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View Full Version : Kyle Singler better be Larry Byrd



lavell12
03-22-2007, 04:58 PM
Some people are comparing the Oregonian to the Indiana State star and this kid better be the real deal for Duke to do anything next year.

juise
03-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Who's this Byrd fellow of whom you speak?

RelativeWays
03-22-2007, 05:16 PM
He's the bizzaro world version of the Hick from French Lick. Like Majyk Jonsen and Mikkal Jordin...you know, them.

Bob Green
03-22-2007, 05:20 PM
Kyle Singler is a very versatile player who has the potential to develop into a great player. Do not underestimate the ability of the other freshmen: Nolan Smith is quick, can beat people off the dribble and is a strong perimeter defender. He may solve our inability to stop dribble penetration. Taylor King is a great shooter with long range. He is also a tough rebounder. These three freshman will bring tremendous talent into the program. Hopefully, PP will decide on Duke and make it a quartet.

We also have 8 scholarship players returning. They will all be a year older and a year better.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

dukeisawesome
03-22-2007, 05:29 PM
I think Nolan Smith is the key to next year moreso than Singler. We just need someone who can penetrate. It makes everything sooo much easier. Paulus can't penetrate, but having him on the floor hitting 3s and helping run the offense without having to drive would be big. Demarcus would also be a lot better getting a pass after Smith had gotten the D out of sync. Scheyer would get more open looks from 3. We have intelligent players so I think ball movement will be excellent once we get someone who can break the D down off the dribble. I hope Nolan is that guy.

VaDukie
03-22-2007, 05:37 PM
lavell12 is a frontrunner for the chicken little award.

In all seriousness, guys, we'll be better next year. Henderson & Scheyer with a summer of conditiong, Paulus with a backup point guard, Thomas & Zoubek with a summer in the weight room...you get the idea.

I know it's painful to say and I know Ohio State and NC are winning with young teams too...but we're young...

RelativeWays
03-22-2007, 05:38 PM
I think Nolan Smith is the key to next year moreso than Singler. We just need someone who can penetrate. It makes everything sooo much easier. Paulus can't penetrate, but having him on the floor hitting 3s and helping run the offense without having to drive would be big. Demarcus would also be a lot better getting a pass after Smith had gotten the D out of sync. Scheyer would get more open looks from 3. We have intelligent players so I think ball movement will be excellent once we get someone who can break the D down off the dribble. I hope Nolan is that guy.

Just as long as Smith is comfortable handling the ball. Nelson and Scheyer handle the ball with all the aplomb of dribbling a time bomb. You can tell they're eager to get rid of it. Not having McRoberts next year could hurt if Smith struggles.

Jumbo
03-22-2007, 05:42 PM
Some people are comparing the Oregonian to the Indiana State star and this kid better be the real deal for Duke to do anything next year.

Yeah, Duke is doomed. Not only that, but Taylor King had better be Chris Mullin and Brian Zoubek had better turn into Bill Walton. Geez Louise; I can't get over some of the pessimism and faulty analysis of next year's team.

Jumbo
03-22-2007, 05:45 PM
Just as long as Smith is comfortable handling the ball. Nelson and Scheyer handle the ball with all the aplomb of dribbling a time bomb. You can tell they're eager to get rid of it. Not having McRoberts next year could hurt if Smith struggles.

Scheyer looked pretty darn comfortable to me, including against VCU's traps. He had two turnovers in 35 minutes. And Nelson is a fine dribbler. Sure, he overpenetrates and has his head down, which affects his passing, but he's absolutely comfortable dribbling the ball against pressure.

_Gary
03-22-2007, 05:49 PM
Yeah, Duke is doomed... I can't get over some of the pessimism and faulty analysis of next year's team.

Jumbo, I agree that the pessimism for next year is over the top. But how much do you feel Duke needs to land Patterson to increase their chances at being really good next year? I think he's a must if we are to entertain legit Elite Eight aspirations (which I think is very possible with PP in the fold). I'd say without him we are Sweet 16 material, but that's about it. Too big a hole in the middle if he doesn't come. What do you think?

Gary

mr. synellinden
03-22-2007, 05:53 PM
I think Nolan Smith is the key to next year moreso than Singler. We just need someone who can penetrate. It makes everything sooo much easier. Paulus can't penetrate, but having him on the floor hitting 3s and helping run the offense without having to drive would be big. Demarcus would also be a lot better getting a pass after Smith had gotten the D out of sync. Scheyer would get more open looks from 3. We have intelligent players so I think ball movement will be excellent once we get someone who can break the D down off the dribble. I hope Nolan is that guy.
I agree that Duke's biggest weakness this season was the inability to break down defenses off the dribble. I believe it is the primary reason we went such long stretches without scoring and it is definitely something that Paulus lacks. I also agree that Nolan Smith has "beat you off the dribble and break down the defense capability." So does Henderson and we will see a lot of that next season from him. I think the second Carolina game this year will be Gerald's average game next year - meaning that's the kind of production we can expect from him (minus the elbow and DQ).

That being said, Singler is the key for us next season. I really believe he is that good. I haven't been this excited about a recruit since Grant Hill.

(By the way, Jason Williams was, in my opininon, the best beat you off the dribble, break down a defense, player Duke has ever had. I am sure there are some who would argue JD, but JW had the most incredible combination of quickness and strength maybe of any college player in the last 10 years. That would be an interesting debate.)

