Barnes will choose Duke, but rather that it should be his decision in the end.

CameronBornAndBred
10-06-2009, 06:15 PM
I'm stoked he will be able to see a game on his visit, plus experience the Duke crowd that will make up homecoming.
Apparently it's Parent's Day..not HC. Either way it will be crowded.:)

Lord Ash
10-06-2009, 06:23 PM
So has there been no report of how the Duke visit went, other than to say that Carolina came too?

Tim1515
10-06-2009, 06:24 PM
Maybe I misread the article, but it seems like it said K was unaware Williams was coming, but HB already knew.

K apparently left earlier then his initial flight intended (okay well i've heard that). I guarantee K knew Roy was coming before he left that house.

Anyway...it is impossible to know what went on right now...in time...

airowe
10-06-2009, 06:30 PM
So has there been no report of how the Duke visit went, other than to say that Carolina came too?

It went well. Not much news comes out of in-home visits...

airowe
10-06-2009, 06:32 PM
K apparently left earlier then his initial flight intended (okay well i've heard that).

Where is this info from?

WiJoe
10-06-2009, 06:33 PM
"It went well."

You are basing that on what, exactly?

Greg_Newton
10-06-2009, 06:37 PM
Barnes' coach was unaware Roy was coming...doesn't say Barnes was

Correct. I don't think I implied otherwise...


Maybe I misread the article, but it seems like it said K was unaware Williams was coming, but HB already knew.

I'm pretty sure it never says that. It says that Harrison's high school coach was unaware that Roy was coming, but that's about it.

airowe
10-06-2009, 06:39 PM
"It went well."

You are basing that on what, exactly?

Based on sources close to the program. That's really the only news I can pass on to you. As of right now, Harrison is still scheduled to take his Official Visit to Duke on October 23rd. We should all be happy that even with the full court press by Roy, this visit is still planned.

eightyearoldsdude
10-06-2009, 06:44 PM
Based on sources close to the program. That's really the only news I can pass on to you. As of right now, Harrison is still scheduled to take his Official Visit to Duke on October 23rd. We should all be happy that even with the full court press by Roy, this visit is still planned.

I've heard that he is still planning not just the Duke OV, but the others as well. So no need to check all the messageboards every 10 minutes.*


*So I tell myself.

WiJoe
10-06-2009, 06:45 PM
Based on sources close to the program. That's really the only news I can pass on to you. As of right now, Harrison is still scheduled to take his Official Visit to Duke on October 23rd. We should all be happy that even with the full court press by Roy, this visit is still planned.

lots of time between now and Oct. 23.

JaMarcus Russell
10-06-2009, 06:47 PM
As of right now, Harrison is still scheduled to take his Official Visit to Duke on October 23rd. We should all be happy that even with the full court press by Roy, this visit is still planned.


Roy seems to have some talismanic power on this board. Barnes has been seriously considering Duke for quite some time, and he even visited Duke last year.

Why would he suddenly drop Duke just because Roy showed interest in him?

DevilCastDownfromDurham
10-06-2009, 07:02 PM
Roy seems to have some talismanic power on this board. Barnes has been seriously considering Duke for quite some time, and he even visited Duke last year.

Why would he suddenly drop Duke just because Roy showed interest in him?

I'm hoping he won't. But he wouldn't be the first kid (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2056726) to surprise supposed "insiders" by going elsewhere (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1726748)before his visit (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2714846). Nor would he be the first guy who many had called a "heavy Duke lean" to jump to UNC unexpectedly (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1113108). IMO, there's a very good reason that folks are jumpy around here.

77devil
10-06-2009, 07:04 PM
Where is this info from?

Can't find the link now, but when I checked last night K's jet was wheels up about 35 minutes ahead of schedule based on the filed flight plan.

CameronBornAndBred
10-06-2009, 07:06 PM
Can't find the link now, but when I checked last night K's jet was wheels up about 35 minutes ahead of schedule.
Y'all sound like you're tracking Santa Claus on Christmas eve.

Greg_Newton
10-06-2009, 07:19 PM
Can't find the link now, but when I checked last night K's jet was wheels up about 35 minutes ahead of schedule based on the filed flight plan.

I saw that too... however, given that the Duke coaches were apparently at the house for 3 and a half hours either way, it hopefully doesn't mean much if anything.

airowe
10-06-2009, 07:37 PM
Can't find the link now, but when I checked last night K's jet was wheels up about 35 minutes ahead of schedule based on the filed flight plan.

