MBB: Duke 70, Florida State 56 Post-Game Thread

[dukieinhebron]

It would be fantastic if we had one more player step up and be a consistent offensive threat besides the big three. Preferably in the post.

[BD80]

Well Ryan Kelly made a brief cameo appearance. I really, really want to see Kelly get in the groove of things. I know you can't / shouldn't judge a player by their highlight video but if Kelly can just give us a glimpse of his overall skill set, that would be very encouraging in his development. Just think how potent Duke's offense would be with a 6-10 3pt shooter with a sweet mid-range pull up jumper (wow). However, he still has the deer in headlights look and every time he steps on the floor it's like Showtime At The Apollo or the Gong Show...you're just waiting for the hook to come out and pull him offstage.

Frankly, it looked to me like Ryan is getting a better feel for the defense. He is looking to hedge to help. He doesn't always get there, but his movement in the right direction closes passing lanes. It makes him look more out of sync because he is not close to the man he is guarding and he looks lost. But this is much better than when he would be stuck to his man rather than stepping over to cut off a lay-up.

Our defense is based on help and recover. That is what allows us to apply pressure on the ball, we have a TEAM ready to help. The "recover" phase can look awkward as a player runs frantically toward an open man with his arms in the air to deflect a pass he wouldn't see. However, pressuring the ball makes it difficult for the offense to make passes to open men, particularly when the man is open only briefly.

I think Ryan is getting there. Slowly, but surely.

[elvis14]

I really enjoyed watching the FSU game. It was a good solid win against a solid ACC opponent. It was nice to see Nolan score when we needed him in the first half, Kyle pick it up in the second half and Jon be great the whole game. Of course it would be nice to get some production outside of The Firm but we can't have everything.

It was cool seeing Ryan and Andre get a few minutes when it counted and to see Andre drain that 3!

How is it that whenever Z reaches over someone to grab a rebound he gets called for a foul automatically but FSU bloodies Miles head coming over his back and head for a board and there's no call? Even in no-blood, no-foul pick up games that'd be called!

Question: Since NCSU, have we regained our composure but scaled back our ambitions?

Sadly I feel as though ambitions have been scaled back. I hope we can really hit our stride come March.

3. Some varying points of view on the amount of 3-pointers shot. I know that FSU's perimeter D is not good and allows, I believe, the most 3-pointers made per game at 7. So it may have been strategy but I do get a bit nervous when the team starts falling in love with the 3. Something to monitor but not yet panic about as we've seen the team be able to win without the 3 being a predominant factor in their games. Decent amount of threes came in the flow but they looked as though that's what they were only looking for. Also, there was a couple of sequences that they did just "launch" them after gathering rebounds and kicking the ball out which made me squirm rather than set it back up. Again, probably nothing major but just worth watching.

I really like NYDukie's take on our 3 point shooting. I too get worried when we rely too heavily on the 3 (less of a problem so far this year). I do really like being able to score all over the place. We have that some this year although I'd love it if our bigs could be more effective (by effective I mean allow us to really go to them when needed).

Overall, it's a good day. Looking forward to the Gtown game!

[trinity92]

This was as troublesome a win as a 14 point win against a tough opponent can be. Our big 3 simply aren't looking for our bigs inside when they post up. I only saw one such attempt from Lance to Miles down low. Miles made a nice move, albeit a little out of control, and missed the layup. I'd like to see more shot attempts for him and Mason in the paint. Over and over, I saw an inside player post up, call for the ball, and when the ball didn't come, the inside player came out and screened for the big 3. Very rarely did our big, after rolling from the screen, get the ball back for an inside shot attempt. That just doesn't (and won't, against better teams) get it done, IMHO.

I'm not bothered by the number of 3 pointers taken, b/c as other posters have mentioned, they were usually good looks and taken in the flow of the offense. What does bother me is the one-dimensional nature of our offense that looks very familiar to me-- we're running a lot of stuff on the perimeter, but very little inside.

OTOH, this is the second game in a row that Lance flat out looked great. Much more fluid, with truly suffocating defense. I'm very bullish on him, which is a first for me. Keep up the good work LT!

[roywhite]

This was as troublesome a win as a 14 point win against a tough opponent can be.

Sorry, this just strikes me as funny, or maybe sad.

You provided substance about aspects of the game and our play, but it just seems like this way of looking at our team's progress is needlessly harsh and gloomy.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Completely random thought - Zoubs to a cutting Singler may be one of my favorite plays this year. Similar to the Scheyer to an open Nolan for a 3. Those two plays are textbook. Bball is such a beautiful sport...

[superdave]

Completely random thought - Zoubs to a cutting Singler may be one of my favorite plays this year.