OldDukie
03-22-2007, 06:06 PM
I hope k has the guys running all summer. We now have a team that can really run. Hope it happens.

BlueDevilBaby
03-22-2007, 06:11 PM
"(By the way, Jason Williams was, in my opininon, the best beat you off the dribble, break down a defense, player Duke has ever had. I am sure there are some who would argue JD, but JW had the most incredible combination of quickness and strength maybe of any college player in the last 10 years. That would be an interesting debate.)"

I seem to remember him driving and dishing pretty well too. But Jason sure could finish!

You guys are getting me excited for the McDonalds game and next year already!:p

mr. synellinden
03-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Okay, because of this thread, I just watched this you tube clip again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etarE-rRNMg. Check out the drive and the spin move about 1:30 into the video. He starts with the ball nearly at half court. Keep in mind Singler is playing against the #1 team in the country. What 6'8" kid can do that?

Check out his reaction after the dunk in the fourth quarter - about 3:20 in.

39 points (16 - 26 from the field)!

Remember those games when you'd be watching and yell at the TV - just get it to JJ!! Or just get the ball to Williams!!. Or just give it to Laettner!! Or get it to Grant!!

I am telling you, next year we will all be yelling "get the ball to kyle!"

By the way, Nolan Smith looked very smooth in this game also.

mgtr
03-22-2007, 06:17 PM
If we lose one pretty good player (McBob) and gain three (maybe even four, but maybe not) pretty good players, how can we be worse? Plus, as others have stated, we have several players (Thomas and Zoubek) who should improve immensely with a summer's training. I, at least, excited. If (50/50 at best, I guess) we get Patterson, I will almost be unable to restrain myself. Only about seven months until the blue/white scrimmage! Go Duke!

throatybeard
03-22-2007, 06:19 PM
Who's this Byrd fellow of whom you speak?

A South Dakotan boxer, apparently:

http://www.rushfuneralhome.com/larry_byrd_obituary.htm

mr. synellinden
03-22-2007, 06:20 PM
I think Hurley was a better drive, draw and dish guy than Jason but Hurley had trouble finishing his first two seasons. His Jr. and Sr. seasons he corrected that flaw and became a complete offensive player. He was also the best conditioned player I've ever seen.

Jumbo
03-22-2007, 06:26 PM
Jumbo, I agree that the pessimism for next year is over the top. But how much do you feel Duke needs to land Patterson to increase their chances at being really good next year? I think he's a must if we are to entertain legit Elite Eight aspirations (which I think is very possible with PP in the fold). I'd say without him we are Sweet 16 material, but that's about it. Too big a hole in the middle if he doesn't come. What do you think?

Gary

I'm going to hedge like a politician here. I'm very interested in seeing what a summer in Duke's weight training program will do for Brian Zoubek. I'm not even worried about his offense (more on that in a second). As long as he's mobile enough to play Duke defense and can hold his ground on the block, Duke can be very good with Big Z giving them 25 minutes. And considering that most teams don't have lots of talented 6'10" guys waiting on the bench, Lance would be fine defensively in relief of him.

The reason I'm not worried about Zoubek's offense is that I think Kyle Singler is going to be really, really good. All the frustrating things about McRoberts -- finishing around the basket, making real post moves, hitting jumpers -- he can do. He is the perfect prototype for a Duke "4" -- great inside/outside skills. In fact, I think the dirty little secret about Duke's offense this year was that neither the 4 nor the 5 could hit from the outside. I can't think of another team besides ... wait for it ... the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, where Duke was in that situation.

I'm not one for going out on a limb. But last year, at this time, everyone was gaga for Henderson, and I said that Scheyer was going to be the better player. I'd seen enough (and heard more than enough from people who know a lot more than I do) to be convinced of that. It certainly played out that way. So, I'll throw this one out there, since it's the subject of this thread. Comparing anyone to Larry Bird is absurd. Every good white player gets that label. But from what I've seen of Singler, some of the similarities are eerie. The form, the moves, the feel for the game ... Singler is going to be very special, right away. And Duke's offense will improve dramatically as a result.

Patterson would obviously be an important get. However, I don't see him in quite the same light as Brand/Boozer/Williams. He's not the offensive force that Brand and Boozer were right away -- his post moves aren't as polished and he's not as good a shooter. And he's not the shot-blocker Williams was. I don't think he's a legit 6'8," and I don't think he'll ever be as thick as those guys. I look at him more like a better Chuck Hayes, which would still be huge. And he'd definitely give Duke a huge lift. I just don't want anyone to expect him to be a savior -- it's not fair to the kid.

throatybeard
03-22-2007, 06:33 PM
Jumbo is the Larry Bird of the DBR bulletin board.

JasonEvans
03-22-2007, 06:39 PM
Jumbo, I agree that the pessimism for next year is over the top. But how much do you feel Duke needs to land Patterson to increase their chances at being really good next year? I think he's a must if we are to entertain legit Elite Eight aspirations (which I think is very possible with PP in the fold). I'd say without him we are Sweet 16 material, but that's about it. Too big a hole in the middle if he doesn't come. What do you think?

Gary,

I know you are making a point-- and a fairly legit one-- but the difference in being a Sweet 16 team and a final 8 team is largely just luck of the draw. If you are good enough to be a legit Sweet 16 team, all you need is a good break or two to be a national champ. Yes, I am serious. Similarly, you can be good enough to be a national champ but if you run into some untimely bad luck, you can easily be out in the first or second round.

