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  1. #741
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFinARL View Post
    This makes sense--if the main thing he needs to know at this point is not how the NBA teams see him but who else is coming out, there's no reason to try to wrap everything up April 29--he can just preserve his NCAA eligibility until the last possible moment, when he'll have a clearer idea how many big guys will be ahead of him.
    Exactly. There's absolutely no reason for him to decide now. He has the luxury to wait and see what plays out with other early entries and get a feel for just how many guys are ahead of him.

  2. #742
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    I think the questions that Mason needs answers to are

    1.) Will he fall out of the first round? There's a huge difference between being the last pick in the first round (with a guaranteed contract) and the first pick in the second round.

    2.) Is there a particular team that really likes him? We don't know the draft order yet, but if there's one team that happens to absolutely love him and plans on taking him, then that might give him enough reason to go.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I fully expect Mason to continue to wait and see who goes. As the days tick away, more and more big men are going to enter, and that will likely mean more and more big men are going to be ahead of him in the draft process.
    But not all - surely he's better than some who will enter the draft early? And if he threw his name in, could he not push some others down?

  4. #744
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    But not all - surely he's better than some who will enter the draft early? And if he threw his name in, could he not push some others down?
    Sure. But he's not going to bump guys like Robinson, Sullinger, Davis, either Zeller, Henson, McAdoo, Perry Jones, Terrance Jones, Drummond, or Leonard. He's potentially competing with guys like Green, Moultrie, Nicholson, Melo, and Leslie. And there will be at least a few foreign players that eat up draft spots. When you're expected to be anywhere from the 10th to 12th American PF/C to come off the board, your prospects of being a 1st round pick are borderline. And being a 1st rounder matters a great deal - 2nd round picks aren't guaranteed a contract whereas 1st rounders are.

  5. #745
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Why dont the NBA and NCAA get together and host a one-day workout for guys on the fence during the period between when they declare and when they have to withdraw? How is the NCAA so stupid as to keep this a guessing game for kids?

    I'm sure the NBA would pay for a one-day workout this Saturday, and would only invite the players who are borderline first-rounders but on the fence about declaring. In the morning guys could get measured and prodded, in the afternoon they could play against each other. The the scouts could sit down and give kids some feedback.

    Otherwise there is absolutely no purpose for having kids declare then withdraw, other than phone conversations with scouts. It's silly.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    How is the NCAA so stupid
    We haven't the time, bandwidth, storage capacity or brainpower to answer this question during our lifetimes.

  7. #747
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Could not disagree more. Quinn Cook was the only Duke guard with more than rudimentary passing skills and his knee problems precluded his getting major PT. Seth Curry and Tyler Thornton brought many positives to the Duke basketball team but neither passed at a high level. Both are under-sized shooting guards. Austin Rivers only mastered the first half of drive-and-dish and Andre Dawkins never mastered either.

    I can state with absolute certainty that the Duke coaches were frustrated with the team's inability to pass better.
    And with good reason. Statistically, this was the worst passing Duke team in the Coach K era.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  8. #748
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Jim, I'm sure they were frustrated. But with all due respect, a simple entry bounce pass is not that hard to teach. Mason can seal his man almost every time with his quickness and strength and the entry bounce pass would be open, and if not, it would only be because of a double team which would have made Duke an even more dangerous shooting team.

    Rotate the ball on the wing, set some baseline screens and LOOK for the bounce pass to Mason on the low block. This team just never committed to it. They settled for jump shots and dribble drives.
    With all due respect, a simple entry bounce pass is not the issue. You must combine the ability to make a simple entry bounce pass with the timing and court awareness to deliver that pass at the right time for the big man to do something with it. Unless you have an incredibly strong-bodied post player (like Sullinger, Green, Robinson, Johnson, and maybe a handful of others), your post guy is only going to be able to seal ideal position for so long. If your perimeter players don't see it in time, the moment is gone.

