Small-ball and a short bench

[Jumbo]

Ah, two of the favorite recurring topics on DBR. I just thought it was worth noting that last night, the Phoenix Suns played a six-man rotation over 48 minutes. For significant stretches of the game, they played Shawn Marion, a 6'7" SF-turned-PF at center, James Jones, a swingman, at the 4, and three guards. And this was in the NBA, where everyone is big, where veterans like Jalen Rose are locked to the bench, and the opponent has Tim Duncan in the middle, and plenty of size and depth in other spots.
Now, Phoenix ended up losing, and did seem to wear down physically. (Well, I think as much of anything, Phoenix ran out of options). But, to take a team a strong as the Spurs down to the wire playing six men of 48 minutes while using a small lineup should show you something: A lot of our preconceptions about basketball are wrong.
Duke might not have a Steve Nash running the point or someone as freakishly athletic to play a hybrid forward spot like Shawn Marion. But, then again, Duke's not facing many Tim Duncans either. The point is, there are many ways to skin a cat in basketball. And if Duke's lacking a bit of size next year, beyond Zoubek and maybe Thomas, that's not such a big deal.
Might Duke have trouble guarding an occasional post player one-on-one? Sure. Might Duke lack a back-to-the-basket scorer at times? Perhaps. But on the other hand, how much do you think teams would enjoy trying to match up defensively against a lineup that featured, say, Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler, at times next year?
K's got plenty of talent to work with next year. He's got enough athletes to keep Duke competitive on the boards. He's got enough midsized players like Thomas, McClure and Singler, to battle against post players. As long as Duke develops more cohesiveness on the defensive end than last year, no one's going to overpower the team at the end. And then it's up to K to make the most out of a team with some potentially scary offensive weapons, and force teams to match up to Duke, rather than the other way around.
The bottom line is there are only a handful of games where Duke's going to go against some sort of an awesome post presence. And as long as Duke counters that with other strengths, it shouldn't matter.

[mgtr]

I agree 100%. Coach K did not get this far by giving up. Zoubek has a lot of potential, and others can run in and out of the post without a problem. We also have a lot of firepower from 10 feet out, which will cause other teams problems matching up with us. Most teams forget about the 10-15 foot jump shot, but I see us having that as a major weapon.
Well, time will tell, but you can count me as one of the most optimistic posters on this board. I see much improved results over this past year.

[Bob Green]

As usual, I agree with Jumbo. I am not concerned about our lack of a true big man. Zoubek will show improvement this year and contribute valuable minutes, but I believe he will not be ready to be a starter until his Junior season. Paulus should be healthy and solid, though not spectacular, at the point. We are stocked with talent at the 2, 3, & 4. I understand we do not have assigned positions. Next year's team will be solid. I expect Nolan Smith to solve our inability to stop dribble penetration and for Kyle Singler to make us forget McRoberts. Lance Thomas needs to play more minutes so he will have to resolve his foul problem issue. Nelson, Scheyer, Henderson, McClure, & Pocius are very talented players. Taylor King can create matchup problems by playing inside on defense and outside on offense. Therefore, I do believe Coach K will play a deep bench. I'm looking for 8 or 9 players to play double digit minutes like the teams of 87-91. Coach K will have the talent available to place a big team on the court, a speed team on the court, or a combo of skills on the court.

Is it Novemeber yet?

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[throatybeard]

I think we should play more zone.

[Buckeye Devil]

I think that Jumbo is basically saying that basketball is frequently about match-ups and which team uses them best to its advantage. Duke will indeed present some match-up problems next year and who am I to question Coach K on taking advantage of those match-up issues? He will capitalize on them without a doubt as this team meshes and progresses. I would still feel a little better if they had another 6'10" player in the mix to back up Zoubek and in case of foul trouble, but I am optimistic for next year and beyond.

The only thing that I have to say about the Spurs/Suns is that it was only one game. Could the same result be produced long term?

[Forrest]

The bottom line is there are only a handful of games where Duke's going to go against some sort of an awesome post presence. And as long as Duke counters that with other strengths, it shouldn't matter.

Unfortunately, at least two of those games will be against the Tar Heels and Tyler Hansborough, who punishes smaller, less physical players. So while Duke may do well in lots of games where the matchups break Duke's way, or at least not the other team's way, I think there are a couple of games that *do* matter in which the Blue Devils will really struggle.

Boy, I hope I'm wrong.

Forrest

[phaedrus]

The only thing that I have to say about the Spurs/Suns is that it was only one game. Could the same result be produced long term?

well, the suns won 60+ games this year and about 54 last year even without amare stoudemire.

