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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Hey, could anyone who heard the postgame on the radio give a summary? I wasn't able to listen, but I would be curious to see what Cut had to say. Thanks!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    ...
    Still, Duke finished with 192 yards rushing ... Duke only topped 100 yards once last season -- and that was against NCCU. Believe me, Elon is MUCH better defensively than NCCU -- they were the top defense in the Southern Conference and one of the best in the FCS last year. I know they lost some guys, but I also know they expect to be near the same level this year. ...
    Take away BC's run in the end, and Duke averaged 3.27 yards per carry.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post

    (3) Four freshmen played -- Connette at QB; Snead and Thompson at TB and Braxton at WR. I've heard some comments by people that they wish one or two of those guys had not played and would redshirt. I disagree, let me address the decision behind each of those kids:

    -- Connette: For better or worse, he's our backup quarterback. He clearly outperformed Schroeder in spring and preseason. If something happens to Renfree, he give us our best chance to win. If that's the case, you've GOT to get him some playing time, just in case -- so he doesn't go in cold. In addition, he does bring a dimension that Renfree and Schroeder lack -- he's an excellent runner (as he showed with his 48-yard jaunt in garbage time). There will be times this year when that comes in handy.
    I just have to disagree. Listen, its important to have a backup QB. Fine. But he should be a BACKUP. Connette could be a backup and still redshirt, only burning the redshirt if necessary.

    And the running QB thing i find is totally bull unless they're Tim Tebow. When Connette comes on, the opposing team knows to watch for the run, negating its effectiveness. And i find it hard to believe he can pass better than Renfree. Thus putting him in is more or less WORSENING our offense for one or two drives a game.

    Seems silly to me.



    -- Snead and Thompson: We're going to need both of them this year. Jay Hollingsworth and Patrick Kurunwune do a lot of nice things, but neither is quick enough to be a successful runner. That leaves Desmond Scott, who does have potential ... and Snead and Thompson. That's three quality backs to carry the ball and that's why you need. Hollingsworth and Kurunwune will play, but as blockers, sometimes receivers.
    Umm, hate to say this, but Hollingsworth in particular is going to get plenty of carries. Kurunwune may not. So with 2 running backs already (if we ignore kurunwune) there was no need to burn BOTH Thompson and Snead's redshirts.
    <devildeac> anyone playing drinking games by now?
    7:49:36<Wander> drink every qb run?
    7:49:38<loran16> umm, drink every time asack rushes?
    7:49:38<wolfybeard> @devildeac: drink when Asack runs a keeper
    7:49:39 PM<CB&B> any time zack runs, drink

    Carolina Delenda Est

  4. #24

    backup

    Quote Originally Posted by loran16 View Post
    I just have to disagree. Listen, its important to have a backup QB. Fine. But he should be a BACKUP. Connette could be a backup and still redshirt, only burning the redshirt if necessary.

    And the running QB thing i find is totally bull unless they're Tim Tebow. When Connette comes on, the opposing team knows to watch for the run, negating its effectiveness. And i find it hard to believe he can pass better than Renfree. Thus putting him in is more or less WORSENING our offense for one or two drives a game.

    Seems silly to me.
    I guess we'll just have to disagree.

    What happens if we get off to a 4-3 start this season and Renfree goes down in a tie game with Navy? You're going to play Connette cold? You're going to ask a freshman who has never played a snap to step in a save the two games -- Navy and Virginia the next week -- that we have to win to be a bowl team?

    Connette isn't Tim Tebow, but he isn't Zack Asack either. Yeah, he's a threat to run, but if defenses are stacked for that, he can and will throw.

    The point is not to play him so much as a change of pace, but to prepare him for a situation where he might have to salvage our season if Renfree gets hurt, You might not think that's of value -- but I do (and apparently so do the coaches).

    Besides, we're redshirting Anthony Boone, who probably has more promise that Schroeder. If you redshirt Connette, that means you have the second and third best QBs in your program in the same class. This way, they'll be a year apart in eligibility.

    As for the running backs, all I can say is wait. as the season wears on, both Snead and Thompson will get more carries than Hollingsworth -- more effective carries. The two freshmen and Scott are our future at running back and we're going to need all three.

  5. #25
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I guess we'll just have to disagree.

    What happens if we get off to a 4-3 start this season and Renfree goes down in a tie game with Navy? You're going to play Connette cold? You're going to ask a freshman who has never played a snap to step in a save the two games -- Navy and Virginia the next week -- that we have to win to be a bowl team?

