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  1. #1

    Bigs. Please. Bigs.

    For the first time in near memory, it looks like the Devils could outsize some ACC opponents this year. However, IMO, they still don't have a dominant offensive OR defensive figure in the post, and I'd say that for 4-5 years that's been the case. Granted, the true big-man has largely disappeared from the game, but there are always a few in each recruiting class, and, unfortunately, it just looks like Duke hasn't been able to wrap them up.

    As a guy who hasn't been tremendously religious about following Duke's recruiting efforts, I have two questions for y'all out there:

    1) Does Duke have any significant, game-changing, back-to-the-basket bigs on the way in the next few years?

    2) Can Duke succeed without a great post player? Am I totally off-base in thinking that the more successful teams that I've seen over the past 20 years have had a significant post presence?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by smklin View Post
    2) Can Duke succeed without a great post player? Am I totally off-base in thinking that the more successful teams that I've seen over the past 20 years have had a significant post presence?
    Yes, you're totally off-base.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    I would rather have 2 -3 -4 post players who can come at the basket in waves, than one Hibbler, who was, after all, a one-trick pony (he could block shots very well). This year we have a bunch of bigs (and in some games that means a lot of fouls to give), all of whom play different games, and, very likely, all of whom can contribute.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Texas/NC
    Door #2

  5. #5
    i agree that having those dynamic players at the 2-3-4 positions is also important, but when i think about duke squads that have had success in the past 10-15 years, they invariably have good big men. what i would give for a boozer or a brand in the post!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by smklin View Post
    i agree that having those dynamic players at the 2-3-4 positions is also important, but when i think about duke squads that have had success in the past 10-15 years, they invariably have good big men. what i would give for a boozer or a brand in the post!
    Laettner wasn't exactly a dominant post presence. In fact, when he went head to head against a true post presence (Shaq) he dominated the matchup by taking the Big Cactus (or whatever he calls himself now) outside over and over again.

  7. #7
    Quincy Miller wouldn't hurt.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by mgtr View Post
    I would rather have 2 -3 -4 post players who can come at the basket in waves, than one Hibbler, who was, after all, a one-trick pony (he could block shots very well). This year we have a bunch of bigs (and in some games that means a lot of fouls to give), all of whom play different games, and, very likely, all of whom can contribute.
    Roy Hibbett you mean? The one in the NBA?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Roy Hibbett you mean? The one in the NBA?
    I saw Hibler, I mean Hiblett, I mean Hibbert play in Winston in the tourney one year and all I remember about him was some guys sitting behind us calling him garbage.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Smile Christian v. Shaq

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Laettner wasn't exactly a dominant post presence. In fact, when he went head to head against a true post presence (Shaq) he dominated the matchup by taking the Big Cactus (or whatever he calls himself now) outside over and over again.
    I can't remember the 1992 game at LSU but in 1991 at CID, Shaq was so befuddled on D against Christian's inside moves that Dale Brown pulled him out of the game well before the end. Shaq played 28 mins. and had 15 pts, 10 RBs, and 4 fouls vs. Christian's 24 pts., 11 RBs and 3 fouls.

    sagegrouse

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Raleigh, NC
    Shaq actually outplayed Laettner in the '92 rematch in Baton Rogue. For 30 minutes. But Laettner dominated down the stretch and Duke won.

    Back to the OP. Who wouldn't like another Elton Brand? Seen any lately? In college?

    But Duke has a 6'11" freshman who many think will be an NBA lottery pick in 2 or 3 years. Not saying Plumlee is going to be as good as Laettner or Ferry or Parks but he's about the same size, has an advanced skill set, well above average athleticism, and his intangibles are off the charts.

    So maybe Duke has its dominant post.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Charlottesville, Va
    It's not size. It's speed and strength. Just ask Charles Barkley or Dennis Rodman. Some smaller teams have given Duke fits in recent NCAA's because they were quicker to the ball. What good is a slow, weak seven footer that can't hold his position, or get to the basket without being blocked?

