The new bathrooms can wait . . .

[devil84]

I think today was a confluence of a lot of factors. It was extremely humid and hot today, far more humid and substantially hotter than it has been for the past several weeks, so people might have felt that it wouldn't be so hot (I didn't think it'd be that bad!). The high humidity makes it difficult for a body to cool itself through sweating, which is a huge problem for heat exhaustion, even if properly hydrated.

People were hydrating, but at $3 minimum per beverage, some may have wanted to save the money for the well over $4/gallon gas gouging prices thanks to Ike on the ride home.

Concessions ran out of water in the fourth quarter (according to other messages), but many people were going down in the second quarter. As far as ordering extra water: I routinely work the concession stands at the Durham Bulls for one of my non-profit groups as a fundraiser. I can tell you that there is generally limited cubic feet of storage to stock up for more than one or two games (and the Bulls tops out at 5K fans or so; storage for 30K fans has got to be enormous). Even if the concessions could store everything they desired, sometimes the supplier doesn't deliver nearly the quantity that was ordered. As far as this year at Wallace Wade is concerned, I've been thrilled that I can still get a barbeque sandwich in the second quarter -- I wasn't able to do that last year, so they have done better on being prepared for large crowds.

So many people were wearing blue (which I LOVE), but the dark color absorbs heat whereas a light colored shirt reflects more/absorbs less. A white-out might have helped a little. (Only a little.)

So many people succumbed to the heat that EMS was overwhelmed. Even if every fan with Red Cross First Aid training sprang into action, we still probably wouldn't have had enough trained personnel (I have the training but I was busy helping my mom).

I sat right next to my mom, and watched her drink a nearly a quart of lemonade, then she had a bottle of water that she started on. I was monitoring her fluid intake (I also ran a band camp this summer for high school kids and monitor their after school rehearsals, so I'm quite familiar with pushing hydration in the heat). She had no alcohol and has no major health conditions that present a higher risk for heat exhaustion. She was even wearing a light colored shirt (I almost fussed at her when I saw her to change into a blue shirt and I'm glad I didn't). She's a "good weather" football fan, too -- meaning that the weather must be not too hot, not too cold, and not rainy for her to attend. To my knowledge, she's never suffered an episode like this.

If Duke doesn't call their EMS contractor asking questions and contracting for more help, I'm certain that the EMS workers will note to their bosses that they would not like to do a game like this again, and the EMS contractors will note the situation to Duke and request that Duke hire more workers. I'm sure that Duke Concessions will hear from the volunteer organizations that staff the stands that they lost income for their non-profit because they ran out of water and other concessions, if Duke hasn't already figured out that they've lost revenue (in addition to the public safety issue of running out of water).

And now that we've complained about the heat, we'll anger the Weather Gods (cousins of the Weaux Gods), and we've ensured ourselves that we'll be suffering from frostbite for the last few games -- but plenty of cold water will be available just to spite us.

Back to being serious...I just don't know that anyone, either Duke or the individual fans that succumbed to the head, could really have planned that we'd have a larger crowd than we've had in years on an abnormally hot and humid September day... Well, I just think it's pointless to point fingers with definitive reasons as to who was negligent because there were just too many factors to consider. Some fans even did everything right and still succumbed to the heat.

[BigDuke6]

My brother and I are off duty firemen and paramedics. We missed the game from the second quarter on. There were four times as many EMS service people than normally scheduled and they called in two crews of firemen from local stations to assist as well. That's a lot of help but it wasn't enough because of the number of people needing assistance. I'm sorry we couldn't get to everybody in a timely manner or it seemed like we were not prepared. I did my best and helped out as many as I could. It was a rough day on everybody.

[Uncle Drew]

I wasn't there, but I was outside and know how miserable it was all over the area. That being said I can understand onlooker frustration when they saw fans dropping like flies. Having been married to a nurse I can say when there are epidemic or emergency situations, health care individuals and systems get overloaded. Everyone who is sick / hurt wants their discomfort to go away as fast as possible. Things can actually get pretty nasty for the caregivers when people get frustrated about having to wait to get the attention they think they deserve. We as human beings are sometimes so blinded by our own suffering or the suffering of a loved one we neglect to see the suffering of many around us. I honestly hope anyone and everyone in need of medical attention got it and is feeling better today. But I also know the ones who were there were probably doing the best they could and are probably worn out from it today. I must agree with other posters night games in September make a lot more sense.

