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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Paterno has released a statement saying that he will retire at the end of the season. Link.

    It is very short, but it indicates that he does not absolve himself of blame. I presume that more details on what he believes he did wrong will be forthcoming when he gives his next press conference. I am very curious as to what he will say.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by JamminJoe View Post
    I read about 4 pages, when I thought why is all the focus on Paterno? Just because he's a big football coach. Just to make the story even bigger? To make yourself feel morally superior to a famous coach (semi-jk). In the big picture, the authorities are going after the guys they should be going after, Sandusky and the 2 school officials. If you have so much self righteousness in you, sure go after the coach too.
    We get your point, but let's not be obtuse here. What's interesting or worthy of discussion about Sandusky at this point? If he's guilty, he's a monster. There's not much nuance there. And while the AD and administrator's alleged actions are up for grabs and not fully settled until more facts come out, if it turns out that they were as flatly callous as the initial allegations make it seem, there's not much nuance to their moral failure, either. They also aren't nationally known as the most powerful man on a campus of 40,000+ students, and Paterno, while famous for being the football coach, is also legendary for his reputation and moral standing, and has offered those things up publicly as the foundation of his successful football program. His role or lack thereof is infinitely more nuanced and interesting as a moral quandary. Sandusky was one of his right hand men for decades, so the interpersonal relationship and all that entails in the psychology of Paterno's actions here is fascinating. That he happens to be a household name is mostly coincidental. His position in all this is like a textbook discussion sample from an Ethics course.

    There's been very little self-righteousness or rush to judgment in this thread, and no indications of grudges or vindictiveness toward Paterno driving anyone's comments, in my humble opinion.

  3. #223
    BD80, we will have to agree to disagree. I do not see the world of difference you say that you do. I see enough to have warranted action, whether or not the act was related as having involved anal rape or not.

    Please note, Paterno's testimony did not involve him quoting the graduate student; those were Paterno's words - the GJP does not state that Paterno claims they were McQueary's words. McQueary could have been explicit in his description with Paterno, and I believe you noted that he states he was; Paterno's testimony does not preclude that.

    Interestingly, the GJP does state that Curley was asked if he had received a report specific enough to note anal rape and he denies it was that specific. [his testimony was considered materially false by the GJ]. I wonder why there's nothing in there about Paterno being asked if McQueary was that specific. Its absence may be another "tell" - kind of like the the dog that didn't bark (silver blaze)

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    According to this article, all six Sandusky children were adopted (three as infants, three after being in foster care):

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7979/index.htm
    Wow - that is a shock! I thought the boys, Jon and EJ, looked like their father and they look similar to one another. Maybe both boys had the same birth mother and were adopted by the Sandusky family.

    Thanks for finding that. I searched for about 15 minutes last night and wasn't able to find anything.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by just a lemma View Post
    Paterno has released a statement saying that he will retire at the end of the season. Link.

    It is very short, but it indicates that he does not absolve himself of blame. I presume that more details on what he believes he did wrong will be forthcoming when he gives his next press conference. I am very curious as to what he will say.
    Incredibly sad that his career has to end this way, but there is more to this than just Joe Paterno. It's frustrating to see that almost everyone in the media's main focus is Joe.

    -I heard somewhere that he will have a press conference later today. I do not know if that is still the case though and I forget where I originally heard/read that. I, too, am interested in what he will say. I am sure there will be a few things that attorney's have already warned him about though.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by J4Kop99 View Post
    Incredibly sad that his career has to end this way, but there is more to this than just Joe Paterno. It's frustrating to see that almost everyone in the media's main focus is Joe.

    -I heard somewhere that he will have a press conference later today. I do not know if that is still the case though and I forget where I originally heard/read that. I, too, am interested in what he will say. I am sure there will be a few things that attorney's have already warned him about though.

    And now the speculation will begin with who will replace JoePa. In fact, it already has.
    Here's to hoping they find someone with a GREAT reputation and character. They are going to need it because this is just the beginning of the mess at PSU.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    Wow - that is a shock! I thought the boys, Jon and EJ, looked like their father and they look similar to one another. Maybe both boys had the same birth mother and were adopted by the Sandusky family ...
    The article I found was from 1999; I believe the Posnanski (sp?) piece linked above lists the adopted child total at 8 ...

    I was a bit surprised, like you, all were adopted, as genetics seem to have a lot to do w/ athletic talent, and since Sandusky the elder was a PSU player, and then when two of his sons were PSU players, that led me to believe there was a biological connection.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Frankly, there is a world of difference between a student telling Paterno he saw Sandusky having sex with a boy in the shower and him telling Paterno he saw "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy,"
    I haven't posted on this board in months, yet feel compelled to log in to disagree with this point.

