Get down to NCCU now to see 8 Duke players in action for free. [Archive]

stickdog

07-10-2008, 08:09 PM

http://www.ncproam.com/teamrosters.htm

Nolan Smith, Olek Czyz and Kyle Singler are playing on Barnstomers with Sean Dockery, Rasheed Wallace, Gerald Wallace and Shammond Williams.

Miles Plumlee and Jon Scheyer are playing with Raymond Felton, Sean May and PJ Tucker on Team Felton.

Lance Thomas is playing with Jerry Stackhouse, Reggie Bullock, Josh Howard, Danny Green and John Wall on the Regulators.

Elliot Williams and Steve Johnson are playing for E-Net with Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and Josh Powell.

Other competition includes Antawn Jamison, Marvin Williams, Ed Cota, David West. David Noel, Deon Thompson and Gavin Grant.

Admission is free. There are games tonight, July 15th, 17th, 22nd, 24th, 29th. 31st and August 5th from 6 to 10 PM. Playoffs run from August 9th to August 11th. Every team plays every time they play. The games are at NCCU's main McClendon-McDougald gym.

Charles Wicker

07-10-2008, 09:57 PM

Nolan Smith really looked good. If he plays like he played tonight there's no way in the world he can't start next year. I mean for a moment I was thinking how long will he be at Duke??? If he gets turned loose, look for a breakout year!

buzz

07-10-2008, 10:47 PM

Here's a July 6th excerpt from the 'Press' link at the main domain, http://www.ncproam.com

"But Miles Plumlee was a beast out there! He didn't look like much when he first stepped on the court. But after a few nasty dunks, folks sitting around watching were like, "Who's that white boy?"

Duke University's Lance Thomas and Jon Scheyer, both in the house that night, know who Plumlee is -- their new teammate. Looks like Coach K snagged a good one."

'Beast' is goooood...

Ignatius07

07-10-2008, 11:35 PM

ForeverBlowingBubbles

07-11-2008, 12:09 AM

This is the most exciting thread of the summer so far!! can't wait to hear the reviews. I might even make it down from Wilmington to watch a game. Does anyone recommend a certain day to go watch?

nicktonyg22

07-11-2008, 10:02 AM

anyone who is able to make it over to the games, please let us know how the guys are playing!

Edouble

07-11-2008, 11:04 AM

Yes, as ForeverBlowingBubbles said earlier, this is the most exciting thread of the summer.

I take it that Oiek Olden is actually Olek Czyz?

Can Black Magic possibly compete in this league? Their tallest player is 6'6". That guy's gotta guard Rasheed, are you kidding me?

If I were in town, I would be there every night. For anyone that goes, game notes would be great.

BlueintheFace

07-11-2008, 11:35 AM

This is SO COOL.... Everybody who makes their way over PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE write all of your impressions for those of us in other time zones!!!

kramerbr

07-11-2008, 12:08 PM

Is there video footage anywhere on the web of this league? If anyone wants to take some video of it as well that would be greatly appreciated :D.

wisteria

07-11-2008, 12:28 PM

Elliot Williams highlights in the pick-up game (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M5eQO76XP9c&feature=related)

MChambers

07-11-2008, 03:59 PM

Word is that Nick Horvath is just killing everyone in these games.;)

El_Diablo

07-11-2008, 07:11 PM

Everyone's favorite "Pro" is there too!

Maktar Ndiaye

If for no other reason, you should go just to heckle him...

dukemomLA

07-12-2008, 03:24 AM

PLEASE keep this thread going and provide thoughts and observations for those of us far afield. Great stuff. (Makes the ....sigh...months until BB season go much faster. Thanks!

bludvlman

07-12-2008, 06:10 PM

anywhere i could get a box score for these games?

Bob Green

07-12-2008, 08:05 PM

This is as close as I could come to finding box scores:

http://www.stocksurfphotos.com/

Elliot Williams scored 34 points on July 8th. Miles Plumlee has had a 20 point game, and Olek Czyz has went for 24 & 25.

stickdog

07-12-2008, 08:20 PM

Standings & Leading Scorers For Each Game:

http://www.ncproam.com/standings.htm

High scorers so far

34 EWilliams
32 HFain
28 HFain
27 BIngram
26 CMayshack
25 OCzyz
24 OCzyz
24 RClemmons
22 NSmith
22 DGreen
22 RClemmons
22 JZimmerman
20 MPlumlee
20 RBullock
20 GGrant
20 HFain
20 JGrady
18 EWilliams
18 CTyrance
17 MPlumlee
17 RClemmons

Looks like Stackhouse should change the name to the Duke Incoming Frosh League.

moonpie23

07-12-2008, 09:48 PM

sheed should get that head fixed...

Carlos

07-13-2008, 12:49 AM

Wow... there's a lot of names on those rosters. In addition to the names that Stickdog listed there's also William Graves from the current UNC roster, Melvin Scott who played on the Heels' Championship team in 2005, CJ Leslie who is headed to NC State in 2010, and Anthony Grundy who played at State. One other name on the list is Ricky Clemons. If that sounds vaguely familiar he's the guy who played for Quin at Missouri and was the key figure in the mess that resulted in Snyder's firing.

I'm wondering how many of these guys are actually showing up to play. Have Rasheed or Josh Howard actually been on the court?

Nice to see Plumlee and Czyz having big games.

bludvlman

07-13-2008, 01:54 AM

so i take it there is NO defense in these games.

stickdog

07-13-2008, 01:55 AM

Stackhouse, Howard, Felton and Shammond Williams have played. I don't know about the other big pro names. Maybe later. Pro-am summer league teams are notorious for having more NBA players on their rosters than on the floor for a typical game.

However, if you are a Duke fan living near Durham, you have no excuse if you don't get out there to see the incoming frosh putting on a free show against quality competition.

Edouble

07-13-2008, 11:51 AM

so i take it there is NO defense in these games.

No sir, you can not take that with you into this gymnasium.

DevilDan

07-13-2008, 12:26 PM

Seeing Czyz, Plumlee, and Williams producing against this competition is VERY encouraging. Sure, it is summer league ... and of course, there's only so much "D-ing Up", unless the game is on the line at the end.

But playing in this league, measuring their level of success against older, stronger, more experienced opponents has got to be a positive experience this month and next ...... with CIS just a few miles away.

Thanks to Bob Green for the link to the league -- I'm all over this for the next few weeks. Anybody who picks up on the latest info & smack on our guys, PLEASE post here, so we DEVIL fans from 3,000 miles west can get the scoop ! Thanks ...

Edouble

07-13-2008, 12:35 PM

Seeing Czyz, Plumlee, and Williams producing against this competition is VERY encouraging. Sure, it is summer league ... and of course, there's only so much "D-ing Up", unless the game is on the line at the end.

But playing in this league, measuring their level of success against older, stronger, more experienced opponents has got to be a positive experience this month and next ...... with CIS just a few miles away.

Somewhat akin to throwing down against Marathon Oil?

NovaScotian

07-13-2008, 01:24 PM

Word is that Nick Horvath is just killing everyone in these games.;)

i hear patrick davidson has been kicking butt too

ForeverBlowingBubbles

07-13-2008, 06:03 PM

I'm so disappointed. I keep checking this thread hoping someone from the triangle has gone to watch and is back with a report...

Edouble

07-13-2008, 08:21 PM

I'm so disappointed. I keep checking this thread hoping someone from the triangle has gone to watch and is back with a report...

Me too. I got excited when I saw that there was a new post up, but was disappointed when I read it (it was your post). :(

poobear

07-13-2008, 08:28 PM

Don't think they play again until July 15th.Probably nothing new to post until then.
Does anyone know if you can park near the gym or do you have to hike in from somewhere further away?I've never been there but I'm thinking about going one evening this week.I Hope.

allenmurray

07-14-2008, 11:26 AM

Parking around NCCU is difficult, and they are pretty aggressvie about ticketing. That being said, it is summer time, so it is not as crowded. You can park in one of the residential neighborhoods off campus and have no more than a 15 minute walk.

phaedrus

07-14-2008, 04:05 PM

i hear patrick davidson has been kicking butt too

Actually, Team Patrick Davidson has lost 2 of 3 games. Of course, he's the only one on the team, so I guess it's not so bad.

juise

07-14-2008, 04:27 PM

Actually, Team Patrick Davidson has lost 2 of 3 games. Of course, he's the only one on the team, so I guess it's not so bad.

Correction: Team Patrick Davidson has chosen not to win 2 out of 3 games. The only team that beats Team Patrick Davidson is Team Patrick Davidson.

ForeverBlowingBubbles

07-15-2008, 01:15 AM

balkan boy

07-15-2008, 01:51 AM

Correction: Team Patrick Davidson has chosen not to win 2 out of 3 games. The only team that beats Team Patrick Davidson is Team Patrick Davidson.

Sooooooo, like Ademola Okulaja, Patrick Davidson beats himself???.....

VaDukie

07-15-2008, 10:02 AM

I'll be catching the 7 & 8 PM games tonight so I'll be able to see everyone but E-Will. Anyone or anything in particular you guys would like me to watch for?

BlueintheFace

07-15-2008, 10:49 AM

I'll be catching the 7 & 8 PM games tonight so I'll be able to see everyone but E-Will. Anyone or anything in particular you guys would like me to watch for?

If you could please give us an idea of---

1) Do you see any new/improved elements to returning players' game?
2) How are the incoming players getting their points (where on the floor... are three's dropping?)
3) We get points/gm stats, but we have no idea how many shots these guys are jacking up... are the players scoring efficiently or not?
4) How much time do Olek and Miles spend on the low block posting up?

... basically, just give us a feel for how the players are looking... thanks and have fun

micah75

07-15-2008, 10:55 AM

I'll be catching the 7 & 8 PM games tonight so I'll be able to see everyone but E-Will. Anyone or anything in particular you guys would like me to watch for?

Is Olek scoring mostly on dunks? Does he have some low post moves in his repertoire? How are his hands?

Same for Miles, I guess, plus their defense and aggressiveness in getting boards.

Oh, and if you hear Czyz's name uttered out loud, is it being pronounced "Chizz" or "Shizz." Thankyou.

BlueintheFace

07-15-2008, 11:01 AM

Oh, and if you hear Czyz's name uttered out loud, is it being pronounced "Chizz" or "Shizz." Thankyou.

I'm almost positive it is pronounced "zizz"... but I agree... let's get a ruling here.

Bluedog

07-15-2008, 11:10 AM

I'm almost positive it is pronounced "zizz"... but I agree... let's get a ruling here.

It's pronounced Chizz as far as I can tell.

http://www.wkyt.com/sports/headlines/7949157.html
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34293&postcount=7
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=46193&postcount=19

quickgtp

07-15-2008, 12:46 PM

Just think "cheese whiz" combined: CHIZZ.

Sorry I had to say it!:rolleyes:

VaDukie

07-15-2008, 08:46 PM

Quick reports on our guys:

Elliot - showed a good ability to finish in the lane with both hands. Had a sick dunk early in the game and afterwards anytime he was contested on a fast break he was fouled. Nailed a couple outside shots and showed a good ability to get to the basket. Dribbles well with both hands. Had some bad shots/passes but it's to be expected in a game like this.

Nolan - went down halfway through the 1st half trying to finish an alley-oop, causing instant panic to every Duke fan in the audience. He sat out the rest of the game and had ice on his right ankle, so hopefully it's nothing serious.

Singler - looks like he put on at least 10 pounds of muscle. Used his hands very well defensively, starting of his game with a solid block (Dare I say it? - Battieresque). Did everything you'd expect him to do - run the fast break, hit outside shots, make good passes, etc.

Plumlee - He never got the chance to showcase his abilities in his game. The guards on his team had a habit for jacking up 25 foot three's (I'm not exaggerating) so he rarely got the ball in the post. The only thing you could reasonably take away from his performance is he lacks upper body strength. There's not much else I could take away from his performance so I'll be excited to see him in the next couple games.

And finally, OLEK CZYZ

First, I'll say that he showed a good first step and decent quickness with the ball. Brought the ball up the court once and looked comfortable (given without real defensive pressure). He was guarding Plumlee for most of the game and since he never got the ball it's hard to gauge his abilities on that end.

Then there was the dunking. Oh my goodness.

From my count, he had 4 dunks when the game was actually competitive (His team won handily and the last 3-4 minutes were just a dunk contest). He had a left-handed windmill on a fastbreak towards the end of the first half that brought the crowd to its feet. He had two dunks in the halfcourt where he bobbled the initial pass (needs to work on his hands) but was still able to finish - a luxury he may not have when faced with real inside competition.

Towards the end when the game turned into a dunk contest, he was the clear winner. I really wish I could specifically recall what they were but they all started to blend together in the cheers and screams.

When the game ended, Olek grabbed the ball and did a 360 under the legs dunk that blew the roof off. Even those in UNC gear were standing and cheering. About a minute later he threw the ball , caught it off the bounce, took it between his legs and threw it down. The entire crowd went nuts again and about half a dozen little kids started crowding around him for high-fives and possibly autographs. The amazing thing is it didn't even look like he was trying. He gets up effortlessly.

So, we don't know what he can do in the post on the offensive or defensive end, but that was more the nature of the game than his abilities. But one thing is for sure - he can finish and he looks physically ready to play. Whether or not he can handle the game speed of the ACC or develop his hands is yet to be seen, but I came away impressed.

Lance was set to play in the 8PM game but my ride had to leave before that game started, so hopefully other will fill in on his night. Feel free to ask questions, I'll answer to the best of my ability.

BlueintheFace

07-15-2008, 09:03 PM

I think I speak for all of us VaDukie when I say-- You are awesome. Thanks for the report.

Taco

07-15-2008, 09:55 PM

VaDukie's account meshes pretty well with what I saw. I missed the first game with Elliot Williams and only stayed for half of Lance's game.

First things first, I saw Nolan walking out of the gym under his own power, and secured a thumbs up and an "I'm fine" so I think we can stop worrying. He came down pretty weird though, and had to be carried off. Definitely a scary moment.

Miles Plumlee got no love from his teammates and even less from Kyle Singler ... Kyle showed no mercy! Hopefully a welcome lesson on how the ACC works. He's taller than I expected. Seemed to alternate between being timid and really wanting to showcase his skills. Sadly his team didn't give him much of a chance.

Kyle definitely looks bigger, at times almost barrel-chested. Certainly not something I would have said a year ago. Other than that not too much to say, he's still Kyle Singler.

Olek Czyz, oh my goodness. VaDukie summed it up but WOW. Saw him signing some shoes after his game, he's going to be a fan favorite for sure. He did get a little bobbly with the ball sometimes. I think the month of February may be a real test for him in his freshman year (suppose it is for all freshmen), but he'll dazzle you in November.

Lance -- nothing to report. No additional bulk to speak of, which I was hoping for. He mostly seemed a little bored.

