Red Tails issue? George Lucas, miffed at Hollywood, retires.

[Jim3k]

At least from blockbuster-level movies. This, according to the not-so-reliable Moonie UPI. I'm not saying that UPI is wrong. Indeed, given Hollywood's snub of Lucas' Red Tails his retrenchment to smaller, more personal movies seems entirely credible.

And why did Hollywood snub Red Tails? The majors wouldn't even see the film. Even 20th Century Fox, the distributor, is making Lucas pay for the distribution costs, and it would appear, the publicity. There is hardly any publicity campaign to be seen, even though it is about the heroic Tuskegee Airmen during WWII. Maybe it's a crummy movie, but still...It's George Lucas, for Pete's sake! Rotten Tomatoes' audience rating has it as 72%. RT's top critics aren't as friendly.

If Lucas really has retired (except for the Indiana Jones sequel he is obligated to do), I find it disappointing and somewhat mysterious.

[theAlaskanBear]

He had a really good interview with Jon Stewart about the trials of getting Red Tails made and released. I hope it does well at the box office and I plan to see it when I get the time.

[Lord Ash]

Let's hope he retires before doing any more damage to two of my four childhood pillars in Indy and Star Wars.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Let's hope he retires before doing any more damage to two of my four childhood pillars in Indy and Star Wars.

And the other two pillars are?

[Verga3]

At least from blockbuster-level movies. This, according to the not-so-reliable Moonie UPI. I'm not saying that UPI is wrong. Indeed, given Hollywood's snub of Lucas' Red Tails his retrenchment to smaller, more personal movies seems entirely credible.

And why did Hollywood snub Red Tails? The majors wouldn't even see the film. Even 20th Century Fox, the distributor, is making Lucas pay for the distribution costs, and it would appear, the publicity. There is hardly any publicity campaign to be seen, even though it is about the heroic Tuskegee Airmen during WWII. Maybe it's a crummy movie, but still...It's George Lucas, for Pete's sake! Rotten Tomatoes' audience rating has it as 72%. RT's top critics aren't as friendly.

If Lucas really has retired (except for the Indiana Jones sequel he is obligated to do), I find it disappointing and somewhat mysterious.

Saw the trailer and immediately wanted to see the movie. Courage, determination and patriotism were the first thoughts/words the entered my mind. These were surely incredible and special individuals whose story has to be told. The history books do not give them their due...at least as much as I have read. Hopefully, the Hollywood powers that be will be able to break out of character and recognize this film as important WWII history. Either there is stuff we don't know about going on behind the curtain with George Lucas, or some influential folks in Hollywood still want to steoreotype and hold down some of the crucial stories of our common heritage...It wouldn't be the first time. Hope I am wrong, but sadly, I don't think so.

[OldPhiKap]

And the other two pillars are?

Dukes of Hazzard and Pabst Blue Ribbon?


(Or do I reveal too much?)

[jimsumner]

At least from blockbuster-level movies. This, according to the not-so-reliable Moonie UPI. I'm not saying that UPI is wrong. Indeed, given Hollywood's snub of Lucas' Red Tails his retrenchment to smaller, more personal movies seems entirely credible.

And why did Hollywood snub Red Tails? The majors wouldn't even see the film. Even 20th Century Fox, the distributor, is making Lucas pay for the distribution costs, and it would appear, the publicity. There is hardly any publicity campaign to be seen, even though it is about the heroic Tuskegee Airmen during WWII. Maybe it's a crummy movie, but still...It's George Lucas, for Pete's sake! Rotten Tomatoes' audience rating has it as 72%. RT's top critics aren't as friendly.

If Lucas really has retired (except for the Indiana Jones sequel he is obligated to do), I find it disappointing and somewhat mysterious.

As far as publicity is concerned, I have seen a lot of commercials for this and not on basic cable. Not sure who's funding this but I suspect most people know of the movie's existence.

[SupaDave]

Saw the trailer and immediately wanted to see the movie. Courage, determination and patriotism were the first thoughts/words the entered my mind. These were surely incredible and special individuals whose story has to be told. The history books do not give them their due...at least as much as I have read. Hopefully, the Hollywood powers that be will be able to break out of character and recognize this film as important WWII history. Either there is stuff we don't know about going on behind the curtain with George Lucas, or some influential folks in Hollywood still want to steoreotype and hold down some of the crucial stories of our common heritage...It wouldn't be the first time. Hope I am wrong, but sadly, I don't think so.

