NC State and Sidney Lowe

[bluepenguin]

Just wondering whether it is time for the annual: Jason "It's time to replace Sidney Lowe" Evans thread?

[wilko]

Just wondering whether it is time for the annual: Jason "It's time to replace Sidney Lowe" Evans thread?

Since State DID manage a win against us Last yr... I'm inclined to think he is doing OK.
A little "too" ok actually..

[davekay1971]

So far, State's season has to be described as disappointing. They've played four good teams and gone 0-4 against them. Granted, all four of those losses are without their best player and senior leader, and that means something. However, the loss of Tracy Smith doesn't explain State absolutely quitting against Wisconsin, nor does it explain a 10 point home loss to a decent but not exceptional Arizona team. It doesn't explain consistently poor decisionmaking, bad turnovers, defensive lapses that cost State the Arizona game and kept them from scoring a big win at Syracuse. As much as I personally like Sidney Lowe, those are the hallmark signs of a poorly coached team.

They are also, however, the signs of a young team that hasn't quite gotten it yet, and even a great coach may struggle to get a freshman-laden squad to learn how to play smart, consistent basketball.

So, despite a disappointing start without any statement wins and with some pretty bad stretches of basketball, the jury, in my mind, is still out. Is it Lowe's coaching, Tracy's injury, or a team that's young and just learning how to play college ball? Or is it a combination?

Well, they'll get Smith back at some point, hopefully by the start of ACC play, and the freshmen are going to keep getting lots of experience and should learn. If State starts to put it together and has a good ACC season and makes the NCAA tournament, I think Sidney gets a chance to stay around and keep coaching the talent he's recruited. If they stumble along to a .500 record in the league and find themselves back in the NIT, I think Debbie Yow pulls the trigger and sees if someone else can do a better job coaching Harrow, Brown, Wood, etc...

[mkline09]

So far, State's season has to be described as disappointing. They've played four good teams and gone 0-4 against them. Granted, all four of those losses are without their best player and senior leader, and that means something. However, the loss of Tracy Smith doesn't explain State absolutely quitting against Wisconsin, nor does it explain a 10 point home loss to a decent but not exceptional Arizona team. It doesn't explain consistently poor decisionmaking, bad turnovers, defensive lapses that cost State the Arizona game and kept them from scoring a big win at Syracuse. As much as I personally like Sidney Lowe, those are the hallmark signs of a poorly coached team.

They are also, however, the signs of a young team that hasn't quite gotten it yet, and even a great coach may struggle to get a freshman-laden squad to learn how to play smart, consistent basketball.

So, despite a disappointing start without any statement wins and with some pretty bad stretches of basketball, the jury, in my mind, is still out. Is it Lowe's coaching, Tracy's injury, or a team that's young and just learning how to play college ball? Or is it a combination?

Well, they'll get Smith back at some point, hopefully by the start of ACC play, and the freshmen are going to keep getting lots of experience and should learn. If State starts to put it together and has a good ACC season and makes the NCAA tournament, I think Sidney gets a chance to stay around and keep coaching the talent he's recruited. If they stumble along to a .500 record in the league and find themselves back in the NIT, I think Debbie Yow pulls the trigger and sees if someone else can do a better job coaching Harrow, Brown, Wood, etc...

Lowe made an interesting comment last night after the loss to Arizona. He said Tracy is going to have to learn to play through some pain. Sounds like the knee is structurally fine just hurting him and sounds as if he could play but just doesn't feel comfortable.

Not sure if that is as bad as it sounds, but that is scary to think a coach would want a college kid playing through pain. Lowe is in trouble. If they don't at least make the tournament with the level of talent he has this year the fans will be calling for his head, those that aren't already. Even without Smith like you said there is no excuse to losing like they did to Wisconsin.

[superdave]

I just checked out State's schedule - 4 out-of-conference games in the next two weeks, then the ACC. They can and should go at least 3-1 if not 4-0 in the near term.

Assuming 3-1 puts them at 9-5 going into conference. If they go 8-8 or worse in conference with no ACC tourney win, they're not getting into the NCAAs. But 9-7 with 1 ACC tourney win makes them 19-12 and puts them at least on the bubble. I think as weak as the ACC is this year, they're going to need 20 wins heading into selection Sunday.

[Fuqua's Finest]

Well I happened to attend the game yesterday evening and I had the chance to see what NC State has this year. Obviously without Tracey Smith in the lineup it's hard to assess them truly. However, my initial thoughts were that the team is extremely young and extremely raw. It's almost as if they play with no continuity. It's too many players trying to create their own shots. They truly have no team flow. Whenever State happened to make runs it was when Scott Wood started draining 3's. I must admit, he might be the best 3 pt. shooter in the ACC (No knock to Dre, but the Wood kid can stroke it). I wasn't very impressed with their freshman however. Leslie is still trying to figure out his role. He's a wing with a 4's mentality. He'll def have to shoot it a lot better to succeed at the next level. Harrow didn't start and he didn't seem to make many plays while he was in. I didn't see him use any of his elite athleticism at all. Lorenzo Brown was by far the most impressive. The kid has a scorer's mentality and took it the rack strong with some nice finishes. Overall, I wasn't that impressed and I think State is a year away from competing for Top 3 in the ACC.