My debut into sports photography saw me mostly forgetting that I had a camera and wanted to take pictures. I did finally manage to snag a blurry one of Olek's encore dunk. It ain't much but here it is click for fullsize-

http://g.photos.cx/czyzsmall-10.jpg (http://g.photos.cx/czyzbig-46.jpg)

Brian12215

07-15-2008, 10:07 PM

I just got back as well. Here are my thoughts.

E-Will - Played a good game. Very explosive and athletic. Finished with 29-31 points. Had a few boards, steals, and assists. His team got down by almost 20 and ended up losing by two.

Nolan - Played good for about 8 minutes and then he got hurt. I talked to him after the game and he said he will be fine and it is nothing major. Does look like he gained a little wait.

Kyle - Played an all around great game. Scored inside and out. Rebounded well. Blocked shots. He did it all. What I was most impressed with however is how big he looked. He had definitely put on some weight and he looks pretty jacked. That should definitely help him next season.

Miles - Struggled a bit tonight but you can tell he is an athletic big. I'm still excited to have him.

Olek - WOW, what a fun guy to watch. He tries to dunk everything and usually does. I'm still not going to say he will play a ton this year but he definitely brings it in the post. On one possesion he banged his man all the way down the baseline and then he just dunked on him. I loved it. It just looked so mean. He even tried a one step through the legs dunk....in the game.....on Miles...! He got bumped and it didn't work but still....you get the picture. After the game is when all heck broke loose. A guy from the other team dunked wth no time left. Then, in response, Olek proceeded to a 360 through the legs dunk. The crown went bezerk. Then the other guy went again. After that Shammond Williams gave Olek the ball and was like "Show this guy." Olek proceeded to throw down a monsterous dunk. GAME OVER Crowd was going crazy. Kids were running over to him. Shammond did the next chop.....and the other guy walked off. Again, I don't know how much he will play this year because you have to do more than dunk, but I wouldn't count him out.

Lance - Stayed for a half and he played pretty well. Rebounded well and hit his free throw after an "and one."

Please believe me when I say that if you can make it......GO!! Take some litlte ones, they will love it! I had a blast.

Also, just remember we are watching glorified pick-up basketball. It will be hard to see it will transfer over to the real thing in the fall. But I will say on thing it is definitely fun to watch.

Dukie4Life

07-15-2008, 10:23 PM

I was in attendance tonight for three games! I did not get to see Lance Thomas play however he looked like he put on some weight during the off season.

In game one Elliott Williams and Steve Johnson played together. Williams played well. Its hard to gauge defense since there is none played, however I saw some great passing and a great looking shot from him!

In game two it was the Olek Czyz show! Kyle played a solid game and has also put on some weight. Miles Plumlee played well, although I think maybe slightly injured. Nolan Smith got hurt in the first 8 minutes of the game, however when I spoke with him after the game he was all smiles and very positive. All of us there thought it might be an ACL at until we saw ice on the ankle all seems to be well. Jon Scheyer did not play tonight and Greg Paulus was also in attendance!

Over all as Duke fans we should be incredibly excited about this coming season! Everyone seems to be well conditioned and ready to play. Chemsitry will not be an issue at all this year!

If anyone has any info on the last game please let me know!

dkbaseball

07-15-2008, 10:54 PM

Whether or not he can handle the game speed of the ACC or develop his hands is yet to be seen

In 12 high school games I never noticed a problem with Olek's hands. I'm inclined to think tonight might have been an aberration in that department. Certainly he's got an excellent handle for a big, very similar to Kyle and Josh. And my distinct impression is that he plays better the faster the speed of the game. When he doesn't have time to think about it, he'll dribble between his legs and knock down threes.

The more I think about it, the more I like the comparison of Olek to Joe Alexander, who tested out as a freakish athlete at the NBA pre-draft camps and saw his stock soar. I think Olek is naturally bulkier and stronger than Alexander, more explosive, probably jumps better, and has more polished skills as a freshman.

I've been telling you for six months, folks -- get excited about this guy. He's the real deal.

StDukie42

07-16-2008, 12:45 AM

I too was at the game and had a blast...(hit up main street with some friends for JJ trivia night and just got back)
I took detailed notes during the first two games and will try to send an update tomorrow...
But I want to post a few observations that might be a value add.
1. Singler is a beast...He looked bigger, stronger, and smarter than anyone on the court. The ball always seemed to find his hands and he was in total control. I believe he could have done whatever he wanted in the game. He even communicated on the court directing his teammates where to go.
2. Nolan's ankle is ok...The injury looked serious, however, I ran into him as he was leaving after the game...I shook his hand and asked him how he was doing. He was walking with ice on his foot, but all smiles on his face. As we were leaving I saw him in his car driving home (the lady his was with was riding shotgun so he must have felt good enought to drive)
3. E-Will was clutch. I tracked his stats and he shot well over 60% with a few circus type jump shots. Though he had a few turnovers, he was by far the star of his team that included the NBA's Josh Powell and NCSU's Brandon Coster (who looked lazy on the court!) He really picked up his play at the end
4. Olek was the highlight of the night. I echo the comments of the previous posters. He ATTACKED the basket everytime he got the ball and is clearly not afraid of contact. He actually threw down a few one handed jams in traffic that got the crowd on its feet (first standing ovation of the night). However, the show truly started later in what was actually a response to one of the other teams players trying to upstage him. After watching the guy through down a nice dunk off the backboard, Olek grabbed the ball and proceeded to through down two 360 between the legs dunks, one from each side of the court (and using his right then left hand). The corwd loved him.

We had to leave after the second night, but make no mistake, Olek truly impressed everyone in that GYM. Can't wait for thursday.

Please feel free to follow up with any questions.

Go Duke!

bludvlman

07-16-2008, 01:03 AM

Is Miles a lot like McRoberts? I've heard that a lot.

whereinthehellami

07-16-2008, 08:21 AM

Thanks for the reports! Keep them coming.

VaDukie

07-16-2008, 08:42 AM

In 12 high school games I never noticed a problem with Olek's hands. I'm inclined to think tonight might have been an aberration in that department. Certainly he's got an excellent handle for a big, very similar to Kyle and Josh. And my distinct impression is that he plays better the faster the speed of the game. When he doesn't have time to think about it, he'll dribble between his legs and knock down threes.

The more I think about it, the more I like the comparison of Olek to Joe Alexander, who tested out as a freakish athlete at the NBA pre-draft camps and saw his stock soar. I think Olek is naturally bulkier and stronger than Alexander, more explosive, probably jumps better, and has more polished skills as a freshman.

I've been telling you for six months, folks -- get excited about this guy. He's the real deal.

I think physically he can certainly handle the speed of the ACC game, but having good decision making within the context of the game is something every freshmen has to go through. I'm not 100% sold on him, but I am very, very optimistic he will be surprising a lot of people and seeing a lot more than spot minutes on the court.

It will only take one open look at the basket to make him an INSTANT fan favorite. His finishes are that good. Prepare the youtube clips!

micah75

07-16-2008, 09:29 AM

Yes, thanks for the reports everybody who attended. That photo above showing Olek about to dunk... wow, he really gets up. Maybe it's just the camera angle, but it looks like his head is nearly even with the rim.

And dkbaseball, I'm excited about Olek. I trust your scouting reports. I'm not expecting him to become an instant star or anything. But, I do believe that he has the potential make a significant contribution this coming season. If nothing else, I like the fact that he can finish very strong around the basket. Anything else is gravy.

3211

07-16-2008, 09:32 AM

could you guys point me in the direction of a schedule for these games? I'd love to get over to durham to check it out.

Huh?

07-16-2008, 09:37 AM

Just read the post about Olek, got goose bumps.

bludvlman

07-16-2008, 09:42 AM

could you guys point me in the direction of a schedule for these games? I'd love to get over to durham to check it out.

Its every Tuesday starting at 7 I think.

riverside6

07-16-2008, 09:53 AM

could you guys point me in the direction of a schedule for these games? I'd love to get over to durham to check it out.

This link has the schedule...

http://www.ncproam.com/proamSchedule.htm

BlueintheFace

07-16-2008, 11:02 AM

Here is a video of Olek with his last dunk last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVAZibid6Xg

Also

RDU Barnstormers vs. Team Felton game. RDU is green and Felton is white.
RDU-Singler#5, Czyz#6, and Nolan#8.
Felton-Plumlee#10.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iMLgWLoinys

http://youtube.com/watch?v=A5tDT35allw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gSDuPVuG8CY

Edouble

07-16-2008, 11:13 AM

Thank you to everyone that posted. I, for one, will not get tired of reading game reports, if anyone has anything else to add at any point this summer. The news on OLek is exciting, but the good word on Singler is equally thrilling for me.

Wander

07-16-2008, 11:22 AM

The news on OLek is exciting, but the good word on Singler is equally thrilling for me.

Yup. Czyz doing what he's doing is fun, but we all already knew he could dunk; Singler's adding muscle to me is the best news to come out of these games.

KShip21

07-16-2008, 11:47 AM

Does anyone have any news on Scheyer's performance so far? I saw that he did not play in his last game.

SMO

07-16-2008, 12:15 PM

I read that Nolan Smith's father grew several inches while in college. Does Nolan look any taller this year?

VaDukie

07-16-2008, 12:44 PM

I don't think Scheyer has played in any games thus far, hopefully that will change. Nolan looks the same height as before.

wisteria

07-16-2008, 02:29 PM

has Scheyer been sighted lately on campus? My boss's son went to Coach K camp some days ago and was very disappointed that Scheyer wasn't there. I am getting worried ( or paranoid ) whether he's injured.

west_coast_devil

07-16-2008, 06:10 PM

Man, do I wish I could attend........living in California is such a drag

-jk

07-16-2008, 06:52 PM

Man, do I wish I could attend........living in California is such a drag

I feel your pain. I lived in LA for a couple of years in the early 90's. Before DBR. Before Juliovision. Before the internet as we know it today, even. Just CompuServe and the wire services: AP and (now I'm really dating myself!) UPI.

I had a snail-mail subscription to the Durham Morning Herald, pre-merger w/ The Durham Sun - Keith Drum/Al Featherston rather than Frank Dascenzo (aka Frank No Sense-o). The papers arrived about four days after publication; it sucked, but was better than nothing. Barely!, but better, nonetheless.

You have no idea how good you have it! (And I walked a mile to school. Uphill each way. In the snow. And Bill Werber served the beer.)

Doug Hinds (see the "...aka Doug Hinds and the Rubber Chicken" thread) used to record his law school lectures so he could listen as he drove from PA to NC - and back - for weeknight (and weekend, too) games. I only have to get from DC and back.

True fandom knows no bounds. (David and Deryl, I'm sure you agree, yes?)

-jk

west_coast_devil

07-16-2008, 08:00 PM

No internet and old newspapers......ok, you got me there.:cool:

speedevil

07-16-2008, 11:39 PM

elliot looks like he was guarding the point in that clip and handling the ball on offense

dukeENG2003

07-17-2008, 12:26 PM

Going to the games tonight, I'm excited to see the Olek Czyz show!

Dr. Rosenrosen

07-17-2008, 05:14 PM

Would like to check this out if I can. Does anyone who has been going to the games have any parking suggestions?

VaDukie

07-17-2008, 06:43 PM

Would like to check this out if I can. Does anyone who has been going to the games have any parking suggestions?

To the left of the stadium are a number of residential streets with available parking. Basically follow the herd of others and you'll find spots.

VaDukie

07-17-2008, 08:46 PM

Just got back from tonight's games. I caught the last 10 minutes of Elliot's game and the full game with Singler and Olek.

Elliot - once again displayed his superb ability to finish at the rim. Will dunk if he gets the chance but he has the body control to absorb contact and finish using the glass.

Singler - in something of a funk tonight. He was on the receiving end on a number of bad calls and seemed just a step slow at times. He did hit what was the go-ahead 3 pointer with about 3 minutes left.

Olek - didn't bring the highlight reel like Tuesday night but played a very solid offensive game. Hit a 3, another jumper from the top of the key, and (I believe) all of his free throws. He did have one solid dunk at the end of the 1st half. I have a friend who has pretty good video of it, I'll post a link when he gets it on youtube.

ForeverBlowingBubbles

07-17-2008, 08:59 PM

It sounds like Elliot Williams is looking like he has some 'Star Power'.

dukiedevil89

07-17-2008, 09:23 PM

Is it super busy that you have to get there early to get seats?

dkbaseball

07-17-2008, 09:29 PM

According to the tournament website's blog, Olek's team won, as did E-Mail's. Olek was leading scorer with 22 of his team's 66 points, and E-mail led his team with 22. That's at least three games over 20 points and one highlight reel extravaganza in five games played for Olek. There is a video on the website of a Raleigh station sportscast, and the reporter says "a pair of Dukies have been stealing the show." That would be Olek and E-Mail. Came up with a nifty (IMO) nickname for Olek -- "the Power Pole."

Bluedog

07-17-2008, 09:37 PM

Is it super busy that you have to get there early to get seats?

Looking at the youtube clips of the tournament, it looks like the gym is mostly empty (although I haven't been able to go myself). So, no, you do not have to get there early. I was actually surprised at the crowd....I figured there'd be a lot more people.

Carlos

07-17-2008, 11:21 PM

It's a good crowd for a summer league game but you certainly don't need to worry about getting a seat. Worry more about getting a parking spot than anything else.

The PA announcer avoids any attempt at pronouncing "Czyz" and instead just refers to him as "OC."

I'm surprised that Czyz was credited with 22 points tonight. If he scored 22 points it was a quiet 22 - even with the monster dunk.

OC does bring a buzz to the court. When he gets the ball you can feel the excitement in the crowd because of the way he attacks the rim. A safe bet would be that he will lead the league in charges per minutes played.

Bob Green

07-17-2008, 11:47 PM

A safe bet would be that he will lead the league in charges per minutes played.

Another summertime thread ruined by a voice of reason. :D Seriously, if Czyz can learn our defensive scheme, he should earn some PT due to his aggressive nature and ability to shoot free throws.

SupaDave

07-17-2008, 11:57 PM

dkbaseball

07-18-2008, 12:02 AM

A safe bet would be that he will lead the league in charges per minutes played.

Yeah, that aspect of his game was certainly evident in high school. He's determined to attack at all times, and sometimes does so without much of an idea how it's going to turn out. That's where Wojo can earn his paycheck -- teaching Olek a few reliable post moves. He has a lot of work to do on his footwork down low on both ends of the court, but once he does here's what we're going to have: the best open court player on the team -- running the floor, passing the ball down the court, catching it and finishing -- and one of the best in the country, who is also the best down low banger on the team. I submit that is an extremely rare combination.

