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Thread: Lost: The End

  1. #101
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Wreckage

    I've noticed several people commenting that the wreckage is a clear implication that everyone died in the plane crash.

    FWIW, ABC has 'fessed to adding the wreckage shot post-production so they would have a transition piece before the news. It was NOT from the writer-producers of Lost, so should be discounted as a significant "hint."

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    I've noticed several people commenting that the wreckage is a clear implication that everyone died in the plane crash.

    FWIW, ABC has 'fessed to adding the wreckage shot post-production so they would have a transition piece before the news. It was NOT from the writer-producers of Lost, so should be discounted as a significant "hint."
    And their summation:
    So, to review… what happened on the island, happened. Jack died on the island at the end of the story. Hurley became the new Jacob and Ben helped him. Kate and friends flew back to the mainland. The alternate story that we saw in season six was the place the survivors created so they could reconnect in the afterlife after they had all passed on, in their own time. ABC messed up. End of story.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

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  3. #103
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    It Worked for Me

    Waited a few days for the finale to sink in. While I can certainly understand what people didn't like, as a whole I thought it worked.

    Purgatory Ending

    I didn't like it, more so since they told us so adamantly 6 years ago that was the one thing they'd never do. Sure, it was only Sideways that had the Purgatory ending, but come on.

    THAT BEING SAID, even though the various reunions/realizations were cheesy and schmaltzy, they worked for me. It was an excellent tool for revisiting dead characters and getting closure for the audience. Say what you will, that worked.

    (I'm surprised that so many people are thinking Christian Purgatory here, and not one of the Eastern kinda-but-not-really equivalents. I certainly wouldn't expect to see Hindu and Buddhist symbols tossed around in a Christian Purgatory. Frankly, the scenario here seems much more like one of those places you wait before heading into your next incarnation and/or resolve issues over lifetimes, as opposed to Christian Purgatory and the emphasis on sin.)

    Mysteries

    Okay, we only got limited answers. I resolved myself to this a few weeks back when I realized that Lost had peed away the entire season and pretty much avoided most of the mysteries.

    I buy that Darlton couldn't answer at least some of the mysteries without straight out exposition (which proved highly unpopular two weeks prior during the Jacob/MiB origin episode). FWIW, the Magic Fountain doesn't irritate me that much, all myths come down to some ultimate, unexplained mystery-- on Lost that's the fountain. It's here, and it creates all sorts of weirdness. Next play. They clearly chickened out on some stuff, like telling us The Rules.

    The producers are on record as saying that after about 6 months or so, they'll give us explanations for the remaining mysteries. Not ideal, maybe not even good, but it'll do.*

    Miscellaneous

    I thought the show did a great job with things like letting Hurley get in a few Star Wars quips, Sawyer tossing a few nicknames, Miles getting in some snark, etc. They revisited fun stuff about the show/characters without turning into the Seinfeld Finale (gag me).

    I really enjoyed the moment with Hurley and Ben which culminated in Ben saying, "that's how Jacob ran things. Maybe you can do better." After so much wishywashiness over the years, Kate killing Flocke with a bullet, dishing off a Schwarzeneggar line, and yes, kissing Jack worked for me big time.

    Drama

    I totally, completely loved the Island aspects of the finale. The whole scene that culminated with Jack saying he'd kill Flocke and when asked "how?" he got in Flocke's face and said, "that's a surprise." Awesome. Totally the good Lost. Desmond screaming "No!" and making you (briefly) think that all was, ahem, lost, that was also the good Lost. Jack's death with Vincent next to him in the bamboo field and the predictable eye closing also worked.

    I thought the complaints about the Jack/Flocke fight were technically legit but overblown. Yeah, it's silly that Flocke didn't bash Jack's brains in when he had the chance, or for Jack to tell him off when he had the clear advantage, but that's how drama works. It's seems stupid, but no one wants to see the hero kneecap that bad guy FTW. They want the drawn out fight where the tide turns five times. Lost could have done better, but I still thought it worked, and finishing on the cliff was worth it.

