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  1. #161
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    I did not think they had a great regular season- just a good one. Losing three starters and a ton of leadership is hard on any team- but this team did okay and made things interesting for UNC. They had a very bad post season- cannot argue with that.
    I agree , we had a good regular season, but unfortuneately you are based on what you do in the post season. If Kentucky does not make the Final 4 ,I would say that they had a disappointing season.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    McCollum wasn't even that great last night.

    From the field he was 9 for 24. Not only did he not shoot 50% from the field, he didn't even shoot 40% from the field.

    "But he must have been lighting it up from outside, right?"

    Um, no, he was under 30% from 3-pt land.

    "At least he must have been JJ-like from the FT stripe, right?"

    Not quite. Well under 70% from the line.

    So, getting him to 30 points took 24 field goal attempts and 16 free throw attempts. Not exactly a model of offensive efficiency.
    he also had 6 rebounds and 6 assists. He was going to miss lots of shots because our huge interior didn't need to do much work defending theirs...so they could hedge a lot to help the drive...with better players around him, he doesn't need to take that many shots and gets a bit more room to drive.
    1200. DDMF.

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by spinoza View Post
    Well prepared Lehigh may have known Duke offensive set signals

    From Sportsillustratedcnn.com:

    Lehigh had all the answers. If it seemed as if the Mountain Hawks knew what Duke was going to run, it's because they did. At several points Duke would flash its signals for an offensive set only to have Head Coach Reed and his assistants spring to their feet, flashing the same signals and calling out the plays to their defense.

    Asked later if they knew what was coming, Reed grinned and said, "We pride ourselves on being one of the nation's most prepared teams, and this was one of the longest preps we've ever had."



    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...uke/index.html

    Lehigh seemed well prepared and had a lot of time to get ready to play Duke.
    Still, we could have won if only we hit a few more 3's.


    I've wondered about this before. Seems like we throw up a hand signal for the play we're going to run almost every possession...do other teams do this as often? If we aren't changing the play signals it should get pretty obvious to anyone who watches some tape what we're going to do.

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    While it might sound sacreligious to even ask, but I will anyway. We had about 1 week to prepare for Lehigh ad everyone knew or should have known what a terrific player McComber, ( probably spelling it wrong) is. Wasn't there a defensive scheme to set up to try and negate him. Obviously I am not a coach and my knowledge of coaching basketball is extremely limited, but if one player on the opposing team is so dominant, then you have to make some defensive adjustments to try and limit him.

    Secondly, Duke lived and died with the 3 and last night it was not working, so why not at half time come up with another offensive scheme?

    For that matter, in the week of preparation shouldn't the coaches have had an alternate if the 3s were not working?
    All fair questions.

    As we've discussed all season long a guard like C.J. is poison to us. This kid isn't a fluke, one of the writers on SI did an article breaking down each region and the players to watch, he made specific mention of C.J.

    I'm not sure there's much you can do to change your offensive gameplan, especially once you're in the middle of the game if your pieces are limited, which for this team they were.

    I fully agree with point #3, which brings me to the Kelly injury and how badly it was diagnosed. We went from, "day to day", to something which seems a lot more serious. Was this some of the, "gamesmanship", which we discussed last year in regards to Irving's injury? I do think we could have made better use of Hairston. One of Dre's best plays last night was the pick and roll he ran with Josh. That shot was there all night, but we only used it once, granted Josh had several other shots and didn't convert, but they were all clean looks and didn't require the guards to pound the ball looking for difficult shots. Dre actually seemed to get huge lift when he made that pass.

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    This was a down year in the ACC.The winning record does not mean we played great basketball. This team lost 3 games in Cameron. Their offense was simply awful for about the last 3 weeks. Ryan Kelly's absence does not give these guys any excuse. Find some guards that have some foot speed. I know there is is one in the Norfolk area named Cat Barber. Cook may get better, but Duke has simply not recruited that well. Yes we got Irving and Rivers,but you need to fill positions.Coack K's argument about he recruits players reminds me we were undersized at the WF position all season. Preparation for post season play last 2 years has been the Coaching Staff's fault. Arizona buzzsawed Duke in the sweet 16. I think the program needs to look in the mirror and start working harder. At the moment the Duke Brand is not looking so great.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    Does Coach K have to take any responsibility?
    The players were very gracious in blaming themselves, but personally I was frustrated with the choices made by the coaching staff pertaining to our offensive scheme over the season as a whole. It was not Lehigh in particular, although the chickens came home to roost with respect to our offensive scheme last night. I am sure the coaches did their usual excellent job in scouting Lehigh and running practices this past week.