I'm getting the 22 points from the website's blog.

altitech

07-18-2008, 12:30 AM

Local ABC 11 game highlights + interviews:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/media?id=6272064

FireOgilvie

07-18-2008, 12:34 AM

Apparently his name is Olek "CHUZZ"

watzone

07-18-2008, 12:50 AM

altitech

07-18-2008, 01:31 AM

"The Power Pole"

DevilDan

07-18-2008, 02:49 AM

As Dickie V will no doubt soon be saying ( here it comes, guys -- ready ? )

" OHHHH, he's going to be a VERY SPECIAL PLAYER at DUKE . . ! "

And this time, I think he may be CORRECT. Olek is going to earn some minutes and thrill some people. I can't wait.

watzone

07-18-2008, 02:50 AM

Tuesday night blurb and pics - http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/

DevilDan

07-18-2008, 02:53 AM

In addition, THIS thought just popped up from my memory bank:

From Dickie V, a few short years ago: " Uh-Oh, MAGGETTE-O ! "

I think we now have a guy who can excite Duke fans in THAT WAY again . . .

Bluedog

07-18-2008, 01:05 PM

Apparently his name is Olek "CHUZZ"

Not sure if that's a joke from the TV interview, but his name is pronounced "Chiz." I first mentioned that in a Blue Devil Weekly article when he signed. With all the confusion, I asked him tonight and he said the pronunciation I had is correct. FWIW, the scorekeepers didn't even tackle his name. They listed his name as something I couldn't make out and of course O.C. has stuck.

Listening to the abclocal interview, I would spell the pronounciation with a "U" too potentially. When I saw "Chiz," I expected a harsher "I" than what Olek actually says. Maybe that's because I'm from Chicago. Although it's also quite a soft "u" and the "u" could also be misleading. Also, it's not the typical "ch" we expect, more of a morph of "Sh" and "Ch" - but obviously I don't speak Polish well. :D

On another note, I was impressed with Elliot's (admittedly 15 sec) interview. Seems like a really grounded guy.

dukeENG2003

07-18-2008, 02:29 PM

his name is pronounced "Chiz."

Hmm, I thought it was like "Siz" before. Looks like my "I'm too Czyzxy for my shirt" sign for him will have to go. . .

riverside6

07-18-2008, 02:34 PM

It appears to be the same pronunciation as the first syllable in Coach K's last name, except with the CH sound instead of the SH sound.

altitech

07-18-2008, 04:53 PM

I like Czyzzle (sizzle or chisel) both seem apropriate.

someone posted this on youtube from 7/17:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSifK8SXgXM

DevilDan

07-18-2008, 09:28 PM

Hmm, I thought it was like "Siz" before. Looks like my "I'm too Czyzxy for my shirt" sign for him will have to go. . .

This has GOT to be the POST of the WEEK. I laughed until I cried !

Great Job .... Go OLEK .... GO DUKE !

ForeverBlowingBubbles

07-20-2008, 06:43 AM

no mas? no bueno. Gracias though to everyone. good show.

BlueintheFace

07-20-2008, 08:43 AM

Or, "Hey Roy, you don't know CZYT!"
Or, "Olek is the CZYT"

...I don't know if that is appropriate for the board or not (mods please check me), but I can guarantee there will be quite a few shirts like that amongst the crazies...

SupaDave

07-20-2008, 11:37 AM

You guys really need to take in some poolside time. LOL!

micah75

07-20-2008, 09:27 PM

A couple of highlights of Williams and Czyz from the summer league, along with a brief interview with both players:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/media?id=6272064

Also, Czyz was asked point blank how to pronounce his last name. It came out sounding more like "choosh" than "chizz." Hmm... unless I heard wrong.

mgtr

07-20-2008, 09:30 PM

^As in, we choozh Czyz!

BLUEDEVILS

07-20-2008, 10:19 PM

This is pretty awesome to see. I heard that Tyler Hansbrough and Bobby Frasor would have been there but they were at a camp for kids in Greenville, South Carolina.

Edouble

07-21-2008, 01:20 AM

This is pretty awesome to see. I heard that Tyler Hansbrough and Bobby Frasor would have been there but they were at a camp for kids in Greenville, South Carolina.

Is this one of those camps where they dive into pools of frozen peas?

bludvlman

07-22-2008, 09:27 AM

dcarp23

07-22-2008, 09:31 AM

one bad thing about that video he looks to be a good 1 or 2 inches shorter than Singler when he is standing by him.

Well, he is listed at 6'7 while Singler has been listed at 6'8 or 6'9.

kramerbr

07-22-2008, 09:40 AM

one bad thing about that video he looks to be a good 1 or 2 inches shorter than Singler when he is standing by him.

One good thing about the video is that he can jump out of the gym. Which should make up for the one bad thing.

Huh?

07-22-2008, 06:32 PM

This is pretty awesome to see. I heard that Tyler Hansbrough and Bobby Frasor would have been there but they were at a camp for kids in Greenville, South Carolina.

they are too busy hanging out at Reddogs.

ForeverBlowingBubbles

07-22-2008, 06:39 PM

they are too busy hanging out at Reddogs.

Saw Steph Curry there a few months back too... Think he was a little young to be drinking...

watzone

07-23-2008, 02:34 AM

Here is a blurb with pics from last evenings Pro Am - http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/

Elliot took it to the rim and was challenged by Danny Green who got the block and the foul as Williams hit the dect as time expired in the first half. Green got the worst of it coming away with a busted mouth.

RainingThrees

07-23-2008, 02:51 AM

Elliot team isn't doing so hot. It seems like him and Josh Powell are the only ones doing anything. Where is lawson and Ellington?

billy

07-23-2008, 08:01 PM

In the blurb provided by Watzone, Smith sat out last week and was nursing his knee last night. Bad news if it's the same knee as bother him last season- anyone have any more info?

SupaDave

07-25-2008, 10:48 AM

In the blurb provided by Watzone, Smith sat out last week and was nursing his knee last night. Bad news if it's the same knee as bother him last season- anyone have any more info?

I heard he was AWESOME last night.

RainingThrees

07-25-2008, 01:40 PM

15 points for him and Olek. I really wish there was a boxscore so I could see free throw and 3 %.

watzone

07-25-2008, 02:46 PM

I heard he was AWESOME last night.

http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/

The link is from last evenings action

roywhite

07-25-2008, 03:56 PM

Good writeup and photos of our guys. Thanks to watzone and others who have attended and shared their observations.

3rd Dukie

07-25-2008, 09:09 PM

http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/

The link is from last evenings action

I really appreciate your reports.

dukiedevil89

07-26-2008, 12:22 AM

did anybody notice that Jon Scheyer is no longer listed in the roster on the website? does anybody know why he is no longer playing?

watzone

07-30-2008, 10:39 PM

In a surprise, Gerald Henderson hit the floor for the first time in public after his surgery.

http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/category/duke-basketball/

RainingThrees

07-30-2008, 10:59 PM

Please Gerald don't shave your head again!

Edouble

07-30-2008, 11:01 PM

In a surprise, Gerald Henderson hit the floor for the first time in public after his surgery.

http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/category/duke-basketball/

Awesome article, thank you!

Looks like "OC" is catching on as a nickname, I guess we'll see if it sticks.

MLeeJr

07-31-2008, 12:24 AM

I'm heading down tomorrow to check the boys out. My second "Live" Duke action - lifetime. Can't wait!

watzone

07-31-2008, 04:07 PM

I'm heading down tomorrow to check the boys out. My second "Live" Duke action - lifetime. Can't wait! The games start at 6:00 tonight and end next week.

jimsumner

07-31-2008, 04:47 PM

"The games start at 6:00 tonight and end next week."

Goodness, that's going to be a long game. Hope they stay hydrated. :)

watzone

08-01-2008, 01:18 PM

"The games start at 6:00 tonight and end next week."

Goodness, that's going to be a long game. Hope they stay hydrated. :)

Okay, Jim ....

Here is a link to last evenings action http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/ where the BDN is sharing the info with all Blue Devil fans.

Carefully trying to figure out how not to allude to what I do;)

Indoor66

08-01-2008, 02:35 PM

Carefully trying to figure out how not to allude to what I do;)

Allow it to speak for itself. :)

dkbaseball

08-01-2008, 03:04 PM

Okay, Jim ....

Here is a link to last evenings action http://bluedevilnation.wordpress.com/ where the BDN is sharing the info with all Blue Devil fans.

Carefully trying to figure out how not to allude to what I do;)

The league's website has RDU Barnstormers winning by a point. Other accounts have Czyz with a field goal and six boards.

watzone

08-02-2008, 10:50 AM

The league's website has RDU Barnstormers winning by a point. Other accounts have Czyz with a field goal and six boards.

You are right in that the Barnstormers won. I had to relay a few things in the very late evening. As for the scoring, mine was confirmed qith the official scorers table. I suppose they could get it wrong as well.

Newton_14

08-02-2008, 10:14 PM

Awesome article, thank you!

Looks like "OC" is catching on as a nickname, I guess we'll see if it sticks.

"OC" is becoming set in stone, it appears... 850 The Buzz has been reporting on the games and all of the "Buzz" is about Eliot and "OC"... I caught Bomani Jones on the ride home Friday evening and he said OC has become "THE" fan favorite no matter the school or team affiliation of the crowd. He said on one play Thursday, Olek was a wing man on a 3 on 2 break and the crowd rose to their feet, only to moan in agony when the pass went to the other guy and he scored.. Bomani said they about booed the passer out of the gym.. The report was that OC has one thing on his mind when attacking the basket and that is to dunk on anyone in the way, and he does that really well.. but that he has work to do on footwork and rebounding... Looking forward to watching this kid develop..

As for Eliot, the report was that he is the real deal and immediate impact player. Very smooth with the ball, very good shooter, is great at finishing when he penetrates, and finally, the best compliment of all given to Eliot, is that he is a lock-down defender.. I am hoping all of that turns out to be on the money.. I am hoping to get out there this week and see for myself!

Bob Green

08-02-2008, 11:11 PM

...the best compliment of all given to Eliot, is that he is a lock-down defender...

The reports I've been seeing on Elliot's defense are music to my ears. I too hope that Elliot can immediately contribute by playing impressive pressure defense.

Jumbo

08-02-2008, 11:51 PM

"OC" is becoming set in stone, it appears... 850 The Buzz has been reporting on the games and all of the "Buzz" is about Eliot and "OC"... I caught Bomani Jones on the ride home Friday evening and he said OC has become "THE" fan favorite no matter the school or team affiliation of the crowd. He said on one play Thursday, Olek was a wing man on a 3 on 2 break and the crowd rose to their feet, only to moan in agony when the pass went to the other guy and he scored.. Bomani said they about booed the passer out of the gym.. The report was that OC has one thing on his mind when attacking the basket and that is to dunk on anyone in the way, and he does that really well.. but that he has work to do on footwork and rebounding... Looking forward to watching this kid develop..

As for Eliot, the report was that he is the real deal and immediate impact player. Very smooth with the ball, very good shooter, is great at finishing when he penetrates, and finally, the best compliment of all given to Eliot, is that he is a lock-down defender.. I am hoping all of that turns out to be on the money.. I am hoping to get out there this week and see for myself!

I don't want to rain on any parades, but the reports I'm getting (which go beyond these pickup games) is that all the freshmen have a lot to learn. I'm begging you all to lower your expectations now, so that you're not asking why "Frosh X, Y or Z" isn't playing major minutes come November.

roywhite

08-03-2008, 12:19 AM

CameronCrazy'11

08-03-2008, 01:05 AM

I'm guessing that even Elliot will probably only end up seeing around 20 minutes a game next season with the other freshmen less than that. Remember that the aggregate minutes of all our guards will go down next year since we'll be (I dearly hope) doing more 3 guards, Singler, other post line-ups and less 4 guards and Singler line-ups.

Bob Green

08-03-2008, 02:04 AM

I'm begging you all to lower your expectations now...

Solid advice as maintaining perspective is always tough over the summer. I expect Elliot Williams to see the kind of minutes that Nolan Smith saw last season (14 mpg) or maybe a couple of more. When he is on the court, I'm hoping he is able to bring it on the defensive end.

Ignatius07

08-03-2008, 11:49 AM

Jumbo

08-03-2008, 01:31 PM

Noted.

Heaven forbid we have any fun looking forward to some exciting new players.

That's exactly what I said. Excellent reading comprehension.

Jumbo

08-03-2008, 01:36 PM

Solid advice as maintaining perspective is always tough over the summer. I expect Elliot Williams to see the kind of minutes that Nolan Smith saw last season (14 mpg) or maybe a couple of more. When he is on the court, I'm hoping he is able to bring it on the defensive end.

I've been ask to expound a bit, so I'll try. All these guys have flaws and steep learning curves. Just think how physically talented Nolan Smith is, how good he looked at this time last year, but how much he struggled -- all year -- to pick up Duke's system. Williams is sort of in the same position. He won't have to run the point, but from what I hear, he needs to get better at understanding the schemes and ball movement, rather than lapsing into one-on-one.

I know dkbaseball thinks differently after watching Olek Czyz in high school, but everyone else I know who has seen Czyz up close this summer (beyond those open games) believe he has a LONG way to go in understanding the nuances of the game.

The most positive reports I've heard have been on Plumlee, who could potentially throw himself into the mix with Zoubek and Thomas at the 5. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be excited about the potential these three kids have, but anyone expecting major immediate contributions is ahead of himself/herself. Playing the game at the college level is such a huge step up from high school, AAU, pickup and summer league, and it's the small things that make the biggest difference. The incoming freshmen still have a lot to learn.

roywhite

08-03-2008, 02:33 PM

That's exactly what I said. Excellent reading comprehension.

Unnecessary and unappreciated.

Edouble

08-03-2008, 03:10 PM

I've been ask to expound a bit, so I'll try. All these guys have flaws and steep learning curves. Just think how physically talented Nolan Smith is, how good he looked at this time last year, but how much he struggled -- all year -- to pick up Duke's system. Williams is sort of in the same position. He won't have to run the point, but from what I hear, he needs to get better at understanding the schemes and ball movement, rather than lapsing into one-on-one.

I know dkbaseball thinks differently after watching Olek Czyz in high school, but everyone else I know who has seen Czyz up close this summer (beyond those open games) believe he has a LONG way to go in understanding the nuances of the game.

The most positive reports I've heard have been on Plumlee, who could potentially throw himself into the mix with Zoubek and Thomas at the 5. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be excited about the potential these three kids have, but anyone expecting major immediate contributions is ahead of himself/herself. Playing the game at the college level is such a huge step up from high school, AAU, pickup and summer league, and it's the small things that make the biggest difference. The incoming freshmen still have a lot to learn.

No need to expound, sir. The ACC is a tough league, as is making the transition from the blue team to the white team. As everyone knows, minutes are earned in practice, and Jon Scheyer, and Nolan Smith in particular, I think, are going to give very intense efforts to locking down Elliot Williams in October and November in Cameron.

