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View Full Version : Tubby out at UK; Donovan job status?



NW Indiana Dukie
03-22-2007, 02:27 PM
Dan Patrick just reported Tubby is out and is going to Minnesota.
Interesting choice. I would have thought possibly Michigan with TA out.

Let it start now: who goes to Kentucky? Crean, Donovan, Pitino??

socaldukie
03-22-2007, 02:27 PM
Heard he is calling a presser for 1:00 pst to announce...

Anyone in the south heard anything to confirm?

If true, I like our chances for PP now.

hurleyfor3
03-22-2007, 02:29 PM
Leitao? Actually I'm on the record for thinking choice B

Clipsfan
03-22-2007, 02:30 PM
Dan Patrick just reported Tubby is out and is going to Minnesota.
Interesting choice. I would have thought possibly Michigan with TA out.

Let it start now: who goes to Kentucky? Creen, Donovan, Pitino??

And to tie more threads together, does this take UK out of the running for PP?

juise
03-22-2007, 02:34 PM
And to tie more threads together, does this take UK out of the running for PP?

Oooh, I like that idea.

sbpollo
03-22-2007, 02:35 PM
Local Louisville TV reports he's on plane to Minnesota to announce on 3/23. Hope things are better there than last Ky. associated Clem Haskins.

sbpollo
03-22-2007, 02:38 PM
Calipari or possibly Travis Ford. Should be an interesting shuffle.

JasonEvans
03-22-2007, 02:38 PM
It has to help us with PP--

If Kentucky is still in the running. Some think it is Duke, Florida, and Virginia right now.

Also worth considering, what if Kentucky gets Donovan? How does that affect PP?

-Jason "whew, this one really surprises me-- I mean, Minnesota?!?" Evans

feldspar
03-22-2007, 02:40 PM
Consider this scenario: the Kentucky opening fuels speculation that Billy D. will take over at UK, but Billy D's not going to want to talk about it until his Gators are done in the tourney. This makes the coaching situation at Florida speculative at best, thus making it difficult for Patrick to lean towards UK or Florida, thus pushing Duke to the top of the list.

I couldn't be happier.

Troublemaker
03-22-2007, 02:45 PM
About 6,000 Kentucky fans on the CatsPause message boards celebrating right now...

PPat is on record saying that Tubby leaving would affect his decision. I think this is great news for Duke, but also for Fla and UVA...

Clipsfan
03-22-2007, 02:45 PM
Consider this scenario: the Kentucky opening fuels speculation that Billy D. will take over at UK, but Billy D's not going to want to talk about it until his Gators are done in the tourney. This makes the coaching situation at Florida speculative at best, thus making it difficult for Patrick to lean towards UK or Florida, thus pushing Duke to the top of the list.

I couldn't be happier.

I'd love it if that were the way it played out, rather than PP just waiting another couple weeks to see what happens with the coaching situations. I would really just like to think that he'll come to Duke because it offers a tremendous opportunity for him.

chris13
03-22-2007, 02:46 PM
If this were 1997 or 1987 I would say Kentucky is clearly the better job. But given that Donovan has shown he can go to Final Fours and win a national title at Florida, it is not clear to me what is better about the Kentucky job in 2007.

Florida has less pressure, more overall resources in the athletic department and a much bigger local recruiting base.

I would be shocked if Donovan leaves and think he would be making a mistake.

feldspar
03-22-2007, 02:47 PM
I think this is great news for Duke, but also for Fla and UVA...

I'd love to hear Watzone's thoughts, but like I said if Billy Donovan's name is high on the list for UK, I can see that as being a big negative for Florida. And Josh leaving has to be a huge plus.

Based on absolutely no knowledge at all, and assuming that Billy D is who UK is going to go after, I'd have to say that PP's looking at

1. Duke
2. UVa
3. Florida
4. Kentucky.

But again, that's based on plenty of assumption.

feldspar
03-22-2007, 02:49 PM
If this were 1997 or 1987 I would say Kentucky is clearly the better job. But given that Donovan has shown he can go to Final Fours and win a national title at Florida, it is not clear to me what is better about the Kentucky job in 2007.

I strongly disagree. There are only a handful of programs that can recruit based on name alone. Duke, UNC, UCLA and Kentucky, perhaps UConn as well.

I don't think Florida even remotely belongs in that list.

JasonEvans
03-22-2007, 02:50 PM
Oh, now it is sounding like Tom Crean will be Tubby's replacement-- so ignore that note about Billy Donovan ;)

-Jason "so, who gets the Marquette job?" Evans

feldspar
03-22-2007, 02:53 PM
Oh, now it is sounding like Tom Crean will be Tubby's replacement-- so ignore that note about Billy Donovan ;)

-Jason "so, who gets the Marquette job?" Evans

Where are you seeing this, Jason, cause I've been reading stuff about Crean taking over at Michigan?

VaDukie
03-22-2007, 02:55 PM
Tom Crean for the Kentucky job? You've got to be kidding me.

If Kentucky has any sense they'll go after Billy Gillespie. The way he turned around Texas A & M and UTEP before that makes this guy a miracle worker. Imagine what he could do with the Kentucky name to recruit.

Kentucky fans should be rooting for Memphis tonight so A&M's season can end...

Troublemaker
03-22-2007, 02:55 PM
Deadspin is reporting Crean to UK, for one.

feldspar
03-22-2007, 02:59 PM
Deadspin is reporting Crean to UK, for one.

I dunno. Sounds more like speculation of who's on the top of the list than confirmation that UK has found their guy.