    And I am not saying Coach K is not the best coach in the land or that I would trade him for anyone else. But I thought we left some potential on the table this year, more so than any year in recent memory.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
    But I thought we left some potential on the table this year, more so than any year in recent memory.
    Really? The key word for this squad is "over-achieved." Outside of Rivers there is very little effective athleticism at the guard spots, and at those same spots they couldn't pass, making the post players less able to be effective. The talent level on this team should realistically have ceilinged out at a #2 seed, which we got, but when the players aren't making shots and refuse to make good passes, there's nothing in the scheme that can change that.


    I really hope State wins this freaking tournament. I love that team.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by sjl14 View Post
    Have you even watched last night's press conference? Mason himself admitted that he felt that he didn't need more opportunities. We needed to get scores as a team, which we obviously struggled to do.
    Our inability to provide Mason with timely and well positioned entry passes and his ineffectiveness in passing out of double teams prevented us from fully utilizing our biggest advantage (especially with an awol 3 ball). He was slow in recognizing the double team and had the ball stolen from him on at least one occassion when he brought the ball below his waist. He also had great post position a few times and did not receive a pass because our guards failed to see him or failed to create a proper passing angle. As far as his press conference comments are concerned, I can see why he'd be reluctant to indirectly criticize his teammates and the strategy implemented by the coaching staff.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    This season will be remembered for two things- the Rivers' shot and the loss to a 15 seed. The good news is that the pain from yesterday's loss will fade and you will see replays of the Rivers' shot...
    I will remember this loss as the game that finally buried "The Show" in the Duke/UNC rivalry.

    My Duke friends will never again be able to bring up the ghost of Harold Arceneaux and the Weber St. loss in the '99 tourney without me replying "Lehigh" and having the last word on tourney upsets...(for a while, at least).

    UNC was a 3 seed and Weber St. was a 14 seed in that loss, and we know Lehigh was a 15 seed and Duke was a 2 in this one, so...

    Duke fans got about 12 good years out of that dig, count your blessings and take your medicine Dukie's for this one....

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by naclsean View Post
    I believe Thornton made the best comment after the game when he said we will be at the gym tomorrow practicing.
    I like Tyler's spirit, mostly [see below for a minor qualm]. And I like CDu's suggestions re things our guys should practice before next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Hopefully the guys that stick around learn from the late season losses. Dawkins needs to really work on his ballhandling, defense, and focus. Curry needs to get more confident with the ball in his hands so that he can attack off the dribble more often. Cook needs to get healthy, improve his defense and shooting. Mason (if he comes back) needs to work on his post moves and getting more comfortable/confident around the basket so that his athleticism can take over. Rivers (if he comes back) needs to improve his decision making, his ability to play off the ball (he had pretty much one play - dribble back to halfcourt, call for a high screen and try to drive), his court vision and passing skills, and his free throw shooting. And hopefully Gbinije, Murphy, and Marshall just continue to improve in all aspects so that maybe they can add some diversity to the lineup.
    For the most part, my thoughts spring from the very thing that most interested me - pretty close to an obsession, actually - all season long, and about which I posted intermittently: K's early-season reference [I heard it on his weekly TV show] to the staff's emphasis on “attention to detail.” From the beginning I have associated this with, in large part, basketball fundamentals. But several of our guys didn't sufficiently [if at all] correct their respective detail-deficiencies: Andre’s handle, Miles’ and Mason’s footwork and rhythm dribbles/bringing ball down, perimeter players’ inability to execute basic entry pass, moving screens, lack of block-out, poor court-sense-awareness, foolish fouls by several players, even late-season.

    I will use the foolish fouls as a segue to a tangential concern, going forward, about Tyler and Quinn, both of whom have shown plenty of promise, and who [even if Seth plays some PG next year] are K's 2-headed PG for the next 2 years. I didn't much care for Tyler's physical-woofing foul on McCollum with 1:06 left in the game. I understand that Tyler was trying to play smart by keeping the ball out of McCollum's hands; but with the 35-second clock winding down, what Duke needed was a stop without fouling, and Tyler pretty obviously was courting the ref's whistle. He got it.

    Going forward, I hope Tyler will be a leader and absolutely fierce defender, but not a woofer. [Want fierce on-ball? Watch baby-faced Aaron Craft.] On woofing, ditto for Quinn, whose chest-out Duke-shirt-woofing a few seconds after Austin's wonderful shot over Zeller was dumb. I hope Quinn will become a great PG, not an embarrassing woofer.

