903!! MBB: Duke 74, Michigan State 69 Post Game Thread

[Kedsy]

While I agree to a certain extent that K isn't likely to play a very deep bench late in the season, I just don't think we can rule it out at this point. There are too many guys with potential and too much opportunity to earn time to say that the Seth-Austin-Dre-Ryan-Miles-Mason-Tyler rotation is all there is, long-term, for this team. There is no telling how guys like Quinn and Alex, as you mentioned, are going to develop- to say nothing of Gbinije and Hairston. I don't know that we can summarize this Duke team as easily as past teams, simply because there is SO much room to grow and develop.

Just my 2 cents.

The deepest Coach K Duke team ever (1997-98) still only went 7 deep in close games by the end of the year. And this was a team that had 10 guys average double-figure minutes over the course of the season, and in tough early games went 8 or 9 deep. Our current team is only going 7 deep in tough early games.

So you may be right, but history suggests otherwise.

[DukieTiger]

The deepest Coach K Duke team ever (1997-98) still only went 7 deep in close games by the end of the year. And this was a team that had 10 guys average double-figure minutes over the course of the season, and in tough early games went 8 or 9 deep. Our current team is only going 7 deep in tough early games.

So you may be right, but history suggests otherwise.

Well I think originally you said he would only go 7 deep in January/February in general, as opposed to close/tough games, but yeah it makes sense from a strategy standpoint to tend to only want your top 7 or 8 guys on the court in a tough game. But a number is just a number, and I happen to think that every team and every game is different. That's why I'm not so quick to say that K will only play X players significant minutes come ACC play- because I'm sure I can find plenty of ACC games/postseason games in various years where he played more than 7 guys. Additionally, one distinction I would make for this particular team is that Quinn, Josh, Mike and Murph all have various attributes about their games that aren't exactly bountiful in the current top-7. Ball handling and distributing for Quinn; Size and relative athleticism on the wings for Josh, Mike and Murph. That's what I meant when I said that the opportunity is potentially there.

*edited to add that both last year's team and the '10 national champs pretty consistently went 8 deep in late season games. Not saying that they did every game, but there are plenty of examples just from the brief glimpse I just took.

[bjornolf]

I thought that maybe certain players were playing a little TOO hard, and maybe a little tight, last night. It reminded me of some baseball players trying to reach milestones and making it much harder than it should have been. Great effort though, and glad it's over so the guys can go back to just playing ball.

I thought one reason we lost the lead was that they kept fouling Mason near the end... and he kept missing. Trading 1 for 2... or 3 is not a good way to win basketball games. I think the end was also a great example of the tightening up theory. I think the players wanted to do this SO bad for K in the Garden with all their predecessors present, and when they got it to 20 they relaxed a little too much, then freaked out a little when it got under 12. Their decision making seemed to fall apart a little at that point. Luckily, they gutted it out. I'm sure K said something about it in that timeout and it helped them finish.

The fact that vets like Dawkins and Kelly played so well, while guys like Rivers had trouble shows signs of this as well. They'll learn. They've got the best teacher they could have after all.

[DukieInBrasil]

Agreed. Mason had a good game. I give him a ton of credit for helping Michigan St miss close-in shots with his shotblocking presence and length. Sure, MSU's post players aren't the most polished, but I firmly believe the intimidation factor played a part as well.

He's become a guy that we can rely on in the post. He has scoring moves, improved touch, and just as importantly, good court vision and passing ability to find cutters and open shooters. You can now throw the ball into him in the post and be pretty confident that something positive will happen. That's a great weapon to have in the arsenal.

While Mason has improved in this regard, he gets the ball stolen from him by dribbling the ball too much on a far-too-frequent basis. Overall though, i'm impressed by his improvement so far this year.

[Saratoga2]

I thought that maybe certain players were playing a little TOO hard, and maybe a little tight, last night. It reminded me of some baseball players trying to reach milestones and making it much harder than it should have been. Great effort though, and glad it's over so the guys can go back to just playing ball.

I thought one reason we lost the lead was that they kept fouling Mason near the end... and he kept missing. Trading 1 for 2... or 3 is not a good way to win basketball games. I think the end was also a great example of the tightening up theory. I think the players wanted to do this SO bad for K in the Garden with all their predecessors present, and when they got it to 20 they relaxed a little too much, then freaked out a little when it got under 12. Their decision making seemed to fall apart a little at that point. Luckily, they gutted it out. I'm sure K said something about it in that timeout and it helped them finish.