    Connette isn't Tim Tebow, but he isn't Zack Asack either. Yeah, he's a threat to run, but if defenses are stacked for that, he can and will throw.

    The point is not to play him so much as a change of pace, but to prepare him for a situation where he might have to salvage our season if Renfree gets hurt, You might not think that's of value -- but I do (and apparently so do the coaches).

    Besides, we're redshirting Anthony Boone, who probably has more promise that Schroeder. If you redshirt Connette, that means you have the second and third best QBs in your program in the same class. This way, they'll be a year apart in eligibility.

    As for the running backs, all I can say is wait. as the season wears on, both Snead and Thompson will get more carries than Hollingsworth -- more effective carries. The two freshmen and Scott are our future at running back and we're going to need all three.
    I think you're right on point. This program is still going through a rather long transition to becoming strong again. Wake faced the same thing for the first few years and had to play many they wanted to redshirt. We've got to increase the number of wins during this transition and that makes for a very tenuous balance between playing now and saving for later.

    In addition to the observations made earlier about the game, I'm looking for a greater intensity to develop as the younger guys gain experience. Wallace Wade used to say he could see it in the players' eyes.

    Another point about yesterday, the game day atmosphere was the best in years. There was a sense of real excitement and energy returning to campus.

  6. #26
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Genedoc View Post
    Exactly - 6'4" dudes with corner speed and great hands are WRs.

    I hate piling on a kid, so I won't, but our corner play last night was abysmal from the very beginning.

    Renfree was markedly better than the numbers look. At least 4 or 5 of his incompletions were drops that hit receivers squarely in the hands, and 2 of them would have been for TDs. Another incompletion was a throw away on a busted play. I only remember him missing 1 or 2 legitimate pass attempts all game.

    My guess is that Renfree sets all sorts of records this year. Based on the way the O and the D looked, we're going to have to score 35+ regularly, mostly through the air, and we actually looked capable of scoring that much.
    I think the only "bad" ball he threw all night was the one he threw behind one of the Vs in the end zone near the end of the 1st half. Yes, he got his hands on it but it was behind him and would have been a tough catch for the TD. Quite a debut.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Loved, loved, loved our passing game! Renfree throws such a nice ball, on target, on time and easy to catch! And the Killer V's (I like that name!) and company, including our bevvy of tight ends, do a nice job of catching the ball, hanging on to it after the catch, and making extra yards - they are all tough runners!

    Desmond Scott and Josh Snead are both tough, quick runners. Watching Snead in HS last year, he does NOT shy away from tough runs up the middle, although as noted he's not a big bruiser. What he excels at is breaking through the line, after contact, and taking it to the house for 40, 50, 70 yards. On a team where he handled the ball 75+% of the time, so the defense keyed on him on every play, he'd have 35 to 40 carries and 2 or 3 long runs (and rarely lost yardage, even when hit at the line).

    Defensively, our corners, especially Johnny Williams, need to LOOK FOR THE FREAKING BALL ! Our linebackers played well, and Kromah made a beautiful interception late in the game, catching a bullet as it didn't whiz past him! And I look for Kenny Anunike to be an impact player at DE as he grows into his roll.

    A fun night, an incredible day of Brunchgating! Nice seeing Peloton and others who dropped by. No, I didn't hear Acymetric yell DBR, but that's just crazietalk anyway!

    On to Wake Forest, and then the upset of the millennium! I can look past Wake, the team can't.
    What made Kromah's INT even more impressive was that the ball was behind him and he still made the pick. Very nice.

  8. #28
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    Take away BC's run in the end, and Duke averaged 3.27 yards per carry.
    Which is a move in the right direction, better than the ~2.2 yards/carry we averaged last year.