[doctorhook]

BigDuke6,

Thank you for your help yesterday. I was not part of the medical teams, but based on what I observed, I assumed your experience was unfortunately the norm for the day. It just bothers me that when a situation like this occurs, people immediately find fault even when those finding fault have no knowledge of the facts. The immediate response by some is " lawsuit " even to the point of camera documentation to support the claim of the "victim". Again, thank you for doing your best in a bad environment.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

My brother and I are off duty firemen and paramedics. We missed the game from the second quarter on. There were four times as many EMS service people than normally scheduled and they called in two crews of firemen from local stations to assist as well. That's a lot of help but it wasn't enough because of the number of people needing assistance. I'm sorry we couldn't get to everybody in a timely manner or it seemed like we were not prepared. I did my best and helped out as many as I could. It was a rough day on everybody.

Thanks for all you did and thanks for your input here, BigDuke. Bless your heart.
Love, Ima

[Carlos]

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason ESPNU couldn't schedule a night game? Right now it seems like they're just showing classic games. I guess because its tougher to compete for viewers with the late night games like the USC-OSU game, but why not schedule for an 8:00 tv time?

Yes indeed ESPNU could schedule a night game. In this case it was called Virginia at Connecticut which, even with Virginia having a down year, is still likely more of a draw than Duke-Navy. You don't get the prime time games (or the 3:30 games) until you're a stronger program.

Given the information that BigDuke6 shared I don't think you can fault Duke for not having enough personnel on hand. However, Duke certainly could have -

• Anticipated the need for more water when the forecast called for 95 degrees and a dew point of 70. Running out of water at any point in the game was poor planning.
• Had the PA announcer make frequent reminders to the fans to hydrate and to announce the locations of any public water fountains.
• Put up a few of those misting tents around the concourse.

[Uncle Drew]

Yes indeed ESPNU could schedule a night game. In this case it was called Virginia at Connecticut which, even with Virginia having a down year, is still likely more of a draw than Duke-Navy. You don't get the prime time games (or the 3:30 games) until you're a stronger program.

Given the information that BigDuke6 shared I don't think you can fault Duke for not having enough personnel on hand. However, Duke certainly could have -

• Anticipated the need for more water when the forecast called for 95 degrees and a dew point of 70. Running out of water at any point in the game was poor planning.
• Had the PA announcer make frequent reminders to the fans to hydrate and to announce the locations of any public water fountains.
• Put up a few of those misting tents around the concourse.

Okay someone has already stated the concessions only has X amount of storage area for bottled water. Perhaps in the future they need to look into getting more storage BUT you just pointed out something huge...PUBLIC WATER FOUNTAINS. I'm sorry, but at what point did the water we drink have to come out of a bottle? The tap stuff with flouride is even better for your teeth for that matter. If I was forced to buy a bottle of water (I refuse to because the next thing they will charge us for is air) I would refill it with tap anyway.

It's not like I don't have sympathy for those suffering from dehydration / heat stroke. That stuff hits fast and makes a human feel miserable. But having the announcer tell everyone to drink fluids? Someone has to tell you on an extremely hot and humid day to rehydrate as much as you can? I guess it can't hurt, and if nothing else would spare Duke of lawsuits some people want to file. Hey, we announced several times it was hot and you need to drink water, but you didn't listen. (Sue first ask questions later society.)

Me thinks shade would be a huge help. Then again when you pay cash to see a game you want to see it. Taking a break to walk back to the top to sit under a tent for a few minutes and missing out on the game would irk quite a few people. (But it sure beats having heat stroke!) Then again the climb alone to the tents is apt to overheat a person even worse. I guess it just kind of bugs me someone would imply Duke is somehow at fault for people not taking care of themselves. Sure I guess if Duke had known people were going to be falling out all over the stadium they could have gotten more medical help. But like the people who did suffer heat stroke they didn't plan on overheating and I'm pretty sure Duke didn't plan on it either. Yesterday was a one in a decade (or more) kind of day for football. If you had the amount of medical help needed for yesterday at every game for the next ten years odds are very good they wouldn't be needed to that same degree.

As for prime time games, well it wasn't on my TV and had the game been in the evening I could have gone. I mean if it's going to actually be on Raycom, ABC or REGULAR ESPN etc. I could see the justification. But then my opinion doesn't matter any more than the next person. Personally IMO night gaves have more of an electricity to them, the turnout seems better and nobody has to worry about sunscreen or shade.

[Carlos]

Latta - I'm not implying that Duke is somehow at fault for people not taking care of themselves. I'm merely offering up some thoughts that may have prevented people from suffering from heat stroke in the first place.

