I really hope you're joking. One game, in which they played very well by the way, dooms their "post-season prospects"? Really? When they beat us a few weeks ago, did that "put a fork in" our post-season prospects? It was one game. The only single game that dooms anybody's post-season prospects is when a team loses in the NCAA tournament.
Yes! I have been saying this for some time. Andre is incredibly valuable on offense, even when he doesn't take a single shot. This is why, even when Andre was slumping earlier in the season, it was a bad call when people hoped Quinn and Michael would take Andre's minutes.
Well, in this case, I think Vitale was right. Whether or not it was in UNC's interests, you know they were cheering for FSU. It's not even a close case.
Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!
I'm eager to see the toughness displayed last night carry forward. Others may feel the same way I do, but say they are anxious about it.
This may suggest something about the basic intelligence of UNC folks, but you are probably right. I have no doubt the UNC fans were cheering for FSU, just thought the team might see the value in a Duke win, since that would put their shot at a regular season ACC championship in their own hands--but maybe even there the rivalry runs too deep.
In their own hands, yes, but it's not as easy as it sounds. Don't forget that FSU has to play @ nationally ranked Virginia and @ dangerous in-state rival Miami before their regular season is over. And UNC has to play @ nationally ranked Virginia and @ arch-rival Duke, in a game where anything can happen. Duke has two lower-tier teams and then a rivalry game at home on senior night. Even from a logical standpoint, you could make a decent argument that a UNC fan should have wanted Duke to get hung with an L last night.
The blue-tinted lenses seem to have been of exceptional strength last night.
Sure, there were some missed plays in the game, and Valentine was even responsible for a few. But anyone who thinks he wasn't the strongest official on the floor last night is letting their distaste for him or his style get in the way of accurate analysis. He'd be the first to admit that he shouldn't have counted that bucket late in the game. That wasn't his only decision of the game (it wasn't even his only mistake), but that play and a widespread distaste for his mannerisms have been allowed to completely overshadow some superb refereeing on his part. Each of his partners swallowed the whistle in some big moments yesterday--on plays that were demanding of a whistle--and every time Valentine was even remotely positioned to do so, he came to the rescue.
Just to provide one example of the bias present in this thread: Valentine has been derided for being so concerned with showing off following Seth's offensive foul, that he failed to correctly report the number (30), and instead reported Andre's (20). The mistake was easily caught when folks realized Andre was on the bench. But why is anyone so sure that the mistake was Valentine's? Occasionally, scorers make mistakes. Is it conceivable that Valentine gave an accurate signal that was misread at the table? Or that the scorer read the signal correctly and simply marked it incorrectly in the scorebook? Or that the scoreboard operator misread the signal from Valentine or misheard the oral confirmation from the scorer? Maybe the PA announcer got it wrong for some reason? Each of these things happens every once in a while, and the fact that such possibilities would never even be considered says more about the observer than about Valentine and what he did or didn't do there.
"Valentine should be fired."
Sigh.
Last edited by calltheobvious; 02-24-2012 at 11:26 AM. Reason: left out a couple of words
Yes, I see your point. While the result might be that FSU would win the regular season championship (or maybe share the championship with UNC, assuming both won out--no given for either team--but get the first seed in the ACC tournament), it might be better for UNC, looking ahead to NCAA seeding, etc., for Duke to lose.
Kedsy, thank you,but,wholly unnecessary.
What I was originally referring to, was the ill advised fouls that ultimately limit the ability to work on the oppositions bigs in the paint when necessary. (short version)
What I saw last night, didn't qualify as that, (I'm about to rewatch the game),I thought MP1&2 and Ryan played great. I won't attempt to put a "label" on what caused the early foul concerns, but it doesn't appear to come under the heading of "ill advised", more likely "beyond player control".
I really enjoyed what I saw last night, across the board, the team always answered and that bodes well going forward.
I had posted in previous weeks that while Seth had been struggling a bit from outside, he had been getting to the hoop more via cuts, passes, and off the dribble, personally, I think it was/is a blessing in disquise.