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Los Alamos, New Mexico
    We have five intriguing big men this year, but I don't know if I would necessarily call anyone of them dominant. Lance doesn't have the size to be a true dominant force down low, but his athleticism and key minutes over the last couple of years lead me to think there is no way he isn't a significant part of the rotation for his senior year. Zoubek is not a force, but he should provide experience and (hopefully) be another healthy big man down low. Of course, the word about MP I's improvement via Scheyer is encouraging, but I don't know how big of a leap we can realistically expect, but I am really excited to see what he can contribute. MP II sounds like a beast, but until I see him in action, I am a little hesitant to think he can cure all of our ills right off the bat. And, from what I've heard, Kelly is more of a cross between (If this makes any sense, maybe I am way off the mark) a cross between Kyle Singler and a young Dirk Nowitzki, not a true post player, but a tall, athletic guy who can trouble defenders with their range and shoot the lights out. (Kelly did win the 3-Point shootout at the AA game, if that means anything.) Hopefully, as someone said in another thread, this rotation will give us what we need and the whole front line is greater than the sum of its parts. Since I haven't been able to pay too much attention to Duke basketball in the last couple months, this may be way out of line.

  14. #14
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    Winston Salem, NC

    You pretty well nailed it!

    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilburn View Post
    We have five intriguing big men this year, but I don't know if I would necessarily call anyone of them dominant. Lance doesn't have the size to be a true dominant force down low, but his athleticism and key minutes over the last couple of years lead me to think there is no way he isn't a significant part of the rotation for his senior year. Zoubek is not a force, but he should provide experience and (hopefully) be another healthy big man down low. Of course, the word about MP I's improvement via Scheyer is encouraging, but I don't know how big of a leap we can realistically expect, but I am really excited to see what he can contribute. MP II sounds like a beast, but until I see him in action, I am a little hesitant to think he can cure all of our ills right off the bat. And, from what I've heard, Kelly is more of a cross between (If this makes any sense, maybe I am way off the mark) a cross between Kyle Singler and a young Dirk Nowitzki, not a true post player, but a tall, athletic guy who can trouble defenders with their range and shoot the lights out. (Kelly did win the 3-Point shootout at the AA game, if that means anything.) Hopefully, as someone said in another thread, this rotation will give us what we need and the whole front line is greater than the sum of its parts. Since I haven't been able to pay too much attention to Duke basketball in the last couple months, this may be way out of line.
    Gotta agree on almost all your points. MP1 actually showed some pretty athletic skills last year. However it looked like he was thinking too much and not reacting and just playing. This year could very well be different. Last year was the first year that Zoubs was healthy and at times he looked pretty good. Let's hope another summer of working hard and another injury free year proves to be the coming out party for Big Z. Lance has the quickness and the skills to play D, but I have not seen the same on offense. Let's hope he has a good senior year. Kelly was said to have very good skill sets and can be a good shooter from the perimeter. And now for Mason, I look for Mason to have an outstanding freshman year. I don't expect him to avg 20ppg and 10 rpg. I do expect him to play better than the usual highly recruited freshman player. Maybe 12pts and 7 rpg. That is what we need from one of our interior guys. Like you said, the sum of the parts is what will help us down low. Go Duke!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    By the way, does anyone know if Kelly is capable of releving Kyle at the 3 position? I know the man didn't sit a minute in the ACC tournament, but he can't do that all year and I think our guard depth is too shallow to put either Scheyer or Dawkins at SF for an extended period of time, like Duke has been able to do in the past.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilburn View Post
    By the way, does anyone know if Kelly is capable of releving Kyle at the 3 position? I know the man didn't sit a minute in the ACC tournament, but he can't do that all year and I think our guard depth is too shallow to put either Scheyer or Dawkins at SF for an extended period of time, like Duke has been able to do in the past.
    I think he can. Offensively at least. I think that will be where Kelly gets most of his minutes off the bench...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by gwwilburn View Post
    We have five intriguing big men this year, but I don't know if I would necessarily call anyone of them dominant. Lance doesn't have the size to be a true dominant force down low, but his athleticism and key minutes over the last couple of years lead me to think there is no way he isn't a significant part of the rotation for his senior year. Zoubek is not a force, but he should provide experience and (hopefully) be another healthy big man down low. Of course, the word about MP I's improvement via Scheyer is encouraging, but I don't know how big of a leap we can realistically expect, but I am really excited to see what he can contribute. MP II sounds like a beast, but until I see him in action, I am a little hesitant to think he can cure all of our ills right off the bat. And, from what I've heard, Kelly is more of a cross between (If this makes any sense, maybe I am way off the mark) a cross between Kyle Singler and a young Dirk Nowitzki, not a true post player, but a tall, athletic guy who can trouble defenders with their range and shoot the lights out. (Kelly did win the 3-Point shootout at the AA game, if that means anything.) Hopefully, as someone said in another thread, this rotation will give us what we need and the whole front line is greater than the sum of its parts. Since I haven't been able to pay too much attention to Duke basketball in the last couple months, this may be way out of line.
    Sounds pretty spot on to me. I think MP2 is our Center of the future, we may just have to wait a year for him to put on some muscle and have that one year of experience and frosh-soph leap in improvement. I think he'll be good this year, but next year WATCH OUT.