If he is indeed a lock-down defender, it may be hard to keep him off the court, particularly at the end of the first half and at the end of games. Imagine a three-guard line-up including Smith, Williams, and Hendo holding a lead as the clock ticks down! Quite an imposing group if Email is as good as advertised and Henderson picks it up a notch on D as many are expecting (key word, "expecting").

I am glad to hear about Williams' defensive prowess. I wonder if anyone could enlighten me on his overall strength. He has looked very skinny at times and I'd like to know if his skinniness is in the vein of Durant/Hodge (skinny, but still strong enough not to be pushed around) or more of a freshman Dunleavy/Casey Sanders, where skinniness can sometimes be indicative of a strength issue.

Newton_14

08-03-2008, 03:31 PM

Bob Green

08-03-2008, 03:38 PM

...when I get out there this week to see the action, I'll just keep whatever I see to myself to avoid sharing anything that may give false hope to the readers of this forum...

Please share what you see as I definitely will not have the opportunity to see the action myself. The commute is a little rough.

ForeverBlowingBubbles

08-03-2008, 03:53 PM

threads taken a major buzz kill.

Edouble

08-03-2008, 04:09 PM

Please share what you see as I definitely will not have the opportunity to see the action myself. The commute is a little rough.

Yes, please keep sharing the game notes!

Go Duke!

micah75

08-03-2008, 04:13 PM

But lesson learned...when I get out there this week to see the action, I'll just keep whatever I see to myself to avoid sharing anything that may give false hope to the readers of this forum...

I can't say that I blame you for feeling this way. Personally, I think hope is a good thing, false or otherwise. Without hope, what is the point in living.

Speaking only for this reader, my loss.

Edouble

08-03-2008, 04:28 PM

I'm begging you all to lower your expectations now, so that you're not asking why "Frosh X, Y or Z" isn't playing major minutes come November.

I know if OC is playing 6 minutes a game in December, some people will be saying "Why isn't he playing more? He dominated the summer league that had NBA players", so I respect Jumbo's thoughts that we try to keep these game reports in perspective. Things can get blown out of proportion later on. I also think Boozer was very clear that he hopes that the reports he's hearing are acurate and that Williams is ahead of the curve. He never said that Williams is going to a Grant Hill type freshman year.

I can see where having "hope" and "lowered expectations" do not have to be mutually exclusive.

dkbaseball

08-03-2008, 04:29 PM

I was simply passing along information from ONE report. Regarding Olek, the emphasis was on the fact that the nickname OC is sticking, that he is a exciting guy that will be a fan favorite, and he has lots of work to do to become a rounded player. My last comment on him was "look forward to watching this kid develop" I was not in any way suggesting we should expect great things from him immediately.

As for Eliot, some freshman contribute right away, and some don't. This one particular report suggests Eliot will fall into "contribute right away" and has lots of upside. I find that exciting and as I stated in the original post, I HOPE the report turns out to be on the money.

But lesson learned...when I get out there this week to see the action, I'll just keep whatever I see to myself to avoid sharing anything that may give false hope to the readers of this forum...

C'mon Boozer, weigh in with your impressions. I think I can take the eventual dashing of my hopes for freshmen playing time, and I'd bet plenty of others here can too. Jumbo's repeatedly iterated concern for our delicate sensibilities is touching, but I think we may be made of sterner stuff than that. Of course, raised hopes for the freshmen do run afoul of Jumbo's last-word insider account of what's happening in Duke basketball, but I'm sure his concern is for our fragile hopes and isn't some some petty little turf thing where he scratches and claws like a middle-management bureaucrat to guard his status as Chief Sage of DBR.

-jk

08-03-2008, 04:34 PM

Dudes, relax. There is a difference between "optimistic" and "unreasonble expectations".

I'm certainly the former, albeit cautiously. But I hate to see players try to live up to the latter, and subsequently turn into head cases and never realize their true potential.

Let's all just take it easy and enjoy a reasonable summertime conversation.

-jk

Bob Green

08-03-2008, 04:34 PM

I've been ask to expound a bit, so I'll try...The most positive reports I've heard have been on Plumlee, who could potentially throw himself into the mix with Zoubek and Thomas at the 5...

Thanks for expounding. It is good to hear you are hearing positive reports on Plumlee as we can benefit from another big body in the rotation.

dkbaseball

08-03-2008, 04:36 PM

As for Olek, I guess the "nuances of the game" he needs to learn are apparent only to insiders of exalted status. I said in my first report on him, and it's been obvious to anyone else who's seen him, that he needs to work on positioning himself for rebounds and on moving his feet in on-ball low post defense. But it also should be clear to anyone who's watching him with an open mind that he is an extremely strong, durable, coordinated and agile athlete with incredible mobility for his size -- north and south, east and west, and up and down. If he responds to the Duke staff's coaching, he will be a star, especially in the Duke system, which requires of its bigs so much mobility on defense. And it will happen sooner than later, IMO.

Bob Green

08-03-2008, 04:48 PM

If he responds to the Duke staff's coaching, he will be a star, especially in the Duke system, which requires of its bigs so much mobility on defense.

We all are pulling for Czyz to be a star. He, as well as Plumlee & Williams, will need to be given time to adjust to the college game. Your point about Czyz responding to coaching applies equally to all three freshmen. It is an exciting time with football season about to start and basketball practice just around the corner, as evidenced by emotions starting to flow on the message board.

3rd Dukie

08-03-2008, 05:39 PM

I was simply passing along information from ONE report. Regarding Olek, the emphasis was on the fact that the nickname OC is sticking, that he is a exciting guy that will be a fan favorite, and he has lots of work to do to become a rounded player. My last comment on him was "look forward to watching this kid develop" I was not in any way suggesting we should expect great things from him immediately.

As for Eliot, some freshman contribute right away, and some don't. This one particular report suggests Eliot will fall into "contribute right away" and has lots of upside. I find that exciting and as I stated in the original post, I HOPE the report turns out to be on the money.

But lesson learned...when I get out there this week to see the action, I'll just keep whatever I see to myself to avoid sharing anything that may give false hope to the readers of this forum...

I would appreciate your input as well, Boozer. Hell, at my age, buying green bananas could be construed as false hope. I'll do my best to manage my expectations and emotions, although I am sure their are others on here who might deem me unfit for such an undertaking.

Thanks much.

BD80

08-03-2008, 07:17 PM

Unnecessary and unappreciated.

As for Olek, I guess the "nuances of the game" he needs to learn are apparent only to insiders of exalted status. ... If he responds to the Duke staff's coaching, he will be a star, especially in the Duke system, which requires of its bigs so much mobility on defense. And it will happen sooner than later, IMO.

Snarkiness blooms too quickly on these boards. Frankly, I think Jumbo's point is well taken.

I know if OC is playing 6 minutes a game in December, some people will be saying "Why isn't he playing more? ...

It is worse than that, it will prompt responses detailing OC's "failings" or "inadequacies" to "explain" why he isn't getting more playing time. Nearly every player that gets pumped up on these boards during the summer winds up getting crucified on these boards during the season. This post isn't meant to criticize the optimistic, but a plea for restraint to avoid problems in the future. Saying that OC "will be a star" is the kind of statement that starts the destructive cycle. Shav and McBob come to mind as examples.

As for me, I hope OC is as good as is being reported, but that he only gets mop-up time this year because Z becomes a dominant post presence and LT a strong back-up with great defensive pressure and rebounding. Maybe we will be able to use OC and LT to give Kyle a bit of rest while staying "big." Of course, this year will be the first of several NCAA championships for OC :D

dkbaseball

08-03-2008, 07:26 PM

Snarkiness blooms too quickly on these boards. Frankly, I think Jumbo's point is well taken.

Did you read the post roywhite was responding to? There is no one whose views on Duke basketball I value more than those of roywhite, with whom I have been watching and talking about the Devils since well before Jumbo was born. We've been through quite a few cycles of optimism and disappointment, and believe we are well qualified to try to size up incoming freshmen without instruction from somebody else on what to think.

DevilDan

08-03-2008, 07:31 PM

The posts prove one thing: that everybody is getting ANTSY here in August, for NOVEMBER. From 3K away, so am I. If OLEK can get a few minutes per game, I think he'll dazzle, and become (as Bob Harris might say) a new destiny darling .

Obviously I'm using him as an example for all three of our rookies. If these three guys get on the floor and add to what we have, that'll be great. But if not, they can still battle with our experienced players in practice everyday, and make our returnees better.

I watched the replay of the WVa game two days ago, and saw some pretty decent Brian Zoubek stuff -- maybe he'll come back and show us more; also I read some encouraging snips on Lance Thomas from the summer league -- maybe he used that to build his confidence.

Henderson, Scheyer, Singler, and Paulus give us a very solid nucleus (some have said the best set of 4 returning in the NCAA this year). With Smith coming back from a good Freshman season, and McClure and Pocius ready to hit the floor .... What's NOT to GET EXCITED ABOUT HERE ?? Bring it .... GO DUKE

2001dukechamps

08-03-2008, 09:01 PM

Did you read the post roywhite was responding to? There is no one whose views on Duke basketball I value more than those of roywhite, with whom I have been watching and talking about the Devils since well before Jumbo was born. We've been through quite a few cycles of optimism and disappointment, and believe we are well qualified to try to size up incoming freshmen without instruction from somebody else on what to think.

I agree 100%, I don't care how big of a fan you are or if you're a moderator it still doesn't give you the right to tell another fan (who loves Duke just as much) how/what to feel about player, especialy if they seen the player with their own eyes. Fwiw I also enjoy reading roywhite's posts on the scout and rivals board.

CameronCrazy'11

08-03-2008, 09:10 PM

roywhite

08-03-2008, 09:35 PM

People might need to calm down a bit here. All Jumbo said was that it would be prudent for some to temper their optimism a little about the new recruits, that they were still improving.

What Jumbo said was:
"I don't want to rain on any parades, but the reports I'm getting (which go beyond these pickup games) is that all the freshmen have a lot to learn. I'm begging you all to lower your expectations now, so that you're not asking why "Frosh X, Y or Z" isn't playing major minutes come November."

and, to my reponse of "Noted. Heaven forbid we have any fun looking forward to some exciting new players."

Jumbo said:

"That's exactly what I said. Excellent reading comprehension."

I've been a Duke fan for over 40 years. I've been through good times and bad times with Duke basketball. I really don't need Jumbo to tell me what to think or whether to be enthusiastic. He was out of line.

Look at some of the other reponses on this thread. Many posters are frankly tired of him telling people what to think. His opinion is fine, but so is mine.

Newton_14

08-03-2008, 09:40 PM

People might need to calm down a bit here. All Jumbo said was that it would be prudent for some to temper their optimism a little about the new recruits, that they were still improving. It's not like he said that the three freshmen all sucked and anyone who thought otherwise was an idiot. People should continue to be excited about the freshmen but realize that they are great additions to an already great team.

Fair enough. And all I said in my post (which is what started this) was that in the report I heard on Friday, "OC" is sticking as the official nickname for Olek, he is a great dunker who has become the fan favorite in the summer league, and has lots of work to do to become a well rounded player, and it will be fun watching him "develop".. In no way did I say he would start, dominate, play lots of minutes, or anything of the nature...I certainly did not imply he would be a "star"

For Eliot, I shared that, according to the report, he would be an immediate impact player, has good offensive skills, and is a very good defender, and I HOPED the report would turn out to be on the money... I never said he would be a star or starter....

at the very beginning of this thread, folks asked us locals to share information on the Duke kids playing in the summer league... that was the only intent of my post.. I was sharing what I heard from a radio talk show host that has attended several games and I made the assumption the reader would take all of that into account when deciding the value/legitimacy of the information in said report...

mgtr

08-03-2008, 09:40 PM

Lets not get too carried away here, folks. Remember it is early August. Also remember that this time last year people were saying that Taylor King (or King Taylor, as some said) would be a superstar and rip the nets to shreds.
Without getting into why that didn't happen, it is just too easy to build up expectations way too high, although we certainly have one example (Kyle Singler) where that didn't happen.
It would be very interesting to revisit this thread next August and see where we stand.
For me, I remain very optimistic about the upcoming season. We have a core of four very, very good players, some reasonable players for the fifth spot, and a solid bench. Not too shabby.
I believe we are in much better shape going into this season than we were last season.

Indoor66

08-03-2008, 09:46 PM

I have been reading these boards since about the beginning in the 90's. Every year, it seems, some posters are touting the new flavor of the month, based mostly on what they have read and not what they have seen. IMHO, most of the time they have been wrong about the productivity of incoming new players.

The transition from HS to Duke is huge. The competition on the team from players who are as or more skilled and have at least one year in the system; the incredible speed of the game at the college level; and the demands of a much higher concentration of practices, games and the burden of college course work and living situations impact the ability to perform,

If you look back at Duke Basketball during the K era, how many freshmen have made a significant contribution, much less started, as freshmen? Most of them have their number hanging in the rafters (Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, Shane Battier, Jason Williams, Shelden Williams and J. J. Redick) and some left early (Luol Deng, Elton Brand, John Scheyer, Greg Paulus, Kyle Singler). There are others I have not thought of and have not listed but in the 27 or so of K coaching, that is a very short list.

To place and expectation of performance at this level on any incoming student/athlete is at the least unreasonable and at the most ridiculous. Jumping, dunking and being quick is important but is not the be all and end all of a great basketball player. (See Shane Battier, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Bill Bradley, Yao Ming and many others. Heck, even Kareem was not a particularly great leaper.)

I agree with others that we need to temper our rhetoric and be realistic in our predictions about the performance of our newcomers. Please, say what you want as often as you want to, but please think about what you are saying and be realistic in your outlook.

Jumbo

08-03-2008, 09:54 PM

BD80

08-03-2008, 10:01 PM

I don't want to rain on any parades, but the reports I'm getting (which go beyond these pickup games) is that all the freshmen have a lot to learn. I'm begging you all to lower your expectations now, so that you're not asking why "Frosh X, Y or Z" isn't playing major minutes come November.

Noted.

Heaven forbid we have any fun looking forward to some exciting new players.

That's exactly what I said. Excellent reading comprehension. (I read this to be dripping with sarcasm)

Unnecessary and unappreciated.

Snarkiness blooms too quickly on these boards. Frankly, I think Jumbo's point is well taken. ... Saying that OC "will be a star" is the kind of statement that starts the destructive cycle.

Did you read the post roywhite was responding to? There is no one whose views on Duke basketball I value more than those of roywhite, with whom I have been watching and talking about the Devils since well before Jumbo was born. We've been through quite a few cycles of optimism and disappointment, and believe we are well qualified to try to size up incoming freshmen without instruction from somebody else on what to think.

My apologies to roywhite if I implied he was over hyping players. I did imply his response to Jumbo was snarky - I did not read Jumbo's post to prohibit "fun looking forward to some exciting new players." I have no basis to comment on your qualifications to evaluate a freshman after a couple of pro-am games and call him a future "star," and apologize if it seemed I was challenging your qualifications or those of roywhite. My concern is when discussion of player "evaluations" turn negative, and I believe that the argumentative nature of some on this board turn the overly optimistic evaluations into fodder for negative evaluations.