The fact that vets like Dawkins and Kelly played so well, while guys like Rivers had trouble shows signs of this as well. They'll learn. They've got the best teacher they could have after all.

Another reason we lost the lead was decision making by our guards. Our point guard or chief ball handler, if you will, needs to make good decisions in the manner of Scheyer. Most of our issues were not ball handling issues but instead were poor decisions. Long passes when we needed to take time off the clock, passing to a big man who doesn't do well with free throws, getting yourself essentially trapped up high on the baseline. Driving into a crowd is also an issue. We also have had our guards trying to make spectactular plays rather than working the ball for the shot. This is not new for Duke, and each year the coaches have to curb these impulses. The good thing about these failings is that they were all on film and coach K can use those in review as teaching moments.

[slower]

Agreed, I thought Dawkins was hitting shots tonight that even JJ would have missed.

Really? Which ones would JJ have missed?

GREAT game for Dre. But until he consistently shows JJ's mental toughness, ability to create shots from anywhere on the court, physical conditioning and killer instinct, it would be nice for people to stop forcing these Dre/JJ comparisons.

[dukedoc]

I know this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I'm still thinking about it. I don't recall MSU being a dirty team but there seemed to be a lot of nonsense last night capped off by the knee to Tyler's head. Just saying that Nix really has to grow up mentally to match the size of his girth.

[77devil]

Agreed, I thought Dawkins was hitting shots tonight that even JJ would have missed.

How soon they forget. It's simply a rediculous comparison.

Really? Which ones would JJ have missed?

GREAT game for Dre. But until he consistently shows JJ's mental toughness, ability to create shots from anywhere on the court, physical conditioning and killer instinct, it would be nice for people to stop forcing these Dre/JJ comparisons.

What he said.


There were plenty of teachable moments from last nights game for the coaching staff to work in practice. All the better that Duke won under the circumstances.

-Senior leadership from a team captain-You can be sure Miles has a one on one with "The Captain" about leading by example. Mason's T was arguable, Miles' was no excuse.
-Inbounding against the press
-Ball movement, patience, and clock management when protecting a lead. Fortunately, our guys had a big margin for this learning experience.
-Help defense- Obviously this is practiced everyday, but last night showed opportunity for much improvement.
-Making Austin's dribble drive ability more effective. It is understandable that Austin's instinct is to finish, but at the D-1 level he has to find the open man consistently.

This team is definitely a work in progress, and Duke has the best coach in the business. Get ready for the roller coaster.

[superdave]

The deepest Coach K Duke team ever (1997-98) still only went 7 deep in close games by the end of the year. And this was a team that had 10 guys average double-figure minutes over the course of the season, and in tough early games went 8 or 9 deep. Our current team is only going 7 deep in tough early games.

So you may be right, but history suggests otherwise.

Kedsy - Quinn and Josh both played sparingly in the first half last night. Josh played a little more because out 4/5 guys racked up a few fouls. Quinn played a little more because Austin had a few fouls and his shot wasnt going in. Do you see first half playing time for those guys going forward? I could see those guys - plus Murphy and Gbinije - playing 3-5 first half minutes in a lot of the games this year, although unlikely vs. Ohio State, Unc.

I'm not sure that necessarily means they are "in the rotation", just that they have earned a little run.

[noyac]

Coach K continues to impress me by showing how to do things the right way and teaching that to his players. Yesterday he benched Andre and Mason in points of the game where the score was still close. He did this because they did the wrong thing and he had to teach them that.

We all saw Mason reach out his arm at Thornton to push him aside. I personally didn't think it was a malicious act and more an act of self preservation, whether it was malicious or not is irrelevant. Coach K had to teach Mason that you can't do things like that.

Then Andre was jawing with an MSU player (I forget which one) and the ref pulled them aside to tell them to knock it off. Andre was on fire and I am sure most coaches would have left him in but Coach K felt that the ref's warning was not enough and he had to really send a message to Andre.

These are just some of the reasons I admire and respect Coach K and will always be a Duke fan.

[COYS]

I had to watch the ESPN3 replay of the game so I'm just getting to the thread. First, congrats to Coach K, the team, and the Duke basketball program. It's an amazing accomplishment . . . and ESPN actually did justice to it (surprisingly). 903 is hardly the end of the road, either. I'm hoping for 30+ more wins this season.

