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  1. #461
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    Funny how duke supporters can disagree about Rivers,,,,I too watched every game and saw it pretty much opposite of what you and other rivers supporters saw. In my opinion he rarely played the top of the key pick and roll properly...he simply drove to the basket never looking for the big man or the wing man who were open many times...he just drove the lane making 50 % of his layups with his right hand regardless of the side of the basket he was on...the other 50% of the time he was fouled where he hit about 65% of his foul shots or was blocked or turned the ball over. Fundamentally he has a lot to learn, IMO if he wants a steady starting job in the nba.

    He is not in the same space as Kyrie who could do all of the above significantly better and was ready for the nba. He would have been better off staying at Duke under the guidance of coach K learning the "fist" concept and all that it entails, IMO.
    Do you think he would grow more on Duke next year or more on an NBA team? Please explain.

    I assume he can grow more in the NBA - longer season, more practices, more games, better competition, more offense-friendly rules, NBA veterans to whip the young'uns into shape and adjust their attitudes and games.

    That's no knock on Coach K, it's just the reality of the limits of college vs. the competition and increased hours of basketball in the NBA.

  2. #462
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Do you think he would grow more on Duke next year or more on an NBA team? Please explain.

    I assume he can grow more in the NBA - longer season, more practices, more games, better competition, more offense-friendly rules, NBA veterans to whip the young'uns into shape and adjust their attitudes and games.

    That's no knock on Coach K, it's just the reality of the limits of college vs. the competition and increased hours of basketball in the NBA.
    Sounds similar to why Alex Murphy left HS school early to redshirt at Duke.

  3. #463
    Here's my take on the rumor mill stuff:

    WHY play games with the media and the fans?
    There must be some reason why the story broke yesterday? And all of the major news outlets are reporting HE's gone. It was the lead story (I think) on PTI. So why is his family saying he hasn't decided yet?

    I just don't understand it...but what I really think is happening is the Rivers family IS having a discussion this weekend...on what agent to hire. That would be my take on it, but you guys are lot more knowledgable than me.

  4. #464
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    Here's my take on the rumor mill stuff:

    WHY play games with the media and the fans?
    There must be some reason why the story broke yesterday? And all of the major news outlets are reporting HE's gone. It was the lead story (I think) on PTI. So why is his family saying he hasn't decided yet?

    I just don't understand it...but what I really think is happening is the Rivers family IS having a discussion this weekend...on what agent to hire. That would be my take on it, but you guys are lot more knowledgable than me.
    Why would you even think you're being considered in this process? Turn the tv and computer off and you wont have a clue. How many Duke fans did you consider when selecting your current job?

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Why would you even think you're being considered in this process? Turn the tv and computer off and you wont have a clue. How many Duke fans did you consider when selecting your current job?
    Maybe not Duke fans, but let's remember the media is definitely being considered.

  6. #466
    As someone who posted earlier questioning whether Rivers will ever be a plus NBA player, please don't confuse that with questioning his effort on the court, or his character, or anything like that. He was my favorite player on the team last year without question. And sometimes maybe he forced the issue because it seemed like no one else was going to step up.

    Nonetheless...the comparisons to DWade are ridiculous. DWade is a player whose game has exactly the components that I criticized Rivers' game for missing (namely, decision-making, court vision, and finishing skills). But Wade came into the league already possessing those attributes. I don't believe that Rivers will be better served riding the pine for a year or two, as opposed to starring at Duke at that time. I don't think he will be able to develop these attributes in practice. To develop the particular set of skills that he is lacking, he needs actual court time...I don't think scrimmages are quite the same.

    I like Austin Rivers, I just think he's an unpolished project as far as NBA projections go, and I think he's making a mistake.

  7. #467
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Why would you even think you're being considered in this process? Turn the tv and computer off and you wont have a clue. How many Duke fans did you consider when selecting your current job?
    Jeez, that's a little harsh, don't you think Supa? I think I got timed out for a comment like that once. But you are a mod so you'd know better than I...

    If fans don't matter then why does DBR exist? Or Blue Planet? Or ESPN?

