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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by slower View Post
    So, Jim, a question for you, since you're an actual journalist. Is it just me or has there been a season-long script that Henson, Barnes and Zeller would likely all be first-team? And if so, how likely are the voters to want to "stick to the script", which means picking Scott, three Tar Heels and one more player? I mean, in most blogs/websites I've seen, it seems that most writers really WANT UNC to be the great team that they were pre-ordained to be before the season. Writers, just like other humans, seem to like to stick to whatever meme or script has been established as conventional wisdom. That's why we see SO many headlines that read "Barnes, Heels defeat (Team X)", even when Barnes was NOT the leading scorer or best player in the game.

    Am I crazy?
    Not crazy. Maybe a tad paranoid, however.

    If it makes you feel any better, the folks who write the articles usually aren't the folks who come up with the headlines.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    I don't see any way a rational basketball person can't put Zeller, Barnes, and Henson as three of the five best individual players in the ACC this season.

    Rivers and Scott would complete my first team, and I think Zeller is easily POY.

    But hey, that's just me and I don't have a vote.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I don't see any way a rational basketball person can't put Zeller, Barnes, and Henson as three of the five best individual players in the ACC this season.
    It'd be more than a little odd to have the third place team in any league getting three first team selections.

    I'm not saying it's impossible or necessarily unjustified, but if FSU and Duke win out, it's at least something to consider.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    It'd be more than a little odd to have the third place team in any league getting three first team selections.

    I'm not saying it's impossible or necessarily unjustified, but if FSU and Duke win out, it's at least something to consider.
    It would be embarrassing should that happen. And it could because UNC, despite all the individual talent, has yet to play to their potential and is not clearly the best team.

    Trying to take my blinders off, I just can't rationalize better individual players in the ACC to move them out of the top five.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Rivers has been bigtime and should be a First Team lock.

    I do not think Stoglin deserves to be on the First Team despite his guady scoring average. His own coach has taken him out of multiple games due to his lack of team-oriented play.

    I think Zeller has had a great year for Carolina -- probably better than Barnes and Henson. Interesting that Marshall is the guy that makes the team go and will likely be the one left off the first team.

    My Predicted First Team

    Rivers, Scott, Zeller, Barnes, and Henson

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    It would be embarrassing should that happen. And it could because UNC, despite all the individual talent, has yet to play to their potential and is not clearly the best team.

    Trying to take my blinders off, I just can't rationalize better individual players in the ACC to move them out of the top five.

    Did you mean "and is clearly NOT the best team"? Just having fun ... I agree with you that Zeller, Barnes, and Henson have been really good this season (and I think we may think alike that Zeller's efforts often go under-appreciated - perhaps even by Tar Heel fans).

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Rivers and Scott would complete my first team, and I think Zeller is easily POY..
    I'd give Zeller POY just for that tip-in he gave us. That was a clutch play, and without it Duke simply doesn't win at Chapel Hill. And without that win, Duke isn't in position to win the ACC regular season. That was a HUGE play.

    OK, picking on Carolina aside, I agree that Zeller has been sensational and consistent all year. I don't think he's POY, but I'd put him second in voting behind Scott.

    So, my 1st team would be:
    Scott
    Zeller
    Marshall
    Austin
    Barnes

    I know most writers probably don't have Marshall, but he's just such a great playmaker, and so crucial to UNC's success. I hate the shade of blue he wears, but love the way he runs the point.

    Focusing more on the subject of the thread, Austin deserves a spot because he is the most reliable, most clutch player on a top 5 team and a team currently tied for number 1 in the ACC. Snaer can make almost the same claim (change top 5 team to top 20 team), but Austin has just been a little better than Snaer, especially as the season has gone on.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    If I had a vote, Mike Scott would be my choice for Player-of-the-Year with Tyler Zeller coming in second. Zeller is clearly Carolina's MVP. Additionally, I would drop Henson to 2nd Team as I don't see him coming up with clutch plays. He has a bit of choke in him. Moreover, I have a hard time seeing how Florida State gets shutout on the 1st Team when they are still in the mix to win the conference regular season. So my 1st Team would be:

    Mike Scott
    Tyler Zeller
    Harrison Barnes
    Austin Rivers
    Michael Snaer

    My vote is definitely influenced by my dislike of John Henson's antics on the court, specifically his hanging on the rim after dunks, but I believe the sportswriters who actually cast the votes are influenced by their own emotions as well.
    Bob Green

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    If I had a vote, Mike Scott would be my choice for Player-of-the-Year with Tyler Zeller coming in second. Zeller is clearly Carolina's MVP. Additionally, I would drop Henson to 2nd Team as I don't see him coming up with clutch plays. He has a bit of choke in him. Moreover, I have a hard time seeing how Florida State gets shutout on the 1st Team when they are still in the mix to win the conference regular season. So my 1st Team would be:

    Mike Scott
    Tyler Zeller
    Harrison Barnes
    Austin Rivers
    Michael Snaer