Just being a pain-- sorry ;)

-Jason "while I think PP would be a big boost to us, I think we are still a top 10 team without him" Evans

throatybeard
03-22-2007, 06:45 PM
Gary,

The difference in being a Sweet 16 team and a final 8 team is largely just luck of the draw. If you are good enough to be a legit Sweet 16 team, all you need is a good break or two to be a national champ. Yes, I am serious. Similarly, you can be good enough to be a national champ but if you run into some untimely bad luck, you can easily be out in the first or second round.

Word.

I wonder if Sean Woods, Richie Farmer, John Pelphrey and Aminu Timberlake consider the 1992 Duke team "an elite eight" team or "a national championship" team.

grossbus
03-22-2007, 06:48 PM
"but he's absolutely comfortable dribbling the ball against pressure."

yeah, it is dribbling into the lane that gets him into trouble.

juise
03-22-2007, 07:08 PM
Jumbo is the Larry Bird of the DBR bulletin board.

... or, dare I say... the Larry Byrd of this board. ;) (Thanks for the research, Throaty.)

DukeBlood
03-22-2007, 07:18 PM
Jumbo-

I was one of those many people who thought Henderson would be better then Scheyer right away, I was wrong. So I ask you, Do you think Henderson will be better then Scheyer this year? IMO I think so. Scheyer will be a dangerous player(especially if he can work on his 3-point shot).

I have only seen Kyle play once, His shot wasnt falling that night but he still looked good. He had open looks but just seemed to not finish that night. Anyone who says this guy Isnt athletic has never seen him before.. He may not be able to jump out of the gym, but he is quick for a 6'8 player and very very smooth. Almost makes it look too easy for some one his size.

grossbus
03-22-2007, 07:46 PM
i really wish would could avoide these expectations-building comparisons. bird or byrd, leave it be. zoobs was supposed to be the next G-man. LT another Al Thornton. scheyer more complete than JJ...ALREADY.

i can't tell you how disappointed i have been in recent years with hype on this board about incoming freshman being so far out of touch with the reality of their skills.

MChambers
03-22-2007, 08:03 PM
I think Jumbo is the Larry Byrd of the Duke bulletin board! A South Dakota boxer who can write on hoops!
This thread has made me smile. I agree with Jumbo. From what I've seen, Singler will help our offense a great deal. I'd like to add Patterson to the mix inside, however, especially for defense.
I think Smith also will help on the offense, with his speed and ballhandling. I think he and Paulus in the game together will be a nice combination, but I realize we've a got a few other guards who can play.

Clipsfan
03-22-2007, 08:56 PM
i really wish would could avoide these expectations-building comparisons. bird or byrd, leave it be. zoobs was supposed to be the next G-man. LT another Al Thornton. scheyer more complete than JJ...ALREADY.

i can't tell you how disappointed i have been in recent years with hype on this board about incoming freshman being so far out of touch with the reality of their skills.

We really don't know if those comparisons are off, given that it's hard to compare the freshmen that we saw this year with the likely seniors that you are thinking about. It's very possible that the guys can live up to expectations, as they've shown flashes already (or in Scheyer's case, more than flashes).

CMS2478
03-23-2007, 10:26 AM
When I see the videos I don't see a Larry Bird or a Larry Byrd ;) I see a much quicker Dirk Notwiski ( I have not idea how to spell his last name and too lazy to look it up) The way he takes a couple of dribbles and then pulls up around the free-throw line is almost a carbon copy of Dirk's patented moves. I'm very excited about Singler and I hope he develops much quicker than Henderson. With them two being able to create their own shots and Paulus and Sheyer bombing the threes.................lookout!!! :D

Rich
03-23-2007, 10:54 AM
I can't think of another team besides ... wait for it ... the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, where Duke was in that situation.

Jumbo,

I've seen this a few times in your recent posts. A big Barney from "How I Met Your Mother" fan, are you?

OldDukie
03-23-2007, 11:00 AM
Without McRoberts we are without a real "big man". Altho he didn't like to set up inside,he was a presence. Zoubec may be a year away from being dominant. Thomas can't cure all his needs in a long summer in the weight room. The cure for having guards drive by out guys is to have a presence waiting for them-remember Shelden? We will be lacking that next year and will suffer because of it. Year after next we will win it all.We need Monroe. Next year I believe our new Freshmen will add a lot. Scheyer and Henderson will be great. Paulus will be much better. Singlar will play immediately.If Patterson comes,he will play but probably won't fill the need in the middle until late in the season. He will need time to learn the college game. K will change our offence to suit this group. I hope it will be to run for that can take the inside pressure off somewhat and our team is deep with runners. We have scorers coming in which really helps. I think top two in the ACC is reasonable!

gus
03-23-2007, 11:37 AM
i really wish would could avoide these expectations-building comparisons. bird or byrd, leave it be. zoobs was supposed to be the next G-man. LT another Al Thornton. scheyer more complete than JJ...ALREADY.

i can't tell you how disappointed i have been in recent years with hype on this board about incoming freshman being so far out of touch with the reality of their skills.


It's nuts isn't it? I don't care who it is, when you compare a player to someone like Larry Bird, you're going to be disappointed. There's a reason they're legends... because they don't come around that often.

feldspar
03-23-2007, 11:47 AM
Some people are comparing the Oregonian to the Indiana State star and this kid better be the real deal for Duke to do anything next year.

So you expect Singler to come in and average 28 points per game next year?