Singler seems to be more effective cutting to catch and shoot than he does at creating off the dribble on the perimeter. His ball handling with a msaller, quicker defender still isnt there. But his size is. Guess it depends on the matchup.

[trinity92]

Sorry, this just strikes me as funny, or maybe sad.

You provided substance about aspects of the game and our play, but it just seems like this way of looking at our team's progress is needlessly harsh and gloomy.

If Duke's sole object in fielding a men's basketball team is to beat FSU at home in late January, field a team that has a winning record every year, has upstanding young men who are student-athletes and graduate at a good rate, etc., then my comment would be "needlessly harsh and gloomy," because we're meeting all those goals. If, however, my alma mater's goal in fielding its men's basketball team is to do all those things plus have success against the best teams in the country in March, then I'm sticking to my guns. Your use of a DBR term of art like "needlessly harsh" suggests to me I can't call our play in a win "troublesome" without the shadow of censure falling on my post. Some might call that sad, or funny (not ha-ha funny).

[moonpie23]

thought i would change my avatar to help foster and aggressive lead up to the game this weekend..


hopefully the team will take it TO them...


GO DUKE!!!!

[Neals384]

Props to Kyle for playing the last 8:36 with 4 fouls.

Most coaches would have Kyle sit after getting his 4th. I love the way Kelly is progressing, but the idea of having him in the game at that point - with just a 4 point lead - is scary. Wonderful decision by Coach K to keep Kyle in the game the rest of the way.

[CLT Devil]

In a game where Zoubek fouled out, Miles Plumlee got hurt, and Mason a non factor, Thomas provided valuable defense and minutes. We needed big guys today and Thomas stepped up.

I can't say enough for the energy that Lance brought, and brings most every game. Championship teams have outstanding role players in addition to their stars, and I think Lance is very unselfish to play the role he does, which is expend a TON of energy on defense and make it tough on his man. He is a force on D, and has improved so much in the last two years.

Did anyone else think it was a little odd to see Kelly and Dawkins so early in the game, and at the same time, when they really haven't played much at all lately?

Nasty cut on Miles' head, that first shower and shampoo is gonna hurt.

[Kfanarmy]

If Duke's sole object in fielding a men's basketball team is to beat FSU at home in late January, field a team that has a winning record every year, has upstanding young men who are student-athletes and graduate at a good rate, etc., then my comment would be "needlessly harsh and gloomy," because we're meeting all those goals.

FWIW I thought the post was a bit gloomy as well,,,though I'm not clairvoyant and can't say that Duke won't beat some of the best teams in March.

[jv001]

Frankly, it looked to me like Ryan is getting a better feel for the defense. He is looking to hedge to help. He doesn't always get there, but his movement in the right direction closes passing lanes. It makes him look more out of sync because he is not close to the man he is guarding and he looks lost. But this is much better than when he would be stuck to his man rather than stepping over to cut off a lay-up.

Our defense is based on help and recover. That is what allows us to apply pressure on the ball, we have a TEAM ready to help. The "recover" phase can look awkward as a player runs frantically toward an open man with his arms in the air to deflect a pass he wouldn't see. However, pressuring the ball makes it difficult for the offense to make passes to open men, particularly when the man is open only briefly.

I think Ryan is getting there. Slowly, but surely.

It seems to me that Ryan get's it more than Mason and Andre. Mason & Dre seem to be thinking their way through every play and not reacting. Sort of like Miles last year. Ryan looks more comfortable. He's not afraid of contact on defense and he's a good passer. He just needs to add strength and he will be a very valuable player for the Devils. Go Duke!

[watzone]

Here are Kyle Singlers's post game comments. http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/01/b...game-comments/

Coach K praised his effort after the game and alluded to his shooting which is starting to come around.

[snowdenscold]

I think I saw something like this before, but can anyone post the 3PA/FGA for the top 25 teams to see where we fall. Would put a bit of context to the whole "Does Duke rely a bit too much on the 3?" question. I'm not really sure what the answer is, that's why I'm asking.

[Duvall]

I think I saw something like this before, but can anyone post the 3PA/FGA for the top 25 teams to see where we fall. Would put a bit of context to the whole "Does Duke rely a bit too much on the 3?" question. I'm not really sure what the answer is, that's why I'm asking.

Not sure where Duke rates among top 25 teams, but Duke is currently 195th in the country in 3PA/FGA.

ETA: After poking around a bit, it appears that there are exactly twelve teams in the top 25 that are more reliant on the 3 than Duke (Kansas, Villanova, West Virginia, Kansas State, BYU, Temple, Wisconsin, Ole Miss, Ohio St., New Mexico, Baylor and UAB) and twelve that are less reliant (Texas, Kentucky, Purdue, Syracuse, Michigan St., Georgetown, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Pitt, UConn, Vanderbilt and Georgia Tech).

