The end of civilization as we know it

[OldPhiKap]

Dear God. That does it, I'm stocking up on canned beans and bottled water. The end in nigh. I can now get a Royale with Cheese to munch on while I view some of the greatest works of art ever produced by man...

Why do they call it a Royale with Cheese?

Last time I was in Paris, the most crowded coffee spots were Starbucks. Left Bank, no less. So there you have it.

[77devil]

Why do they call it a Royale with Cheese?

Metric system-Didn't you see Pulp Fiction.

[YourLandlord]

the entire thing

Simply an absurd post.

Many of the salads have more calories than the hamburgers. The main salads have between 400-630 or so calories with dressing,

Who is forcing you to drench them in dressing? It comes in a separate packet. That healthy salad you make at home is a killer if you pour on tons of dressing too.

The premium chicken sandwiches have roughly the same amount of calories as the Big Mac (between 420 and 630). The Big Mac is 540 calories.

Sure, if you require mayonnaise and all the other gunk they put on the chicken sandwiches. You can easily request that not to be added. Which is what I do, and then just add a dab of bbq sauce.

Also, food does have calories. 420 calories for a meal (that is primarily protein and carbs, with some fat) is small, and as it turns out, well balanced. Eat that 3 times a day and you're only at 1260 calories. Which, as you know, is very little.

If you add fries to that, you add a few hundred more calories. This doesn't even include whatever drink you get. There's saturated fat in all of those except the drink.

Who is forcing you to get fries, instead of a side salad, apple slices, or any of the other sides that they offer?

Diet drinks have zero calories. Or, save the money and get a water. They do have water at McDonalds, fyi.

Oh, and the new Angus burgers have roughly 760 calories each.

Brett Favre had 2 touchdowns in the first half tonight.

Both of these facts have zero bearing on my meal selection.

You can construct a wildly unhealthy meal at any place -- Whole Foods or McDonalds.

People also have a personal choice to eat properly, and they can do this at McDonalds if they have one ounce of self control.

[OldPhiKap]

Metric system-Didn't you see Pulp Fiction.

Stay cool, Flock of Seagulls.

[FireOgilvie]

Simply an absurd post.

Who is forcing you to drench them in dressing? It comes in a separate packet. That healthy salad you make at home is a killer if you pour on tons of dressing too.

Sure, if you require mayonnaise and all the other gunk they put on the chicken sandwiches. You can easily request that not to be added. Which is what I do, and then just add a dab of bbq sauce.

Also, food does have calories. 420 calories for a meal (that is primarily protein and carbs, with some fat) is small, and as it turns out, well balanced. Eat that 3 times a day and you're only at 1260 calories. Which, as you know, is very little.

Who is forcing you to get fries, instead of a side salad, apple slices, or any of the other sides that they offer?

Diet drinks have zero calories. Or, save the money and get a water. They do have water at McDonalds, fyi.

Brett Favre had 2 touchdowns in the first half tonight.

Both of these facts have zero bearing on my meal selection.

You can construct a wildly unhealthy meal at any place -- Whole Foods or McDonalds.

People also have a personal choice to eat properly, and they can do this at McDonalds if they have one ounce of self control.

You said, "you can get some perfectly healthy and tasty meals there now. Chicken salads, chicken wraps, chicken sandwiches, etc." All I was doing is quoting the McDonald's nutrition facts page for the items you mentioned. How is that absurd? You are one of the few people that special orders every single item on the menu to make them healthier, which is obviously better, yet you didn't mention this until now. If you order the items as they are listed and made standard, they are in no way healthy. My stating that is not "absurd."

Most people think that when they buy a salad, it will be healthy. But, as I pointed out, that is not the case here. You don't have to "drench" it in dressing. Using half the serving size of dressing will still add 30-100 calories, depending on which you use, to the 320 calorie grilled chicken salad or 430 calorie crispy chicken salad. If you get the lowest calorie chicken salad, the grilled chicken caesar and only add half the standard dressing, you are still at 145 calories from fat and 6 grams of saturated fat. The caesar salad with half dressing has more saturated fat than the large fries, which have 3.5 grams of saturated fat. Do you see what I am getting at yet?

Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said anyone had to get fries or a non-diet drink. I said that if you add those, it adds a lot of calories and saturated fat. The standard side for a value meal at McDonald's is fries. You have to ask for the pre-packaged apple slices (that come standard with caramel dipping sauce I believe, which you can obviously not use). Also, the comment about the angus burgers was an aside. I just thought it was interesting.