Sorry, but don't get your hopes up.

gus
03-23-2007, 12:17 PM
So you expect Singler to come in and average 28 points per game next year?

Sorry, but don't get your hopes up.

Don't be silly, feldspar. It doesn't matter what he averages, as long as he leads duke to the final four next year. Anything less, and he, the team, and most prominently, Coach K, will all be major disappointments. How many seasons has it been since we were in the final four? We're owed one.

If Patterson comes too, then we should get a championship.

phaedrus
03-23-2007, 12:51 PM
So you expect Singler to come in and average 28 points per game next year?

Sorry, but don't get your hopes up.

given how the college talent level has been diluted by early entry, i think it would be more realistic for singler to average something like 35-40 a game. anyone can average 28 nowadays.

JJweMISSu
03-23-2007, 12:52 PM
WOW DO U REMEMBER THE LAST TWO YEAR? ARE RECRUITS LOOKED AND SOUNDED REAL GOOD. bUT THE THING THEY NEEDED WAS A YEAR OR TWO. A PREFECT EXAMPLE IS JON SCHYER. I MEAN HE DIDNT DO **** IN THE TOURNEY OR AT THE END OF THE YEAR BECAUSE HE LOOKED A LITTLE SHELL SHOCKED NOW NEXT YEAR HE WILL MAKE BIGGER STEPS LIKE JJ DID IN HIS YEARS. BECAUSE AT FIRST IF YOU REMEBER JJ NEVER DROVE KIND OF LIKE JON.(JON DOES DRIVE A LITTLE MORE THAN JJ DID AS A FRESH). I THINK WITH THESE RECRUITS WE WILL WIN CHAMPIONSHIP NOT NEXT YEAR BUT YEAR AFTER THT BUT NEXT YEAR SWEET16 OR ELITE 8

Indoor66
03-23-2007, 12:54 PM
WOW DO U REMEMBER THE LAST TWO YEAR? ARE RECRUITS LOOKED AND SOUNDED REAL GOOD. bUT THE THING THEY NEEDED WAS A YEAR OR TWO. A PREFECT EXAMPLE IS JON SCHYER. I MEAN HE DIDNT DO **** IN THE TOURNEY OR AT THE END OF THE YEAR BECAUSE HE LOOKED A LITTLE SHELL SHOCKED NOW NEXT YEAR HE WILL MAKE BIGGER STEPS LIKE JJ DID IN HIS YEARS. BECAUSE AT FIRST IF YOU REMEBER JJ NEVER DROVE KIND OF LIKE JON.(JON DOES DRIVE A LITTLE MORE THAN JJ DID AS A FRESH). I THINK WITH THESE RECRUITS WE WILL WIN CHAMPIONSHIP NOT NEXT YEAR BUT YEAR AFTER THT BUT NEXT YEAR SWEET16 OR ELITE 8
Please don't shout.

Troublemaker
03-23-2007, 01:01 PM
I'd start Hurley over Wojo (although I suspect this is your most-dear-to-your-heart team, not necessarily the best players). I would also change the spelling of Shelden in your signature.

feldspar
03-23-2007, 01:07 PM
Don't be silly, feldspar. It doesn't matter what he averages, as long as he leads duke to the final four next year. Anything less, and he, the team, and most prominently, Coach K, will all be major disappointments. How many seasons has it been since we were in the final four? We're owed one.

If Patterson comes too, then we should get a championship.

Amen, brother.

By the way, have you gotten your championship ring from 2001 yet? I figured Duke would have shipped them out by now.

gus
03-23-2007, 01:10 PM
I'd start Hurley over Wojo (although I suspect this is your most-dear-to-your-heart team, not necessarily the best players). I would also change the spelling of Shelden in your signature.

Why?

What does Hurley have over Wojo? I mean, besides better shooting, better handling, better hops, better on the ball defense, better penetration, better court vision, and an inch?

DU Band Prez 88
03-23-2007, 01:11 PM
I loved Wojo and was back at Duke as a grad student when he played for Duke (loved that 97-98 team)...but over Hurley as starting PG for an all-time Duke team - seriously, are you kidding?

feldspar
03-23-2007, 01:22 PM
Why?

What does Hurley have over Wojo? I mean, besides better shooting, better handling, better hops, better on the ball defense, better penetration, better court vision, and an inch?

Fluid bowels?

Patrick Yates
03-23-2007, 03:04 PM
I'm going to hedge like a politician here. I'm very interested in seeing what a summer in Duke's weight training program will do for Brian Zoubek. I'm not even worried about his offense (more on that in a second). As long as he's mobile enough to play Duke defense and can hold his ground on the block, Duke can be very good with Big Z giving them 25 minutes. And considering that most teams don't have lots of talented 6'10" guys waiting on the bench, Lance would be fine defensively in relief of him.

The reason I'm not worried about Zoubek's offense is that I think Kyle Singler is going to be really, really good. All the frustrating things about McRoberts -- finishing around the basket, making real post moves, hitting jumpers -- he can do. He is the perfect prototype for a Duke "4" -- great inside/outside skills. In fact, I think the dirty little secret about Duke's offense this year was that neither the 4 nor the 5 could hit from the outside. I can't think of another team besides ... wait for it ... the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, where Duke was in that situation.

I'm not one for going out on a limb. But last year, at this time, everyone was gaga for Henderson, and I said that Scheyer was going to be the better player. I'd seen enough (and heard more than enough from people who know a lot more than I do) to be convinced of that. It certainly played out that way. So, I'll throw this one out there, since it's the subject of this thread. Comparing anyone to Larry Bird is absurd. Every good white player gets that label. But from what I've seen of Singler, some of the similarities are eerie. The form, the moves, the feel for the game ... Singler is going to be very special, right away. And Duke's offense will improve dramatically as a result.

