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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Newton_14 View Post
    Tough loss and I hate it for Marshall. After enduring Friday night in Greensboro however, I will share zero sympathy with UNC fans. (Other than Chicago Heel, Closet Hurley and Wheat of course)
    Also shoutingncu. Unless you and shoutingncu are mortal enemies, in which case I butt out.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    "If you can't beat 'em, beat 'em up" has been the mid-major game plan for years. Certainly against "soft" Duke teams - at least when the refs "let 'em play". Gets really old, really fast, too.

    Hope Marshall can play with a soft cast.

    -jk
    Heck, -jk, that has been some of the acc teams' plan against Duke teams for a decade or so, and then, when the fouls mount, whine like crazy about it (cough, hewitt, cough, skinner, cough, greenberg).

    I hope Marshall is fully recovered/heeled (sic) in 6-8 weeks after his cast is removed and/or surgery is completed. Just in time to work out/declare for the nba draft with Zeller, Henson and the black pigeon.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    First, tough news for Marshall and for UNC. Hopefully he heals okay.

    With regard to his play in the game afterward, he was terrific. However, I suspect two things play in here:
    1. Adrenaline lets you keep going. I played the entire second half of a game with a broken shooting hand. I even hit a 3. I though I'd just jammed a finger. Turned out I broke my 4th metacarpal (ring finger bone in the hand). It felt a bit painful but I could deal with it. It hurt like all get out when I got home that night and I had to get it casted the next day.
    2. Very likely nobody on the other team realized the severity of the injury. If they did, they'd have almost certainly overplayed his left hand (forcing him right, which would either cause him to give the ball up, dribble with his right hand, or expose the ball to the defender by dribbling with his left hand) and/or started fouling him on the bad wrist. It's the reason why NHL teams don't disclose the specifics on injury. If the other team knows where you are hurt, they'll test it for you.

    For these two reasons, I'd be shocked if he's able to play effectively next weekend or even the following weekend. Even if he's able to play with a cast, good teams are going to force him to his right. And I just don't see how he can be effective going right with a cast on his broken wrist. It's just really hard to be an effective ballhandler/playmaker when the other team knows you only have one hand.

    Hard to know how this will go- but the Heels will have a much tougher road ahead. They still have lots of talent and you never know. I would never say they are done as mentioned on the home page. UNC can still make a run given they are playing Ohio- not exactly the toughest sweet sixteen matchup. If they can get to the FF- you never know.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Also shoutingncu. Unless you and shoutingncu are mortal enemies, in which case I butt out.
    Good catch gumb's. I thought I missed one. So yes, I definitely sympathize with shoutingncu as well. Losing any other player could be reckoned with, but Marshall drives the bus and has no backup. I think Watts will be in the gym tonight working on his PG skills when the guys get home.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHeel View Post
    That's it for us. Just devastating. We can win another game, only because of the level of the competition, but it's hard to imagine we'll go any further if he is sidelined.

    I don't know how it happened, and I doubt it was intentional, but Creighton was fouling HARD that game. See the video below. Watch the double fore-arm to Zeller's neck.

    I understand that playing physical against UNC is part of every scouting report, but I do wish the refs had reined it in a bit. Again, I am not saying that Marshall's injury was the result of an excessively hard foul. But I'll be curious to see the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IYQ0...e_gdata_player
    That's a real bummer, ChicagoHeel. As much as I'd enjoy seeing Carolina lose fair and square, I wouldn't wish this sort of thing on my (or Duke's) worst enemy. Best of luck the rest of the way.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by dukedoc View Post
    This is exactly right. If not treated appropriately, scaphoid injuries can lead to avascular necrosis, which is essentially permanent deterioration due to lack of adequate blood supply. It is possible he will play, but he/they will be playing with fire in risking long-term chronic issues for the sake of the here and now. This is the tournament, though, so I wouldn't be completely surprised if they found a way to keep him on the court.