[roywhite]

Not sure where Duke rates among top 25 teams, but Duke is currently 195th in the country in 3PA/FGA.

ETA: After poking around a bit, it appears that there are exactly twelve teams in the top 25 that are more reliant on the 3 than Duke (Kansas, Villanova, West Virginia, Kansas State, BYU, Temple, Wisconsin, Ole Miss, Ohio St., New Mexico, Baylor and UAB) and twelve that are less reliant (Texas, Kentucky, Purdue, Syracuse, Michigan St., Georgetown, Gonzaga, Tennessee, Pitt, UConn, Vanderbilt and Georgia Tech).

Thanks very much for the research.

My impresson has been that our 2009-10 team is not overly reliant on the 3-pt shot, and that seems confirmed by these numbers.

[CDu]

Another nice win for the team. There were certainly moments where we stalled a bit, but to win comfortably against a solid ACC team is always fine with me.

It was great to see Scheyer hit his shots again. He's a notoriously streaky shooter, and his streaks can last many games. Hopefully this game signaled the end of Scheyer's slump and that he's going to go on a shooting tear again. For the second consecutive game though his turnovers were up, and he did a poor job at the end of the shot clock on a few possessions in the second half. So there are still some things for him to work on.

Thomas was again terrific on the defensive end of the floor. But more importantly for me, the game appears to finally be slowing down for him. For the past couple of games, he hasn't looked as frenetic/overzealous as he often looks when he's defending on the perimeter or when he has the ball. This has allowed him to be more involved in the offense, and it has allowed him to stay out of foul trouble so as to be available for 35 minutes in the last two games. Hopefully he can keep playing like this. He's not likely to ever b a force offensively, but if he can at least be a useful part of the offense his defense is a real plus.

I thought the officiating crew did a great job of controlling the level of physicality in the game by whistling a lot of stuff early on. FSU has a tendency to be overly physical, and the officials set the tone early. I thought the result was a cleaner game than I would have anticipated. Aside from a fluke elbow to the head for Plumlee and a solid screen by Reid on Singler, the game was without incident physically.

I am a bit disappointed with the lack of progress from the Plumlees. They clearly have talent and potential, but the consistency is lacking. Hopefully they can have their "light switch" moments soon, because we become a real force if those guys bring their added dimension of size/athleticism combo. We are certainly still a very good without production from them, but we're a much better team with them providing some sort of consistent production.

Dawkins was back out there, which suggests (as many thought) that his absence against Clemson was probably a matchup thing. I think that as long as the big three aren't in foul trouble his minutes are going to stay in the 8-12 range. But I hope that he can rebound with his shooting touch so that he can provide a spark whenever/if ever he's needed.

[greybeard]

I'm guessing he isn't getting it done in practice as well as in games, so unless he steps it up before the games, K's not going to let him do much against Georgetown. With our foul troubles last night, I was surprised to see Mason only get 8 minutes (same # he got against state and almost half of what he had been getting). He's still got a lot to learn, my biggest beef with him is his inability to finish. It's disheartening to see the number of layups and dunks he misses, and my guess is that is contributing to his being on the floor less. It's one thing to miss a three pointer, it's another when you repeatedly miss from within 3 feet of the basket.

Finishing inside, especially when the addrenilin is flowing, is not as easy as you think, even if you're all alone, ime. But, challenging the rim with a move by a guy like Mason is GOLD for an offense whether the ball goes in or not.

At it's simplest level, basketball is a game in which the offense looks to get the ball to the rim and shoot from the easiest spot on the floor and the defense MUST as a first imperative take that away. The 3-line has changed that a little, but the premise of keeping a defender between the ball and the basket is still the first rule of defense..

Mason's attacks at the rim breaks a defense down and requires adjustment, usually a shrinking of outside pressure, whether the ball goes in or not.

I'm sure missing contributed to his going out earlier than he otherwise would have. A freshman has enough to think about without his having to carry around in his head a whole bunch of muffed opportunities if his team should loose. I really can't imagine what it is like for a freshman to adjust to the academic and social climate of a school like Duke and be playing on such a big stage several times a week. I think that this is an aspect of the game that K manages better than anyone ever. Some things are priceless, even while they go under the radar or seem like something else.

[superdave]

Mason's attacks at the rim breaks a defense down and requires adjustment, usually a shrinking of outside pressure, whether the ball goes in or not.

Yeah, I was really hoping to see us feed the post a few times so as to not concede the paint to FSU. We got some stick backs but no true post up moves were converted.