Discussion of 2008-09

[RelativeWays]

1. We need an emotional on the court leader who would rather die than lose (i.e. Laettner, Ferry, Battier even Williams and Duhon). They don't have to be super talented, just motivated, liked Wojo.

2. We need offensive diversity. I want to see Singler and King establish mid-range jumpers, smith and Hendo drive to the basket, Scheyer be the jack of all trades and Paulus shoot 3s or drive. Maybe Olek is a perimeter player that has a consistent jumper

3. REBOUND. Let all go buy some of those mastergrips hand exersizers and make the team use them on a constant basis. A reminder that they play basketball and not volleyball may help.

4. Quickness at the point and defensive adaptiveness. I'm hoping Elliot Williams pitches in here.

Well we did improve from last year, but not where we want to be. Lets keep moving forward.

[_Gary]

I don't love him, but Doug Gottlieb has made some great points in the post-game on ESPNNews. I agree with everything he's said, including that Duke just doesn't have the talent they need to win. Especially front court talent. Our 2001 squad was loaded with true NBA talent in a way that just isn't true at this point. We were whipped on the boards badly, which I'm pretty sure would not have happened with a Boozer and Battier type combo. Not easy to come by, and while having five NBA players as your starting five is not going to happen very often, we need an upgrade in the front court.

[Duke76]

I heard that too 4 NBA starters on that last championship team. I don't even see but one NBA player on our team,,,Henderson...no one else will be playing...
end of story

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

I'd like to see us have one player that actually gets mad or is just plain mean and lets it show on their face.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Most of the comments made about what has happened this season tend to look inward at the basketball team and coaches. As I step back a bit and think about whatever trends have developed since the last national championship, there is one which is easy to overlook or ignore.

Since Duke began to dominate men's basketball in the Coach K era, much has changed throughout the NCAA. We tend to be aware that more and more top players are leaving college before they graduate and more have gone straight to the NBA. The trend that may be overlooked is that the level of parity among colleges and universities has been rising rapidly in Division I. Coach K has had to figure out out to adjust to these changes and deal with them. A few years ago he commented at a Blue Devil Club gathering that he was going to change his recruiting strategy and go after really good players who are overlooked by the McDonald's AA but who can be coached to win. (I'm paraphrasing here.) The recent teams have been fun to watch and often achieve high rankings during the season. But these teams have not displayed the same dazzling brilliance associated with teams during the time we were getting to the Final Four and winning national championships.

Someone commented about how Coach Wooden's teams didn't get down on the floor to go after the ball the way Duke does and that maybe our team gets tired near the end of the season because of the way we play. These days teams are playing more and more up tempo games and that likely requires a different style of play to combat. Preventing mental and physical fatigue at the end of the season may require having enough very high caliber players to dominate other teams.

This is a time to be thankful for our wins and the successes this year and ponder what sort of new adaptations are required to stay at the top in today's Division I.

[heath_harshman4]

some changes I would like...

1. As said earlier in this thread, more early season non-conference tough road games. Maybe going to a UCONN or Vandy or a team like that in a tough environment before the usual ACC games.

2. Better conditioning. It's two years in a row now that I believe conditioning has played a big role in the end of the year. Coach K admitted it was a factor last year, and this year the last 10 or so games were not even close to the Duke team I saw the first 20 or so.

3. MORE ZONE!?!? All those back-door cuts by Belmont and WVu were making me sick. THe presssure man to man is great, but mixing in some zone wouldn't hurt. I know he did earlier in the year, but I didn't see it at all down the stretch of the season, and I think it could help alot.

[heath_harshman4]

I heard that too 4 NBA starters on that last championship team. I don't even see but one NBA player on our team,,,Henderson...no one else will be playing...
end of story

Singler?

[Duke76]

maybe Singler, but he's only 6'8"...in between height and needs to bulk up and also improve his outside shot

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

1. We need an emotional on the court leader who would rather die than lose (i.e. Laettner, Ferry, Battier even Williams and Duhon). They don't have to be super talented, just motivated, liked Wojo.

I think this describes Greg Paulus to a T. Greg's attitude and toughness should never, ever be questioned. Unfortunately his physical gifts are not in the same ballpark as his heart, and he still has shown no significant ability to create shots for others. As several people have noted, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

2. We need offensive diversity. I want to see Singler and King establish mid-range jumpers, smith and Hendo drive to the basket, Scheyer be the jack of all trades and Paulus shoot 3s or drive. Maybe Olek is a perimeter player that has a consistent jumper

I'd also love to see some diversity, and if we can get Nolan to become a regular threat to slash (esp if he can both dish and score) we become significantly more dangerous. We have pretty good shooters, but we just don't have a catalyst to get them good shots.