Troublemaker
03-22-2007, 03:03 PM
I dunno. Sounds more like speculation of who's on the top of the list than confirmation that UK has found their guy.

True, definitely not confirmation. To be exact, it says: "Sources are saying that the most likely replacement for Tubby is Marquette coach Tom Crean"

phaedrus
03-22-2007, 03:10 PM
you'd have to be feeling really good about yourself to have the audacity to take this job right now. i'll be very impressed if whoever ends up there doesn't ingloriously leave within 5 years, mike davis-style.

trying to fill the shoes of wooden, rupp, knight, or smith almost never works out well, and that's what every coach at these schools will always be doing. (interestingly, pitino filled rupp's, then thought he could fill auerbach's too and couldn't handle it.)

jkidd31
03-22-2007, 03:11 PM
I think Travis Ford would make UK fans happy. My wife is a UK alum and I know the fan base is ticked that Tubby let many of the top Kentucky players who wanted to go to UK out of state and come back to beat them (ie Chris Lofton) It will be interesting to see who ends up there.

Duvall
03-22-2007, 03:19 PM
True, definitely not confirmation. To be exact, it says: "Sources are saying that the most likely replacement for Tubby is Marquette coach Tom Crean"

Jeez, talk about a downgrade.

feldspar
03-22-2007, 03:23 PM
I think Travis Ford would make UK fans happy. My wife is a UK alum and I know the fan base is ticked that Tubby let many of the top Kentucky players who wanted to go to UK out of state and come back to beat them (ie Chris Lofton) It will be interesting to see who ends up there.

Really? Ford seems to be doing okay at UMass, but nothing to write home about. They tied Xavier for the A-10 title, but the A-10 was atrocious this year.

jkidd31
03-22-2007, 03:28 PM
Really? Ford seems to be doing okay at UMass, but nothing to write home about. They tied Xavier for the A-10 title, but the A-10 was atrocious this year.

Ford played on the '92 team. That team is as if not more revered then the two national championship teams from the '90's. That is part of the reason UK fans hate Duke so much because of how loved that team was.

SlimSlowSlider
03-22-2007, 03:37 PM
UMass was a cesspool before Ford came. He is starting to turn it around. Don't let UMass's record deceive you.

RelativeWays
03-22-2007, 03:41 PM
If I was Donovan, I'd stay put in Florida. He's already won a NC with Florida and he doesn't have to deal with living up to any sort of legacy, he can make his own. UF is becoming is much more attractive to prospective recruits because of its success, school atmosphere and it has a sh!tload of money, way more than Kentucky.

madscavenger
03-22-2007, 03:45 PM
-Jason "so, who gets the Marquette job?" Evans

I've been on record before saying that Wojo would be perfect for the job at Marquette. Marquette attracts the kind of player that fits the Wojo style of play. And the locals will love him(probably have a Polka Party on the announcement).

sbpollo
03-22-2007, 04:21 PM
He is also from Madisonville, Ky. and his wife is from Campbellsville, Ky. Interesting that Vince Taylor just left Louisville- the Lexington, Duke, Pitino connection!

chris13
03-22-2007, 05:05 PM
if the name recruits itself at Kentucky, why does Florida have better players and why is the main criticism of Tubby that he doesn't recruit well.

kramerbr
03-22-2007, 05:22 PM
What about Pitino, Callapari, or Barnes....?

If Roy Williams could leave a great Kansas program...these coaches could surely be enticed to UK.

Mal
03-22-2007, 05:32 PM
I know this is a Duke board and all, and Minnesota's just my hometown team and not my alma mater, but can we talk about the fact that freaking Minnesota just hired Tubby freaking Smith, and what a huge coup that is?

Sure, he didn't turn out to be the right guy to follow Pitino and didn't use the platform of the Kentucky program as well as one might have expected. But the guy's a winner and a class act all the way. He took Tulsa to two Sweet 16s, won a national championship (albeit with Pitino's guys), went to 4 Regional Finals, and won 5 SEC championships. The guy can coach. Even if he didn't get Kentucky back to the promised land, any Gopher fan would give their left one to have that kind of success at the U of M. Given (a) the total dump Dan Monson put the play of the Gopher program in (and comparatively, I take it easy on him, given the ethical sewer he was left by Clem Haskins, and the respectability he restored off the court), (b) the fact that Iowa and Michigan are also looking for coaches, (c) the total lack of confidence anyone's had in Joel Maturi, the U of M AD, in the last couple years, and (d) the program's reputation as a middle of the pack or worse Big Ten team with a long history of ethical lapses, this is a remarkable, remarkable hire. HUGE for Minnesota. I had been pushing for an up and coming, high energy mid-major or first time head coach, mainly because I assumed that to even discuss someone like Tubby Smith was ridiculous.

I'm in shock. I'm salivating. My father is ecstatic.

Also, just for one day, I will entertain the fantasy that the real reason Patterson hasn't decided yet is he's just a huge Tubby guy and wanted to know his situation was secure somewhere, and now he'll be choosing between Duke and Minnesota. A guy can pipe dream, right? Don't bother telling me how ridiculous this is; I know.

Back to reality, though, this is massive on the recruiting front for Minnesota. During the Monson years, there's been an ever-growing pipeline of top in-state talent to Madison. That pipeline got plugged two hours ago. So this hire not only hurts Iowa and Michigan, but Wisconsin, the Gophers' biggest rival, too. Probably hurts Illinois as well, as I have little doubt Tubby will soon be making some appearances in the Chicago area.