Defensively, this was a great game. MSU punched us in the mouth at first, and we responded by becoming even tougher than they were. Mason deserves a TON of credit for this. Forget his relatively low points and rebounds totals. He was consistent and focused, stepping up against a strong and physical team. The technical was dumb. And he wasn't perfect in his decision-making on offense, but he was strong on defense in a way that I'm not sure we've ever seen him.

It was great to see Andre move without the ball and be rewarded for his work. Hopefully this will motivate him to continue to work hard on offense. His confidence on offense seemed to spill over on defense, too. Actually, as Bob Green pointed out, it may have started with defense. That steal and dunk really seemed to jumpstart his game. He was one of the best defenders on the court, matching MSU's physicality. That's a great sign for the future.

As for Austin, this was one of the toughest matchups he will face all season. The Spartans are super physical. He's already adjusting to the speed of the college game. However, the strength of the Spartans was a little more than the still-slender Austin was ready for. I'm not worried at all. The skills are there. He's getting into good spots. He just has to get used to finishing (he was oh so close a number of times) and kicking out on the drive. He's a willing passer unless he decides to drive, at which point he drives to shoot for himself. If he can get better at balancing his scoring ability with his passing, it will actually open things up for him and I think we'll see his scoring average go up. Anyway, I'm not worried about Austin, at all. You know he's in the gym right now trying to get better after being frustrated last night.

And that brings me to the rest of the team. The final score notwithstanding, this was a pretty dominant win for Duke, especially in the second half. Strong, physical teams were a slight concern for me, as Andre is undersized against some college 3's, Austin is slender, Seth, is pretty small, and Ryan is not a particularly physical player. In addition, Mason and Miles had never been able to play defense consistently. The Spartans pushed us around for a while, but everyone answered the bell. Ryan, especially, upped his defensive game in the second half after gambling too much and giving up too much space in the first half. We took advantage of all of our mismatches, particularly with Ryan, proving that if the other team has an advantage in the post against us at the three or the four, we can still win the match-up by exploiting the strength of our perimeter game. Good stuff.

Seth made some mistakes but deserves a lot of credit, along with Tyler, for keeping our offense going against a tough defense. They also were incredibly pesky on defense and are a big part of why the Spartan post players could never get anything going. Most of the entry passes into the post came from Green and not from the guards (although some of their drives and dishes were nice). The team is still improving, but there was a lot to like. The ceiling for this team is really high. They just have to work on getting everyone operating at a high level night in, and night out.

[dukeballboy88]

I think you can compare Dawk and JJ on form. If I were judging simply on the way the shot looks, I might have to say Dawkins has the best form Ive ever seen. He is always squared up and its straight up and down. Its typical phone booth form and he always uses B-E-E-F. If I had to teach a class on just form and how a jump shot is suppsed to look, I'd use Dawkins shot as an example. Not saying JJ's wasnt beautiful because it was but just looking at both shooting, I might give Dawk the edge. Really, its splitting hairs or arguing about who is the richest billionaire but I thought I would add that.

If Ryan Kelly plays like that all year, we will be a tough team to beat. There is not many bigs that will be able to guard him.

I think Austin is trying to hard and that can easily be fixed, plus like someone mentioned earlier, he didnt get any calls on his way to the basket. He takes it to the rim hard and draws alot of contact and refs will start giving him the calls going forward.

Seth has one of the best shot fakes ive ever seen. He seems to get someone off their feet everytime he does it and his step back is money.

I love how Mase has developed the sky hook almost to perfection. It looks great and he has made about everyone he has taken. I think that needs to be his go to move when he gets it on the block. Plus, I like how he faces the defender when he catches it off the block. He can take any big man in the country off the dribble and he is a great passer. The no look to Ryan could be a play they can master. Because 9 out of 10 times when the ball comes to Mase on a pass the help defenders head will follow the ball and lose sight of his man. Ryan is smart enough to see that and can make a cut to the lane for an easy 2.

Miles just needs to relax. I know is Duke basketball and big games each week but its still basketball. The rim is the same height it was since middle school, the foul line is the same distance, the ball is the same size. When it comes down to it, its a game. Its a game Miles has played all his life. Just play and have fun.