Patterson would obviously be an important get. However, I don't see him in quite the same light as Brand/Boozer/Williams. He's not the offensive force that Brand and Boozer were right away -- his post moves aren't as polished and he's not as good a shooter. And he's not the shot-blocker Williams was. I don't think he's a legit 6'8," and I don't think he'll ever be as thick as those guys. I look at him more like a better Chuck Hayes, which would still be huge. And he'd definitely give Duke a huge lift. I just don't want anyone to expect him to be a savior -- it's not fair to the kid.


With regards to 94/95, Cherokee was not a great outside shooter, in that he was not prolific, but he was a dangerous shooter in that he could not be left alone. I would argue that our woes that year stemmed from poor perimeter play due to youth, injury, and unrealistic expectations on three McD's AA's (who'da thunk). But the overall point is right on. Our best Duke teams have had posts who could play inside and out. Guys like Shane who were 3's at the next level but who played in the post at Duke, usually paired with a true low post banger. That was lacking this year and the team suffered for it.

Also, I like your post regarding PP. I have nothing against the kid, but I am not sure that he is the panacea to all Duke's woes. I agree with you on his size and skill set. He looks to be a little under 6-8 to me, and he is in fantastic shape. That is a good thing, but he is not going to get any bigger (4-5lbs maybe, but no significant improvement). I know this is a dirty word/phrase here, but his ceiling is relatively low compared to LT and BZ. In 2-3 years our current players could be really good to great, whereas I think PP's best case scenario (which he will probably achieve) is very good to really good. With a good off season in the weight room, LT could be nearly as big as PP next year, with more athleticism. I see PP as being a slightly smaller, less skilled version of Hansborough, with a razor thin margin of error. High moter playing can only take you so far, and he might not be able to bully other bigs in the ACC and beyond like he does in high school.

When I saw PP on TV, I was not blown away, especially considering how much more physically developed he was compared to the opposition. Mayo went nuts in that game, but PP looked a little pedestrian. I have kinda sorta followed PP on SI.com in the top 25 high schools section, and his numbers have been solid, not spectacular.

I am not bad mouthing the kid. I am as certain as I can be that he will be a very good college player for 3-4 years. My fear is that his presence will scare off 2 kids who could be great for 1-2 years and 2-4 years respectively, namely Greg Monroe and Drew Gordon. I think GM is likely to come to Duke given our current post presence, and that DG would come to Duke even with GM here (If K called to offer a scholly the kid might accept on the spot). I think that BZ and LT being strong post players would apeal to GM who is more of an inside out than true post, and that DG would be good his frosh year off the bench and great after that. Both of these players are closer to being Duke posts than PP, who I fear is not as big as he is being listed at. I know a bird (mildy clever allusion) in the hand and all that, but given the choice I would take GM and/or DG over PP.

PP helps us improve slightly, while the other two would be the lynch pins of a class that would be sure to attract a top flight guard who wants to pass to them. They would be the foundations of the next/last Duke dynasty under Coach K (of the many that will follow under his hand selected successor). I know it is a gamble, but I would rather roll the dice for excellance than hope for above average.

Great post Jumbo. You brought out something that I have been hesitant to say regarding PP and his abilities. Your insight tends to be good regarding these high school kids. It is a point that needs considering, because we could be placing too much pressure on a kid who is good, but not great. Much like McBob, all that he can do is disappoint.

Patrick Yates

Jumbo
03-23-2007, 03:47 PM
Jumbo,

I've seen this a few times in your recent posts. A big Barney from "How I Met Your Mother" fan, are you?

Actually, I've never seen the show.

mr. synellinden
03-23-2007, 03:55 PM
While we are on the topic of GM, I love this interview he gave - particularly the first quote. And he describes his game as exactly the type of big that we are saying is the cornerstone of great Duke teams.

http://duke.scout.com/2/548531.html

Hector Vector
03-23-2007, 04:45 PM
That video was amazing. Had some Bird, some Nowitzki and some Adam Morrison with the the herky jerky hair flopping shots from all angles.

I can't wait.

JJweMISSu
03-23-2007, 06:04 PM
my team at the bottom in the signature if who i want and liek other guy said my heart team. i mean wojo played with so much emotion i would love to have him at pg. not saying his better than hurley just saying i want him on there for me.

sorry for who ever said stop shouting. haha my bad i accidentually hit the caps lock key

sorry for mispelling his name didnt no ur guys where so picky haha. anyway im new to this im just trying to join in with this group and alk DUKE becaus ei love um.

JasonEvans
03-23-2007, 06:04 PM
Actually, I've never seen the show.


Duuuuude!! you are really missing something. At the risk of going waaay off topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Sxhc02L8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tHfcxlCDXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81HEQ-wxRQg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs3F3BXZ3q8&NR

--Jason "Neil Patrick Harris is amazing in this show" Evans

mr. synellinden
03-23-2007, 07:07 PM
Agreed - another great episode this week capped off with a very funny Letterman-esque Top 10 List. As I've said before, I don't know why I watch this show every week but I do.

I hope this thread stays on things like Singler and Monroe though. I really believe they can be the cornerstone of NC #4.

cato
03-23-2007, 07:51 PM
With regards to 94/95, Cherokee was not a great outside shooter, in that he was not prolific, but he was a dangerous shooter in that he could not be left alone.

