2012 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[roywhite]

I think that the distinction is that Duke didn't technically "recruit" Melchionni. He was a legacy player who Duke was happy to have on the team but probably wouldn't have necessarily sought him out if not for his father. Not to say that he wasn't a decent player but there were probably several similar level players in his class he didn't fit a particular need. Since his father was a former player and Duke had an available scholarship (the 5/8 rule not withstanding) he was offered a spot.

I think that this wasn't an issue because Melichionni was a top 100 recruit. Since Bazz is a top 5 recruit, that may raise a few more eyebrows.

That's simply not correct. Melchionni was a recruited player.

[Kedsy]

...nor the Drummond case (UConn only has 11 recruited players total)...

But UConn lost two scholarships due to their graduation rate, right? So they're only allowed 11 instead of 13. Doesn't make sense that there'd be a loophole that would allow you to get around a penalty but wouldn't be available if you weren't being penalized. And, yes, I know the NCAA often doesn't make sense, but this seems a bit beyond even their usual silliness.

[Greg_Newton]

But UConn lost two scholarships due to their graduation rate, right? So they're only allowed 11 instead of 13. Doesn't make sense that there'd be a loophole that would allow you to get around a penalty but wouldn't be available if you weren't being penalized. And, yes, I know the NCAA often doesn't make sense, but this seems a bit beyond even their usual silliness.

As I understand it, they lost three scholarships, which left them with 10. However, the limit of 13 recruited players was left unchanged, for whatever reason.

However... then there's this:

In football or basketball, a student-athlete who was recruited (see Bylaw 15.02.8) by the awarding institution and whose only source of institutional financial aid is academic aid based solely on the recipient's academic record at the certifying institution, awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, may compete without counting in the institution's financial aid team limits, provided he or she has completed at least one academic year of full-time enrollment at the certifying institution and has achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (on a 4.000 scale) at the certifying institution. (Adopted: 10/27/05 effective 8/1/06, Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

...which DOES imply that an existing player could go become a non-counter if he has at least a 3.0 GPA.

Strange because this was thoroughly discussed on another premium site, where the folks in charge were clear that it would not be possible for Curry or Rivers to pay their own way even if they wanted to.

Now I'm really curious.

[Devilsfan]

Highly unlikely, but their could always be some unforeseen happening. Example, Will Avery, Corey Maggette, etc. I for one trust Coach K. Everything is going to workout for the best, IMO.

[tropical storm]

If memory serves me Trajan Langdon no longer counted against our scholarship limit when he signed a baseball contract with the San Diego Padres prior to his Junior year. I know he was forced to give up the scholarship since he was a professional athlete in another sport, but it seems to address that when you reclassify as a non-scholarship player you don't count toward the scholarship limit.

-Storm

[yancem]

That's simply not correct. Melchionni was a recruited player.

Based on what? Scout has him as not being ranked and shows Duke as his only offer. Now it may be that the decision was made to go to Duke early enough that other schools couldn't get involved or that Duke was considered too big a leader for them to get involved, but I it was always my impression that it was his dream to play for Duke and Coach K said ok. Duke doesn't recruit many unranked players so I have to think that the strong Duke connection had to be part of the equation. Again, nothing against Melchionni, he ended up being a good player but he was not as highly ranked as Duke usually recruits.

[jimsumner]

Based on what? Scout has him as not being ranked and shows Duke as his only offer. Now it may be that the decision was made to go to Duke early enough that other schools couldn't get involved or that Duke was considered too big a leader for them to get involved, but I it was always my impression that it was his dream to play for Duke and Coach K said ok. Duke doesn't recruit many unranked players so I have to think that the strong Duke connection had to be part of the equation. Again, nothing against Melchionni, he ended up being a good player but he was not as highly ranked as Duke usually recruits.

Duke absolutely recruited Lee Melchionni. He was Duke's 5th recruit from the h.s. class of 2002. The NCAA had that 5/8 rule. Bad rule. Didn't last long. Mel accepted a scholarship offer with the understanding that he would give up the scholarship for one season if--and only if--Shavlik Randolph committed to Duke.