As for the UK next coach speculation, I know a couple of Marquette alums who appreciate the recent Final Four run, but attribute it solely to D. Wade, and would frankly not be crushed to see Tom Crean go. They're convinced he's a poor game coach. Even without that input, I think he'd be a terrible choice for Kentucky. I think Donovan would be crazy to leave the system he's got at Florida right now, too. I'm not sure what the answer is. Jay Wright? ESPN's first article up on the story tossed out the names of Few and (whoah!) Brey. I concur with others that Gillespie could be an inspired choice.

Marquette would probably look at Altman and Lowery. Maybe Tony Bennett, given his connection to the state. I think they'd be directly competing with Iowa on some of those, so Iowa could get the double whammy from Tubby's hire.

RockyMtDevil
03-22-2007, 05:32 PM
Crean, Few and Brey are the top three, with Izzo has a longshot...

dukemsu
03-22-2007, 07:03 PM
Due to the nature of the job, there are really (excluding age issues, such as Knight, Olson, and Calhoun) only four top-level coaches you could safely say are NOT candidates for UK.

K
Roy
Howland (the UCLA job is certainly top 4 in the country)
Self

Everyone else is a candidate. I think Crean is a bit of a reach, much as I like the guy. Izzo, hmmm....a little too old and old school, I think. Izzo's a lot like Tubby in terms of style and approach. I wouldn't be shocked if Izzo got it, though. I think UK will want someone flashier to combat Donovan. Unless, of course, they hire Donovan himself. Doubt that. It will be interesting to see how the Gators handle that enormous distraction. Given that and the quality opposition they will likely face if they reach Atlanta, if the Gators win out, it will be one impressive feat.

Don't count out Pitino, either. Belein maybe. But we could speculate all night.

dukemsu

dukie8
03-22-2007, 07:14 PM
I know this is a Duke board and all, and Minnesota's just my hometown team and not my alma mater, but can we talk about the fact that freaking Minnesota just hired Tubby freaking Smith, and what a huge coup that is?

Sure, he didn't turn out to be the right guy to follow Pitino and didn't use the platform of the Kentucky program as well as one might have expected. But the guy's a winner and a class act all the way. He took Tulsa to two Sweet 16s, won a national championship (albeit with Pitino's guys), went to 4 Regional Finals, and won 5 SEC championships. The guy can coach. Even if he didn't get Kentucky back to the promised land, any Gopher fan would give their left one to have that kind of success at the U of M. Given (a) the total dump Dan Monson put the play of the Gopher program in (and comparatively, I take it easy on him, given the ethical sewer he was left by Clem Haskins, and the respectability he restored off the court), (b) the fact that Iowa and Michigan are also looking for coaches, (c) the total lack of confidence anyone's had in Joel Maturi, the U of M AD, in the last couple years, and (d) the program's reputation as a middle of the pack or worse Big Ten team with a long history of ethical lapses, this is a remarkable, remarkable hire. HUGE for Minnesota. I had been pushing for an up and coming, high energy mid-major or first time head coach, mainly because I assumed that to even discuss someone like Tubby Smith was ridiculous.

I'm in shock. I'm salivating. My father is ecstatic.

Also, just for one day, I will entertain the fantasy that the real reason Patterson hasn't decided yet is he's just a huge Tubby guy and wanted to know his situation was secure somewhere, and now he'll be choosing between Duke and Minnesota. A guy can pipe dream, right? Don't bother telling me how ridiculous this is; I know.

Back to reality, though, this is massive on the recruiting front for Minnesota. During the Monson years, there's been an ever-growing pipeline of top in-state talent to Madison. That pipeline got plugged two hours ago. So this hire not only hurts Iowa and Michigan, but Wisconsin, the Gophers' biggest rival, too. Probably hurts Illinois as well, as I have little doubt Tubby will soon be making some appearances in the Chicago area.

As for the UK next coach speculation, I know a couple of Marquette alums who appreciate the recent Final Four run, but attribute it solely to D. Wade, and would frankly not be crushed to see Tom Crean go. They're convinced he's a poor game coach. Even without that input, I think he'd be a terrible choice for Kentucky. I think Donovan would be crazy to leave the system he's got at Florida right now, too. I'm not sure what the answer is. Jay Wright? ESPN's first article up on the story tossed out the names of Few and (whoah!) Brey. I concur with others that Gillespie could be an inspired choice.

Marquette would probably look at Altman and Lowery. Maybe Tony Bennett, given his connection to the state. I think they'd be directly competing with Iowa on some of those, so Iowa could get the double whammy from Tubby's hire.

he is a class act but he sure couldn't win at uk. his nc was of the same ilk as maybe fischer's at michigan or switzer's sb at dallas. he was the HIGHEST paid coach in college basketball so zero final 4s in 9 years and 9-7 this year in a very weak sec when on the hot seat doesn't cut it. it's kind of hard to feel sorry for him when he negotiated such an obscene contract. uk doesn't pay that kind of coin for so little top end success.

grossbus
03-22-2007, 09:52 PM
did you know crean has a higher salary than K?

Mal
03-22-2007, 10:28 PM
dukie8 -

I'm not throwing a pity party for Tubby. I think I noted the fact that he didn't have as much success as some might have hoped at Kentucky, and clearly the last two or three years have been rough. Nonetheless, my point was not that he got hosed in Lexington. My point was he's a caliber of name that I'm shocked Minnesota was able to get, and he immediately makes a huge splash in the Big Ten and instantly gives the Gophers a level of legitimacy they haven't had in forever.

