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  1. #21

    great win

    I am not sure what others are expecting, but I thought this was a great win against an outstanding defensive team. Jon shot great, Kyle and Nolan had solid games, and our big-men-by-committee (particularly Z and Lance) did what we needed to win.

    I hope that we will see continued progress by Mason in February, but I confess I am not optimistic that we will see a major "breakthrough." Lance is doing a great job right now, but the versatility that Mason can bring would really help our squad overall. To earn minutes, though, he needs to play better defensively (fewer fouls, fewer reaches, not getting beat back-door).

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i actually thought it was a gritty win....they were having their way with duke till about 5 min to go and then duke pushed back...


    i liked the fact that they won a gritty game at home....by 14...

  3. #23
    I like the fact that (minus the hit the Miles took) they won't be too battered to face Gtown. I'll take it.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)

    Observations and questions

    Another conference win at home. Excellent. Didn't really expect a blowout tonight, although was hopeful. I didn't get to see this one, so am taking an "inside-the-box-score" approach to trying to understand what happened. I see that Nolan had a rough shooting night and that Kyle had a rough shooting night from 3pt range (3-10, vs. 4-5 from 2). I assume Nolan was a real focal point of their D and that this contributed to his issues can someone confirm this?

    Also, 10 3pt attempts from Kyle jumps out at me. Jumbo, what would be your assessment of the quality of those shots? I'm happy that Kyle seems to be finding ways to score these days. What would you say his plan of attack was? Tonight, he may not have been especially efficient from 3 range but he did put up 20 points on 15 shots in a contest that remained competitive throughout. That's effective. It's good to him becoming a more reliable scorer again of late. He has come on some, statistically.

    Another question for the board, what was the tempo of this game like? We scored in the 70s, which I think is about where we hit maximum efficiency, with a moderate pace and a focus on defense. Is that about where we were tonight or was the game just uptempo, frenetic and sloppy, leading to lower scores, despite the faster tempo?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Our D was really disruptive tonight. But FSU's backcourt is not strong. We eventually found a way to contain Alabi. Kudos to Miles and Zoubek.

    We did have a patented Offensive swoon however. That was not encouraging. And it was difficult for our big 3 to drive by FSU defenders in the 2nd half, so we could not break out of the funk easily. Jon's bucket that bumped us from 51 to 53 points (IIRC) was gutsy and stopped the bleeding. He will that in.

    Agree with what has been said on Mason. At some point, we need to put the ball in his hands and spend 3-4 possessions in a row through him to get him going. Sometimes you have to live with mistakes to find that upside for March. Our ceiling is defined by Mason in many ways.

    Zoubek and LT have been so steady on the Defensive end for us.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    As others have said, an ACC win is an ACC win. I thought Kyle had his best game in weeks, even if his stats don't jump out. He played much more comfortable and in his element, I didn't think he was taking bad 3's - just clanking some good ones. It was weird to see him miss so many long... makes me think his wrist must be playing a role.

    It is a bit sobering to see that Mason and Miles are just not quite where we hoped they'd be by the meat of ACC play though. It is also a little discouraging to see that at this point in time, SSS + Lance and Z seems to be K's prefered lineup, which is still essentially 3 on 5 on offense with Lance and Z bouncing from screen to screen and our guards dribbling around doing their best to create shots for each other every single trip down the floor. There's an element of "we've seen this movie before" as you watch a game like this unfold, and with only Miles getting double-digit minutes outside of the five upperclassmen. I can understand why people aren't exactly giddy even though it was a good win.

    I also don't like that Miles seems to be getting more and more deferential on the offensive end. He hardly ever really looks for the ball anymore, and I feel like I'm watching him begin to shift his mindset entirely into the screener-rebounder role our bigs have all played recently. Maybe it's by design, but I just don't like that style of basketball. I don't think it gives you a margin for error, and it just doesn't feel like team ball.

    And finally, I have to make a 1-A comment tonight. I know Mason has been making some boneheaded mistakes, and doesn't play nearly as smart as Lance and Z... but he also does a lot of good things. He's learning. I would really like to see him get double digit minutes in a game like this, at home, where we often had a double digit lead. That's all. Apologies if this came off rant-ish.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Flow

    A lot of the apparent problems with our offense in this came can be chalked up to crummy flow. Especially in the second half when our lead got whittled down, there were a BUNCH of crappy calls (at one point the fouls were 10 on us, 3 on FSU). The guys looked frustrated at the way the game was being called. From where I sat it looked like K was them to ignore the refs and just play, and we pushed the lead back out to 8 or 9.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    A few thoughts:

    1. I just watched some of the replay of the game again and noticed that during the FSU comeback, the offense was very vanilla. It wasn't that we jacked up shots that we shouldn't have (38% 3PA/FGA is high, but not an unreasonable number for any given game) or made particularly bad plays, but there was very little action, especially in the lane. Duke started scoring and put the game away when there were perimeter guys moving around the court with and without the ball that allowed for easier shots and allowed big guys to get into offensive rebounding position.

    2. Florida State is a big team. I didn't have that much of a problem with getting out-rebounded, even by a large amount, but the one's that got me were on the missed free throws. Not that I expect it to never happen, but they got an awful lot of those (Of coarse, they had to miss a lot of FT's to get the chance).