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    Have you read the Grand Jury Presentment, especially page 7 ? Paterno himself testified* that "... the graduate student had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

    Do you really need more specific than that? Is that really too vague, ambiguous, and subject to interpretation?

    * - the paragraph has 3 sentences. The first starts with "Joseph V. Paterno testified ..." and the second begins "Paterno testified ..." - but the third does not. I strongly think it is implied. If the GA was as vague as you appear to think he was, why did Paterno call his AD the next day? Why didn't it just end there, maybe with JoePa saying, "well, I'll look into it, don't worry." Why did the AD meet with the GA? Why was the president of the university notified? All these subsequent events seem very implausible - very unlikely to have occurred at all - if the GA was as vague as you imply. I don't find that perspective credible at all.
    What is the vaguest part of the whole deal? Why didn't the GA go directly to the police to report an obviously vile felony? HE was the eyewitness. I'm just having trouble seeing how Paterno seems to be the evil one even though Spanier, Schultz, and the GA are more culpable. I would liken the GA's inaction to being a hit-and-run driver who later returned to the scene, just a bit late to be of help to the victim.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by the amoeba View Post
    I haven't posted on this board in months, yet feel compelled to log in to disagree with this point.
    I can't help but believe that wasn't meant the way it was written.

    And I agree that MCQueary, Curley, Spanier, and especially Schultz deserve as much approbation with the facts we have now.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    What is the vaguest part of the whole deal? Why didn't the GA go directly to the police to report an obviously vile felony? HE was the eyewitness. I'm just having trouble seeing how Paterno seems to be the evil one even though Spanier, Schultz, and the GA are more culpable. I would liken the GA's inaction to being a hit-and-run driver who later returned to the scene, just a bit late to be of help to the victim.
    While I agree the GA deserves extreme scrutiny and probably scorn, it's more akin to witnessing his dad's best pal commit a hit and run, fleeing the scene as well, then returning.

    But the fact that the GA discussed what he witnessed with JoePa at any level, even if limited to "naked in the shower together," and both Sandusky is allowed to remain on campus carte blanche, and the GA is kept on and promoted up the staff, makes ZERO sense to me. It's hard to rationally explain. Either Sandusky had to go (or get arrested), or the GA had to go for making up stories.

    I can speculate on some potential reasons for this considering the relationship between Sandusky and the GA's father, but I have a feeling, like others, the worst is yet to come out.

  12. #232
    Scandal's unintended effects ... there's a Baltimore sportscaster (Gerry Sandusky) whose father was a Baltimore Colts coach ... no relation ... but some confusion out there in the world:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...,5901092.story

  13. #233
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati

    Oops.

    I think I meant opprobrium.

  14. #234
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    What is the vaguest part of the whole deal? Why didn't the GA go directly to the police to report an obviously vile felony? HE was the eyewitness. I'm just having trouble seeing how Paterno seems to be the evil one even though Spanier, Schultz, and the GA are more culpable.
    What gave you the impression that anyone thinks that there is a limit on the amount of blame to go around here?

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    A few points.

    Remember when OJ Simpson was in that white Bronco? How upsetting it was to Bob Costas? OJ Simpson was his friend. He didn't want what was happening to be true. Most of us don't want our friends to be capable of horrible deeds. I'm going to assume that Joe Paterno felt the same way about Jerry Sandusky. In the official statement, Paterno refers to Sandusky as Coach Sandusky. IMHO, that says an awful lot right there. Personally, using Coach to describe the man made my skin crawl, but Paterno still sees him that way. In the immortal words of Albus Dumbledore, it takes a brave person to stand up to your enemies, it takes an even braver one to stand up to your friends. We on the outside can point at him and say how he didn't do the right thing, the moral thing, how could he not? My answer - he wasn't brave enough. That's where he's let us down. That's why so much of the attention in this case is on him. All the accolades, all the winning, all the running of a clean program fall away because he wasn't brave enough and we expect our sports heroes to be brave enough.

    Second point, the adminstrators, they just wanted the problem to go away. University administrators entering into cover it up, make it go away, cover your I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. mode? Really? We're surprised by this? Do any of you spend time on or near university campuses? Should they have called the police? Absolutely. But to them personally they probably would have only succeeded in losing their jobs sooner. Yes, they could have protected the children, they should have protected those children, but is anybody really surprised that they chose not to? All we're asking is for people in their position to put the needs of a few 'at risk' children ahead of their own. Like I said, really? That's going to happen? And what about the 'shareholders' of Penn State, don't they owe something to them, to keep the good name going? Calling in the authorities could have severely damanged one of the University's main revenue generators. Universities are just another form of corporation. I equate their actions with Toyota deciding that the lawsuits from the deaths caused by their faulty accelerators were cheaper than a recall.

