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  1. #181
    Anyone know why it took about 6 minutes before Scheyer got in the game? It looked like he was the 8th man or so today. Any chance he was hurt?

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    were the 5 guys to maryland all starters? also, how many of them were at the very end when we were fouling right away? i can't recall a game where ALL of the starters fouled out and all but i think paulus fouled out before the heavy fouling started.

    According to GoDuke.com, this was the first time in Duke history that all five STARTERS fouled out!

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by mehmattski View Post
    I wasn't sure about this statement, so I decided to check out the shot charts from the ACC games:

    Greg Paulus, Mid-Range game

    @ WF: 1 for 4
    MD: 1 for 4
    BC: 0 for 1
    @UNC: 0 for 1
    Miami: 0 for 2
    NCSU: 0 for 3
    @MD: 1 for 1
    @VT: none
    Clemson: 1 for 1
    @FSU: 0 for 2
    UVA: 0 for 1

    Overall in ACC Play: 4 for 16 (25%, compared to 44% beyond the arc and 48% on all 2 point shots).
    I came up with some different numbers, using the shot charts found here:

    http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball...d/ACC/20080217

    @ WF: 1 for 4
    MD: 1 for 3*
    BC: 0 for 1
    @UNC: 0 for 1
    Miami: 0 for 1*
    NCSU: 1 for 2*
    @MD: 1 for 1
    @VT: none
    Clemson: 1 for 1
    @FSU: 0 for 1*
    UVA: 0 for 0*

    *differs from the quoted post

    Take it with a grain of salt, since the charts and shot data there are a bit inconsistent. Based on these numbers, Greg has hit 5 of 15 (33%). OK, not lighting the world on fire, but I still think he's got some potential to make an impact. I would agree that he's not going to be very effective with a guy in his face. The original poster (gofurman on page 6) was making the point that sometimes teams give him an open shot from mid-range and that he wished Greg could take advantage of that. He's not quite there yet, but I think he could be with a little work on that part of his game.

  4. #184

    View From The Stands

    I picked a wonderful away game to waste gas and ticket money on. But as said in another post I had a really bad feeling about this game all day. I have been to several Wake Forrest vs. Duke games over the years and I'm used to Wake playing them hard. And not to sound like a UNC fan but it seems like every year I go they hire three refs from the MMA to call the game. Yes there were obvious fouls for both teams. But anyone who says Duke gets all the calls can view video of this game and shut their yap. I don't know how things looked on TV. But from the stands it looked like Duke had glue on the bottom of their feet, was trying to make threes with one eye closed and a hand in their face and Wake made shots they don't normally make. The use of video, sound effects and obnoxious yellow and black tie dyes that wouldn't be allowed in a Grateful Dead show reminded me of UNLV in the early 90's. But I did have fun when the fans were screaming Wake....Forrest over and over, inserting Gump...Forrest...Gump. But an ACC game is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get.


    One of the most irritating thing about the Wake crowd (and perhaps this is every home crowd now when Duke comes to play, I wouldn't know someone else would have to comment) but every whistle that went against Wake they booed. For Christ's sake Duke fouled out their entire starting five, yet the idiots in the stands actually thought they were getting screwed over by the refs! From where I was sitting there were obvious calls, they booed. There were times when a Wake player mugged a Duke guy, they cheered seeing no foul. And they even broke into a chant of "refs suck" after the Singler incident when he was trying to stand with a guard on his back. Apparently they thought Singler somehow desreved a foul for giving their guard a piggy back ride. I can watch any basketball game pro or college whether I have a favorite or not and be objective about the calls. Either Wake Forrest fans are the most ignorant ACC fans about what is a foul and whats not. Or these people actually feel at home they should get the benefit of the doubt on all whistles. A foul, travel and goaltend is a foul, travel and goaltend regardless of where you are playing.

    I am not for a minute suggeting Duke deserved to win this game. They played in a funk from start to finish. The drive home through a drizzly, nasty cold rain semed very appropriate but did very little to wash away the bad taste in my mouth.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    What Did Duke Learn From The Game ?

    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !!

    Did we learn that we cannot win if we don't make 3 pointers ? That is a surprise

    Did we learn that we cannot win if we don't make Free throws ? Another surprise

    Actually we did learn something from the game...Duke is not the second best team in the country. Thankfully UAB's last second shot didn't count otherwise Duke would have been ranked number 1 as the rankings would have come in before the end of the Duke-WF game..

