903!! MBB: Duke 74, Michigan State 69 Post Game Thread

[SCMatt33]

First, Congrats Coach K!

As for the game, I don't think that the game tape from this games will be preserved by the Library of Congress any time soon. As for the final score, you can break it down that Duke was sloppy and made a lot of mistakes, but Michigan State was sloppier and made a lot more mistakes. With the way the game went, I really don't have many other game specific thoughts, but I do have a lot of big picture things.

It's hard to comment on certain things exactly since the official box score has yet to be released, but it looks like we played around even with them on the boards give or take a few. This team destroyed UNC on the boards. This actually says less to me about our pure rebounding ability than it does about this teams' ability to follow a game plan. The Plumlees were hardly dominant against them on the boards, but did a good job of keeping rebounds alive and the guards did a great job of crashing in to scoop up loose balls. Clearly, team rebounding was a focus in the prep for this game, just like the press was a focus of prep for Belmont. Both times, Duke did a great job of implementing that into the game. This teams is willing to learn, and willing to do what it takes, but bringing it all together will take time. The question is how long? It could be by January, or the season could end before it happens, but the process is on its way.

Also, a lot of people mentioned that this team is "inexperienced." That's only partially true. Of the seven guys who got major minutes tonight, 5 have been on the roster for two years together already. Throw in Tyler, who fit in pretty seamlessly last year, and you have 6 guys who already have great chemistry. All six also saw significant minutes last year, including Tyler, who did an admirable job eating some minutes with Kyrie hurt. I also wonder a bit if those six are still getting used to Austin and Austin getting used to everyone else. Last year, Kyrie came in college ready from a basketball factory school. Austin comes from a high school team on which he was the only real talent. When he's on, it doesn't matter, but when he's not, he has a hard time getting others involved and they have a hard time getting him involved. I don't think its a coincidence that it was after he went out with his third foul that Duke took it from a 1 point game to a 17 or 18 point game by the time he came back. Having Austin fit in with everyone will take some time, and again, it could be a month, or it might not happen completely by the end of the year, we don't know.

The rotation is also interesting. After 2 legit games, it's pretty clear that Coach K is going with a 7 2/2 man rotation, the two halves being Cook and Hairston picking up spot minutes in the first half to give guys an extra bit of rest. The question is whether one of Cook, Hairston, Murphy, or Gbinije can show enough in practice to get significant minutes. I have a feeling that someone might do it for ACC season, but when push comes to shove at tourney time, the 7 guys who see big minutes now are going to be the ones on the floor.

The perimeter D has been a point of concern for awhile now, and this was really the only place that Michigan State was exploiting Duke's D. Time and again, they broke down defenders in one-on-one match ups. Michigan state had a lot of turnovers in this game, but unlike Belmont, a lot of them were self inflicted. I just didn't see Duke getting enough steals, easy boards, and fast break points to justify allowing Michigan State to get to rim at will. Incidentally, we were also lucky that they missed a ton of layups. None of us have been in practice, but Coach K must see something to make him think that this will get better or I'd imagine that we'd see guys start to back off a little. It's important to remember with the perimeter D that the first step is everything. It's not always about speed or athleticism, but reaction time. You have to recognize and be in lock step with the ball handler on the first step or it's over.

The last thing is the Plumlee offense. They had some first moves in the first two games that didn't work tonight. Most big guys on good teams won't be beat on the slow developing two or three dribble moves that they used against Belmont and PC. We saw that moves that worked best were the ones where Mason was able to beat his defender in one dribble. He got that on that hook shot and there were a few time that he had them beat on one dribble but got fouled before he could get a shot off. That's not to say that he should never take more than one dribble on a post move, but when it takes more than one dribble to at least get face up, it's probably a good idea to pass back out.

Finally, Duke has really bailed itself out with hot three point shooting, at almost 50% for the year. This is clearly not sustainable. We've already seen the team go brick city from three in that first exhibition game. Three point shooting is never something that can be consistent from game to game, and shooting half of your field goals from the outside is not a good formula for later on. They played a team with tough big guys, but with Austin spending significant amounts of time off the floor, Dawkins and Curry were the primary options and they have to mix in other stuff with their jump shot. They don't have break-you-down moves, but they have to find ways to probe the D, and be crafty to get floaters and layups for themselves or a big.