[aimo]

I will say the most happy I ever was to see a McDonalds was in Grignols on a Sunday after a wedding in Cocumont. We were STARVING and as is the case on the French countryside -- EVERYTHING was closed on Sunday, including the markets. We drove around forever trying to find a place to eat and lo and behold, there were arches like a beacon of hope.

I was in Germany on a Saturday afternoon around 3:30. NOTHING was open and we were starving. Kind of like you, we rounded a corner, and there they were. And we were grateful.

I had been in France for about three months and had been craving some real American food. My friend and I took a weekend trip to Austria, and as we rounded a corner in Innsbruck, (cue the heavenly music) there stood a Chili's. We almost cried. Stuffed ourselves on chicken nachos. Don't get me wrong, we ate plenty of good authentic European food that semester, but sometimes, ya gotta have nachos.

[JG Nothing]

Do you think those stores open and lose money? The citizens of these other countries buy the products.

No, I understand that many people in other countries love McDonald's and all things American. That's why I referred to "some" people hating America.

[JG Nothing]

Especially the French - France is McDonald's's biggest market outside the US.

I'm with A-Tex on this one. Blame the Louvre (and/or the food shop owners) if you're offended, but blaming McDonald's or America is somewhat silly.

On a more fundamental level, I can't imagine this degrading the experience of visiting the Louvre one iota. A McDonald's at the entrance doesn't make the Mona Lisa any less stunning, etc., etc.

Go through the Richelieu entrance near the metro stop and you can avoid it. ;-)

[JG Nothing]

People also have a personal choice to eat properly, and they can do this at McDonalds if they have one ounce of self control.

It's not that simple. David Kessler, former FDA commissioner, has recently written a book, The End of Overeating, which discusses how the food industry has perfected the combination of salt, sugar, and oil to make a product that is literally addictive to many people.

Here is an excerpt from the Publisher's Weekly review (copied from Amazon):

Conditioned hypereating is a biological challenge, not a character flaw, says Kessler, former FDA commissioner under presidents Bush and Clinton). Here Kessler (A Question of Intent) describes how, since the 1980s, the food industry, in collusion with the advertising industry, and lifestyle changes have short-circuited the body's self-regulating mechanisms, leaving many at the mercy of reward-driven eating. Through the evidence of research, personal stories (including candid accounts of his own struggles) and examinations of specific foods produced by giant food corporations and restaurant chains, Kessler explains how the desire to eat—as distinct from eating itself—is stimulated in the brain by an almost infinite variety of diabolical combinations of salt, fat and sugar. Although not everyone succumbs, more people of all ages are being set up for a lifetime of food obsession due to the ever-present availability of foods laden with salt, fat and sugar. A gentle though urgent plea for reform, Kessler's book provides a simple food rehab program to fight back against the industry's relentless quest for profits while an entire country of people gain weight and get sick.

Here is an interesting four minute interview with Kessler:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mEWVSEWYGEKK1

[theAlaskanBear]

I was in Argentina for 5 months, and we had a McDonalds right across the street from our building in downtown Buenos Aires. It was about a block from Congreso.

Anyhoo, I went the whole five months without eating there, which wasnt hard for me because I dont like fast food....but the other students would pack McDs after some hard drinking. The strange thing is, it wasn't open 24 hours! close, but not quite.

[77devil]

People also have a personal choice to eat properly, and they can do this at McDonalds if they have one ounce of self control.

It's not that simple. David Kessler, former FDA commissioner, has recently written a book, The End of Overeating, which discusses how the food industry has perfected the combination of salt, sugar, and oil to make a product that is literally addictive to many people.

Here is an excerpt from the Publisher's Weekly review (copied from Amazon):


Here is an interesting four minute interview with Kessler:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mEWVSEWYGEKK1

How inconvenient of you to produce facts contrary to opinion.

[cato]

How inconvenient of you to produce facts contrary to baseless opinion.

Just to get our terms straight here, the excerpt provided by JG Nothing was filled with opinion, not fact. When you see words like "collusion" and phrases like "industry's relentless quest for profits" thrown about, you're usually in the realm of opinion.

[YourLandlord]

How inconvenient of you to produce facts contrary to opinion.

? These aren't facts.

It's food. They made it taste better. There's not some magical diabolical combination of sugar/salt/fat that suddenly turns humans into zombies drawn to this alchemist mixture.

It's a choice. Is it harder because it tastes better? Sure, in the same way a Snickers bar tastes better than a carrot.

But this whole "SCIENCE IS MAKING FOOD IRRESISTIBLE" theory is simply false.

If I put a Big Mac and a Chicken Sandwich in front of you, there is nothing forcing you either way. It's still 100% under your conscious control. You choose the burger, it's your choice.