  6. #186
    Tough loss, but not entirely unexpected. We've been flirting with disaster since about the NCState game, and eventually it was going to catch up to us. Kudos to Wake on an outstanding performance.

    Next play.

  7. #187
    The FT problem is much bigger than the 3pt problem. Every team that relies on the three is going to have good nights and bad nights, the fact that we could counter it with hitting FTs but didn't is a problem. It cost us against Pitt and while WF may have still won, it could have gone the other way had we made the shots at the stripe. We HAVE to make those if we want to go deep in the tournament.

  8. #188
    I can’t add much to ten pages of posts (I read the first page). Wake matches up well with the Devils and they had much more energy. The game reminded me of an NBA game. There was very little team play and passing, and the pushing and shoving under the basket by both teams was the worst I’ve seen this year. When one of your best one-on-one players is a complete non-factor, another is picking up fouls and the Wake perimeter players can keep up with the rest, you are in trouble, particularly when you can’t make three point shots.

    Agree with DBR writeup that two technicals and foul on drive by Henderson didn’t make sense. It seemed to me that refs played makeup after the foul by McFarland but I’m not unbiased.

    What was DBR’s point when they stated that Nelson threw the ball back hard to refs? Was he warned?

    This game shows once again that even Duke needs to bring at least their A- game against the better ACC teams.

    gw67

  9. #189
    exactly. the horrible FT shooting performance has been around for a while. I just knew that sooner or later it's going to cost us dearly. I don't know if it's a mental thing or a technical issue. But, please, let's fix it !!

  10. #190

    Whither Taylor King?

    Is it just me or does anyone else out there wonder what in the world Coach K is doing with Taylor King? Remember, the guy who put up 27 points on phenomenal three point shooting in limited playing time in a game early in the season? With a need for offensive production in the second half against Wake, Taylor sat while Scheyer went 0-8 and Golden Boy Singler threw the ball all over the place. With Nolan Smith's fine penetration, I could just visualize King hitting 5 three's in about 5 minutes to turn this game around.

    I'm sure someone will tell me King is a defensive liability, but last night nobody else was doing so hot on defense, and we needed offense. I'm sure someone will tell me King's shot has not been there recently. How would you know? He comes in, cold off the bench, misses one shot and is gone immediately. King must be demoralized- he's barely in the game, he's out. He does anything wrong, he's pulled, whereas Singler can make the most ridiculous turnovers, throwing passes practically to the stands, and he's good for 37 minutes.

    So I'm curious: was anybody else thinking, "Put King in," last night against Wake? Does anyone else think King has been getting pulled way too quickly and not given a chance?

  11. #191

    Thoughts after a good night's sleep

    Wow. We hardly did anything right last night. And all five starters out! Unbelievable.

    Two things were not our fault.

    1) Gerald Henderson's wrist.

    2) Wake plays extremely well at home.

    Everything else was our fault: terrible shooting, terrible passing, terrible ball handling. I thought our hussle was up to par, but nothing came of it.

    Too bad we only play them once this year, I would love a healthy rematch. Speaking of healthy, we gotta bench Henderson until his wrist is better. It's not doing us any favors. Start Nolan Smith until Henderson is back to 90-95%. He's playing at maybe 40% now.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Latta6970 View Post
    I picked a wonderful away game to waste gas and ticket money on. But as said in another post I had a really bad feeling about this game all day. I have been to several Wake Forrest vs. Duke games over the years and I'm used to Wake playing them hard. And not to sound like a UNC fan but it seems like every year I go they hire three refs from the MMA to call the game. Yes there were obvious fouls for both teams. But anyone who says Duke gets all the calls can view video of this game and shut their yap. I don't know how things looked on TV. But from the stands it looked like Duke had glue on the bottom of their feet, was trying to make threes with one eye closed and a hand in their face and Wake made shots they don't normally make. The use of video, sound effects and obnoxious yellow and black tie dyes that wouldn't be allowed in a Grateful Dead show reminded me of UNLV in the early 90's. But I did have fun when the fans were screaming Wake....Forrest over and over, inserting Gump...Forrest...Gump. But an ACC game is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get.