    I hear what DukeGirl4Ever is sayng as they are using the fan base to generate hype and buzz because they (The Rivers) think it might help young Austin's prospects. And she is none too happy about being played like that. Nor am I.

    I think this emphasises why the NBA ought to adopt eligibility rules from Major League Baseball - allow kids to come into the D-league or even the Big if they are ready from high school. But if not, kids gotta wait until they are 21 (three years into college) before entering the draft.

  8. #468
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    Maybe not Duke fans, but let's remember the media is definitely being considered.
    WHY would the media need to be considered in a decision to play PRO basketball? The media is seeking him out. He has no need to "play" with their emotions. They will get the scoop WHEN they get it. Everyone knows the deadlines but if you're trying to be the first to get a "scoop" then I doubt he's concerned and he's definitely not factoring it into his decision.

  9. #469
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    Jeez, that's a little harsh, don't you think Supa? I think I got timed out for a comment like that once. But you are a mod so you'd know better than I...

    If fans don't matter then why does DBR exist? Or Blue Planet? Or ESPN?

    I hear what DukeGirl4Ever is sayng as they are using the fan base to generate hype and buzz because they (The Rivers) think it might help young Austin's prospects. And she is none too happy about being played like that. Nor am I.

    I think this emphasises why the NBA ought to adopt eligibility rules from Major League Baseball - allow kids to come into the D-league or even the Big if they are ready from high school. But if not, kids gotta wait until they are 21 (three years into college) before entering the draft.
    Not being harsh but I'm definitely being real. Fans matter but to think you're important enough to be factored into a person's lively hood is placing a little too much importance on your fandom.

    If you think your emotions are being played with then you need to pull back and wait. He's not tweeting every 20 minutes telling you guys to hold on. In fact he's gone silent. This should let you know that this is a PERSONAL decision.

    These guys are here for MUCH more than just our entertainment.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    Jeez, that's a little harsh, don't you think Supa? I think I got timed out for a comment like that once. But you are a mod so you'd know better than I...

    If fans don't matter then why does DBR exist? Or Blue Planet? Or ESPN?

    I hear what DukeGirl4Ever is sayng as they are using the fan base to generate hype and buzz because they (The Rivers) think it might help young Austin's prospects. And she is none too happy about being played like that. Nor am I.

    I think this emphasises why the NBA ought to adopt eligibility rules from Major League Baseball - allow kids to come into the D-league or even the Big if they are ready from high school. But if not, kids gotta wait until they are 21 (three years into college) before entering the draft.
    Why is it harsh? Why is it ok to imply negative things about Duke players in coaches without proof? No one has the slightest idea as to what Austin Rivers or his family is thinking or feeling at the moment. I think suggesting that Austin Rivers and his family have an ulterior motive is harsh.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Why would you even think you're being considered in this process? Turn the tv and computer off and you wont have a clue. How many Duke fans did you consider when selecting your current job?
    That's definitely not what I meant by that. That was not the best wording on my part. But, I think you assumed I meant that they were taking in to account the fan base's feelings in to consideration and they definitely will not and SHOULD not. Austin Rivers needs to make the decision that's best for him and his family. Whatever he chooses, I'll be glad I got to watch him for a year (or more).

    I think what I meant by that is that fans get to be a part of this media game of who gets to break the news story first, even if the information is not 100% accurate. Does that make more sense? In that sense, they are part of the game. I'm sorry you misinterpreted my original post.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    Jeez, that's a little harsh, don't you think Supa? I think I got timed out for a comment like that once. But you are a mod so you'd know better than I...

    If fans don't matter then why does DBR exist? Or Blue Planet? Or ESPN?

    I hear what DukeGirl4Ever is sayng as they are using the fan base to generate hype and buzz because they (The Rivers) think it might help young Austin's prospects. And she is none too happy about being played like that. Nor am I.