Here is why, Seth, is now as apt to go inside rather than just pull up with a 3, it makes him much more versatile and complements Austin and Andre. He's a pure shooter, with a shooter's mentality (and this is good), because his shot has been coming back recently and last night 3 was key, I really believe the we will see his 3 evidence itself positively down the stretch run.
IMHO
Last edited by throatybeard; 02-24-2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: fix tags
Let's go DUKE !!!
I don't know that going zone would help when all of our bigs are in foul trouble. If just one guy is in foul trouble then a zone might be a way to protect him, but even then you still have to guard your guy once he gets the ball.
I think our strategy was to pressure the guards and prevent the bigs from getting the ball, which we did a phenomenal job of. The announcers kept asking why FSU was choosing not to go inside, but our defense had a lot to do with it. And I think playing zone would make those interior passes easier.
Mason's first foul was dumb, reaching out and grabbing the guard after releasing on a hedge. What's amazing is that he almost did the exact same thing on the next possession, but thankfully didn't get called for it that time. It would have given him two fouls in like the first three minutes of the game.
Other than those plays, I agree that the bigs avoided the silly fouls.
Read any teams message board after a game and you will learn that they just got hosed by the refs. I'm sure the FSU board -if they even have one for hoops - was replete with examples.
Our fans do it too but the only difference is that, in their minds, they are right. Oh wait, that really isn't a difference...
Oh yeah and Duke is also the team that annoucers are really biased against but everyone else is just paranoid
One of the keys of the game, in my opinion, was how well we would perform in the turnover battle. My man to watch was Seth Curry, who had 6 turnovers in the previous game and had to do better at FSU for us to win. We lost the TO battle 11 to 8, however, Seth only had one of those 11 and he handled the ball a lot throughout the game. With that kind of ball security against a top notch and aggressive defensive team, Seth becomes a force on the offensive end, since he can drive and dish or score and has a pull up game for mid range scoring along with the ability to hit the three.
Yeah, if I'm a UNC fan I root for FSU to win yesterday and then lose one of their remaining games. That's more likely than Duke losing before playing UNC (not saying Duke is definitely going to beat VT and Wake, but it's a safer bet that FSU will lose one).
Last edited by throatybeard; 02-24-2012 at 04:42 PM.
A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
---Roger Ebert
Some questions cannot be answered
Who’s gonna bury who
We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
---Over the Rhine
I just read the postgame thread on Tomahawk Nation (disclaimer: I have no idea what the 'best' FSU blog is but TN is their SB Nation site, which is a good go-to for a credible blog for pretty much every team other than Duke, as they don't link the DBR to SBN, which confuses me but this parenthetical has gone on long enough...) and there are about 3 posts about officiating, all relating to Curry's travel, which admittedly was one of the biggest blown calls I've ever seen. >95% of the thread basically says that FSU has no chance when teams bomb it like we did from three and credit to Duke for being on point for this game.
There are also a few mentions of how many of the fouls the Plumlees accumulated were not induced by 'anything FSU did' (re: the FSU fans subliminally realize we got hosed by the refs).
Conclusion: we REALLY got hosed by the refs, since the other team's fans aren't even complaining about the refs!
Edit: Just did a CTRL+F on their in-game thread (>500 comments), which revealed 5 instances of complaining about the refs. Two instances were then shot down by other posters. New conclusion: these guys don't know how to complain like basketball fans.
It's interesting how obvious it is when Seth is on vs. off his game; it's like you can literally tell whether he's having a good game by just watching one play.
When he gets low with the ball and shifts his weight forward, looking for a crease to dart through, he's actually an extremely effective penetrator and creator. When he's got his head up and weight back, guarding the ball, he's almost a liability. When he launches the ball early in his release with a high release angle (most important part), it seems like it goes in 90% of the time. When he guides the ball a little more and doesn't put that big arc on it, it's just bad. I'm not sure if I can remember a player for whom the outcome of his shots were more obvious the minute he released them.