3. REBOUND. Let all go buy some of those mastergrips hand exersizers and make the team use them on a constant basis. A reminder that they play basketball and not volleyball may help.

Our D just isn't built to rebound. We'd REALLY have to overhaul things to become competitive on the boards. The plan is for steals and denial to make up for a deficiency in rebounding. Without the steals or denial, things don't end very well.

4. Quickness at the point and defensive adaptiveness. I'm hoping Elliot Williams pitches in here.

Losing the ACC DPOY makes me uneasy about seeing improvement in this area.

Well we did improve from last year, but not where we want to be. Lets keep moving forward.

This we can agree on. Although the results were only marginally better (one shot in the NCAA's, one game in the ACC) I do think we're getting past the horrific mistakes of 2003-5 and should show some improvement. UNC is bringing in an all-time class for the next 2 seasons so we'll see how we do in the ACC.

[Duke76]

I mean JJ player of the yr twice and he won't last much longer...
I am not even sure Tyler is gonna make it... but maybe that's not really the point...we need now some strong physical players whose shots are not short at the end of the season that have mid-range games....gerald and Singler the only ones with a mid range game

[trinitydevil]

Completely agree. I don't necessarily agree that K hasn't been targeting the top guys as some have suggested. It's just that our top recruits haven't been panning out. He is ultimately accountable for this. Hansblah vs. McBob, Love vs. Singler, etc...

Of all the comments/excuses/reasoning talked about on here, the fact is responsibility lies at the top. At the pro level, who gets the axe, players or coaches? Sure, some players get traded, but the coaches get the axe. I'm not saying K get fired, but I am saying he should accept responsibility. It is his team that has performed miserably in post season for the past few seasons. Now say all you want about players being overrated ( talking about all 8 MCD AAs), but our staff either evaluated them, or went on their accolades. I for one don't blame kids, I bet they tried harder than any of us can possibly imagine. Someone started a tread earlier this afternoon (which was removed soon thereafter) that the staff should accept responsibility. I agree. Sorry, but I think I had a right to say that, and I hope it's not a rules violation....

[houstondukie]

I like what I see...

1st team:
PG G. Paulus
SG J. Scheyer
SF G. Henderson
PF K. Singler
C L. Thomas

2nd team:
PG N. Smith
SG E. Williams/ M. Pocious
SF T. King / O. Cryz
PF D. McClure
C B. Zoubek

Things I like...
Depth at every position.
Experience w/ 2 seniors and 5 juniors
Potential All-Americans in Henderson and Singler

[OldSchool]

Our team next year will be deep and very, very good.

Whether next year's team can take a step beyond being a very good team to being a great team that can roll over opponents comes down to one person: Brian Zoubek.

In my view, there is legitimate potential for Brian to average ca. 25 minutes a game and consistently deliver double-doubles.

I know Brian has plenty of doubters on this board, but my opinion is that his limiting factors are first, that he is not physically strong enough and second, that his basketball skills are still relatively undeveloped. In other words, I do not see Brian's limitations as being that he is too unathletic and uncoordinated to become a top center in the ACC before he is done.

We will miss DeMarcus's heart, toughness and leadership. But Gerald will be more consistent, Kyle stronger, Lance further improved, Nolan a bigger contributor, Marty back, etc., etc.

So if through further strength training and work on his basketball fundamentals, Brian raises his game to the next level, we can be a great team. If he only improves marginally, we will still be a very good team, but we would not get back to a Final Four without some breaks falling our way.

[Devilsfan]

Big man, Big mans' coach. Big man, big mans' coach.
It seems like such a simple solution.
Yes but even so two other things need to happen, imo.
1. Keep everyone healthy.
2. Stop wearing the team out before the end of March.
Now where's that 4th NC Banner?

[battierfan]

I have nothing particularly new to offer but think I'll feel better if I just get it off my chest. Here's what I think:

1) Recruiting failures / misses are at the heart of the current problems (failures: Lance Thomas, Zoubek, etc / misses: Patterson / Monrole / etc.)