I'm not much for tracking flights but I won't pass judgement on you for doing so. I'd check the time difference between Durham and Iowa before calculating that "early" departure.

As to the reason for simply being happy in the fact that we still have the OV, I think DCFD laid the reasons out well, but I'd add that on 10/10 we'll be at the 1 year anniversary of our last commitment (Ryan Kelly).


It's good to take pleasure in the small things in life...

roywhite
10-06-2009, 07:37 PM
Can't find the link now, but when I checked last night K's jet was wheels up about 35 minutes ahead of schedule based on the filed flight plan.

Dang K. I don't fly much, but whenever I do, I run into delays. He probably had help with his luggage, too. And an in-flight movie with American Express ads with you-know-who.

JaMarcus Russell
10-06-2009, 07:38 PM
I'm hoping he won't. But he wouldn't be the first kid (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2056726) to surprise supposed "insiders" by going elsewhere (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1726748)before his visit (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2714846). Nor would he be the first guy who many had called a "heavy Duke lean" to jump to UNC unexpectedly (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1113108). IMO, there's a very good reason that folks are jumpy around here.

So this proves that not every single player with a Duke offer signs with us. That's hardly surprising considering no school signs every target (except Duke in 2002 and maybe a handful of other exceptions). So far Roy has beaten out Duke for Wright and Leslie McDonald, who is a decent prospect. It isn't as if he has taken multiple players who loved Duke and had spoken out about how much they liked Coach K.

Lots of neutral observers seem to think that Barnes really likes Duke, and that's the kind of information that I pay attention to moreso than what "insiders" at various pay sites are saying (and that isn't in any way a hit against Watzone or any of those guys, but rather the fans who claim to have inside information about 3 big recruits every year).

When it comes to recruiting, there are two kinds of fanbases. First you have the Alabama and Tennessee football fans, along with the UK basketball fans of the past 5 months who think that every single prospect is going to come to their school. Then you have guys like the LSU football fans, who think that every committed prospect is going to jump to Alabama because one guy did that three years ago. I guess they also fall for the homerism of the other SEC fans. Reading this thread, it seems like Duke fans have really let Roy get into their heads.

77devil
10-06-2009, 08:06 PM
Dang K. I don't fly much, but whenever I do, I run into delays. He probably had help with his luggage, too. And an in-flight movie with American Express ads with you-know-who.

Flying private is the only way to go.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
10-06-2009, 08:10 PM
So this proves that not every single player with a Duke offer signs with us. That's hardly surprising considering no school signs every target (except Duke in 2002 and maybe a handful of other exceptions). So far Roy has beaten out Duke for Wright and Leslie McDonald, who is a decent prospect. It isn't as if he has taken multiple players who loved Duke and had spoken out about how much they liked Coach K.

Lots of neutral observers seem to think that Barnes really likes Duke, and that's the kind of information that I pay attention to moreso than what "insiders" at various pay sites are saying (and that isn't in any way a hit against Watzone or any of those guys, but rather the fans who claim to have inside information about 3 big recruits every year).

When it comes to recruiting, there are two kinds of fanbases. First you have the Alabama and Tennessee football fans, along with the UK basketball fans of the past 5 months who think that every single prospect is going to come to their school. Then you have guys like the LSU football fans, who think that every committed prospect is going to jump to Alabama because one guy did that three years ago. I guess they also fall for the homerism of the other SEC fans. Reading this thread, it seems like Duke fans have really let Roy get into their heads.

I think we mostly agree, especially about not relying on unreliable "insiders" and I'm on record as saying that full-time K is still the best recruiter in the business. I tend to think that Duke fans have let quite a few things get into their heads including Roy but for the reasons I've stated above I think it's entirely understandable that this has happened. We've had ludicrously bad luck with injuries, 5-star busts, and misses while things have fallen historically well for our neighbors down I-85.

But no worries, if Kyrie and Harrison come to Duke and we start catching up to the Heels and playing to our seed in March we can go back to being the arrogant, spoiled fan base that everyone loved 8 years ago. :D

77devil
10-06-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm not much for tracking flights but I won't pass judgement on you for doing so. I'd check the time difference between Durham and Iowa before calculating that "early" departure.