    I've gone on way too long, so I'll finish with saying there's a lot to rave about WRT to the dramatic conclusion to the island arc. It gets an A+ in my book--- and was probably the majority of the show.

    I was really worried 2 weeks ago during the Jacob/MiB origin episode that the finale would go off the rails. Maybe that's making me grade this on a curve. But I personally think that had they figured out a way to write materially the same episode WITHOUT using a purgatory dodge to finish the Sideways arc, it would have been one of the strongest series endings ever.

    As it stands, it won't be a legend, but I do think it was an ending worthy of Lost.

    --alteran

    * Also, they apparently DID answer some stuff in the finale, but had to cut it because it didn't directly fit into the story and they needed the time. Again, could be better, but at least it's there-- if only in the DVD version.
    Last edited by alteran; 05-26-2010 at 03:16 PM.

  4. #104
    While I am in the "worked for me" camp, I thought this was hilarious:

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcarp23 View Post
    While I am in the "worked for me" camp, I thought this was hilarious:

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291
    All good questions. I wouldn't mind knowing some of those answers too!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcarp23 View Post
    While I am in the "worked for me" camp, I thought this was hilarious:

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291
    That
    video
    was
    awesome!!!

    -Jason
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  7. #107
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    I miss new posts in the Lost threads...
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
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  8. #108
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    I believe this passage from an LA Times article on the Finale is telling.
    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,3465472.story

    As the producers are in hiding, The Times went to the original source to get some clues into early notions of the island's origins. Lloyd Braun, the former president of entertainment of ABC who hired J.J. Abrams in 2004 to develop a drama about plane crash survivors on an island. Braun, who also hired Lindelof, was not at ABC when the show launched in September 2004.

    "The island was going to be a character in the series and present an ever-present threat to the people on the island," he said. "Everything was going to be rooted in science fact so that, as crazy as things might seem, there might be plausible explanations for them. And my assumption back then was that the island was some sort of experimental facility, maybe related to the military in some form. But we never, quite honestly, got into the details of what the island was. Nor did I worry about it too much because, over time when you've done this long enough, you recognize that whatever you may lay out as the mythology, it almost always changes once the show is up and running and succeeding."
    I suspect the creators had ideas for crazy things on the island (e.g. smoke monster, electromagnetism, wormholes and time travel, human experimentation, infertility, polar bears, etc.) at the outset, but no real plan as to how they would play into the broader story or be explained. The writers adapted these ideas on the fly to the story they wanted to tell. Obviously, the writers either could not explain these things in terms "science fact" or decided it was not necessary.

  9. #109
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    Cool Epilogue

    http://g4tv.com/videos/46136/Michael...rley-Epilogue/

    At the 3:10 mark, Emerson describes a 12-14 minute Hurley & Ben "Epilogue" that will be included in the DVD set. It will cover the period when Hurley was the island protector.

  10. #110
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    Lloyd Braun??? Any Seinfeld fans around who can confirm this? I know he was a whiz at pretending to sell computers for George Costanza's dad from their garage...

  11. #111
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    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...l-origins-lost

    Not sure where else to put this. I found it interesting. It confirms what most here already knew, that they had no idea where they were taking the show. I didn't realize the idea didn't originate with Abrams.

  12. #112
    Reading that article just got me mad all over again. Lots of build up about how the show got started, even the first couple seasons and then... it was over with no explanation.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverside6 View Post
    Reading that article just got me mad all over again. Lots of build up about how the show got started, even the first couple seasons and then... it was over with no explanation.
    At least it confirms what we all started to suspect as we got closer to the end: Cuse and Lindelof had no business being in charge of such a monumental project such as LOST, and shouldn't have been trusted to deliver a quality product in the first place. They made it up as they went along, and did a crappy job of it.

    It's a shame JJ Abrams had to step away so early. It could have become one of the best shows in TV history with him at the helm semi-full time.

