MBB: Duke 72, Virginia Tech 65 Post-game Thread

[_Gary]

After the takedown, the Hokies got a rebound and took it downcourt for a 4-on-5. I'm not sure what happened after that, but I'm quite sure that he wasn't celebrating the elbow/clothesline/takedown. I'm guessing he probably didn't even fully see the action on that particular altercation.

I really hope you are correct. I'd just like to know the exact sequence and when he was hooping and clapping. It had better not have been directly after Singler went down. That would be a huge, and deeply disturbing, revelation if it could be verified by video.


Gary

[CDu]

I really hope you are correct. I'd just like to know the exact sequence and when he was hooping and clapping. It had better not have been directly after Singler went down. That would be a huge, and deeply disturbing, revelation if it could be verified by video.


Gary

He was hooping and clapping throughout the game - that's what he does. Thus, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was hooping and clapping directly after the Singler sequence. As I noted elsewhere, even if he was cheering at that time, I'd suspect the cheering had nothing to do with the Singler incident. I wouldn't be surprised if Greenberg didn't even see the play happen - I didn't catch it when I was watching it live. There were a lot of things going on, and a lot of other things that he could have been excited about (VT was starting to make a run I believe).

I don't think there's any way you'll be able to verify with video that Greenberg was celebrating the Singler incident. For one thing, I'm very positive that he wouldn't cheer for such a thing. For another, even if he did you probably wouldn't be able to tell it from the video without a closeup on what Greenberg is saying. Feel free to look, but I think you're fishing a little too deep on this one.

[_Gary]

I don't know that I'm barking up the wrong tree. That would imply that I was desperately looking for something that had no chance of actually being there. And while Seth is very animated most of the time, he was not literally cheering, pumping his fists, and exhorting his players with gusto every second of the game. But I do distinctly remember that at some point shortly after Singler went down Seth was pumping his fists and clapping his hands as if to say "That's it guys, keep it up". Admittedly I doubt I'll get a definitive answer unless someone was at the game and actually saw everything unfold. But make no mistake, Seth certainly teaches physical play that crosses the line and I don't think it would be beyond him to applaud one of his players knocking down a Duke player.


Gary

[CDu]

I don't know that I'm barking up the wrong tree. That would imply that I was desperately looking for something that had no chance of actually being there. And while Seth is very animated most of the time, he was not literally cheering, pumping his fists, and exhorting his players with gusto every second of the game. But I do distinctly remember that at some point shortly after Singler went down Seth was pumping his fists and clapping his hands as if to say "That's it guys, keep it up". Admittedly I doubt I'll get a definitive answer unless someone was at the game and actually saw everything unfold. But make no mistake, Seth certainly teaches physical play that crosses the line and I don't think it would be beyond him to applaud one of his players knocking down a Duke player.


Gary

And as I said, there are PLENTY of things he could be saying "that's it guys, keep it up," that happened in a similar time frame to the Singler incident. You're suggesting this as though Greenberg cheering his team on at the time of the Singler incident could only be related to that incident.

You're more or less suggesting the possibility that Greenberg specifically saw the elbow and then cheered the behavior. I think that that is ridiculous. He may coach overly physical play, but I seriously doubt he coaches up intentionally dirty play.

I certainly don't like Greenberg. He's sleazy and he clearly has a chip on his shoulder, especially when it comes to Duke. But I really do think you're reaching on this one. The Singler play coincided with a stoppage of play shortly thereafter, and the Hokies were in the middle of the run. The obvious explanation for the Greenberg celebration is that he was cheering his team to CONTINUE to make the run during a timeout.

I have real trouble buying the possibility that even a jerk like Greenberg would be actively cheering (at least knowingly) for a dirty play by his players. There are just so many other things that he could have been cheering about at that exact moment (if it really even WAS at the moment you think it was) other than the worst case scenario to which you've jumped.

[_Gary]

You're suggesting this as though Greenberg cheering his team on at the time of the Singler incident could only be related to that incident...