Jumbo

08-03-2008, 10:16 PM

C'mon Boozer, weigh in with your impressions. I think I can take the eventual dashing of my hopes for freshmen playing time, and I'd bet plenty of others here can too. Jumbo's repeatedly iterated concern for our delicate sensibilities is touching, but I think we may be made of sterner stuff than that. Of course, raised hopes for the freshmen do run afoul of Jumbo's last-word insider account of what's happening in Duke basketball, but I'm sure his concern is for our fragile hopes and isn't some some petty little turf thing where he scratches and claws like a middle-management bureaucrat to guard his status as Chief Sage of DBR.

As for Olek, I guess the "nuances of the game" he needs to learn are apparent only to insiders of exalted status. I said in my first report on him, and it's been obvious to anyone else who's seen him, that he needs to work on positioning himself for rebounds and on moving his feet in on-ball low post defense. But it also should be clear to anyone who's watching him with an open mind that he is an extremely strong, durable, coordinated and agile athlete with incredible mobility for his size -- north and south, east and west, and up and down. If he responds to the Duke staff's coaching, he will be a star, especially in the Duke system, which requires of its bigs so much mobility on defense. And it will happen sooner than later, IMO.

Did you read the post roywhite was responding to? There is no one whose views on Duke basketball I value more than those of roywhite, with whom I have been watching and talking about the Devils since well before Jumbo was born. We've been through quite a few cycles of optimism and disappointment, and believe we are well qualified to try to size up incoming freshmen without instruction from somebody else on what to think.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back up the truck, hoss! Here's what I said:

1) Expectations tend to get a bit wild during the summer, and lead to disappointment during the season when performance doesn't match hype.

2) I've heard some other reports on the three frosh that are a bit different from some of the other stuff written here.

That's it. What I don't recall discussing were the date of my birth, "petty turf" battles, "delicate sensibilities" or many of the other insults you hurled my way (without any basis). So just cut it out, okay? If you don't think people don't go crazy around here when a hyped freshman isn't tearing down rims and draining threes in December, you haven't been paying attention. There's absolutely nothing wrong with reminding people that college hoops is a really tough transition. And you've clearly taken a personal interest in Olek Czyz's development and as a Duke fan, I hope everything you've written about him is true, and more. All I'm saying is the reports I've received show more concern -- he's a freak athlete, but struggles with where to be on the court, hands and some other fundamental skills. It's not a big deal. Sheesh.

Newton_14

08-03-2008, 10:22 PM

Boozer,
I wasn't targetting you specifically -- far from it. Sorry if I came across that way.

I felt it was directed at me, but apology accepted. Time to turn this thread back to reports on the the Duke kid's performances at the summer league, inclusive of the the current Devils as well as the incoming freshman...

So...... One thing I failed to share was, that in that same report BJ stated that Lance has been in high gear in all the games, hustling like a maniac, and playing as hard as a guy can play... To me, if he has that kind of energy in a summer league pro-am, he will be ready to bring a high level of intensity and energy once the real season starts...

dkbaseball

08-03-2008, 10:44 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back up the truck, hoss! Here's what I said:

1) Expectations tend to get a bit wild during the summer, and lead to disappointment during the season when performance doesn't match hype.

2) I've heard some other reports on the three frosh that are a bit different from some of the other stuff written here.

That's it. What I don't recall discussing were the date of my birth, "petty turf" battles, "delicate sensibilities" or many of the other insults you hurled my way (without any basis). So just cut it out, okay? If you don't think people don't go crazy around here when a hyped freshman isn't tearing down rims and draining threes in December, you haven't been paying attention. There's absolutely nothing wrong with reminding people that college hoops is a really tough transition. And you've clearly taken a personal interest in Olek Czyz's development and as a Duke fan, I hope everything you've written about him is true, and more. All I'm saying is the reports I've received show more concern -- he's a freak athlete, but struggles with where to be on the court, hands and some other fundamental skills. It's not a big deal. Sheesh.

Fair enough, it's certainly not a big deal. A few of us have made the minor point that officious schoolmarm maybe isn't the best tone to take on this board, and that should be the end of it. And at this point, I have to admit I'm somewhat vested in being right about Olek. I just think all his shortcomings, which were obvious enough in high school, are things he can be coached up in, and quickly. I didn't see a hands problem in high school. As for your age, I believe a post of throaty revealed you to be in your early 30s.

CameronCrazy'11

08-03-2008, 11:18 PM

The thing that makes me optimistic about Olek in the long run is that his stated weakness - knowing where to be, all that basketball i.q. type stuff - is very teachable. Combine that with the drive and athleticism he already has and he'll be a force.

Edouble

08-04-2008, 02:58 AM

dukeENG2003

08-04-2008, 08:52 AM

watzone

08-04-2008, 11:01 AM

All I can say is that my reports haven't blown anyone up to be a potential superstar, especially right away. In fact, I feel my reviews have been grounded. I have a hard time buying into people who come in and say "from what I have heard," with the emphasis that they are somehow close to people near the program when they never allude mor specifically to sources and proclaim them more than share what they say on a regular basis. It carries much less weight when they miss on obvious happenings (for some) as well. Heck, I bet all have sources close to the program from simply reading DBR;) Seriously, it comes off like chest thumping to some.

The whole idea of my offerings were to spark conversation and opinion. Afterall, that is what so many have said to be this board is about. I would think by now, that posters here could ground their expectations a bit. I mean, it's almost a tradition for some suggest to do so year in and year out.

Still, these are posters, some of which have seen the games themselves. They come here and offer to be the eyes of others and from what I have seen, their various takes offer a consensus if you will. Surely, all know that you have to take any report with a grain of salt. I mean, I doubt a posters take on this message board can sway as many people as some feel it will.

And some of the responses on this thread ... why? All too often it creates unecessary discourse. I was talking to a long time sports writer in a pub the other evening. He said, "Mark, we sit around and here and here all these people talk about sports and we know they are off base and full of it." He continued, "But they have a right to their opinion as fans and are talking about what they have read maybe even from us." He then chose to explain the details of a situation to those sitting next to him in a careful manner. He persuaded one, but not the other to his way of thinking.

watzone

08-04-2008, 12:30 PM

Please forgive my numerous typos in the previous post. Tuesday is the last of the regular season games for the NC Pro Am. The games begin at 6:00, the last tipping just after 9:00. I understand more players will participate in that you have to have one game under your belt to take part in the playoffs. The playoffs will be held this coming weekend with the final on Monday. You can see the schedule at the official site.

An aside, while OC has been an absolute crowd favorite, he does have some holes in his game which must be addressed on the defensive end and with concerns to rebounding. He will not be the answer (imo) to the Blue Devils frontcourt needs in his first season. He will however excite the Crazies when he gets minutes. We had another talented freshman last year named Taylor King who excited with his threes, especially early in the season against lesser comp. I imagine that OC would get similar minutes at best in his first year. King was a bit of a one d player and teams adjust to your strength which in turn requires a player to expand his overall game. IOW, dunking or three pointers are but two of the facets of hoops, which is in tune with what Jumbo said.

roywhite

08-04-2008, 12:33 PM

Please forgive my numerous typos in the previous post. Tuesday is the last of the regular season games for the NC Pro Am. The games begin at 6:00, the last tipping just after 9:00. I understand more players will participate in that you have to have one game under you belt to take part in the play offs. The playoffs will be held this coming weekend with the final on Monday. You can see the schedule at the official site.

An aside, while OC has been an absolute crowd favorite, he does have some holes in his game which must be addressed on the defensive end and with concerns to rebounding. He will not be the answer (imo) to the Blue Devils front court needs in his first season. He will however excite the Crazies when he gets minutes. We had another talented freshman last year named Taylor King who excited with his threes, especially early in the season against lesser comp. I imagine that OC would get similar minutes at best in his first year. King was a bit of a one d player and teams adjust to your strength which in turn requires a player to expand his overall game. IOW, dunking or three pointers are but to of the facets of hoops, which is in tune with what Jumbo said.

Watzone, appreciate your NCCU updates and other info. What is your take on EWill's chance to make an impact this year?

watzone

08-04-2008, 12:38 PM

Watzone, appreciate your NCCU updates and other info. What is your take on EWill's chance to make an impact this year?

I feel certain he will make an impact. Good defensvie skills, nice handle and nice drives. Needs a more consitent outside shot. The real surpsrise is his ability to dish the rock.

watzone

08-04-2008, 01:01 PM

I feel certain he will make an impact. Good defensvie skills, nice handle and nice drives. Needs a more consitent outside shot. The real surpsrise is his ability to dish the rock.

More typos! My fingers are too fat for the mini laptop I am on today;)

Carlos

08-04-2008, 01:17 PM

Have you been to any of the games Jumbo?

Not trying to be mean by asking that but from what I've seen at the games I've been to, its hard NOT to get excited about him. He's probably signed more autographs than anyone else there. Everyone loves him.

He quite frankly is the STAR of the tournament. Granted, its not the ACC, far from it, but given the focus of this thread, I think the optimism associated with him is appropriate.

I've been to a bunch of the games and I'll tell you right now that calling Czyz the STAR of the the pro-am league is a huge stretch. He's a star because he had a highlight reel game and now every time someone sees him in line for a dunk the anticipation is palpable.

But being an exciting player doesn't necessarily mean he's a player to get excited about. I'd go back and read dkbaseball's posts and carefully study what he has to say about shortcomings in OC's game. Duke has a ton of offensive talent next year but what they really need is guy who can defend the post and rebound. From what I've seen of OC's game right now, those happen to be his two biggest weaknesses.

dk has said it and I've seen it - right now Czyz is not a guy who instinctively knows where to go for rebounds. Watch the difference between Singler and OC in the games tomorrow night and see how many rebounds Singler gets from positioning compared to Czyz. Defensively watch and see if he can lock down on his man. How many times does he deny position and how many times does he try to tip the ball away from behind - a move that seems to be acceptable in the summer league but is an automatic foul in the ACC. Watch and see how many times he blocks a shot, something you would think would happen pretty often for a guy with his size and leaping ability.

And while you're watching, count how many times he catches the ball cleanly in the post as opposed to fumbling it and having to gather himself.

Czyz is a really promising athlete. He can jump, he handles the ball quite well, and he can shoot if he has enough time to spot up. But he's also a really strong candidate for the "why isn't he playing more" questions because the things Duke needs him to do aren't the things he's developed yet.

Carlos

08-04-2008, 01:24 PM

I feel certain he will make an impact. Good defensvie skills, nice handle and nice drives. Needs a more consitent outside shot. The real surpsrise is his ability to dish the rock.

In case anyone sees me as overly negative based on my Czyz thoughts, let me just say that I'm more than just a little excited about Elliott Williams. The kid has a wealth of talent as Watzone alluded above and in addition can really get out and defend. Watching him embarrass Danny Green a couple of weeks ago was priceless.

dukeENG2003

08-04-2008, 01:34 PM

Carlos, your points are all valid (although I would argue some of the balls he has bobbled have been due to how terrible the passes were), I was calling him the star b/c he has the most buzz around him, not b/c he's the best player or has even put up the most dominating performance (THAT title would have to go to JJ Hickson, boy am I glad he's gone). I've actually thought his D has been pretty solid. He has been forced to defend Josh Powell and Ilian Evitmov and did a pretty decent job.

This tournament isn't about "good basketball" (believe me, I wish it was, but it isn't), its about highlight reel plays, and Czyz is one of the tournaments most exciting players which IMO makes him one of the tournaments stars.

I'll agree I'm not expecting an all rookie team performance out of him, but the potential is truly exciting. He has skills that can't be taught.

watzone

08-04-2008, 03:52 PM

I've been to a bunch of the games and I'll tell you right now that calling Czyz the STAR of the the pro-am league is a huge stretch. He's a star because he had a highlight reel game and now every time someone sees him in line for a dunk the anticipation is palpable.

There are more than a few who have the perception that ups and dunks make you a star. OC is listed as an all tournament team hopeful, while KS is dissed on the NC Pro Am site. Clark Francis ranked him from nowhere to number 17 after one AAU event. Oddly, he is swarmed for auto's, yet KS isn't so much.

But being an exciting player doesn't necessarily mean he's a player to get excited about. I'd go back and read dkbaseball's posts and carefully study what he has to say about shortcomings in OC's game. Duke has a ton of offensive talent next year but what they really need is guy who can defend the post and rebound. From what I've seen of OC's game right now, those happen to be his two biggest weaknesses.

dk has said it and I've seen it - right now Czyz is not a guy who instinctively knows where to go for rebounds. Watch the difference between Singler and OC in the games tomorrow night and see how many rebounds Singler gets from positioning compared to Czyz. Defensively watch and see if he can lock down on his man. How many times does he deny position and how many times does he try to tip the ball away from behind - a move that seems to be acceptable in the summer league but is an automatic foul in the ACC. Watch and see how many times he blocks a shot, something you would think would happen pretty often for a guy with his size and leaping ability.

Yup.

And while you're watching, count how many times he catches the ball cleanly in the post as opposed to fumbling it and having to gather himself.

The cold hard truth is that he made three steals in one game and turned the ball over on every single one in a game. He lets up what he scores more often than not, but hustles his butt off.

Czyz is a really promising athlete. He can jump, he handles the ball quite well, and he can shoot if he has enough time to spot up. But he's also a really strong candidate for the "why isn't he playing more" questions because the things Duke needs him to do aren't the things he's developed yet.

Just like TK and others. Fundamentals gets you in the game at Duke.

CameronCrazy'11

08-04-2008, 04:29 PM

The bright side is that OC seems to know that he has weaknesses and is comitted to working on them. He's not gonna throw a fit or transfer out of the program if he doesn't get 15 minutes a game in his first year. By his junior and senior year, this guy has the potential to be scary good.

6th Man

08-04-2008, 04:38 PM

watzone

08-04-2008, 07:00 PM

I ran across O.C. on campus this weekend and I will say this about him.....he is one of the nicest kids I have had the opportunity to meet from the Duke program. If he turns out to be as good of a player as he is a person he will be a superstar. Very humble young man.

Indeed. I have talked to him briefly and watched his approach to fans and he is a good kid that will represent Duke well.

Newton_14

08-04-2008, 08:53 PM

I just want one thing from OC this year, a mind-blowing, posterizing dunk over one Danny (I was not good enough for the NBA) Green. Just one. In Cameron or the bignosedome, either is fine by me, just get it done..

and I don't want Green trying to take the charge, I want him rising in a futile attempt to block it, and have OC throw it down with Danny (I was not good enough for the NBA) Green eyelevel with OC's........well u know what I am saying...