    Now it's just one of those shows that you think of and go WTF?

  14. #114
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    You know...it's a shame really. Lost was truly an excellent show. The writing was fantastic. The acting even better. The twists were wonderful (Locke was in a wheelchair, how the drugs got on the island, the hatch and then Desmond being down there inside the hatch). Season 1 and 2 were so, so good. Then season 3 was pretty much awful, until the final twist which was maybe the best of all (that Jack and Kate were off the island). Season 4 might have been the best one of them all.

    And then, they just blew it. The back story of Jacob made no sense. The Others kept shifting and turning. The unanswered questions (why did they take the kids at the beginning, what was the list, how did the polar bears get there, how did the submarine work, what was the smoke monster, I'm just scratching the surface).

    So here's my hope...5 years from now...someone will redo it. Map out the entire story. Change is slightly (kill off more characters, have some of the original characters back playing different people), but keep the essence the same - only actually have answers. Make it mythology - I don't care - just don't cop out with "well, the guessing was part of the fun." I bet it happens (though probably in 15 years). We'll see.

    Still, some of those episodes in Season 1, 2, and 4 were the best of any drama ever on TV.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverside6 View Post
    Reading that article just got me mad all over again. Lots of build up about how the show got started, even the first couple seasons and then... it was over with no explanation.
    Great article. Fascinating story.

    The "money quotes" from the story are:

    Carlton Cuse: "We constructed a whole mythological world. Obviously, we didn't have everything plotted out."
    As the show continued to be wildly popular in those early weeks, Lindelof says, "I was completely and totally creatively crippled by people saying two things: 1) 'How are they going to keep this up?' And I had no idea. 2) 'They better have really satisfying answers to all these mysteries.' And I was like, 'We have satisfying answers for all the character ones.'"

    The development process had unfolded so quickly, there was very little time to figure out what all the weirdness meant — when I ask Lindelof how much of the mythology they had mapped out at that stage, he says, "During the pilot? None of it, to be honest with you"
    Not having it all plotted out was not the big sin, in my mind. It was their non-stop assurances that they did, in fact, have it all planned out. They kept telling us they knew what they were doing... they kept lying to us. That is what drives me crazy still to this day.

    -Jason "it is certainly worth reading the entire article" Evans
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udaman View Post
    Then season 3 was pretty much awful, until the final twist which was maybe the best of all (that Jack and Kate were off the island).
    I still remember watching the Season 3 finale, "Through the Looking Glass" and thinking, "Jack's cell phone is waay too modern. I can't believe the prop guy didn't remember to put an old-looking cell phone in this scene."

    ...and then my mind exploded a few minutes later

    -Jason "sigh... when it was good, it was sooo damn good!" Evans
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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Not having it all plotted out was not the big sin, in my mind. It was their non-stop assurances that they did, in fact, have it all planned out. They kept telling us they knew what they were doing... they kept lying to us. That is what drives me crazy still to this day.
    The audience shares the blame then. After failing to deliver on answers throughout the show, it was apparent that when the curtain was eventually pulled back, the wizard would not be as promised.

    I was frustrated with exactly this concern about half-way through the arc, and then realized how pointless that was. I gave up any hope that they had satisfying answers, and just showed up each week to enjoy the ride. And guess what? My love of the show recovered, and I enjoyed the last few seasons.

    Was the show everything that we hoped for after Seasons 1 and 2? No. But that is sadly true about many things in life. If you can just accept that Lost was not put together like an excellent series of novels, and could not be due to the nature of the Network Beast, then you can appreciate it for what it was: better than anything else the Networks have to offer (not including sports).

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    The audience shares the blame then. After failing to deliver on answers throughout the show, it was apparent that when the curtain was eventually pulled back, the wizard would not be as promised.

    I was frustrated with exactly this concern about half-way through the arc, and then realized how pointless that was. I gave up any hope that they had satisfying answers, and just showed up each week to enjoy the ride. And guess what? My love of the show recovered, and I enjoyed the last few seasons.