Also, as I noted, the guy won the SEC half the years he was there, and the SEC tournament I think 5 times, as well. His winning percentage at UK was north of .750. So, overall, I couldn't disagree more with "he sure couldn't win there." He couldn't consistently make the Final Four there, but otherwise I think you're stretching it. Also, I'm not sure if you're watching the TN/OSU game right now, but I also don't think the SEC looks too "weak" this year right at the moment, especially in the East, where Kentucky was up against three Sweet 16 teams, one of whom is absolutely destroying Ohio State at the moment. Again, I don't want to overstate - I understand why the seat was hot and apparently became unbearably so. Nonetheless, it's not like Tubby's just forgotten how to coach. He's the same guy who took Tulsa to two Sweet 16s (if I recall, he was the guy who built Tulsa into the revolving door of coaches/Gonzaga of the mid-90's).

Finally, Steve Fisher subbed in and rode Glen Rice and Rumeal Robinson for 6 games to collect a national championship at Michigan, with a team that had been coached all season by Bill Freider. Tubby took over at the beginning of the 1998 season and coached the national champion from start to finish, undoubtedly making his own imprint on the team (you may recall, they played "Tubby Ball" which was a different thing than Pitino's game). That team had some fine players in Padgett and Wayne Turner, but no one in the Glen Robinson class. Tubby probably outcoached Krzyzewski in the Regional Final, and outdid Majerus in the championship game by shutting down Mottola. To call the two accomplishments analogous is nonsensical.

dukie8
03-22-2007, 10:46 PM
dukie8 -

I'm not throwing a pity party for Tubby. I think I noted the fact that he didn't have as much success as some might have hoped at Kentucky, and clearly the last two or three years have been rough. Nonetheless, my point was not that he got hosed in Lexington. My point was he's a caliber of name that I'm shocked Minnesota was able to get, and he immediately makes a huge splash in the Big Ten and instantly gives the Gophers a level of legitimacy they haven't had in forever.

Also, as I noted, the guy won the SEC half the years he was there, and the SEC tournament I think 5 times, as well. His winning percentage at UK was north of .750. So, overall, I couldn't disagree more with "he sure couldn't win there." He couldn't consistently make the Final Four there, but otherwise I think you're stretching it. Also, I'm not sure if you're watching the TN/OSU game right now, but I also don't think the SEC looks too "weak" this year right at the moment, especially in the East, where Kentucky was up against three Sweet 16 teams, one of whom is absolutely destroying Ohio State at the moment. Again, I don't want to overstate - I understand why the seat was hot and apparently became unbearably so. Nonetheless, it's not like Tubby's just forgotten how to coach. He's the same guy who took Tulsa to two Sweet 16s (if I recall, he was the guy who built Tulsa into the revolving door of coaches/Gonzaga of the mid-90's).

Finally, Steve Fisher subbed in and rode Glen Rice and Rumeal Robinson for 6 games to collect a national championship at Michigan, with a team that had been coached all season by Bill Freider. Tubby took over at the beginning of the 1998 season and coached the national champion from start to finish, undoubtedly making his own imprint on the team (you may recall, they played "Tubby Ball" which was a different thing than Pitino's game). That team had some fine players in Padgett and Wayne Turner, but no one in the Glen Robinson class. Tubby probably outcoached Krzyzewski in the Regional Final, and outdid Majerus in the championship game by shutting down Mottola. To call the two accomplishments analogous is nonsensical.

our dear friend mr doyel has a piece up that pretty much sums up how i feel:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10080776

i completely agree with his point that if tubby couldn't recruit at kentucky, he sure as hell won't be able to recruit at minnesota. comparing tubby's nc to fischer's isn't nonsensical -- both won them entirely with other someone else's players. it's the same way gut got to the final 4 and it's the same way switzer won a super bowl. doyel makes the very valid point that in the last 2 years with entirely his own players tubby lost 25 games. for the highest paid coach in the land, that is completely unacceptable.

dukemsu
03-22-2007, 10:52 PM
I also don't think the Fisher=Tubby analogy works. Fisher had been with that team all that season and had recruited many of those players as a longtime assistant (came in 1982 to Ann Arbor). Tubby came into a completely different situation-he had no hand in recruiting ANY of the players who won the national title at UK in 1998.

Either way, I do think Tubby underachieved somewhat, but considering the Godlike status enjoyed by Pitino, I think pretty much anyone would have had a really difficult time in the post-honeymoon period. For whatever reason, he had a really hard time getting the blue-chip recruits.

dukemsu

throatybeard
03-22-2007, 10:53 PM
did you know crean has a higher salary than K?

Base, I assume?

feldspar
03-22-2007, 10:56 PM
Base, I assume?

Perhaps K allows his base to be lower since he gets so much in endorsements?

SoCalDukeFan
03-23-2007, 12:18 AM
If he is offered the KY job, then he can take it and be THE MAN.

If is stays at Florida he will remain number 2 to football coach.


SoCal

jsvice
03-23-2007, 02:37 AM
If this were 1997 or 1987 I would say Kentucky is clearly the better job. But given that Donovan has shown he can go to Final Fours and win a national title at Florida, it is not clear to me what is better about the Kentucky job in 2007.

Florida has less pressure, more overall resources in the athletic department and a much bigger local recruiting base.

I would be shocked if Donovan leaves and think he would be making a mistake.

Bigger local base, yes. More resources? Maybe for football. Tubby was the highest paid coach in the nation. UK just built a $30M practice facility for b-ball. A practice facility!! There's a ton of D-I schools that don't even have arenas that cost that kind of money. They play in Rupp Arena which averages about 23,000 people per game. What do they get at Florida? 13,000 on a great night?
The only reason for anyone to turn down the UK job is if they are at an incredible program like Duke or UNC already. Well... that and the pressure.