    The alternative is to have a post player who is capable of scoring from less than ideal post position. Again, guys like Green, Sullinger, Robinson, and Johnson fit the bill (because they can back guys down), but now you add guys like the Zellers into the mix (because they have good shooting touch and clever moves to allow them to get closer to the hoop). Mason and Miles are very athletic, but they weren't consistently able to score when they got the ball further from the basket.

    So the problems were multiple: (1) guards who weren't great passers; (2) guards who weren't looking to pass first, or even second; (3) post players who weren't great at holding deep post position for a long time; and (4) post players who weren't great scorers away from the basket (note - I'm not including Kelly as a post player in this discussion, because he spent the vast majority of his time floating around the perimeter; obviously he has the ability to score away from the basket).

    It was most certainly not as simple as teaching an entry bounce pass. If it was, the problem would have been resolved, because Coach K was very adamant early in the year about getting the bigs more involved this year. And that's why they were so frustrated. We had only one guard who really saw the floor well, and he was too limited defensively this year to play major minutes. Dawkins was probably our most consistently effective entry passer among the guards. And that's only because he looked to do it, not because he was any great shakes at it. Curry and Rivers just had too much tunnel vision looking to shoot or drive first rather than pass inside. And Thornton was just such a limited offensive player that teams didn't have to challenge him defensively and could protect the paint whenever he had the ball.

  9. #749

    NBA Early Entry List

    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I think the questions that Mason needs answers to are

    1.) Will he fall out of the first round? There's a huge difference between being the last pick in the first round (with a guaranteed contract) and the first pick in the second round.

    2.) Is there a particular team that really likes him? We don't know the draft order yet, but if there's one team that happens to absolutely love him and plans on taking him, then that might give him enough reason to go.
    Currently Mason is listed as having a 50/50 liklihood of entering . He is listed as a late first round or early 2nd round pick. While there is no pressure on Mason to enter, it would be good to have the decision made prior to the recruiting signing date of April 11th. It might impact someone considering Duke one way or another. I am sure the coaches have some idea of the liklihood, but I doubt then would extend an offer without knowing this key information.

    Austin is listed as a lottery pick.

  10. #750

    It would not be such a big problem if...

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    And with good reason. Statistically, this was the worst passing Duke team in the Coach K era.
    Duke had players who could break defenses down off the dribble, but in this case we didn't have many good passers and only one real slasher in Austin. As a result, we rarely saw anyone drop a dime or kick the ball out for an open three, which is shame since we had excellent three point shooters (at least until March). I remember one game late in the season where Austin drove the lane and passed to Ryan for an open three, and I had to ask myself where that play had been all year.

    Goduke.com apparently expects Mason back. I hope they're right.

    Looking Ahead

    While things were uncertain for Duke heading into this season, the Blue Devils will have a much more established roster coming into 2012-13. With the only losses expected to be Miles Plumlee and Rivers, Duke will return 10 players including four of the top five scorers from this season.

    http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...DB_OEM_ID=4200

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    Goduke.com apparently expects Mason back. I hope they're right.

    http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...DB_OEM_ID=4200
    Yes, that tiny little "Looking Ahead" paragraph could be [1] almost-news, [2] wonderful news, or [3] a throwaway line and merely a 50-50 guess.

    Perhaps the Goduke folks do not fully appreciate how, here on EK, we parse every syllable from every halfway reputable source for its import on our near-future happiness.

    If Mason leaves, I say we sue Goduke for causing mental pain and suffering.