I think Andre has the tools to be an All ACC caliber player. I was more impressed with the couple of shots he made going to the basket because if he can create off the dribble more, I can see this type of performance every night.

TT is a player every team needs. He is savy and tough and I like his energy level. Im glad we got him.

[feldspar]

Biggest frustration of the night was the mental mistakes by the brothers Plumlee. Both of them earned completely unnecessary technical fouls. Especially in a game like last night's, there's just no room for that.

[hq2]

I can't say enough about Dawk. I believe he's a clutch shooter and that's a nice weapon to have in Duke's arsenal. I'll forever be grateful for the two three's he hit against Baylor his freshman year that helped send Duke to the Final Four. He of course sealed the game against Belmont in the season opener this year, and now this. With countless former Duke greats looking on and with all the media attention about 903 and all the self-imposed pressure to win it for Coach K, the entire team played jittery in the first half except for one man who shot lights out and allowed the team to weather the storm. Gotta love that kid. Hopefully this game will springboard him into becoming a consistent starter for the rest of the season.

So whither Andre? Will he be "Mister November, Missed in February", like the last two years? This is the kind of game I have believed
he could have with consistency once he got it going, but he hasn't shown it the last two years. What I like about this game is that he
showed the other intangibles, hustle, defense, movement away from the ball, that he hasn't always shown in the past two years. And
these are the kinds of things that will keep him on the floor when his shot isn't falling (and more importantly, keep him out of Ks
doghouse) If Andre could keep playing like this, he could be an All America level player. He just needs to keep up this level of overall play to get there.

[oldnavy]

I think Coach Knight hit the nail on the head when he said this Duke team is on the right "path", meaning they are doing the things they need to to become a very good team. Remember this is only the 3rd game of the year, I suspect that the team we have come Feb/March will be surprising to some.

[Kedsy]

Well I think originally you said he would only go 7 deep in January/February in general, as opposed to close/tough games, but yeah it makes sense from a strategy standpoint to tend to only want your top 7 or 8 guys on the court in a tough game.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I always meant close/tough games. If we're blowing out Wake Forest at home, I expect plenty of guys to get plenty of minutes, even though it's an ACC game.

But a number is just a number, and I happen to think that every team and every game is different. That's why I'm not so quick to say that K will only play X players significant minutes come ACC play- because I'm sure I can find plenty of ACC games/postseason games in various years where he played more than 7 guys. Additionally, one distinction I would make for this particular team is that Quinn, Josh, Mike and Murph all have various attributes about their games that aren't exactly bountiful in the current top-7. Ball handling and distributing for Quinn; Size and relative athleticism on the wings for Josh, Mike and Murph. That's what I meant when I said that the opportunity is potentially there.

*edited to add that both last year's team and the '10 national champs pretty consistently went 8 deep in late season games. Not saying that they did every game, but there are plenty of examples just from the brief glimpse I just took.

This is all true, to an extent. Again, possibly poor communication on my part, but when I talk about being in the rotation, I mean getting regular (10 or more) minutes. In 2010, in our last five NCAAT games, here's how many players played 10 minutes or more:

Cal -- 7
Purdue -- 6 (plus one player with 9 mins)
Baylor -- 8
West Virginia -- 6 (plus one player with 8 mins and one with 7, but we won by 21 and I don't think these guys were in the game very much when it mattered)
Butler -- 5 (plus one player with 9 mins)

I wouldn't call that consistently going 8 deep, but obviously it did happen once. And I'm pretty sure it happened once or twice in the ACCT that year as well. And if your point is that Quinn and/or Alex and/or Josh and/or Mike can get 5 or so minutes in the big games, then we just have a definitional issue and I completely agree with you.

Finally, I personally like a longer rotation. I hope Quinn or Alex or whoever play so well they force Coach K to give them regular minutes, and not at the expense of someone else (e.g., when Elliot Williams broke into the rotation in 2009, Greg Paulus dropped out of it; we still played a 7 man rotation at the end). I'm just saying that based on history, we're not likely to have more than 7 guys (consistently) playing double-figure minutes (in tough/close games toward the end of the year), as much as we'd all prefer that we did.

[Kedsy]

While Mason has improved in this regard, he gets the ball stolen from him by dribbling the ball too much on a far-too-frequent basis.

He only had two turnovers. Not sure if both were strips while he was dribbling, but I doubt it. "Far-too-frequent" might be a bit unfair.