-John

gus
03-23-2007, 03:46 AM
If he is offered the KY job, then he can take it and be THE MAN.


Why are we still talking endorsements? Anyway, I think that deal would be better for someone like Gary, who's always talking getting screwed.

KyDevilinIL
03-23-2007, 07:43 AM
...the possibility that UK could be totally screwed now.

UK's fanbase has become a flaming cesspool. When the coach at UK volunteers to go to Minnesota, something ain't right. Considering the state of college baskteball today -- when tradition doesn't seem to mean quite as much as it did just a few years ago -- coaches can make a lot of money and go to FFs at a lot of places.

I just wonder who's going to want to step into that hideous situation. Anyone who thinks UK fans are going to give the new coach a pass because he's new is an idiot, no matter how much goodwill some UK fans claim to feel now that Tubby's gone. Someone will take the job. I don't know if it'll be the big name they are clamoring for, and I don't know that it'll necessarily be an improvement. And remember Barnhart's track record isn't so great.

Seriously, I'm not a huge Tubby guy, but this has the potential to set UK back a lot of years. Not that I'll shed a tear over that...

feldspar
03-23-2007, 08:10 AM
Is it just me, or was Tubby's departure before the decision of Patrick Patterson pretty much an "eff you" to UK and all his detractors?

throatybeard
03-23-2007, 08:10 AM
This is why there'll be serious pressure on their AD to take an alumnus. NCSU has a notoriously irrational fanbase, but Lowe will get more leeway (i.e., years before serious moaning and whining) that a non-alumnus would. Had Chuck Amato gone to UVA for undergrad, he'd have lasted two years fewer.

chris13
03-23-2007, 08:20 AM
Throaty:

And if Philip Rivers had gone to UVA for undergrad, Chuck would have lasted two fewer years than that.

I'm trying to picture Chuck reclining on the Lawn reading a biography of Jefferson.

Susan
03-23-2007, 08:53 AM
Thank you for bringing joy to my morning! The picture of Amato on The Lawn at UVA made me laugh out loud!

I think a lot of UK fans would like Ford or Pelphrey (IF they can't get Donovan--I would still be surprised if he left Florida) but there is always the Matt Doherty factor to consider... both of those guys are so young and relatively unproven. This hiring process will be interesting to watch. Will we be able to print new "I SAID NO" t-shirts? :-)

throatybeard
03-23-2007, 09:13 AM
Throaty:

And if Philip Rivers had gone to UVA for undergrad, Chuck would have lasted two fewer years than that.

I'm trying to picture Chuck reclining on the Lawn reading a biography of Jefferson.

Next to that statue of Taymon Domzalski.

What if Rivers had gone to Bama. Hmmm.

phaedrus
03-23-2007, 10:55 AM
This is why there'll be serious pressure on their AD to take an alumnus.

so who you thinking? antoine walker? ron mercer? jamal mashburn?

Susan
03-23-2007, 11:04 AM
Travis Ford or John Pelphrey

Duvall
03-23-2007, 11:05 AM
so who you thinking? antoine walker? ron mercer? jamal mashburn?

The wispy mustache of Gimel Martinez?

Mal
03-23-2007, 11:25 AM
dukie8, thanks for the discussion. I completely disagree on the Fisher analogy, again. As dukemsu mentioned, in 1998 Tubby came to Kentucky and didn't even know the players on his team. He installed a totally different system and won a championship. A lot of people (not ascribing this to you) seem to think all it takes to win a title is to have Rick Pitino put together some players and then you roll the ball out on the floor. If Coach K had retired in 2002, and we hired a complete outsider with no familiarity who won it all in 2003, would we give zero credit to him? Also, again, Fisher coached all of 6 games. 6 games. With Glen Robinson and a bunch of other kids he had known for 4 years. Beating a wonderfully coached but very overmatched Seton Hall in the championship game, and a conference rival in the semis. Very different.

Wow, Doyel, bitter much? He writes like Smith owed him something. I've stated before that I don't think Smith did all that could have been done at Kentucky. Think of the other top programs out there, too - it's hard to keep it going at one of the Big Six. Carolina went through a much worse period after Dean left than Kentucky has the last couple years. Indiana was getting worse and worse with Mike Davis and may never get back in the elite echelon for good. Even UCLA had some very lean years both before and after '95. Kansas hasn't won a title in 20 years.

On the recruiting front, Doyel misses a couple things. For one, Smith still managed to get Bogans, Rondo, Mohammed, Randolph, Magliorre, Prince and probably some other blue chippers I'm not thinking of to UK all on his own. I could be wrong on some of those, I don't feel like checking. They've had trouble with guys leaving, for sure, and he hasn't been able to get three guys in one year. No doubt. But it's not as bad as it could have been. Second, not to inflate it as some top rate program, but Minnesota regularly (until the last two seasons of total meltdown with Monson) fills its 15,000 seat arena for every game. The alumni, even in The State of Hockey, are cuckoo for their Gopher basketball and support the heck out of it when things are even decent. It's vastly more popular than the T-Wolves. It's the only program in the state, and until the last five years had incredible sway over in-state talent (witness the recruitment of Rickert and Humphries), who want first and foremost to play at the Barn. Monson, however, somehow spoiled that connection, starting with losing Kammron Taylor and others to Wisconsin. This year, of the top 5 prospects in the state (and they're legit prospects - not everyone plays hockey in Kevin McHale's home state), 2 are Wisconsin bound, 1's on his way to Marquette, and McD's AA Cole Aldrich, this year's Rickert, is going to Kansas. Only 1 guy's staying home. When interviewed yesterday, one of the top '08 prospects, who's been put in the "presumed to Wisconsin" bin, apparently got wide-eyed and said "Really? Tubby Smith?" and expressed that he hopes the University keeps the recruiting lines open. Bo Ryan is seething over this move.

