John Wall Recruitment

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I would in no way "bash" Coach K for losing out on the kid, but it would be a frustrating recurring theme we have seen the past 4 years or so in losing big time recruits. I just don't know why it wasn't a very high priority for Coach K to get a PG after Boynton decided to go to Florida. It seemed like he just said "I guess we'll see if Wall is interested, if not, oh well." Meanwhile, Calipari goes to UK knowing he doesn't have a PG and goes ruthlessly after Wall and Bledsoe.
The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall. You can not get through the ACC and certainly not March without a solid backcourt and PG and without Wall, we have two unproven and inconsistent guards in EWill and Nolan and a sharpshooter in Scheyer, that's it. Losing your most prolific athlete, scorer, and creator in Henderson without somehow replacing it is tough to overcome.

[rotogod00]

"The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall."

personally, i am not (speaking with some sense of realism). shouldn't say i'm not excited. just not overly optimistic.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall.

How about because we are Duke fans. I'm excited every year we play, and we haven't had Wall any of the other 30+ years I've been following us.

[roywhite]

"The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall."

personally, i am not (speaking with some sense of realism)

There are other teams to follow.

Explore your alternatives.

[rotogod00]

There are other teams to follow.

Explore your alternatives.

revised my post. not being excited is not correct. not overly optimistic is more appropriate

[NYDukie]

Yes, you are correct that is pretty much what we do and look at where we have ended up. I would also say Scheyer, G and Singler would be better than what they had. Also, almost every game Duke had a guy that would step up and be that fourth scorer in either, Thomas, Zoubek, Smith or Williams. One of them would get 15 or more points a game while the other 3 contirbuted in their usual ways.

Too me, Duke looks like a option for a national championship over Kentucky, if I were John Wall.

Depending on whom comes back, it will be an interesting decision. Neither cupboard is bare, even if those who declared don't come back. For Duke there will be Singler and Scheyer as the main cogs with the continued development of EWill and Smith along with the upside of MPI, MPII and Kelly as an allure to Wall. For UK, there is a much anticipated freshman class coming in and Wall wanting to play Cal whom he seems to have wanted to play for initially at Memphis before his departure. I would say Duke's parts may be a bit better because of a proven core but then again, they lack a true returning post presence whereas UK brings in two big time post recruits. MP II is our post recruit but he seems more a hybrid inside/out mix. In the end, I can't definitively say either would be a bad decision for Wall, basketball wise.

Also, for anyone wondering if Bledsoe and Wall could or would want to play together in the same backcourt, here is a link I fell into in which Bledsoe states he would have no problem playing together with Wall. Take it and the sites validity with a grain of salt I suppose.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/05/b...ead-to-oregon/

[sagegrouse]

I would in no way "bash" Coach K for losing out on the kid, but it would be a frustrating recurring theme we have seen the past 4 years or so in losing big time recruits.

I know you always regret the one that got away, but -- even so -- would you describe the following recruits from the last four recruiting classes as chopped liver?

McRoberts
Singler
Henderson
Scheyer
Nolan
EWill
LT

I mean, Carolina was truly lucky that Hansbrough, who was ranked below McBob, was so well-suited for the college game and was willing to stay four years and that Lawson, who was not as highly regarded as many other recruits, proved to be a stud.

Seriously, if we get three recruits every year who are in the top 30 and that K thinks are a good fit for his team, we are going to be a superb program. Does it really matter whether we recruit only three players and get them all or recruit ten players and get only three?

sagegrouse

[Sobriquet]

I can assure you that Duke fans will be less thrilled about Wall joining UNC than UNC fans thought's regading Wall joining Duke because of
a) UNC has beaten Duke at Cameron 4 times in a row and has complete bragging rights right now
b) UNC hasn't recruited Wall as hard as DUke
c) UNC just won the national championship and, although they would love another, they are probably content on just making the tourney next year which will most likely happen

UNC isn't going to overflow their blogs with cries of "dammit, I hate Duke" if Wall comes here. If UNC gets Wall, I guarantee we will be ending our posts with "dammit, I hate UNC"