It's a great movie! And as an American you should go see it. It's a great look into a whole other side of the war, one that many blacks know about but those stories rarely get mass consumption. Realizing what is going on in America at the time it's has many side stories of soldiers and men.

To be honest there's so much airplane stuff going on that you really don't think about the racial context of much of the movie until the movie wants you too.

There's a shout out to the Red Baron and they even show how the German's had jets before we did - showing that their technology was more advanced than ours and a precursor to one of the reasons we had to go ahead and drop the bomb in what was a furious arms race (I'm not even gonna get into the whole Germans getting help from aliens theory).

The movie is also a plane lover's movie. And if you like military tactics - there's some of that there for you too.

I give it 4.5 stars b/c there's not much I would change about it besides adding some Harriers, F-14s, F-16s, Stealth Bombers and Raptors.

[Verga3]

It's a great movie! And as an American you should go see it. It's a great look into a whole other side of the war, one that many blacks know about but those stories rarely get mass consumption. Realizing what is going on in America at the time it's has many side stories of soldiers and men.

To be honest there's so much airplane stuff going on that you really don't think about the racial context of much of the movie until the movie wants you too.

There's a shout out to the Red Baron and they even show how the German's had jets before we did - showing that their technology was more advanced than ours and a precursor to one of the reasons we had to go ahead and drop the bomb in what was a furious arms race (I'm not even gonna get into the whole Germans getting help from aliens theory).

The movie is also a plane lover's movie. And if you like military tactics - there's some of that there for you too.

I give it 4.5 stars b/c there's not much I would change about it besides adding some Harriers, F-14s, F-16s, Stealth Bombers and Raptors.

I will definintely see it. Thanks for the quick, appreciated review!

[Lord Ash]

And the other two pillars are?

GI Joe and Transformers, both of which are in the midst of being destroyed (ugh Michael Bay I hate you). Nuking the fridge basically ended Indy for me (I couldn't even finish that movie... Indy punches Nazis in the FACE, he doesn't chase aliens!) and that whiny kid/teenaged Darth Vader (not to mention Boba Fett being a KID! A KID, I tell you!) finished off what the Ewoks had started many years prior.

It was a good childhood


About the original post; I've been interested that there are a few very different ad campaigns for it. The first ad I saw was this one:

Link

Yikes. I was a bit disturbed. The one liners, the loud modern clubby music, the quick cuts, a bunch of young men screaming and shouting, the word "fast" being the first thing on the screen... I am a guy who watches Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan, and this looked like something much more along the lines of The Fast and the Furious. I was nervous. Note: no mention of George Lucas or history or anything in the ad.

Thankfully I then saw the second ad:

Link

Slow emotional music, white writing on a black screen, Lucas is mentioned at the start, clear references to the social conflict of black fliers in WWII and the many military men trying to hold them down, "a true story"... ah ha! THIS movie I would watch!

Very funny to see how it is being marketed to two very different audiences.

[sagegrouse]

At least from blockbuster-level movies. This, according to the not-so-reliable Moonie UPI. I'm not saying that UPI is wrong. Indeed, given Hollywood's snub of Lucas' Red Tails his retrenchment to smaller, more personal movies seems entirely credible.

And why did Hollywood snub Red Tails? The majors wouldn't even see the film. Even 20th Century Fox, the distributor, is making Lucas pay for the distribution costs, and it would appear, the publicity. There is hardly any publicity campaign to be seen, even though it is about the heroic Tuskegee Airmen during WWII. Maybe it's a crummy movie, but still...It's George Lucas, for Pete's sake! Rotten Tomatoes' audience rating has it as 72%. RT's top critics aren't as friendly.

If Lucas really has retired (except for the Indiana Jones sequel he is obligated to do), I find it disappointing and somewhat mysterious.

Jim et al.:

Here's a link from today's NY Times Magazine, which has insights on his career decisions. I won't try to summarize (but I hope it is available to non-subscribers).

sage

[Olympic Fan]

As a history buff, I've been curious about this movie for a long time. I know it's labor of love for Mr. Lucas, who grew up making WWII "movies" with his Super 8.

However, I'm a bit baffled by the end result. The subject was covered quite well in 1996 in an HBO movie titled "Tuskegee Airmen." (one of the stars was the same Cuba Gooding Jr. who stars in Red Tails). That one had a first-rate cast and explored in great detail -- and a fair degree of historical accuracy -- the racism that the Negro airmen had to overcome to reach combat and their excellence when finally given the chance.