All Smith will need to do to put Minnesota back in the top half of the very weak Big Ten is keep the in-state talent, which is more significant than many people think, and sprinkle in one other top 50-75 guy every year. That's it. His name alone will do that. Get one more top 50-75 guy from outside seasonally, or find the occasional top 30 guy, and they're in the top third of the conference and an NCAA fixture. Bank on it. I would love to wager with Doyel. Minnesota gave Monson 8 years to tank the program; they're incredibly forgiving and used to mediocrity or worse in the basketball program, yet still somehow very loyal. If Smith simply makes a Sweet 16 in his first 5 seasons, he'll have statues in downtown St. Paul. Sure, it's possible he's burned out and won't improve anything, but it's more likely, given his history, that Minnesota's in for a vast upgrade. For Doyel to so boldly predict a crash and burn is his typical extremism so he can gloat about it later in the event he's right. I will save the link to his article today and gladly send it to him in 2012 when the Governor of Minnesota authorizes the statewide observance of Tubby Smith Day.

Stop bringing clouds to this rare sunny day for a Gopher hoops follower! They're too busy thinking about the prospects of Izzo to Kentucky.

Susan
03-23-2007, 11:45 AM
Magloire and Mohammed were definitely Pitino recruits.

That said, I am happy for Tubby, and happy for Minnesota. An article by Gregg Doyel is not even worth reading, in my opinion. Even if he makes some good points, they're always made in such an arrogant obnoxious way. IMO, the way he just kept harping on how Tubby is going to fail at Minnesota is written solely to provoke. (I read this article on Tubby simply because my brother-in-law, who went to UK, sent it to me. I rarely read Doyel articles anymore.)

jsvice
03-23-2007, 01:31 PM
I'm a UK fan, and I sincerely hope we don't bow to sentimentality and hire Ford or Pelphrey. They would be probably the least qualified candidates imaginable.

-John

chris13
03-23-2007, 02:31 PM
Throaty:

It took me a while to get the Taymon Domzalski reference.

I heard Pete Gillen doing radio color commentary last night on one of the NCAA games.

Why is your avatar the St. Louis Arch?

Are you a Cardinal fan? Then we'd have a team in common. Not that I have anything against Mississippi State.

throatybeard
03-23-2007, 03:21 PM
I heard Pete Gillen doing radio color commentary last night on one of the NCAA games.

He's been doing quite a few, especially Mountain West, on Fox Sports.


Why is your avatar the St. Louis Arch?

Because I'm moving to StL in academic 2007-08. (UM-Saint Louis).


Are you a Cardinal fan?

Like most baseball fans from the rural southeast, I'm a Braves fan, but I've always respected/never disliked the Cardinals and I think I can easily adopt them as #2. (In the other league, I like Oakland and Toronto). I've bought me a Cardinals hat I like. They actually have a surprisingly large fanbase down here in MS, or maybe not surprising, given the extent of their radio network, the lack of an MLB team in NOLA or MEM, and the relative newness of the Braves down here (1966-).

You know what I like about the Cardinals? Because of the baseballyness of the town, the logo seems to transcend the sport and stand for the entire city in a way few other sports American sports logos do. I can only come up with a few:

*The "flying WV", the red Nebraska N, and the Wyoming bucking cowboy. All of these are small-population states with, historically, one I-A football program.

*Maybe the Red Sox's B? Maybe.

Some that have huge recognizability, but fail for me:

* The NYY logo (because of the Mets, and all the other pro teams in NY)
* The Cubs' C (because of the Bears' C and the White Sox).
* The interlocking NC (because of State and Duke)
* The Green Bay G (because GB is small and the team is regional/national in its following)
* The Saints' fleur-de-lis, because of the ubiquity of the symbol in French diasporic culture.
* The Reds' C (because it's the same C as the Chicago Bears)

When you see a Cardinals hat, you think "Saint Louis" in a way you don't think "Washington, DC" when you see a Redskins logo. (Rather, you think "Redskins"). Or really any of the non-linguistic sports logos. And for some reason, the Giants' SF, the Phillies and Pirates' Ps, and some others don't seem to do the same thing in my brain.

mgtr
03-23-2007, 09:01 PM
I may be missing something, but I cannot see Donavan leaving Florida for Kentucky. The logical choice for UK is Pitino, but there may be a lot of essentially political problems there -- wonder what the fan base thinks of Pitino??? Love/hate relationship?

jsvice
03-24-2007, 04:12 AM
I may be missing something, but I cannot see Donavan leaving Florida for Kentucky. The logical choice for UK is Pitino, but there may be a lot of essentially political problems there -- wonder what the fan base thinks of Pitino??? Love/hate relationship?
I think the fan base is pretty divided over Rick Pitino. It's safe to say that a majority of the fans would take him back, but he's an unlikely choice. The vast majority are wanting Billy D., but that seems extremely unlikely. I'd expect UK to end up with a Gilispie or Calipari, but in actuality, I'm guessing wildly just like everyone else. Forde and Dickie V. included.

YmoBeThere
03-24-2007, 07:34 AM
I'm guessing wildly just like everyone else.