Newton_14

08-04-2008, 08:56 PM

I feel certain he will make an impact. Good defensvie skills, nice handle and nice drives. Needs a more consitent outside shot. The real surpsrise is his ability to dish the rock.

Watzone, thanks for this update. Good to hear it yet again, and this time from what I deem a reliable source... I have yet to hear one bad report on Eliot...

DevilDan

08-04-2008, 09:20 PM

mgtr

08-04-2008, 09:26 PM

^ Right on target.

CameronCrazy'11

08-04-2008, 10:33 PM

Our returning 4 are a top notch group -- the chemistry is there. Let's see if we can get some good minutes out of Lance and Brian upfront, and an explosive moment here and there from Olek (ok, ok ... "OC"). Elliot sounds like the real deal, and Plumlee looks like he could contribute a little this year.

Nolan, David & Marty aren't exactly going to hurt us. Provided Kyle does not have to log in minutes guarding the post, we have a guy who can emerge as one of the best players in the college game.

I know Coach K is halfway around the world, but I think on the plane home he may start smiling about the group he's going to be working with in Durham later this fall. GO DUKE !

This is from the Chronicle from a while ago: The three [new freshman] will compete for time on a team that Krzyzewski said “should be the most talented as we’ve had in the last four years.” Sounds like he is very excited! Now maybe my reading comprehension's a bit off but it sounds like he's saying this team should be even better than Duke's '06 team. If he had said most talented in two years, that would mean better than last years, so most talented in four years should mean better than the last three? Knowing that Krzyzewski considers this team as good or better than the team with NPOY and the NDPOY just makes me all happy inside.

3rd Dukie

08-05-2008, 12:19 AM

SupaDave

08-05-2008, 10:41 AM

Well fellas I'm home in Durham for the week and almost forget about the Pro-Am b/c I have a photoshoot today at Duke Gardens. I'll BE there! I'm also taking a tour of the Law School today.

Shout out Supa Dave a couple of times tonight and someone will most surely point you to me. I'm real good friends with D. Bryant as well as something like a Durham hero.

I'll give my analysis tomorrow sometime but as a currently active basketball player I will be honest with no sugar coating whatsoever.

My friends who have gone have told me that "watzone" is basically correct in his analysis.

Nolan has been super but on the wrong team.
My boys say that Elliott has that "Jason Williams" thing going on.
Plumlee is still a mystery for the most part.
Kyle is bigger and that's all we care to hear really.
Lance has been POSSESED and if he brings any of that to the court - LOOK OUT.

And the odds of "OC" dunking on Danny Green this year are about one in a million. From the sounds of it, he wont be ready for that level of a game.

Edouble

08-05-2008, 10:48 AM

I'll give my analysis tomorrow sometime but as a currently active basketball player...

You mean currently active, like at the Y?

SupaDave

08-05-2008, 11:50 AM

You mean currently active, like at the Y?

LOL! Yep, there too if I had one in close proximity. Pick a place. Anytime. I give out butt whuppings for fun and I talk trash like my name was MJ.

Tennessee&DukeFan414

08-05-2008, 12:09 PM

Elliot Williams will not dissapoint. This kid is great in transition and can jam it with the best of them (except DeRozan). He should flourish and will probably start at point when Paulus leaves. Tennessee was very dissapointed not to get him.

skitelz

08-05-2008, 07:59 PM

im sorry to burst your bubble, but i sincerely doubt elliot will ever play point for duke...nolan is a much better point prospect at this point and we should have kenny, brandon, and tyler all vying for playing time at the point in the years to come. all of these players are better options at the point Right Now even as high schoolers than elliot will ever be. while his one on one skills are phenomenal, elliot does not have the required ball handling or decision making skills to succeed as a point guard. he is a wing through and through

quickgtp

08-05-2008, 09:06 PM

Edouble

08-05-2008, 11:07 PM

skitelz i have to ask.....have you seen elliot in person? doesn't have the ball handling or decision making skills to be a successful pg? are you serious?

Yeah, but better handles and decision making than Nolan or Kenny (hopefully)? Elliot's a wing player. Does seeing him in person in high school or in a summer league game really qualify anyone to say that he could make the leap to playing PG, a position that he's never played before, in the ACC? I seriously doubt he is about to take the PG spot after Paulus leaves.

Carlos

08-06-2008, 12:08 AM

When Elliott plays in the NBA - and I'll say right now that I have no doubt that he will - it will be as a point guard. He'll need to develop his outside shooting more but that's something that Duke has always been able to develop in players.

I watched tonight's action with two guys who are pretty knowledgeable hoops fans and we were all in agreement that Williams is likely the second best point guard candidate on Duke's roster. That's not to take anything away from Nolan who can certainly handle the ball.

I'd also add that when Paulus is on the bench a backcourt of Nolan and Williams together would be exceptional. Put the two of those guys on the floor along with Scheyer or Henderson and you have a lineup that would cause nightmares for opposing coaches.

Duke is really close to making a huge leap over last year's team. The only missing part is for someone to step up and fill the role as the second big guy to complement Singler. The Devils need someone who can help Singler on the inside.

The good news is that there are a number of guys who are candidates for that position between Zoubek, Thomas, Czyz, and Plumlee. One of those guys needs to be able to rebound and defend. That's all Duke needs from that spot. Singler's versatility makes all four of those guys viable options.

BTW - Czyz looked pretty good tonight. I don't have his stats, but the in areas of concern for him - namely defense, positional rebounding, and his hands - he performed quite well.

Ignatius07

08-06-2008, 01:02 AM

I watched tonight's action with two guys who are pretty knowledgeable hoops fans and we were all in agreement that Williams is likely the second best point guard candidate on Duke's roster. That's not to take anything away from Nolan who can certainly handle the ball.

I have never seen Elliot play outside of the McD AA game, so I am asking out of curiosity: If Elliot is the second-best PG candidate at a place like Duke and ahead of a highly-regarded prospect/player like Nolan Smith, why did he reportedly never play PG in high school? I have consistently heard Elliot mentioned as a prototypical Duke wing, whereas Nolan came in having split point guard duties his senior year at Oak Hill.

I do not doubt that Elliot, like Nolan, could potentially develop into a capable point guard. The guy I saw in the McD AA game did not seem to have PG "instincts" at all. Maybe he has showcased these in the Pro Am games, but I will be skeptical until proven otherwise of the chances of Elliot being ahead of Nolan on the PG depth chart anytime this year.

CameronCrazy'11

08-06-2008, 01:22 AM

Even if he could play point I really doubt he'll do much of it at Duke. Greg and Nolan will split time next year. Maybe if Kenny doesn't come and we don't get another point guard next year he could get some time, but Scheyer can handle the point to and we might need Elliot on the wing. Then we'll get at least one point guard from 2010. No offense to anyone, but I'd never seen anything before that suggested Elliot would play the point. Is this based on anything other than his speed and penetration? Because Demarc and Gerald had that last year but neither of them played the point.

dukeENG2003

08-06-2008, 08:23 AM

Carlos

08-06-2008, 08:53 AM

I have never seen Elliot play outside of the McD AA game, so I am asking out of curiosity: If Elliot is the second-best PG candidate at a place like Duke and ahead of a highly-regarded prospect/player like Nolan Smith, why did he reportedly never play PG in high school? I have consistently heard Elliot mentioned as a prototypical Duke wing, whereas Nolan came in having split point guard duties his senior year at Oak Hill.

I do not doubt that Elliot, like Nolan, could potentially develop into a capable point guard. The guy I saw in the McD AA game did not seem to have PG "instincts" at all. Maybe he has showcased these in the Pro Am games, but I will be skeptical until proven otherwise of the chances of Elliot being ahead of Nolan on the PG depth chart anytime this year.

Where a guy plays in HS really doesn't mean a great deal in relationship to college. Nate James was a center in HS and ended up playing the wing at Duke. And the McD's game is not exactly the best setting to evaluate someone for anything.

Ignatius07

08-06-2008, 09:40 AM

Where a guy plays in HS really doesn't mean a great deal in relationship to college. Nate James was a center in HS and ended up playing the wing at Duke. And the McD's game is not exactly the best setting to evaluate someone for anything.

None of which really supports your point that Elliot is a good PG prospect. And are you seriously saying a guy's position in HS doesn't mean much compared to college? Perhaps you meant to phrase that a different way, but I would venture to say the vast majority of high school players who go on to college play a very similar position to that of HS. You cleverly give an example of big guy in HS transitioning to wing in college, but it is much less likely to happen at the PG situation since lack of height is not really an issue.

I am aware that McD AA games are not anything like real college games, but from what I understand they are similar to the Pro Am in that they are up-tempo with not as much defense being played. Here is the key - are guys actually Ding up hard on him in these games when he's handling the ball? When I saw that happen in the McD AA game, he seemed to get flustered.

I would be thrilled if he ends up being a better PG prospect than Nolan. I just have heard very little to suggest that until very recently. And like somebody else intimated, if we land Boynton this could end up being a moot point anyway, since he'll probably have the ball in his hands whenever our primary PG doesn't (if he doesn't become primary PG himself).

roywhite

08-06-2008, 10:04 AM

My own preference in constructing a great Duke team is for a "pure" point guard, someone who can consistently break pressure, direct the offense, create shot opportunities for teammates, and apply on-the-ball defensive pressure. Certainly Amaker, Hurley, and Duhon were prime examples; they became like a coach on the floor.

That said, there's really not an obvious candidate for that job, with Tyler Thornton and Brandon Knight being recruiting targets, but not eligible until the 2010-11 season. So somehow the job will fall to a Nolan Smith, an Eliot Williams, and (don't forget) Jon Scheyer. Kenny Boynton is probably in that general category also. The good news is that there is plenty of overall backcourt talent and that the staff can put together a rotation that works.

Thanks to all who have gone to the NCCU games and shared their observations; I believe, like Carlos said, we may be on the verge of a really outstanding team this coming season.

BlueintheFace

08-06-2008, 10:06 AM

The unanimous scouting report on Elliot from his high school career is that he is a big time slasher and finisher, but needs to work on his vision and is multipositional. I'm sure K knows this and definitely has not brought in Elliot to play the point. He has two point guards already and I doubt he will even let Elliot try for the position since that is not where he will benefit the team the most. In other words. If you have a multi-positional player, you don't put him at a position where he will be third on the depth chart (and that is a reality with K, not an opinion).

Furthermore, the "we don't have positions we have players" thing applies to every position/player on the court for K, EXCEPT the point. Being a point guard at Duke is a definitely a process. K brings in players who have played the point in high school specifically to be point guards. He is not swayed by summer pro-am games after years of scouting.

Still, I am glad to hear that we have a player who can cover for Greg and Nolan if they both get the flu, or more importantly, another player who can be trusted to take outlet passes and run the ball up the floor on the break.

ForeverBlowingBubbles

08-06-2008, 10:18 AM

When Carlos and Watzone praise a guy about vision and distributing ability, I tend to trust their instincts.

Scoring Point

08-06-2008, 10:19 AM

Furthermore, the "we don't have positions we have players" thing applies to every position/player on the court for K, EXCEPT the point. Being a point guard at Duke is a definitely a process. K brings in players who have played the point in high school specifically to be point guards. He is not swayed by summer pro-am games after years of scouting.

The other exception to the "we don't have positions we have players" maxim is the low post, at least defensively (center fielder/help defender in the paint). Our teams almost always have a PG/primary ballhandler and a low post (or someone anointed as a low post). Everything in between varies a lot based on personnel.

quickgtp

08-06-2008, 10:28 AM

Yeah, but better handles and decision making than Nolan or Kenny (hopefully)? Elliot's a wing player. Does seeing him in person in high school or in a summer league game really qualify anyone to say that he could make the leap to playing PG, a position that he's never played before, in the ACC? I seriously doubt he is about to take the PG spot after Paulus leaves.

My point isn't whether his pg skills are better than Nolan or Kenny Boynton (WHO WE HAVE YET TO SIGN.) My point is that he could/can be a successful pg in the ACC.

Edouble

08-06-2008, 10:41 AM

With some saying that OC is the star of the Pro-Am, and some saying that Elliot is an excellent PG prospect, both of which have suprised me and others (I think), this looks to be the most interesting summer thread to revisit following this season and possibly next season.

Tennessee&DukeFan414

08-06-2008, 10:53 AM

Elliot would have played point at Tennessee, and when he is in the NBA, he sure will not be playing wing at 6'4. He has time to develop decision-making, as I think his ball-handling and athleticism are above-average.

BlueintheFace

08-06-2008, 11:06 AM

When Carlos and Watzone praise a guy about vision and distributing ability, I tend to trust their instincts.

He said he was surprised at his vision, which could be anything from "wow, he actually passes the ball" to " this kid is the second coming of hurley." However, he couldn't have been very surprised if the kid had PREVIOUSLY shown vision. But hey, lets ask watzone...

Watzone, what are the chances that Elliot competes at the point position next year?

Also TENNESSEE&DUKE

His position in the NBA is absolutely irrelevant. The simple fact is, Duke is a team and K will play Elliot where the the TEAM needs him. His skill set may translate to the point position with work and time, but he is simply NOT NEEDED at the point this year, and certainly won't start over a Junior Nolan Smith.

Tennessee&DukeFan414

08-06-2008, 11:20 AM

What if Smith gets in foul trouble or injured? Elliot is more than capable of playing point at a high level.

Marty10

08-06-2008, 11:24 AM

Since when is 6'4 not tall enough to play wing in the NBA?? It's not like he's 6'4 and can't jump. He can get up there. I agree he does have some point guard skills, but that doesn't mean he has to play Point Guard. His skills are best suited for the wing. He can certainly defend the point guard position, but as far as him running the Duke offense as the PG I just don't see it happening.

Tennessee&DukeFan414

08-06-2008, 11:27 AM

Name 10 players in the NBA whe are 6'4 or shorter and play wing. The average is about 6'7.

Richard Berg

08-06-2008, 11:28 AM

Last night was my first trip to the Pro-Am. Interesting format. I watched most of the first game before ducking out for dinner, all of the 2nd & 3rd, and the first half of the 4th.

1st game: no Dukies. The Ilian and Vas Evtimov (who knew he had an even bigger brother?) dominated the much smaller and less experienced NCCU front line in every respect. The guards chucked up a lot of 3s, but nobody really stood out.

2nd game: OC and Nolan played together; Kyle didn't show. Nolan played very under control and seemed to be having a great time. Lots of layups, many of them garbage points - he probably went 10/12 or something like that. Along with Shammond Williams, his refined demeanor ensured an easy win despite some real stinkers on his team (e.g. whoever wore #7).

OC showed hustle but was frequently outrebounded by opponents with inferior hops. The most disappointing revelation was his handle: he lost the ball all the time, with or without traffic. Even on breakaways, he fumbled it more often than not, allowing a defender to catch up and forced a half-hearted dunk instead of the highlight reel everyone wanted. As time expired on the blowout, both he and Nolan outright missed dunks. Hopefully just a mental thing brought on by the first couple boneheaded plays + no coach. He did have one great play early on where he leaped WAY up, then alley-ooped it off the backboard to a teammate instead of dunking himself.