    Was the show everything that we hoped for after Seasons 1 and 2? No. But that is sadly true about many things in life. If you can just accept that Lost was not put together like an excellent series of novels, and could not be due to the nature of the Network Beast, then you can appreciate it for what it was: better than anything else the Networks have to offer (not including sports).
    I guess I don't really buy into this line of thinking. That we, as an audience, should have just appreciated what brilliance we got, and not expect quality storytelling the whole way through.

    It would be one thing if it were a coherent plot that made sense from beginning to end. But if you go back and watch from start to finish, there are stretches where it's very painful. I mean, the characters are still awesome and the acting is still great, but the plot from start to finish is jilted, haphazard and has more holes than swiss cheese.

    I think we can and should expect better. The article clearly shows that Cuse and Lindelof, especially toward the latter of the series, were basically left to indulge their inner geek (in particular with regard to time travel) and abandon some of the earlier major plot points (the Others, and some of the cultural/historical aspects of the Dharma Initiative) that needed loose ends tied up.

    I mean, if we just throw our hands up and say "We deserve whatever we get," then how can we expect to have quality TV or movies? Viewers voicing their opinions and demonstrating disappointment at the product that was given to us, that we "paid" for, is the only way things get better.

  19. #119
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    Damon says“What I will say is, I personally believe that it's hubris to plot out what the second and third and fourth seasons of a show are. You have to have a sense of where you want to go, but at the same time, you have to put your eye on the ball and write the season that you're writing."

    I guess Damon never heard of one of the all-time great sci-fi shows, “Babylon 5.”
    J. Michael Straczynski had this to say about the creation of Babylon 5. “Once I had the locale, I began to populate it with characters, and sketch out directions that might be interesting. I dragged out my notes on religion, philosophy, history, sociology, psychology, science (the ones that didn't make my head explode), and started stitching together a crazy quilt pattern that eventually formed a picture. Once I had that picture in my head, once I knew what the major theme was, the rest fell into place. All at once, I saw the full five year story in a flash, and I frantically began scribbling down notes.”

    As for whether we the audience deserve some of the blame for how things played out. I’m not sure I can agree with this sentiment. Throughout the life of the show, both Carlton and Damon fed into the hysteria surrounding the mythos they were creating. They did this in numerous interviews and podcasts, which were specifically targeted at the geeks who stuck with the show, after the water cooler crowd had abandoned the show.
    I wish this topic hadn’t been resurected again as I’m still pretty annoyed at how the show ended. I’ve got Season 1-5 on DVD and am so pissed that I refuse to buy the final season. If you’re going to do a TV show and create a vast and complex mythology to center your show around, then you’d better be ready to deliver the goods.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    As for whether we the audience deserve some of the blame for how things played out. I’m not sure I can agree with this sentiment. Throughout the life of the show, both Carlton and Damon fed into the hysteria surrounding the mythos they were creating. They did this in numerous interviews and podcasts, which were specifically targeted at the geeks who stuck with the show, after the water cooler crowd had abandoned the show.

    I wish this topic hadn’t been resurected again as I’m still pretty annoyed at how the show ended. I’ve got Season 1-5 on DVD and am so pissed that I refuse to buy the final season. If you’re going to do a TV show and create a vast and complex mythology to center your show around, then you’d better be ready to deliver the goods.
    I didn't mean to imply that the audience should be blamed for how the story played out. The audience only shares culpability for its own reaction. Specifically, I am talking about those who enjoyed the show along the way, only to be massively disappointed at the ending, and have their prior enjoyment turn to outrage.

    It's a "fool once, fool me twice" kind of thing. Sure, Cuse and Lindelof repeatedly promissed big and wonderful things. But after about 3 or 4 seasons, it was pretty clear that they couldn't deliver all that seemed possible after seasons 1 and 2. Expectations should have been downgraded. Grand promises from the writers should have been met with skepticism.

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