Isn't that half the fun?

throatybeard
03-24-2007, 09:34 AM
Is there any traction to the Calipari-to-UK rumors?

kydevil
03-27-2007, 08:17 AM
Since living right outside of Lexington can't quit hearing about Donovan coming to Uk? what have you all heard?
I've also heard that if Donovan comes Lucas and PP will come along with him :(

mcdukie
03-27-2007, 08:20 AM
People who think that Donovan is not seriously thinking about the UK job are crazy. I have heard that PP is waiting on Donovan to make a decision. No matter what, I have said it before that I don't think PP is Duke bound.

kydevil
03-27-2007, 08:27 AM
Is there any traction to the Calipari-to-UK rumors?

Doubt it since Calipari just signed an extension. I think that was maybe a hint that he wasnt interested.

hurleyfor3
03-27-2007, 08:39 AM
I've been hearing about Donovan to Ky for YEARS. This is like Roy to unc was. Ky fans think it's their birthright, no reason to act surprised here.

A-Tex Devil
03-27-2007, 09:02 AM
Well if the rumors are true from the DBR linked article on CatsPause, I think BD may be playing for a higher salary at Florida, and if that doesn't come, then jump to UK, which is dumb IMHO. In any case, wait until after the final four before even speaking to UK so it's less of a distraction than it already will be.

Why go to UK? Tradition? What does that mean anymore? While NC State may have lucked into Sidney Lowe if he continues to coach like he did the back half of this year, you can see what relying on your tradition can get you -- a circus of a coaching search, and a short leash when that coach falters.

UK's a bit better of a job, obviously, but if Billy D leaves, he'll be vilified in Gainesville. Facilities aside, how is this not a lateral move for him? Barring a cheating scandal, he's set for life in Gainesville. If he doesn't make final fours at Kentucky, he'll be gone in 5 years. Unless UK was his dream job (don't buy it from a Providence man) or the money is substantially different (seems like UF could step up there), it doesn't make sense to me why he'd leave.

I think Calipari is a viable candidate, even with his extension. He's mired in C-USA unless the big east wants to pick up one more team. UK has the money to buy his contract out. Gillespie may be hot as well. Rumors here have Arkansas looking at him, too. He'll have a decision to make as to whether he thinks he can establish anything permanent on the farm in college station.

If one of those three don't come in, I could definitely see it being someone like Pelphrey, whose done a good job by all accounts. Should be intereting regardless.

feldspar
03-27-2007, 09:09 AM
Facilities aside, how is this not a lateral move for him? Barring a cheating scandal, he's set for life in Gainesville.

Staying in Gainesville is boring for a coach like Donovan. He's in it for the challenge and the prestige and the rings. He's already accomplished that at Florida. I mean, what else does he have left to do at Florida? He's already brought in blue chip recruits. He's already won conference championships. He's already won a national championship. He's already put Florida on the college basketball map and out from the shadow of the football program.

Billy D's done all he can do at Florida besides win back-to-back NC's. And, he has the chance to do that this year - and trust me, if he doesn't do it this year, it ain't happenin'.

Billy wants a new challenge, a new mountain to climb and conquer. That's the way a lot of these coaches are. Grass is always greener and such. It whast keeps 'em going.


If he doesn't make final fours at Kentucky, he'll be gone in 5 years.

Yeah, but I truly believe that a coach like Donovan doesn't think like this. He doesn't go into something thinking "Well, gosh. What if I don't win at Kentucky?? What ever will I do?"

Naw, he goes into it thinking "Kentucky is a top 4 program of all time. And I have the chance to be a part of that and become one of the greatest college coaches ever. I'm taking it."

That's the way these guys are wired.

kexman
03-27-2007, 09:44 AM
I would think that as a coach you would want a legacy...duke is coach K for the most part. Regardless of how many rings Roy Williams wins at UNC it will always be Dean Smith's program. The best Donovon can hope to be at Kentucky is part of the program. At florida it can be his legacy.

I feel bad about coaching changes being brought up during the tournament and being a distraction (see Duke and Coach G). However, I hope it disrupts florida and they lose....I think Jason Evans should have CNN reporters asking every florida player about donovan going to kentucky. Run the speculation continuosly on CNN. Get Nancy Grace to cover it!!!

feldspar
03-27-2007, 09:46 AM
I would think that as a coach you would want a legacy...duke is coach K for the most part. Regardless of how many rings Roy Williams wins at UNC it will always be Dean Smith's program. The best Donovon can hope to be at Kentucky is part of the program. At florida it can be his legacy.

Why in the world can't Billy D create a "legacy" in Kentucky? He could be the savior of the program - as laughable as that concept is - post-Tubby. He could win more national championships than Pitino did. And a legacy at Kentucky is much more meaningful than a legacy at Flawda, which will always be a football school.

A-Tex Devil
03-27-2007, 09:48 AM
Naw, he goes into it thinking "Kentucky is a top 4 program of all time. And I have the chance to be a part of that and become one of the greatest college coaches ever. I'm taking it."

That's the way these guys are wired.

I buy that. There's also the thought of making Florida the Duke of the late 1990s/early 2000s. I mean both are lofty goals, and I guess may rank differently with different people.

I know he was older when he took the job, but when Calhoun (who I despise, but has been known to be a good coach) took the job at UCONN, that program was trash, and he built it up to the point where he's the face of the program. Was he ever given the opportunity to jump ship to a bigger program? I don't know. But my point is that's a different kind of legacy than taking a UK or a UNC or a KU to new glory.