    As for my hopes about player improvement, I have one thought that I fear might be seen as some combination of radical, radically harsh, and/or radically foolish. I intend this as constructive criticism; I know you'll let me know if I'm way off base here....

    If either Austin or Mason returns, and definitely if both return, I hope Andre will redshirt. My recommendation does not depend on Shabazz coming, or anyone else beyond Rasheed. Andre arrived at Duke a year early, and after a real contribution to the 2010 NC, he has not developed much beyond a streaky 3-bomber. It's in his interest - if it would not substantially hurt the team in 2012-'13 - to work a long, long time on his handle. Cross-over, low dribble, attack the basket, pull-up [going left and right].

    It's in his interest, further, to sit on the bench for a year and really watch the game with a specific commitment to noticing dozens of little moments that constitute smart play, good defense, spacing on the floor, movement without the ball, entry passes - dozens of things. It's in his interest to talk about what he sees with coaches, for a year. CDu mentions Andre's focus. Andre's understanding of the game is underdeveloped, passive, way behind what it should be for a rising senior who plans to win a NC his senior year and go on to play pro somewhere. Andre needs time and "attention to detail" to become a really good player, as opposed to merely a sweet shooter. He needs a makeup year, even a "selfish" year, to replace the "selfless" year when he matriculated early to help Duke when it desperately needed wing help. What Duke needs now is for Andre to reach his potential; I am skeptical that he can come anywhere near reaching it over the summer.

    Scenario 1 -- Austin returns, Andre redshirts. 10 players potentially in rotation, gradually reduces to 8-9-man rotation. Several good 3-bombers here.
    - PG - Tyler, Quinn [Seth]
    - Wings - Austin, Seth, Michael, Rasheed
    - Bigs - Ryan, Marshall, Josh, Alex

    Scenario 2 -- Mason returns, Andre redshirts. 10 players, gradually 8-9-man rotation. Fewer 3-bombers, but hardly a weakness; a bit more O-variety.
    - PG - Tyler, Quinn [Seth]
    - Wings - Seth, Alex, Michael, Rasheed
    - Bigs - Mason, Ryan, Marshall, Josh, [Alex]

    Scenario 3 -- Mason and Austin both return, Andre redshirts. 11 players, gradually 8-9-man rotation. Preseason top-3, even without Andre.
    - PG - Tyler, Quinn [Seth]
    - Wings - Austin, Seth, Alex, Michael, Rasheed
    - Bigs - Mason, Ryan, Marshall, Josh [Alex]

  11. #171

    Some numbers

    I have only gone through about half the posts, so I apologize if these two stats are already posted:

    Points off turnovers-LU 13,DU 6.
    Fast break points-LU 14,DU 2.

    As noted throughout the season, we're not that athletic, especially against quick guards, but that's been happening for years. This year we couldn't make up for that weakness, especially at the end of the season.

    Just wait til next year. Go Duke and thank you Miles!

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I will remember this loss as the game that finally buried "The Show" in the Duke/UNC rivalry.

    My Duke friends will never again be able to bring up the ghost of Harold Arceneaux and the Weber St. loss in the '99 tourney without me replying "Lehigh" and having the last word on tourney upsets...(for a while, at least).

    UNC was a 3 seed and Weber St. was a 14 seed in that loss, and we know Lehigh was a 15 seed and Duke was a 2 in this one, so...

    Duke fans got about 12 good years out of that dig, count your blessings and take your medicine Dukie's for this one....
    Hey man. That's great.

    In all seriousness, I'd forgotten about Weber State until you brought it up. That game was pretty crazy, huh?

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    Hey man. That's great.

    In all seriousness, I'd forgotten about Weber State until you brought it up. That game was pretty crazy, huh?
    Glad your accident was relatively minor... And yes that was one crazy game.

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Annandale, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    I actually didn't see the game. My fiancee and I were on our way to a bar/restaurant to watch a DJ we were thinking of booking for our wedding (and in my case, to watch the second half of the game), when a guy made a left turn directly into us at an intersection for a head-on collision. The other guy was at fault and there was nothing I could have done. Luckily, we were both relatively okay -- I was somehow completely unblemished, and she had some bumps and bruises but nothing more. While I was standing outside giving the police report, my phone was blowing up with texts and tweets about the Duke game, and I honestly couldn't care less. I just kept seeing the other car coming at us, and I was relieved my fiancee was okay. (Me? I'm indestructible.)