You're more or less suggesting the possibility that Greenberg specifically saw the elbow and then cheered the behavior. I think that that is ridiculous. He may coach overly physical play, but I seriously doubt he coaches up intentionally dirty play.

I have real trouble buying the possibility that even a jerk like Greenberg would be actively cheering (at least knowingly) for a dirty play by his players. There are just so many other things that he could have been cheering about at that exact moment (if it really even WAS at the moment you think it was) other than the worst case scenario to which you've jumped.

Three things then I'll let this go.

Number one, I'm not suggesting that Greenberg would be cheering specifically because he saw Kyle on the ground and was somehow hoping for a Nolan Part Deux repeat. I have simply asked a question: At what exact point was he pumping his fists, clapping his hands and shouting encouragement to his team when I saw a specific sideline view of this shortly after the elbow? It was clear to me as ABC was going to break that they were not showing a live shot, but a video shot of Greenberg that had happened moments before going to the timeout. He was looking down at the Duke end of the court, not his own offensive end when he was exhorting his guys. So his clapping was in the right direction for it to have been about the defensive play of his guys, not some made basket on the Hokie's offensive end.

Number two, I strongly disagree with you that Seth doesn't teach overtly physical play which can lead to and include dirty play. Now that's something that's ridiculous. The guy absolutely doesn't mind some rough stuff on the court. I never said I thought he wanted or taught his guys to actually injure other players. You're reading too much into my post if that's your impression. But I do think he likes to see things get very, very physical just for the intimidation factor. He's not beyond that, IMHO.

Number three. This is not the first, nor will it be the last time that I've been accused of reaching. There have been several times over the years when someone has accused me of that. I'm proud to say that often I feel I've been justified in my original proposal. But this is one instance where I sincerely do hope I'm wrong.

Nuff said (from my end).

Gary

[CDu]

Number one, I'm not suggesting that Greenberg would be cheering specifically because he saw Kyle on the ground and was somehow hoping for a Nolan Part Deux repeat. I have simply asked a question: At what exact point was he pumping his fists, clapping his hands and shouting encouragement to his team when I saw a specific sideline view of this shortly after the elbow? It was clear to me as ABC was going to break that they were not showing a live shot, but a video shot of Greenberg that had happened moments before going to the timeout. He was looking down at the Duke end of the court, not his own offensive end when he was exhorting his guys. So his clapping was in the right direction for it to have been about the defensive play of his guys, not some made basket on the Hokie's offensive end.

And as I said, there are numerous reasons he could be cheering his guys that are completely unrelated to the Singler incident. Perhaps he was celebrating a big defensive stop. Perhaps he knew the momentum was shifting, and was imploring them to push the tempo and spark a run. Again - the time of the cheering may very well have little to nothing to do with the Singler incident.

That's why I think you're reaching. You're taking a quick clip of Greenberg cheering (with minimal if any context) and suggesting the possibility that he's cheering about the dirty play on Singler. Given all of the possible reasons that he could be cheering (even at that EXACT moment), I think it is a big reach to say it was directly related to the Singler play.

Number two, I strongly disagree with you that Seth doesn't teach overtly physical play which can lead to and include dirty play. Now that's something that's ridiculous. The guy absolutely doesn't mind some rough stuff on the court. I never said I thought he wanted or taught his guys to actually injure other players. You're reading too much into my post if that's your impression. But I do think he likes to see things get very, very physical just for the intimidation factor. He's not beyond that, IMHO.

I never said he was above coaching up physical play. I completely agree that he coaches his team to play physical. So does Coach K. I said he doesn't coach up dirty play. There's a difference. I don't believe he (or any major college basketball coach, for that matter) coaches dirty play. Quite frankly, you wouldn't get far as a coach if you did. I think he coaches up very physical play, and he has some players who cross the line. I don't particularly care for that style of coaching, but I do think there's a distinction to be made there.