    Clint Jackson is also tweeting about surgical screws as if Kendall would be 100% after leaving the operating room after such a procedure. Not that simple. There is still significant healing that has to occur even after such a procedure and significant symptoms that linger for a while. Even if he were to play he would not likely play anywhere near his full capacity.
    It really depends on the location of the fracture and whether there are any additional injuries. The part of the scaphoid furthest from the wrist joint toward the fingers has relatively good blood supply and the part closest to the fingers relatively poor. Just by the fact it's visible on x-ray (only modality that could be done quickly enough after or during the game for Roy to be able to comment) it has to be worse than a hairline or non-displaced fracture. I could see a scenario where he could have surgery Mon or Tues and hope for the best; I too doubt he'd play next weekend but could the following with a splint. I don't see a scenario where he'd play without surgery; the potential of three weeks before any surgery would be performed could severely jeopardize his likelihood of healing.

  7. #47

    Heels are not done

    First of all Marshall may be able to play with some kind of cast.

    Even without him, you have to play the games.


    SoCal

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Lovable ol' huck.

    "Kendall has a fractured wrist and that's all I can tell you," North Carolina coach Roy Williams said. " We don't know. He's got a fracture of the scaphoid bone of the right wrist. And you can ask any question you want, but I just told you all we know. We do not know anything else. So be intelligent and don't ask. We'll speak to the hand specialist tonight with Kendall and his family and we'll see what happens after that."

    dbag

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Hard to know how this will go- but the Heels will have a much tougher road ahead. They still have lots of talent and you never know. I would never say they are done as mentioned on the home page. UNC can still make a run given they are playing Ohio- not exactly the toughest sweet sixteen matchup. If they can get to the FF- you never know.

    Obviously, if Marshall is out, it is a huge loss for UNC. That said, they would have a fairly good shot at beating Ohio...How about a fourth match-up with NC STATE? My guess is that the NC State fanbase and team would relish the opportunity.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by DUKIE V(A) View Post
    Obviously, if Marshall is out, it is a huge loss for UNC. That said, they would have a fairly good shot at beating Ohio...How about a fourth match-up with NC STATE? My guess is that the NC State fanbase and team would relish the opportunity.
    State would love it for sure. Kansas is struggling at the moment.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    "If you can't beat 'em, beat 'em up" has been the mid-major game plan for years. Certainly against "soft" Duke teams - at least when the refs "let 'em play". Gets really old, really fast, too.

    Hope Marshall can play with a soft cast.

    -jk
    The Big Ten-ification of college hoops is very frustrating. The grabbing, holding and moving screens are getting more and more commonplace. It does get old very fast.
    Windy City Devil

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by billy View Post
    It really depends on the location of the fracture and whether there are any additional injuries. The part of the scaphoid furthest from the wrist joint toward the fingers has relatively good blood supply and the part closest to the fingers relatively poor. Just by the fact it's visible on x-ray (only modality that could be done quickly enough after or during the game for Roy to be able to comment) it has to be worse than a hairline or non-displaced fracture. I could see a scenario where he could have surgery Mon or Tues and hope for the best; I too doubt he'd play next weekend but could the following with a splint. I don't see a scenario where he'd play without surgery; the potential of three weeks before any surgery would be performed could severely jeopardize his likelihood of healing.
    All good points. Curious to see how this plays out. Certainly a chance he'll be back on the court before the tourney ends, provided UNC continues to win without him. However, even if he's reduced and fixed in the OR, it's hard to imagine he'll be anything like his true self without weeks of requisite rest and rehabilitation. Sad for the kid, he's a good person and player.

    Addendum: Ah! Just saw that you're in Orthopedics on your profile. I will defer to your expertise and commentary. I'm an internist and pediatrician. I deal with joints/scaphoids, but in a far less sophisticated manner than you.

  13. #53
    Did Henson reinjure wrist, too? Severity?

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    What can you say when your team is so unlucky with injuries?
    It really sucks, but sometimes things just happen and you have to deal with it and move on.

    Assuming KM is out...I would actually start White and back him up with Watts.

    The kid has impressed me with his toughness, heady play and quickness in his limited minutes. He can shoot it and has some court vision. The team plays with confidence when he's on the floor and seems to trust him. I think he's gonna surprise people with some extended minutes.

    He's gonna be outmatched defensively, but I think he can run the offense.

    Got to give credit to Roy for having White ready for this possibility. That's good coaching. For a late recruiting find, I think White was a perfect fit for the UNC system.