3rd game: Plumlee vs Elliot Williams. This one went to the wire, with E-Mail's team pulling out a 2 point victory. I was happy to see them win, because the latter played very well while Plumlee did a whole lot of nothing in the 1st half then rode the bench in the 2nd. Despite being by far the tallest player he got hardly any true rebounds. (quite a few tap-outs, though - not sure how they were scored) He attempted a couple outside shots (one 3pt) and missed badly. On the plus side, he made a nice 8' hook shot that will be very tough to defend when learns the footwork and positioning to match (this one was too far toward the wing where a real defense could trap him).

The star of Plumlee's team and probably the MVP of the game was Jawad Williams. He was almost unstoppable, sinking several fadeaway 3's (who knew he could shoot?), getting every rebound, running the break, and slashing at will. Like I said, I was glad to see his team lose anyway ;) E-Mail and Josh Powell turned in great, solid performances for the other side that eventually paid off despite an early deficit (Jawad had opened the game with 5/5 shooting, 3/3 from downtown). Elliot handled well, saw the floor, made a couple shots from every range, and dunked with authority. He is also a very good 1-on-1 defender. Of course, nobody knows how that will translate into an ability to absorb K's system. To pick on two recent recruits with similar physical gifts: Scheyer learned almost instantly; G arguably needed 1-1.5 seasons. Regardless, he'll be way ahead of frosh like King Taylor who lacked both the skills and the knowledge. I think Jumbo's comparison to the role Nolan played last year is apt.

4th game: G didn't do anything spectacular in the first 10 minutes, so I left. I already know what he can do.

Marty10

08-06-2008, 11:49 AM

I'm not sure what your definition of wing is, but for me it is a player that plays the 2 or 3.

Anyways here's a list of guys in the nba that fall in that category

Ben Gordon 6'3
Shannon Brown 6'4
Ronald Murray 6'3
Charlie Bell 6'3
Dwayne Wade 6'4
JJ Redick 6'4
Antonio Daniels 6'4
Greg Buckner 6'4
Luther Head 6'3
Rashad McCants 6'4
Cutino Mobley 6'4

anyways there's more but should be at least 10. Again i don't know if I have the same definition of wing as you guys do but thats what i thought it was. If not then sorry for this irrelevant post.

SupaDave

08-06-2008, 11:58 AM

Elliot HAS shown great vision and his ball handling has been EXCELLENT at the Pro-Am games. However, its hard to judge PG ability with the style of play. Nobody reallly moves off the ball, nobody really sets screens, so its not a real good way to guage passing vision. However, he CERTAINLY has the handles to run point.

Watched G for the first time last night, and he made me realize that although our freshman are exciting, they are WORLDS away from being anywhere near as talented as he is. He had 26 effortless points last night, passing up a lot of shots that he could have taken. His team lost (which was no fault of his), but he showed some SERIOUS range on his jumpshot at the end of the game, and although Czyz's dunks are impressive, they can't hold a candle to G's leaping ability.

I concur. I was late last night bc of a photoshoot but I got to see G's game. All I'm saying is get EXCITED. G's jumpshot was WET!!!!! If he shoots like this during the season - OH MY GOD.

I talked to G last night and it's one of the MANY things he's been working. All I can say is get ready for a break out season.

Also, something that hasn't been mentioned - G's arms are HUGE now!

SupaDave

08-06-2008, 12:05 PM

The star of Plumlee's team and probably the MVP of the game was Jawad Williams. He was almost unstoppable, sinking several fadeaway 3's (who knew he could shoot?), getting every rebound, running the break, and slashing at will.

You obviously don't remember many UNC-Duke games. Left open - he killed us.

3rd Dukie

08-06-2008, 12:08 PM

When Carlos and Watzone praise a guy about vision and distributing ability, I tend to trust their instincts.

Same here.

And I would also like to add my thanks for the reports from the action. The commute from CA is a little tough this time of year, and I have really enjoyed the insights. I am flying blind enough as it is, but the feedback has helped me get stoked for the season. It does seem as though there is considerable reason for optimism about the coming year.

Thanks!!

Tennessee&DukeFan414

08-06-2008, 12:09 PM

My definition of a Wing is a 3 who can rebound, pass, shoot. I denitely do not consider JJ or Ben Gordon or some of theose guys wings.

skitelz

08-06-2008, 12:36 PM

ok sorry i couldnt answer for my posts, but i have to sleep at night. thankfully edouble and cameroncrazy did an excellent job of answering for me. they basically said exactly what i would have.

gtp: no i have not seen elliot play in person, but i did watch the mcd's game and have read reports from both here and scout as to how he did at the pro-am. some reports claimed he dribbled high in the open court. like i said before, in the classic sense of the word (ie. one on one skills) email is phenomenal. he can take anyone. but hes not as great distributor as nolan on the break and does not fascilitate the offense as well as even nolan did last year in spot up duty. he looks more for his own dunk on the break than those open behind him. there is nothing wrong with that; he is just better on the receiving pass of an alley oop than the giving. as someone else said, one cant judge passing abilities based on pick up games like this. there are no set plays and no screening. he could very well be able to play the point, but until he's proved it well enough to make K play him there, i wouldnt be so hasty to decide he's our point of the future ahead of nolan and potentially kenny, brandon, and tyler.

bluein the face also made a great point about how we need elliot on the wing. yes he might (probably) would have played the point for tennessee because that was a point of need for them. they have scotty hopson on the wing who is considered a better prospect than elliot. it would make sense for him to play point for tennessee. not so much for duke. if smith is taken out of the game for whatever reason, im sure we can slide elliot to the point. but his primary position for the team is on the wing.

TDF414: i could see where you would be confused with some of our posts if you consider the small forward spot to be the "wing". i personally consider there to be two wing spots on the floor, a small wing and a large wing. elliot has the potential to play both wing spots in college and the small wing in the nba. i consider him to be like russell westbrook, career-wise. westbrook played the point when no one else was available but played the wing when collison was there. then he was drafted as a combo guard for the nba. btw, what do you call the shooting guard postition if the wing is small forward?

Marty10

08-06-2008, 01:08 PM

Ok maybe he's not a wing but he could surely play the 2, better than he would play the point.

Tennessee&DukeFan414

08-06-2008, 01:14 PM

I always considered the 2 to be a guard as well. I just think of it as the 1,2 are guards, 3 is the wing. Example: Dwyane Wade, O.J. Mayo, Randy Foye all play the 1 and 2 and they are called comboguards, not combowings.

Marty10

08-06-2008, 01:17 PM

I agree with that, but of all those you just mentioned only foye would be considered a true point guard IMO. Sure Williams could be considered a combo guard, but i think he will be most successful as a 2 guard offensively and on D he can defend the 1,2 or even the 3.

Oriole Way

08-06-2008, 02:04 PM

It's quite discouraging to hear that our two freshman big men can't rebound.

Carlos

08-06-2008, 02:15 PM

None of which really supports your point that Elliot is a good PG prospect. And are you seriously saying a guy's position in HS doesn't mean much compared to college? Perhaps you meant to phrase that a different way, but I would venture to say the vast majority of high school players who go on to college play a very similar position to that of HS. You cleverly give an example of big guy in HS transitioning to wing in college, but it is much less likely to happen at the PG situation since lack of height is not really an issue.

Yeah, I'm seriously saying that it doesn't mean much. It doesn't mean that they don't end up playing the same position, but that's not the reason that it would occur. Let me put it this way - if a guy is a natural point guard in HS but he's 6-4 and he plays on a team that has a bunch of good guards but not much size up front, he's likely going to end up playing up a position or two because of the composition of the roster.

Essentially the Nate James comparison can be viewed two ways. Maybe Nate moved to the inside in HS because the team needed him there rather than moving to the wing in college because that's where his size dictated. Basically college teams are generally bigger than HS teams.

I am aware that McD AA games are not anything like real college games, but from what I understand they are similar to the Pro Am in that they are up-tempo with not as much defense being played. Here is the key - are guys actually Ding up hard on him in these games when he's handling the ball? When I saw that happen in the McD AA game, he seemed to get flustered.

It's not like there's constant D but there are times when he is getting pressure depending upon the competition and the game situation. I'd say that in competitive terms for the most the games are more advanced than the all-star games.

For the record, I've seen him play about 5 times in the pro-am league and I've yet to seem him flustered by anyone.

I would be thrilled if he ends up being a better PG prospect than Nolan. I just have heard very little to suggest that until very recently. And like somebody else intimated, if we land Boynton this could end up being a moot point anyway, since he'll probably have the ball in his hands whenever our primary PG doesn't (if he doesn't become primary PG himself).

Take a look at his Scout profile where they state that he's "capable of playing up to three positions on the perimeter" or where they list his strengths as including "multi-positional."

Let me add that I've never stated that Williams would be Duke's starting point guard at any time in his career. He will primarily be a wing player at Duke. It's just that from what I and others have observed, he has point guard skills and at least in my estimation, he's more likely to end up backing up Paulus as the season progresses.

Richard Berg

08-06-2008, 02:39 PM

You obviously don't remember many UNC-Duke games. Left open - he killed us.
Left open, sure. "Don't shoot Jawad" is one of my all-time favorite cheers from my days in Cameron

Last night he would shoot with someone right in his face, off balance, fading away, or all of the above - didn't matter. It was sick.

Edouble

08-06-2008, 02:50 PM

Essentially the Nate James comparison can be viewed two ways. Maybe Nate moved to the inside in HS because the team needed him there rather than moving to the wing in college because that's where his size dictated. Basically college teams are generally bigger than HS teams.

I also think that Nate's injuries played a big role in his shift. He had to redefine himself as a player after his injuries. Pre-injury, he was a lot more athletic (think Chris Wilcox) and his athleticism made up for a few inches of height down low. After his injuries, his loss of athleticism forced him to become a bigger, more powerful guard that could play lock down defense.

Richard Berg

08-06-2008, 02:54 PM

Huh? Chris Wilcox is 5 inches taller than Nate Dogg.

dukeENG2003

08-06-2008, 03:26 PM

1st game: no Dukies. The Ilian and Vas Evtimov (who knew he had an even bigger brother?) dominated the much smaller and less experienced NCCU front line in every respect.

Vas Evitmov played at UNC before he was ruled ineligible by the NCAA circa 1998-1999.

G's shot was DEFINITELY encouraging. HE ended up with 26, and probably should have had more (he was trying to involve his teammates more, when he really should have been shooting the open 3 more).

Can the "Will E-Will play point" discussion be moved to another thread?

BlueintheFace

08-06-2008, 03:42 PM

The real point here is that Elliot may be ABLE to play the point, but is not needed there on this team, and being ABLE to play the position certainly does not mean that he will start at the position as a Sophomore over a more experienced Nolan Smith, as has been previously asserted on this thread. Furthermore, 6'4" players in the NCAA (coincidentally, where Duke plays) most often play at the shooting guard spot or "wing" spot. What goes on in the NBA is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to where Elliot will play on this team.

Carlos

08-06-2008, 05:31 PM

I don't believe that Nate lost much athleticism due to his ankle injury. Besides, it's hard to be a lock down perimeter defender if you've lost athleticism.

Vasco Evtimov played one year at UNC and then opted to go to France to fulfill his military obligation (insert your own French Army joke here). While there he played a few games with a French professional team but did so as an amateur without accepting money. He was advised by UNC that this would be OK with the NCAA and upon his return to the Heels the NCAA suspended him for about half the season.

I told the people I was sitting with last night that Vasco's passing reminds me of a young Arvydas Sabonis. Of course his mobility reminds me of an old Arvydas Sabonis.

ForeverBlowingBubbles

08-06-2008, 05:51 PM

Paulus is the only true point anyways.... if he's not on the court, PG duties will probably be shared somewhat... It's just good to know we have another guy on the perimeter that is able to create.

It is troubling to hear out big guys are not rebounding well.

Devils Rock

08-06-2008, 06:37 PM

It is troubling to hear out big guys are not rebounding well.

No doubt. Fortunately, our rebounding last year was so strong that we won't need anybody to step it up in that regard anyway.

CameronCrazy'11

08-06-2008, 08:48 PM

Elliot's not gonna spend much time actually "playing the point". Paulus and Smith will do that. But having a second guard who's 6'4" with point guard skills is definitely an asset.

quickgtp

08-06-2008, 09:02 PM

CameronCrazy'11

08-06-2008, 09:19 PM

We actually have 4 guys that could run the point next year. Obviously Paulus and Smith will get the majority of minutes, but Jon and Email could fill the void if needed be.....Am I off the wall with that thinking?:confused:

Absolutely not. All 4 of these guys will bring the ball down the court at some point. But Paulus and Smith will be the primary point guards when on the court.

Jumbo

08-06-2008, 09:32 PM

My definition of a Wing is a 3 who can rebound, pass, shoot. I denitely do not consider JJ or Ben Gordon or some of theose guys wings.

Uh, no. A wing is a 2 or a 3. Period. Literally, the wing is the are of the court between the corner and top of the key. That's how the "position" got its name -- guys who "play" there tend to be twos and threes (a gross oversimplification, obviously, but apt in this respect).

CameronCrazy'11

08-06-2008, 09:43 PM

Uh, no. A wing is a 2 or a 3. Period. Literally, the wing is the are of the court between the corner and top of the key. That's how the "position" got its name -- guys who "play" there tend to be twos and threes (a gross oversimplification, obviously, but apt in this respect).

Elliot is certainly tall enough to be a 2 in the NBA if he has the skills. Assuming he's really 6'4".

Bob Green

08-06-2008, 10:24 PM

No doubt. Fortunately, our rebounding last year was so strong that we won't need anybody to step it up in that regard anyway.

Rebounding was a huge weakness last season. In the NCAA Tournament loss to West Virginia we were outrebounded 45-19. We definitely need somebody to step up and provide consistent rebounding presence.

3rd Dukie

08-07-2008, 12:08 AM

Rebounding was a huge weakness last season. In the NCAA Tournament loss to West Virginia we were outrebounded 45-19. We definitely need somebody to step up and provide consistent rebounding presence.

Um, Bob: I'm kinda thinkin' there was more than a tad of sarcasm in that statement. Call me crazy, but...

Bob Green

08-07-2008, 12:15 AM

Um, Bob: I'm kinda thinkin' there was more than a tad of sarcasm in that statement. Call me crazy, but...