    3. Over 75% of our points came from the big three. I don't think that means that they need to share the ball more or throw it inside. I think it means that they're really really good. It's not a secret who Duke's best scorers are, and one of the best defensive teams in the league couldn't contain them.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post

    3. Over 75% of our points came from the big three. I don't think that means that they need to share the ball more or throw it inside. I think it means that they're really really good. It's not a secret who Duke's best scorers are, and one of the best defensive teams in the league couldn't contain them.
    I just wanted to highlight this point again. I think that we as fans sometimes forget this - but Kyle, Nolan, and Jon are great.

    If at the beginning of the year, Kyle was our top contender for ACC player of the year, and through the first part of the season Jon was that guy, I think you can make the case right now, that it's Nolan. And part of our offensive struggle in the 2nd half was clearly that FSU made more of an effort to take Nolan away from us.

    But as Coach K said in the post-game, wouldn't it be great if we had all three of them have a great game on the same night?

  10. #30
    Man, it's been an interesting season so far.

    Question: Since NCSU, have we regained our composure but scaled back our ambitions?

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcluhan View Post
    Man, it's been an interesting season so far.

    Question: Since NCSU, have we regained our composure but scaled back our ambitions?
    That depends. What the heck does that mean?

  12. #32

    Thomas was indispensible today

    In a game where Zoubek fouled out, Miles Plumlee got hurt, and Mason a non factor, Thomas provided valuable defense and minutes. We needed big guys today and Thomas stepped up.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by hakentotoro View Post
    In a game where Zoubek fouled out, Miles Plumlee got hurt, and Mason a non factor, Thomas provided valuable defense and minutes. We needed big guys today and Thomas stepped up.
    Which goes to show we now have something we've lacked for a while:

    Depth inside

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Another interesting tidbit. Despite getting easily out-rebounded, second chance points were Duke-7, FSU-5. They had 15 offensive boards and got 5 points out of it.

  15. #35
    ZOUBEK

    STOP FOULING

    That is all.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    That depends. What the heck does that mean?
    OK, that literally made me laugh out loud.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)

    ? for you Jumbo

    Jumbo, did you see my question above re: singler's 3s. Was curious about whether you thought he showed good selection on his 3pointers tonight (he was 3-10, vs 4-5 from 2pt range).

    It was an honest question, not a snide remark. I haven't seen the game and was dissecting the box score trying to see what I could glean from it. I'd like your honest opinion on the subject. You just posted on the thread again, so I'm hoping you see this and respond to the question.

    I just looking for some input from someone who saw the game and thinks about such things. As I mentioned when I asked the question, I think Singler's scoring has come on quite a bit, I'm happy with his progress. I had hoped that would make it clear I wasn't attempting to be a smart aleck, not that I usually am a smart aleck on this board anyway.

    All right, enough.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon

    Good Threes

    Quote Originally Posted by devildownunder View Post
    Jumbo, did you see my question above re: singler's 3s. Was curious about whether you thought he showed good selection on his 3pointers tonight (he was 3-10, vs 4-5 from 2pt range).

    It was an honest question, not a snide remark. I haven't seen the game and was dissecting the box score trying to see what I could glean from it. I'd like your honest opinion on the subject. You just posted on the thread again, so I'm hoping you see this and respond to the question.

    I just looking for some input from someone who saw the game and thinks about such things. As I mentioned when I asked the question, I think Singler's scoring has come on quite a bit, I'm happy with his progress. I had hoped that would make it clear I wasn't attempting to be a smart aleck, not that I usually am a smart aleck on this board anyway.

    All right, enough.
    Not Jumbo, but I thought almost all of the three pt attempts by Duke were good shots - catch and shoot, squared up, reasonably open. These were created by good ball movement around the perimeter. Having Andre's first 3 swish was a highlight of the night!

    Neal

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)
    Quote Originally Posted by Neals384 View Post
    Having Andre's first 3 swish was a highlight of the night!

    Neal
    meant to comment on that. very nice to see that andre knocked one down, you're right. Let's hope it's a sign he's getting back to feeling like himself.

  20. #40

    Game Thoughts

    It was difficult to score against FSU in the half court. When we turned them over, we had an easier time since their defense wasn't back and fully organized. The threes were available in the first half and Jon was hot while Kyle was not. Kyle made up for it with a variety of moves where he got contested shots in the lane and made them. That seemed to get him going. Dawkins was camped in the corner when he came in and did get off one three under some pressure. He has to move without the ball to be more effective. I thought Kyle started to feel it from the 3 poiint line in the second half, so perhaps that will carry over against Gelrgetown.

    Lance Thomas was superb tonight. He was everywhere on defense and helped keep our offense moving as well. Great to see his improvement this year. I didn't expect him to show so much as a senior, but his play is miles better than last year. Zoubek also played well, but has trouble staying in the game. We need him against the really big teams.

    In the second half, FSU picked up their intensity on defense and we were getting very few open looks on the perimeter. To see us unable to get shots off and have the clock run out is an indication of what FSU did. They also crashed the boards and we couldn't compete with their size and intensity. I thought Kyle and Lance did well to keep us alive at least a few times.

    Milles played solid defense but was unable to make a big offensive contribution. With the FSU size inside, it was really difficult for the big men to score. Mason just seemed out of his element again. He has the tools and it is just a matter of time until he does a lot more.

    Another great win for this team. Experience counts.

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