Dude - You can't be serious. You asked the question based on someone else's post and I simply provided the info. (2) What's your implication in your statement that you won't pass judgment, although I could not care less what you think. Furthermore the tracking information was contained in a link in another post in this thread. So what's your point. (3) I'm a Duke grad, I understand perfectly well that Iowa is central time.

ACCBBallFan
10-06-2009, 09:00 PM
It went well. Not much news comes out of in-home visits...Particularly if the HS coach was not here to leak anything as Barnes family plays it close to the vest until Barnes makes his diary public as he did after the UNC visit. That may be for OVs only though.

Bluedevil114
10-06-2009, 09:12 PM
Calm down everyone!! No one gets it. Kyrie Irving, Austin Rivers and Harrison Barnes will all commit to Duke soon after October 23rd. This is a set up and they want to all do it on the same day. That is why Kyrie waited, Harrison is playing with the Heels and Austin is just trying to figure out how he writes a break up letter to Florida. Sit back, relax and get ready to polish our fourth National Championship!!

Duvall
10-06-2009, 09:14 PM
Calm down everyone!! No one gets it. Kyrie Irving, Austin Rivers and Harrison Barnes will all commit to Duke soon after October 23rd.

I choose to believe that this is true, because it makes absolutely no difference what I think between now and then. I suggest everyone else do the same.

BlueintheFace
10-06-2009, 09:53 PM
I choose to believe that this is true, because it makes absolutely no difference what I think between now and then.

Don't sell yourself short...

duketaylor
10-06-2009, 09:58 PM
"get ready to polish our fourth National Championship!!"

Maybe fifth and sixth, as well!!

Lots of good things are close to happening, I think!!

verga
10-07-2009, 12:12 AM
i believe the Ol Roy visit after K had left hurt Duke. How can they give their undivided attention to K and his coachs, knowing full well unc will be there within the hour. It's no secret his mom loves Michael Jordan and named both of her kids after him. We will see how all of this shakes out but as for me, i'm not so sure about Barnes as i have been in the past. That doesn't mean i've given up hope on him it just means i'm more concerned than i was in the past.

SilkyJ
10-07-2009, 01:53 AM
Nothing to worry about? he came two hours later to talk to the man.

Two hours! like 120 minutes?! Lions and Tigers and Roy, oh my!


Be careful. We treated each other with more respect than this on the PPB and we got closed down.

Well in fairness to the old man, he was trying to help someone out by providing some info and was thanked with a rude response.

I guess I've never been one for politics, but until your post I didn't even realize the PPB was closed...

flyingdutchdevil
10-07-2009, 05:25 AM
I would run up and down naked if Barnes came to Duke. I would be upset if Barnes went to another school, like Kansas or Iowa St. I would, however, be devastated, cry like a school girl, and lose all faith in Duke basketball if Barnes went to UNC. Will it be a complete overreaction? Of course, but please don't tell me that everything is going to be okay. If maybe, but I will still be devastated. I also think that DBR would blow up if Barnes went to UNC.

The sentiment on Barnes has gone from "I really want this guy" to "I think we can get this guy" to "It's Kansas versus us and I think we have the upper hand" to "UNC is in the picture? No problem, we're the front runner" to "OMG!!!! %£$%@!!!! UNC is going to get Barnes!!!! This is the worst month of my life!"

oldnavy
10-07-2009, 07:26 AM
I just noticed that we play Iowa State in Chicago this year... why? Could this have anything at all to do with our recruitment of HB?

gumbomoop
10-07-2009, 08:04 AM
The vast majority of us have never seen any of these kids play -- ever -- and yet think we know something about how the kid will play at the college level, which is a totally different ballgame than high school, in many, many respects. It's ridiculous.

A minor disagreement on this particular point. Like most posters, I assume, I see the top-rated players in spring national all-star games on tv. Not much, admittedly, and while show-boat, me-first-oriented, the games do feature many clearly talented seniors. My strong enthusiasm for the coming of MP2 derives from having seen him thrice last spring. Saw him in the McD dunkaroo, and he impressed. Less obviously, but more tellingly, he exhibited multiple skills in the 2 actual games I watched. In neither game did he dominate, but he's got stuff, multi-stuff, which "mere opinion" seems to have been pretty enthusiastically seconded by several of his now-Duke-teammates.