2) We are completely built to win in the regular season and not the post season. Kinda reminds me of the problems the New York Yankees have had over the last several years: glorious offense that always gets them to the playoffs but then it's all about pitching and they flame out every year.

Now I feel better.

HDB

Regarding (2) I agree with your analogy with the Yankees in terms of the results on the field/court, but I wonder if the "Suns" offense is even suited to the NCAAs. The teams that have had the most success recently seem to be teams able to play multiple styles with multiple strong/athletic types that don't necessarily specialize in one particular aspect of the game. The NCAAs are so physically brutal, match-ups so varied, and the calls so unpredictable that a coach needs to be able to adjust on the fly to win. Having at least 2 players that can bang inside and take punishment seems to be prerequisite to surviving and advancing. Duke's style of play can win if you have several NBA-caliber players. The last time we really had that was 2004, with Duhon, Deng, Reddick and Williams. You can count Shav too, I suppose since he certainly did well in 2004 and was/is in the NBA with the Sixers.

Singler and Henderson will not be enough. We need NBA-caliber PG and C/PF to help them out.

[Sandman]

Speak for yourself. I am a fan because I attended Duke university. My loyalty to the team is not impacted one whit by this game.

I'm with you Gordog. My loyalty is to Duke University, win or lose. I have wayyyyy too much blood, sweat, and tears invested in the Gothic rockpile not to bleed deep, deep blue - no matter what! This is MY university and I love it, warts and all!!!

We'll play hard next year, beat Carolina, and win the National championship -- why not? A great coach, talented players, and a lot of heart.

I also think we will finally start wining some football games this year. Can't wait until August - go Cutcliff!

[TampaDuke]

We need to get a big man of the Brand/Boozer variety. That is, a 6-9 guy with a wide body who likes to bang. No more 6-11/7 foot super thin guys like Zoubek, Sanders, Boateng, Newton, etc.

Sure, they'll get a few blocks per game but at 18-21 years old, these guys usually are just not developed enough to bang with shorter centers in college. Teams like UConn found that out yeseterday. I wouldn't be surprised if Georgetown finds out later this tourney as well.

I don't hold out much hope that Zoubek will be anything other than a small role player for us (unless he could redshirt for about four years).

I know K has gone after several thick PFs without success recently. Hopefully, he turns that around soon.

[dukerev]

So let's see if I can summarize what we "need" in order to be "successful" next year and into the future. This is from this thread and others only since the WVU game ended...

- a big man's assistant coach
- a recruiting coach
- a conditioning coach
- more blue collar players
- more superstar players because we have too many blue collar players
- stop shooting the 3 in our offense
- make the 3
- no more wing players
- more athletes
- an emotional on-court leader
- less emotion from our players during the season
- more NBA talent
- no 1-and-done players
- lots of tough road games early in the season
- don't get tired at the end of the season

I'm sure I missed something else we needed. Surely what we really need is for the conglomeration of great basketball minds inhabiting the DBR bulletin board to be made the new program directors of Duke basketball.

We'll be fine. This time last year (and especially after Josh went pro last year) we were worried that the roof had collapsed. If you told us we'd win 28 games and advance farther in the tournament relying on a freshman to be our 2nd best player, you'd have taken it. I would have. We expected this year to be one that would set up next year. Next year is on the horizon. Duke basketball will still be the envy of every other program in the country (and it is today). Remember: every day is a great day to be a Duke basketball fan. EVERY SINGLE DAY, including today. Wear your Duke togs tomorrow (or a Duke lapel pin to church). Go Duke!

[battierfan]

During a press conference, K is asked what he told the team before they win their last game of the season (no matter how far they get!):

He replies: "Before the game, I told them to just play. I did this back in 2001 when we were down 20 to Maryland in the first half of the Final Four. And you all remember how that turned out.

I told them, look you guys are wonderful. I've enjoyed coaching you this season and I can't ask for better young men to join me in trying to accomplish something great. I trust you. You've gotten us this far with your heart, desire and skill. So, just go out there and play your best, enjoy yourselves, and see what happens. Don't play for me, or the fans, or the past glory, or to shut up the fans who hate Duke. Just play and we will win this game."

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Duke basketball will still be the envy of every other program in the country (and it is today).

There's a program 8 miles down the road that won a title 3 years ago, won both ACC championships (again), suits up the NPOY, won their first round game by 38 more points than we did, is still playing, and has a pair of amazing recruiting classes coming in over the next 2 seasons. I'm not sure they envy us very much . . .