The end game was also interesting. Everyone on the floor seemed a little lethargic (both teams), and it looked like Izzo had actually given up before they had the four point play with the foul on the three pointer and offensive board. I'm not too worried about it yet given some of the weird stuff that happened, like Tyler slipping on the stupid sticker. If it keeps happening, I'll get more concerned.

With that huge post, the box score was finally posted. Duke only lost the rebounding battle 32-31, but they were actually further behind than it looked because Michigan State missed a lot more shots. That means if rebounding percentage were equal, Duke would have several more boards in the game. Still, we didn't get killed, and most of the problem was getting offensive rebounds for ourselves. The team did a great job and held them to just 25% offensive rebounding, which is pretty darn good against Michigan State. BTW, shout out to Seth for having 7 boards.

I was also satisfied with the free throw shooting at 73%. That number is usually just good, but when Mason has a quarter of the shots, that's really good. Speaking of Mason's shooting, he really seems to have his shots on line, but is just really inconsistent with the distance. If you're going to be accurate on only one axis, that's the better one. It gives the ball a chance to bounce in, and it's more conducive to rebounding as the ball will go back towards the shooter into the pile, as opposed to the side where the defenders have position.

There's probably more, but all in all, this team is really sloppy and needs to improve big time, but there are positives there. Once again, congrats Coach K!!

[devildeac]

Haven't seen this one yet:

70px-NC_903.svg.png

From NCDOT.

[BobbyFan]

The Duke Blue Planet Twitter feed posted a pic
http://twitpic.com/7eqxuj

I spot the following guys, some faces look familiar but I can't place them (is that T.Hill talking to Brand?):
Dunleavy, Battier, Duhon, Hurley, Abdelnaby, Brand, Boozer, Hill, Kyrie

Any chance that is Matt Christensen in the back wearing the red/orange?

And Dunleavy looks like he came from 1999.

[Jackson]

Any chance that is Matt Christensen in the back wearing the red/orange?

And Dunleavy looks like he came from 1999.

Kenny Dennard is in that pic too.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I thought Mason played better than some are giving him credit for. Yes, he only took 3 shots, but his 10 free throws were largely a result of assertive offensive moves. 5-10 free throws actually is progress, so hopefully that will continue to trend upwards. I also thought there should have been a goal tend called on one of his hooks, and he made another nice hook, unfortunately after a travel. He made himself a threat. He also made some great passes and defended against a lot of size, until the final minutes when we went to the matador defense. Ryan has become reliable and has added some variation to his game. Miles, on the other hand, had a really off game.

Austin at least showed that he can get by people, which the team needs. He also is starting to look to pass at times, but needs to be stronger with the ball and to finish the layups when he gets there. I think he'll really grow throughout the year.

Obviously, great to see a big game from Dawkins.

I saw Murphy shooting around pre-game. Is he still out with the concussion? I thought he showed enough promise in preseason that I would be surprised if he redshirts.

Thank you, Coach K!!!!!

[fc3]

Agree with earlier post that this is a night to celebrate, not criticize. Imagine the pressure with all the former players there, hype, etc. Coach K was going to get it eventually, but nice that he calmly stared it down and moved on on the first try.

Wish we could have Bilas and Knight announce all our games. Interesting that Vitale has been conspicuously absent so far this season, wonder if that is intentional.

Go Duke!

[J4Kop99]

Agree with earlier post that this is a night to celebrate, not criticize. Imagine the pressure with all the former players there, hype, etc. Coach K was going to get it eventually, but nice that he calmly stared it down and moved on on the first try.

Wish we could have Bilas and Knight announce all our games. Interesting that Vitale has been conspicuously absent so far this season, wonder if that is intentional.

Go Duke!

Turn on ESPN right now and listen closely.

