MBB: Duke 72, Virginia Tech 65 Post-game Thread

[DukeUsul]

I bumped into Greg Paulus at brunch this morning. I was charged with an offensive foul. :-P

Good gritty game by the men. I really like this team. Obviously I'd love to see perfect FT shooting late, but we seem to be playing stronger down the stretch than the past few years.

[weezie]

Two favorite "Sethmoments" from the game: 1)while he was kneeling courtside, complaining to the ref and the ref bent down to hear what old Seth-berg had to say...the ref actually bent over since Sethy was too chagrined to stand up and talk to the ref and 2) the Sethster chummily reaching out and wrapping his arm around the ref's shoulder while chatting about some imagined infraction and Sethy's disappointment over not being allowed to let his players loose like yard dogs.

I can only imagine the yowling hordes if K had the temerity to hug a ref during a game.

[SMO]

I can't believe so many people are complaining about the technical foul called on Henderson. It was absolutely the correct call. It doesn't matter if he said anything or not. He very clearly and demonstratively stared down Vassallo after the dunk, which is considered taunting. The refs are supposed to call the unsportsmanlike penalty there. Players simply aren't allowed to do that. Sometimes it doesn't get called, but it is supposed to be called. Did he get fouled? Probably, and that should have been called too. But that doesn't absolve Henderson from getting called for unsportsmanlike.

My issue is that they didn't T up Vassallo when he did the exact same thing after a dunk over Scheyer.

[Papa John]

Stop terping.

It appears perhaps that someone needs to teach you the definition of "terping"... As I pointed out, both teams had legitimate reasons to complain about the officiating--it was atrocious all around, however you wish to dice it... That, my friend, is far from "terping"... (if you want a good example of "terping," feel free to read Seth Greenberg's comments from yesterday's post-game interview--that was "terping.")

I rarely comment on officiating, and know the game very well, thank you... I merely pointed out a couple of situations [and agreed with a fourth raised by another poster--the Scheyer trey where he was streamrolled on the sideline by VaTech] that provided the clearest examples from our perspective of how horrendous the officiating in this game actually was, and indicated my opinion that Scheyer was gang-mugged during the infamous travel call in the last 20 seconds [i.e., the violations canceled one another out]... Perhaps you were at the grocery store then, too--I don't know...

Watch a replay of the Singler play, since you also missed that one... It is the type of play that would likely earn a fine in the NBA, and should always earn a suspension in college--that's how bad of a missed whistle it was... Oddly, I have not heard the analysts mention that play once in post-game commentaries...

[mcdukie]

My issue is that they didn't T up Vassallo when he did the exact same thing after a dunk over Scheyer.

My issue is that Vassallo clearly fouled G on the dunk. I agree that G can't express that much emotion and not expect to get a T. We live and we learn.

[Channing]

for the Duke gets all the calls folks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg

clearly the refs just call it as they see it, and if they dont see something, its not duke's fault.

[devildeac]

G's tech -- after it was called, G clapped his hands as if showing that he agreed with it. He was showing off a bit and got called for it. I wouldn't have blown the whistle for it, but so be it. You didn't see anyone else showing up after that.

Singler -- yeah, that was a cheap shot. Not sure if it was better or worse than the elbow Singler threw in the Carolina game. Like Singler, the VT guy should've gotten a tech if it had been seen. But I wouldn't start throwing "the league should take action" stones.

Refs -- I thought it was pretty consistent both ways. Not great, but not the travesty being described on this thread. We got every charge call except the seventh one Scheyer took (which was a more clear charge than several that fell our way). Those are close calls that, in many cases, could have gone the other way. We didn't get those calls because we're Duke -- we got them because they called that type of defensive step-up consistently all game. We adjusted, VT did not. Simple.

Announcers -- any criticism of them is probably too mild. They blew chunks.

T on G-OK give him that one for "woofing." But I want one called on Vasallo then, too, for complaining to the refs by waving his arms up and down after he was called for a foul. It was right after the call, he's looking right at a ref and complaining about the call.