Huh. I could have sworn that Chief just camped out on the perimeter all year and chucked up 3s. Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but I remember being frustrated by his apparent reluctance to mix it up down low. Turns out, he didn't take quite as many 3s as I remembered. He took 85, hitting 36.5%. For comparison, Capel took 137, hitting 46%, that year; Christian took 97, hitting 55.7% in his senior year (sweet); and Battier took 296, hitting 41.9% in his senior year (kick ***!)

Here are the stats:


Player Yr Cl Min MPG FGM FGA FG% 3M 3A 3FG% FTM FTA FT% PPG
------------------ -- -- ---- ---- --- ---- ---- --- --- ---- --- --- ---- ----
Parks, Cherokee 95 Sr 1091 35.2 222 443 .501 31 85 .365 114 147 .776 19.0

Capel, Jeff 95 So 912 29.4 144 323 .446 63 137 .460 36 56 .643 12.5

Laettner, Christian 92 Sr 1128 32.2 254 442 .575 54 97 .557 189 232 .815 21.5

Battier, Shane 01 Sr 1363 34.9 251 533 .471 124 296 .419 152 191 .796 19.9

arnie
03-23-2007, 08:10 PM
I've also watched Thomas and Patterson a great deal and completely disagree with your post (primarily that Patterson's ceiling is not nearly as high as Thomas/Zoubek) I saw a dominant, strong presence in the middle when I watched PP, Thomas showed a great deal of tentativeness and lack of strength all year.

Also, you are assuming that both Thomas and Zoubex will bulk up over the summer and become strong like PP. Let's hope that happens, but I like my chances better with PP. Anyway, a good argument to have and lets hope we get to compare all 3 of them at DuKe next year.

YmoBeThere
03-23-2007, 08:41 PM
Feldspar: While I understand the obvious inclusion of Crawford on your list, I do think that since he transfered he should drop down a notch or two. Now, we obviously need someone to fill the spot...I think T MO is the answer to your back-up post needs. And did you consider Kenny B for one of your backcourt spots? Might need to find a replacement for Burgess using my first rationale, Clay B perhaps or even Burgin might fit the role.

YmoBeThere
03-23-2007, 08:45 PM
That video was amazing. Had some Bird, some Nowitzki and some Adam Morrison with the the herky jerky hair flopping shots from all angles.

I can't wait.

Bird - I may have missed it in my years of watching the NBA, but was Bird ever spotted dunking the ball?
Dirk - Obviously Kyle needs a little facial hair
Morrison - dead on, but see Dirk above but of the 70's era

ricks68
03-23-2007, 08:56 PM
I've been watching videos of Patterson and Singler and also agree that Singler is really, really good. To be fair, comparing him to Bird cannot be determined until he plays at the college level, however. I think that Bird looked very clumsy while playing, while Singler looks smoothe most of the time. The under the basket play, however, looks similar, as they both sometimes fall back the same in an almost clumsy like manner. Bird had this weird clumsy looking shot that just plain went in the basket over and over and over again even with guys in his face. Singler, on the other hand, seems to have a much smoother shot that goes in from all over the court.

Patterson is a fairly big guy that has been fed by Mayo all year. He seems to hang around under the basket and then puts in a geat pass from Mayo. That's the way I've been interpreting it while watching his games. But isn't that what the guy from down the road does all the time, and he's pretty good?

Monroe, I think is the man. Gordon is good, too. I don't think Patterson is going to scare Monroe away. He says that Duke is his dream school, anyway. And if Patterson comes, and pans out, then what does it make a difference if Gordon doesn't come? A bigger question is, just where are these scholarships going to come from?

Oh, I've been on for so many hours that I forgot about the games! Bye.

ricks

dockfan
03-23-2007, 08:59 PM
But will Kyle have to cut his hair? Inquiring minds want to know.

YmoBeThere
03-23-2007, 09:04 PM
i really wish would could avoide these expectations-building comparisons. bird or byrd, leave it be. zoobs was supposed to be the next G-man. LT another Al Thornton. scheyer more complete than JJ...ALREADY.

i can't tell you how disappointed i have been in recent years with hype on this board about incoming freshman being so far out of touch with the reality of their skills.

Could it be because they are witnessed playing against fellow high school players many of whom quite frankly just aren't that good?

YmoBeThere
03-23-2007, 09:14 PM
I'm not one for going out on a limb. But last year, at this time, everyone was gaga for Henderson, and I said that Scheyer was going to be the better player.

Athletic ability always impresses more than "skill". (see Robert Brickey and others.)

mapei
03-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Forget about PP. It is very unlikely, from all I have read, that he's coming to Duke. To plan your expectations next year around him is the very definition of wishful thinking.

Zoubek, to my eyes, just isn't that good. Obviously K knows tons more than I do, so maybe he'll be part of an answer, but I have a hard time seeing him in a motion offense.

Nelson and Paulus will be the same players we had this year, not to say that's all bad, but I wouldn't look for big improvements, either. Josh, our best player, is gone. Scheyer should improve. GH could step up and make a big gain. LT and DMac might improve a little, but probably not enough for them to be more than role players. Marty, even if he stays, still won't play much because K doesn't have confidence in him and there are new players coming in at his position.

The incoming guys do indeed look good, but better than this year's Josh in their first year? That's asking a lot. I have seen nothing to think any of them is anywhere near Josh as a defensive player, and even Singler is going to have freshman bumps in the ACC road.