I would disagree with you when you state that Duke didn't anticipate people suffering from heat stroke since they clearly staffed up on EMS people as indicated by a previous poster. So if you know that the conditions are there then why not take extra steps to prevent some of medical problems rather than just staff up to treat the problems after the occur?

The concessions may only have X amount of space for storage, but certainly you could find room somewhere near the stadium to store some extra water. How many bottles of water could you store on the concourse in Cameron? Load up a few of those golf carts and have them shuttle water back to the concessions in Wade.

As for the choice between a night game and a TV game - it's a no-brainer, regardless of the heat. Say Duke did decline to move the game time to noon. How likely will it be that TV networks will look to work with Duke on future football games? How interested will out of conference opponents be to schedule games with Duke knowing that they stand an even lesser chance of being on TV than they would by scheduling a game against a team of similar quality? How interested will recruits be to come to a school that may not ever be on TV?

Until Duke football reaches the level of Duke basketball - where the quality of the program dictates the better time slots - they're going to have to accept less than ideal game times if they want to be on TV.

[CathyCA]

BigDuke6,

Thank you for your help yesterday. I was not part of the medical teams, but based on what I observed, I assumed your experience was unfortunately the norm for the day. It just bothers me that when a situation like this occurs, people immediately find fault even when those finding fault have no knowledge of the facts. The immediate response by some is " lawsuit " even to the point of camera documentation to support the claim of the "victim". Again, thank you for doing your best in a bad environment.

Is this a personal attack on me? It feels that way.

Are you saying that I shouldn't have taken pictures? Are you saying that I shouldn't have pointed out the obvious?

No, I didn't have knowledge of the global situation in WW. All I had knowledge of was the situation that was unfolding in front of me. I didn't know if this man had suffered a heart attack or not. The slow response concerned me. If you or your parent had been the victim, wouldn't you have wanted a quicker response?

I think that the obvious remedy is to hold September games at night.

[Raleighfan]

It was hot today, no question. But it was definitely warmer at a game or two last year. I'm not sure why so many more people were being affected by the heat today, but there's no question that people were going down all over the stadium.

I'm not sure that this large a number of people needing help could be anticipated by the university.

I've been to practically all Duke home FB games for the last 26 years and I truly cannot recall that the temp at game time was ever in the 90's as it was yesterday. I think perception and memory can play tricks on us, but I cannot recall the heat being so brutal in the past. Ha, even 80 degrees with the sun beating on you can seem pretty hot and sticky in WW. Altho I don't have a history of fainting, I knew I wasn't in a good place when I started feeling light-headed and had no energy to applaud/cheer for the team. FWIW, I was wearing a wide-brimmed hat and had my little portable fan with me. Maybe I should thank the toddler who kept kicking my seatback for keeping me conscious. At any rate, I myself got to a shady place during the second quarter; I didn't want to push my luck by continuing to stay in my seat. There were already lots of people in that shady place...sr. citizens and young kids. I'm sorry to hear that there were so many more who apparently were worse off than we were. I salute the players and band members in full dress uniform...guess they're in better shape to tolerate the heat.

Stupid question: games are delayed because of lightning; are they ever delayed because of heat? I doubt it, even though both are dangerous.

[throatybeard]

I've been to practically all Duke home FB games for the last 26 years and I truly cannot recall that the temp at game time was ever in the 90's as it was yesterday.

It's happened as recently as the VMI game a couple years ago. There was a Virginia game in the late 90s. There are probably several others I'm forgetting.

[doctorhook]

Cathy,

I do not know you personally therefore I would not call my comments a personal attack. I am simply saying that I find it discouraging that in many situations, people focus on the legal implications of the situation. Rather than taking photographs, I would have run to the nearest aid station/EMS person. I do not think it would occur to me to take pictures to document the event in case of legal action. I also find it discouraging when people jump to conclusions and criticize without knowing the facts. In this scenario, what was so obvious, aside from the fact that the man needed help and that the EMS was not there as quickly as was optimal? I certainly agree with your remedy and obviously you are free to take as many pictures as you choose.

[allenmurray]

Rather than taking photographs, I would have run to the nearest aid station/EMS person. .

Probably a dozen people had already done so - I doubt number 13 would have made a difference.

[doctorhook]

Allen,

If 12 people had already attempted to find the EMS and they did not arrive quickly, one would assume that they were busy and caring for another patient. It is certainly possible that they were not responding properly, but based on the comments of BigDuke6 that does not appear to be the case.