  18. #18

    dissent

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Sounds pretty spot on to me. I think MP2 is our Center of the future, we may just have to wait a year for him to put on some muscle and have that one year of experience and frosh-soph leap in improvement. I think he'll be good this year, but next year WATCH OUT.
    A mild dissent here. I'm guessing that for '10-'11 & '11-'12, MP1 is, in effect, the 5, and MP2 the 4. Subject to new recruits, of course, but even in absence of someone better, I'd guess that the MPs will be our 28-30 mpg [each] bigs; and because of his much better handle, that MP2 plays more facing basket than his brother. But I could easily see them switching between these 2 spots on both O and D; and further, see them as very, very effective with each other in these flexible roles.

    Neither of them is Brand or Boozer, but they're gonna develop some effective mobility, passing skills, shot-blocking [esp from weak side], so the inside looks pretty darned good for near-future.

  19. #19
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    May 2009
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    NCAA=Guards Game

    Quote Originally Posted by smklin View Post
    For the first time in near memory, it looks like the Devils could outsize some ACC opponents this year. However, IMO, they still don't have a dominant offensive OR defensive figure in the post, and I'd say that for 4-5 years that's been the case. Granted, the true big-man has largely disappeared from the game, but there are always a few in each recruiting class, and, unfortunately, it just looks like Duke hasn't been able to wrap them up.

    As a guy who hasn't been tremendously religious about following Duke's recruiting efforts, I have two questions for y'all out there:

    1) Does Duke have any significant, game-changing, back-to-the-basket bigs on the way in the next few years?

    2) Can Duke succeed without a great post player? Am I totally off-base in thinking that the more successful teams that I've seen over the past 20 years have had a significant post presence?
    You are beyond off base. Even some of the best post players we have had were not back to the basket guys (Ferry, Laettner, Battier, etc). The NBA is a bangers league. The NCAA is primarily a guard's game. Having a back to the basket banger is not essential in doing well in the NCAA but having solid guards is essential.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Azdukefan View Post
    You are beyond off base. Even some of the best post players we have had were not back to the basket guys (Ferry, Laettner, Battier, etc). The NBA is a bangers league. The NCAA is primarily a guard's game. Having a back to the basket banger is not essential in doing well in the NCAA but having solid guards is essential.
    You really need to have some kind of offensive presence down low though to compete for a championship. Haven't felt that Duke has had any kind of consistent offense under the basket since Shelden left. Hopefully it will come this year. The post game is still important. You can't count on the outside shot dropping for six games in a row in March and April.

    UNC - Hansborough
    KU - Arthur and another guy who I am forgetting
    UF - Horford, Noah
    UNC - May
    UConn - like their whole fricking team
    Syracuse -- perhaps the exception, can't remember, but they had a generational player
    Maryland - Baxter and (ed) Wilcox
    Duke - Boozer

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