Singler's elbow was called as he wrestled for ball control. Flagrant/T-whatever. The vt thug looked at Singler as he moved into position on D, raised his elbow and planted it about chin level. Premeditated and dangerous. G had a game suspension for his flagrant/T on hans 2 years ago. Send the films to the acc office and see IF they do anything about it. I fear open season on our players if that kind of assault is repeated and not punished in an expeditious fashion.

[CDu]

My issue is that they didn't T up Vassallo when he did the exact same thing after a dunk over Scheyer.

This is a gross overstatement of what Vassallo did. There is really no comparison between what Vassallo did (brief stare at Scheyer) and what Henderson did (demonstrative spin around and more sustained look). It also didn't help that Henderson's showboating came right in the face of the ref, while Vassallo's was facing away from the ref. Vassallo's was a borderline infraction - Henderson's was an unquestionable infraction.

[77devil]

T on G-OK give him that one for "woofing." But I want one called on Vasallo then, too, for complaining to the refs by waving his arms up and down after he was called for a foul. It was right after the call, he's looking right at a ref and complaining about the call.

Singler's elbow was called as he wrestled for ball control. Flagrant/T-whatever. The vt thug looked at Singler as he moved into position on D, raised his elbow and planted it about chin level. Premeditated and dangerous. G had a game suspension for his flagrant/T on hans 2 years ago. Send the films to the acc office and see IF they do anything about it. I fear open season on our players if that kind of assault is repeated and not punished in an expeditious fashion.

I sent the video to the ACC office this morning. Don't hold your breath.

[devildeac]

I sent the video to the ACC office this morning. Don't hold your breath.

Thank you. That's why I capitalized IF in my post. I am not holding my breath. Wonder if the coaching staff sends the video, too, looking out for the future safety of our players.

[Kewlswim]

The announcers said several times that G came out of the locker room during halftime to get some cooler air and that he was carrying 4 bottles of water. The implication was that he might have been dehydrated. The announcers seemed to be wondering if G wasn't slowed up in the second half because of this. I didn't see it reported on after the game, however.

Hi,

G has asthma. Not once did the announcers bring that up. I think that was part of what was happening. Anybody else have any insight?

GO DUKE!

[wisteria]

Hi,

G has asthma. Not once did the announcers bring that up. I think that was part of what was happening. Anybody else have any insight?

GO DUKE!

hmmm... I thought I heard that the "asthma" thing was more of "not being in game shape".

[devildeac]

hmmm... I thought I heard that the "asthma" thing was more of "not being in game shape".

G did make a statement shortly after his 1st year or before his 2nd year began that this was the case (conditioning and not asthma).

[marinbobbyduhon]

I sent the video to the ACC office this morning. Don't hold your breath.

Could someone send this video on to ESPN, also; and ask them why this blatant and potentially dangerous foul was so overlooked/under reported during the game, while they went on and on about the travel call. I would email the link, but I don't know how.

Thanks in advance!

[SMO]

This is a gross overstatement of what Vassallo did. There is really no comparison between what Vassallo did (brief stare at Scheyer) and what Henderson did (demonstrative spin around and more sustained look). It also didn't help that Henderson's showboating came right in the face of the ref, while Vassallo's was facing away from the ref. Vassallo's was a borderline infraction - Henderson's was an unquestionable infraction.

Actually, Vassallo not only gave Scheyer a stare on that dunk he waved his arms and yelled after another. So what's your answer on the second Vassallo "expression of emotion"? And how about when he argued a foul call against him? No T's for any of these? How can you say they are not even close when Henderson didn't even open his mouth??

[roywhite]

Like the proverbial lion, we are entering March with a snarl and a growl. Our coach is amped up, on the verge of throwing chairs as he challenges his players and fans. One player, Gerald Henderson, has emerged as a star, and resorts to tight spots by dunking on opponents and woofing at them. Another player, Elliot Williams, has gone from seldom used reserve to key defender and all-around spark plug, playing with plenty of "verve". A versatile backcourt man, Jon Scheyer, has morphed into an unflappable point guard. Even our older fanbase is tired of one-sided media coverage and upset when dubious calls are made, or missed.