Many years ago, must have been early '90s, I saw hs sr Grant Hill in McD game. Didn't dominate, but even as a casual fan and Duke fanatic, I could see he was special. MP2 surely won't be that special, but he's got stuff.

sandinmyshoes
10-07-2009, 09:07 AM
Williams gets recruits pulled out from under him as well. Remember that it was considered a given that Delvon Roe was going to UNC, and then suddenly chose Michigan State. What kills me is that Williams picked up Ed Davis as a kind of back up plan.

There is a lot to learn in how that worked out. We can't be sure, yet, how it will work out over four years, but right now it looks like Williams backed into getting the better player. So if RoyWilliams is this recruiting wizard, why was he not on Davis to begin with?

I realize Roe had an injury to deal with. But thinking back on it, he certainly looked the part a lot earlier than Davis. Davis was skinny and ungainly, while Roe was a wiry player with a promising frame.

I guess what I am saying with all that babble, is you just never know about these recruiting machinations how things will turn out. And, luck appears to be a strong third behind brand and hard work.

phillyheel
10-07-2009, 10:05 AM
Williams gets recruits pulled out from under him as well. Remember that it was considered a given that Delvon Roe was going to UNC, and then suddenly chose Michigan State. What kills me is that Williams picked up Ed Davis as a kind of back up plan.

There is a lot to learn in how that worked out. We can't be sure, yet, how it will work out over four years, but right now it looks like Williams backed into getting the better player. So if RoyWilliams is this recruiting wizard, why was he not on Davis to begin with?

I realize Roe had an injury to deal with. But thinking back on it, he certainly looked the part a lot earlier than Davis. Davis was skinny and ungainly, while Roe was a wiry player with a promising frame.

I guess what I am saying with all that babble, is you just never know about these recruiting machinations how things will turn out. And, luck appears to be a strong third behind brand and hard work.

I'm not sure Davis was the backup for Roe as much as he was the backup for Samardo Samuels. The good thing was that Roe made his decision early enough to allow Roy the opportunity to get a backup.

COYS
10-07-2009, 10:35 AM
I'm not sure Davis was the backup for Roe as much as he was the backup for Samardo Samuels. The good thing was that Roe made his decision early enough to allow Roy the opportunity to get a backup.

And in the case of Barnes, we're also going hard after Roscoe Smith, so we already have a backup, as well. Barnes is a more skilled player, but it sounds like Smith has a really high ceiling as well. Hopefully we'll have enough luck to land both of them, but I think everyone should relax and take heart in knowing that K and the staff are covering their bases.

Tim1515
10-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Williams gets recruits pulled out from under him as well. Remember that it was considered a given that Delvon Roe was going to UNC, and then suddenly chose Michigan State. What kills me is that Williams picked up Ed Davis as a kind of back up plan.

There is a lot to learn in how that worked out. We can't be sure, yet, how it will work out over four years, but right now it looks like Williams backed into getting the better player. So if RoyWilliams is this recruiting wizard, why was he not on Davis to begin with?

I realize Roe had an injury to deal with. But thinking back on it, he certainly looked the part a lot earlier than Davis. Davis was skinny and ungainly, while Roe was a wiry player with a promising frame.

I guess what I am saying with all that babble, is you just never know about these recruiting machinations how things will turn out. And, luck appears to be a strong third behind brand and hard work.

Also keep in mind that UNC had offers out to both Paulus and McRoberts...had those players picked UNC two guys named Ty and Tyler might never have gone to the tarheels.

BlueintheFace
10-07-2009, 10:56 AM
I just noticed that we play Iowa State in Chicago this year... why? Could this have anything at all to do with our recruitment of HB?

Fraid not. Barnes will make a fall decision in early November. The game is for Jon Scheyer so he can play in front of his friends and family.

flyingdutchdevil
10-07-2009, 11:04 AM
Fraid not. Barnes will make a fall decision in early November. The game is for Jon Scheyer so he can play in front of his friends and family.

Really? That's awesome. However, wouldn't it have made more sense to play someone like SIU?

sagegrouse
10-07-2009, 11:17 AM
Really? That's awesome. However, wouldn't it have made more sense to play someone like SIU?

Aha! Ames, Iowa, the home of the ISU Cyclones is 306 mi. from Chicago, while Carbondale, Illinois, the hometown of the SIU Salukis is 330 mi.

Also, ISU is a Big 12 team and has been a good basketball school.

sagegrouse

BlueintheFace
10-07-2009, 12:02 PM
Aha! Ames, Iowa, the home of the ISU Cyclones is 306 mi. from Chicago, while Carbondale, Illinois, the hometown of the SIU Salukis is 330 mi.