There's actually less about the racial struggle in "Red Tails" -- and the time is devoted to more re-creations of aerial combat. Great special effects, but nothing to extend or illumate the story told in 1996.

Not a bad movie and I'm all for exposing more people to this story. Still, it's hard to feel Mr. Lucas' outrage that critics and studios don't love an unoriginal special effects-driven story (then again, the studios loved the Transformers movies et al, so maybe there is reason for his outrage). But the critics who gave "Red Tails" a lukewarm reception have consistently ripped that kind of movie.

[cf-62]

As a history buff, I've been curious about this movie for a long time. I know it's labor of love for Mr. Lucas, who grew up making WWII "movies" with his Super 8.

However, I'm a bit baffled by the end result. The subject was covered quite well in 1996 in an HBO movie titled "Tuskegee Airmen." (one of the stars was the same Cuba Gooding Jr. who stars in Red Tails). That one had a first-rate cast and explored in great detail -- and a fair degree of historical accuracy -- the racism that the Negro airmen had to overcome to reach combat and their excellence when finally given the chance.

There's actually less about the racial struggle in "Red Tails" -- and the time is devoted to more re-creations of aerial combat. Great special effects, but nothing to extend or illumate the story told in 1996.

Not a bad movie and I'm all for exposing more people to this story. Still, it's hard to feel Mr. Lucas' outrage that critics and studios don't love an unoriginal special effects-driven story (then again, the studios loved the Transformers movies et al, so maybe there is reason for his outrage). But the critics who gave "Red Tails" a lukewarm reception have consistently ripped that kind of movie.

Tuskeegee Airmen starred Laurence Fishburn, Courtney Vance, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Andre Braugher, Allen Payne, John Lithgow, Christopher McDonald, and more. It was at the height of HBO Films making incredible movies - and fit the bill perfectly. I could watch it again and again. The ads for this Lucas-modern telling of the story seems to, much like Glory Road, modernize the language in the script to appeal to today's audiences more. While good from a marketing perspective and raising the tomatometer, it creates an air of dumbing down compared to T.A.

[Jim3k]

Tuskeegee Airmen starred Laurence Fishburn, Courtney Vance, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Andre Braugher, Allen Payne, John Lithgow, Christopher McDonald, and more. It was at the height of HBO Films making incredible movies - and fit the bill perfectly. I could watch it again and again. The ads for this Lucas-modern telling of the story seems to, much like Glory Road, modernize the language in the script to appeal to today's audiences more. While good from a marketing perspective and raising the tomatometer, it creates an air of dumbing down compared to T.A.

Tuskegee Airmen was screened in 1995, some 16-17 years ago. If Red Tails is a re-make, no one seems to be saying so. It may well be a better film, but Red Tails is the one in theaters now, having its own production issues and made by one of today's film geniuses.

As for history, I'm all for as much accurate history as possible. Netflix shows that there was a PBS documentary in 2003, which also told the story: The Tuskegee Airmen: They Fought Two Wars. In that regard, Netflix lists an earlier documentary, this one from 1994: Nightfighters - The Tuskegee Airmen. So the Tuskegee 332nd Fighter Group has had film treatment in the relatively recent past. That, IMO, does not detract from Lucas's effort today to re-tell the story. In fact, his interest in the subject suggests that the story needs to be given more exposure to new generations. We've certainly seen that with other historical stories, Civil War battles come to mind--Gettysburg in particular. Others: Lincoln assassination; Revolutionary War battles, Pearl Harbor, Normandy invasion...the list could be quite long.

All that said, Red Tails as a movie still has to stand on its own. I haven't seen it yet, but will do so shortly.

[Doug.I.Am]

Dukes of Hazzard and Pabst Blue Ribbon?


(Or do I reveal too much?)

Only if you imbibed the "tall boy" variety of PBR. Ahhhhh yes, the days...

[theAlaskanBear]

As a history buff, I've been curious about this movie for a long time. I know it's labor of love for Mr. Lucas, who grew up making WWII "movies" with his Super 8.

However, I'm a bit baffled by the end result. The subject was covered quite well in 1996 in an HBO movie titled "Tuskegee Airmen." (one of the stars was the same Cuba Gooding Jr. who stars in Red Tails). That one had a first-rate cast and explored in great detail -- and a fair degree of historical accuracy -- the racism that the Negro airmen had to overcome to reach combat and their excellence when finally given the chance.

There's actually less about the racial struggle in "Red Tails" -- and the time is devoted to more re-creations of aerial combat. Great special effects, but nothing to extend or illumate the story told in 1996.