    One of the most irritating thing about the Wake crowd (and perhaps this is every home crowd now when Duke comes to play, I wouldn't know someone else would have to comment) but every whistle that went against Wake they booed. For Christ's sake Duke fouled out their entire starting five, yet the idiots in the stands actually thought they were getting screwed over by the refs! From where I was sitting there were obvious calls, they booed. There were times when a Wake player mugged a Duke guy, they cheered seeing no foul. And they even broke into a chant of "refs suck" after the Singler incident when he was trying to stand with a guard on his back. Apparently they thought Singler somehow desreved a foul for giving their guard a piggy back ride. I can watch any basketball game pro or college whether I have a favorite or not and be objective about the calls. Either Wake Forrest fans are the most ignorant ACC fans about what is a foul and whats not. Or these people actually feel at home they should get the benefit of the doubt on all whistles. A foul, travel and goaltend is a foul, travel and goaltend regardless of where you are playing.

    I am not for a minute suggeting Duke deserved to win this game. They played in a funk from start to finish. The drive home through a drizzly, nasty cold rain semed very appropriate but did very little to wash away the bad taste in my mouth.
    Try going to a game against State in RBC (which I will be doing on March 1). The fans start booing the refs when they walk on the court and several older fans are taken off in stretchers during the game screaming at K. I find their fan base to be the most ignorant of the rules in the conference (and when Md is in the league, thats guite an indictment of the red and white.)

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by korshmar View Post
    So I'm curious: was anybody else thinking, "Put King in," last night against Wake? Does anyone else think King has been getting pulled way too quickly and not given a chance?
    I was! When you've tried everything else, how on earth could King be a liability? We needed someone to spark the offense, and he had no fouls! I realize he hasn't been as much of a performer against ACC opponents, but I think he's earned more minutes.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by korshmar View Post
    So I'm curious: was anybody else thinking, "Put King in," last night against Wake? Does anyone else think King has been getting pulled way too quickly and not given a chance?
    I was hoping he'd get in near the end when we clearly needed to play catch-up, and of course he did get in when everyone fouled out. I think his minutes are going to be limited for the rest of the season, though, simply because his game is, at this moment, one-dimensional.

    I don't think he's demoralized at all, though. Whenever they show him on the bench he seems to have a great attitude, cheering on his teammates and appearing genuinely happy for their success. That speaks well of him - he has a bright future on this team.

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    The main problem I saw last night was that Wake was more ready to play and had more energy than we did. Everything else flowed, or didn't flow, because of that.

    This is still a very young team that had a bad game and got a serious reality check. The players will grow up a bit because of it so I don't consider the loss to be a major catastrophe beyond a single blemish on the season record.

  16. #196
    It is a little mysterious as to why King is not getting minutes. It must be practice related, because I watch him in the few minutes he gets each game and he gives as much effort, taking charges, deflecting passes, and overall hustle as anybody.

    As to last nights game, we need to look no further down the sat sheet to the 22 turnovers. Forget the refs and the suspect calls, all 22 turnovers were our fault and we will lose most everygame in the ACC that we turn it over 22 times IMO!

  17. #197
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Baltimore
    I didn't get to see most of the game, just the last 15 minutes of the second half. (well that's a lie, I stopped watching with 30 seconds left because it was just too painful) but it really seemed like we just never came to play. There were multiple shots, and I don't even mean open threes, but layups and the like where we just totally missed. You can't miss that kind of stuff and expect to stay in the game. Threes can stop falling, but then when you go inside and successfully cut to an open rim, you have to hit that. The reffing was aweful, as well, but they didn't make us miss those gimme shots. The two things I noticed in the short span I saw was 1) bump outs on the baseline. Didn't the playcaller address this? If you have the ball and step out of bounds, it's either out or a foul if you were bumped out. It seemed really straightforward to me, and I find it hard to believe that all of those were our players stepping out without a bump on the baseline. I'll believe one or two could be a bad camera angle on our part, but seriously? 2) the over and back call...the ball was tipped back by wake...can someone explain this to me? I confess I don't know the rules perfectly but I didn't think that was an over and back. 3) (OK I lied about two, sue me) the non call on the wake player standing over Singler with a closed fist like that? After the tech on zoubs...seriously? and 4) There was a walk on scheyer, and then on the next play, a wake player ( can't remember who) did the exact same thing, except it he completely lifted his pivot foot and put it down again (ie: a step) and no travel was called. Seriously? Yeesh.