It'll be interesting. If he loses this weekend, I think it may be more likely that he leaves. It just seems to me that, if he has any loyalty to Florida (and he's been there longer than he was at Kentucky now, I think), wouldn't the greater, or equally great, challenge be to establish a decade or two of dominance to the point where a new generation equates SEC basketball with Florida and not Kentucky? He's young enough to do it.

Of course, with all of his juniors leaving and Patterson likely to follow him if he jumps ship, this would be the year to leave, national championship or not. How very Roy Williams-y of him.

feldspar
03-27-2007, 09:56 AM
wouldn't the greater, or equally great, challenge be to establish a decade or two of dominance to the point where a new generation equates SEC basketball with Florida and not Kentucky? He's young enough to do it.

Problem is, I think it would take a lot longer than a decade or two to make that paradigm shift. It's not just about a "new generation" of basketball fan. Basketball history is passed down from generation to generation. The Z generation is still going to recognize that Kentucky has a greater and longer, and more prestigous basketball history than Florida.

I don't see Florida passing Kentucky as far as basketball prestige unless they win at least 5 or 6 more NC's in the next 15 years. And I just don't see that happening.

EagleDevil
03-27-2007, 12:12 PM
Donovan to UK makes no sense to me. Florida has lots of money to pay him, and a plenty big stage.

The only thing I can think of that would cause him to leave is sheer ego -- too much focus on football at UF, more emphasis on basketball at UK. That would, in my opinion, be really dumb, because if he had about two down years at UK, he could find himself doing color commentary. Or worse, coaching in Minnesota. Brrr.

Chris

feldspar
03-27-2007, 12:15 PM
Donovan to UK makes no sense to me. Florida has lots of money to pay him, and a plenty big stage.

The only thing I can think of that would cause him to leave is sheer ego -- too much focus on football at UF, more emphasis on basketball at UK. That would, in my opinion, be really dumb, because if he had about two down years at UK, he could find himself doing color commentary. Or worse, coaching in Minnesota. Brrr.

Chris

I think you're discounting the BMOC factor.

As long as Florida football wins championships at the same pace as Florida basketball, the basketball coach will never be the BMOC.

The basketball coach at UK will ALWAYS be the BMOC.

EagleDevil
03-27-2007, 12:19 PM
I think you're discounting the BMOC factor.

Naw -- that's exactly what I meant by "sheer ego."

Chris

feldspar
03-27-2007, 12:28 PM
Naw -- that's exactly what I meant by "sheer ego."

Chris

Would have helped if I had read your whole post and not the first line, eh?

:o

EagleDevil
03-27-2007, 12:36 PM
Would have helped if I had read your whole post and not the first line, eh?

:o

Hard to blame you. There are so many posts on this new board, one feels like one doesn't have nearly enough time to read them. ;)

The new board software works well. Nonetheless, I feel like someone turned my neighborhood bar into a Cheesecake Factory. :eek:

Chris

throatybeard
03-27-2007, 01:26 PM
The new board software works well. Nonetheless, I feel like someone turned my neighborhood bar into a Cheesecake Factory. :eek:

LOL. Or a PF Chang's.

We're trying, at least, to merge duplicate threads on the same topic before the duplicate reaches more than a few posts. This consolidates the experience if one is just dropping in instead of reading 24/7.

kramerbr
03-27-2007, 05:10 PM
I heard reports of Billy the Kid possibly going to the Miami Heat. Pat Riley will be retiring from coaching because of health reasons and and will still remain in the front office. Billy has now been to three final fours in 7 years and could possibly win two national championships. This could leave a young coach with very little left to prove at the college level. However, the last college coach to go from college to NBA and win a championship was Chuck Daley and he was even an assistant for a few years.

What are the chances of this happening?

throatybeard
03-27-2007, 06:31 PM
Let's use this thread for discussion of the Kentucky job and of other Billy Donovan job market action.

kydevil
03-27-2007, 10:32 PM
I have heard that UK has been talkin to Travis Ford from Umass, a Kentucky boy. I say if Donovan doesnt work out they most likely bring in Ford?

Uncle Drew
03-28-2007, 01:56 AM
Any chance of Matt Doherty getting the job, to get revenge on his alma matter for giving him the axe? LMFAO Actually he'll probably take Billy's job when he moves to KY.

NYC Duke Fan
03-28-2007, 05:55 AM
Although the timing of the rumor is poor, in my opinion Donovan to Kentucky makes an awful lot of sense. No matter what Donovan does this year, even if he wins another basketball championship, football will always be THE SPORT in Gainsville and Urban Meyer will always be THE MAN in Florida athletics.

Kentucky will always be a basketball school and Donovan has shown that he is an elite basketball recruiter and coach, ( might just be the best in college basketball today), and he would be THE MAN at Kentucky.

dukeimac
03-28-2007, 12:39 PM
Anyone hear about a rumor that the Heat are interested in offering Billy the head coaching job next year?

Clipsfan
03-28-2007, 12:42 PM
I haven't heard anything about it, but I want to say that all these rumors about billy leaving have to help UCLA out this Saturday. However, given that all the players are planning on leaving as well, I'm guessing that it won't affect them.

throatybeard
03-30-2007, 09:00 PM
$1M raise seems like a lot of money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2819224

Chicago 1995
03-30-2007, 09:57 PM
$1M raise seems like a lot of money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2819224

But it's not the $5M/yr some of the Kentucky blowhards were discussing.

Given that Donovan already had an extension on the table from UF, I'd be that's not that much more rich than what Florida's going to offer him.

If that's the neighborhood we're talking about, I don't think money is going to be the reason Billy goes, if he does. It will be all about prestige.

I still don't think he's going, FWIW.