  12. #752
    If u go to NBAdraft.net... you we see the there forum topics on the left side click the one that says 'insider please' has some info on mason

  13. #753
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    With all due respect, a simple entry bounce pass is not the issue. You must combine the ability to make a simple entry bounce pass with the timing and court awareness to deliver that pass at the right time for the big man to do something with it. Unless you have an incredibly strong-bodied post player (like Sullinger, Green, Robinson, Johnson, and maybe a handful of others), your post guy is only going to be able to seal ideal position for so long. If your perimeter players don't see it in time, the moment is gone....
    .
    Mason has the strength of players like Sullinger, Robinson, etc...he can seal his position in the post. And you are right, the bounce pass has to be delivered in a timely manner. But, it's not that hard to get a player the ball inside, if you work on it. What does become difficult is what they do with it after the catch. At minimum getting it inside forces defenses to stay honest, which is what ultimately doomed Duke when the inside play was basically ignored and the defense stayed up on the shooters.

    No balance. (UNC suffered the same fate, (no balance), except they lacked shooting in their case).

    My comment regarding Duke's lack of commitment was relevant because if Duke practiced feeding the post, really wanted to go inside, they had plenty of talent to do so, and be successful, or at least good enough at it to keep teams honest.

    They didn't do it often enough is all i'm saying. I saw mostly high screens and pick and rolls all season from the bigs, not much of a low post commitment.

  14. #754
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Carolina Beach

    well

    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Yes, that tiny little "Looking Ahead" paragraph could be [1] almost-news, [2] wonderful news, or [3] a throwaway line and merely a 50-50 guess.

    Perhaps the Goduke folks do not fully appreciate how, here on EK, we parse every syllable from every halfway reputable source for its import on our near-future happiness.

    If Mason leaves, I say we sue Goduke for causing mental pain and suffering.
    Well I was going to say I expect Mason back but now on advice of attorneys i will refrain and just state the obvious.
    1- Late first round can too easily fall to second round..
    2- Play with your little brother in games.
    3- Man it is DUKE we are talking about.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by THE FUTURE View Post
    If u go to NBAdraft.net... you we see the there forum topics on the left side click the one that says 'insider please' has some info on mason
    somebody set us up the bomb

  16. #756
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    They didn't do it often enough is all i'm saying. I saw mostly high screens and pick and rolls all season from the bigs, not much of a low post commitment.
    You should know that most of us here are salivating at the prospect of McAdoo leaving and UNC spending all of next season jacking up threes while Mason pounds it inside on your freshmen bigs

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Mason has the strength of players like Sullinger, Robinson, etc...

    No balance. (UNC suffered the same fate, (no balance), except they lacked shooting in their case).

    My comment regarding Duke's lack of commitment was relevant because if Duke practiced feeding the post, really wanted to go inside, they had plenty of talent to do so, and be successful, or at least good enough at it to keep teams honest.

    They didn't do it often enough is all i'm saying. I saw mostly high screens and pick and rolls all season from the bigs, not much of a low post commitment.
    While I generally appreciate Wheat's comments, he's taken on an unnatural obssession with Duke's post offense. I got the point the 500th time back in November.

    I thinks he overstates his case. Looking at the numbers, the Duke offense was pretty balanced. No one averaged more than 15.5, and Rivers score a lot on drives to the paint. Mason averaged 11.1, and I don't know that he hit a jump shot all year, so his scoring was almost entirely in the post, including a lot of post moves. Kelly averaged 11.8 and while he's primarily a face-up big, he did show improvement with post moves. Miles averaged 6.6 off the bench and may have hit fewer than 10 jump shots all year. We had some high percentage 3 point shooters in Curry, Dawkins, and Kelly, so we were going to use them. I do think Rivers shifted his balance too much to the 3 late in the year. Our main non-scorer who saw lots of time was a guard, not a big man. Mason did hit a slump in February but came back and averaged 13.6 over his last 5 games. Taking out the FSU game when he was in foul trouble throughout, that average goes up to 15. If anything, lack of balance in our loss to Lehigh fell on the guards, not the bigs.

    If you want to say our front court wasn't as strong as UNC's, well, of course. UNC and Kentucky had far and away the most talented front courts in the country. You could also say we should have gone to the Plumlees still more. But, it is inaccurate to contend that we had no post scoring. Mason has improved steadily each year and 11 and 9 are not bad numbers. If he comes back next year, he could be an All-ACC 1st team big man.