Also, ISU is a Big 12 team and has been a good basketball school.

sagegrouse

And the SIU coach believes that Duke players are "f****** animals"... actually, that was my favorite quote from last year.;)

SupaDave
10-07-2009, 12:04 PM
i believe the Ol Roy visit after K had left hurt Duke. How can they give their undivided attention to K and his coachs, knowing full well unc will be there within the hour. It's no secret his mom loves Michael Jordan and named both of her kids after him. We will see how all of this shakes out but as for me, i'm not so sure about Barnes as i have been in the past. That doesn't mean i've given up hope on him it just means i'm more concerned than i was in the past.

Jordan's own kids didn't pick UNC...

oldnavy
10-07-2009, 12:11 PM
I get the Scheyer/Illinois connection, but why play ISU? I do not remember ever playing them before. Is there a coaching connection there (Duke alum on staff)? I can't think of a reason other than to appeal to HB. I get that he will have committed by then, but surely the fact that we are playing his home town team was discussed at some point. Just wondering why them and not an IL team?

Duvall
10-07-2009, 12:12 PM
Jordan's own kids didn't pick UNC...

I think that had more to do with L.O.F.T. than anything relating to recruiting.

flyingdutchdevil
10-07-2009, 12:14 PM
Jordan's own kids didn't pick UNC...

Jordan's oldest at Illinois saw 8 minutes a game as a sophomore. If he played at UNC, I don't think he would step on the court. Also, did he even receive a scholy to play at UNC? I know that Illinois didn't give him a scholy until January 2009 (a year and a half after he stepped onto Illinois).

Jordan's youngest is going to play at UCF. I don't think UNC even recruited him.

Both players were more interested in playing time than they were in playing for their father's legacy. That makes sense. If I were a father, I would want my son to go to a school where he can get any playing time.

Barnes is different - he could step foot in the Comcast Center and easily get on the Lakers roster (I may be exaggerating, but you get my point!)

SilkyJ
10-07-2009, 12:17 PM
I would run up and down naked if Barnes came to Duke. I would be upset if Barnes went to another school, like Kansas or Iowa St. I would, however, be devastated, cry like a school girl, and lose all faith in Duke basketball if Barnes went to UNC. Will it be a complete overreaction? Of course, but please don't tell me that everything is going to be okay. If maybe, but I will still be devastated. I also think that DBR would blow up if Barnes went to UNC.

The sentiment on Barnes has gone from "I really want this guy" to "I think we can get this guy" to "It's Kansas versus us and I think we have the upper hand" to "UNC is in the picture? No problem, we're the front runner" to "OMG!!!! %£$%@!!!! UNC is going to get Barnes!!!! This is the worst month of my life!"

For your own sake, please see below from a mod.

Now from me: Chill out, dude. This stuff happens all the time. As they say, "act like you've been here before."


SHPM or SPHM - it's your choice - just don't be one...

For all reading this thread and considering adding a post, please resist the temptation to either become a Shrieking Howler Panic Monkey (SHPM, trademarked by Throatybeard, I believe) or to respond to the SHPMs.


I get the Scheyer/Illinois connection, but why play ISU? I do not remember ever playing them before. Is there a coaching connection there (Duke alum on staff)? I can't think of a reason other than to appeal to HB. I get that he will have committed by then, but surely the fact that we are playing his home town team was discussed at some point. Just wondering why them and not an IL team?

You're over thinking it. Coach K always gives seniors who stick around all 4 years a chance to play close to home, and that's what he's doing with Scheyer, period.

As for why we didn't pick an IL team, there are two likely answers: 1) B/c believe it or not, not every team is available to play us when we want, where we want so K can't just go out and pluck the team that he wants to play in Chicago. 2) K likes to simulate NCAA tournament conditions by playing on a "neutral" site (or at least close to neutral).

As for doing it to "appeal to HB," well, like so many others on in this thread you're showing your noobness.

oldnavy
10-07-2009, 02:40 PM
I agree that I do not understand the recruiting business, that is why I was asking the question is there another angle for playing ISU other than HB, like an association with the coaching staffs. I have been following Duke for many years and I do not remember playing ISU before, so it struck me as odd that we would have them show up on the schedule this year... call me a nooob if you like, I still think it is a legit question.