  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Not much to add to what has been said. I was hoping to see Connette earlier, but our defense never really let that happen (specifically the CB's..but it's been well noted so far). I was sure Connette was just going to come in and take a knee, so to see him bust out that run was loads of fun. Thanks to all who stopped by the crazietalk tent, it was great putting new faces to old names and seeing old faces once again. The whole day was an 18 hour blast.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    I have been going to Duke games since the middle of the decade and whether it was Ted's soldiers or Cut's we have never had a true BCS defensive backfield. Cut (I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the country including Sabin) has given us more speed but they need to start looking for the ball. They are so small that we might be in a bit of trouble down the road when we start playing real college FB teams. It didn't take elon long to realize their #3 was a great match up against Williams. As for the O line, they pass block better but they can't seem to consistently open holes for our backs who at first seemed a little impatient and didn't seem to wait for plays to develop. We did end up with almost 200 yards on the ground even if 50 were on a late in the game run by our back up QB. Renfree, and Varner were truely excellent on the positive side.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by loran16 View Post
    I just have to disagree. Listen, its important to have a backup QB. Fine. But he should be a BACKUP. Connette could be a backup and still redshirt, only burning the redshirt if necessary.
    But if it's necessary, that means Renfree is injured. If Renfree is injured, wouldn't you prefer replacing him with a QB who has some game experience under his belt as opposed to a QB who had no game experience?

    Preparing your back-up to take the field if necessary seems very basic to me.

  12. #32
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    But if it's necessary, that means Renfree is injured. If Renfree is injured, wouldn't you prefer replacing him with a QB who has some game experience under his belt as opposed to a QB who had no game experience?

    Preparing your back-up to take the field if necessary seems very basic to me.
    I also feel comfortable assuming that we will have recruited another good QB by the time Connette leaves. Having him for an extra year would be nice, but having a legit backup with actual game experience this year is so much more important. We have zero margin for error this year, and I really think its important that we turn a corner NOW. If we do, recruiting will start to pick up (and that includes new QBs). Playing Connette is absolutely the right call...particularly if he can rip off a few plays like the final play of the game every once in a while.

  13. #33

    secondary

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    I have been going to Duke games since the middle of the decade and whether it was Ted's soldiers or Cut's we have never had a true BCS defensive backfield. Cut (I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the country including Sabin) has given us more speed but they need to start looking for the ball. They are so small that we might be in a bit of trouble down the road when we start playing real college FB teams.
    All I can say is be patient. The young guys DO have BCS size and speed. But they are young -- Ross Cockrell (6-0, 170), Garrett Patterson (6-0, 180), Anthony Young-Wiseman (6-1, 200) and Walt Canty (6-1, 205). Jordan Byas is 6-2, 215 ... Quan Stevenson (redshirtinjg this year) is 6-1, 210 -- that's bigger as a group than Virginia Tech's secondary or the one UNC thought it would have before the suspensions (their two veteran corners, Brown and Burney, are 5-10 and 5-9, respectively). The guys Cut is working in have ACC-quality speed to go with their size.

    What they don't have is experience. Chris Rwabukamba is playing because he's a smart experienced back, but he does not have top-level ACC physical gifts. The new guys do and when they develop later this year or the next, you see a secondary that's as big and has fast as any on the ACC.

    The same thing is happening at LB. The second year guys are top-level BCS athletes -- more than Tauiliili or Rey or Kromah ever were. Auggie Campbell is 6-3, 225 and has run a 4.37 40 (he's consistently in the 4.4s). Austin Gamble and Kevin Rojas are in the 220 range and they consistently run 4.5 40s. Glover isn't quite that fast, but he's 240 pounds and benches 400-plus. Again, they've got to learn, but they have FSU linebacker size and speed -- the FSU defense of the '90s. I can't wait to see what Kelby Brown, CJ France and Isaac Blakeney (6-6, 215 as a freshman) develop into.

    I know it's tough to say be patient after all these years, but it's coming -- the DB will be ACC quality very soon. The LBs will be the class of the league very soon. The WRs are already ACC quality. Renfree is going to be a stud for the next three years. The OL is almost there -- the four redshirt freshmen and the two that are redshirting this year (Tomlison and Cofield) are all ACC quality size and strength and agility.

    Still work to the be done on the DL, although a lot of promise at the end. We'll have to see if Ingram, Sink, Hood and/or Bryant are ACC-quality tackles.

    But it's coming ... don't doubt it.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    For anyone wanting to put faces to some posters' names, check here for a bunch of shots from yesterday.
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...d=330893144629
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  15. #35
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    All I can say is be patient. The young guys DO have BCS size and speed...What they don't have is experience. Chris Rwabukamba is playing because he's a smart experienced back, but he does not have top-level ACC physical gifts. The new guys do and when they develop later this year or the next, you see a secondary that's as big and has fast as any on the ACC.
    This season has been described as a transition year where we are between the players Coach Cutcliffe inherited and those he recruited. The team is young and this season is going to be frustrating at times. I present as Exhibit A the angst over the secondary's performance in yesterday's win.

