2017 NBA Finals

[Skitzle]

Whenever a team gets this good, luck plays a big role. But I think the franchise management is looking pretty smart right now too. Things they've done well:

- Trading Monta Ellis for Bogut when Ellis was face of the franchise -- dropping a low-efficiency high-volume guy who could never pair with Curry on a contender, and getting a guy who can instill defense first into the team
- Steph + Klay + Draymond drafts obviously
- But Harrison Barnes and Festus Ezeli were really solid draft picks too that helped carry the team the last couple years
- Sign-and-trade for Iguodala so they both get an important veteran on a rising team and also dropping salary so they can keep building
- Having the courage to fire Mark Jackson even after he brought a perennial loser to the playoffs for the first time in many years. Kerr, in addition to being a good coach by conventional means, is universally loved by the players and literally calls out "having fun" regularly as one of his keys for success in games. I think this plays a big part in why the team has suddenly become so attractive for free agents (although winning of course is probably still the #1 thing).
- Refusing to trade Klay for KLove when KLove was hot stuff
- Dumping (via two separate trades) David Lee and his salary, allowing them the flexibility to sign KD and still be paying less than Cleveland
- Lots of really solid cheapo vet signings, like McGee when nobody wanted him, David West, Zaza, etc. They lost 7 players from last year's squad and yet their bench hardly suffered.
- And I'm quite happy with McCaw too. The Warriors got him as a 2nd round draft pick for $2M cash this year, and he's become a perfectly respectable defense-first bench player who's had some great playoff moments

Don't forget the key "moves" by Dwight Howard and Deandre Jordon.
Both rejected the Warriors gigantic offers to play for other teams, leaving the space to sign Kevin Durant.
Sometimes "good" Front Offices get lucky.

[DukieInBrasil]

Cavs got lucky that Draymond allowed his punkishness get the best of him last year. Also, that Steph was playing less than 100%.
As GSW is structured now, assuming no free agency losses, i don't see how the Cavs can contend withe Warriors in the future. Steph and Kyrie are roughly equal, some would argue for an advantage for Steph, some see advantages for Kyrie. Lebron and Durant are also roughly equal, although perhaps Lebron is regarded more highly. So GSW and CLE are roughly the same at their 2 biggest star positions, in terms of production. JR Smith is a huge, huge, huge dropoff from Klay. KLove is a great rebounder, and occasionally lights it up from 3, but i would still have to pick Draymond over KLove if i want to win championships. Both C are sort of afterthoughts for both teams, and i'm not really sure if either offers an advantage over the other. The bench is a big, big bonus for GSW. Livingston is much better than anyone coming off the Cavs bench, and several others provide useful minutes. I'm really at a loss to think of anyone inspiring off the Cavs bench.
So GSW, in my view, has a big advantage with 2 of the 5 starters and a big advantage off the bench. That's a lot to overcome. The Cavs have to move KLove for a more mobile PF and upgrade their bench in a major way. If JR Smith was a bench player and they made a big upgrade at starting SG, they would still need a couple more high-quality reserves to be competitive with GSW.

[Ichabod Drain]

Cavs got lucky that Draymond allowed his punkishness get the best of him last year. Also, that Steph was playing less than 100%.
.

You could also say the Warriors got lucky in 2015 when the Cavs lost both Kyrie and Love. What is the narrative if both those guys are healthy and the Cavs win in 2015 and 2016?

Obviously the Warriors are much better now but I do find it interesting people talk about the Draymond thing and Steph last year a lot but hardly bring up Love and Kyrie in 2015.

[darthur]

Obviously the Warriors are much better now but I do find it interesting people talk about the Draymond thing and Steph last year a lot but hardly bring up Love and Kyrie in 2015.

Seems to me people bring it up all the fricking time...

[CDu]

You could also say the Warriors got lucky in 2015 when the Cavs lost both Kyrie and Love. What is the narrative if both those guys are healthy and the Cavs win in 2015 and 2016?

Obviously the Warriors are much better now but I do find it interesting people talk about the Draymond thing and Steph last year a lot but hardly bring up Love and Kyrie in 2015.

I think most reasonable people can acknowledge that Cleveland was hurt by injury in 2015 and Golden State was hurt by injury and suspension in 2016.

And I think plenty of folks are bringing up Love and Irving's injuries in 2015.

[Ichabod Drain]

And I think plenty of folks are bringing up Love and Irving's injuries in 2015.

