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View Full Version : Perimeter Play This Year in ACC



gw67
07-06-2008, 10:11 AM
Eleven of the fifteen All ACC players return this year and eight of them are perimeter players. It appears that most teams will rely on their outside players this coming season and that should make for good competition because the quality of the perimeter players in the ACC is very good this year. IMO, the perimeter play on three ACC teams, Duke, UNC and Miami, should be excellent this year, while the perimeter play at Wake, BC, VT, GT, Md, FS and Clemson should be good to very good. My thoughts on the top three teams are as follows:

Duke – The Duke perimeter play was good last year but I expect it to be better this year. They are experienced and deep, and they have three players who are potentially All ACC. Henderson still has holes in his game but he is expected to pick up his game this year and lead the team. Scheyer is underappreciated by many Duke fans but he is the Devils’ best all around perimeter player, IMO. Paulus was 3rd team All ACC last year, is a good long range shooter and he had the best a/to ratio in league play last year. Smith is an above average defensive player and an outstanding offensive player. He should thrive as a sixth man. As a freshman, passing was an afterthought and his ballhandling and decision making were not up to ACC point guard standards (a/to ratio less than 1). If he improves in these areas, he can be an All ACC player in his junior and senior seasons. Pocious and Williams provide good depth in the event someone gets hurt or in foul trouble.

UNC – The Tar Heels get back their top four perimeter players plus Frasor, a top freshman, Drew, and Graves. Like the Devils, they have experience, depth and several quality players. Lawson and Ellington are likely All ACC players and Green, Ginyard and Frasor are quality support players. Other than Ginyard, none are noted for their defensive play although Green, like Henderson, blocks a bunch of shots. All have good a/to ratios, even in their high octane offense. Some posters have their fingers crossed that the Heels will have chemistry problems because the three who tested the NBA waters will be unhappy feeding Hansbrough. I doubt it since the perimeter players get plenty of shots in their fast break offense.

Miami – None of the Canes perimeter players, McClinton, Dews, Asbury, Hurdle and Rios have the high school pedigree of the Duke and UNC players. All they do is play. Statistically, they are better long range and foul shooters than either Duke or UNC, and based on what I saw late last season they are better defensively as a unit. In addition, all the players have a positive a/to ratio. To this experienced group they add a good freshman wing, Jones. If Miami gets some rebounding and defensive play up front, then they will be a legitimate top 25 team.

The rest – Wake returns their top players and if Aminu is as good as they say and Teague improves, they could also have an excellent perimeter and join the three teams above. Virginia Tech, Maryland and BC return their perimeter players and all three should have very good outside play. Clemson loses a key player but their returning players are very good. Florida State and Georgia Tech are counting on young players and freshmen but both sets of perimeter players should be competitive. Only Virginia and N.C.State don’t appear to have top perimeter play at this time.

gw67

Edouble
07-06-2008, 02:12 PM
Scheyer is underappreciated by many Duke fans

Really?!?! I don't see that at all. I think most Duke fans see him as a highly valuable asset and one of the teams top three players along with Singler and Henderson.

skitelz
07-06-2008, 02:21 PM
no he's definitely underappreciated...i dont know how many duke fans ive talked to that say he's bad at defense and is slow and unathletic. which is not the case at all.

everyone is ready to keep him on the bench and let email, an unproven freshman, or marty, an injury prone unproven player, start in place of him. it just doesnt make sense to me how anyone can see this, after everything jon has done for duke basketball.

sorry, i rant easily.

CameronCrazy'11
07-06-2008, 03:56 PM
Scheyer's underappreciated because hes' not big and doesn't dominate people physically ad his play is not flashy. He just gets the ball in the basket. Alot. Look at his stats last year and you'll see the kind of contribution he made. Also, the way he nearly defeated Miami by himself last year was amazing.

Edouble
07-06-2008, 11:32 PM
Scheyer's underappreciated because hes' not big and doesn't dominate people physically ad his play is not flashy.

Is Zoubek underappreciated because he doesn't drain threes and do killer crossovers?

CameronCrazy'11
07-07-2008, 12:25 AM
Is Zoubek underappreciated because he doesn't drain threes and do killer crossovers?

No, but I don't see what that has to with the price of tea in China. I'm saying that I think people tend to undervalue Scheyer because he doesn't look like a dominating guard (at 6'5" and 180) and because he doesn't produce a lot of dunks or highlight reel plays.

gw67
07-07-2008, 08:07 AM
I agree with all the points made by skitelz and CameronCrazy11 regarding Scheyer.

Scheyer had a remarkable sophmore year, IMO. Although he averaged five minutes a game less than his freshman year, he improved in all areas except scoring. He shot better from the field, foul line and three-point distance; his turnovers were down and his assists were up; his rebounding improved and his steals were up. In the latter half of the season, he often played the point and, based on my observations, he was better defensively. He can play all three perimeter positions but he needs to improve his strength and he needs to look for his shot more.

gw67

jv001
07-07-2008, 09:13 AM
I think Jon is similar to Greg in their styles of play. Greg is the better shooter, Jon is more of a slasher. Both are good shooters however and both can handle the ball. Where they are really similar is defense on the ball. Jon is better at it, but is still not as good as Coach K would like. If Smith and Williams can play very good on the ball defense next season, they will steal minutes from both. I like all four players and expect all to contribute.

greybeard
07-07-2008, 09:29 AM
Debates about individuals seem almost besides the point. For much of the season, Duke played better as a team than anyone in the league. Then they started getting beat up. Miami is as good as the refs let them be. If the refs call the game according to the rules, Miami does not play with the top teams. If they allow Miami to play like the "U," then they are a tough, tough team.