[davekay1971]

Well I happened to attend the game yesterday evening and I had the chance to see what NC State has this year. Obviously without Tracey Smith in the lineup it's hard to assess them truly. However, my initial thoughts were that the team is extremely young and extremely raw. It's almost as if they play with no continuity. It's too many players trying to create their own shots. They truly have no team flow. Whenever State happened to make runs it was when Scott Wood started draining 3's. I must admit, he might be the best 3 pt. shooter in the ACC (No knock to Dre, but the Wood kid can stroke it). I wasn't very impressed with their freshman however. Leslie is still trying to figure out his role. He's a wing with a 4's mentality. He'll def have to shoot it a lot better to succeed at the next level. Harrow didn't start and he didn't seem to make many plays while he was in. I didn't see him use any of his elite athleticism at all. Lorenzo Brown was by far the most impressive. The kid has a scorer's mentality and took it the rack strong with some nice finishes. Overall, I wasn't that impressed and I think State is a year away from competing for Top 3 in the ACC.

Good assessment. I've watched them quite a bit this year and what you saw with Brown has been what he's shown all year. He's the most college-ready of the three freshmen and is simply a good player. Wood is, IMHO, State's best player outside of Smith, largely because Wood is a smart player who (usually) plays within the flow of the game. It's rare to see him force things or make big mistakes. He'd be a Duke fan favorite if he was on our team. You probably saw Harrow's worst game of the season yesterday. Not sure why, but he was really forcing things, making mistakes, basically playing like a freshman. He's been great at times this year, and you can see how good he's going to be as he gains experience. Yesterday was simply a bad, bad game for him. Leslie has struggled to find his place in the offense. He may benefit from Smith's return more than anyone, because State having a legitimate scoring threat in the post will open up some more room for Leslie to operate at the high post and wing, where he's more comfortable. It was good to see his rebounding yesterday, however.

State's biggest problem, as a whole, really is a lack of understanding as to who should be doing what and where they should be in the halfcourt, and it does tend to devolve into guys trying to "make something happen" by themselves. That's coaching, and my biggest knock on Sidney right now. It's also why State is still going through these long scoring droughts that have plagued them for the last 3 years. Better talent hasn't fixed that.

I think State will probably go 5-0 over their next 5, but that's 5 home wins against 4 non-conference minnows and then Wake. 11-4 at that point without a single impressive win means they've got to prove it in conference. The next 2 games after that (at BC and at FSU) will determine their season, because after those two challenging road games they've got us coming to Raleigh. If they welcome us at 3-0 with two confidence building road wins, they're going to be feeling good, even if we beat them, about their chances in the ACC race for 2nd place. If they can't get those road wins, and are 1-2 with us coming to town, it's going to be hard to see how State can make the NCAAT without that annual hoped-for-miracle-run-in-the-ACCT.

[moonpie23]

Since State DID manage a win against us Last yr.

and who is THAT on?

[Acymetric]

Lowe made an interesting comment last night after the loss to Arizona. He said Tracy is going to have to learn to play through some pain. Sounds like the knee is structurally fine just hurting him and sounds as if he could play but just doesn't feel comfortable.

Not sure if that is as bad as it sounds, but that is scary to think a coach would want a college kid playing through pain. Lowe is in trouble. If they don't at least make the tournament with the level of talent he has this year the fans will be calling for his head, those that aren't already. Even without Smith like you said there is no excuse to losing like they did to Wisconsin.

Well if he wants to play in the NBA playing through pain is something he'll have to learn to do...I don't really see a problem with that as long as they are 100% sure that playing will not cause further injury or prolong the recovery.

[mkline09]

Well if he wants to play in the NBA playing through pain is something he'll have to learn to do...I don't really see a problem with that as long as they are 100% sure that playing will not cause further injury or prolong the recovery.

This is true but I just don't agree with making a kid play through pain or calling him out because he doesn't feel comfortable. Don't get me wrong I like Lowe as a coach, I couldn't see K doing it though.

If the kid isn't comfortable then don't play him. And don't make excuses like if we had him we would... If he goes out there trying to avoid an injury or worsening an injury then he is opening himself up to an injury. That seems to be how those things happen. You play tentative and not at full speed you seem to get hurt or so the story goes.

[wilko]

and who is THAT on?

Well, YOU were my 1st on my list for THAT transgression...
However, when you get right down to it... I'll trade a loss to State every year for National Championship.

Fair trade in my book.

[JasonEvans]

Just wondering whether it is time for the annual: Jason "It's time to replace Sidney Lowe" Evans thread?

Longtimers will recall that I wanted Herb run out of town before Sid arrived. I actually became more supportive of Herb late in his tenure, once he had turned State into a team that consistently made the NCAA tourney, but I was not too sad to see him go.