A). UNC hates Duke in a way that Duke does not hate UNC. Many of Duke's fans leave the state upon graduation. UNC's fans ARE the state. For them it is about locals vs outsiders, southerners vs Yankees. UNC will never be content with last year's success. They would like to beat Duke in CIS forever.
B) Wall has said that UNC was his dream school. Remember the consternation here when similiar declarations from Monroe and Boynton proved worthless? In North Carolina it is worse. This would be an in state player, close enough to bike to UNC's campus, choosing the State's No. 1 Villian (Duke/K) over the "good guy." Further, Wall appears to be a recruit that Roy simply had to reach out and pick up. He hasn't even extended that modicum of effort.
C) Are you stoned? Right now the biggest stick in UNC's Craw is that K repeated as NC, and UNC (ie Dean) never accomplished this feat. Also, the fact that K has more titles than any 1 UNC coach. That eats at them. UNC fans will never be fully happy until they can repeat. Which isn't outside the realm of possibility next year. If Drew can play solid at the PG, UNC COULD win the title next year. It is a long shot, but it is possible. Make the NCAAs? UNC is a top 10 team next year, right now. Yes, they lost a lot. They were so talented that they still have a lot. And they got a good recruiting class. Wall would put them in the top 2, and it would let them hopefully exercise any demons they have about Roy being guilted into comming home to UNC and any lingering feelings of love Roy has for KU.

Wall is not just any recruit. It is not just any recruit who considered UNC their dream school. In the 90s that was every SG or WF in the nation because of Mike Jordan. Wall is the number 1 player, who grew up in N freaking C, who happens to play the one position where UNC is weakest next year. A position that happens to be integral to Roy's entire offensive system.

Further, UNC has delighted in Duke's recent lack luster performance. They would like that to continue. If K gets Wall, Duke will be back. It would probably be the first trickle in a flood of recruits that would vault Duke back into the elite teams in the nation, right up there with UNC.

Sure, this board will melt down if Wall chooses UNC.

Sure, the UNC blogs have been relatively quiet on the subject. That was when Wall seemed to be a heavy KY lean. With the Bledsoe decision, that no longer seems to be the case. Pro-UNC journalists, who have grasped this firmly in the last week, have been on a crusade to get Wall to ABD. This was ignored by UNC fans basking in the NC, who were confidant he was KY bound. Soon, they will wake up to the fact that Duke has a legitimate chance to get Wall, and that with Wall Duke is a front-runner for the NC. The vitriol is forthcomming. Wall would become public enemy number 1, instantly. A FF run with Wall at the PG, combined with an early round flameout when Drew gets victimized by some PG at a middling school, would have UNC fans howling at Roy.

Wall, come to Duke. Everybody secretly loves the villians the most. Not here in NC, obv. But the rest of the nation. And when you excell in that pressure cooker, and you will excell, every NBA team in the country will be gagging for you. There will be no doubts about your abilities as a baller, a leader, or a man. They will know that no opposing player or arena will get in your head.

Wall, come, to the dark side. Being Bad is more fun in the end.

[Kedsy]

Wall, come, to the dark side. Being Bad is more fun in the end.

Do you really think John Wall is reading your posts?

Besides, everybody knows UNC is the dark side.

[sagegrouse]

A). UNC hates Duke in a way that Duke does not hate UNC. Many of Duke's fans leave the state upon graduation. UNC's fans ARE the state. For them it is about locals vs outsiders, southerners vs Yankees. UNC will never be content with last year's success. They would like to beat Duke in CIS forever.

As one who can take an elevated view of these proceedings (the Sage Grouse's personal habitat is at 7,000 feet), I believe you are talking about the fan environment in the state of North Carolina. Typically, the most obnoxious fans in any state that support the state U. (esp. in Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, and North Carolina) have only set foot on campus to go to the football stadium or basketball arena and are not alumni in any sense of the word.

Why does this matter? Those people are only in NC, and when you cross the border, they mysteriously disappear. The UNC grads I know in Colorado and elsewhere seem to masquerade, at least in my presence, as decent folk and friendly rivals.

sagegrouse

[SilkyJ]

Too me, Duke looks like a option for a national championship over Kentucky, if I were John Wall.