    Also, I wish Mason had the strength of Sullinger or Robinson! Talk about an overstatement!

  18. #758
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    While I generally appreciate Wheat's comments, he's taken on an unnatural obssession with Duke's post offense. I got the point the 500th time back in November.

    I thinks he overstates his case. Looking at the numbers, the Duke offense was pretty balanced. No one averaged more than 15.5, and Rivers score a lot on drives to the paint. Mason averaged 11.1, and I don't know that he hit a jump shot all year, so his scoring was almost entirely in the post, including a lot of post moves. Kelly averaged 11.8 and while he's primarily a face-up big, he did show improvement with post moves. Miles averaged 6.6 off the bench and may have hit fewer than 10 jump shots all year. We had some high percentage 3 point shooters in Curry, Dawkins, and Kelly, so we were going to use them. I do think Rivers shifted his balance too much to the 3 late in the year. Our main non-scorer who saw lots of time was a guard, not a big man. Mason did hit a slump in February but came back and averaged 13.6 over his last 5 games. Taking out the FSU game when he was in foul trouble throughout, that average goes up to 15. If anything, lack of balance in our loss to Lehigh fell on the guards, not the bigs.

    If you want to say our front court wasn't as strong as UNC's, well, of course. UNC and Kentucky had far and away the most talented front courts in the country. You could also say we should have gone to the Plumlees still more. But, it is inaccurate to contend that we had no post scoring. Mason has improved steadily each year and 11 and 9 are not bad numbers. If he comes back next year, he could be an All-ACC 1st team big man.

    Also, I wish Mason had the strength of Sullinger or Robinson! Talk about an overstatement!
    Every Carolina fan I know overstates how good the Plumlees are.

    I think they're good, too, but listening to the UNC fans, you'd think that the Plumlees should have overtaken Hansbrough's numbers by now.

    Meanwhile, they simply ignored how good Zeller was for them. Makes no sense.

  19. #759
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Wheat's obsession is with traditional low-post scoring moves. They must be initiated by an entry pass to a big who has his man sealed off, then the big must make a post move and score. An alley-oop dunk or fast break layup does not count. If a team doesn't have a guy that does this 10-15 times per game, they cannot win the National Championship (which is kind of interesting since Kentucky didn't really have that this year either).

    The way that Duke generates scoring inside is just different from UNC's. Whether we should try to use Mason more like a traditional big is up for debate I suppose. As for comparisons to Sullinger and Robinson, I don't know if Mason can bench press as much as those guys but he did play them head to head really well, back in November when the whole team had things clicking (which feels like a lifetime ago).

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Wheat's obsession is with traditional low-post scoring moves. They must be initiated by an entry pass to a big who has his man sealed off, then the big must make a post move and score. An alley-oop dunk or fast break layup does not count. If a team doesn't have a guy that does this 10-15 times per game, they cannot win the National Championship (which is kind of interesting since Kentucky didn't really have that this year either).

    The way that Duke generates scoring inside is just different from UNC's. Whether we should try to use Mason more like a traditional big is up for debate I suppose. As for comparisons to Sullinger and Robinson, I don't know if Mason can bench press as much as those guys but he did play them head to head really well, back in November when the whole team had things clicking (which feels like a lifetime ago).
    Mason did not just score on alley-oop dunks and fast break layups this year. He scored on hooks with both hands, some power moves, a few drop steps, and some drives starting within about 6 feet of the basket. That was the majority of his game this year. He didn't come to Duke with those moves and wasn't a big scorer in high school, but he definitely improved over the off-season. I think we got away from that part of our offense for much of February, but came back to it late. Unfortunately, our guards stopped playing well. Mason isn't weak and did play well against Sullinger and Robinson, but those guys are really, really physically strong.

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