I guess we have just seen different people talking about it then. FWIW the person I brought it up in response to made no mention of it and was just discussing the"luck" of the Cavs last year.

[dukelifer]

Love for Leonard is not even close. I'm amazed when people come up with deals like this. Leonard is the 3rd best player in the league.

Well it obviously wasn't clear - that was a joke. Just thinking about what it might take.

[dukelifer]

Well, the Warriors have the greatest team of all time. C- is being nice when a coach doesn't play his best lineup enough. (And that's the scary thing for the rest of the league; GSW has another gear to go to if needed, but they just haven't needed it.)



That's only when playing against the Warriors, though. The Cavs have a very good bench against every other team in the league. Frye and Korver are scary weapons off the bench, Deron Williams is a great backup PG, RJeff is still an athletic two-way presence, and Shumpert is a good defender. It's really only the Warriors that can expose those guys defensively and then also help-and-recover to all that shooting on the other end.

I have a difficult time criticizing Cleveland's roster construction too much. Ignoring the regular season (where, with hindsight, Cleveland doesn't try), this was Lebron's best team, imo. They just aren't the greatest team of all-time, and now that Durant is with GSW, front offices have to construct the greatest team of all-time in order to win the championship.

I should have been more clear- they are not good on either end against the Warriors. They need a different group or need to get a reliable bench guy- who can handle the big moment. I thought Korver was a disappointment. I think they expected him to Shane and he did not deliver in the Finals. If he hits the shot in game 3 a lot changes.

[NM Duke Fan]

I should have been more clear- they are not good on either end against the Warriors. They need a different group or need to get a reliable bench guy- who can handle the big moment. I thought Korver was a disappointment. I think they expected him to Shane and he did not deliver in the Finals. If he hits the shot in game 3 a lot changes.

Korver did not make the hoped for impact, the bench overall is too weak Not sure what they can pull off with their current strictures. I was imagining this team with JJ and how that would have improved things on both ends compared to Korver.

[DukieInBrasil]

You could also say the Warriors got lucky in 2015 when the Cavs lost both Kyrie and Love. What is the narrative if both those guys are healthy and the Cavs win in 2015 and 2016?

Obviously the Warriors are much better now but I do find it interesting people talk about the Draymond thing and Steph last year a lot but hardly bring up Love and Kyrie in 2015.

you could say that, but there is no guarantee they would have won. There is absolutely no doubt that GSW wins last year in 6 without Draymond's suspension, and that was with healthy Kyrie and Love. I've brought up Love and Kyrie's absence and its impact on the 2015 title before, just not in that post.

[Ichabod Drain]

you could say that, but there is no guarantee they would have won. There is absolutely no doubt that GSW wins last year in 6 without Draymond's suspension,.

How do you know this? Also Green was suspended for game five when they were up 3-1 already. The warriors lost game 7 at home with a full roster, they could've lost game five as well.

[rsvman]

you could say that, but there is no guarantee they would have won. There is absolutely no doubt that GSW wins last year in 6 without Draymond's suspension, and that was with healthy Kyrie and Love. I've brought up Love and Kyrie's absence and its impact on the 2015 title before, just not in that post.

Not a no doubt situation at all.

And I still think that if the Warriors hasn't picked up Durant, the Cavs would be celebrating back to back titles right now.

[Troublemaker]

I am quite intrigued as to how the remainder of the NBA adapts to what the Warriors have moving forward.

It will be interesting to see how the league evolves to deal with this team. Maybe the Cavs can trade Love for Kawhi Leonard.

The NBA franchises themselves are powerless to do anything. To compete with GSW, it will take Lebron going behind the scenes and arranging a different super team to form in either Cleveland, San Antonio, or L.A.

The way GSW formed was Iguodala and Green recruiting Durant to come and Durant remembering how well he, Iggy, and Curry played together with USA basketball in 2010, under Coach K.

If I were Lebron, I would be on the phone with Paul George today. "Force Indiana to trade you here, and if we can't beat the Warriors next season, I will follow you to L.A. after the season." George should force Indiana's hand by saying there's no way he will re-sign with them, and so they should get what they can get. (And if the consolation prize is Kevin Love, that's a great trade for the Pacers.)

[darthur]

Korver did not make the hoped for impact, the bench overall is too weak Not sure what they can pull off with their current strictures. I was imagining this team with JJ and how that would have improved things on both ends compared to Korver.

Is JJ very different from Kyle? I see them as very comparable players.

JJ's a little younger, a little faster on defense IMO, and scores a little more. Korver's a little taller and a little more efficient.