[loldevilz]

I thought Mason played better than some are giving him credit for. Yes, he only took 3 shots, but his 10 free throws were largely a result of assertive offensive moves. 5-10 free throws actually is progress, so hopefully that will continue to trend upwards. I also thought there should have been a goal tend called on one of his hooks, and he made another nice hook, unfortunately after a travel. He made himself a threat. He also made some great passes and defended against a lot of size, until the final minutes when we went to the matador defense. Ryan has become reliable and has added some variation to his game. Miles, on the other hand, had a really off game.

I agree partially with what you are saying. I thought Mason really was able to get to the free throw line at will in the second half. The problem is that he still can't hit free throws at all. At times it feels like he is so close to getting it, but he just can't seem to put it all together.

Also, Ryan really needs to start. I don't understand why he is the first off the bench when he has shown that he is much more valuable than either of the Plums.

Lastly, this might seem out of left field but I feel that Hairston should maybe be moved ahead of Miles in the rotation. Hairston did a great job on Green and he doesn't turn the ball over. I think he is ready for more minutes.

[brumby041]

What is the impetus for "going to the monitor"?

They went for Mason's (stupid) elbow and Nix's box out, neither of which I thought warranted a call. Yet they let the (obvious to me) knee to Thornton's head go??? That looked like it had to potential to really hurt Tyler.

Would love an explanation.

-Brumby

[-bdbd]

Curry
Rivers
Dawk
Kelly
Mason

Should be our starting line-up from now on. Miles is still having some serious trouble on both ends.

Agree. It was interesting to see who was on the floor at crunch time. Obviously Andre had a monster night. But I thought Mason, Kelly and Curry all stepped up in their own, often quiet, ways. Good also to see solid minutes and contrubtions by Cook, Thorton, and Hairston. Obviously a down night for Miles. And Austin will certainly see better nights while at Duke - he seems too often like he's not playing within himself or within the offense - trying too hard to make something happen by himself.

Since I so often rag on them, I should acknowledge that ESPN did a good job of spotlighting this milestone for K. The extended "talking heads" session set on center court after the game - Jay, Digger, Davis and the host - was well done and just "nice." Jay sure did seem giddy for K though - but witty as always (I'm almost always proud that he's one of us!).

And nice after-game moments and comments from K - explaining that the ball will go into the Duke BB Hall of Fame, "This ball is the sort of thing that doesn't belong to a coach...it belongs to a school and a program..." Ixzo, classy as always. Great to see the K-Knight embrace and private words. The presentation. K's hugs and kisses for Micky and his daughters, and especially with his brother. Very nicely done all around. Now, how long before the boorish 'heeeeelz fans start deriding it "barely hanging on for a win against a team that NC "blew out" just a few days earlier... ??? (Sigh.)

[Bojangles4Eva]

Congrats on 903, and may there be many more!

In tonight’s game I saw a lot of talent and inexperience, and the latter will get better with time. While it is uncomfortable to see two large leads cut down in two intense games, the ability to create a lead when one was needed, and eventually win should not be looked over. I think Jay Bilas said towards the end of the game that Duke has their plan, they just need to practice it, while Michigan State needed to go back to the drawing board. I totally agree with this. All of our problems can be worked out which is why I am happy about this game. A W is a W...now prepare for Davidson.

[-bdbd]

Anybody know if there are any plans to recognize this achievement back in Cameron on Friday night in front of the Duke faithful??

[dukebsbll14]

Anybody know if there are any plans to recognize this achievement back in Cameron on Friday night in front of the Duke faithful??

According to the facebook event started by the Head LM's, there will be a ceremony after the game.

[Troublemaker]

Dawk won the game for Duke in the first half. I mean, you kinda knew Michigan St. was in trouble when at halftime they had thoroughly outplayed Duke to that point and was still trailing by 1. That was all due to Dawk's one-man show in the first half. In the second half, the rest of the team calmed down, started playing to our capabilities and was able to cruise to a big lead before hanging on at the end there.