    My vote is definitely influenced by my dislike of John Henson's antics on the court, specifically his hanging on the rim after dunks, but I believe the sportswriters who actually cast the votes are influenced by their own emotions as well.
    To be fair, Henson's biggest value is on the defensive end. He would be deserving of DPOY if he gets it and I don't see the DPOY not getting 1st team ACC. I agree with you about Mike Scott, though. As much as I respect Zeller's game, Scott has carried a team that wasn't supposed to be anywhere as good as they have been. Also, put Mike Scott on a more uptempo team and his per-game stats begin to look even more gaudy . . . and he already scores more than Zeller. Finally, add the fact that Zeller's game is greatly enhanced by Marshall's passing while Mike Scott has to make more for himself and I think Scott is most deserving of ACC POY.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    I for one hope the four players from unc-... Split the POY vote and it goes elsewhere.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    To be fair, Henson's biggest value is on the defensive end. He would be deserving of DPOY if he gets it and I don't see the DPOY not getting 1st team ACC.
    Henson was the ACC DPOY last year, and he only made 2nd team All-ACC. In 2010, Chris Singleton was the ACC DPOY and he only made 3rd team. In 2009, Trevor Booker and Toney Douglas tied for ACC DPOY, and Booker only made 2nd team. In 2007, Jamon Gordon won ACC DPOY, and he was only on the 3rd team.

    So, I could see it.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    As much as I respect Zeller's game, Scott has carried a team that wasn't supposed to be anywhere as good as they have been.
    Virginia has picked 4th in the ACC in the preseason. They're currently in 4th place at 8-6. You make a good point about Scott playing in a slow-tempo system compared to the UNC guys, but Zeller outplayed Scott in both match-ups between UNC and UVA.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Bob....John Henson is averaging a double/double points/rebounds in league play. Arguably the two most impressive statistical categories. No-one else is.

    He leads the league in blocked shots. He's the league leader in rebounds per game. He's third in field goal percentage.

    I really like Snaer's game. He's made some big plays this year and should be recognized for them. But if we are looking to name the top five players in the league, Snaer cannot match up with Henson's overall play, IMO.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Bob....John Henson is averaging a double/double points/rebounds in league play. Arguably the two most impressive statistical categories. No-one else is.
    Your points are valid but as I stated in my post my vote would be influenced by my dislike of Henson and his constant hanging on the rim. I really wish the ACC refs would "T" him up like he deserves. Perhaps a ref in the NCAAT will do it at a most inopportune time for the Tar Heels.
    Bob Green

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Your points are valid but as I stated in my post my vote would be influenced by my dislike of Henson and his constant hanging on the rim. I really wish the ACC refs would "T" him up like he deserves. Perhaps a ref in the NCAAT will do it at a most inopportune time for the Tar Heels.
    Bob, one added bonus of Henson going pro is the rude awakening some of the MEN in the league will lay upon him if he "acts out."

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by slower View Post
    Bob, one added bonus of Henson going pro is the rude awakening some of the MEN in the league will lay upon him if he "acts out."
    I haven't seen Henson do anything unsportsmanlike.

    Fans are a funny bunch sometimes...so you're saying your team is not "man" enough to deal with Henson "acting out" ?

    Just kidding...we are officially in rivalry game week mode now

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I haven't seen Henson do anything unsportsmanlike.

    Fans are a funny bunch sometimes...so you're saying your team is not "man" enough to deal with Henson "acting out" ?

    Just kidding...we are officially in rivalry game week mode now
    Wheat I stay that way. GoDuke!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Bob....John Henson is averaging a double/double points/rebounds in league play. Arguably the two most impressive statistical categories. No-one else is.

    He leads the league in blocked shots. He's the league leader in rebounds per game. He's third in field goal percentage.

    I really like Snaer's game. He's made some big plays this year and should be recognized for them. But if we are looking to name the top five players in the league, Snaer cannot match up with Henson's overall play, IMO.
    Henson's stats are impressive, but let's not forget that UNC's fast tempo will consistently inflate both offensive and defensive stats. I don't have UNC's tempo stats for the season but I presume that, as usual, their tempo is tops in the league.

    Which is not to say, necessarily, that the stat lines for the top 3-4 Heels are not impressive. But they may not be as impressive as they appear at first glance.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I haven't seen Henson do anything unsportsmanlike.

    Fans are a funny bunch sometimes...so you're saying your team is not "man" enough to deal with Henson "acting out" ?

    Just kidding...we are officially in rivalry game week mode now
    Oh brother, is it mini-Wheat time again?

    Where's that ignore button?

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    Henson's stats are impressive, but let's not forget that UNC's fast tempo will consistently inflate both offensive and defensive stats...
    OK, and we should also consider that Henson's individual stats are also limited by playing alongside two other potential all ACC players in the post, players who are also way up there in league stats, something no-one else has to do.

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