Not a bad movie and I'm all for exposing more people to this story. Still, it's hard to feel Mr. Lucas' outrage that critics and studios don't love an unoriginal special effects-driven story (then again, the studios loved the Transformers movies et al, so maybe there is reason for his outrage). But the critics who gave "Red Tails" a lukewarm reception have consistently ripped that kind of movie.

Lucas said his goal wasn't to make a movie about discrimination and racial struggle but about war heroes -- hence the focus on action and special effects. It was deliberately made in an old-school jingo-istic style like the war movies from the 50s.

[sagegrouse]

As a history buff, I've been curious about this movie for a long time. I know it's labor of love for Mr. Lucas, who grew up making WWII "movies" with his Super 8.

However, I'm a bit baffled by the end result. The subject was covered quite well in 1996 in an HBO movie titled "Tuskegee Airmen." (one of the stars was the same Cuba Gooding Jr. who stars in Red Tails). That one had a first-rate cast and explored in great detail -- and a fair degree of historical accuracy -- the racism that the Negro airmen had to overcome to reach combat and their excellence when finally given the chance.

There's actually less about the racial struggle in "Red Tails" -- and the time is devoted to more re-creations of aerial combat. Great special effects, but nothing to extend or illumate the story told in 1996.

Not a bad movie and I'm all for exposing more people to this story. Still, it's hard to feel Mr. Lucas' outrage that critics and studios don't love an unoriginal special effects-driven story (then again, the studios loved the Transformers movies et al, so maybe there is reason for his outrage). But the critics who gave "Red Tails" a lukewarm reception have consistently ripped that kind of movie.

Tuskeegee Airmen starred Laurence Fishburn, Courtney Vance, Cuba Gooding, Jr., Andre Braugher, Allen Payne, John Lithgow, Christopher McDonald, and more. It was at the height of HBO Films making incredible movies - and fit the bill perfectly. I could watch it again and again. The ads for this Lucas-modern telling of the story seems to, much like Glory Road, modernize the language in the script to appeal to today's audiences more. While good from a marketing perspective and raising the tomatometer, it creates an air of dumbing down compared to T.A.

Tuskegee Airmen was screened in 1995, some 16-17 years ago. If Red Tails is a re-make, no one seems to be saying so. It may well be a better film, but Red Tails is the one in theaters now, having its own production issues and made by one of today's film geniuses.

As for history, I'm all for as much accurate history as possible. Netflix shows that there was a PBS documentary in 2003, which also told the story: The Tuskegee Airmen: They Fought Two Wars. In that regard, Netflix lists an earlier documentary, this one from 1994: Nightfighters - The Tuskegee Airmen. So the Tuskegee 332nd Fighter Group has had film treatment in the relatively recent past. That, IMO, does not detract from Lucas's effort today to re-tell the story. In fact, his interest in the subject suggests that the story needs to be given more exposure to new generations. We've certainly seen that with other historical stories, Civil War battles come to mind--Gettysburg in particular. Others: Lincoln assassination; Revolutionary War battles, Pearl Harbor, Normandy invasion...the list could be quite long.

All that said, Red Tails as a movie still has to stand on its own. I haven't seen it yet, but will do so shortly.

In Lucas's view, there are three movies to be made about the Tuskegee airmen. The decision (Eleanor Roosevelt was involved) to create and train the fighter pilots; the battles in WWII; and the return of the airmen to the US and what followed. He is making the second one, harkening to the WWII movie, "Leathernecks," starring John Wayne, saying these men deserve the same praise as the U.S. Marines received. Moreover, it will apparently establish new standards in air combat action. He joked at a recent event that Spike Lee should do the first movie and that another producer (mentioned in the NYTimes story) should do the third.

WRT making only indy films not blockbusters in the future: Hey,the guys got over $1 billion in the bank -- maybe that's what he wants to do.

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

Why should we care what George Lucas wants to do or that he is shunning the big studios? Has Lucas done anything really interesting or creative in the past 25 years?

-Jason "I have not seen Red Tails yet, but the commercials and trailers were weak, IMO" Evans

[weezie]

Dukes of Hazzard and Pabst Blue Ribbon?


(Or do I reveal too much?)

Post of the Day!!!

[SupaDave]

Why should we care what George Lucas wants to do or that he is shunning the big studios? Has Lucas done anything really interesting or creative in the past 25 years?

-Jason "I have not seen Red Tails yet, but the commercials and trailers were weak, IMO" Evans

Come on now J! This is the guy that gave us Howard the Duck!!