This year we plummeted to a team ranked, what, around 30 or so, and .500 in conference play? To expect next year to miraculously be top-10, or final 8 or final 4 given these modest and mixed changes is to look into the future with very rose-colored glasses IMO. There's a lot of talk on the board about putting too much in the way of expectations on this team, and I think that's a valid point. I'll be happy if we improve to top-20 next year. Well, maybe not happy, but I'm certainly not expecting more than that.

dahntaysdawg
03-24-2007, 12:43 AM
Forget about PP. It is very unlikely, from all I have read, that he's coming to Duke. To plan your expectations next year around him is the very definition of wishful thinking.

Zoubek, to my eyes, just isn't that good. Obviously K knows tons more than I do, so maybe he'll be part of an answer, but I have a hard time seeing him in a motion offense.

Nelson and Paulus will be the same players we had this year, not to say that's all bad, but I wouldn't look for big improvements, either. Josh, our best player, is gone. Scheyer should improve. GH could step up and make a big gain. LT and DMac might improve a little, but probably not enough for them to be more than role players. Marty, even if he stays, still won't play much because K doesn't have confidence in him and there are new players coming in at his position.

The incoming guys do indeed look good, but better than this year's Josh in their first year? That's asking a lot. I have seen nothing to think any of them is anywhere near Josh as a defensive player, and even Singler is going to have freshman bumps in the ACC road.

This year we plummeted to a team ranked, what, around 30 or so, and .500 in conference play? To expect next year to miraculously be top-10, or final 8 or final 4 given these modest and mixed changes is to look into the future with very rose-colored glasses IMO. There's a lot of talk on the board about putting too much in the way of expectations on this team, and I think that's a valid point. I'll be happy if we improve to top-20 next year. Well, maybe not happy, but I'm certainly not expecting more than that.


man i was having a great time lurking this board and reading this thread, then it ends on THIS...ain't that always the way.

BobbyFan
03-24-2007, 08:54 AM
Why does every white forward that can score - Van Horn, Morrison, Szczerbiak - get compared to Larry Bird? I understand that many of the comments in this thread are being made in jest and that few people here are actually expecting Singler to be Bird, but this phenomenom is just a peeve of mine that understates Bird's game.

Bird was more than a great scorer; in many ways he was the perfect offensive player. He was one of the greatest passers, at any position, of all-time. His feel and understanding of the game were on par with Magic's. And his scoring came at remarkable efficiency numbers. He was also an excellent rebounder for a small forward.

Singler may or may not have some of these qualities. The clip was encouraging, but it is what it is: a highlight reel. Recruiting rankings, while not an exact science, have me much more excited.

_Gary
03-24-2007, 09:34 AM
Gary,

I know you are making a point-- and a fairly legit one-- but the difference in being a Sweet 16 team and a final 8 team is largely just luck of the draw. If you are good enough to be a legit Sweet 16 team, all you need is a good break or two to be a national champ. Yes, I am serious. Similarly, you can be good enough to be a national champ but if you run into some untimely bad luck, you can easily be out in the first or second round.

You may not believe me when I say this, but I swear its the truth. I really struggled in my initial post as whether or not to make that comment about Sweet 16 versus Elite 8 for the very reasons you suggested. And you are definitely correct about the fine line.

My reason was as follows: I didn't want to suggest Duke would be worse than a Sweet 16 type team, even without PP, because I knew that would be ridiculous. At the same time, I didn't want to say the Blue Devils would be a solid Final Four team simply because they added PP, because that might be a tad presumptuous too. So I was stuck trying to be conservative in my comments. Get where I'm coming from? I know good and well the team can be better than Sweet 16 material without PP. And I know they can be better or worse than Elite 8 material with him. The line is very fine whether we add him or not.

I just wanted to get Jumbo's thoughts on where our inside game would be if we did not add Patterson. He seems to think Z is going to be at least better than adequate with just Lance helping him out. If I'm wrong on that let me know, Jumbo. I'm just not quite as high on Z as many of you guys are. I still saw soft hands on defensive rebounds and some slow recovery on the switches. I'm sure he can get better and he will get better. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I felt we needed PP to really have a solid shot at being a legit title contender next year. I think we will be improved regardless. But to be a balanced, solid team all the way around I think we need a player like PP on this team. If he doesn't come I'll still cheer and look for us to win a ton of games. And we will be great on the wings and should be able to run like mad. But when the game bogs down and we get into slugfests (no pun intended, GH) I'd like to see a beefy, solid player like PP in the post for both offensive and defensive purposes.

Then again, perhaps I'm over-hyping what PP can bring to the table.

Gary

whereinthehellami
03-24-2007, 11:36 AM
I think there can be resonable expectations of improvement for next year without getting carried away with title hope aspirations. By returning most of our players (most ACC teams are losing alot more than us) and adding some quality players that will see some significant time we should be able to convert half of our losses from this year into wins next year. That would put us at around 29 wins and 6 loses, sweet sixteen territory. Expectations beyond that aren't realistic given the holes that we will have, namely defense and rebounding.

Count me in as someone who is sceptical of Zoobs making a greater impact next year than he has this year. I like him in spot duty but don't see avergaing over 10 minutes next year. Now if K changes his schemes to Zoobs strengths then that could change (zone defense) but his quickness on man defense will still be exploited over and over again. All the other team has to do is drag his man out from the key, screen for the switch, and then isolate that matchup for an easy hoop/assist (on the give and go).