[cspan37421]

Do you ever feel like recruiting sometimes goes the way of the draft, where you get the best players you can get regardless of what you need? Problem is you can't trade when you have a surplus of shooting guards/SFs and a dearth of big men.

[ACCBBallFan]

Agree with everything you are saying Jumbo but would add Taylor King as a guy who can bury the 3 and provide 5 fouls guarding the 5, rather than rotting on the bench.

Taylor is as big and strong as Lance or Kyle and I would suspect not as good an open floor defender.

Duke does not use numbers but King would be a 2-5 a second SG on Offense in the style offense of W VA Pittsnogggle without the tatoos and defend the center since he is less a defensive liability there than defending his fellow SG, SF or even PF.

Duke needs to work on how Zoubek and Lance hedge anyway so just add Taylor King into the instruction.

[kydevil]

Playing Zone a lot next year would be nice.... we can all dream eh?

[mepanchin]

I'm not sure zone would be a good idea. We are already facing the possibility of having a bad DOR%, but if we play a lot of zone, that number will likely be very high. Maybe we'd stop some shots we wouldn't have playing man, but we'd give up many more offensive rebounds which could turn very easily into quick buckets.

I liked what the Suns did to the Spurs the other day without Amare. Whenever Duncan got the ball, they doubled and forced them to hit jumpshots. Whenever we face a team that actually has a really powerful big, we can take advantage of that kind of strategy using man defense and still be decent on the defensive glass. I'd much rather smother and bother Ellington, lay off Lawson and double on Hansbrough and force Lawson to hit outside shots or force Green/Thompson to beat us. It's a reasonable strategy.

Zone is not the only answer.

That being said... throwing a zone in every so often has its advantages just to throw offenses out of rhythm, force them to adjust, then switch again back to man. We won't be an underdog in most of our games, but in the games where we are, we need to prudently use risky strategies to our advantage to overcome deficiencies on paper.

[Jumbo]

Unfortunately, at least two of those games will be against the Tar Heels and Tyler Hansborough, who punishes smaller, less physical players. So while Duke may do well in lots of games where the matchups break Duke's way, or at least not the other team's way, I think there are a couple of games that *do* matter in which the Blue Devils will really struggle.

Boy, I hope I'm wrong.

Forrest

A) There are plenty of ways to defend a low-post scorer without having someone who matches up well with him one-on-one.
B) Hansbrough is only 6'8" -- McClure did a good job on him in spurts this year.
C) Defense is a team concept, not a series of one-on-one battles. Duke collapsed in this area down the stretch and must make great strides before next season.
D) I hate to be trite, but sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

[throatybeard]

I was joking about zone.

[JBDuke]

I'm not sure zone would be a good idea. We are already facing the possibility of having a bad DOR%, but if we play a lot of zone, that number will likely be very high. Maybe we'd stop some shots we wouldn't have playing man, but we'd give up many more offensive rebounds which could turn very easily into quick buckets.

I liked what the Suns did to the Spurs the other day without Amare. Whenever Duncan got the ball, they doubled and forced them to hit jumpshots. Whenever we face a team that actually has a really powerful big, we can take advantage of that kind of strategy using man defense and still be decent on the defensive glass. I'd much rather smother and bother Ellington, lay off Lawson and double on Hansbrough and force Lawson to hit outside shots or force Green/Thompson to beat us. It's a reasonable strategy.

Zone is not the only answer.

That being said... throwing a zone in every so often has its advantages just to throw offenses out of rhythm, force them to adjust, then switch again back to man. We won't be an underdog in most of our games, but in the games where we are, we need to prudently use risky strategies to our advantage to overcome deficiencies on paper.

When K goes to the all-switching man D, it's a lot like a zone, anyway. Having lots of good athletes on the team that can guard a variety of types of opponents makes that defense possible, and we used it to our advantage some last year. Don't be surprised to see it plenty more in 2007-2008.

[JBDuke]

I was joking about zone.

You trouble maker, you!

[mepanchin]

I was joking about zone.

Someone else suggested it too!

[mgtr]

Maybe it was Watzone.

[Indoor66]

Ah, a devoté 'till the end - with tongue firmly entrenched in cheek?

[kydevil]

Do you think that if Lance Thomas has bulked up enough that he could guard Big men in the post efficiently?

[CMS2478]

I was joking about zone.

I don't want to hear that out of your mouth again young man. Zone is no joking matter, it causes lots of arguments around here.