Personally, I can't stand their style of play and will not watch. If, as happened last year, no one on an opponent's team is allowed to take a shot at the basket from layup position without taking a real shot, I mean a real shot, that prevents any possibility of a score, if that happens more than once, and the coach is not warned and then tossed the next time, the game changes into thug ball. Miami is deep with muscled players who seem, at leat one of them (the red haired kid) like nice kids, but behaved abhorantly on the court. This was beyond physical play, which I also don't like because I think it does violence to the intelligence that the game should embrace, and is against the rules. That said, Miami probably will be a top 25 team, to the disgrace of the game. Why'd they let those guys into the league? Can they change their mind?

skitelz
07-07-2008, 11:05 AM
jv001, i agree with you up to a point. greg is not a good on the ball defender. with all of his feet and now knee problems, he just doesnt have the footspeed. he regularly gets beat, even though he tries his hardest. he more than makes up for his defensive deficiencies (sp) with his offensive capabilities and leadership.

jon actually is a pretty good on the ball defender. he does not get steals, but he keeps his man in front of him and gets beat on a much less regular basis than greg. what jon really excells at is his help defense, deny defense, and hustle. he doesnt get blocks like gerald, so most people dont notice his excellent placement.

if nolan or email had displayed dmarc-like qualities on the defensive end, than i would agree with you that they needed more minutes. but they havent. email is just a freshman and i doubt k would throw him into a situation where he has to guard someone that jon cant guard. most freshman, even top 15 talent, probably could not handle the pressure mentally, even though they have the physical aspects to do it. nolan did not prove last year that he was good enough to take minutes from anyone (except maybe paulus) on the defensive end. i attribute this to what i just said about email. he wasnt ready mentally to guard the singletary's, lawson's, and curry's of basketball. this year, i think he will start to prove his capabilities on the defensive end, but he will get subbed in more for paulus on the defensive end than jon.

Classof06
07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Debates about individuals seem almost besides the point. For much of the season, Duke played better as a team than anyone in the league. Then they started getting beat up. Miami is as good as the refs let them be. If the refs call the game according to the rules, Miami does not play with the top teams. If they allow Miami to play like the "U," then they are a tough, tough team.

Personally, I can't stand their style of play and will not watch. If, as happened last year, no one on an opponent's team is allowed to take a shot at the basket from layup position without taking a real shot, I mean a real shot, that prevents any possibility of a score, if that happens more than once, and the coach is not warned and then tossed the next time, the game changes into thug ball. Miami is deep with muscled players who seem, at least one of them (the red haired kid) like nice kids, but behaved abhorantly on the court. This was beyond physical play, which I also don't like because I think it does violence to the intelligence that the game should embrace, and is against the rules. That said, Miami probably will be a top 25 team, to the disgrace of the game. Why'd they let those guys into the league? Can they change their mind?

I don't know which Miami game you're talking about but I was at the game in Coral Gables and Miami outplayed us, fair and square. It wasn't an egregiously physical game but it was a sloppy game on both sides. Even though Duke came back from 20+ points to within 3, we still had no business winning that game. Yet, if the game would've been 3-4 minutes longer, we probably would've won.

Miami is going to be a good team next year and expect them to give us another 1-2 close games, however many times we play them. And to be honest, I'm glad Miami is good. Miami being solid and making the NCAA tourney is good for the league, which clearly isn't as strong as it has been. I mean, we complain about ACC expansion at the expense of basketball and then a team like Miami improves, making us a better basketball conference and we complain? Seems backwards to me. Frank Haith has done a wonderful job at the "U" and should be commended.

greybeard
07-07-2008, 02:50 PM
I don't know which Miami game you're talking about but I was at the game in Coral Gables and Miami outplayed us, fair and square. It wasn't an egregiously physical game but it was a sloppy game on both sides. Even though Duke came back from 20+ points to within 3, we still had no business winning that game. Yet, if the game would've been 3-4 minutes longer, we probably would've won.

Miami is going to be a good team next year and expect them to give us another 1-2 close games, however many times we play them. And to be honest, I'm glad Miami is good. Miami being solid and making the NCAA tourney is good for the league, which clearly isn't as strong as it has been. I mean, we complain about ACC expansion at the expense of basketball and then a team like Miami improves, making us a better basketball conference and we complain? Seems backwards to me. Frank Haith has done a wonderful job at the "U" and should be commended.

I only watched the first game which I believe was played at Duke. The red haired kid lassoed anyone who went to shoot that was within his reach if they were inside the paint. The bigs beat the snot out of Kyle. If there was a layup by Duke with any defender within reach when the shooter did not get put down, I didn't see it.

Their exterior defense was like line play at the U. Sorry, I know that we (which does not include me) only look for consistency, but contact is a foul on one side or the other when it serves to impede progress. If they were charges, then call if; if not, call it the other way, which was the way it should be called.

It is not basketball when the paradigm is for a defender on the exterior to belly out a dribbler who is moving laterally and slightly towards the basket to make him veer away. It is a foul.

This coach of theirs when they played Duke had three rules: (1) one, keep a body pushing against Kyle at all times, even when he walked to the huddle during time outs and blast him when you both go for rebounds or when he tries to shoot on the interior; (2) no one shoots inside the paint without getting hammered if it is anything approaching a high percentage shot so that the shot does not go in and the guy thinks twice about beating his man again; and (3) no penetration laterally from the sides to the foul line, lateral dribblers are to be pushed to the top of the key.

The guy is betting that the refs will not blow the whistle each and every time one of those things happen, except for the clobbering on the shots. For that, he had enough big bodies. The manhandling of Kyle and the dribble penetrators, he was counting that the refs would not call the game straight up, which would have put his starters on the bench within the first 10 minutes. They didn't.

Did you see the same things?