I'd really like for Thomas to be a suprise for next year, he has some decent height, quickness, and energy. Some things i noticed this year that make me hesitant to predict big strides for him next year are his inconsistantsy (tendancy to dissapear) and his inability to adjust (always seemed to pick up the same cheap fouls).

As for PP, his size is needed and would help. I'm not sure he would unseat Mcclure, though there is minutes for the both of them in our thin frontcourt. In the very limited times I have seen PP play on TV, I was suprised at how difficult it was to identify him on the court through his play. He didn't seem to play that big and dominant for high school games. I could see that transferring over to college and creating a decent adjustment period for him, though that is common for frontcourt players. I don't think having Mayo on his team helped his game at all. He played second fiddle and fed on scraps.

whereinthehellami
03-24-2007, 12:02 PM
I didn't think this belonged in my previous post so sorry about double posting. I also apologize for looking ahead (I know, I know, whats the point) but I can't help myself, its a weakness that I'm not working on and didn't give up for lent.

Anyway I always like looking ahead and dreaming about future teams and the possibility for 2008 gets me really excited. I think if we get Monroe (seems like a good fit) then we got to be a favorite for the title (not that that means anything). Again I'm aware that things will happen and this scenario will be different (the only guarentee) but I'm a dreamer.

Look at this lineup:

Sarters
Paulus 6-2 SR
Scheyer 6-4 JR
Henderson 6-5 JR
Singler 6-8 SO
Monroe 6-9 FR

Reserves
Smith 6-3 SO
Mcclure 6-6 SR
King 6-7 SO
Thomas 6-8 JR
Pocius SR
Zoobs 7-0 JR

This team has all the pieces and the look of a championship quality team. You've got experience, athletiscm, and depth. Paulus would be a seasoned leader and vetern by then and Monroe could be a national freshman of the year. You have guys like Mcclure coming off the bench as a senior and sixth man. Players like Zoobs and King for spot duty and tactical counters. That team seems like it would be alot of fun to watch. PT would be in serious demand if all those players are still at Duke.

Jumbo
03-24-2007, 01:13 PM
I just wanted to get Jumbo's thoughts on where our inside game would be if we did not add Patterson. He seems to think Z is going to be at least better than adequate with just Lance helping him out. If I'm wrong on that let me know, Jumbo.

No, that's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm very much taking a wait-and-see attitude with Zoubek. I know the staff thinks he can contribute; they wouldn't have recruited him otherwise, and they still seem to think highly of him. It's extremely clear to me that his lower body just wasn't strong enough for him to be a real contributor this past season. So, first and foremost, he most get stronger in his legs. At the very least, he needs to be able to hold his position on the block next year. Any improved mobility would be an added boost.
I have no idea what a stronger Zoubek will resemble. Maybe that's purely the difference that will allow him to play 25 minutes per game. He's showed some offensive gifts early in the year, until his lack of leg strength enabled opponents to push him off the block and slowed his moves (resulting in all those travels).
The other concern, obviously, is defense. He needs to prove that he can show-and-recover on screens, and help on drives, at least adequately. On the one hand, I'm not sure how much more agile he can become. But intelligence is key in this regard too. He's no slower than, say, Aaron Gray, and Pitt's defense was still top-notch with Gray in the middle. And someone suggested that teams would just take big men and isolate them on the perimeter against Zoubek. If that happens, Duke will have won, because teams will have moved out of their normal offense. And it's not like Duke won't have other players ready to bring help. So, I'm not nearly as worried abotu Zoubek's ability to guard his own man next year as I am about his ability to play Duke-quality help defense.
Finally, I see nothing wrong with playing Singler and Thomas together for large stretches. Singler is every bit a power forward at the college level, -- particularly in Duke's system. He's stronger than some people realize. And if you look at some of the top teams in the country, or even just the rest of the ACC, they aren't playing guys in the middle much bigger than Lance. Duke's interior D might be weaker, but Lance could certainly hold his own against combos like Costner/McCauley or Mays/Booker if he gets stronger. A lot has to happen, but a lot can happen for guys in their first extended March-October stay in Durham.

gw67
03-24-2007, 01:45 PM
From everything I've read, Singler will be an excellent player at Duke but to compare him to Bird is over the top when considering performance, IMO. Bird averaged 30ppg, 13rpg and about 5apg for his college career and carried an average team to the NCAA finals. If Singler's performance compares with Deng or even Dunleavy, I will be happy. If it compares to Hill, I will be overjoyed and, indeed, the Devils can be expected to be a top rated team.

gw67

throatybeard
03-24-2007, 01:50 PM
Jon Scheyer is gonna be the reincarnation of Pete Maravich before it's over. Write it down. :cool:

Indoor66
03-24-2007, 02:26 PM
Jon Scheyer is gonna be the reincarnation of Pete Maravich before it's over. Write it down. :cool:

With all due respect, did you see Maravich play? The passing, the handle, shooting, speed, confidence? He looked like a Cousey handle and passing with Robertson's shots. Not to say he exceeded either at their special skill, but, imo, he was close to their equal.

Much as I like Scheyer (and I really like him), I can only hope that he can one day be mentioned in the same breath as Pistol Pete. ;)

throatybeard
03-24-2007, 02:32 PM
I was 250% joking.

What I want to know is whether Marty Pocious will be a better bowler than Larry Byrd. He is Balto-Slavic, after all.