    Like everyone's been saying...that didn't lose the game for us, but it certainly doesn't help you come back when every starter has 4 fouls and aren't allowed to play D while the opposing team can play as they like.

    I feel like this is my fault. There have only been 2 games this season where I wasn't sitting in my lucky chair/wearing lucky shorts/shirt/socks in my lucky spot hunched over in the lucky position. Pitt and Wake. I was going skiing this weekend and I figured we'd be safe this weekend against wake, plus I wanted a game to prove that the superstition was bunk so I could justify watching the next UNC game at a Duke bar with other people. You think they'd let me bring my own chair to the bar? The sad part is I'm not really kidding about that...I really would like to bring the lucky chair to the bar.
    Duke '03
    Tent 1 '99/'00

  18. #198
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Surfside Beach, SC

    Let's Get Over It!

    It hurt to watch our guys get beat last night but the operative phrase there is "get beat" which they were soundly by a Wake team that was truly fired up. (I thought Dino's pregame speech was a classic).

    We were outplayed in almost every phase of the game. Maybe in every phase! It happens.

    Hopefully our guys will learn from it and go down to Miami and win a game against another under-valued opponent. Make no mistake, every game from here on will be a dogfight.

    We had a bad game and 75% of the posts on here make it sound like our team has suddenly had a major meltdown. Not so.

    We will be a #1 seed!!!

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    were the 5 guys to maryland all starters? also, how many of them were at the very end when we were fouling right away? i can't recall a game where ALL of the starters fouled out and all but i think paulus fouled out before the heavy fouling started.
    So in seeing the 5 starters fouling out, I am trying to remember a game: The team we played had most of their starters benched for the entire game for some disciplinary action. By the end of the game, they had the student manager on the floor playing. The Crazies and Duke players wanted the kid to score in his one chance for fame, so the players stepped back and offered a free shot. The manager was so rattled by the gesture that he spazzed & double dribbled. I think he missed the second uncontested shot as well.

    Can anyone fill in the details? I think it was Laettner era....

  20. #200

    Idiots to the left of me, idiots to the right!

    Quote Originally Posted by firealleva View Post
    Try going to a game against State in RBC (which I will be doing on March 1). The fans start booing the refs when they walk on the court and several older fans are taken off in stretchers during the game screaming at K. I find their fan base to be the most ignorant of the rules in the conference (and when Md is in the league, thats guite an indictment of the red and white.)


    Fire so basically what you are saying is that is the norm in opposing arenas. Would someone like to explain is that only when their team plays Duke? For example when Henderson did a hook move to get free under the basket, even as a biased Duke fan I could clearly see that was a foul. Yet it seems when fans from other schools get a call on their player, even on obvious calls they feel they are being robbed.

    I liken this to a football game where the defensive guy is pulling the recievers jersey and the refs call interferance, yet the fans go balistic their team got called for a foul. Has the anti-duke tsunami grown so strong that it has made opposing fans blind or down right stupid? We Duke fans in general are probably the most knowledgable fans in America about the entire game. As much as I hate to say it UNC fans though repulsive also know the game pretty well, like UK, Kansas etc. But some schools have fans that either don't know (insert your wn curse word) about the game and the rules or Duke is so despised through out the entire nation that fans feel a seperate set of rules apply when playing them.

    I am NOT suggesting Duke did not commit their fair share of fouls last night even with the questional calls and no calls through out the game. But I have seen one team get more fouls called against them and the head coach point out the discrepancy to the refs. The number of fouls called on both teams is not supposed to be equal to make it fair. If yor team is committing more fouls you might want to teach them better defense and to stop hacking. And again those who say Duke gets all the calls are so full of equestrian fecal matter it's running out their ears. I've seen very few games where five players on one team fouled out, even in an over time game. For the entire starting five to foul out in unprecidented in Duke history and I know I've never seen it happen to any other team.

    Thanks for your input Fire. At least I know it's just not Wake fans who look at games through bumble bee glasses. It's been a while since I've seen a game at Cameron, bt are the Duke fans in attendance anywhere near as blindly biased about blatant calls?

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