Do you think John Wall really cares about a national championship. this is a BUSINESS decision, to prepare him for the NBA. Winning a NC probably means being on a team with 3-5 other potential NBA draft picks, which means less shots for him and less opportunity to showcase his talent. So maybe that actually hurts our chances of landing him.

[roywhite]

I know you always regret the one that got away, but -- even so -- would you describe the following recruits from the last four recruiting classes as chopped liver?

McRoberts
Singler
Henderson
Scheyer
Nolan
EWill
LT

I mean, Carolina was truly lucky that Hansbrough, who was ranked below McBob, was so well-suited for the college game and was willing to stay four years and that Lawson, who was not as highly regarded as many other recruits, proved to be a stud.
Seriously, if we get three recruits every year who are in the top 30 and that K thinks are a good fit for his team, we are going to be a superb program. Does it really matter whether we recruit only three players and get them all or recruit ten players and get only three?

sagegrouse

Your overall point of good fortune factoring in is true. I'll take issue with your characterization of Lawson, who arrived as a highly-touted recruit. The good fortune there was that he stayed for 3 years (and got better) whereas as Michael Conley, another talented PG in that class, for example, went pro after his freshman year at Ohio State. As you say, Hansbrough turned out to be a terrific 4-year player, and Green and Ellington also stayed one year more than they might have preferred, making the 2009 team very powerful and experienced.

One of the keys seems to be maintaining a talented nucleus for two or three years. UConn, for example, seems to fall off sharply in their rebuilding years, but manage to put together a very good nucleus for a time and challenge for championships every few years.

[-jk]

Let's all calm down, folks. Attack the post, not the poster.

thanks,

-jk

[Sobriquet]

I know you always regret the one that got away, but -- even so -- would you describe the following recruits from the last four recruiting classes as chopped liver?

McRoberts
Singler
Henderson
Scheyer
Nolan
EWill
LT

I mean, Carolina was truly lucky that Hansbrough, who was ranked below McBob, was so well-suited for the college game and was willing to stay four years and that Lawson, who was not as highly regarded as many other recruits, proved to be a stud.

Seriously, if we get three recruits every year who are in the top 30 and that K thinks are a good fit for his team, we are going to be a superb program. Does it really matter whether we recruit only three players and get them all or recruit ten players and get only three?

sagegrouse

Yeah, Duke's 2005 class was a complete disaster. It hamstrung us for years to come. Only 2 of the class graduated from Duke, and virtually each player was a dissappointment.

UNC did get lucky with Hans. He was ideally suited for College ball, and he stayed four years, mainly because his family had no financial hardships, at all. Them's the breaks.

But, with regards to Lawson, Jigga Say What???!!!!

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75...cfg=bb&yr=2006

That is a link to Scout's overal ratings for the 06 recruiting Class. They list by position rather than overall rank, but take a look.

Lawson: Number 1 pg, absolutely correct.
Ellington: Number 1 sg. Not so much, but pretty darn good by the end of last year.
Wright: Number 1 pf. Left before he really did anything.

Lawson did not over achieve. He did exactly what everybody thought he would do. Be a stud and win an NC. It happened a year or two late, but it happened. I would have preferred a NC his frosh or soph year cause Hans woud have left, preserving JJ's record and eroding Han's legacy at UNC.

We got the No. 1 PG and No. 1 Pf in 2005 in Paulus and McBob.

UNC ended up with Lawson (06) and Hans. Whew.

As lackluster as the team has been the last couple of years, I do have to applaud K. Coaching regimes have collapsed due to far smaller recruiting busts than the 05 class. It was a bust at every single position, relative to their HS ranking, both as a group and their individual HS ranking.

McRoberts: Bust, relatively speeking
Singler: Great Player, but not yet an elite player
Henderson: Stud. Best of Luck
Scheyer: Solid to great player, but not a star
Nolan: Not yet living up to expectations.
EWill: Tons of potential, but he has a lot of work to do on his game.
LT: Not the player we hoped for, as yet.

The above list looked great on paper and in the recruiting services. But they have yet to produce anything at the college level. Sure, the services missed on all those players. But Roy wasn't ever even remotely interested in most of them (maybe G?). How did he see what K didn't?