This March may be a little different than the last few.

I like it.

[CDu]

Actually, Vassallo not only gave Scheyer a stare on that dunk he waved his arms and yelled after another. So what's your answer on the second Vassallo "expression of emotion"? And how about when he argued a foul call against him? No T's for any of these? How can you say they are not even close when Henderson didn't even open his mouth??

You are all over the place, and it doesn't appear that you understand the definition of a technical.

Henderson did not get a technical foul for an expression of emotion. He got a technical for, very clearly, taunting - which is an unsportsmanlike penalty. With regard to some other dunk where Vassallo waved his arms or yelled, that doesn't warrant a technical, because it's not directly taunting an opposing player. There's no penalty for showing emotion, just a penalty when you CLEARLY direct the show of emotion toward another player.

My comments were in regard to the post in which you suggested that Vassallo did the EXACT SAME THING as Henderson. I said that is completely incorrect. Henderson made a very obvious taunt with the staredown. He went out of his way to do it, spinning around to get in his face. It was an obvious call. Vassallo had a MUCH less obvious/blatant stare in Scheyer's direction. He landed facing Scheyer, looked at him for a split second, and ran back downcourt. If you can't understand the difference in severity, then I can't help you. Making it even more understandable is that Henderson did it facing the official, while Vassallo was facing away from the official.

I have no answer (nor do I particularly care) on the second one, because I don't remember the play. Vassallo may well have warranted a technical for his response to whatever foul you're discussing. He may or may not have warranted a technical for excessive complaining.

But it appears that the problem here is that perhaps you aren't completely understanding what typically warrants a technical and what doesn't. The fact that you've equated all of these things at least partly on the basis of the fact Henderson never opened his mouth suggests you are misunderstanding the rules here. You can show emotion without getting T'd up, and you can get a technical without mouthing off. General displays of emotion are fine. Displays of emotion clearly directed at another player (or official) are not. Henderson made a very clear show of emotion at a player. Vassallo had a much less clear show of emotion at Scheyer and a big show of emotion to no one in particular. The first may have been a borderline technical (as I said the first time) and the second is not a technical. If he was overly demonstrative toward an official, that very possibly could have been called a technical.

[bjornolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg

Even though multiple people have posted video of the elbow since Tussagee's first post but before his last, we have yet to see hear his reaction to it. So, oh revered referee, what's your reaction to it now that you've seen it?

[_Gary]

Darn it. Still haven't had anyone look back at the game tape (sorry, I didn't get a chance to record it myself) and tell me what the context was of Greenberg cheering his guys on at one point in the 2nd half. I honestly thought I remembered it coming right after, and I do mean right after, the elbow to Singler that knocked him down. Seems like the video went right to Seth where he was clapping his hands and exhorting his players to play even more physical and with even more emotion. I'd really like to know if anyone else saw what I'm talking about. I hope the shot of Seth and his cheering had to do with something other than the Singler takedown. It bears looking into, IMHO.


Gary

[CDu]

Darn it. Still haven't had anyone look back at the game tape (sorry, I didn't get a chance to record it myself) and tell me what the context was of Greenberg cheering his guys on at one point in the 2nd half. I honestly thought I remembered it coming right after, and I do mean right after, the elbow to Singler that knocked him down. Seems like the video went right to Seth where he was clapping his hands and exhorting his players to play even more physical and with even more emotion. I'd really like to know if anyone else saw what I'm talking about. I hope the shot of Seth and his cheering had to do with something other than the Singler takedown. It bears looking into, IMHO.


Gary

After the takedown, the Hokies got a rebound and took it downcourt for a 4-on-5. I'm not sure what happened after that, but I'm quite sure that he wasn't celebrating the elbow/clothesline/takedown. I'm guessing he probably didn't even fully see the action on that particular altercation.