    I know it's a cliche, but something like that really puts a Duke loss, even one in the first round to a Patriot League school, in perspective. What are you going to do? They just didn't have it, especially without Kelly, whom I have a whole new respect for. But there are SO many more important things in life to think about and worry about. You know? Duke's a big part of our lives, but it's not even close to all there is.
    Thank you for sharing this story. This is what I was looking for when the boards were sadly closed last night. Oh well so much for a community being a group that is there for you when you need them.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    Really? The key word for this squad is "over-achieved." Outside of Rivers there is very little effective athleticism at the guard spots, and at those same spots they couldn't pass, making the post players less able to be effective. The talent level on this team should realistically have ceilinged out at a #2 seed.
    I think we have a LOT of talent and plenty of athleticism on this team. I've waited years for a Duke team with this kind of athleticism and talent and experience at the 4/5 positions (Miles, Mason, Ryan).

    Seth is a fantastic offensive weapon. We have one of the deadliest 3-pt shooters in the nation in Dre (who is very athletic even if he doesn't seem to make much use of it).

    IMO we had national championship caliber talent on this team. With guys like Austin and Seth and bigs who can run and jump out of the gym like Mason and Miles, the high pick and roll should have been the foundation of one of the most devastating Duke offenses in years.

    But mystifyingly, we never developed it beyond merely a high dribble screen.

    With three point shooters like Dre, Ryan, Austin and Seth, there is almost no excuse for taking a contested three. Yet we often ended up shooting contested threes.

    With our mobile bigs, we should have feasted much more on layups and dunks using back screens, and gotten much more kick-out open threes.

    The telling statistic is how pitiful we were in assists. We simply didn't develop our timing and passing skills. We had the talent to do so, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    I really hope State wins this freaking tournament. I love that team.
    Me too. Wouldn't it be fantastic if they meet the baby blues again with a better set of refs!

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I agree , we had a good regular season, but unfortuneately you are based on what you do in the post season. If Kentucky does not make the Final 4 ,I would say that they had a disappointing season.
    If this is the only lens through which you evaluate a season, I suspect college hoops is the wrong sport for you. You might look to the nba - they have a post season format better suited for reflecting a season's accomplishments.

    -jk

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I agree , we had a good regular season, but unfortuneately you are based on what you do in the post season. If Kentucky does not make the Final 4 ,I would say that they had a disappointing season.
    Well then things are completely out of whack if a season is viewed as a disappointing one if you don't make the final four. UK has already had a terrific season in my opinion.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by heyman25 View Post
    This was a down year in the ACC.The winning record does not mean we played great basketball. This team lost 3 games in Cameron. Their offense was simply awful for about the last 3 weeks. Ryan Kelly's absence does not give these guys any excuse. Find some guards that have some foot speed. I know there is is one in the Norfolk area named Cat Barber. Cook may get better, but Duke has simply not recruited that well. Yes we got Irving and Rivers,but you need to fill positions.Coack K's argument about he recruits players reminds me we were undersized at the WF position all season. Preparation for post season play last 2 years has been the Coaching Staff's fault. Arizona buzzsawed Duke in the sweet 16. I think the program needs to look in the mirror and start working harder. At the moment the Duke Brand is not looking so great.
    Start working harder? You think hard work is the problem? So win the team wins the ACC title, and makes the sweet sixteen, that only constitutes an ok season? I think anytime a team loses the number one pick in the draft, the ACC player of the year, and a forward who scored 2000 points and grabbed 1000 rebounds, you are looking at a rebuilding season.

    I think the fans unrealistic expectations are what need some work.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    If this is the only lens through which you evaluate a season, I suspect college hoops is the wrong sport for you. You might look to the nba - they have a post season format better suited for reflecting a season's accomplishments.

    -jk

    I think it's safe to say that more than four teams have good seasons every year. Our team did, arguably, have a very good season, considering we were able to beat 2 teams that later became number one seeds (one of which was UNC in a timeless comeback) and 1 team that became a number 2 seed. Having one bad game in the first round of the tournament doesn't erase that.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I don't know if it's glue or dope you guys are sniffing, but I want some.

    sagegrouse
    Excuse me, but you should re-read my post and see if I made any claim worthy of the insinuation you make.

    It began with "IDK" - which means "I don't know" and I noted that 3 of our coaches were from a relatively down time in the K era. If you read my earlier post you'll note that I also said that I don't think we were out-coached in the Lehigh game. Collins, K, and Wojo were on the sideline for our 2010 title and I recognize that.

    It appears you read far more into my post than was ever written or intended.

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