Which is what happened. But Lee Melchionni was never a walk-on at Duke. Neither was Trajan Langdon. Walk-on refers to recruited status not scholarship status. And both were recruited.

[JNort]

Based on what? Scout has him as not being ranked and shows Duke as his only offer. Now it may be that the decision was made to go to Duke early enough that other schools couldn't get involved or that Duke was considered too big a leader for them to get involved, but I it was always my impression that it was his dream to play for Duke and Coach K said ok. Duke doesn't recruit many unranked players so I have to think that the strong Duke connection had to be part of the equation. Again, nothing against Melchionni, he ended up being a good player but he was not as highly ranked as Duke usually recruits.

Well he was rated as a 4 star recruit and what I found said he was a top 75 player

[JasonEvans]

Based on what? Scout has him as not being ranked and shows Duke as his only offer. Now it may be that the decision was made to go to Duke early enough that other schools couldn't get involved or that Duke was considered too big a leader for them to get involved, but I it was always my impression that it was his dream to play for Duke and Coach K said ok. Duke doesn't recruit many unranked players so I have to think that the strong Duke connection had to be part of the equation. Again, nothing against Melchionni, he ended up being a good player but he was not as highly ranked as Duke usually recruits.

I am not sure how old you are, Yancem, but I am aged enough to vividly recall Lee's recruitment. He was most assuredly a highly regarded recruit and was in everyone's top 100. I found this article from the Washington Post's archives that contained the following paragraph--

Melchionni was a highly regarded recruit at Germantown Academy in Fort Washington, Pa., but he was never considered a great shooter. He had scholarship offers from schools such as Kansas, Notre Dame, North Carolina State and Villanova. But Melchionni agreed to walk on Duke's team as a freshman because the Blue Devils didn't have a scholarship to give him.

Those scholarship offers should be all the proof you need.

--Jason "I sorta feel for Lee. Because he and his family made a selfless decision to help Duke, he is often overlooked by fans and thought of as a lesser recruit-- which is simply not the case" Evans

[Johnny Chill]

I apologize if this has been cleared up elsewhere, but my understanding is that we only have 1 scholarship available if both Mason and Austin stay. So does that mean that we could get either Amile or Shabazz, but not both?

I think Rivers is gone. His value is sky high. He would be one of the top 3 SGs drafted out of him, Lamb, or Beal. Rivers has also shown that he can run the point making him versatile, in a draft that is weak on PGs.

I hope he stays though for Duke's sake.

[-bdbd]

Can any of our insiders offer any insights on the OV's of the three (?) big-time recruits on campus this weekend? Anybody notice them at the game and how the Crazies did with them? Any encouraging signs from 'bazz or Amile???

[Devilsfan]

The team provided encouragement that any of them won't have to wait their turn for PT. Saturday showed a real need for players at the highest level like sadly our opponent displayed.

[roywhite]

The team provided encouragement that any of them won't have to wait their turn for PT. Saturday showed a real need for players at the highest level like sadly our opponent displayed.

Please, easy with the hyperbole.

A recruit will be a freshman adjusting to college life and college basketball and joining a team that went 26-5 in the regular season and has nearly everybody back.
There are opportunities early for a Shabazz Muhammad, but even the best players have an adjustment.

[yancem]

I am not sure how old you are, Yancem, but I am aged enough to vividly recall Lee's recruitment. He was most assuredly a highly regarded recruit and was in everyone's top 100. I found this article from the Washington Post's archives that contained the following paragraph--



Those scholarship offers should be all the proof you need.