[phaedrus]

I've never figured how lawsuits help in issues like this. If the judge held the guilty party for only what they were responsible for (in this case, medical expenses maybe) then I would be fine with them. Now they are little more than cash grabs for unscrupulous attorneys.

Considering cash can only be awarded by a jury of YOUR peers, it's hard to justify calling it a "cash grab". As unscrupulous as attorneys may come, they're not the ones handing out punitive awards.

[365Duke]

cathy, deac, ozzie, myself, and maybe a couple of others were all sitting within 10 feet of each other and did not know it. Lets figure out a system that we can recognize each other for the Va. game.

Hope all is well with the gentleman who passed out. Although it was strange to me that a Durham PD officer asked me to make a path for the stretcher when it comes down. I said I would gladly get out of the way, and then she asked if I would go down 2 rows and ask them to move. In which I replied , "uh, you are wearing the uniform, can't you ask them". I'm sorry, I would have done it, but don't you think that a uniformed officer would be better for the job, than a soaking wet fan to walk down and say "hey, get out of the way"?

Weird

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think given the circumstances people would recognize what was happening and gladly move regardless of if you had a uniform.
I will say one thing about the police, I noticed several of them walking in the stands, something I had not seen before in the previous games. In hind sight, I can only assume they were actually looking for signs of people in distress as opposed to people breaking the law. If that was the case, they should be commended, looking for problems before they became worse.

[CathyCA]

cathy, deac, ozzie, myself, and maybe a couple of others were all sitting within 10 feet of each other and did not know it. Lets figure out a system that we can recognize each other for the Va. game.

Yup. CathyCA, Ozzie, and Allenmurray were all sitting in section 27 when the gentleman suffered the episode. After the second half, Devildeac came down and sat with Ozzie for a while.

365Duke, here's the system for recognizing us: Go to the OTB. Click on the thread entitled "Brunchgate." I posted a picture of the DBR group taken at our tailgate prior to Saturday's game.

Seriously, I would love to say hi to you at the VA game. Maybe you would like to join us for our next tailgate? We have a congenial group of DBR regulars who meet up prior to the games. I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know each of them in person, turning our online friendships into real-life friendships.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

cathy, deac, ozzie, myself, and maybe a couple of others were all sitting within 10 feet of each other and did not know it. Lets figure out a system that we can recognize each other for the Va. game.

I met Cathy 2 weeks ago and the JMU game, DevilDeac is a long time friend and classmate (1976), and actually had come to talk with me from his seat elsewhere, and I met Allen earlier Saturday when he joined our morning tailgate. Next tailgate is in 2 weeks before the Virginia game - details to be worked out.

[Uncle Drew]

Latta - I'm not implying that Duke is somehow at fault for people not taking care of themselves. I'm merely offering up some thoughts that may have prevented people from suffering from heat stroke in the first place.

I would disagree with you when you state that Duke didn't anticipate people suffering from heat stroke since they clearly staffed up on EMS people as indicated by a previous poster. So if you know that the conditions are there then why not take extra steps to prevent some of medical problems rather than just staff up to treat the problems after the occur?

The concessions may only have X amount of space for storage, but certainly you could find room somewhere near the stadium to store some extra water. How many bottles of water could you store on the concourse in Cameron? Load up a few of those golf carts and have them shuttle water back to the concessions in Wade.

As for the choice between a night game and a TV game - it's a no-brainer, regardless of the heat. Say Duke did decline to move the game time to noon. How likely will it be that TV networks will look to work with Duke on future football games? How interested will out of conference opponents be to schedule games with Duke knowing that they stand an even lesser chance of being on TV than they would by scheduling a game against a team of similar quality? How interested will recruits be to come to a school that may not ever be on TV?

Until Duke football reaches the level of Duke basketball - where the quality of the program dictates the better time slots - they're going to have to accept less than ideal game times if they want to be on TV.

First I appologize for coming off negative Carlos. If nothing else you were offering up possible solutions instead of just complaining and pointing out negatives. Pointing out soultions, even ones that seem obvious to those of us with common sense is progressive. I think the thing that irritated me was the idea Duke could be held accountable in a court of law for this or that. The forecast for yesterdays game was for HOT and humid, and I don't think anyone realized (perhaps since the calender read September) it was going to be THAT hot and THAT humid. But the implication of legal grounds to me seemed about as fair as a guy getting frostbite for showing up to a game in Buffalo in January, then trying to sue the Bills.