[tbyers11]

The NBA franchises themselves are powerless to do anything. To compete with GSW, it will take Lebron going behind the scenes and arranging a different super team to form in either Cleveland, San Antonio, or L.A.

The way GSW formed was Iguodala and Green recruiting Durant to come and Durant remembering how well he, Iggy, and Curry played together with USA basketball.

So, what you're really saying is that Coach K is somehow behind the GSW super team

I guess LeBron shouldn't have skipped the 2010 World Championships, huh?

[kshepinthehouse]

The NBA franchises themselves are powerless to do anything. To compete with GSW, it will take Lebron going behind the scenes and arranging a different super team to form in either Cleveland, San Antonio, or L.A.

The way GSW formed was Iguodala and Green recruiting Durant to come and Durant remembering how well he, Iggy, and Curry played together with USA basketball in 2010, under Coach K.

If I were Lebron, I would be on the phone with Paul George today. "Force Indiana to trade you here, and if we can't beat the Warriors next season, I will follow you to L.A. after the season." George should force Indiana's hand by saying there's no way he will re-sign with them, and so they should get what they can get. (And if the consolation prize is Kevin Love, that's a great trade for the Pacers.)

Lebron already has a super team, it's just that his super team isn't nearly as talented as the Warriors, the biggest gap is on the defensive end. Warriors just have more multidimensional players.

[Steven43]

I guess we have just seen different people talking about it then. FWIW the person I brought it up in response to made no mention of it and was just discussing the"luck" of the Cavs last year.

Just because a guy offers the opinion that Golden State would have won the championship in five games last year if not for the bogus suspension of Draymond Green does not therefore follow that the same poster has an obligation to bring up the topic of how the injuries of Love and Irving contributed to Golden State's championship in 2015.

[Billy Dat]

And I still think that if the Warriors hasn't picked up Durant, the Cavs would be celebrating back to back titles right now.

It certainly seems that way, but I wonder if the Cavs were able to find that extra gear because they were facing such a formidable challenge? Game 5 was played with a really fearsome energy, guys were laying it all out there and it was really exciting to watch. It was Durant as that extra piece - suddenly two players (Durant and Curry) essentially had to be double teamed, and it exhausted the Cavs defense and, helped by the fact that they are such a good passing team, led to those many 4th quarter dunks.

Major kudos to Durant who, while he did join a Super team, was the on-court production leader of that team and clearly the difference maker. The guy was a stone cold killer.

The Cavs had their chances but ran out of gas. I can't remember how much time was left, but when they had whittled that lead to 5 or even 3, there were several times when they had make-able shots to pull even or take a lead and they missed, or took bad shots, etc.

A few other observations from the post-game, many of these show bias and are certainly opinions only:
-Owners championship podium presentations/reactions are always amazing on a awkward comedy perspective. They tend to scream into the mic, as if there is no mic present. Lacob and Guber didn't disappoint
-To me, the immediate post game should be a wide shot with no speaking to allow the viewer to see everything happening...who is hugging who? What is everyone doing...I want to see it all for myself and decide where I want to look!
-KD was off by himself in the immediate aftermath and hugged many different Cavs before he ever joined a title celebration
-KD says he said to LBJ, "We're 1-1 now"...ouch...must hurt for LBJ to know that ratio will likely tilt in the Slim Reaper's favor...but who knows?
-KD's Mom is a piece of work. I like her grabbing him by his chin and shaking his head around and generally scenery chewing. I think she thinks she the real MVP.
-Draymond showed a lot of humility during the Doris Burke trophy interview. He basically said, "I screwed up big time last year and cost us a title".
-Great Kyrie post game quote about Lebron - https://twitter.com/BenGolliver/stat...075520/photo/1
-This examination of KD's post game beer-related foibles is funny - https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-duran...071834411.html

[Ichabod Drain]

Just because a guy offers the opinion that Golden State would have won the championship in five games last year if not for the bogus suspension of Draymond Green does not therefore follow that the same poster has an obligation to bring up the topic of how the injuries of Love and Irving contributed to Golden State's championship in 2015.

I never said anyone was obliged to bring it up. I just found it interesting. The whole post was comparing the two teams and I felt 2015 has it's place in that discussion as well so I brought it up.

[superdave]

the bogus suspension of Draymond Green

LOL
:
His suspension was a lifetime achievement award for being dirty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjeAMfW3RS0

If I were his teammate, I'd make him pay me a championship bonus from last year, because that's what his dumb rear-end cost me.