[BlueinBlo]

Do you think John Wall really cares about a national championship. this is a BUSINESS decision, to prepare him for the NBA. Winning a NC probably means being on a team with 3-5 other potential NBA draft picks, which means less shots for him and less opportunity to showcase his talent. So maybe that actually hurts our chances of landing him.

But you just go ahead and bash coach K if we dont get him since you clearly know so much.

I think he cares about winning, who doesn't. If he cared so much about money, he would be playing in Europe next year.

To be the best, you have to beat the best. Out performing those other draft picks will go a lot further than being a crappy team and tearing it up, that's why Seth Curry transferred schools.

[stickdog]

Who knows what Meeks and PP do, but who is to say Cal wouldn't go w/ a 2 PG or 3 guard alignment? It already seems that most teams don't have a traditional lineup and start 3 guards, though it tends to be with two guards more of a off guard mold. Cal plays a full throttle attack game as it is, especially on the defensive end and to have both Bledsoe and Wall pressure the ball could be explosive. I'm of the glass if half full thinking regarding Duke's recruiting but to dismiss Wall to UK because of Bledsoe committing is a bit premature in my eyes. For the record I have soured on the Wall recruitment because of various issues involving Wall and Co. and I still believe we are in the mix until the end but Bledsoe's decision changes nothing in my eyes regarding Duke's chances.

Both Wall and Bledsoe are pass first penetrators. Neither player is proficient from beyond the arc. Both players are wizards with the ball.

Name the last time two top 5 point guards from the same class committed to the same college.

It's one thing to say that UK is not out of the battle. It's another thing completely to say that taking a commitment from the second best available PG has no bearing on the decision of the best available PG.

[gethlives]

Iyour non-graduate fans are a bunch of racist, anti-semitic hill-billies.

As a non-graduate of Carolina, who does happen to be a fan of the Tar Heels, I think I will choose to take offense at your characterization.

I have no doubt that there are racist, anti-Semitic Carolina fans. I have no doubt that there are racist anti-Semitic Duke fans as well.

I know you are trying to be funny here--but once again folks who try to look for reasons on why Carolina fans hate Duke or vice versa are missing the point. We hate Duke simply because you are Duke, and as much as we try to come up with reasons why, it comes down to that. And I imagine the same is true for you all about hating Carolina.

Really this whole tangent is not worthy of this Board.

[Sobriquet]

Do you really think John Wall is reading your posts?

Besides, everybody knows UNC is the dark side.

I include my little bon mot on the off chance he reads my posts. You never know.

I personally would peruse sites like this if I or my kid were a top notch player. Just in case.

As for being villians, we are. We just need to accept it. Duke is a private school full of smart kids. Not the type of private school for kids too dumb to get into the state school. The state of North Carolina is tremendously proud of Chapel Hill. It is one of the top universities in the country. We have an on going feud with Georgia about which state school was the first such university. (UGA was chartered first, UNC was operating first) That debate shows no signs of ending.

Duke is full of kids too smart to go to any state school in the nation. Our school is populated by the nerds that most state school goons beat up in HS (aka the glory years). Most Duke grads have their best years ahead of them. Most public school fans have already had their best years. Not necessarily the alums of the state schools, but most state school fans have no association with the state university other than taxes and fandom.

Every fan of every public school hates Duke. Not EVERY fan, but 98% or better.

We at Duke need to embrace this role. Heck, its a lot of fun. When I wear my Duke hat, and get ribbed by some UNC fan, I ask when they graduated from Chapel Hill. When they say they didn't actually go there, I respond with a comment about how they aren't real fans and their opinions don't matter. Usually while sneering (I am big enough to get away with it).

Me being nice isn't going to change their opinion.

We will never convince our haters that we are good guys. Our winning, our recruiting the right types of players (and don't think every UNC fan doesn't know in their Heart of Hearts that Rasheed was anything but a thug), and our academic excellance mean nothing. Most of it is something those outside our fan base will never understand or accept, much less ever hope to achieve.

Lets just embrace our villany. The best stories have the best villians.