Kedsy - Quinn and Josh both played sparingly in the first half last night. Josh played a little more because out 4/5 guys racked up a few fouls. Quinn played a little more because Austin had a few fouls and his shot wasnt going in. Do you see first half playing time for those guys going forward? I could see those guys - plus Murphy and Gbinije - playing 3-5 first half minutes in a lot of the games this year, although unlikely vs. Ohio State, Unc.

I'm not sure that necessarily means they are "in the rotation", just that they have earned a little run.

Yes, I do see it, more or less. I don't know about 5 first half minutes, but 2 or 3 in a lot of games (even the tough/close ones) is attainable for two or even three of the Quinn/Alex/Josh/Mike quartet. I expect Josh to get 3 to 5 minutes in almost all games because I doubt our main trio of bigs will too often top 75 aggregate minutes. Quinn is an exciting talent and I hope he forces his way to at least 8 or 10 minutes a game (not sure at whose expense, though). And we've heard so many good things about Alex that, once he's healthy, we have to hope he deserves at least 5 to 10 minutes a game (again, not sure at whose expense those minutes would come). Mike has all the tools and we just have to see how quickly he learns how to use them.

Ultimately the "problem" is not how much (or little) Coach K wants to use his bench, but how much he wants to use his starters. I assume Mason/Miles/Ryan will average 75 aggregate minutes. Coach K almost always likes his starting backcourt to get 30 to 35 minutes each, so let's say 65 combined for Austin and Seth (and if one of them plays less, like last night Austin played only 23, Coach usually makes up for that by expanding the fifth starter's minutes, like last night when Andre played 38). If Andre and Tyler are the primary guys playing the third perimeter position, I doubt they'd combine for less than 45 between them, maybe 40 if they're both having off-nights. That only leaves 15 minutes (occasionally as much as 20) for the other four combined, which could mean an 8th guy (Quinn or Alex) getting 10 minutes and a ninth guy (Josh) getting 5, or it could mean three guys (Quinn/Josh/Alex or Mike) getting 5 each.

These guys might deserve more minutes, but I just don't see where they'll come from. If Quinn or Alex force their way into the rotation and play 10 or more minutes, I have to think it means someone else (Tyler? Andre? senior captain Miles?) dropping out (playing fewer than 10 minutes). And right now it's hard for me to see that happening with any of our top 7 guys. Closest I can see is if Quinn's defense comes along to where it's almost as good as Tyler's, then Quinn and Tyler could switch positions in the pecking order, but, again, it's hard to envision Quinn's defense getting that advanced that quickly.

But to answer your question, since they do seem deserving, I envision two or three of them playing a few meaningful first-half minutes in most games.


Finally, I obviously don't know that this is how it will shake out and I'm not disrespecting Quinn or Alex or Mike by saying they won't play so much. I'm not suggesting it's improper to believe that [insert your favorite young player here] will see scads of minutes as the season moves forward. I don't claim to know Coach K's mind and I understand that players earn time and things change and Coach K sometimes makes big lineup changes in February. I'm just saying K has been pretty consistent in the way he doles out minutes. Even with his startling late-season changes, when someone steps into a much larger role someone else slips into a much smaller one. It's really just simple math.

[tbyers11]

A few things to consider here. First, except for the dumb dead ball foul, Mason played a heck of a game. This despite only getting 3 shot attempts. He defended really well, had amazing passes and was all over the place making things happen. People will point to MSU missing "easy shots", but much of that was due to the pressure the 3 bigs were putting on the MSU bigs. Our bigs challenged shots, especially Mason and Kelly, and either blocked, altered, or caused MSU to rush numerous shotsl Give some credit to the defense.

I strongly agree with these points. Miles did not have a good game, but I think that Mason and Ryan, especially in the 2nd half for Ryan, had very good games. Mason is really showing some good things in the post offensively with his moves and passing. He is not Jared Sullinger yet, but his footwork and composure are greatly improved. Also agree that those interior "bunnies" that MSU missed were almost all strongly challenged by the interior D.

What is the impetus for "going to the monitor"?

They went for Mason's (stupid) elbow and Nix's box out, neither of which I thought warranted a call. Yet they let the (obvious to me) knee to Thornton's head go??? That looked like it had to potential to really hurt Tyler.

Would love an explanation.