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by tendev View Post
    It appears that the University Attorney (at least one of them) was also the legal counsel for Second Mile. There is a lot of back watching apparent here. I just think they did not want this to get outside Penn State. It is the institution protecting itself: the Catholic Church comes to mind here. Sadly, I think there is a very strong impulse to do that.

    Good catch ... I'd forgotten that. This story is just getting worse and worse.
    No soup for you!

  17. #237
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC

    A fantastic, heartbreaking piece from a lifelong Penn State fan

    ...who grew up in State College

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ing-penn-state

    I would venture to say that many of us would be able to relate to some of the sentiments in here.

  18. #238
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    We get your point, but let's not be obtuse here. What's interesting or worthy of discussion about Sandusky at this point? If he's guilty, he's a monster. There's not much nuance there. And while the AD and administrator's alleged actions are up for grabs and not fully settled until more facts come out, if it turns out that they were as flatly callous as the initial allegations make it seem, there's not much nuance to their moral failure, either. They also aren't nationally known as the most powerful man on a campus of 40,000+ students, and Paterno, while famous for being the football coach, is also legendary for his reputation and moral standing, and has offered those things up publicly as the foundation of his successful football program. His role or lack thereof is infinitely more nuanced and interesting as a moral quandary. Sandusky was one of his right hand men for decades, so the interpersonal relationship and all that entails in the psychology of Paterno's actions here is fascinating. That he happens to be a household name is mostly coincidental. His position in all this is like a textbook discussion sample from an Ethics course.

    There's been very little self-righteousness or rush to judgment in this thread, and no indications of grudges or vindictiveness toward Paterno driving anyone's comments, in my humble opinion.
    good points

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    Great article! It confirms what I said upstream in this topic that Curley and Schultz almost certainly cannot be convicted on the charge of failure to report because they did not actually have a duty to do so under state law. Remember you heard it from me first! It is for this reason the prosecutors had to manufacture a crime buy running a perjury trap on them in order to have any hope of convicting them for anything.

    There is a weird political dimension to this case that I have not figured out yet. Can anyone tell me why the state attorney general’s office is handling this case rather than the Centre County District Attorney and why they needed a multiyear investigative grand jury to investigate it? I have not seen that explained yet. Kiddy diddlers are a dime a dozen and local police are more than competent to find and interview the usually cooperative complaining witnesses. This is not the Russian Mafia they are trying to bring down here! As horrible as the conduct alleged is, the only reason the case is getting attention from the press is that the alleged perpetrator is a local celebrity.

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    I want to raise one minor point about what the "confirmed facts" of this case are.

    As far as I understand, grand jury transcripts are sealed unless a compelling need is demonstrated.

    A grand jury report is not the same as a transcript and is the subjective interpretation of the majority of the grand jury of the testimony they heard. As far as I know there is no policy of making a report of the minority opinion.

    Again, it looks fairly bad. Let's say that there's a 99% chance that Joe Paterno knew enough to have a moral (not legal) responsibility to do more. His recent statement certainly makes it sound like he himself now believes so. But how much? To condemn someone based on 99% is to say that we are okay with condemning 10 innocent people for every 1000 people accused. I am not comfortable with those 10 suffering because we can't even wait a month or two before passing judgment. I am not saying Joe Paterno is in that 10, but condemning Joe Paterno so strongly now hurts those who will be in that 10 in the future.

    Again, what do we gain from this? The victims are not any better off. It is not as if the principle that we must report any hint of child abuse to the cops is diminished by waiting for more information before publicly condemning Paterno on a message board. We can offer to contribute to the legal fees of the victims when they sue PSU. We can raise our own level of vigilance in our own communities. We can donate to organizations that help heal the victims of such horrific crimes.

    Are we being effective and efficient in our reaction to this news? Or are we just instinctively struggling to find an appropriate way to express and react to the fear that we have in our hearts about what if this happens to our kids without actually taking real action?

    Again, there will be no harm in waiting a little while longer before we decide how much public condemnation is deserved by one Joe Paterno. While we are waiting, there are better things we can do to make sure this does not happen to our own children. While we wait for more information, there are better things we can do to help the victims of child abuse.

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