    I agree with OF and others in the thread that us Duke fans are going to have to have patience this season. There is certainly going to be a lot to be excited about (Renfree/Vernon/Varner for starters and Scott/Snead hopefully) and there will be lots to fret about (secondary). In the end, it is important that the team show progress toward developing into an ACC and BCS contender, and that progress cannot be graded by wins and losses exclusively. Duke fans are going to have to utilize qualitative analysis to truly understand the degree we are progressing. There is more to progress than the number of wins recorded in a season.

    But, and this is a big but, I still fully expect this team to win at least six games. Next week at Wake Forest will go a long way toward demonstrating if my expectations are realistic.

    Finally, in regard to Connette, I agree with Coach Cutcliffe's decision to play him. Coach Cutcliffe is a QB maestro so it is really folly to disagree with his decisions in that area.
    Bob Green

  16. #36
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    ninety minutes west of Cameron

    A small point

    Can we stop talking about needing BCS-caliber players? We are in the FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision), aka Division I. Elon is in the BCS (Bowl Championship Subdivision), aka Division I-AA.

    FWIW, our corners have a bit of work to get up to BCS level, much less FBS level.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlindevildog91 View Post
    Can we stop talking about needing BCS-caliber players? We are in the FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision), aka Division I. Elon is in the BCS (Bowl Championship Subdivision), aka Division I-AA.

    FWIW, our corners have a bit of work to get up to BCS level, much less FBS level.
    No, Elon is FCS (Football Championship Subdivision). Bowls have absolutely nothing to do with Elon's division of play. BCS (Bowl Championship Series) is the combination of the 4 major bowls and the championship game for the FBS teams. Saying BCS level players means that we want players ready to compete in the BCS conferences (Big Ten, Big East, ACC, Big 12, SEC, and Pac 10).

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    No, Elon is FCS (Football Championship Subdivision). Bowls have absolutely nothing to do with Elon's division of play. BCS (Bowl Championship Series) is the combination of the 4 major bowls and the championship game for the FBS teams. Saying BCS level players means that we want players ready to compete in the BCS conferences (Big Ten, Big East, ACC, Big 12, SEC, and Pac 10).
    Sorry. Got in too late from the game to have any oxygen to my brain today. I'm unfortunately far too familiar to the pundits talking about BCS and how screwy it is. I guess I'm just trying to forget how messed up the Div I championship system is.

  19. #39
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    Connette and the run game

    Some friends and I were thinking about it, and one idea we passed around regarding Connette is that we gave Wake just a little bit of film for them to have to fret over this week. Surely their staff went into the film room Friday and was just thinking about Renfree and our explosive passing game, but now they have to get a game plan together for the added freshman running ability of Snead AND Connette. A potential headache, I say. Connette is going to be a special player, and if Renfree plays like he did yesterday, he likely won't be around his full 5 years (this is year 3). Connette may get 2 full years in the starting role, if we're being optimistic about Renfree.

  20. #40
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    Olympic Fan, you're not helping my situation at all I must say. With my enthusiasm for Duke football this season already close to being off the charts, your positive and confidence inspiring post re:some of our more recent additions at the linebacker and cornerback positions is just like throwing gasoline on a fire . That's very encouraging and great to hear. Add one more reason why I should be even more optimistic about the future of Duke football.

    Chris, enjoyed seeing the photos from yesterday. Hopefully my sons will have fond memories of Dad taking them to Duke games (just as I do of mine when he did the same for me all those years ago.) I really like the picture of Cut high fiving fans along the route of the Devil Walk.

    Bob, I can only speak for myself but believe me, after being a Duke fan for 40+ years I'm very patient when it comes to Duke football. I confess that like Ozzie, I'm the eternal optimist. I think (or at least hope) that most true Duke football fans will be patient with Coach Cutcliffe and the team knowing full well what we've been through the last few decades. I realize that the program was down for so many years that it'll (still) take some time to recover and for the patient to be pronounced "strong and healthy". But, we are obviously already seeing progress in so many areas - recruiting, results on the field compared to recent head coaches, facilities improvements, and the list goes on. I for one am very excited about the future of Duke football, will remain patient, and will thoroughly enjoy watching as this team (and future teams) mature and improve. Bring on the Demon Deacs - I believe we're ready for the next challenge.

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