I can't say enough about Dawk. I believe he's a clutch shooter and that's a nice weapon to have in Duke's arsenal. I'll forever be grateful for the two three's he hit against Baylor his freshman year that helped send Duke to the Final Four. He of course sealed the game against Belmont in the season opener this year, and now this. With countless former Duke greats looking on and with all the media attention about 903 and all the self-imposed pressure to win it for Coach K, the entire team played jittery in the first half except for one man who shot lights out and allowed the team to weather the storm. Gotta love that kid. Hopefully this game will springboard him into becoming a consistent starter for the rest of the season.

[Troublemaker]

I thought Mason played better than some are giving him credit for. Yes, he only took 3 shots, but his 10 free throws were largely a result of assertive offensive moves. 5-10 free throws actually is progress, so hopefully that will continue to trend upwards. I also thought there should have been a goal tend called on one of his hooks, and he made another nice hook, unfortunately after a travel. He made himself a threat. He also made some great passes and defended against a lot of size, until the final minutes when we went to the matador defense. Ryan has become reliable and has added some variation to his game. Miles, on the other hand, had a really off game.

Thank you, Coach K!!!!!

Agreed. Mason had a good game. I give him a ton of credit for helping Michigan St miss close-in shots with his shotblocking presence and length. Sure, MSU's post players aren't the most polished, but I firmly believe the intimidation factor played a part as well.

He's become a guy that we can rely on in the post. He has scoring moves, improved touch, and just as importantly, good court vision and passing ability to find cutters and open shooters. You can now throw the ball into him in the post and be pretty confident that something positive will happen. That's a great weapon to have in the arsenal.

Also agree that Miles struggled mightily. He's still not able to translate his practice dominance to real live game play. Yet. Hopefully it'll come at some point this season because we'll definitely need him to round out a very good 3-man post rotation. He's the missing piece right now with Ryan and Mason being so solid. If he can play with more confidence and have poise when he receives the ball, then he'll start to see the kickout opportunities and reduce the strips and fumbling of passes that he has suffered through.

Overall I like where we're at. We're a good team right now who has a lot of upside contained in Rivers and Miles finding their games at some point this season. We have time.

[superdave]

This was a game of runs - not necessarily scoring runs, but runs of momentum and lucky bounces. MSU outplayed Duke for most of the first half. We were flat and a step slow, then our D woke up about 5 minutes in. But the first half was theirs and we still managed to go into the locker room with the lead thanks to Dawkins barrage. I'll take it. We held them without a FG for about 7 minutes in the second half if I recall. Our offense was patient, our D was physical and quick. There's a reason MSU missed a lot of point blank shots - we contested them well. The MSU cut the lead from 20 to 5 before running out of time.

Defense - The Duke front line played the MSU front line pretty well on the defensive end. That's a good sign. But our bigs are not rotating to help out when a perimeter player gets beat. This has to improve or we'll be watching teams spread and drive on us all year. Our bigs had their backs to the ball and their heads down, and there was not enough communication. This could be tough vs. Ohio State.

Offensive Spacing, Chemistry - On offense our spacing is pretty sucky. Guys dont know quite where the ball handler wants the screen, or the timing of the ball screen. This is an issue of chemistry and reps in my opinion. I bet by January we'll see a big difference on offensive flow, and less of guys crowding each other and misreading each other's intentions. Hopefully with the emphasis on feeding the post, we become consistent at reading those angles and making the right pass. We have the bigs to play some nice high-low, and those bigs can find shooters on the wings too.

Free Throws - We got to the line pretty well tonight. Seth, Austin and Mason all attacked enough to draw fouls. This is a great way to start a game and begin to get into a rhythm. This can be a good way to both manufacture points while our chemistry gels and for end of game situations.

I've seen improvement over three games. I'll take it. Next step...guys settling into consistent roles and performances.

[gcashwell]

I have actually liked the way the Plumlees have played this season. Even tonight, Miles was tough. I keep thinking it will click for him at some point.

Ryan Kelly and Andre were incredible.

I have been very disappointed in Rivers' inability to finish close to the basket. I'm afraid defenses will figure him out pretty soon. It seems like he is able to get to the line a lot in the first half, then they adjust to him in the second. I understand he should improve as this is only his 3rd (really second) real game.