[77devil]

? These aren't facts.

It's food. They made it taste better. There's not some magical diabolical combination of sugar/salt/fat that suddenly turns humans into zombies drawn to this alchemist mixture.

It's a choice. Is it harder because it tastes better? Sure, in the same way a Snickers bar tastes better than a carrot.

But this whole "SCIENCE IS MAKING FOOD IRRESISTIBLE" theory is simply false.

If I put a Big Mac and a Chicken Sandwich in front of you, there is nothing forcing you either way. It's still 100% under your conscious control. You choose the burger, it's your choice.

The data in Dr Kessler's book disputes your hyperbole. Dr Kessler is a Harvard MD, a U of Chicago JD and ran the FDA for 8 years. What are your qualifications and where are your data?

[77devil]

Just to get our terms straight here, the excerpt provided by JG Nothing was filled with opinion, not fact. When you see words like "collusion" and phrases like "industry's relentless quest for profits" thrown about, you're usually in the realm of opinion.

Dr. David Kessler's qualifications are in another post. His book includes lots of data to support his conclusions.

[YourLandlord]

The data in Dr Kessler's book disputes your hyperbole. Dr Kessler is a Harvard MD, a U of Chicago JD and ran the FDA for 8 years. What are your qualifications and where are your data?

Wait, so you really think that some MAGIC combination of ingredients makes food PHYSICALLY IRRESISTIBLE to people?

[JG Nothing]

Wait, so you really think that some MAGIC combination of ingredients makes food PHYSICALLY IRRESISTIBLE to people?

Using the term "irresistible" really does not do justice to what Keesler is talking about. Combinations of ingredients (i.e. chemicals) can lead to an addiction in some, but not all people. Keesler has his theory and cites his evidence.

Also, this is much, much more than a matter of food simply tasting good. This involves manipulating pleasure sensors in the brains of people susceptible to the addiction. I do not see why that is so far fetched. Some people can drink a beer, think it tastes great, and stop, while others cannot. Isn't it possible that the same thing can be going on with certain foods because of the chemical reactions they produce in the brain?

I was addicted to cigarettes, smoking two packs a day for ten years. I quit cold turkey after several unsuccessful attempts. It was the hardest thing I have every done in my life. If, in fact, there are food addictions, then saying how one eats is simply a personal choice is not going to be helpful for many of the addicts.

[JG Nothing]

Wait, so you really think that some MAGIC combination of ingredients makes food PHYSICALLY IRRESISTIBLE to people?

Using the term "irresistible" really does not do justice to what Keesler is talking about. Combinations of ingredients (i.e. chemicals) can lead to an addiction in some, but not all people. Keesler has his theory and cites his evidence.

Also, this is much, much more than a matter of food simply tasting good. This involves manipulating pleasure sensors in the brains of people susceptible to the addiction. I do not see why that is so far fetched. Some people can drink a beer, think it tastes great, and stop, while others cannot. Isn't it possible that the same thing can be going on with certain foods because of certain chemical reactions in the brain?

[throatybeard]

I was in Argentina for 5 months, and we had a McDonalds right across the street from our building in downtown Buenos Aires. It was about a block from Congreso.

Anyhoo, I went the whole five months without eating there, which wasnt hard for me because I dont like fast food....but the other students would pack McDs after some hard drinking. The strange thing is, it wasn't open 24 hours! close, but not quite.

Awesome post.

I did a mileage run to BA in August, right before school started. I ain't no world traveler. I have a friend who has eaten at like forty zillion steak places in BA and I think also Uruguay, since he's been there eighty zillion times. He recommended a place on Defensa in the San Telmo neighborhood. I ate there. It was amazing. I got my grass-fed bife de lomo and some veggies and my bottle of Malbec, and the whole mess was like the equivalent of 20 bucks. I've got a pretty good alcohol tolerance and love me some beef, so I went back out into the open market on Defensa, as it was Domingo, with no ill effects.

I walk one block South, and there's a freaking McD on the avenue de some date in Argentine history. I bout crapped my pants. Now, most of the peeps in there are drinking coffee (?). But still. The extent of American garbage diet is um, long. I didn't check to see if they had the McApple Pie or whatever it's called.

If you're fb firends with me, take a look at the Argentina album. You'll see the long arm of Ronald. Or even if you're not. I think my profile is on non-private.

[cato]

Dr. David Kessler's qualifications are in another post. His book includes lots of data to support his conclusions.

His qualifications might be tip top, and all that wonderful data might support his opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that what you called "facts" were not, in fact, facts.