Die Hard? Alan Rick was a great Villian.
Harry Potter? He Who Shall Not Be Named.
Every Wold War II movie? The Nazis

And finally,

STAR WARS: Darth Vader. The man. Well, cyborg I guess. It was never really addressed. Sure, the rest of the movie was great. But that ominous, powerful, purely evil villian was the lynch pin. Most elite level athletes believe they are better than other people. They have to.

At Duke, John Wall won't even have to pretend otherwise.

Choose Duke.

[SupaDave]

I know, it doesn't make sense. I should clarify that the anti-semitism does not apply to the student body or alumnus base. But most of NC are UNC fans, and they did not go to school there. Much of your fanbase has no real connection to the school, other than supporting it with their tax dollars. Heck, they could barely spell UNC.

I was born and raised in rural NC, and those fans are more colorful (despite being uniformly white).

I apologize to any UNC grad or student who took my comment ammiss. But your non-graduate fans are a bunch of racist, anti-semitic hill-billies. I know. I grew up with them.

Duke's large Jewish population (which I loved. Those Jews knew how to feed a man who was visiting their kid.) is a source of consternation to many rural fans (which is a large part of the state).

Many of these fans talk about "New York" yankees at Duke. That is code for New York "jews" who are apparantly all going to Hades. I must have slept through that sermon (as usual).

I take HIGH offense to this and it sounds quite idiotic to be honest.

As a person born and raised in Durham, this post is just ludicrous. "Those jews"? Wow. I'm not even Jewish and I'm offended.

Do a lot of my high school friends like UNC? You betcha. Do a lot of them like Duke? Most definitely and I have just as many friends who graduated from both.

The rivalry is understood from both sides - they are yin and yang.

[SupaDave]

I include my little bon mot on the off chance he reads my posts. You never know.

I personally would peruse sites like this if I or my kid were a top notch player. Just in case.

As for being villians, we are. We just need to accept it. Duke is a private school full of smart kids. Not the type of private school for kids too dumb to get into the state school. The state of North Carolina is tremendously proud of Chapel Hill. It is one of the top universities in the country. We have an on going feud with Georgia about which state school was the first such university. (UGA was chartered first, UNC was operating first) That debate shows no signs of ending.

Duke is full of kids too smart to go to any state school in the nation. Our school is populated by the nerds that most state school goons beat up in HS (aka the glory years). Most Duke grads have their best years ahead of them. Most public school fans have already had their best years. Not necessarily the alums of the state schools, but most state school fans have no association with the state university other than taxes and fandom.

Every fan of every public school hates Duke. Not EVERY fan, but 98% or better.

We at Duke need to embrace this role. Heck, its a lot of fun. When I wear my Duke hat, and get ribbed by some UNC fan, I ask when they graduated from Chapel Hill. When they say they didn't actually go there, I respond with a comment about how they aren't real fans and their opinions don't matter. Usually while sneering (I am big enough to get away with it).

Me being nice isn't going to change their opinion.

We will never convince our haters that we are good guys. Our winning, our recruiting the right types of players (and don't think every UNC fan doesn't know in their Heart of Hearts that Rasheed was anything but a thug), and our academic excellance mean nothing. Most of it is something those outside our fan base will never understand or accept, much less ever hope to achieve.

Lets just embrace our villany. The best stories have the best villians.

Die Hard? Alan Rick was a great Villian.
Harry Potter? He Who Shall Not Be Named.
Every Wold War II movie? The Nazis

And finally,

STAR WARS: Darth Vader. The man. Well, cyborg I guess. It was never really addressed. Sure, the rest of the movie was great. But that ominous, powerful, purely evil villian was the lynch pin. Most elite level athletes believe they are better than other people. They have to.

At Duke, John Wall won't even have to pretend otherwise.

Choose Duke.

Are you kidding me? So going to Duke makes you a BETTER fan? You do realize we are reading this idiocy right? I know people that have held seats in CIS since BEFORE you were born - and none of them graduated from Duke.

However, just about every high school student in Durham, NC has graduated in yes - Cameron Indoor Stadium.

Are you on drugs? This post will never convince anyone that YOU'RE a good guy...