--Jason "I sorta feel for Lee. Because he and his family made a selfless decision to help Duke, he is often overlooked by fans and thought of as a lesser recruit-- which is simply not the case" Evans

I'm old enough that Tate Armstrong was my favorite player when I was a kid and Gene Bank's last second shot against unc was the shot I practiced over and over in my driveway, not Laettner's shot against KY. I guess I am getting hung up on what defines recruited. Andre Buckner was going to walk-on some D1 school before Duke decided that they wanted a back-up plan at the pg position. If a player is offered a scholarship to one school but decides to walk on at another (presumably better) school, I assume he's not considered a "recruited player" for that school even though he was recruited by someone else? I either forgot about or didn't know about the other offers you mention. The only offer shown on Scout was Duke's (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=10600) but they aren't always accurate. Also, it seems that I am not the only one confused since both the quote you provide and the Scout link call him a walk-on for his first year. I guess the question is if Duke not had a scholarship available for Melchionni would he have still come to Duke? I was always under the impression that the answer was yes. Of course I don't have any first hand knowledge just what I remember reading from various recruiting sites at the time.

[CDu]

I'm old enough that Tate Armstrong was my favorite player when I was a kid and Gene Bank's last second shot against unc was the shot I practiced over and over in my driveway, not Laettner's shot against KY. I guess I am getting hung up on what defines recruited. Andre Buckner was going to walk-on some D1 school before Duke decided that they wanted a back-up plan at the pg position. If a player is offered a scholarship to one school but decides to walk on at another (presumably better) school, I assume he's not considered a "recruited player" for that school even though he was recruited by someone else? I either forgot about or didn't know about the other offers you mention. The only offer shown on Scout was Duke's (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=10600) but they aren't always accurate. Also, it seems that I am not the only one confused since both the quote you provide and the Scout link call him a walk-on for his first year. I guess the question is if Duke not had a scholarship available for Melchionni would he have still come to Duke? I was always under the impression that the answer was yes. Of course I don't have any first hand knowledge just what I remember reading from various recruiting sites at the time.

But Melchionni didn't walk on to Duke. He was offered (and awarded) a scholarship to Duke prior to committing. When we ran out of scholarships for his class, he agreed to take a year off scholarship to help out the team with the full understanding that he'd have his scholarship back for the remaining 3 years. He was a recruited player who happened to be willing to go without a scholarship during his first year at Duke. Would he have turned down scholarships elsewhere to pay 4 years to come to Duke? Who knows? That was never a concern, as we had the scholarship available when he committed and we had scholarships available for the final three years after he agreed to pay his way as a freshman. Your definition of recruited player is not the same the NCAA's definition. And even so, he still fits the definition of recruited player. He was recruited by Duke and others. He was offered scholarships by Duke and others.

[DukeGirl4ever]

I keep checking back for updates from last night's visit.

I really thought if we won that game, Amile was going to commit.

Any word? Did the guys stay overnight or just for the game?

[moonpie23]

i was under the same impression....anyone got any word?

[Greg_Newton]

If anyone's curious to look in the rulebook, there's a very specific definition of what makes someone "recruited", including phone calls, LOIs, etc. It doesn't take much.

As for Amile, I'm not sure anyone is surprised that there hasn't been an announcement yet... I'd give him a week or so before I got worried at all.

[JasonEvans]

Just so we are clear, I have never heard of a quid pro quo where a team wins and automatically gets a recruit. It simply never works that way. It is true that a winning game often provides a better experience for the visiting recruit, but a kid can learn a lot about a place and its fans in a loss too.

Amile may pick Duke, he may pick someone else. I am fairly sure the result of last night's game will play not more than a tiny, tiny role in that decision... perhaps even less than that.

-Jason "I expect that even if he had committed last night, Duke would not say anything or leak anything. Amile will inform the public**, as he should" Evans

** - actually, the schools he does not pick will probably inform recruiting gurus once they have been told they are being spurned.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Just so we are clear, I have never heard of a quid pro quo where a team wins and automatically gets a recruit. It simply never works that way. It is true that a winning game often provides a better experience for the visiting recruit, but a kid can learn a lot about a place and its fans in a loss too.

Jason, you are 100% correct with this. I hope you didn't think I was implying a win = a commitment.
I should have further explained that in my post.

However, I have been following Amile's recruitment and the timetables that have been given made it sound like a decision was close. Given the fact that he was on campus this weekend, I thought a face to face commitment could be a possibility.