Tyler Thornton is essential to this team. I actually think he should play more minutes than Rivers.

I would like to see Dre, Curry, Thorton, either Plumlee, and Kelly get the most minutes at this point.

[Kedsy]

I expected us to be outplayed in the post, but the lack of post play was still surprising. Bad showing by the frontcourt offensively on this stage.

Our three big guys outscored their three big guys 22 to 14 (and Michigan State is a frontcourt-dominated team). So what's wrong with that?

Right now- no lead is safe with this team.

Well, since we've won every game, I'd say so far every lead is safe.

Lastly, this might seem out of left field but I feel that Hairston should maybe be moved ahead of Miles in the rotation. Hairston did a great job on Green and he doesn't turn the ball over. I think he is ready for more minutes.

Miles was really good on the China trip, in practice (from what we've heard) and in the first two games this season (especially his 13 and 11 against Presbyterian), but you think Josh should play more than Miles based on 5 minutes against Michigan State? We contained Green the entire game (not just the 5 minutes Josh played), and where do you get that Josh doesn't turn the ball over? His turnover per minute percentage this season (0.10) is about the same as Miles's (0.11).

Miles didn't play so well tonight, but it's one game. Andre didn't play so well the first two games, but he showed what he could do tonight. I think if we, as fans, can stop thinking that the most recent game defines everything we'll all be a lot happier.

Also, whoever was complaining about our bigs only taking 7 shots needs to factor in the fact that our bigs took 18 free throws.

I agree with whoever suggested Andre's defensive contributions were almost as important as his offense. We were all worried about how we'd deal with a big "3" like Dawson, but Dawson had 9 points and 3 rebounds. Andre also had 3 rebounds. I think we won that battle.

Finally, just looking at our two close games so far, anyone who thinks we'll be going more than 7 deep once January or February rolls around is deluding himself. Maybe 8 deep if Quinn or Alex can work their way into the rotation, but at this point that looks like a long shot.

[DukieTiger]

Finally, just looking at our two close games so far, anyone who thinks we'll be going more than 7 deep once January or February rolls around is deluding himself. Maybe 8 deep if Quinn or Alex can work their way into the rotation, but at this point that looks like a long shot.

While I agree to a certain extent that K isn't likely to play a very deep bench late in the season, I just don't think we can rule it out at this point. There are too many guys with potential and too much opportunity to earn time to say that the Seth-Austin-Dre-Ryan-Miles-Mason-Tyler rotation is all there is, long-term, for this team. There is no telling how guys like Quinn and Alex, as you mentioned, are going to develop- to say nothing of Gbinije and Hairston. I don't know that we can summarize this Duke team as easily as past teams, simply because there is SO much room to grow and develop.

Just my 2 cents.

[g-money]

Dawk won the game for Duke in the first half. I mean, you kinda knew Michigan St. was in trouble when at halftime they had thoroughly outplayed Duke to that point and was still trailing by 1. That was all due to Dawk's one-man show in the first half. In the second half, the rest of the team calmed down, started playing to our capabilities and was able to cruise to a big lead before hanging on at the end there.

I can't say enough about Dawk. I believe he's a clutch shooter and that's a nice weapon to have in Duke's arsenal. I'll forever be grateful for the two three's he hit against Baylor his freshman year that helped send Duke to the Final Four. He of course sealed the game against Belmont in the season opener this year, and now this. With countless former Duke greats looking on and with all the media attention about 903 and all the self-imposed pressure to win it for Coach K, the entire team played jittery in the first half except for one man who shot lights out and allowed the team to weather the storm. Gotta love that kid. Hopefully this game will springboard him into becoming a consistent starter for the rest of the season.

Agreed, I thought Dawkins was hitting shots tonight that even JJ would have missed. It's clear Andre has put in the work to develop a picture-perfect jump shot. Now if he can just build some confidence around attacking the basket off the dribble (which is also a function of practice and hard work IMO), he can become a complete player and emerge as one of Duke's stars. I also loved his hustle on the defensive end and the fact that he was speaking up in the huddle before FTs.

Keep it up Andre!!!