-Brumby

This really bothers me too. I understand the need to go to the monitor to make sure that you get things right in a big fracas situation. However, if MSU's Thornton hadn't whined about the little shove that he got from Mason I don't think the refs would have gone to the monitor. The Nix shove to Andre on the FT was even more ticky-tack. If we go the monitor you can find contact like these two examples on probably 50% of all plays. Overuse of the monitor really disrupts the flow of the game. The announcers hinted at Mason's "shove" being an issue because it was a dead ball. Nix's shove was after a made FT. Is this a dead ball situation? The Nix knee to Tyler's head was happening just as a foul was being called and I guess wasn't actually a dead ball. Is this the difference?
Is it the possibility of an elbow being thrown? I know they can go to the monitor for this. Mason's and Nix's shoves could have possibly been elbows so that would make sense but neither of them were actually elbows yet fouls were still called. I know that there are some former refs that post on here. Do any of you have any clarification?

My thoughts on the inability to finish games issue are 2-fold. One, the primary ballhandlers in these situations so far (Seth and Tyler) either haven't been on the court much in these situations in college (Tyler) or haven't been the primary ballhandler when on the court (Seth). All the players (Scheyer, Nolan, Kyle, Kyrie) that typically dominated the ball in end game situations the last 2 years are gone. Composure with the game on the line can't really be replicated in practice. Seth had three bad plays (an early shot that led to a breakout, a travel, and the horrendous 3/4 court alley-oop attempt to Mason) vs one good play (the drive to basket and nice finish) in the last 5 minutes. Hopefully, he will improve. I also really think that Quinn could be beneficial in these situations. Hopefully, early season games will allow him to get more PT and will allow Coach K to be more comfortable using him. That kind of segues to my second point, fatigue. Coach K actually referenced after both the Belmont and MSU games that the players might have been a little tired at the end. I know that winning the Belmont and MSU games was important for a young team's psyche, but I hope that Quinn, Gbinije and Alex get a little more playing time in future early season games to hopefully keep everyone a little fresher at the end.

[wilko]

Congrats on the record.
When these dudes are old and grey they can look back and know they made a contribution to that objective.

Andre was a man tonight. If he can continue that effort I'll be greatly encouraged for this years prospects. He was just awesome tonight. If he doesn't DO that... then maybe MSU starts to get more confident and then maybe they get some friendly rolls on the rim based on that as opposed to rushed shots to keep pace.

Seth showed up BIG as well. Whatever probs he had before with his shoes in earlier games were fixed. He was in control as opposed to sliding all over the place. Good for him.

MP2 and MP1 - loved the hard-nosed defensive play. They were not afraid to mix it up and would not be bullied and gave as good as they got. They BOTH should take TT out to dinner because Tyler saved their bacon on help-side D several times. When the MP's got beat on D, TT was there for a strip or tie-up. TT is my unsung hero. If he doesn't Do that... MSU gets easy buckets.

That said the MP's have stuff to work on Defensively for position, reaction and communication. I would feel A LOT better about the win if Mason got a handful of those hooks to go down. Seems like he was called for 4 walks when he was getting ready to make a move. And Miles - maybe he should get a massage before the game to relax and just play. Getting a shot or 2 to go down would do worlds for his confidence/ I dont think he is all that far away from being at Masons level of play. The effort is there.

A wins a win and we'll take it. But we've along way to go.

[gcashwell]

This really bothers me too. I understand the need to go to the monitor to make sure that you get things right in a big fracas situation. However, if MSU's Thornton hadn't whined about the little shove that he got from Mason I don't think the refs would have gone to the monitor. The Nix shove to Andre on the FT was even more ticky-tack. If we go the monitor you can find contact like these two examples on probably 50% of all plays. Overuse of the monitor really disrupts the flow of the game. The announcers hinted at Mason's "shove" being an issue because it was a dead ball. Nix's shove was after a made FT. Is this a dead ball situation? The Nix knee to Tyler's head was happening just as a foul was being called and I guess wasn't actually a dead ball. Is this the difference?
Is it the possibility of an elbow being thrown? I know they can go to the monitor for this. Mason's and Nix's shoves could have possibly been elbows so that would make sense but neither of them were actually elbows yet fouls were still called. I know that there are some former refs that post on here. Do any of you have any clarification?

I figured the Nix shove to Andre was a makeup call for a flagrant 1 not being called during the Kelly play a few seconds earlier.