    I've been preaching good outside shooting was needed to be elite, now it has to be great or at least very good. We saw today how good the team can be if they are making some outside shots. If PJ can step it up, Reggie and Barnes at least don't shoot bad, I still think this team can make the final four.

    It's going to be hard, really hard, to win the title now, but I hope the team is not listening to the press and some fans. They can win without KM, it will just take a greater effort.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    What can you say when your team is so unlucky with injuries?
    It really sucks, but sometimes things just happen and you have to deal with it and move on.

    Assuming KM is out...I would actually start White and back him up with Watts.

    The kid has impressed me with his toughness, heady play and quickness in his limited minutes. He can shoot it and has some court vision. The team plays with confidence when he's on the floor and seems to trust him. I think he's gonna surprise people with some extended minutes.

    He's gonna be outmatched defensively, but I think he can run the offense.

    Got to give credit to Roy for having White ready for this possibility. That's good coaching. For a late recruiting find, I think White was a perfect fit for the UNC system.

    I've been preaching good outside shooting was needed to be elite, now it has to be great or at least very good. We saw today how good the team can be if they are making some outside shots. If PJ can step it up, Reggie and Barnes at least don't shoot bad, I still think this team can make the final four.

    It's going to be hard really hard to win the title now, but I hope the team is not listening to the press and some fans. They can win without KM, it will just take a greater effort.

    Thanks for bringing us back on topic, Wheat!

    I'm not sure if I agree with you on starting White over Watts, but you make excellent points. I just think White is better served in the back-up role for you guys. I'm not sure he's gonna take you to the promised land.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    What can you say when your team is so unlucky with injuries?
    It really sucks, but sometimes things just happen and you have to deal with it and move on.

    Assuming KM is out...I would actually start White and back him up with Watts.

    The kid has impressed me with his toughness, heady play and quickness in his limited minutes. He can shoot it and has some court vision. The team plays with confidence when he's on the floor and seems to trust him. I think he's gonna surprise people with some extended minutes.

    He's gonna be outmatched defensively, but I think he can run the offense.

    Got to give credit to Roy for having White ready for this possibility. That's good coaching. For a late recruiting find, I think White was a perfect fit for the UNC system.

    I've been preaching good outside shooting was needed to be elite, now it has to be great or at least very good. We saw today how good the team can be if they are making some outside shots. If PJ can step it up, Reggie and Barnes at least don't shoot bad, I still think this team can make the final four.

    It's going to be hard, really hard, to win the title now, but I hope the team is not listening to the press and some fans. They can win without KM, it will just take a greater effort.
    I agree- They have what is shaping up as an usually easy path next weekend- It gets tougher after that- but there is a lot basketball left to play. The most challenging team for them to play is NC State - who knows them well already.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    i hate it for marshall, but no sympathy for the Tar Heels...and you can't count them out until the scoreboard is a fourple ought and they have less points ...


    they are still very good....
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by CoachJ10 View Post
    The Big Ten-ification of college hoops is very frustrating. The grabbing, holding and moving screens are getting more and more commonplace. It does get old very fast.
    I totally agree, and been saying it for years. "Letting them play" diminishes the advantage the better athletes have. Let them show their skils.

    Call the ;/(& fouls. Every time, against every player.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I totally agree, and been saying it for years. "Letting them play" diminishes the advantage the better athletes have. Let them show their skils.

    Call the ;/(& fouls. Every time, against every player.
    I think college hoops has gotten too physical as well (CJ Leslie got killed on a breakaway dunk attempt today), but after watching the Marshall play, it was just a guy trying to block a shot at the rim. It was just an unfortunate thing that Marshall landed with his arm trapped under his body. Certainly not flagrant or over the top physical. Some of the fouls in that game were, but certainly not that one.

    UNC and Duke both are just plain snake bit the last couple of years with injuries wrecking a season.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I totally agree, and been saying it for years. "Letting them play" diminishes the advantage the better athletes have. Let them show their skils.

    Call the ;/(& fouls. Every time, against every player.
    Agreed. Kills the games. This is why we see so many 50 point scores in men's college ball.

    And it kills teams like Duke, who can't get open when they're being held off screens or bodied on the perimeter.

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