You might be right as sarcasm is hard to pick-up on a message board post unless the poster utilizes smileys or related indicators. I interpreted the post as serious but readily admit it could've just gone straight over my head.

skitelz

08-07-2008, 12:33 AM

We actually have 4 guys that could run the point next year. Obviously Paulus and Smith will get the majority of minutes, but Jon and Email could fill the void if needed be.....Am I off the wall with that thinking?:confused:

i agree with you that we have four players who could potentially play the point. Isnt is great!!! im so excited about this season and the next. i know everyone keeps arguing about who starts and gets minutes, but no matter how you shake the roster out, we have TWO teams that could play with just about any team in the country. we havent had that in years!!

CameronCrazy'11

08-07-2008, 12:36 AM

i agree with you that we have four players who could potentially play the point. Isnt is great!!! im so excited about this season and the next. i know everyone keeps arguing about who starts and gets minutes, but no matter how you shake the roster out, we have TWO teams that could play with just about any team in the country. we havent had that in years!!

The depth is definitely there. We may have the best bench of any team in the country. If our starters can turn into legitimate stars than we're in for great things.

Bob Green

08-07-2008, 04:16 AM

...but no matter how you shake the roster out, we have TWO teams that could play with just about any team in the country.

I nominate this post for Overstatement of the Month. :)

CameronCrazy'11

08-07-2008, 04:32 AM

I nominate this post for Overstatement of the Month. :)

I'm not so sure. I'll take "two teams" to really mean two starting line-ups. I submit that either of these two starting line-ups would be top-25 and capable of beating anyone on a really good night:

Nolan
Scheyer
Gerald
Lance
Olek/ Miles

Greg
Elliot
Marty/ Dave
Kyle
Brian

However you divide them, there's no doubt that we have some serious depth.

Bob Green

08-07-2008, 06:18 AM

I'm not so sure. I'll take "two teams" to really mean two starting line-ups. I submit that either of these two starting line-ups would be top-25 and capable of beating anyone on a really good night:

Nolan
Scheyer
Gerald
Lance
Olek/ Miles

Greg
Elliot
Marty/ Dave
Kyle
Brian

However you divide them, there's no doubt that we have some serious depth.

I understand the post meant two starting line-ups and was intended to illustrate how deep and talented we will be next season, but my take is that the post is stereotypical summer euphoria. This time last year many people (hmm...such as that venerable prognosticator Bob Green) were touting how deep we were going to be and some folks were talking about Taylor King averaging double-digit scoring and minutes and others were worried about Kyle Singler turning pro after one season because he was going to be so dominant and ..................

We are going to be good but there are plenty of question marks which must still be answered such as:

1. Will we have a post presence? Or, is Zoubek healthy/Thomas improved?
2. Can the new players contribute?
3. Are the other veterans healthy? Specifically, has Henderson fully recovered from off-season surgery? Is Scheyer okay? Am I the only one wondering why he hasn't been participating in the NC Pro-Am? How about Paulus? Coach K stated Paulus took 3 months off rehabbing a sore knee.

We lost DeMarcus Nelson who was the ACC Defensive Player of the Year and our leading scorer and will replace him in the rotation with a freshman. Two other freshman are serious question marks, and multiple players are recovering from off season surgery/rehab.

Let's not get carried away with how we can field two Top 25 teams and focus on fielding one team that can achieve success and make a run deep into the NCAA tournament.

CameronCrazy'11

08-07-2008, 06:35 AM

Yea, I definitely get what you're saying. However, I think objectively you have to agree that we look even better today than we did a year ago. Our post play almost has to be better considering that we didn't lose anyone (not considering King a post), everyone is a year older, and we have one player coming off injury and two coming in who will help to some extent. We lose Demarcus Nelson but return four very talented guards and add one who appears to be a pretty solid prospect. Even if you assume very modest improvement in our returners and contributions from our freshmen, this looks to be Duke's best team since at least 2006, with a real shot to go deep into the tourney. I'm excited.

yancem

08-07-2008, 08:28 AM

I'm not so sure. I'll take "two teams" to really mean two starting line-ups. I submit that either of these two starting line-ups would be top-25 and capable of beating anyone on a really good night:

Nolan
Scheyer
Gerald
Lance
Olek/ Miles

Greg
Elliot
Marty/ Dave
Kyle
Brian

However you divide them, there's no doubt that we have some serious depth.

Nice how you divide the starters among both teams. The thing is by doing so I'm not sure either team would be top 25. In the first team you have 2 unproven freshman playing center and a power forward who hasn't proven he can score consistently. It would be almost completely perimeter oriented. The second team would certainly be scrappy but Zoubek hasn't proven he can a) stay healthy or b) stay in the game for long stretches of minutes, which would place Singler at the 5 where he is undersized and got worn down last year. Plus Marty and Paulus are weak defensively and McClure has to prove he can score.

I won't argue that Duke doesn't have good depth or that next season isn't looking like a real good one. I'm really looking forward to next season, I think that we have a legitimate chance at making a final four run. But if we have to rely heavily on either of the line ups that you listed we will struggle to make the tournament.

Diddy

08-07-2008, 08:42 AM

First time poster! Yay.

Sorry that this is so late comming, but I have to go back to the Nolan Smith E-Will pg discussion.

First, where they played in HS should have no relation. That argument is very specious when applied to E-Will as opposed to Nolan. I have no idea who E-Will's pg was in hs. For all I know he shared the ball with a nominal PG because his HS coach felt that E-will was better off the ball.

But I do know that Nolan played with the best PG of that PG's respective year each of his last three years. During his Soph and Jr year he was with Lawson, who is a very good pass first PG. Lawson dominated the ball. During his Sr year Smith played with Brandon Jennings, the top PG in the last class. Both Lawson and Jennings were truly Elite pg talents who handled the vast, vast majority of ball handling and playmaking duties at Oak Hill. Nolan was a SG, almost exclusively. He got some run at PG when the starter was out, but is my understanding that those minutes were not excessive.

Nolan showed great promise at the position last year. E-will may do the same. It is true that a 6-4 guy can make it in the league as a SG. But an athletic 6-4 pg is a hot comodity in the league. The former player can be a key player. The latter can be a superstar. E-will may be looking to make a position change to maximize his size/athleticism/skills. If a 6-4 near-elite athlete can learn to be a pass first pg, good for him (and Duke, because that type of switch will take 2-3 years, minimum). Nolan will still get on the court, even if E-will were to become the starting PG next year. Having two guys with PG skills and athleticism worked out ok in 2001.

We don't need to worry about it, one way or the other. The best players at a given position will be on the court.

jv001

08-07-2008, 09:24 AM

For Duke to be very good this year, Kyle Singler cannot guard the opposing center every game. Therefore someone must step up for us to be very good. I think it could be Brian if he's healthy. LT is more of a power forward without the power. I love the intensity he brings on defense, but his rebounding needs improvement. Nolan and Williams bring good on the ball defense to the team, but they must be able to make the outside shot to earn minutes. I think they will. Looking forward to "tipoff".

gvtucker

08-07-2008, 09:40 AM

bleeddukeblue

08-07-2008, 10:23 AM

I agree I have seen E-Will play defense he will be a defensive stopper! We need 2 on the ball defenders. I think that why Scheyer had to play point some last year to make up for Paulus defensive play. We won't beat Wake Forest with out 2 on the ball defenders.

3rd Dukie

08-07-2008, 02:00 PM

I understand the post meant two starting line-ups and was intended to illustrate how deep and talented we will be next season, but my take is that the post is stereotypical summer euphoria. This time last year many people (hmm...such as that venerable prognosticator Bob Green) were touting how deep we were going to be and some folks were talking about Taylor King averaging double-digit scoring and minutes and others were worried about Kyle Singler turning pro after one season because he was going to be so dominant and ..................

We are going to be good but there are plenty of question marks which must still be answered such as:

1. Will we have a post presence? Or, is Zoubek healthy/Thomas improved?
2. Can the new players contribute?
3. Are the other veterans healthy? Specifically, has Henderson fully recovered from off-season surgery? Is Scheyer okay? Am I the only one wondering why he hasn't been participating in the NC Pro-Am? How about Paulus? Coach K stated Paulus took 3 months off rehabbing a sore knee.

We lost DeMarcus Nelson who was the ACC Defensive Player of the Year and our leading scorer and will replace him in the rotation with a freshman. Two other freshman are serious question marks, and multiple players are recovering from off season surgery/rehab.

Let's not get carried away with how we can field two Top 25 teams and focus on fielding one team that can achieve success and make a run deep into the NCAA tournament.

I nominate this for "Common Sense Post of the Month".
I plead guilty to irrational exuberance myself last summer.

Devils Rock

08-07-2008, 02:43 PM

[QUOTE]First time poster! Yay.

Welcome to the boards Diddy! Always good to have another Devils fan to bring an opinion and a love of the Devils into the mix.

E-will may be looking to make a position change to maximize his size/athleticism/skills.

I agreed with much of what you said about EW and Nolan possibly playing off the ball in HS for entirely different reasons. However, whatever EW may or may not be "looking to do" will have little relevance to Coach K. K has a long history of playing guys in the roles he needs from them with little regard for their personal desires.

We don't need to worry about it, one way or the other. The best players at a given position will be on the court.

Well said. At the end of the day, all that matters is that we've got the right team of complementary players on the court at any given time.

watzone

08-07-2008, 02:55 PM

IMO, you should completely ignore a player's performance in summer league hoops when evaluating his prospects for the real games come fall. Some guys play drunk, some guys don't play D, some guys won't hustle.

Moreover, you can't even look at those guys who aren't playing well for various reasons and extrapolate that to predict that they won't be good college or even professional players. There are plenty of players on that level that can truly turn it on and off when they'd like. Heck, I've known Duke players from days gone by that would just look flat horrible for every reason I've cited (drunkeness and not playing D included) that would just light up the court when practice started in October.

I haven't seen any of the action at NCCU. I'm sure it has been entertaining, but you shouldn't take it for anything more.

I agree that judging too much from pick ups or summer leagues is sometimes unwise. Kyle Singler is a perfect example. He is not up for all tournament team voting, but he will turn it up when it counts in the season and we all know that. You can't see his full ability in that the guards hog the ball on his team.

Then there is the perception that dunks are greater than a steal and pass or key rebound. Singler is doing it all, but the crowd generally remembers the flashy plays and tunes the rest out. However, some see what is going on ... the passes, the help defense, etc.

But then again, we all realize what Singler can do. Still, you can certainly see if a player has talent or athletic abilty from watching them in almost any game. And these games are organized with refs. To say they "may" be coming to these games drunk is a bit over the top, IMO.

These players are more often than not under the watchful eyes of many. Carrawell often accompanies the Duke kids, so I feel certain they are not buzzed;) On the other hand, there is little defense once the ball enters the paint other than a hard foul.

I feel if one has watched enough basketball, they can evaluate what they are seeing and pick and choose what to ignore to get a fairly clear picture. I take in account the lack of defense, having played together, etc.

That said, I completely disagree with your statement you should "completely" ignore a players performance in pro am games.

Edouble

08-07-2008, 03:32 PM

That said, I completely disagree with your statement you should "completely" ignore a players performance in pro am games.

Yes, you should "completely" ignore persons that speak in extremes. ;)

Diddy

08-07-2008, 04:31 PM

[QUOTE=Diddy;174233]

I agreed with much of what you said about EW and Nolan possibly playing off the ball in HS for entirely different reasons. However, whatever EW may or may not be "looking to do" will have little relevance to Coach K. K has a long history of playing guys in the roles he needs from them with little regard for their personal desires.

When I said that about EW, I merely meant that he might be trying to expand his repotoire to include lead or pg skills on his CV, if you will. K will play him where and how K wants to play him. I think that EW might be trying to turn himself into a PG for the next level. If he develops those skills, K will let him showcase those skills.

It is not that EW will PUSH K into a decision. If EW applies his athleticism and skills to being a good PG, then he will PULL K into a decision by being so good that K can't not play him at PG. If that is what EW wants, of which I have no proof.

DevilDan

08-07-2008, 04:35 PM

I think Edouble just said it best. Out here on the Pacific Coast, I would know nothing at this point about our new guys, had it not been for DBR, and the curious DUKE fans who have been at the Summer League and reported with a passion.

Now I know the strengths and weaknesses of OC, Miles & Elliott -- and more important, THEY had a chance to show what they can do against "upperclassmen", right ?? What's not to LIKE ??

Thanks to everybody who has gone there and brought back the smack on our guys. At least we now have a reasonable feel for what our three freshmen (GO OLEK! haha) can bring to the team this year.

gvtucker

08-07-2008, 04:58 PM

I agree that judging too much from pick ups or summer leagues is sometimes unwise. Kyle Singler is a perfect example. He is not up for all tournament team voting, but he will turn it up when it counts in the season and we all know that. You can't see his full ability in that the guards hog the ball on his team.

Then there is the perception that dunks are greater than a steal and pass or key rebound. Singler is doing it all, but the crowd generally remembers the flashy plays and tunes the rest out. However, some see what is going on ... the passes, the help defense, etc.

But then again, we all realize what Singler can do. Still, you can certainly see if a player has talent or athletic abilty from watching them in almost any game. And these games are organized with refs. To say they "may" be coming to these games drunk is a bit over the top, IMO.

These players are more often than not under the watchful eyes of many. Carrawell often accompanies the Duke kids, so I feel certain they are not buzzed;) On the other hand, there is little defense once the ball enters the paint other than a hard foul.

I feel if one has watched enough basketball, they can evaluate what they are seeing and pick and choose what to ignore to get a fairly clear picture. I take in account the lack of defense, having played together, etc.

That said, I completely disagree with your statement you should "completely" ignore a players performance in pro am games.

Well, you're certainly free to disagree. I've just seen far too many examples of experts making very poor assessments of players based on these games to worry about a player's apparent shortcomings or celebrate a sleeper's talents based upon summer league games.

A perfect example is your thought that players coming to the games drunk is over the top. I can assure you it happens. Other times, maybe it is a bit more innocent, a case of a kid having a summer job that completely wears him out all day, and makes him look slow at games in the evening.

Carlos

08-07-2008, 08:40 PM

watzone

08-07-2008, 10:32 PM

I think the bigger danger here isn't the player showing up drunk but rather the guys posting on the games showing up drunk.

I'm pretty sure I saw Elliot Williams take off from halfcourt and dunk it the other night.

It wasn't half court, los. He clearly leaped from atop the scorers table. So, were we drunk or was EWill? I just can't see Singler saying to Stackhouse, "let's throw down a couple of brews before we go at it." When I see a player request a boof bag on the bench or stumble a little sideways, I will buy it. That brings up the question, where is the line between drunk and a little buzzed? I might fall for a player or two being buzzed, but what I know as drunk would be a little too obvious to miss. I mean, I've seen Carlos late night;) I am pretty darn sure no Duke players are going to the games drunk and I have certainly not seen anyone look it other than the fans body language after the occasional OC dunk. As for being tired, I would buy that.

Why are we hating on the summer league? Good news, it ends after this weekend. Heck, just reading this thread makes me on an ice cold longneck.