    I think this emphasises why the NBA ought to adopt eligibility rules from Major League Baseball - allow kids to come into the D-league or even the Big if they are ready from high school. But if not, kids gotta wait until they are 21 (three years into college) before entering the draft.
    Thanks for that, but Supa misinterpreted my post.
    It's partly my fault for not explaining because I actually do things other than spending time on the computer and it's partly his fault for reading more in to what I posted. Lately, I've need a good Duke kick because of the last loss, and I have enjoyed spending my time here with people that understand, care, and offer insightful comments. I guess that will have to change now.

    I meant the game the media is playing with us...and I wondered why there are games being played??? I did not say that the Rivers family was playing games. I have no idea.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxAMillion View Post
    Why is it harsh? Why is it ok to imply negative things about Duke players in coaches without proof? No one has the slightest idea as to what Austin Rivers or his family is thinking or feeling at the moment. I think suggesting that Austin Rivers and his family have an ulterior motive is harsh.
    I'm done. It was nice while it lasted. A brutal loss last week makes people put words in your mouth.

    That is definitely not what I meant to say.
    I never suggested the Rivers family was playing games. I think the media is playing games and I'm not sure what to believe.

  14. #474
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    I'm done. It was nice while it lasted. A brutal loss last week makes people put words in your mouth.

    That is definitely not what I meant to say.
    I never suggested the Rivers family was playing games. I think the media is playing games and I'm not sure what to believe.
    No one is putting words in your mouth. This is a totally different statment. But once again, it's like watching certain news sites - you subject YOURSELF to that. No one can play with your mind if you aren't an active participant.

    We have to learn to take things with a grain of salt and stop jumping on every press release.

    We speculated in every kind of way about Austin getting to Duke, fretted about him going to UNC, nit-picked every dribble he made, and now we think someone is playing games with someone. But let me tell you, not a thing has changed in reality. This kid has been going pro since he was in the 10th grade (I've interviewed him - I know).

  15. #475
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA

    MaxaMillion and SupaDave

    I apologize for starting a barkingfest.

    Supa - you are right, my fandom means very, very little in the realm of where and when Austin ends up cashing his $500,000 signing bonus check. And if you research my previous posts, you will see that I have supported Austin's decision for a long, long time.

    Max- I concede your articulately played point as well. The River's haven't used their noteriety and fan-based drooling to cover-up Austin's learning curve issues that Coach K has started to correct and could fix with another, maybe two more, seasons AT ALL. How could I have been SOOO Stupid? It must be the four roses...

  16. #476
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    I apologize for starting a barkingfest.
    LOL! A person with a name eerily similar to "cantankerous"? No way!



    And yes, we love to see player's development, but sometimes their games don't need to be developed for the college game. The 24 second clock changes things.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by KenTankerous View Post
    I apologize for starting a barkingfest.
    You can do that. You must have stayed at Barkingham Palace last night.

  18. #478
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    I popped on here to get some more background on the note in the front page that CBS may have jumped the gun and all I see is bickering and people jumping down others throats seemingly unjustly. I've been pissed for about a week about our loss, but I thought I could come on here and read sane comments from other fans. Are we now turning on each other??

  19. #479
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    When No One Knows Anything, ...

    Quote Originally Posted by HateCarolina View Post
    I popped on here to get some more background on the note in the front page that CBS may have jumped the gun and all I see is bickering and people jumping down others throats seemingly unjustly. I've been pissed for about a week about our loss, but I thought I could come on here and read sane comments from other fans. Are we now turning on each other??
    How dare you come onto this peaceful thread and provoke an argument!! Just kidding. No one knows anything as far as I can tell, which is the basic reason behind the lack of substance in the latests posts.

    I expect him to leave ("where there's smoke, there's fire") unless the parents have a different view and get their way.

    sage

  20. #480
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    How dare you come onto this peaceful thread and provoke an argument!! Just kidding. No one knows anything as far as I can tell, which is the basic reason behind the lack of substance in the latests posts.

    I expect him to leave ("where there's smoke, there's fire") unless the parents have a different view and get their way.

    sage

    Aus-tin Rivers.
    That Austin Rivers.
    He don't say nothin'
    But he must know somethin'
    Cause he just keeps rollin'
    He keeps rollin' along.

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