Then State hired Sid and I was shocked. I thought it was a terrible hire, a guy ill-suited to the college game who was largely a failure as pro head coach. He had zero college coaching experience, zero experience recruiting. It made no sense as a hire and that he has done poorly is no surprise to me.

--Jason "I may be crazy, but I think State can do better" Evans

[CameronBornAndBred]

Then State hired Sid and I was shocked. I thought it was a terrible hire, a guy ill-suited to the college game who was largely a failure as pro head coach. He had zero college coaching experience, zero experience recruiting. It made no sense as a hire and that he has done poorly is no surprise to me.

I seem to recall that State asked a bunch of other people but were continuosly spurned, and they had to settle on Lowe. I wonder if they will have the same difficulty in replacing him (which I imagine they will be doing after this season, I don't see them getting better).

[jimsumner]

This is true but I just don't agree with making a kid play through pain or calling him out because he doesn't feel comfortable. Don't get me wrong I like Lowe as a coach, I couldn't see K doing it though.

If the kid isn't comfortable then don't play him. And don't make excuses like if we had him we would... If he goes out there trying to avoid an injury or worsening an injury then he is opening himself up to an injury. That seems to be how those things happen. You play tentative and not at full speed you seem to get hurt or so the story goes.

I was at that press conference. In fairness to Lowe, it should be pointed out that he said several times that he would not force Smith or anyone else to play when they didn't want to and side-stepped some pointed questions that would have enabled him to more directly criticize Smith had he been so inclined.

Lowe also pointed out that this was the first serious injury of Smith's career and that Smith was still figuring out how to deal with it. Lowe's frustration was quite obvious.

State has talent but hasn't meshed. Smith is a half-court player, the freshmen are more run-and-gun types. They need some time together while they still have the Delaware States of the world on their schedule. The more time Smith sits out, the harder it's going to be to get everyone on the same page.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I too would give them some time to iron out some of the kinks in their games. Of the 14 players on their team, 9 of them are freshman or sophomores. That is a lot of young talent and you couple that with the fact that their best player has been hurting, that is a recipe for disaster. It is unsettling that they had 4 good chances at getting a marquee out-of-conference win and failed miserably, so they are honestly probably headed to the NIT. I do think they have a good future and if you give them some time, they'll improve. If you get rid of Lowe now or soon, you are just adding to the fire I think.

[jimsumner]

I too would give them some time to iron out some of the kinks in their games. Of the 14 players on their team, 9 of them are freshman or sophomores. That is a lot of young talent and you couple that with the fact that their best player has been hurting, that is a recipe for disaster. It is unsettling that they had 4 good chances at getting a marquee out-of-conference win and failed miserably, so they are honestly probably headed to the NIT. I do think they have a good future and if you give them some time, they'll improve. If you get rid of Lowe now or soon, you are just adding to the fire I think.

You may be right about Lowe. But I'm reasonably certain that an NIT appearance for State this season will lead to a coaching change.

[JasonEvans]

You may be right about Lowe. But I'm reasonably certain that an NIT appearance for State this season will lead to a coaching change.

He is in his 5th year with 2 NIT appearances (1 in year 1, one last year) and zero NCAA appearances to show for it. He is yet to finish higher than a tie for 9th in the conference and yet to post a conference record better than 6-10.

At any school, let alone one with a fabulous basketball tradition, that should have your head on the chopping block.

-Jason "no NCAA this year, no Sid next year" Evans

[Duvall]

He is in his 5th year with 2 NIT appearances (1 in year 1, one last year) and zero NCAA appearances to show for it. He is yet to finish higher than a tie for 9th in the conference and yet to post a conference record better than 6-10.

At any school, let alone one with a fabulous basketball tradition, that should have your head on the chopping block.

-Jason "no NCAA this year, no Sid next year" Evans

At what point does State's fabulous basketball tradition become as irrelevant as CCNY's? State's glory days are now a distant memory not just for potential recruits, but for parents of potential recruits.

State does have the advantage of a large and engaged fanbase, which matters a lot. But it's not clear how much tradition still helps them.

[Greg_Newton]

You may be right about Lowe. But I'm reasonably certain that an NIT appearance for State this season will lead to a coaching change.

I wonder what their conference record would have to be for that to happen?

Their best OOC win will be George Mason or ECU, and they've lost to all four BCS teams they've played. With such a weak ACC, I doubt 9-7 would make the cut, and I'm not even sure 10-6 would be a guarantee without beating Duke.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I wonder what their conference record would have to be for that to happen?

Their best OOC win will be George Mason or ECU, and they've lost to all four BCS teams they've played. With such a weak ACC, I doubt 9-7 would make the cut, and I'm not even sure 10-6 would be a guarantee without beating Duke.

If they are outside of the top 3 in the ACC, they are probably NIT bound. I can't remember a year when the ACC had such a bleak tourney outlook heading into January. In the coaches' poll, Duke is not the only ranked ACC team, they are the only ACC team to even get a vote.